Where is my coolant going?

[dejanh]

Well, I seem to have an interesting "problem" on my hands. I have been running watercooling for about 3 years now, and have set up some quite complicated systems in the meantime. I am quite meticulous and careful when setting up my loops and ensure that everything is running as expected. Lately however I have noticed that the water level on my reservoir is dropping every few weeks in my primary system, and not by a tiny amount but quite significantly (at least in my opinion). In about 2 months I drop about 25-30ml of fluid. This has so far happened about 3 times and each time I simply topped up the res and onwards I went. Before anybody asks, I have checked all of the connections and they are as dry as a bone, no leaks anywhere. The rads are solid, fittings are solid, res is solid, as are the pumps. I bled the system when filling it for the first time.

So, with that said, could it really be that I simply have that much trapped air in the system that is slowly being released over time that I could not bleed out of the system originally? I am discounting evaporation through tubing as I have been using the same type of tubing for several years now and never experienced this before, not to mention that the temperatures are nothing to fret about around here so there is no unusual "heating" of any parts of the loop.

Thoughts?

[zeropluszero]

Well, I seem to have an interesting "problem" on my hands. I have been running watercooling for about 3 years now, and have set up some quite complicated systems in the meantime. I am quite meticulous and careful when setting up my loops and ensure that everything is running as expected. Lately however I have noticed that the water level on my reservoir is dropping every few weeks in my primary system, and not by a tiny amount but quite significantly (at least in my opinion). In about 2 months I drop about 25-30ml of fluid. This has so far happened about 3 times and each time I simply topped up the res and onwards I went. Before anybody asks, I have checked all of the connections and they are as dry as a bone, no leaks anywhere. The rads are solid, fittings are solid, res is solid, as are the pumps. I bled the system when filling it for the first time.

So, with that said, could it really be that I simply have that much trapped air in the system that is slowly being released over time that I could not bleed out of the system originally? I am discounting evaporation through tubing as I have been using the same type of tubing for several years now and never experienced this before, not to mention that the temperatures are nothing to fret about around here so there is no unusual "heating" of any parts of the loop.

Thoughts?

tubing is porous, microscopically.

[zalbard]

tubing is porous, microscopically.
Umm...

I am discounting evaporation through tubing as I have been using the same type of tubing for several years now and never experienced this before, not to mention that the temperatures are nothing to fret about around here so there is no unusual "heating" of any parts of the loop.
And I am not really sure... Do you have a new res or something? Any unusual new components?

[dejanh]

Umm...

And I am not really sure... Do you have a new res or something? Any unusual new components?
I have been using IandH 225ml res for a while now which sits external to my case on the back. Before that I was using Swiftech MICRO-RES that sat inside the case. I am wondering if there is evaporation happening at the cap maybe of the IandH res? I am using a BP cap but maybe the o-ring is not sealing 100%? Otherwise nothing new. I put in an EK Supreme HF about 3 months ago but I'd see if it was leaking and as I said I already checked it and other components.

That is what is so puzzling about this. Maybe zeropluszero is right...could the tubing have degraded? I used the same tubing for about 1 year now. It's strange that it would be so much though as well as that the tubing would degrade like that considering I am using high-quality Tygon Norprene 3/4" OD tubing.

[PiLsY]

Id say you probably have a micro leak at an o-ring somewhere.

If its really worrying you then tear down the whole loop and clean every o-ring and seal surface. TBH though at that rate that's around 2-3 drips a week - I really wouldnt bother. If it gets worse then yeah, but I wouldnt bother unless it does.

[ggdh]

I had a small leak at bleeding screw of my pa120.3. I didn't notice that until I had to empty the case. There was dried leftover/residue from blue coolant which was replaced 1 YEAR earlier. I was missing ~1cm of liquid in the reservoir / 2 weeks.

[CrazyNutz]

Permeation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permeation

Liquid & gases can, and do escape through the tubing & seals on a molecular level. Also some seals may not be so great i.e. you could have greater loss on some seals, it may not be something that you can visually see happening.

[NaeKuh]

tubing is porous, microscopically.

+1

why is this so hard to understand?

Its pourus... if u let coolant sit over time at a temperature higher then ambient what happens?

:ROTF:

[Church]

NaeKuh: there is tiny problem with coolant level dropping explanation purely by porosity of tubing though. I recall in another forum user asking me - if coolant loss via tubing is inevitable and main cause for it for most people, why for HIM coolant level had stayed SAME for very long time? (it was long time ago though, so i don't remember specific tubing brand used or how long 'long' was :)) I didn't know what to answer, except that maybe it's not as much tubing porosity as we think, but maybe some microleaks on fitting part or smth.

[CrazyNutz]

NaeKuh: there is tiny problem with coolant level dropping explanation purely by porosity of tubing though. I recall in another forum user asking me - if coolant loss via tubing is inevitable and main cause for it for most people, why for HIM coolant level had stayed SAME for very long time? (it was long time ago though, so i don't remember specific tubing brand used or how long 'long' was :)) I didn't know what to answer, except that maybe it's not as much tubing porosity as we think, but maybe some microleaks on fitting part or smth.

I've seen some coolants in the past that claimed to have ingredients to slow the permeation process down.

Also I think temperature may contribute to it. Warmer temps would expand the micro pores

[Russ_64]

Id say you probably have a micro leak at an o-ring somewhere.

If its really worrying you then tear down the whole loop and clean every o-ring and seal surface. TBH though at that rate that's around 2-3 drips a week - I really wouldnt bother. If it gets worse then yeah, but I wouldnt bother unless it does.

This is exactly what I had - could not see any leaks until I stripped down my loop, then I found an O-ring on a barb on a rad was leaking but the fluid had dried before becoming noticable.......

[dejanh]

This is exactly what I had - could not see any leaks until I stripped down my loop, then I found an O-ring on a barb on a rad was leaking but the fluid had dried before becoming noticable.......
Hmm...I guess I will just keep monitoring it and topping up as it happens. If I notice that it is accelerating or getting worse then I will worry about it. Once I get my new 3x GTX480s with waterblocks I will be taking down the loop anyway at least partially so I may do a once-over of all the fittings again. Last time I did not find anything. It really has no impact on performance or anything though, other than having to top-up now about 3 times in the last 5-6 months. Everything is working pristine otherwise. I'd call it more an annoyance than anything.

[Sparky]

Sorry. I was thirsty so I drank some.

[tw33ter]

Here's what might help with leak detection... Add some UV dye to your loop, then use a blacklight to help with seeing where any has leaked out.

[kevikev]

I have the same "problem" on my loop and keep topping it off every couple weeks. I'll top it off to almost full then in a week or two, the water level will be significantly lower with what looks like water beading up on the sides of the res where the water level has receded. Does your res have water beading on the sides, too? Or completely clear and dry?

Not screwing the fillport thumb screw tightly enough should not cause evaporation issues, should it? I don't tighten it too tightly as I know I'll need to open it back up again to top off my res.

[Serpentarius]

wipe clean the oring and the threads before sealing it ... a little water from the threads and the oring will cause the water particles to seep out of the stop fittings and vaporized from the moving air.

[NaeKuh]

I have the same "problem" on my loop and keep topping it off every couple weeks. I'll top it off to almost full then in a week or two, the water level will be significantly lower with what looks like water beading up on the sides of the res where the water level has receded. Does your res have water beading on the sides, too? Or completely clear and dry?

Not screwing the fillport thumb screw tightly enough should not cause evaporation issues, should it? I don't tighten it too tightly as I know I'll need to open it back up again to top off my res.

wait how long have you been topping it off?

and what kind of res do you have?

Because it can take up to a month to fully bleed out some systems... and im talking about all the micro bubble which could be stuck that u dont really notice. Or the bubbles on the tubing themselves.

[kevikev]

wait how long have you been topping it off?

and what kind of res do you have?

Because it can take up to a month to fully bleed out some systems... and im talking about all the micro bubble which could be stuck that u dont really notice. Or the bubbles on the tubing themselves.

I've been topping it off what seems like forever... but then, this is a system that I don't turn on that much, it's mainly used for my hard core Oblivion or Fallout RPG gaming for several hours then I put it to sleep.

It's a Z150 reservoir. Even when I had the EK250 res it was doing this ... until the EK250 spider cracked ;)

[Fatfool]

+1

why is this so hard to understand?

Its pourus... if u let coolant sit over time at a temperature higher then ambient what happens?

:ROTF:
Vapour pressure increases.

[dejanh]

Sorry. I was thirsty so I drank some.
Why you little! :doh:

Here's what might help with leak detection... Add some UV dye to your loop, then use a blacklight to help with seeing where any has leaked out.
True enough. If I cannot sort it out in the next month or two then I will go down that route. I do not like adding dye to my loop though of any sort, but I may have to try it.

wipe clean the oring and the threads before sealing it ... a little water from the threads and the oring will cause the water particles to seep out of the stop fittings and vaporized from the moving air.
This is a very good point. I will need to check for this at the next tear-down. For now though I need my system up and running.