Hardware Recommendations????

[fireandsmoke]

All,
While waiting for all the good AMD stuff coming down the pipe, I'm thinking about firing up a P4 rig. What's the deal with the P4 technologies?
Do you go with a 850E chipset and run pc1066 rdram???
Do you go with a DDR chipset and run PC3200?
Abit?? Asus?? Who makes a rockin, overclockin P4 board?
And what's all of this about P4's being perma-locked and only tweaking fsb? And why does their fsb multiplied by 4 ??
I am a newbie and got my xp2200 rig on cruise control, but P4 seems more complicated... Can someone give a brief "how to" on overclocking a 2.53, 2.6 or 2.80??? Hardware tips, please..........
Thanks F&S

Anxiously awaiting Prometheia in my hometown...hey is it available in Canada??? B.C.??????????????:bounce:

[Bushboy]

Well most people who can afford it go for RAMBUS setups, becuase they have better memory bandwidth, but are much much more expensive. Abit make excellent P4 boards.

And P4s are locked, it's a matter of raising the FSB and memory ratios. They run at 533mhz bus which is why the 133FSB gets x4. Kinda like how AMD is about to go 333mhz bus. IMO AMD OCing is more complicated because there's more you have to worry about. You can lock the AGP/PCI with P4s which is something AMD has yet to introduce but apparently will with Nforce2.

Like I said as you dont need to worry about a mulitplier, what you do is tweak the FSB up.P4s also have the option to run your mem at a different ratio, instead of RAM FSB = CPU FSB, you can mulitply the memory bus. Also a tip if you dont know...don't put a lot of Vcore through a northwood, they get damaged in a few weeks.

[Chong345]

Agreed ABIT is very nice. Also coming from a guy with both an intel and an AMD rig, intel is a little easier IMO.

[fireandsmoke]

Great,
But still one thing. Abit doesn't make a P4, pc1066, 533mhz board...
IT7 - DDR
BD7 - DDR
TH7 - Intel 850 400mhz fsb pc800
BL7 - Intel 845 400mhz SDRAM
SD7 - SiS 645 DDR
So what boards are out there?? Asus makes one P4T533, and Gigabyte 8IHXP (although I read they max out at 157mhz fsb)
and what's left?? Now is all pc1066 the same as this pc4200 I hear talked about? What is the rdram currently used and good? Maybe Kingmax pc1066???
Thanks again!
F&S

[Leo]

ABit does not make an official PC1066 board but the TH7II will run 533/1066 without problem in nearly all cases.

Unless you're buying an Asus P4T533 (or the upcoming Epox board) you do NOT want RIMM4200. RIMM4200 is 32bit RDRAM, while PC800 and PC1066 is 16 bit. Most boards on the market use the 16 bit stuff.

When looking for good RDRAM, look for 128/8 or 256/16 sticks of Samsung PC800, should run at 1066 without much issue if you have any sort of luck at all. I haven't seen great #s of success stories with Kingmax.

As far as the Gigabyte board goes, there are several boards that do not let the FSB to be overclocked above 156 MHz, it's a limitation of the clock gen. The only way to get around this is to install a Turbo-PLL which most people choose not to do, that's why the TH7II is popular - it allows FSB speeds beyond 156 MHz. Be warned though, the TH7II is a notoriously bad CPU overclocker.

Finally, if you're going to go with a 16 bit RDRAM board remember, you gotta install the stuff in pairs.

[fireandsmoke]

Leo,
OK that helps...but if the TH7II is a bad overclocker, why is it popular? I don't understand how it can be a bad overclocker if it allows high fsb speeds. Locked multiplier X fsb = cpu spd?? Right?
So, are the DDR boards better? IT7??? Thanks for the info.
F&S

[Leo]

Yes, the multiplier is always locked with the only exception being the occasional unlocked engineering sample. The TH7II is considered a bad overclocker because modded i850 boards and stock i845 boards will almost always get you 100-200 MHz more on the CPU. However, unless you're looking to do serious modding to the "better" i850 boards the TH7II will allow for higher speeds. Basically it's popular becase it takes less effort to achieve a fairly good result - better than most all other i850 boards in stock form.

DDR boards aren't necessarily better. They tend to be slightly cheaper than the newest RDRAM boards and are easier to setup with the right hardware (in my personal opinion) so they're better in that sense, but most of the time RDRAM boards will be faster in the end.

[fireandsmoke]

Leo,
Here's what I'm thinking. There's a lot of "good stuff" out there now and coming soon. You've got Radeon 9700, kt400 AMD boards, xp 24, 26, 2700 cpu's before christmas, P4 2.8 and 3.06, 32 bit P4 mobos, etc coming in the same time frame. Maybe it'd be best to buy something "durable" right now...like a prometeia??
Something that's usable with technology for a couple years?? I could drop almost $600 on a P4 2.8 today at Newegg or find a Prometeia and wait for P4 3.06 and the newer P4 boards?? Or use new AMD stuff... By the end of the year, P4 2.53's will be available as the bonus inside a static free bag stuck to the back of PC Gamers magazine!!! HMmmmm...lots to think about!
F&S

[Leo]

Yeah, you could just wait it out or purchase something that should take you across several upgrades. There's gotta be a point where you finally buy something though. I find that people who are always waiting because new things will come out soon are the ones who never upgrade. New stuff will always be on the horizon and you'll always want to wait for it. It's your decision right now.

Either way, I think the best bet for most right now is to either get something like a Prometeia as you said or buy just under "top of the line" goods. There's are some pretty dang good deals now. For example, the reason I'm picking up a 2.4B right is they're $147 on the Intel IPD, not bad I think. Either way, you're sure to have fun with whatever you do.

[fireandsmoke]

Leo,
Yes, 2.4B for $147/thats smokin! I saw 2.53 for $243 on Googlegear. I'll probably do 2.53 - 2.80 in October...when the new 3.06P4 comes out. Until then I'll play with my xp2200, try a new board for it, (the gigabyte ga-7vrxp sucks) like a kx7 333R for $70 or something. AND of course wait for Prometeia! BTW what's your cooling setup? I see you weren't exactly thrilled with the above...Oh and have you heard from anyone if the Radeon 9700's are worth it, or much better than a GF4??
But you're right, I've got a box of parts I was saving for "the" PC and if I don't use them, they'll be junk ;-)
2 @ Maxtor 740X UATA133 7200 RPM 40gb (RAID 0) new in plastic
48 X 12 X 48 CD - CDRW
16X DVD drive
GF 4 4400ti
HighPower 360W PSU
My current rig is old (except for the mobo/ram/cpu) so I didn't want to build it.
Here's the possible November rig...
Prometeia
2.80P4
Epox 4t4A+
2 @ Samsung 256mb pc1066 32 BIT RIMM 4200
Radeon 9700
2 @ Maxtor 740X 40gb HD (Raid 0)
CDRW
DVD
PSU...something around 400 - 450w
I almost bought a Koolance tower for my xp2200, but I'll just chill and wait for the Promteia and turn the AMD into my aircooled office rig ...hehe
F&S

[Leo]

I'd say they're worth it if you want some nice benches :p. In all honesty I don't think it's that practical to buy a 9700 RIGHT at this moment but hey, we're not about practicality here heh.

As for my cooling, ever since my MX-EVA3 leaked all of its R-134A I've been totally stock cooled (money gets tight when you're entering your first year of college) - Intel stock cooler, stock ABit GPU cooler, etc.

Have fun with your Prometeia :).