Future Proof Single Radiator

[kinghong1970]

been out of the watercooling loop for a while... just saw how large the radiators are getting...
how futureproof is one of the larger radiators?

not quite the BI GTX 560 with high rpm fans... but rather, the SR1-560...

will a single large radiator meet the cooling needs of a modern day cpu and a couple of gpu's?

will a low rpm 120x4 sized radiator suffice in cooling a cpu + 2 gpu?

thanks in advance for your replies.

[defect9]

depends on fan speed and total heat dump (and a bunch of other things). if your 2 gpus are 560Ti (or equivalent heat), and you're not overclocking anything, I would be about ready to say definitely.

if not... you might not want to run low rpm during load. It's all about where you're comfortable with temps. If you hate seeing numbers above 50c at load, probably not (again, depends on OC, room temp, GPU/CPUs, etc).

thankfully even if 1 turns out to not be enough, you can always add another.:D

[kinghong1970]

thanks for reply defect9...

trying to get back into the hobby and yet, seems so much has gone by...

anywhere we can find info as to the amount of heat produced by more recent hardwares?

again, trying to understand how much i can cool with a SR1-560... w/o overclocking...

so, in summary, can a SR1-560 cool something like the following:
i7 3820
x79 board
2x GTX580

[defect9]

You're looking for this. (http://www.thermaltake.outervision.com/Power) only add in the things that are getting watercooled and you get a rather close approximation. even has options for OC'ing your cpu (no OC options on the gpu though).

There's also a standard 34w that are added in for the motherboard. you can subtract that from the final result if you want a slightly more accurate number, but it's good headroom if you don't.

[kinghong1970]

thanks... googled it and found http://extreme.outervision.com/index.jsp... plugged in some figures and came out with something in excess of 600w...
hmm...

[defect9]

sounds pretty accurate, if a little high. You may need more rad or a fan controller that spins up the fans during load.

[relttem]

just curious about the size of your power supply...

[defect9]

I did some math using the SR1-360 as a reference. it's approximate and possibly filled with errors, but it should be close (at a minimum, it's estimating on the low end of performance, instead of overestimating). the 560 rad should be able to cool your setup with around a 10 degree air-to-water delta using 1000rpm fans. not amazing, but not even close to awful.

if my math really sucks, you may have better results than that.

*edit*

frontal surface area of the 560 is approximately double a 360 (if you do the math purely based on the size of the fans, and not taking into account any extra you get from additional width, it's exactly double). you could buy two 360s and probably save some cash. the Swiftech MCR-320 is almost identical performance to the SR1-360. plus 120mm fans have better selections on the market currently.

[kinghong1970]

@ relttem, not confirmed on any hardware or psu at the moment... still in an "exploratory" phase...
i'm just trying to get my bearings straight now to avoid a "oh crap" moment later on...

defect,

where would one get info on calculating the performance of a rad?

[defect9]

skinneelabs.com has a lot of roundups of the 360 rads, and from there you can fake the math to get ideas on larger versions of the same radiator. He has the "watts dissipated at fan speed" charts that make it much easier to figure out. if you like math, that's where to go.

Martinsliquidlab.org is another place I look for info. A lot of his radiator testing would be found in his archives somewhere while he's upgrading his radiator test rig.

Those two are the kings of radiator testing and information gathering at the moment (at least, in my opinion). There are others, but none go as far in ensuring their setups are as well-controlled and data-logged as them. At least, not that I've seen on english-speaking forums.

[aerial]

Extermal 1080 rad (phobya) with 4x180 fans, can cool everything, and is cheaper than most 4x120/140 rads with fans. You need to get two simple feet, pump can be attached to radiator through fittings, for example laing ddc with some solid top and tube resrvoir. It can handle cpu + sli with very good results, and potentially can handle more graphic cards. You are not limited to case size, can even use micro-atx with this setup, if radiator is external. Another benifit is silence, ad you can put radiator far away from your case, to reduce fan and pump noise (if you set it as rad/pump bundle). To solve disconnecting inconvenience, koolance quick connect fittings are best, allow to separate rad from your case without removing water from the loop. Imo this is best future proof solution.

[kinghong1970]

see that's the thing with me tho aerial, i'm fond of the old fashioned rads and honestly phobya looks like crap standing out there on it's own... of course, my opinion being just that, just another subjective opinion of an individual...

and i actually need a more linear fan orientation as well... so i'm limited to 120x4, 140x3 and the likes...

[Kosmic71]

If you want to run a single rad setup, you might want to buy a 420 or 560 rad and use 120mm fans with an adaptor (120mm fan to 140mm rad). You could then use the huge 120mm fan selection and profit from bigger frontal area.

[aerial]

There is also 3x180 radiator, recently very popular in FT02 or Raven cases, just problem is the size, and there is very few cases to fit this rad (unlike 120/140 that can fit into 5,25'' bays of regular case). But in terms of performance to is probably best "long" radiator. (pic by lowfat)

http://img848.imageshack.us/img848/8428/bigradiatorisbig.jpg

Phobya can fit into some cases (mountain mods, caselabs), but again, it will be large cube cases and very expensive.

Btw if you are concerned about the looks of external rad, can try with Mo-Ra3, they come with nice stainless steel enclosure, much ebtter quality than just regular rad like phobya. But it is quite expensive.
There is another approach to get rid of "ugly" external rad, you can just hide it. Nobody said it needs to be exposed next to your case, long tubing, and put it somewhere behind cabinet, just hide it. Rad is fairly slim, and doesn't require much room, low rpm fans also need very little space for air. Not hard to hide one.

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/8389/ra1ax.jpg

[Systemlord]

If you want to run a single rad setup, you might want to buy a 420 or 560 rad and use 120mm fans with an adaptor (120mm fan to 140mm rad). You could then use the huge 120mm fan selection and profit from bigger frontal area.

Like this?

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/1512/picture150y.jpg
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/7334/picture1513.jpg

[Church]

Hmm, it actually looks not that bad. Somehow i imagined before that 120mm fans with adapters would ruin looks and be unfit for builds with prioritised looks.

[kinghong1970]

ok, so the choices for a 140mm fan are slim.... but still, wouldn't it be better to stick a 140mm fan on a 140mm rad? why go and use a 120mm fan?

if it were the case where i were to push 5x120mm fans on a custom shroud to a 4x140mm rad... maybe raise an eyebrow... but i don't get the reason for suggesting a 120mm on a 140?

[Endgame]

The reason for 120s on 140mm rads is the fact that the 120mm fans are higher quality than the 140s.

[kinghong1970]

The reason for 120s on 140mm rads is the fact that the 120mm fans are higher quality than the 140s.

quality is one aspect... but performance as well?

[Kosmic71]

quality is one aspect... but performance as well?

Especially performance. Look for Martin testing of 120mm and 140mm fan threads.

[Sparky]

I would think that when using a 120mm fan on a 140mm radiator, you'd want the fan to be in pull mode, not push, as that would more likely use more of the surface area of the radiator. This is all in theory in my head however, I haven't looked at any real testing to directly compare the two.

[kinghong1970]

Especially performance. Look for Martin testing of 120mm and 140mm fan threads.

ok, i'll have to look that up... but here's something else...
According to HESmelaugh's review of large radiators... (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?226445-Huge-Radiators-Roundup)



CW, single rows of fans, push

NOTE: The TFC Monsta allows for 140 mm fans as well as 120 mm fans to be attached. It is always represented with two sets of data, a "140" or "120" showing which fan size was used.

http://www.abload.de/img/cwen6dyn.jpg

...Also worth noting is that the Monsta loses a huge amount of performance when it is equipped with 120 mm fans. With the smaller fans, the Monsta can barely keep up with the much more compact RX480 and is overtaken in performance by the GTS 420 at around 900rpm...

correct me if i'm wrong... but it seems that for the case of the Monsta, a 140mm fan performed better than a 120mm fan regardless of the rpm.


ok and in reference to Martinm's 140 fans on SR1...

120mm fans on an adapter: This is a bit apples to oranges with the adapter, but it’s fairly surprising just how close 120mm fans perform to 140mm fans on a CFM per dbA ratio perspective. The 140mm fans do have some CFM per RPM advantage and seem to produce a slightly lower frequency tone, but their noise levels were pretty much the same. This makes some of the stronger performing 120mm fans a very viable option on 140mm radiators. I had really hoped the 140mm fans would be a huge benefit over 120s, but I’m just not finding that. There is a good sized advantage to the larger 140mm radiator and reduced restriction, but the gain is in the radiator frontal area, not the 140mm fan itself.

I have a few more 140′s coming but that’s what I think so far…
Cheers!
Martin

i guess i'll ask Martin but honestly, couples of dbA does not really matter much to me, and again, correct me if i'm wrong but in terms of radiator performance, i don't see a very convincing argument to using 120's on 140 rads...

[Kosmic71]

Like this?



Yep.

What model is that?

[Kosmic71]

Sure, nothing wrong using 140mm fans. That's what I'm using on my Black Ice GT Stealth 420 because of a tight fit (reverse ATX setup) in my case. If I had to choose, I would of go with 120mm fans with adaptors.....38mm high speed fans at that!

[OnYourWifi]

I'm running 2x7970s and an i7 920 (stock clocks on everything) on a Phobya 1080 w/ 4x180mm Silverstone AP181s. I can run prime95 fft in-place and the furmark benchmark/ burn in and maintain an air/water delta T of roughly 8c with the fans running at their minimum rated RPM of 600. At that speed you can't even tell these fans are on- my hard drives are far noisier.

[Systemlord]

kinghong1970, if you're interested in a Black Ice SR1 the best performing fan would be the GT15's (w/ adapters) and the data backs that up. Now if you're wanting the TFC Monsta things are a little different, that is a huge radiator that need certain fans to work best. Using these GT15's with the BGears adapters are as close you're going to get to a 140mm version of a GT15!

Martin

I had really hoped the 140mm fans would be a huge benefit over 120s, but I’m just not finding that.