Questions about learning gamer programming

[moiraesfate]

I'm debating on starting a program to learn coding to get into the MMO business. I'm really sick to death of what I'm doing and I want to do something I'll actually enjoy. It would be so much better than answering phone for a living.

Now there's alot of places that claim to teach you how to do animation in 18 months.

I was wondering how useful the schooling for this 18 months actually is in getting a job in the industry. Its an awful lot of money to spend for this schooling so I want to know that I have at least a fair chance of getting a job in it before I actually apply.

Or would it just be better to go for a four year college degree?

What I was thinking is that if the 18 month thing can get me into the business, I can then do upgrading while I'm actually working in the career field I enjoy.

[danielkza]

Programming and animating are two completely different things. Which one do you actually mean to do?

[moiraesfate]

Probably animating. Graphics. That sort of thing. If its possible to get a job after graduation. I think the actual programming might be beyond my math skills which were never good even in high school. But I love art, especially things like graphics and sound. I LOVE games. If I'm home, I'm playing on my computer, or my smartphone. Even if the tv is on. I would LOVE to learn how its done. How they create this stuff. It would be a dream come true to work for Bioware.

When I was growing up, I played the flute, and know a bit of piano and guitar (taught myself those two), I figure skated, did ballet, jazz and tap. I used to do alot of drawing, some painting and even did alot of creating models (mostly of dinosaurs) and things. I loved it, but I always thought I could never make use of it so I've basically stopped doing it all. I wish I could still skate, or at least dance (been dying to learn Irish dance for years) but I was in a car accident in 2004 that broke the bones in my leg so many times that bouncing on it means I could break it easily and its held together with a rod and plate.

So since I can't do the dance anymore, I want do at least do some of the other stuff I used to love so much. I got into internet graphics when playing games a while back. Its alot of fun, but I don't know the programs well enough to create from scratch, and I'd love to learn how.

I just want to do more with my life than answer phones, and deal with moron customers who can't figure out their head from their butt. I'm soooo much better than this. Worth so much more than this.

Sorry, little disillusioned with what I'm doing right now to put it politely. Saying that I loath my job and the career path that I fell into would probably fit better.

I just don't want to put that much money into something only to find that the market is so saturated the chances of me getting a job in it are a million to one.

[Heretic]

I just don't want to put that much money into something only to find that the market is so saturated the chances of me getting a job in it are a million to one.

The market is highly competitive for any game dev position and the benefits aren't great (esp. at the larger/publicly-traded studios); you do however, get to produce a game. What's key for getting hired tends to be your portfolio.

The places that claim to be able to teach you animation in 18 months likely won't impart the knowledge required to be competitive--you may learn how to animate, but you may not be exactly hire-able. I'd look at any metrics they have for post-graduate hires as well as input from industry members (whether via Twitter, Google+, email, or just finding articles/blog posts). If you have the time and discipline, I recommend starting with some Blender/3dsMax/Maya tutorials and trying your hand at some sort of mod development. Gamedev.net (http://www.gamedev.net/) and IGDA (http://www.igda.org/) may have some links to get you started.

[Serpentarius]

Probably animating. Graphics. That sort of thing. If its possible to get a job after graduation. I think the actual programming might be beyond my math skills which were never good even in high school. But I love art, especially things like graphics and sound. I LOVE games. If I'm home, I'm playing on my computer, or my smartphone. Even if the tv is on. I would LOVE to learn how its done. How they create this stuff. It would be a dream come true to work for Bioware.

When I was growing up, I played the flute, and know a bit of piano and guitar (taught myself those two), I figure skated, did ballet, jazz and tap. I used to do alot of drawing, some painting and even did alot of creating models (mostly of dinosaurs) and things. I loved it, but I always thought I could never make use of it so I've basically stopped doing it all. I wish I could still skate, or at least dance (been dying to learn Irish dance for years) but I was in a car accident in 2004 that broke the bones in my leg so many times that bouncing on it means I could break it easily and its held together with a rod and plate.

So since I can't do the dance anymore, I want do at least do some of the other stuff I used to love so much. I got into internet graphics when playing games a while back. Its alot of fun, but I don't know the programs well enough to create from scratch, and I'd love to learn how.

I just want to do more with my life than answer phones, and deal with moron customers who can't figure out their head from their butt. I'm soooo much better than this. Worth so much more than this.

Sorry, little disillusioned with what I'm doing right now to put it politely. Saying that I loath my job and the career path that I fell into would probably fit better.

I just don't want to put that much money into something only to find that the market is so saturated the chances of me getting a job in it are a million to one.


Like Heretic said, animation is a very competitive market. Love for games is different from developing one.

Since you understand you've a talent on art. It's a good start.
Animation is tough market. You'll have to juice your brains till you go bald and slave away daily to finish the tasks. Worst, not that you have to finish your task, you'll have to allocate your free time to study other people's work to be competitive as them. No time for games..... or rather, you'll hate games since you'll be looking into their work rather than playing it. If you're a man of the challenge, this might be a good place to be. ;)

Or imo if you would still to venture to the animation but not sacrificing your art talent .... advertisement industry is a good place. Well, we never know... advertisement industry can easily sidestep to entertainment....... might something nice for you.... :D

Or if you're not those type those ... you could still go for Interior designing .... well, every home, every building needs it's design and that require the touch of an interior designer....... in this way, you can still utilize your art talent. And interior designing is less time restricting, and you might get to travel but you'll have to deal with some pesky clients, especially if they're filthy rich. :D

[moiraesfate]

So you suggest learning programming then? Anything has got to be better than making $9.75 answering phone calls from people and nothing else while I get treated like dirt by management.

[s1nykuL]

So you suggest learning programming then? Anything has got to be better than making $9.75 answering phone calls from people and nothing else while I get treated like dirt by management.

I've been about a bit and worked in I.T. for around 18 years. Wherever you work the chances are that you will be treated like dirt by the management. If you can find a job that you enjoy doing though, it can make the treatment from management tolerable. I'm self employed now, one month I am comfortable financially, the next month I am being supported by the missus. However, I am happy. I would find it very hard now to take orders from someone without a clue or work to someone else's schedule.

I can't offer advice about game coding or animation, but I can say if you stick at your dream, have a little skill and a lot of determination you will get there. If you do embark on a course, learn your subject, not how to pass the exam, far too many courses these days teach the student to how to pass the exam and precious little else.

Just don't give up and good luck.

[moiraesfate]

Yeah, there's the possibility but the nightmare at my current job is the worst I've ever been treated. Its so bad, they are chasing me right out of the industry I used to love. The idea of even working in this industry anymore is putting a bad taste in my mouth. I hate this place with a special passion.

[desnudopenguino]

oh gosh... graphical design in gaming... build a sick sick sick portfolio, then get it critiqued to crap, then make it better. wash. rinse. repeat. have you been to any gaming cons? go to those... meet some people, see what they're doing, and get an idea for the market. this field is very competitive right now, and if you're an old dog, it might be hard do learn some new tricks so to say. if you have experience with 3d modelling, that's a plus. what type of gd would you be looking for? character design? background design/landscape design? i know kids that live in our gaming labs building models and stuff, and they don't have anything else to do, now for you who are out in the world working a full time job, that's going to be much harder, especially if you're trying to match these young fellows and their up-all-night work ethic. if this is something you really see yourself doing, go for it and go hard man, because there are tons of other hungry guys shooting for the same thing.

If you like design but don't want to dedicate your life to working on games instead of playing them, look into some other techno-art fields Serpentarius suggested, look into doing something else with your skills. web comics are pretty fly now. you can develop characters and a fun storyline for it and make a little money that way. or you could do some sweet site design. find a need and go for it! and if your heart is set on being a graphic designer for games, best of luck!

if you're tired of dealing with people and want to make more money, come up here, we have an amazon warehouse that's looking for workers... i think they are staring at like $12.75 an hour or so, and i heard they have good raises.

[moiraesfate]

I only have time for a short reply so I'll come back to this later today.

I am going to Dragon Con for the 4th year in a row. LOVE Dragon Con. But thats a very good point. They do have gaming panels so I'll look at them when we get there.

Back later.

[moiraesfate]

Well so much for being back later in the day on the 16th lol. Sorry guys.

I never got the chance to get to a panel at Dragon Con on game creation, though they did have a couple. My husband and I paid for things like getting a picture with Stan Lee which annoyingly happened at the exact same time as that picture.

I'm still considering this. I'm so sick to death of dealing with customers (or in my case guests), it isn't even funny. But worse than any guests are my managers. One is just lazy, the other... well he's been reported to human resources by me four times, by each of my coworkers at least twice, and recently by the Sales Administrative Assistant. He's insulting, condescending, rude, and just plain aggravating.

I REALLY want a job that I can just do without always being harassed. Its bad enough that I'm considering trying to find a way to start working at home doing desktop publishing or something just so I don't have to do this anymore.

That wonderful vacation really did go very well and we had much fun. I came back and that good feeling didn't even last an hour after I came back to work when I found out that I still hadn't gotten paid and we didn't know when we would be.

Thanks for your help everyone. I'll figure it out.

[desnudopenguino]

If you're into Graphic design type stuff, pick up a little freelance work on the side to start. Build a reputation and a good portfolio site. The work may not be as steady as a 9-5, but it can help supplement while also giving you the opportunity to sharpen your skills and have a little fun. Or you could start a web comic (as I mentioned before) and use google's ad sense. Then you could get some money for just having people check out your comic. As popularity grows, you may eventually be able to quit your current job, and get into something that suits your tastes more.

[moiraesfate]

I have a whole bunch of desktop publishing stuff that I did when I was in college for my Administrative Assistants Associates Degree (I'm a trained medical AA but really don't want to do it for a living). While I was there, we did alot more than just training for that exact subject and my favorite classes were always things like Desktop Publishing. Since I lost all the digital files in my move to the US, I'm going to get the hard copies scanned into pdf format so I can create an online portfolio. I actually know some html coding already, and I used to know some old versions of Dreamweaver and the like which I imagine I could find somewhere and just update my knowledge on it. I'd rather be doing that than this any day.

I still want to go back to school for something in computers. My ex was an IT tech (as in networks and stuff), and I don't think I want to do that stuff. I want to do something more artistic. When in college I could disappear into that stuff and the whole world around me would fade away. Suddenly three hours would be gone in an eye blink. I badly want a job that I can actually enjoy.

I'm still thinking of learning animation. Though even Web Design isn't out of the question at this point, though I think I'd have to take classes in sql design if I did because I honestly don't have a clue how to do that or even where to start.

Things at my job are getting worse by the day. And I HATE being there. I think its only a matter of time before the company shuts down. A month. Maybe two. I'm trying to find something else before then but I don't think I'll be able to in this economy. I might as well seize the chance to do something I really want. Seems that there are lots of people agreeing with me and doing the same thing too. The COO told the Sales Assistant yesterday that if she has another job to take it and that if he was offered another job making ten to twenty thousand less than he's making now, he's take it too just to get out of the place.

[uOpt]

Learning programming is never a bad idea. You learn to make the computer do what you want, and even if you don't work as a programmer later that is very handy.

Having said that, you will usually have to put up with a lot of Dilbert style business nonsense and there can be a nasty kind of stress. And in the game industry much more so.

My recommendation is to learn a programming language and start contributing to some form of open source project. There aren't too many games in the open source world, but some are available. If you manage to make a substantial contribution there that will help enormously getting a real job. Not only can you provide solid proof of what you did in the past without breaking a previous employer's NDA, it right there on the web. You will also have the other people on the project be able to be references. If you have high impact you can be picked up right out of the project.

Plus, it allows you to try out whether the software development cycle is really your thing, and do it without spending 100 grands in college money. Open source projects generally have higher requirements for code quality and people give you more :banana::banana::banana::banana: before you can commit something, so if anything it prepares you well and things look easy in the real world.

[moiraesfate]

I used to know Basic, Pascal and a rudimentary C (we ran out of time to finish learning the C language) from high school. It has been a long while admittedly.

But I'm assuming you mean C++ which seems to be the industry programming standard. If not C++, I assume you mean things like Java. Do you recommend a specific book to start with? I'm perfectly willing to teach myself.

[uOpt]

I used to know Basic, Pascal and a rudimentary C (we ran out of time to finish learning the C language) from high school. It has been a long while admittedly.

But I'm assuming you mean C++ which seems to be the industry programming standard. If not C++, I assume you mean things like Java. Do you recommend a specific book to start with? I'm perfectly willing to teach myself.

"finish" learning the C language made me chuckle. I didn't finish yet and it's been a while :)

I recommend C++ over Java in general, and more so if games are your goal. You generally don't have to go overboard with the advanced C++ features, most projects use only a subset. Being an expert in all of C++ is basically a full-time job it it's own right. Most open source software is written in plain C.

Learning C in a way that may make your contributions acceptable to open source projects is probably best done by using the K&R C book. I didn't see anything better.

If you want to learn a language to do something productive on your own (aka a scripting language) TCL is my recommendation. Do not learn a language that only has one implementation if that implementation is under control of a single company.

[moiraesfate]

Heh, it was only C, not C++. We only had about three weeks in it before the semester ended. I actually wanted to continue in it, but at the time I was more into Biology and all the computer classes conflicted with my biology classes. Yeah, that was back in 91 or so. A long long time ago now. Things have changed alot since then.

Thank you for your suggestions. Any book suggestions for the beginner?