Official EK statement - Nickel Plating Issues

[Eddy_EK]

Dear user of EK products,

Original EK statement can be found also here (http://www.ekwaterblocks.com/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01articleid=83&cntnt01origid=15&cntnt01returnid=17).

EK Nickel plated products have been under lot of public interest recently due to reported flaking issues. This is a short statement to summarize the important points and conclusions from research done recently. In our statement there are also links to technical papers covering the issue in depth. We hope this will clarify the situation. EK promises that we will pursue this issue furthermore.

EK Water Blocks Company has been working on the Nickel Plating issue for over 3 months now. Let us say that any test with nickel is a long term project, if we want to be thorough.

We chose technical Institute Jozef Stefan (http://www.ijs.si/) which is well known worldwide to check our samples. Their test report can be found here (www.ekwaterblocks.com/shop/EK-IMAGES/Corrosion_Report_Final.pdf).

We have also made internal tests (www.ekwaterblocks.com/shop/EK-IMAGES/EKWB_Internal_Report.pdf) of 5 different coolants in an identical hardware setup.
What we found in summary is that:
1. Certain chemical additives based on pure silver and Copper Sulphate that were added to the loops all of these cases have made distilled water electrolytic and with its properties they caused corrosion of nickel plating.
2. Most of the threads on the forums have stated nickel-plating flaking off, while research have disclosed there was no flaking involved whatsoever.

Effects of these additives were not commonly known. EK is sure that users are using them in good faith. Due to only until recently confirmed effects of these additives to nickel plated blocks, EK have decided to fully replace products with damage nickel plating in order to support customers of EK products.
You will get a specific EK RMA form from your reseller which can be also downloaded here (www.ekwaterblocks.com/shop/EK-IMAGES/EKWB_RMA.doc).

To get the RMA product replacement you will need to follow these steps:
1. Fill in RMA form
2. Make pictures of the block (front, back and corrosion close-up)
3. Send RMA form, scan of original invoice and 3 pictures for each block to support@ekwaterblocks.com e-mail.
4. We will then inform you where to ship the damaged block(s).
5. EK support will inform you from where your replacement block will be shipped to you (in most cases it will be shipped from the location where you bought it)
6. Customer will pay shipping costs for the replacement block and can discuss with the reseller what shipping method to use
7. Customer will get the block replaced and cannot ask for a credit note nor replacement for another product. Only thing that we allow is that customer can chose to replace the product for non-Nickel-Plated block – copper version.

Therefore until further notice EK Water Blocks Company recommends, not to use distilled water with silver in the loop in combination with nickel-plated blocks, nor additives based on Copper Sulphate.

EK recommends only coolants with anticorrosion additive, although our internal test systems of pure distilled water have been found without any problem in 2 months test period. EK Team would like to ask you to kindly spread this information as we would like our users to continue having excellent experiences with EK products.

The replacement form can be filled in until July 31st, and starting with August 1st EK will no longer replace products with such damage as the reason of the damage will be widely known and customers still using these additives will do it under their own risk. The replacement request can also be possible only for the purchases with invoices dated up to June 12th 2011.

Edvard König

[Kenjiwing]

So RMA the block to get another block that might or not might have flaking nickel?

[shawnoen]

And what about blocks people have that show corrosion that have NEVER been used?

[XiraN]

What about blocks that have never been used that are showing symptoms of nickle flaking / corrosion? Must be that highly toxic and electrolytic air inside the packaging at work?

[Eddy_EK]

Once again, I would like to express that there is no nickel flaking found.

The new products with some spots that may look like nickel corrosion is nothing more but the leftover from a nickel plating bath water. if you moisture it with your breath and use a cotton mop you can clean it.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v421/theseekeroffun/Madness%20Continued/DSC03892.jpg

Right now we can recommend only the coolants that we have tested, EC6 and AT Fluoprotect, more tests will follow. The distilled water is an option if you change it regularly but cant guarantee it as distilled water has different qualities across the world....

[shazza]

Eddy - thanks for your posting.

To everyone who plans to post a comment regarding Eddy's announcement: Please post your comments or questions in a civil manner. No flaming. If you have additional questions for Eddy, post them but again - stay calm. Let's keep this thread useful as an information source.

[[AK]Zip]

Once again, I would like to express that there is no nickel flaking found.

The new products with some spots that may look like nickel corrosion is nothing more but the leftover from a nickel plating bath water. if you moisture it with your breath and use a cotton mop you can clean it.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v421/theseekeroffun/Madness%20Continued/DSC03892.jpg

Right now we can recommend only the coolants that we have tested, EC6 and AT Fluoprotect, more tests will follow. The distilled water is an option if you change it regularly but cant guarantee it as distilled water has different qualities across the world....

The picture you posted is of theseeker's waterblock which has never been used that you can see here: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=4871279&postcount=517

You can clearly see that is not the only thing on the block.

Here you see he says it has never been used: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=4871301&postcount=519

Vapor then asked him if the spots can be removed: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=4871342&postcount=523

His reply is no: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=4871355&postcount=524

There have been other blocks posted with similar and worse issues that have never been used.

Also how exactly does distilled water + silver cause this on the EK plating and no other companies nickel plating that I have seen?

[zalbard]

Certain chemical additives based on pure silver and Copper Sulphate that were added to the loops all of these cases have made distilled water electrolytic and with its properties they caused corrosion of nickel plating.
...
EK recommends only coolants with anticorrosion additive, although our internal test systems of pure distilled water have been found without any problem in 2 months test period. EK Team would like to ask you to kindly spread this information as we would like our users to continue having excellent experiences with EK products.
Please make something clear, Eddy. Is "PrimoChill Liquid Utopia Protective Fluid (http://www.frozencpu.com/products/5785/ex-liq-38/PrimoChill_Liquid_Utopia_-_Clear.html?tl=g30c103s186)" completely safe?

PrimoChill's latest water cooling fluid innovation Liquid Utopia, offers a full line of protection against algae and corrosion when added to new or existing cooling loops.
So it's supposed to protect blocks against both algae and corrosion.
Could be a good recommended additive. What do you think?

[Eddy_EK]

I guarantee you this is not a nickel plating problem, more a discoloration. Using right coolant the block will last his card lifetime and more.

[Xrim]

What worries me is if I get a new plated block AND FOLLOW EK's recommendation and it still ends up flaking/corroding. What to do then? After the 1st of august they will NOT replace any blocks with such damage. And there are people with Flaking/corrosion that have NOT used silver or copper sulfate.
There is no way for me to prove that I have not used any non recommended additives. And that leaves me at the mercy of the nickel god, and he have not been good to me lately.
The option to get a copper block is really nice though and I think I will get one of those instead so I never have to worry about the nickel.

[Eddy_EK]

Please make something clear, Eddy. Is "PrimoChill Liquid Utopia Protective Fluid (http://www.frozencpu.com/products/5785/ex-liq-38/PrimoChill_Liquid_Utopia_-_Clear.html?tl=g30c103s186)" completely safe?

So it's supposed to protect blocks from both algae and corrosion.
Could be a good recommended additive. What do you think?

We cannot confirm it because we haven't tested it. We do plan to test it.
We will also be testing some algaecide with the anticorrosive additive to see if they corrode the nickel plating thus having anticorrosive additive.

However I am wondering, as much as I know about the anticorrosive additives, how could few drops of this prevent corrosion.

[OC Maximus]

Thanks Eddy. Very interesting results.

Question:

Is this PT Nuke (Active Ingredient: Benzalkonium chloride 1.65%) an additive based on Copper Sulphate?

http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/sidewindercomputers_2159_537254

[st0ned]

Does Feser One Blue have any of the "no no no " stuff ?

http://www.koolertek.com/computer-parts/pc/catalog/FL-1003-1.jpg

[Sparky]

Can't say I'm totally convinced Eddy as to the cause, but glad you are RMAing current blocks.

[[AK]Zip]

Please make something clear, Eddy. Is "PrimoChill Liquid Utopia Protective Fluid (http://www.frozencpu.com/products/5785/ex-liq-38/PrimoChill_Liquid_Utopia_-_Clear.html?tl=g30c103s186)" completely safe?

So it's supposed to protect blocks against both algae and corrosion.
Could be a good recommended additive. What do you think?

I don't know the PrimoChill Liquid Utopia, but if it is anything like the PrimoChill Ice I would avoid it. One of the pumps I repaired the owner was PrimoChill Ice and it left hardened residue all over the impeller and around the o-ring where the most amount of pressure is in the pump. Took me 30 minutes just to clean out the pump and could easily wear down on the ceramic ball in the pump which acts as a bearing. This would eventually cause the pump to fail through seizure.

[prznar1]

from different forum.


Originally Posted by Eddy_EK

The replacement form can be filled in until July 31st, and starting with August 1st EK will no longer replace products with such damage as the reason of the damage will be widely known and customers still using these additives will do it under their own risk. The replacement request can also be possible only for the purchases with invoices dated up to June 12th 2011.


Posted by Blue Destroyer

I would also like to point out this point. You cannot modify a warranty program without approval of both parties. Dont know what idiots you have in your Public Relations/Legal but they are pretty dumb. What the product was sold with(warranty) is what it is bound to. Your finding in your tests are pretty screwed up. Many people have used them with silver and never had a problem, im guessing those people had Nickel playing that was done correctly while everyone else had a batch that was screwed up. again, just cause you say you want to change the warranty, does not mean you can. The product is defective, you deny a warranty, you will more than likely face a lawsuit under the Magnuson-Moss act.

[Defoler]

I don't get it.
Distilled and silver have been safe for a very long time, and suddenly its not, or its just for EK?
As I hadn't seen anyone describe this issue on another company's blocks.
I got a used nickel swiftech block which was used for almost a year using silver and distilled, and it doesn't show any signs or issues. Clean as a whistle.

Also just noting that for some, sending the block and getting it back on their own money, is going to cost as much as the block itself.
In that case I would prefer to get a new block from another company, check if my current full nickle one is clean, and sell it if it does. Same with my 580 block.

[VMB90]

Dear Eddy EK

I bought 4 EK's nickel plated blocks ( Supreme HF, Full cover block for evga x58 classified, and two FC580 GTX+ blocks) 2 months ago without knowing about this problems with nickel plating, I discovered all this last week so I've been running my blocks for last 1 and half months now.
After reading this statement I was disappointed that your company will only provide this "special RMAs" until July 31st its obviously puts me and other people with similar situation in a bad spot because if i decide to believe in you and let my system run for about 8-10 months more and after that discover that all my block are ruined, and according to this statement I wont be able to replace them after that.
BTW I'm using Thermochill EC6 and i did not used anything else but that doesn't make me less worried about my blocks.

Srry for bad my English, not my 1st language

[arkadur]

Eddy, i got new nickel blocks (sr-2 and 2 RAM blocks) that i bought for my project.
i dont want to fit them on my board and remove them in few weeks because of flaking.

can i RMA them?

[NKrader]

I don't get it.
Distilled and silver have been safe for a very long time, and suddenly its not, or its just for EK?
As I hadn't seen anyone describe this issue on another company's blocks.
I got a used nickel swiftech block which was used for almost a year using silver and distilled, and it doesn't show any signs or issues. Clean as a whistle.


+1
seems my nickel plated hk must be a differant kind of nickel.

lol.. so now we have to use gross coolant nonsence to keep ek blocks good?

nty.. :shakes: you guys use a really special kind of nickel?

[Avathar77]

So what happens to the people who have paid an extra premium for the nickel products and opt to have the copper one? Will the reseller refund the difference?

[prznar1]

.....

this issue, so far, is known to be only on EK blocks. but i highly doubt that we will see that on other brands.

as for the money, i was just about to say that to.


6. Customer will pay shipping costs for the replacement block and can discuss with the reseller what shipping method to use
:down: fliked up situation... EK cut the costs a bit to much (this is not the only issue on EK products. EK res cracking...).

[Defoler]

nty.. :shakes: you guys use a really special kind of nickel?

I guess it grows under virgin feet and treated with the best massage oils.
I don't know.
I want nickle to be nickle. Not something special from the moon or mars.

[Wolf132]

You know what I find amazing, that I have not seen one bad thing on nickel plated Koolance blocks yet (other than the steel plugs 3 years ago) even after all this happened, and EVERYONE OF THEIR BLOCKS IS NICKEL PLATED. I think I'll pass on EK products from now on, because instead of blaming the plater (100% is their fault and no one will convince me otherwise), they try to blame the coolant, when koolance nickel plated blocks have had 0 problems with the said coolants + additives. So EK's solution is to send the blocks back to the SAME PLATER, to get replated by the same process that previously did not work. :shakes:

[gelatinousfury]

Question for Eddy:

I have three EK FC580 nickel-plated blocks that haven't been used yet, but I wish to exchange them for the copper-only versions, can that also be accommodated by this RMA process? I don't care if I get the price difference back, at all. An even exchange is just fine.

If not, I don't know what I'm going to do with my 3 brand new nickel-plated blocks, but they are not going into my watercooling loop.

Thanks

[Defoler]

So what happens to the people who have paid an extra premium for the nickel products and opt to have the copper one? Will the reseller refund the difference?

From what eddy wrote, no.
You can get either the same item you have, or a copper version. That's it. No money return at all.

[prznar1]

^wolf132

good point. i would like to read Eddy's reply to that.

[NKrader]

^wolf132

good point. i would like to read Eddy's reply to that.

he wont.

[Devil_Dog]

Thanks for the info Eddy but I do have a few questions for you.

First is regarding the RMA process. What do you anticipate the turn around will be for us here in the US? Where will be sending the block to and will the replacement block be sent once you have received the old one or once verified by the info requested sent with the RMA form. Granted it be from you or the reseller.

Now the other is in regards to the testing that has been done. Has the same test been performed on other nickel plated blocks or plated products from other vendors to further study the affect? If not do you plan on doing so? It may seem crazy to do but this has not occurred with nickel plated blocks form other vendors and if it did they did a hell of a job keeping it quiet. I have been using distilled water and silver for 2 years with other nickel plated blocks and they look as new and shiny as the day I got them.

[mpolter]

I would like to see the "Institute" perform a test on an EK wb from a vendor to see how good the plating is before hand. It has to be a random vendor with stock and not a hand-picked special one from EK.


--MikeP

[miahallen]

EK, I just purchased 3x Acetal & nickel blocks for my GTX 580s.

- In order to check and see if corrosion is occuring on my blocks, I'll need to remove the "warranty void if removed" sticker. Will you still honor the RMA proceedures as outlined in the OP?
- Also, if my blocks are OK...I'll need to get an official recommendation for a fluid which can be obtained in the USA. I am not familiar with the options you listed.

Thanks ;)

[pcfreak]

Sidewinder News - June 4 2011

Sidewinder Computers has released a statement concerning all EK Nickel Plated Waterblocks. Click here to read it.

Go to Sidewinder site and click the link yourself...

[NKrader]

EK, I just purchased 3x Acetal & nickel blocks for my GTX 580s.

- In order to check and see if corrosion is occuring on my blocks, I'll need to remove the "warranty void if removed" sticker. Will you still honor the RMA proceedures as outlined in the OP?
- Also, if my blocks are OK...I'll need to get an official recommendation for a fluid which can be obtained in the USA. I am not familiar with the options you listed.

Thanks ;)

this has been said a couple times before. the sticker is saying its leak-proof not that your void warranty of your water block.

btw love your build :)

[NaeKuh]

Eddy Im glad ur taking the RMA's however your statement makes no sense.

Did it ever occure to you, if you guys are the only one having the problem, then possibly its just you guys, and NOT us?

Take an example at koolance or swiftech even.
Have you heard anyone complain about there nickle plating?
And im fairly sure those of us who are on swiftech and koolance are doing what u are telling us not to do without any ill effects.

And after all the flaking pictures you've seen, your still not saying its flaking?

Sorry if i dont sound civil, but Eddy, it looks like you guys are going around the bush..
Instead of saying stop using this ... stop using that... maybe its best if u guys CHANGE your nickle process to something that works.
Because if u get professional nickle platers come in here and tell you, what you said is a result of trying to cut cost, these scars you have are going to turn into amputations.

[tiborrr]

Warranty void sticker on the blocks ensures the water blocks is leak-proof out-of-the-box. Breaking the orange/black warranty seal does not void the warranty of your water block.

[Avathar77]

Any one know if this issue is for EK Supreme HF Full Nickel as well? Or is it just for GPU blocks?

[[AK]Zip]

Any one know if this issue is for EK Supreme HF Full Nickel as well? Or is it just for GPU blocks?

All nickel EK blocks.

[XiraN]

Ram and motherboard blocks too, so yes, everything has the problem, just GPU are easy to see with those plexi tops and lots of surface area.

[NaeKuh]

Any one know if this issue is for EK Supreme HF Full Nickel as well? Or is it just for GPU blocks?

his statement said straight up...
IF you want to use eK blocks with nickle.. you can not use distilled + silver.
And that is leaving a sour taste in my mouth kinda like when he said u can not use PT Nuke on his plexi.
Well... i cant speak for the vendor... but if those are the options i am left with.. well... i'll leave it at that..
But it makes no sense for eK to tell us what we cant do, when other vendors shows us we can do it.
But if you want eK, dont let me stop you.

And let me remind you about premixes which eK says we must use.
If your using an injection style block.. something that uses a Injector head... ie.. the HF with P1 nozzle, or a KL-350,360,370, or AC Kryos.... expect mystery jelly clogging your jets from the straining / filter action in months of time. (we used to call it hydr-x mystery gelly). Its actually the glycol in proply or ethly combined with heat and pressure, solidfying into a gelly like material.
(systems with higher flow, show faster collection..)


Eddy, once again... i would honestly recommend u revaluate your statement.
sometimes i understand the way you write stuff, is not the way you intend for them to sound.
Take a good look at your testing results.. and instead of trying to place blame on everything else around the platter..

LOOK AT THE PLATTER.

All these problems u mention can start at a piss poor plater.
Most particularly at a very poor nickle plate start.

[aqualab]

Eddy is right but he forgot to mention all the details; it’s true that an electrolyte can cause what we see on the blocks, but what he forgot to mention, is the nickel have to be in close contact with copper in this electrolyte, and the only way it can happen it’s when defective platting expose the copper, that explain why other manufacturers don’t have the same problem , now Ek will replace the block, of course they was damage before been put in the electrolyte, and EK ask you to not use anymore electrolyte to not damage other block with imperfection. All that to cover manufacturer imperfections. .

[USFORCES]

You know what I find amazing, that I have not seen one bad thing on nickel plated Koolance blocks yet (other than the steel plugs 3 years ago) even after all this happened, and EVERYONE OF THEIR BLOCKS IS NICKEL PLATED. I think I'll pass on EK products from now on, because instead of blaming the plater (100% is their fault and no one will convince me otherwise), they try to blame the coolant, when koolance nickel plated blocks have had 0 problems with the said coolants + additives. So EK's solution is to send the blocks back to the SAME PLATER, to get replated by the same process that previously did not work. :shakes:

Umm, it says "Only thing that we allow is that customer can chose to replace the product for non-Nickel-Plated block – copper version."

Atleast EK is adressing the issue, I will continue to use EK I've always liked there blocks over others!

[miahallen]

this has been said a couple times before. the sticker is saying its leak-proof not that your void warranty of your water block.

btw love your build :)
Thanks :up:


Warranty void sticker on the blocks ensures the water blocks is leak-proof out-of-the-box. Breaking the orange/black warranty seal does not void the warranty of your water block.

Duh....it'd probably help if I read them :rofl:

[NaeKuh]

but what he forgot to mention, is the nickel have to be in close contact with copper in this electrolyte, and the only way it can happen it’s when defective platting expose the copper, that explain why other manufacturers don’t have the same problem , now Ek will replace the block, of course they was damage before been put in the electrolyte, and EK ask you to not use anymore electrolyte to not damage other block with imperfection. All that to cover manufacturer imperfections. .

:rolleyes:

shhhhh... not yet... dont bring out all the cards yet...

But yes... which is why i am telling Eddy to stop looking at things around the system, and look at the presystem.

Ie.. the plater.


Eddy why are you guys protecting the platter?
Are you guys plating the blocks @ shop personally?
If you guys are... your seriously doing something wrong..

This is what were trying to tell you.
Your plating process is messed up, and you guys need to fix it.
Not tell us how we can accept your wrong plating process.

[NKrader]

Ie.. the platter.

platter?
http://pricelessprovider.com/images/37793.jpg
:sofa:


figured id lighten the mood :rofl:

[MrToad]

platter?
http://pricelessprovider.com/images/37793.jpg
:sofa:


figured id lighten the mood :rofl:

:rofl: :clap:

[NaeKuh]

platter?
:sofa:


figured id lighten the mood :rofl:

lmao...

I can +1 your comedy with this:
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p73/aigomorla/Personal/tehe.jpg

^im trying to avoid that.... :rofl:

Shazza will probably come in and clean these up... sorry in advance shazza.

[defect9]

Damn, that's one thorough report.

[aoch88]

I think most of the EK products are just crap. Never ending issues from the start. We should stop buying them, 'nuff said.

[zalbard]

Benzalkonium chloride is not based on copper sulfate. It should not create any chance of making a battery out of your water.

In the interest of science, if I happen to have the nickel loss on my block, I'll test it myself when I get my hands back on it. I'll be glad to post the test results here, since we have conflicting views on this issue.

I want to reiterate though-I think he's doing the right thing. We never consider one test conclusive on thermals, so another test on this issue won't hurt. But I'm not gonna sit here and deride a person who is endeavoring to fix this issue. I have the tools to figure out pretty quickly if it's a plating flaw or a galvanic issue (honestly, a microscope will do it if you know what you're looking for) and I'll post pics when I get the opportunity. As my son's in the hospital, it might be a week or two.

If people will be patient, I'll examine one of my own with a microscope and run a few chemical/electrical tests on the water. I think we'll end up with a mix of reasons, personally. Like I said though, he's making good. Accept it for what it is, people.
Please do, I am looking forward to it. Would be very much appreciated.

And once again, to make this clear. If one decides to RMA, the customer pays for both shipping the blocks to EK and back?

[prznar1]

I think most of the EK products are just crap. Never ending issues from the start. We should stop buying them, 'nuff said.

speak for your self only.

its only an issue with one product line, not with whole company. rads, pumps, fittings should still work fine. also copper blocks are also problemless. this will hit EK VERY HARD but will not destroy it.

spoken by not fan of ek at all :D

[aoch88]

You have a point there prznar1 but unfortunately for someone that had multiple issues with EK products, I believe you would think otherwise. It's simple and if you had quite a number of parts with all sorts of silly problems from them, you probably won't be bothered buying EK again :)

[NaeKuh]

speak for your self only.

its only an issue with one product line, not with whole company. rads, pumps, fittings should still work fine. also copper blocks are also problemless. this will hit EK VERY HARD but will not destroy it.

spoken by not fan of ek at all :D


+1

There is nothing wrong with their pump tops.
There dual tops are one of the best u can buy right now even.

And they also have a spinner Bay Res which i have yet to hear any real issue on.

Not to mention the SLI bridge is still a major bling and working bling from eK.

This problem only lies in the Nickle.... which is like less then 5% of what they sell.

And using that 5% to void out the 95% is just silly.

[prznar1]

You have a point there prznar1 but unfortunately for someone that had multiple issues with EK products, I believe you would think otherwise. It's simple and if you had quite a number of parts with all sorts of silly problems from them, you probably won't be bothered buying EK again :)

after multiple problems i would pass on EK anyway :rofl:

[Panthols]

This problem only lies in the Nickle.... which is like less then 5% of what they sell.

And using that 5% to void out the 95% is just silly.

The problem also lies with EK trying to pass the blame on to users and basically tell us what we can and cannot use in our systems. I don't want to purchase anything from a company that can't own up to a mistake they made, and will not be purchasing anything from them due to this issue.

[aoch88]

I can post some photos of Acetal+Nickel blocks warping. The Acetal part actually warped, imagine that crap happening to your block :D

[prznar1]

The problem also lies with EK trying to pass the blame on to users and basically tell us what we can and cannot use in our systems. I don't want to purchase anything from a company that can't own up to a mistake they made, and will not be purchasing anything from them due to this issue.

yes this is strange. but this happend for the very first time from them. would you leave your wife after one argue? dont pass on ek totaly.

[shazza]

Straight and simple here ... links to RRTech are not allowed. No need for discussion on this point.

[wermad]

Extremely disappointed and this point, I'm done with EK :down:

Good thing I bought Watercool gpu blocks this time :) Now to start fixing EK's bad nickel, :idea:

[KingOfsorroW]

So, what are the the coolants that are 100% safe to use with the ek nickel WBs? links please...

[NaeKuh]

The problem also lies with EK trying to pass the blame on to users and basically tell us what we can and cannot use in our systems. I don't want to purchase anything from a company that can't own up to a mistake they made, and will not be purchasing anything from them due to this issue.

This doesnt really help this thread tho...

What were trying to do is not say eK is this, eK is that...
If someone keeps telling you, your wrong... no your wrong... even tho you are wrong, do you think you will feel good?

What were trying to do is tell eK, ummm ok, your half correct, now take what you found out.. and look at it HERE and not THERE.

Then hopping eK will go OH I SEE.
Instead of going... FROM WHAT WE ONLY SEE.

And as i have said, sometimes eddy can not express the best ways in english what he wishes to say.
He types and writes, and even speaks very good english for it being his second language, or even third or fourth.
So sometimes you need to take the words he write very literally as if it was a straight translation, and not interpret what he is trying to say.

[NaeKuh]

Meh.... my picture has played this thread... there is a killer in it.. and not one but several.

[NKrader]

The problem also lies with EK trying to pass the blame on to users and basically tell us what we can and cannot use in our systems. I don't want to purchase anything from a company that can't own up to a mistake they made, and will not be purchasing anything from them due to this issue.

this is my main problem. if i do indeed purchase somthing. and it does end up having an issue am i gona end up s.o.l.? becuase they just blame it on me?... most likely..

is a scary thought that i would rather just avoid the company as a whole rather than wasting what little money i do have.


:down: hate that "no other forums here" rule. hate it on every forum i found it.

LOL.. :shakes:
there is so much more to it than you know. just know it is for a good reason

[Eddy_EK]

Dear Eddy EK

I bought 4 EK's nickel plated blocks ( Supreme HF, Full cover block for evga x58 classified, and two FC580 GTX+ blocks) 2 months ago without knowing about this problems with nickel plating, I discovered all this last week so I've been running my blocks for last 1 and half months now.
After reading this statement I was disappointed that your company will only provide this "special RMAs" until July 31st its obviously puts me and other people with similar situation in a bad spot because if i decide to believe in you and let my system run for about 8-10 months more and after that discover that all my block are ruined, and according to this statement I wont be able to replace them after that.
BTW I'm using Thermochill EC6 and i did not used anything else but that doesn't make me less worried about my blocks.

Srry for bad my English, not my 1st language
If you use EC6 coolant based on our tets and experiences you will not have any problems with nickel plating.



Eddy, i got new nickel blocks (sr-2 and 2 RAM blocks) that i bought for my project.
i dont want to fit them on my board and remove them in few weeks because of flaking.

can i RMA them?
If you use what we recommend, or at least don't use what we don't recommend, you will be fine.



So what happens to the people who have paid an extra premium for the nickel products and opt to have the copper one? Will the reseller refund the difference?

We will deduct the difference from the shipping costs.



Question for Eddy:

I have three EK FC580 nickel-plated blocks that haven't been used yet, but I wish to exchange them for the copper-only versions, can that also be accommodated by this RMA process? I don't care if I get the price difference back, at all. An even exchange is just fine.

If not, I don't know what I'm going to do with my 3 brand new nickel-plated blocks, but they are not going into my watercooling loop.

Thanks

If you want to exchange it we will exchange it without a problem. But if you use coolant with anticorrosion additive based on our experience and tests you will not have any problems!


Thanks for the info Eddy but I do have a few questions for you.

First is regarding the RMA process. What do you anticipate the turn around will be for us here in the US? Where will be sending the block to and will the replacement block be sent once you have received the old one or once verified by the info requested sent with the RMA form. Granted it be from you or the reseller.

Now the other is in regards to the testing that has been done. Has the same test been performed on other nickel plated blocks or plated products from other vendors to further study the affect? If not do you plan on doing so? It may seem crazy to do but this has not occurred with nickel plated blocks form other vendors and if it did they did a hell of a job keeping it quiet. I have been using distilled water and silver for 2 years with other nickel plated blocks and they look as new and shiny as the day I got them.

We will try to make the process as quick as possible and prepare the blocks to be send as soon as we get the blocks back. The US customers will have their blocks shipped from one of US resellers although they ordered from EK directly to save on shipping. Also we will try to arrange that customer will ship to our closest reseller in order to lower shipping costs.



I would like to see the "Institute" perform a test on an EK wb from a vendor to see how good the plating is before hand. It has to be a random vendor with stock and not a hand-picked special one from EK.

edit - link removed by shazza

--MikeP
Only a comment.

In production we have random checks for all important dimensions and qualities of the product. After it gets into assembling line every product goes through numbers of QC points before it gets QC sticker and is packed in the box.
1. Surface visual check
2. G1/4 Threads check
3. Few random mounting thread check
4. Leaking check (2 bar pressure test)
5. Visual inspection and cleaning
6. Product packed in PP bag
7. Product packed in box with QC numbers.
Since the beginning of my watercooling time such cases, as shown on that forum we had exactly 0.
And If ever there was such case and we would be notified we would immediately ask customer to ship the product back to reseller and that he will get the replacement. Because that is how EK policy is.



EK, I just purchased 3x Acetal & nickel blocks for my GTX 580s.

- In order to check and see if corrosion is occuring on my blocks, I'll need to remove the "warranty void if removed" sticker. Will you still honor the RMA proceedures as outlined in the OP?
- Also, if my blocks are OK...I'll need to get an official recommendation for a fluid which can be obtained in the USA. I am not familiar with the options you listed.

Thanks ;)

If you remove warranty void sticker you will only void warranty on sealing. The warranty on material and manufacturing process will of course remain.


Eddy Im glad ur taking the RMA's however your statement makes no sense.

Did it ever occure to you, if you guys are the only one having the problem, then possibly its just you guys, and NOT us?

Take an example at koolance or swiftech even.
Have you heard anyone complain about there nickle plating?
And im fairly sure those of us who are on swiftech and koolance are doing what u are telling us not to do without any ill effects.

And after all the flaking pictures you've seen, your still not saying its flaking?

Sorry if i dont sound civil, but Eddy, it looks like you guys are going around the bush..
Instead of saying stop using this ... stop using that... maybe its best if u guys CHANGE your nickle process to something that works.
Because if u get professional nickle platers come in here and tell you, what you said is a result of trying to cut cost, these scars you have are going to turn into amputations.

Based on our tests and results we can say that these certain additives caused EK nickel plating to fail.


Regarding RMA shipping costs: it is standard in industry. It is same as if your kitchen mixer fails and you have to drive to deliver for repair nad drive again to pick it up after repairing.

Regarding other brands and no damage: EK did tests on EK products. We cannot comment or speculate as why are differences between brands. I would like to reiterate again that results didn't find any mistake in EK products, but it is number of factors which users and EK were not paying attention to because of lack of knowledge. And EK will RMA damaged products. And EK will be on top of things - dispersing newly acquired information and taking care of users.

[prznar1]

And as i have said, sometimes eddy can not express the best ways in english what he wishes to say.
He types and writes, and even speaks very good english for it being his second language, or even third or fourth.
So sometimes you need to take the words he write very literally as if it was a straight translation, and not interpret what he is trying to say.

maybe he got no sense of humor. its pretty common for that part of europe and specialy for all those with german/austria roots (family or something, you know, german grandpa). i know cos im from that part to XD

[aoch88]

If someone keeps telling you, your wrong... no your wrong... even tho you are wrong, do you think you will feel good?


If I kill your parents, will you not tell me I'm wrong but instead trying to console me with nice words, telling me what I did was just not correct? :) Come on buddy, get a life. If it's a product problem then please take more responsibility instead of blaming on the users. If Toyota doesn't recall their cars and everyone ends up crashing with them, do you think it's even fair for the owners?

[Panthols]

yes this is strange. but this happend for the very first time from them. would you leave your wife after one argue? dont pass on ek totaly.

No, I wouldn't, but leaving my wife is a little bit different than choosing not to buy from a certain manufacturer in a niche market. First it was PT Nuke cracking acrylic reservoirs (no other acrylic had problems with this) and now it's silver ruining nickel plating (no other nickel plated blocks have a problem with this). I see a pattern here and I don't particularly like it.


This doesnt really help this thread tho...

What were trying to do is not say eK is this, eK is that...
If someone keeps telling you, your wrong... no your wrong... even tho you are wrong, do you think you will feel good?

What were trying to do is tell eK, ummm ok, your half correct, now take what you found out.. and look at it HERE and not THERE.

Then hopping eK will go OH I SEE.
Instead of going... FROM WHAT WE ONLY SEE.

I'm hoping EK will see that saying "our process is fine, it's your fault but we'll RMA anyway" is not making them any friends. Saying "we were cutting corners with our plating, and we apologize. We are using a different company for this now and everything looks great" would save a lot of customers, and restore some faith.

3 months is a long time, and if you have a LOT of waterblocks and pumps, as I'm sure EK does, setting up 10 loops with common fluids and letting them run for that long and posting results would be great also. We would then have proof that distilled + silver ruins their special nickel plating, instead of "the problems were in this setup, so it must be that" response given. The same should have been done before attacking PT Nuke specifically.

Again, this is starting a trend that I don't really want to see from companies I make purchases from.

[prznar1]

If I kill your parents, will you not tell me I'm wrong but instead trying to console me with nice words, telling me what I did was just not correct? :) Come on buddy, get a life. If it's a product problem then please take more responsibility instead of blaming on the users. If Toyota doesn't recall their cars and everyone ends up crashing with them, do you think it's even fair for the owners?
have you owned a ford at anytime in the past?

search ford with exploading fuel tanks.

now, ford is still here. and look at how tiny EK problem is compared to that.


No, I wouldn't, but leaving my wife is a little bit different than choosing not to buy from a certain manufacturer in a niche market.

same goes for killing parrents comparison
but sure, you can do whatever you want.

[NaeKuh]

Eddy and what about those additives you recommend?

Do you not recall the nightmares they caused on the supreme?
Dont you recall all my supreme testing and the result of what happens from glycol based coolant + injectors?
Dont you figure it would cause nightmares on the HF?

What are you guys going to do then?
Change the HF design so its like the old apogee design where less collection can occur and take step back in watercooling just because you want nickle blocks?

Maybe if you took your results to the plater, and told him look, this has happened because the plating job failed, it might be easier to fix?

Because going back to premixes and those in particular because of the glycol, and having to suffer from collection of mystery gelly, is that what you want your customers to suffer?

[Waterlogged]

Eddy is right but he forgot to mention all the details; it’s true that an electrolyte can cause what we see on the blocks, but what he forgot to mention, is the nickel have to be in close contact with copper in this electrolyte, and the only way it can happen it’s when defective platting expose the copper, that explain why other manufacturers don’t have the same problem , now Ek will replace the block, of course they was damage before been put in the electrolyte, and EK ask you to not use anymore electrolyte to not damage other block with imperfection. All that to cover manufacturer imperfections. .

Nickel plating starts out with a layer of copper (regardless of what the base material is) so the nickel can better adhere to the item being plated. Nickel and copper also are found in the same mines.

Here is some enlightening reading on the relationship between copper and nickel. (link (http://corrosion-doctors.org/MatSelect/corrnickel.htm))

As for this report, the smell of the fud was so strong by page 7 that I had to stop reading it. :shakes:

[aoch88]

have you owned a ford at anytime in the past?

search ford with exploading fuel tanks.

now, ford is still here. and look at how tiny EK problem is compared to that.

That's a good example and this shows what's in store when manufacturers are not being responsible :) That's the exact point on what I'm trying to say.

[Roadhog]

I bet it would be easier and cheaper just to go buy some nickel stripper and strip your affected blocks back down to copper.

[NaeKuh]

Oh god seriously people...

If its not a supportive or contradiction to eK's statement, please dont post.

If your not going to do future purchases on eK, well, best of luck to you.
eK has a lot of stuff which u cant find on other vendors, so have fun cutting an Arm off in Liquid cooling.

Lets leave personal reflection statements out people, and go straight scientific debate.
If your statement holds no information merit besides your personal feelings, dont post.

We left all the jokes in page 1 before eddy replied...

[MrToad]

Eddy and what about those additives you recommend?

Do you not recall the nightmares they caused on the supreme?
Dont you recall all my supreme testing and the result of what happens from glycol based coolant + injectors?
Dont you figure it would cause nightmares on the HF?

What are you guys going to do then?
Change the HF design so its like the old apogee design where less collection can occur and take step back in watercooling just because you want nickle blocks?

Maybe if you took your results to the plater, and told him look, this has happened because the plating job failed, it might be easier to fix?

Because going back to premixes and those in particular because of the glycol, and having to suffer from collection of mystery gelly, is that what you want your customers to suffer?

Agreed. I'm not taking chances with premixes... I've run EK blocks (2x5870 and a HF in this build) with silver Tygon for 5 months and I haven't had issues. I know this is anecdotal, but I'd rather take my chances with the silver than with premixes...

[Vapor]

:down: hate that "no other forums here" rule. hate it on every forum i found it.To clarify, it is no other forums/sites/organizations run by people who have been banned from XS. Once they're banned here, they no longer have a voice here; they cannot be linked and cannot be referenced or discussed. We're making a small exception on discussion just to clarify our stance. All further posts on the matter will be removed.

[Aedubber]

So eddy the statement you made quote on quote nickel is nickel , then why is your nickel need special treatment but yet other vendors nickel does not need special treatment ? Just going by what you stated , I mean if nickel is nickel right ?

[Annirak]

To clarify, it is no other forums/sites/organizations run by people who have been banned from XS. Once they're banned here, they no longer have a voice here; they cannot be linked and cannot be referenced or discussed. We're making a small exception on discussion just to clarify our stance. All further posts on the matter will be removed.

Thank you for explaining that, Vapor. In this particular instance, it's unfortunate that this policy excludes some rather pertinent information which, in turn, degrades the quality of discussion here from what it could be, but I understand the reasons for the policy.

[prznar1]

Thank you for explaining that, Vapor. In this particular instance, it's unfortunate that this policy excludes some rather pertinent information which, in turn, degrades the quality of discussion here from what it could be, but I understand the reasons for the policy.

true but pointless. look at that from xs point of view. they have to hold the line, otherwise all those "bad" (does not matter if they were bad or not) things will just takeover xs world. two edged blade. vapor said what he had to and eot.

now lets go back to EK.
Eddy pls say something about plating, not only about coolants.

[KingOfsorroW]

Eddy_EK
By "EC6" do you mean this coolant:
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/thec6noncoco.html

[prznar1]

i would guess that he is talking about all thermochill ec6 line. at least i hope.

[NaeKuh]

Eddy_EK
By "EC6" do you mean this coolant:
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/thec6noncoco.html

to be honest it would be any glycol based coolant.

Feser + Hydr-x + Pentosin, Zerex, anything which has (ethly/propyl) glycol dosed at greater then 33% concentration.

This is very unacceptable to people running injector style cpu blocks.

This would force people to run separate cpu only loops so they could mix loop coolant.... meaning cpu -> distilled gpu->premix, or your own mix.

This would also mean u could not use a nickle HF and not expect long running times on a recomended coolant, because you will get gelly buildup over time from using said coolant.

So its opening a new can of worms for eK, to sidestep the main problem.

[Vapor]

now lets go back to EK.
Eddy pls say something about plating, not only about coolants.:up:

I also have a question about stainless steel in the loop. DDCs and D5s (and various other parts) have wetted stainless steel....is that okay? It's a dissimilar metal just like silver (not sure about its standard electrode potential). In your own Supreme HF blocks, you have wetted stainless steel in direct contact with the wetted copper/nickel-plated base, completing a circuit and opening the door to galvanic corrosion (not just 'crevice corrosion'), is that okay?

Speaking of standard electrode potential, I've been under the impression that silver and nickel are much more similar with their Anodic Index/Standard Calomel Electrode than what is listed on page 15 of the long report. My reference: http://www.corrosionist.com/galvanic_corrosion_chart.htm

[Phaseshift]

If you want to exchange it we will exchange it without a problem. But if you use coolant with anticorrosion additive based on our experience and tests you will not have any problems!

So what can I do then if I just use say Mayhems Dye with my distilled, what can I use so that my blocks won't be affected and still have protection since using PTNuke and Killcoil is not an option anymore?

My second question is:

Will you guys be sending resellers new blocks to replace their current stock?

[prznar1]

to be honest it would be any glycol based coolant.

Feser + Hydr-x + Pentosin dosed at greater then 33% concentration.

...
So its opening a new can of worms for eK, to sidestep the main problem.

from what i know that gelly is not made only by glycol, its a combination of few things and ec6 is free from gelly. so not all glycol based coolants will do that.


Will you guys be sending resellers new blocks to replace their current stock?

i will take a guess on that. it will not happen. issue is known, solution is here. so far it is the best... just avoid silver and pt nuke.

[NaeKuh]

from what i know that gelly is not made only by glycol, its a combination of few things and ec6 is free from gelly. so not all glycol based coolants will do that.

dont get me started on premix.
If you dont know me, i have a supreme hate for premix. (more then my D5 hatred)
Why? Because they are all CRAP.

Its quick way for a vendor to make money... Distilled + antifreeze + marketing label = PROFIT.
And the special ingredient which they use is some magical ratio of mix with color.

Seriously dont, I was one of the first in the stand against premix, and we won...
Also i bet i can make that thing gump up.

Heat + Pressure + time = buildup.

Now if you want to run a piss low flow loop, dont let me stop you.
But at that point id rather run copper straight blocks, then have to accept a premix.

[prznar1]

kk NaeKuh :D as you wish XD i just have a different point of view on premixes

i also missed something. good for EK that they will refund price tag of copper blocks.

and my friends are saying that i know english very well....

[Phaseshift]

from what i know that gelly is not made only by glycol, its a combination of few things and ec6 is free from gelly. so not all glycol based coolants will do that.



i will take a guess on that. it will not happen. issue is known, solution is here. so far it is the best... just avoid silver and pt nuke.

so what can I replace PT/Silver for?

I like EK, they can still correct this matter and I hope they take the proper steps. The community is screaming at them, they just need to listen.

[NaeKuh]

so what can I replace PT/Silver for?

I like EK, they can still correct this matter and I hope they take the proper steps. The community is screaming at them, they just need to listen.

you cant... thats the thing.. you need a corrosion inhibitor.

Because the plating failed, and the only way to fix it, is fix the plating.
If the plating didnt fail, it would give u a layer on top of the copper, so no electrolyte could go between the exposed metal.

Obviously that isn't happening.

[Odai]

Eddy, thanks for taking the time to post here.

With regards to the RMA process, as I already have a loop set up with an EK Supreme HF and am not planning to flush it until September, where does this leave me? Do I have any choice other than tearing down my loop and inspecting the block before the July 31st deadline?

The aforementioned CPU block also showed signs of damage before it was every put anywhere near any water. See the horizontal lines and discolouration towards the bottom of the micro-fins.

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x255/Odaik/d3051768.jpg

I've showed this photo on the forums a few times, and submitted it to EK's technical support.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=268292

You said yourself there wouldn't be any issue.

In light of these recent problems, I am now concerned that those marks are indeed the corroded Nickel. If so, how has that happened considering no contact with water had taken place?

I have an FC-460 block too with the same issue:

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x255/Odaik/6039b1f7.jpg

Is that the corrosion as well (the reddish brown marks in the centre of the photo)?

That block had only been used in a loop for a few weeks (again, distilled+CuSO4). The marks do not rub off, at all.

As the issue is specifically only occuring with EK's Nickel products, but not other vendors, shouldn't you be at least offering customer's refunds for defective blocks so that they have the choice of going for another vendor's products, instead of your own (which would rule out the common distilled water + CuSO4 choice for coolant)?

I have a third EK block here, the FC-560. It is unused. Can I safely assume it will suffer from the same problems if I also use distilled water and CuSO4 based biocides with it?

[prznar1]

so what can I replace PT/Silver for?

I like EK, they can still correct this matter and I hope they take the proper steps. The community is screaming at them, they just need to listen.

so far ec6 or at fsomething premixes. atleast as the eddy is saying. but you accualy cannot change it. there are even a users with failing nickle palting that were not using silver or pt nuke. it may happen with anything.

sure, everything can be undone. just a matter of will.

[NaeKuh]

so far ec6 or at fsomething premixes. atleast as the eddy is saying. but you accualy cannot change it. there are even a users with failing nickle palting that were not using silver or pt nuke. it may happen with anything.

sure, everything can be undone. just a matter of will.

You see thats what confused me even more... copper blocks are fine?

Then obviously the problem lies in the nickle.
Then if the nickle is reacting... and galvanic charts state nickle can not react in the level's we saw... well by deduction... is the nickle even nickle?

Or whats in the plating solution... did someone spill coffee in the acid bath?

[Phaseshift]

you cant... thats the thing.. you need a corrosion inhibitor.

Because the plating failed, and the only way to fix it, is fix the plating.
If the plating didnt fail, it would give u a layer on top of the copper, so no electrolyte could go between the exposed metal.

Obviously that isn't happening.


so far ec6 or at fsomething premixes. atleast as the eddy is saying. but you accualy cannot change it. there are even a users with failing nickle palting that were not using silver or pt nuke. it may happen with anything.

sure, everything can be undone. just a matter of will.


sigh...well I guess I'll just have to put off my WC then, I'm rooting for you EK, its not too late! I want you to take my money, just as long as we fix these issues hehe

[NaeKuh]

sigh...well I guess I'll just have to put off my WC then, I'm rooting for you EK, its not too late! I want you to take my money, just as long as we fix these issues hehe

if u bought them at sidewinder... return the blocks now.

Gary said he would refund full credit no questions asked on nickle ek products bought b4 60 days.

Your best option is return, exchange, and not worry about bs premix coolant.

Koolance - Aqua Computers - Swiftech - Bitspower - DD

Has excellent nickle that u dont need to use BS premix coolant.

the nightmares with premix do not justify the extra bling eK brings no matter what angle you look at it.

Im sorry eddy, but if ur forcing us to use aftermarket coolant, we will goto another vendor.
So Fix your plating.. or you will lose all your nickle block sales.

[KingOfsorroW]

to be honest it would be any glycol based coolant.

Feser + Hydr-x + Pentosin, Zerex, anything which has (ethly/propyl) glycol dosed at greater then 33% concentration.

This is very unacceptable to people running injector style cpu blocks.

This would force people to run separate cpu only loops so they could mix loop coolant.... meaning cpu -> distilled gpu->premix, or your own mix.

This would also mean u could not use a nickle HF and not expect long running times on a recomended coolant, because you will get gelly buildup over time from using said coolant.

So its opening a new can of worms for eK, to sidestep the main problem.

So, that's a gelly stuff Ek recommends to use? Like FluidXP? But it SUCKS... when I went from gelly fluid xp to water - I won about 5 degrees in temps several years ago...:shakes:
Are there coolants with a more fluid (watery) consistence that would suit ek's requirements?

[NaeKuh]

Are there coolants with a more fluid (watery) consistence that would suit ek's requirements?

distilled + water wetter, but that will leave a nasty coaty slim on everything....

MEH...

Just dont get nickle EK blocks...

THIS PROBLEM ONLY LIES IN EK NICKLE U GUYS.

[prznar1]

You see thats what confused me even more... copper blocks are fine?

Then obviously the problem lies in the nickle.
Then if the nickle is reacting... and galvanic charts state nickle can not react in the level's we saw... well by deduction... is the nickle even nickle?

Or whats in the plating solution... did someone spill coffee in the acid bath?
i just rememberd something that i have seen years ago. and it was very similiar to the ek problems. guys that were having a problem knew that its a problem with plating proces without any tests. before going in to the plating shop they said what is causing the problem, and when they entered it they found all bad things with first look.

it is a nickle, but just done with wrong palting process.

[zalbard]

So, is anything going to happen on EK's part? Something to improve nickel plating process, slow down corrosion, improve durability of blocks?

[mcj66106]

Nickel plating starts out with a layer of copper (regardless of what the base material is) so the nickel can better adhere to the item being plated. Nickel and copper also are found in the same mines.

Here is some enlightening reading on the relationship between copper and nickel. (link (http://corrosion-doctors.org/MatSelect/corrnickel.htm))

As for this report, the smell of the fud was so strong by page 7 that I had to stop reading it. :shakes:

Why would a copper block need to be copper plated in the first place? Use some common scene please.

[KingOfsorroW]

distilled + water wetter, but that will leave a nasty coaty slim on everything....

MEH...

Just dont get nickle EK blocks...

THIS PROBLEM ONLY LIES IN EK NICKLE U GUYS.

I know it's only ek-related problem - hence the reason i'm posting here. I run 4 ek nickel blocks in the system - one mobo fullcover wb and three gpu blocks.... really don't want to tear the system apart and change the blocks.
Could you link me to some water wetter you were talking about? That's even better than another luquid since I don't have to drain all of my loops...

[Phaseshift]

I dont know much about nickle and the plating process but can we take our own blocks to a place that does plating and have them do it? How much would the cost be for something like that?

[NaeKuh]

I run 4 ek nickel blocks in the system - one mobo fullcover wb and three gpu blocks.... really don't want to tear the system apart and change the blocks.
Could you link me to some water wetter you were talking about? That's even better than another luquid since I don't have to drain all of my loops...

do you have pets? children?

Because if you do, your really and honestly better off going a proply recipe as its less toxic..


I dont know much about nickle and the plating process but can we take our own blocks to a place that does plating and have them do it? How much would the cost be for something like that?

yes u can do that, and they charge per batch.
Typically its somewhere between 5-10 blocks per batch with single pricing.

That is why i asked u guys should clump together and do a batch quality nickle job, if ur insistent on keeping the blocks.

[prznar1]

I dont know much about nickle and the plating process but can we take our own blocks to a place that does plating and have them do it? How much would the cost be for something like that?

here in poland not that much, dunno about US or other parts of world, but im sure that in US it should be fairly cheap to redo the nickle plating.

[vulcZ]

This sucks :(

I just installed a new 6990 with the EK FC nickel block and now I'm worried whether or not I'm going to run into problems. I didn't bother breaking the seal and look at the internals because at the time I thought the seal meant your block warranty would be void, and not just the "seal" warranty. Either way, I'm running distilled water with a biocide in my loop. No killcoil and no other additives, with Primochill LRT tubing. *knocks on wood* here's hoping I don't run into any major problems!

[NaeKuh]

There was this one guy on the forum who was trying to setup a plasma spray.

Man i wish that went though, because he said with it, you could plate anything, including plastic.

I have a lot of things i wanted plated ... and i believe he wouldnt of charged and arm and a leg for. :P


This sucks :(

I just installed a new 6990 with the EK FC nickel block and now I'm worried whether or not I'm going to run into problems. I didn't bother breaking the seal and look at the internals because at the time I thought the seal meant your block warranty would be void, and not just the "seal" warranty. Either way, I'm running distilled water with a biocide in my loop. No killcoil and no other additives, with Primochill LRT tubing. *knocks on wood* here's hoping I don't run into any major problems!

The problem is something is corroding in the loop, and you have no anticorrosive.
Its only a matter of time b4 the nickle fails, if it fails, or a impurity in the nickle area where it fails, once again, if it fails, and nothing but an anticorrosive will save you.

[Phaseshift]

There was this one guy on the forum who was trying to setup a plasma spray.

Man i wish that went though, because he said with it, you could plate anything, including plastic.

I have a lot of things i wanted plated ... and i believe he wouldnt of charged and arm and a leg for. :P



The problem is something is corroding in the loop, and you have no anticorrosive.
Its only a matter of time b4 the nickle fails, if it fails, or a impurity in the nickle area where it fails, once again, if it fails, and nothing but an anticorrosive will save you.


man if he can do that...my bank account will be screaming once again because that means I'll have to go through with my WC build lol

[mcj66106]

Nickel plating starts out with a layer of copper (regardless of what the base material is) so the nickel can better adhere to the item being plated. Nickel and copper also are found in the same mines.

Here is some enlightening reading on the relationship between copper and nickel. (link (http://corrosion-doctors.org/MatSelect/corrnickel.htm))

As for this report, the smell of the fud was so strong by page 7 that I had to stop reading it. :shakes:


Why would a copper block need to be copper plated in the first place? Use some common scene please.

Please answer the question if you have an answer to my simple question.

[Buckeye]

Therefore until further notice EK Water Blocks Company recommends, not to use distilled water with silver in the loop in combination with nickel-plated blocks, nor additives based on Copper Sulphate.
[B][COLOR="DarkOrange"]
EK recommends only coolants with anticorrosion additive, although our internal test systems of pure distilled water have been found without any problem in 2 months test period. EK Team would like to ask you to kindly spread this information as we would like our users to continue having excellent experiences with EK products.

Ok I am really confused here. Yes I am a water cooling noob but thinking about doing a setup soon. Everyone I have asked has said to me use only distilled water, a kill coil and PT nuke, no dyes or other additives for the long life of a 24/7 running water system.

So now we drop the kill coil and use store purchased coolants <shrug>

[prznar1]

guys, why you will not go totaly wicked and - chrome - your blocks XD most of you are in US, chopper and hot rod motherland :D

[Rudster816]

1. Why have no other manufactures had issues with users using these additives?
2. Why have some blocks shown issues before the blocks were ever run in a loop? Notably whats going on in the picture that Gary used in his statement.
3. How will users with blocks that have Acetal tops check there blocks without voiding there warranty? I broke the seal on my X58 Classified FC block to check it, so is the warranty void forever on it?

Sorry if any of these questions have been asked before, I haven't gone through this thread yet, but will soon.


I'm pretty 50/50 on this solution. On one hand, users will be able to get their blocks replaced through their vendors\EK directly, which is great. On the other hand, I feel that EK did have (or still has) a plating issue. I do hope that if this is the case, that they have secretly fixed it. I use to hold EK in higher regards then what I feel they now deserve in response to this. Depending on what happens in the next few weeks\months, this could easily change for the good\worse. Either way, I do hope EK has made some changed to the plating process, rather or not they will admit to it, because from all of the evidence I have seen, this issue seems isolated to EK blocks only.

[zalbard]

3. How will users with blocks that have Acetal tops check there blocks without voiding there warranty? I broke the seal on my X58 Classified FC block to check it, so is the warranty void forever on it?
Opening blocks does not void warranty.

1. Why have no other manufactures had issues with users using these additives?
2. Why have some blocks shown issues before the blocks were ever run in a loop? Notably whats going on in the picture that Gary used in his statement.

Good questions...

[prava]

Ok I am really confused here. Yes I am a water cooling noob but thinking about doing a setup soon. Everyone I have asked has said to me use only distilled water, a kill coil and PT nuke, no dyes or other additives for the long life of a 24/7 running water system.

Everyone recommends those solutions because they have been proved totally safe...until now as per EK's statement.

So, my logic says that if that stuff has been ok for a ton of time (and they are still with all other vendors except EK) then it still is: and thus there is something else going on here with EK platting.

[Aedubber]

Ok I am really confused here. Yes I am a water cooling noob but thinking about doing a setup soon. Everyone I have asked has said to me use only distilled water, a kill coil and PT nuke, no dyes or other additives for the long life of a 24/7 running water system.

So now we drop the kill coil and use store purchased coolants <shrug>


No , what you do is not buy Ek.nickel. blocks , problem.solved ... all.other vendors don't have this problem .

[NKrader]

3. How will users with blocks that have Acetal tops check there blocks without voiding there warranty? I broke the seal on my X58 Classified FC block to check it, so is the warranty void forever on it?


:shakes:

and nae sounds like you need a hug.

i must really agree with you on this one. i would rather quit watercooling than use premix..

well aquacoomputer here i come ;)

[KingOfsorroW]

do you have pets? children?

Because if you do, your really and honestly better off going a proply recipe as its less toxic..

Thanks, that helped. So the only real option is to use the gelly luquids?

[NaeKuh]

So now we drop the kill coil and use store purchased coolants <shrug>

NO because that opens a totally new can of worms, for the termite problem you have.
I call it termite because something is eatting something.

Best solution right now, is get rid of the eattable source.. ie... eK Nickle, and replace it with another vendor's nickle.. ie.. Swiftech, Koolance, DD, AquaCom, Bitspower.... someone who has a more and better refined plating process, and problem is solved.

OR...

Take your blocks to a local plater... have him do a batch job on all the blocks you wanted plated... go out on vacation with GF for the weekend... come back with done and completed blocks... and then your back in happy happy land.

And this is what is pissing me off... because eK is saying no its not the nickle, everyone is thinking all vendors' nickle is bad.
NO, EK HAS A BAD NICKLE SOLEY, NO OTHER VENDOR HAS THIS TYPE OF ISSUE.

[prznar1]

all anwseres are few pages back. but well.

problem is only with EK nickle blocks, and no other. ek copper or all other brands dont have any kind of corrosion issue (atleast if you will not mix them with aluminium blocks or radiators XD)
mostlikely its the nickle plating process problem, not coolants.
seal is for leaking warranty. if you will broke the seal, and block will start to leak, you will not be helped. all other issues will be covered by warranty.

[Eddy_EK]

Eddy_EK
By "EC6" do you mean this coolant:
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/thec6noncoco.html

Yes, we used this coolant in our tests.

[prznar1]

Eddy, are you still going to blame the coolants?

[Phaseshift]

I'm going to go see if we have any vendors over at OCN who can do a plating process and have them get back to me. Unfortunately my yelp search in the Los Angeles area turned nothing but one review and I don't trust one reviews lol, why am I even looking? I haven't even purchased my EK blocks yet...I subconsciously want to spend money on this addiction....

[theseeker]

Great, now I have 5 nickel paper weights!

[prznar1]

i will say this one more time. why you will not go crazy and chrome your blocks? :) it could be way easier to find someone who can do that.

[Phaseshift]

i will say this one more time. why you will not go crazy and chrome your blocks? :) it could be way easier to find someone who can do that.

I dont want that much bling...its going to be like pimp my ride inside the case if I do go chrome...:rofl:

[NaeKuh]

I'm going to go see if we have any vendors over at OCN who can do a plating process and have them get back to me. Unfortunately my yelp search in the Los Angeles area turned nothing but one review and I don't trust one reviews lol, why am I even looking? I haven't even purchased my EK blocks yet...I subconsciously want to spend money on this addiction....

message iandh, he works near apple valley, and probably would know someone within 1:30 hour driving range from LA. :D


Great, now I have 5 nickel paper weights!

You live right smack near Bei Fei...

So Message him, and im 1000% sure he can take care of ya.

[KingOfsorroW]

Yes, we used this coolant in our tests.

Allright, thanks! (lol) And What about the timeframe of using it? Should I change it every 3-4months, or I just fill the system and forget about it for two years?

[prznar1]

I dont want that much bling...its going to be like pimp my ride inside the case if I do go chrome...:rofl:

and i thought that in nowadays watercooling is all about bling :ROTF:

[mcj66106]

Waterlogged are you ever going to answer my simple question. Why would you need to plate a copper block with copper? To me that statement is showing your true knowledge of the subject.

[NaeKuh]

Allright, thanks! (lol) And What about the timeframe of using it? Should I change it every 3-4months, or I just fill the system and forget about it for two years?

ur best tearing your system down... seriously...

Taking all your blocks to a plater...

Then asking eK for replacement Orings - instead of RMA.

Have your blocks replated... if u do all of them, it shouldnt be more then 100 dollars for everything..

And then reinstall using new orings..

Stay away from premix! :down:
Its opening another can of super fail... trust me on this.

[coolmiester]

RE: the return procedure – maybe the main retailers around the world could maybe consider accepting the returns on behalf of the end user and holding them all at their particular locations then return them in one large shipment rather than having the individual end user ship them direct to EK.

Then EK could have all returns sent out direct to the end user at his expense which would eliminate quite a bit of valuable vendor time and would at least show a bit of good will on EK’s behalf.

In fact other than scrap value, i honesty don’t see what good these returns will do for EK so why not bite the bullet and accept pictorial evidence to eliminate the costly returns procedure to the end user and ship them new blocks as most are having to pull systems apart in their own time and expense which fundamentally isn’t their problem to begin with.

Either way, no doubt this is going to cost EK a fair price so why don’t you do the right thing by the very people that got the EK brand to where it is today (well a couple of months ago) and offer new blocks at your own expense.

Seriously Eddy, you need an English speaking PR to stop this becoming one of, if not the most disastrous PR disasters i’ve seen in my 10+ years of watercooling and at this point, i’m honestly not sure you are aware of how bad this actually looks for the EK brand whether it be from a long time user, or potential new one.

[prznar1]

Waterlogged are you ever going to answer my simple question. Why would you need to plate a copper block with copper? To me that statement is showing your true knowledge of the subject.

simple. cover oxidized bare copper to get a fresh clean surface. its like painting a car, you need a base paint before go into colour painting.

[theseeker]

RE: the return procedure – maybe the main retailers around the world could maybe consider accepting the returns on behalf of the end user and holding them all at their particular locations then return them in one large shipment rather than having the individual end user ship them direct to EK.

Then EK could have all returns sent out direct to the end user at his expense which would eliminate quite a bit of valuable vendor time and would at least show a bit of good will on EK’s behalf.

In fact other than scrap value, i honesty don’t see what good these returns will do for EK so why not bite the bullet and accept pictorial evidence to eliminate the costly returns procedure to the end user and ship them new blocks as most are having to pull systems apart in their own time and expense which fundamentally isn’t their problem to begin with.

Either way, no doubt this is going to cost EK a fair price so why don’t you do the right thing by the very people that got the EK brand to where it is today (well a couple of months ago) and offer new blocks at your own expense.

Seriously Eddy, you need an English speaking PR to stop this becoming one of, if not the most disastrous PR disasters i’ve seen in my 10+ years of watercooling and at this point, i’m honestly not sure you are aware of how bad this actually looks for the EK brand whether it be from a long time user, or potential new one.

Well said! +1

[Rudster816]

Opening blocks does not void warranty.



So the stickers that say 'Warranty Void if Removed' and run across the Acetal\Copper line can be cut across that line to remove the top? Im not trying to sound sarcastic, I'm not familiar with EK's RMA policy, and I would find that odd.

I find it funny that some people think that nickel plated EK blocks are useless. An acid bath would remove the nickel plating, and you could keep it like that, or have some other place nickel plate it for you. You shouldn't have to do this, but the block's are most definitely not paper weights. Hell, you could sell them for copper scrap :ROTF:

[Aedubber]

i will say this one more time. why you will not go crazy and chrome your blocks? :) it could be way easier to find someone who can do that.

That's already been done on blocks so relax yourself cheech..

[NaeKuh]

Then EK could have all returns sent out direct to the end user at his expense which would eliminate quite a bit of valuable vendor time and would at least show a bit of good will on EK’s behalf.

like an advance RMA?

That sounds good...

Or at the very least free oring mail out, if you decide to plate it yourself.
Because i honestly dont think they are going to fix it you guys.

[Buckeye]

Everyone recommends those solutions because they have been proved totally safe...until now as per EK's statement.

So, my logic says that if that stuff has been ok for a ton of time (and they are still with all other vendors except EK) then it still is: and thus there is something else going on here with EK platting.


NO because that opens a totally new can of worms, for the termite problem you have.
I call it termite because something is eatting something.

Best solution right now, is get rid of the eattable source.. ie... eK Nickle, and replace it with another vendor's nickle.. ie.. Swiftech, Koolance, DD, AquaCom, Bitspower.... someone who has a more and better refined plating process, and problem is solved.

OR...

Take your blocks to a local plater... have him do a batch job on all the blocks you wanted plated... go out on vacation with GF for the weekend... come back with done and completed blocks... and then your back in happy happy land.

And this is what is pissing me off... because eK is saying no its not the nickle, everyone is thinking all vendors' nickle is bad.
NO, EK HAS A BAD NICKLE SOLEY, NO OTHER VENDOR HAS THIS TYPE OF ISSUE.

Thank you guys for putting some perspective into this for some of us who haven't done these things before :up:

[prznar1]

In fact other than scrap value, i honesty don’t see what good these returns will do for EK so why not bite the bullet and accept pictorial evidence to eliminate the costly returns procedure to the end user and ship them new blocks as most are having to pull systems apart in their own time and expense which fundamentally isn’t their problem to begin with.

those blocks are not broken or something. all is wrong with them is plating, that can be repaired. why would EK trow away all those blocks and made new? that would be much more idiotic thing then blaming coolants ATM.

[Vapor]

So the stickers that say 'Warranty Void if Removed' and run across the Acetal\Copper line can be cut across that line to remove the top? Im not trying to sound sarcastic, I'm not familiar with EK's RMA policy, and I would find that odd.

Yeah, you can cut/break the "Warranty Void if Removed" stickers without affecting the warranty. The sticker means it was checked for leaks (and doesn't leak).

[Waterlogged]

Waterlogged are you ever going to answer my simple question. Why would you need to plate a copper block with copper? To me that statement is showing your true knowledge of the subject.

My, aren't we a bit impatient? :shakes::rolleyes:

It's simple, the copper plating process fills in small imperfections that the polishing process doesn't get rid of.


...and as for chrome plated parts, you still need to copper plate and nickel plate the parts before adding the chrome layer. ;)

[Phaseshift]

Yeah, you can cut/break the "Warranty Void if Removed" stickers without affecting the warranty. The sticker means it was checked for leaks (and doesn't leak).

Yes I believe Eddy stated that it will only void the seal warranty as in leaks

[zalbard]

So the stickers that say 'Warranty Void if Removed' and run across the Acetal\Copper line can be cut across that line to remove the top? Im not trying to sound sarcastic, I'm not familiar with EK's RMA policy, and I would find that odd.
See page 2 of this thread...

Warranty void sticker on the blocks ensures the water blocks is leak-proof out-of-the-box. Breaking the orange/black warranty seal does not void the warranty of your water block.

[Sparky]

Waterlogged are you ever going to answer my simple question. Why would you need to plate a copper block with copper? To me that statement is showing your true knowledge of the subject.

People don't live on the forums, give some time :rolleyes:

(and no comments from the peanut gallery about ME living on the forums... regardless of how true it may be! :rofl:)

[OC Maximus]

going back to premixes and those in particular because of the glycol, and having to suffer from collection of mystery gelly
EK LTx + Pre-Mix (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=4871412&postcount=38) did not work out too well for me :shakes:

[mcj66106]

My, aren't we a bit impatient? :shakes::rolleyes:

It's simple, the copper plating process fills in small imperfections that the polishing process doesn't get rid of.


...and as for chrome plated parts, you still need to copper plate and nickel plate the parts before adding th chrome layer. ;)

Wrong answer. Isn't that what the acid bath is for? Chemical cleaning? If your going to plate nickel then chrome over copper you do not need to plate the copper with copper. You fail!!!!!!!!

[zalbard]

Wrong answer. Isn't that what the acid bath is for? Chemical cleaning? If your going to plate nickel then chrome over copper you do not need to plate the copper with copper.
Filling imperfections =/= cleaning.
And FYI this is exactly how Swiftech plates their blocks. :rolleyes:

For reference, our plating consists in 3 "coats":

1/ Copper: thickness: 0.004mm
2/ Nickel: thickness: 0.005mm
3/ Chrome: thickness: 0.05mm
See?

You fail!!!!!!!!
Self-inflicted.

[KingOfsorroW]

ur best tearing your system down... seriously...

Taking all your blocks to a plater...

Then asking eK for replacement Orings - instead of RMA.

Have your blocks replated... if u do all of them, it shouldnt be more then 100 dollars for everything..

And then reinstall using new orings..

Stay away from premix! :down:
Its opening another can of super fail... trust me on this.
I do, I just want to have all options listed.

[prznar1]

EK LTx + Pre-Mix (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=4871412&postcount=38) did not work out too well for me :shakes:

try something else then feser :P

[Vapor]

Let's keep our manners in mind, guys. ;)

No "you fail" or anything like that, please.

[NaeKuh]

Wrong answer. Isn't that what the acid bath is for? Chemical cleaning? If your going to plate nickel then chrome over copper you do not need to plate the copper with copper. You fail!!!!!!!!

it really depends on the process, and if it was electro plating or not.

And if it was electro plating, then why is it flaking?
Because electroplating is supposed to have extreme surface adhesion when done properly.

[Annirak]

For reference, our plating consists in 3 "coats":

1/ Copper: thickness: 0.004mm
2/ Nickel: thickness: 0.005mm
3/ Chrome: thickness: 0.05mm

50um of Cr! Wow. No wonder they don't have problems.

[NaeKuh]

50um of Cr! Wow. No wonder they don't have problems.

this is why i said swiftech has one hell of a tank plating.

[vulcZ]

The problem is something is corroding in the loop, and you have no anticorrosive.
Its only a matter of time b4 the nickle fails, if it fails, or a impurity in the nickle area where it fails, once again, if it fails, and nothing but an anticorrosive will save you.

Well damn :(

I guess my next step is to find some kind of reputable additive for my loop (if there is any). Or I can just cross my finger and hope my block was properly plated :D

[NaeKuh]

Or eK should play a reputable retailer.. ie.. sidewinders, to take all the RMA's and have have them replate it stateside and mail them back out.

I figure cross shipping and expense wise, that is probably the cheapest solution, because as it stands, i dont think anyone will trust eK nickle until they did a big time fix on there nickle plating process.

[Phaseshift]

I cannot speculate about other products. And second is that we did not change anything within our manufacturing process. We thoroughly checked everything after nickel plating problems occurred and we did not find anything changed about nickel plating process. But for your information here is a bit of trivia: It seems that problems with products come from USA and Australia and almost none from Europe. I assure you that we are sending products from same product line and from the same batches to all continents. And before anyone attacks me about insinuating: this is just a fact. A fact that puzzles us.
I will try to stay with facts because I see this is the only way to come to the end of this problem. And we will come to the end of this problem and we will support our users.

The thing is that this issue is very complex we are doing all we can to find a solution for all of us, so please feel free to give any facts which could help us to get the big picture.

I'm going to order my parts from europe and hope I don't get the bad batch hehe, does aquatuning ship from Europe even though they have an US/CA site?

[NaeKuh]

I'm going to order my parts from europe and hope I don't get the bad batch hehe, does aquatuning ship from Europe even though they have an US/CA site?

AT ships everything in EU from what i understood.
That is why we US people have to pay a premium unless we meet a $80 min. which then turns to $6 shipping.

Oh im sure AT could offer some plating jobs as well, and could fix this mess for you guys in the EU.

Just point them to this thread.. and im positive, they will be on it.

[XiraN]

Why would you plate a copper block with a separate layer of copper, pre-nickle?? Or is that copper coat on top of the existing copper block done to hide a much lower purity of copper in the base plate? Otherwise that doesn't make any sense.

[Annirak]

I'm going to order my parts from europe and hope I don't get the bad batch hehe, does aquatuning ship from Europe even though they have an US/CA site?
Looks like:

Orders which are placed after 01:00am CST (8:00GTM) via „ UPS Express fast lane “ will be shipped at the next day from Germany.

[NaeKuh]

Why would you plate a copper block with a separate layer of copper, pre-nickle?? Or is that copper coat on top of the existing copper block done to hide a much lower purity of copper in the base plate? Otherwise that doesn't make any sense.

Sigh...


Yes the entire copper base is plated, and thus is in contact with the coolant.

Our bases are not nickel plated, they are chrome plated. It's a bit more expensive, but it looks much whiter than nickel that has yelowish reflects.

Knock on wood, we haven't had any complaints about our plating coming off to this date. All I can say in general is that pre-treatment (cleaning/etching) is considered absolutely critical for a durable plating and preventing peel-off etc..

For reference, our plating consists in 3 "coats":

1/ Copper: thickness: 0.004mm
2/ Nickel: thickness: 0.005mm
3/ Chrome: thickness: 0.05mm


ENOUGH ok?

Its done... and if you read people told you why.

Now lets keep on track please.

[MrToad]

Or eK should play a reputable retailer.. ie.. sidewinders, to take all the RMA's and have have them replate it stateside and mail them back out.

I figure cross shipping and expense wise, that is probably the cheapest solution, because as it stands, i dont think anyone will trust eK nickle until they did a big time fix on there nickle plating process.

Actually on paper that doesn't look like a bad idea...

Not getting into arguing whether EK's plater is this or isn't that, is just from a logistics point of view.

Getting the blocks re-plated "locally" surely is more cost/time efficient than shipping the blocks to Slovenia from all around the world?

As you point out I'm sure resellers know where to get this done within their "caption area"?

[prznar1]

Actually on paper that doesn't look like a bad idea...

Not getting into arguing whether EK's plater is this or isn't that, is just from a logistics point of view.

Getting the blocks re-plated "locally" surely is more cost/time efficient than shipping the blocks to Slovenia from all around the world?

As you point out I'm sure resellers know where to get this done within their "caption area"?

all true, but what if ek got exlusive agreement with plater? im sure that ek does not do anything that would cost them more then it should. i bet on that

[XiraN]

By the way Eddy, nice [snip] -Vapor

[NaeKuh]

As you point out I'm sure resellers know where to get this done within their "caption area"?

no i am fairly sure with 100% confidence that if EK doesnt fix these blocks, Gary will replate them, and then resell them after they been properly plated to recoop costs instead of ditching the failed plated blocks entirely.

[Vapor]

By the way Eddy, nice [snip] -VaporXS is not a place for you to attack anyone.

[MrToad]

all true, but what if ek got exlusive agreement with plater? im sure that ek does not do anything that would cost them more then it should. i bet on that

That could be an issue (the exclusive agreement I mean), but if I were the plater, regardless of the findings on the official report I'd be right now reviewing my process and looking into ways to improve the results, for the sake of my future business, and very open to alternative ways to deal with the existing issues that might not necessarily be "my way".

On the second part I couldn't possibly comment (no sarcasm on this), but I'd like to believe EK would like to do right for their customers. In my personal experience they've always been nothing but helpful to me.


no i am fairly sure with 100% confidence that if EK doesnt fix these blocks, Gary will replate them, and then resell them after they been properly plated to recoop costs instead of ditching the failed plated blocks entirely.

Yeah, it would be a total shame to ditch the blocks just because of the plating.

Personally I'd love to see some flexibility on the avenues of resolution of this matter... Doing right for the customer (and one doesn't need to put the trousers down for this) quickly takes the bitter edge away...

[Rudster816]

Or eK should play a reputable retailer.. ie.. sidewinders, to take all the RMA's and have have them replate it stateside and mail them back out.

I figure cross shipping and expense wise, that is probably the cheapest solution, because as it stands, i dont think anyone will trust eK nickle until they did a big time fix on there nickle plating process.

This is what I suggested in the other thread. But with EK allowing end users to RMA with the reseller, this is less of an issue because the resellers can just wait until the RMA deadline is up, and ship out all "defective" blocks back at once. Then EK can replate them, and resell them. I just didn't want EK demanding that the end user ship there blocks to Slovenia on their own dime to get them replated\replaced.

I do agree though, I think EK might be better off paying someone who lives in the States to replate stateside blocks. I suggested Swiftech earlier, but any company that can do nickel plating would do. Its up to Eddy though, I just hope that resellers aren't being punished by EK during the RMA process.

[MrToad]

This is what I suggested in the other thread. But with EK allowing end users to RMA with the reseller, this is less of an issue because the resellers can just wait until the RMA deadline is up, and ship out all "defective" blocks back at once. Then EK can replate them, and resell them. I just didn't want EK demanding that the end user ship there blocks to Slovenia on their own dime to get them replated\replaced.

I do agree though, I think EK might be better off paying someone who lives in the States to replate stateside blocks. I suggested Swiftech earlier, but any company that can do nickel plating would do. Its up to Eddy though, I just hope that resellers aren't being punished by EK during the RMA process.

TBH I don't think Gabe would like to touch any aspect of this whole conundrum with a barge pole...

[Eddy_EK]

RE: the return procedure – maybe the main retailers around the world could maybe consider accepting the returns on behalf of the end user and holding them all at their particular locations then return them in one large shipment rather than having the individual end user ship them direct to EK.

Then EK could have all returns sent out direct to the end user at his expense which would eliminate quite a bit of valuable vendor time and would at least show a bit of good will on EK’s behalf.

In fact other than scrap value, i honesty don’t see what good these returns will do for EK so why not bite the bullet and accept pictorial evidence to eliminate the costly returns procedure to the end user and ship them new blocks as most are having to pull systems apart in their own time and expense which fundamentally isn’t their problem to begin with.

Either way, no doubt this is going to cost EK a fair price so why don’t you do the right thing by the very people that got the EK brand to where it is today (well a couple of months ago) and offer new blocks at your own expense.

Seriously Eddy, you need an English speaking PR to stop this becoming one of, if not the most disastrous PR disasters i’ve seen in my 10+ years of watercooling and at this point, i’m honestly not sure you are aware of how bad this actually looks for the EK brand whether it be from a long time user, or potential new one.

We were thinking the same way by the RMA point #4:
4. We will then inform you where to ship the damaged block(s)

We will try to arrange that every customer will ship the products to it's closest EK reseller and should get the replacement product from them. This way we can lower the shipping costs to the minimum.

[Rudster816]

TBH I don't think Gabe would like to touch any aspect of this whole conundrum with a barge pole...

I wouldn't blame him, but if EK contracted out him plating potentially 100's of blocks, I think there is a couple of bucks to be made. ;)

[NaeKuh]

I wouldn't blame him, but if EK contracted out him plating potentially 100's of blocks, I think there is a couple of bucks to be made. ;)

oh yeah.. have your blocks sent to a retailer.. to have them sent to cali, then back to retailer.. vs having the retailer plate the blocks locally at a plater he trusts... and then mailing it out..

ummm..

sorry, im with toad on this one... and knowing gabe, he wouldnt touch those blocks soley on the reason of if the plating should somehow fail, it would be flipped onto swiftech.

And gabe is a solid businessman, and he doesnt like digging his own graves.




Eddy as it runs, once again sorry if i sound rude...
There is a problem...
Now to fix a problem, it costs money.
But if you can fix the problem with money it wont be a problem.

So someone needs to pay...
If you tell your customers they need to pay, well, thats the last problem they will see from you.
If your going to need to pay for this problem to go away, then do it the way people will be happy.

As it stands... even with your expensive testing, no one trusts your plating, and they wont until you've done a through investigation on your plating process.

So pay someone else to replate these blocks locally at the retailer.
As i said, gary does custom plating. Im sure Hank @ PPC will know a couple others as well.

Have them take the RMA's and front the plating bill to you.

Then i think the customers might not feel so bad when you make them pay for the shipping end.
If the plating fails again, you can blame the retailer... you didnt touch the plating... you go free without responsibility...
As i said, you paid for the problem to go away, and this is the best way to make it go away.

[mlwood37]

Yes, we used this coolant in our tests.

If you would like samples of

1) Pre-mixed liquids we make
2) Biocide

Ill will send them free of charge to you (you have to pay post and packing only)

So that you may test our products with you blocks. Contact me either though my shop or PM on here.

Mayhems Dye.

[theseeker]

We were thinking the same way by the RMA point #4:
4. We will then inform you where to ship the damaged block(s)

We will try to arrange that every customer will ship the products to it's closest EK reseller and should get the replacement product from them. This way we can lower the shipping costs to the minimum.

Eddy,

Thank you for your posts, this must be a difficult time for you. Being a business owner, I understand your pain. Mistakes-problems handled correctly, can help grow your business.

I do have one question; Since all of my blocks, 5 to be exact, are new and unused, what is your suggestion or policy?

Thank you and good luck!

Rocky

[aqualab]

Ok I read the institute report, on page 12 they mention

Ni.....98.98%
Cu....1.02 % ( 10200 ppm )

On this page about problems with copper impurities in nickel bath, they mention that 100 ppm of Cu is to much, so what about 100 time more (10,200) I don't know what is the purity of nickel other manufacturers use. if this 1.02 is more high than usual it will fit with my theory of copper impurities in the nickel bath, those copper impurities coming form the cathode and a to high voltage.

http://www.finishing.com/569/98.shtml

I hope this link is ok as it's not related to PC industry at all

[coolmiester]

OK Eddy, thanks for the clarification on how and where to ship returns but you simply addressed one issue and not one hint of an apology for the inconvenience these guys are going to have to undergo due to your inept plating issue.

Apart from the cost of shipping to and from the retailer i guess most people will have a few other questions you may want to address such as these seven below but no doubt i could double that with ease and many others will have more.

Is it too much to ask for clarification on the following to at least put some queries to rest as all these loyal customers want is a few simple answers....

1/ So i uninstall my block and find it has problems – how long after sending the 3 photos and the RMA form to support@ekwaterblocks.com do i expect to wait before i get the go ahead to then return the block/s to the retailer???

2/ I uninstall my block and find no visible defect but i don’t feel comfortable to carrying on using it or the EK brand – am i able to RMA???

3/ If i fitted my brand new block in the last few days, do you expect me to pull the block at my own time and expense and return the block before July 31st???

4/ Once the block/s are returned, again how long should i expect my system to be unusable due to the return block being shipped???

5/ Are the replacement blocks going to be of better quality to that i am sending back???

6/ What if the replacement block fails???

7/ Why is this whole experience costing me time and money when all i did was buy from a so called reputable dealer???

[Sparky]

And...

8/ What happens if the replacement block goes bad when using the "allowed" fluids, especially after the cutoff date?

[NaeKuh]

lol my solution appears to be the brightest one at this moment...

4 5 6 7 8 is taken care of.

Dump the responsibility on another source while you fix your source.
Instead of giving out bad replacements, or possible bad replacements, and trying to fix your source concurrently.

[coolmiester]

lol my solution appears to be the brightest one at this moment...

4 5 6 7 8 is taken care of.

I guy PM'd me once telling me he paid a guy to mod his case and he made a real mess of it and would i put it right.........i think we both know the answer to that so 4 5 6 7 8 isn’t taken care of in my book.

Its Eddy's problem and he needs to sort it rather than rely on others to fix his mistakes otherwise he will always be the guy that took our money and ran.

He needs to come up with a plausible plan to put his wrong doing right, and fast.

[KingOfsorroW]

Would the water change every two months solve the issue?

[rge]

Eddy,

An individual on hardwareluxx was using feser blue premix only, which is "non-conductive distilled", 4 corrosion inhibitors specifically for nickel/copper, etc, and ethylene glycol, yet that individual has large portions of exposed copper on his EK nickel plated blocks. See post 1227 (http://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/16859660-post1227.html) for pics and post 1229 (http://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/16859735-post1229.html) he stated his coolant only feser blue. Others had made similar claims, but cant find with quick search other pics. Just goes to show corrosion inhibitors may slow corrosion from nickel/copper contact from porous nickel plating, but not stop it.

By only examining corroded blocks, faulty plating seems excluded by design. Seems strange when large companies that specialize in nickel plating state the largest reason for nickel plating corroding is from pores/defects in nickel plating allowing dissimilar metals direct contact with fluid. Also surprising they use nickel plating to protect valves in seawater pumps at 3.5% saltwater that is a) very conductive and b) exposed to metal ions, yet even after years, the nickel coating looked pristine.

I think most people realize you know what the problem is.

What I think you fail to realize, yet, is the negative effect of in essence, calling everyone on several different forums all idiots by your conclusions.

[NaeKuh]

Would the water change every two months solve the issue?

no it would slow it down, but the result is the same without an inhibitor.

The fact is, you shouldn't have to use an inhibitor period.
And if we did have to use inhibitors, why is it ONLY on EK blocks?

If it was exactly like EK describes, then we should see it on Koolance, Swiftech, AquaComputers... but people have reported they see it on there gpu blocks, yet there koolance 360/370 is still brand spanking new.

So it points to faulty plating. And what CM is asking for is an appology from EK saying its faulty plating and a workable fix to the faulty plating, instead of telling us we cant run distilled in what would normally run OK in any other company nickle blocks, and only use premix while offloading the blame on our coolant.

:down:

[Phaseshift]

Does anyone else have any other comments from resellers besides Sidewindercomputers about this matter?

[aqualab]

Does anyone else have any other comments from resellers besides Sidewindercomputers about this matter?

Daz Mode in Canada make a statement ( starting at 1;50 ) but it's hard to understand what he said

http://www.youtube.com/user/DazMode

[dejanh]

At the risk of somebody saying RTFA or the like, is EK using electro or electroless plating?

[KingOfsorroW]

no it would slow it down, but the result is the same without an inhibitor.

The fact is, you shouldn't have to use an inhibitor period.
And if we did have to use inhibitors, why is it ONLY on EK blocks?

If it was exactly like EK describes, then we should see it on Koolance, Swiftech, AquaComputers... but people have reported they see it on there gpu blocks, yet there koolance 360/370 is still brand spanking new.

So it points to faulty plating. And what CM is asking for is an appology from EK saying its faulty plating and a workable fix to the faulty plating, instead of telling us we cant run distilled in what would normally run OK in any other company nickle blocks, and only use premix while offloading the blame on our coolant.

:down:
Yes, that's right. But repeating it in a mantra way won't help a thing. Personally, I now need a solution to the current situation with the waterblocks, and then I will never buy from Ek again. That's just as simple as that.
From the other hand, everybody makes mistakes, and that's life afterall...;)

[Octavian]

Eddy;
I need confirmation before I make a gpu block purchase:
Will this glycol-based additive + distilled water be fully covered by your warranty, and not corrode or flake:
http://www.dazmode.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=160_161&products_id=394

[Phatboy69]

Hey Guys,

There is a lot of EK bashing going on here, some of it by people with no experience with EK nickel products.

The failure rate is higher than normal but still statistically low.

Please also dont bash all pre-mix. They are not all the same.
I have been using Thermaltake green premix for the last year with 3 nickel EK GPU blocks, a full UD9 MB nickle block mixed with an Apogee XT CPU block and now a Koolance CPU370 block. I had some bitspower fittings that did however exibit some form of discolouration and corrosion on the threads. These are all replaced now for several months by Koolance fittings and quick disconnects and I recently did a rebuild and saw no sign of any corrosion or discolouration on any threads.

My EK blocks are in pristine condition and I have no so called sludge or jelly from the premix thermaltake fluid.

Its very easy to be a keyboard critic and have an opinion about anything, but please lets keep it real. EK is after all, a manufacturer of great products that has done the right thing by its customers and enables us to do the stuff we love doing.

They cant possibly test for all scenarios users are going to use their blocks in but they are doing further research for their customers just the same.

Stop the bashing, especially if your not personally experiencing the problem that has been identified. Having 1000's of posts to your name doesnt make you an absolute authority on everything, and some of you should be ashamed of your behaviour.

Share your opinions in a constructive manner, but just remember they are opinions not fact, and just like everyone has an Ahole, everyone is entitled to one. :yepp:

Love, Peace and Mung beans to you all ;)

[dejanh]

Hey Guys,

There is a lot of EK bashing going on here, some of it by people with no experience with EK nickel products.

The failure rate is higher than normal but still statistically low.

Please also dont bash all pre-mix. They are not all the same.
I have been using Thermaltake green premix for the last year with 3 nickel EK GPU blocks, a full UD9 MB nickle block mixed with an Apogee XT CPU block and now a Koolance CPU370 block. I had some bitspower fittings that did however exibit some form of discolouration and corrosion on the threads. These are all replaced now for several months by Koolance fittings and quick disconnects and I recently did a rebuild and saw no sign of any corrosion or discolouration on any threads.

My EK blocks are in pristine condition and I have no so called sludge or jelly from the premix thermaltake fluid.

Its very easy to be a keyboard critic and have an opinion about anything, but please lets keep it real. EK is after all, a manufacturer of great products that has done the right thing by its customers and enables us to do the stuff we love doing.

They cant possibly test for all scenarios users are going to use their blocks in but they are doing further research for their customers just the same.

Stop the bashing, especially if your not personally experiencing the problem that has been identified. Having 1000's of posts to your name doesnt make you an absolute authority on everything, and some of you should be ashamed of your behaviour.

Share your opinions in a constructive manner, but just remember they are opinions not fact, and just like everyone has an Ahole, everyone is entitled to one. :yepp:

Love, Peace and Mung beans to you all ;)

Voice of reason, I :clap: you sir :) This is nothing like the OCZ SSD fiasco where every part being sold was not what was advertised. That is an epic failure. This is more a minor inconvenience (unfortunately more-so for those that have the problem first hand).

[Sparky]

Having 1000's of posts to your name doesnt make you an absolute authority on everything,

Of course it does!! The more I post, the more important I am.

:p:

[OC Maximus]

try something else then feser :P
Is there a pre-mix out there that has been proven not to gunk up? So far Feser One has failed misserably in my loop. Any suggestions?

[Kenjiwing]

Hey Guys,

There is a lot of EK bashing going on here, some of it by people with no experience with EK nickel products.

The failure rate is higher than normal but still statistically low.

Please also dont bash all pre-mix. They are not all the same.
I have been using Thermaltake green premix for the last year with 3 nickel EK GPU blocks, a full UD9 MB nickle block mixed with an Apogee XT CPU block and now a Koolance CPU370 block. I had some bitspower fittings that did however exibit some form of discolouration and corrosion on the threads. These are all replaced now for several months by Koolance fittings and quick disconnects and I recently did a rebuild and saw no sign of any corrosion or discolouration on any threads.

My EK blocks are in pristine condition and I have no so called sludge or jelly from the premix thermaltake fluid.

Its very easy to be a keyboard critic and have an opinion about anything, but please lets keep it real. EK is after all, a manufacturer of great products that has done the right thing by its customers and enables us to do the stuff we love doing.

They cant possibly test for all scenarios users are going to use their blocks in but they are doing further research for their customers just the same.

Stop the bashing, especially if your not personally experiencing the problem that has been identified. Having 1000's of posts to your name doesnt make you an absolute authority on everything, and some of you should be ashamed of your behaviour.

Share your opinions in a constructive manner, but just remember they are opinions not fact, and just like everyone has an Ahole, everyone is entitled to one. :yepp:

Love, Peace and Mung beans to you all ;)

I'm glad your EK blocks are in great shape.. mine on the other hand arent.

Now I have to tear apart my rig and take the blocks off.. then ship the blocks to god knows where to get another block that MIGHT not flake nickel.. this is only if I use one of Eddys approved premixes...

Also how do you not test the two most industry standards in watercooling? Which is distilled/coil and distilled/pt nuke.. If Eddy told me when I purchased these blocks that I would have to use his approved mixes just for my Nickel to stay ON my blocks I would have laughed all the way to the bank.

The whole thing is a joke.

[mlwood37]

Is there a pre-mix out there that has been proven not to gunk up? So far Feser One has failed misserably in my loop. Any suggestions?

:stick: lol not 1 complaint yet ...... How ever i only ship to UK / EU pmsl.

[Qiko]

Dang I also purchased a new EK supreme HK full nickle 2 weeks ago from FrozenCPU. what do you guys recommend I do? What would be the next best cpu block? This is my 1st WC project.

edit: Qiko - please check you PMs. (shazza)

[zalbard]

5/ Are the replacement blocks going to be of better quality to that i am sending back???

4 5 6 7 8 is taken care of.
Umm, how? Where? I must have missed Eddy saying that there is something wrong with their plating and they are going to plate in some better way from now on.

Daz Mode in Canada make a statement ( starting at 1;50 ) but it's hard to understand what he said

http://www.youtube.com/user/DazMode
There is no statement, he is just talking about the issue.
OT: also, where is he from? The accent doesn't appear to be Canadian...

[Sauron_Vie]

so, if i wanna check my cpu and gpu block i have to unmount them and open them ? or is there another way ?

[SovietKitsch]

so, if i wanna check my cpu and gpu block i have to unmount them and open them ? or is there another way ?

Unfortunally yes. I just tore my Supreme HF apart and it looks fine but I really don't want to risk it. Don't know how to proceed..

[OC Maximus]

:stick: lol not 1 complaint yet ...... How ever i only ship to UK / EU pmsl.

Well..... we need to fix that don't we. ;)

[skeyo]

I found way to fix the problem :))

Plastic container made out of water pipe, sulphuric acid, as used in car batteries, lead blocks to attract the free nickle, car battery for power supply. Neg on part, pos on lead.

U doing it on your own risk. This will take nickel from block. So you save money on shipping :))))

[Sauron_Vie]

Unfortunally yes. I just tore my Supreme HF apart and it looks fine but I really don't want to risk it. Don't know how to proceed..

ok, thx. will check this @weekend. i think i will order some new ones from swiftech or another brand.. will see..

[NKrader]

im gona tear appart my nickel plated hk3.0 this week.. cant wait to see the carnage from running this distilled+kilcoil acid combo breaker.

im amazed that there is still a block there.

[wesley]

Hi,

On reading EK's statement, there's a reason EK cannot admit to any fault in their plating process. Coming from a legal angle, admitting = liability which in turns opens a can of worms for potential class action lawsuits (in the most extreme cases) which will put a big dent on the bottom line. The statement was most likely done on advice by their lawyers.

So EK has opted for the best option to limit damage to the company while trying to placate customers. Deadline on RMA also guarantees them a limited hit.

Smart thing for EK to do now would be take the RMAed blocks and replate them with a better nickel process to salvage their reputation.

Wes

[NKrader]

This was such a big thread I took a trip today.

Three plus hours later, I have my system, and I have a few observations after letting its fluid settle while I've been away.

First, I was affected, and second, if you want nickel dust, I have it.

Let me add that this was running a nanofluid type coolant as well. There's nickel dust sitting in my tubes. In fact, it even screwed up my coolant.

But rather than sit here and throw fuel on the fire, I'll do a tear down with my camera tonight, as well as an attempt to explain the mode of failure in this block with some diagrams.

I'll now step out of this thread until I have pics to explain what I found.

cheers for adding somthing other than my mindless rabble to this thread :up:


replate them with a better nickel process to salvage their reputation.

why would they do that? its clearly our fault the blocks are rotting out from under our feet...

[G4h4o8s6T]

Hey Guys,

There is a lot of EK bashing going on here, some of it by people with no experience with EK nickel products.

Stop the bashing, especially if your not personally experiencing the problem that has been identified. Having 1000's of posts to your name doesnt make you an absolute authority on everything, and some of you should be ashamed of your behaviour. While some posts may seem like "bashing", I see it more as............

"Hey Eddy, look man we're trying to help you out here by making you realize the entire truth, to maybe put you in a better position to make good on current and future customers"

The failure rate is higher than normal but still statistically low.
Voice of reason, I :clap: you sir :) This is nothing like the OCZ SSD fiasco where every part being sold was not what was advertised. That is an epic failure. This is more a minor inconvenience (unfortunately more-so for those that have the problem first hand).No one has said it wasn't, the problem is how the current situation is being handled, no matter how big or small.

Even if there was scientific data stating it was 100% not faulty plating, when the people, current and possible future customers, are worried about the quality of the plating, shouldn't there maybe be at least a "We will look into our plating process, and ensure thorough QC"?

Again, most of the "bashing" is there to help EK stay up top as a respectable manufacturer in the community, cause unfortunately at this point, whether the fluid we used is the sole cause as EK stated or not, there is a lot of doubt in the quality of their products.

[Utnorris]

Ok, so I have been away all day and I came home to this, yippeee!

Let's look at the facts:

EK nickel plated blocks have an issue, cause is up for debate at this point as I do not see anything other than a report commissioned by EK that states otherwise, nor did the test include another vendor to ensure that it was the additive and not the plating, so let's move away from that for now. I read through this thread, a lot of repeated info and some interesting posts, obviously, there are folks on both sides of this debate and on what should be done. So this is how I see it, like it or not I really do not care.

EK's Statement from page one.

We have also made internal tests of 5 different coolants in an identical hardware setup.
What we found in summary is that:
1. Certain chemical additives based on pure silver and Copper Sulphate that were added to the loops all of these cases have made distilled water electrolytic and with its properties they caused corrosion of nickel plating.
I called it early on. Somehow EK would put this on the user regardless of the simple fact that it is only happening to EK, not Koolance, not Aquacomputer, not Heatkiller, not even Thermaltake is having this issue, just EK and yet it't the additives that the consumer used that caused the problem. Starts with a "B", has 8 letters and ends in a "T".
2. Most of the threads on the forums have stated nickel-plating flaking off, while research have disclosed there was no flaking involved whatsoever.
What do you call when the nickel plating comes off? Naturally occurring? Seriously? Starts with a "B", has 8 letters and ends in a "T".

Effects of these additives were not commonly known. EK is sure that users are using them in good faith. Due to only until recently confirmed effects of these additives to nickel plated blocks, EK have decided to fully replace products with damage nickel plating in order to support customers of EK products.

If it isn't your fault, nor the fault of the plater, why would you go about replacing these blocks at SUCH a high cost to EK? Could it be that in reality this whole report and everything around it is Starts with a "B", has 8 letters and ends in a "T".

You will get a specific EK RMA form from your reseller which can be also downloaded here.

To get the RMA product replacement you will need to follow these steps:
1. Fill in RMA form
2. Make pictures of the block (front, back and corrosion close-up)
3. Send RMA form, scan of original invoice and 3 pictures for each block to support@ekwaterblocks.com e-mail.
4. We will then inform you where to ship the damaged block(s).
5. EK support will inform you from where your replacement block will be shipped to you (in most cases it will be shipped from the location where you bought it)
6. Customer will pay shipping costs for the replacement block and can discuss with the reseller what shipping method to use
7. Customer will get the block replaced and cannot ask for a credit note nor replacement for another product. Only thing that we allow is that customer can chose to replace the product for non-Nickel-Plated block – copper version.

So, I already paid for the block, paid to have said block shipped to me that was sold to me as a quality product and it turns out that it was not the quality product that I was promised. Now I have to pay to have said block shipped back to someone, so that it can be replaced by a new "High Quality" block all the while my system is down or running on air, forget about my time or the other costs. I like Naekuh's idea about using a local plater, it's either that or EK allows for an advance RMA like what Asus does where they ship the product to you first and include the shipping label back to whoever they feel like sending it too.

Therefore until further notice EK Water Blocks Company recommends, not to use distilled water with silver in the loop in combination with nickel-plated blocks, nor additives based on Copper Sulphate.

No other companies have this issue, I mean not a single company, nada, zip. Can we say Starts with a "B", has 8 letters and ends in a "T".

EK recommends only coolants with anticorrosion additive, although our internal test systems of pure distilled water have been found without any problem in 2 months test period. EK Team would like to ask you to kindly spread this information as we would like our users to continue having excellent experiences with EK products.

The replacement form can be filled in until July 31st, and starting with August 1st EK will no longer replace products with such damage as the reason of the damage will be widely known and customers still using these additives will do it under their own risk. The replacement request can also be possible only for the purchases with invoices dated up to June 12th 2011.

It's already been stated you cannot change the terms of the warranty without offering a full refund as said warranty is a contract and both parties have to agree to the changes.

Seriously everyone? I said they would put it on the user and they did. It's friggin twice now that EK has done this and people are for the most part "ok" with this, really? They do not make a product that no one else makes, seriously, you can find an alternative to virtually every single product they make. You can not get a company to change it's ways unless you hit them in the wallet, because that is all they care about. There is no way EK is doing this out of the kindness of their heart, they know it's an issue with their plating and while they fix it, they throw this out there as a smoke and mirror game to keep people distracted. I am sorry, but you are friggin stupid if you buy another EK product while this crap goes on.

[step]

The replacement form can be filled in until July 31st, and starting with August 1st EK will no longer replace products with such damage as the reason of the damage will be widely known and customers still using these additives will do it under their own risk.I'm sure that someone may have already pointed this part out, but this statement could cause a whole lot of legal troubles for you Eddy.


-
I know that since I purchased said product from an Australian store, that I can return it to them within the required 12 month warranty period and they have to honour it. That is even if it's past the beloved date above.

[mlwood37]

Well..... we need to fix that don't we. ;)

The problem is mate the prohibitive costs involved in shipping if i had a decent reseller who was willing to arrange shipping it wouldn't be a problem and that way the costs are kept low. I've refused single customer's who even say they will pay for shipping because i think its not fair on them and the end price would be more than what i ever wanted to ship it for.

How ever i have reseller such as http://www.specialtech.co.uk and various other reseller whom may be willing to do it.

[Utnorris]

Once again, I would like to express that there is no nickel flaking found.

The new products with some spots that may look like nickel corrosion is nothing more but the leftover from a nickel plating bath water. if you moisture it with your breath and use a cotton mop you can clean it.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v421/theseekeroffun/Madness%20Continued/DSC03892.jpg

Right now we can recommend only the coolants that we have tested, EC6 and AT Fluoprotect, more tests will follow. The distilled water is an option if you change it regularly but cant guarantee it as distilled water has different qualities across the world....

I could have sworn in the other thread that the guy tried to wipe it off and it didn't come off:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=4871279&postcount=517

Response to Vapor's question:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=4871355&postcount=524

[Paradoxxx]

Man... considering that I have had my FC580GTX block installed for <1 month, should I be concerned with this issue right now? I am using a silver coil within my loop.

I should have gone for a Koolance/Aquacomputer block... so much for EK superiority.

[step]

Man... considering that I have had my FC580GTX block installed for <1 month, should I be concerned with this issue right now? I am using a silver coil within my loop.Yes you should be concerned.

[Utnorris]

Man... considering that I have had my FC580GTX block installed for <1 month, should I be concerned with this issue right now? I am using a silver coil within my loop.

I should have gone for a Koolance/Aquacomputer block... so much for EK superiority.

Should you be concerned? Yes. Should you have gone with some other brand? Yes, we all should have.

[zeropluszero]

The problem also lies with EK trying to pass the blame on to users and basically tell us what we can and cannot use in our systems. I don't want to purchase anything from a company that can't own up to a mistake they made, and will not be purchasing anything from them due to this issue.
exactly as UTNorris said they would.

if u bought them at sidewinder... return the blocks now.
Gary said he would refund full credit no questions asked on nickle ek products bought b4 60 days.
Your best option is return, exchange, and not worry about bs premix coolant.
Koolance - Aqua Computers - Swiftech - Bitspower - DD
Has excellent nickle that u dont need to use BS premix coolant.
the nightmares with premix do not justify the extra bling eK brings no matter what angle you look at it.
Im sorry eddy, but if ur forcing us to use aftermarket coolant, we will goto another vendor.
So Fix your plating.. or you will lose all your nickle block sales.
no way i'd TOUCH a premixed coolant. i will continue to recommend that no one else does either.
i only hope that EK can see the issues with its own plater, and is remedying it by changing without telling the community, and that its blocks from here on out will be of better quality.

So, is anything going to happen on EK's part? Something to improve nickel plating process, slow down corrosion, improve durability of blocks?
you'd hope so.

1. Why have no other manufactures had issues with users using these additives?
2. Why have some blocks shown issues before the blocks were ever run in a loop? Notably whats going on in the picture that Gary used in his statement.
I'm pretty 50/50 on this solution. On one hand, users will be able to get their blocks replaced through their vendors\EK directly, which is great. On the other hand, I feel that EK did have (or still has) a plating issue. I do hope that if this is the case, that they have secretly fixed it. I use to hold EK in higher regards then what I feel they now deserve in response to this. Depending on what happens in the next few weeks\months, this could easily change for the good\worse. Either way, I do hope EK has made some changed to the plating process, rather or not they will admit to it, because from all of the evidence I have seen, this issue seems isolated to EK blocks only.
1) because their plating is simply better
2) this is nothing but proof, that the plating has issues, and renders reading anything that is mentioned in that report with a grain of salt

i must really agree with you on this one. i would rather quit watercooling than use premix..

well aquacoomputer here i come ;)
spoken like a pro

Thanks, that helped. So the only real option is to use the gelly luquids?
thats what it sounds like EK wants you to do, the same ones proven to break down in blocks and clog them.

Great, now I have 5 nickel paper weights!
maybe you can return them to the reseller for a restocking fee.

RE: the return procedure – maybe the main retailers around the world could maybe consider accepting the returns on behalf of the end user and holding them all at their particular locations then return them in one large shipment rather than having the individual end user ship them direct to EK.
Then EK could have all returns sent out direct to the end user at his expense which would eliminate quite a bit of valuable vendor time and would at least show a bit of good will on EK’s behalf.
In fact other than scrap value, i honesty don’t see what good these returns will do for EK so why not bite the bullet and accept pictorial evidence to eliminate the costly returns procedure to the end user and ship them new blocks as most are having to pull systems apart in their own time and expense which fundamentally isn’t their problem to begin with.
Either way, no doubt this is going to cost EK a fair price so why don’t you do the right thing by the very people that got the EK brand to where it is today (well a couple of months ago) and offer new blocks at your own expense.
Seriously Eddy, you need an English speaking PR to stop this becoming one of, if not the most disastrous PR disasters i’ve seen in my 10+ years of watercooling and at this point, i’m honestly not sure you are aware of how bad this actually looks for the EK brand whether it be from a long time user, or potential new one.
great to see someone with your presence posting on this. with such great points as well.

Well damn :(
I guess my next step is to find some kind of reputable additive for my loop (if there is any). Or I can just cross my finger and hope my block was properly plated :D
Its distilled and a biocide. in another brand of waterblock

sorry, im with toad on this one... and knowing gabe, he wouldnt touch those blocks soley on the reason of if the plating should somehow fail, it would be flipped onto swiftech.
And gabe is a solid businessman, and he doesnt like digging his own graves.

As it stands... even with your expensive testing, no one trusts your plating, and they wont until you've done a through investigation on your plating process.
i sure dont.

Personally, I now need a solution to the current situation with the waterblocks, and then I will never buy from Ek again. That's just as simple as that.
who would want to?

im gona tear appart my nickel plated hk3.0 this week.. cant wait to see the carnage from running this distilled+kilcoil acid combo breaker.
im amazed that there is still a block there.
you'll have to post a picture, i cant wait to see the damage.

Should you be concerned? Yes. Should you have gone with some other brand? Yes, we all should have.
and i did. *pats self on back*

[Phatboy69]

Come on Mods get this thread under control.

The way people are putting "Do not buy" stuff in here is slander and they should be told to remove it from their signatures as its completely inappropriate.

Gotta love these keyboard cowboys shooting from the hip with no personal experience with the product.

[OC Maximus]

The problem is mate the prohibitive costs involved in shipping if i had a decent reseller who was willing to arrange shipping it wouldn't be a problem and that way the costs are kept low. I've refused single customer's who even say they will pay for shipping because i think its not fair on them and the end price would be more than what i ever wanted to ship it for.

How ever i have reseller such as http://www.specialtech.co.uk and various other reseller whom may be willing to do it.
Thank you for the information. :up:

[schoolslave]

*sigh* hopefully I can get a replacement for a regular copper bottom for my HF.....

[zeropluszero]

Come on Mods get this thread under control.

The way people are putting "Do not buy" stuff in here is slander and they should be told to remove it from their signatures as its completely inappropriate.

Gotta love these keyboard cowboys shooting from the hip with no personal experience with the product.

this isnt ocau. they wont do that.

i have plenty of EK personal experience. do a search on ocau for my worklogs.

[Phatboy69]

this isnt ocau. They wont do that.

I have plenty of ek personal experience. Do a search on ocau for my worklogs.

did you personally experience nickel problem?

[Sparky]

I think saying avoid ALL EK is rather harsh and unnecessary. Avoid nickel-plated? Maybe so. But the normal blocks? Those are fine as they obviously won't have this problem.

[step]

Come on Mods get this thread under control.

The way people are putting "Do not buy" stuff in here is slander and they should be told to remove it from their signatures as its completely inappropriate.

Gotta love these keyboard cowboys shooting from the hip with no personal experience with the product.
Gotta love the backseat moderating.

[zalbard]

I believe people are recommending not to buy EK products because if some other problem with some other product arises in the future the resolution of the said problem may also end up being unsatisfactory.

[Vapor]

Come on Mods get this thread under control.

The way people are putting "Do not buy" stuff in here is slander and they should be told to remove it from their signatures as its completely inappropriate.

Gotta love these keyboard cowboys shooting from the hip with no personal experience with the product.Utnorris and zeropluszero are stating their opinion and doing so without crossing the line of 'bashing.' Please don't attack them over a difference of opinion.

As for the signatures....hmmmm....by including a message in a signature, it is effectively a message said in every post. While there are plenty of cases to not say it in a post (it's off-topic in the majority of topics), I'm not sure it's inherently wrong. Whether it's allowed or not is dependent on the wording, I suppose....certainly restrictions should be tighter than a common post because the message will be off-topic and potentially disruptive in the majority of topics. Will need to think about this one more.

So yeah, back to what we've been saying the whole time...please don't bash/attack members, please don't bash/attack companies.

EDIT: whoa there Utnorris...:eek:

[Sparky]

I believe people are recommending not to buy EK products because if some other problem with some other product arises in the future the resolution of the said problem may also end up being unsatisfactory.

I guess. I just know there are many companies that you don't want to buy products X Y or Z from because those have issues, but A B and C are all just fine.

When X Y Z don't sell well, they usually get the picture.

[Phatboy69]

I believe people are recommending not to buy EK products because if some other problem with some other product arises in the future the resolution of the said problem may also end up being unsatisfactory.

Maybe so, but there is a constructive and informative way to do that versus the abusive and slanderous behaviour that is completely uncalled for.

[Phatboy69]

Utnorris and zeropluszero are stating their opinion and doing so without crossing the line of 'bashing.' Please don't attack them over a difference of opinion.

As for the signatures....hmmmm....by including a message in a signature, it is effectively a message said in every post. While there are plenty of cases to not say it in a post (it's off-topic in the majority of topics), I'm not sure it's inherently wrong. Whether it's allowed or not is dependent on the wording, I suppose....certainly restrictions should be tighter than a common post because the message will be off-topic and potentially disruptive in the majority of topics. Will need to think about this one more.

So yeah, back to what we've been saying the whole time...please don't bash/attack members, please don't bash/attack companies.

EDIT: whoa there Utnorris...:eek:


Gee if I were a manufacturer I dont think id ever bring a product or comment anywhere near this place if thats your attitude. In my opinion :rolleyes:

[Vapor]

Gee if I were a manufacturer I dont think id ever bring a product or comment anywhere near this place if thats your attitude. In my opinion :rolleyes:Anybody can say "don't buy xxxxx." That's their opinion and there's a LOT of legit reasons why somebody will discourage the purchase of something (think of all the aluminum products nearly everyone discourages). It's how they say it, where they say it, and how often they say it (and sometimes why they say it) that causes issues.

Again, we maintain what we've been saying the whole time...please don't bash/attack members, please don't bash/attack companies. For example, Utnorris was just banned for a pretty inappropriate cuss-out.

[shazza]

@Phatboy69 - that's a little unfair. Our goal here is to try to keep the thread going so people can express their questions - and yes, even their frustrations. It would be a lot more constructive for all of us if the only posts people made dealt with their specific experience, or some relevant technical knowledge - but that' not going to happen in the real world. People are upset, and they are wanting to express their concerns. That's not a bad thing - it provides the vendor with an opportunity to evaluate their customer's reactions.

But, I'll just repeat that trolling and flamebaiting posts, and fighting with each other is going to do nothing to help the situation. People can add their thoughts, but please stay calm ... or at least civil.

[theseeker]

Enough is enough, let it go.

Good night!

[Phatboy69]

Just remember its the manufacturer that pays for the advertising to keep places like this running.

People without a direct experience with this particular problem have no right to slander the product/company, and If I was a manufacturer trying to do the right thing by my customers and got this response in a forum Id give it a wide berth its just not worth the bad and unjustified PR.

If I were EK Id be getting my lawyers to look at this very closely as, putting a slogan in your signature is slanderous and a lot more than an opinion.

[step]

People without a direct experience with this particular problem have no right to slander the product/company
They have the same right as people who have.

[zeropluszero]

wont EK's lawyers be too busy trying to retract their warranty wording? :shrug:

thanks to the moderating team here at XS for letting me say my peace. much better than those at OCAU, who are long on the ban hammer and short on the reasoning.

EK doesnt pay for any advertising here.

[aqualab]

People without a direct experience with this particular problem have no right to slander the product/company,.

I have no issue with my EK block, except that with all this craziness, I inspect my block 3 days ago, and in an hurry to put back my pc online after this non necessary checkup, I forget to clamp a hose, look at the results 2 day later, $ 1500 of parts flooded ...

Peoples will may not experience flood, but it will be downtime to check all the block because some place someone cut the corner. And try to put back an o'ring on a motherboard block.....:mad:

http://i554.photobucket.com/albums/jj432/dataxpert/a1.jpg

[Panthols]

I have actually owned quite a few EK parts, I acutally have 7 in my rig right now (thankfully nothing nickel plated). A lot of the issue people are having is with the fact that the blame for this is being pushed onto the customers. The people who are experiencing issues with the blocks apparently didn't follow a set of unwritten guidelines for keeping the nickel plating from degrading and are responsible for the damage, but EK will be nice and RMA these anyway. Slashdot car analogy: This would be the same as me running 91 octane in my car, having the engine blow up, then being told that BMW will replace it but it was my fault that I was running just 91 octane without their tested additives. No other engines blow up on 91 octane, just theirs, and it's my fault. That is not an acceptable response.

There is no apparent intent from EK to fix this issue that seems only to occur with their nickel plating. If EK stated that they are planning on modifying their nickel plating so this won't happen in the future, that would be great. If they said they were going to use a different company for their nickel plating that would be great. If it was stated that measures to resolve this problem in any way would be taken, that would be great. That hasn't happened. They pushed blame onto the customers and have stated no intent to change their plating process. This alone is reason enough for a lot of people not to use their products.

All we have gotten is "this isn't a nickel plating problem" and "you need to use these specific additives" and no "we will be changing our process". They can RMA everything for free and replace all the blocks as much as they want, but if the original problem isn't addressed (and most here agree that it hasn't) then the problem isn't solved. Until EK states that their plating process was flawed (or at the least that they will be changing it) a lot of people won't be buying their nickel plated blocks and a lot of people will be bashing the company for how this was handled.

[Annirak]

Maybe so, but there is a constructive and informative way to do that versus the abusive and slanderous behaviour that is completely uncalled for.

Have you looked at the other forums where Ek has posted his statement? The response is essentially universal.

You have upset users because a product did not work as expected. The response is similar to that of the Toyota breaking scare--ironically, that one was, largely, user error.

Yes, people here are a bit xtreme in their responses. What else would you expect? Forums foster a very visceral culture. People don't pull punches, and express directly how they feel about a situation. This is important feedback for EK. Eddy needs to know that he has caused a really bad PR situation.

I can see a few possible resolutions to this situation:

Eddy says that they're launching an inquiry into their plating techniques, increases the thickness significantly, RMAs blocks from anyone who's suffering a problem, continues to enjoy a good reputation.
Eddy secretly launches an inquiry into the plating, increases the thickness, RMAs affected blocks, enjoys a less expensive RMA process at the cost of his reputation for customer service. Said reputation may come back eventually.
Eddy ignores the calls for a re-examination of the plating process. Experienced users avoid his products, his reputation suffers, his market share and his profits shrink. (People bought koolance when they used aluminum on waterblocks, so some will still buy EK)


Eddy, please take option #1. It will cost more right now, but people will be much happier with you and probably stop suggesting that people buy from other manufacturers. Recalls are a really terrible thing to have to go through, but successfully executing one will gain you some loyal customers.

Having been on the development end of a product return, I know how stressful it is. I was the lead developer on a product that was integrated into some very expensive equipment. It failed. I got it back, tested it, couldn't identify a root cause. I went to the manufacturer of one of the parts, and they couldn't identify a cause (their part wasn't to blame). I eventually found a barely perceptible manufacturing defect (even with a microscope, it was nearly impossible to see). We kept the customer for that product. Do you know why? It wasn't because we were the only available manufacturer. It was because we kept them informed every step of the way and took their suggestions of what to investigate.

[Phatboy69]

wont EK's lawyers be too busy trying to retract their warranty wording? :shrug:

thanks to the moderating team here at XS for letting me say my peace. much better than those at OCAU, who are long on the ban hammer and short on the reasoning.

EK doesnt pay for any advertising here.

You miss the point.. if any other manufacturers see how the boards allowed to run amok here against a manufacturer, they may be reluctant to get involved with the community here, reluctant to offer equipment for review, and reluctant to do any sort of promotion or PR associated with this forum. The forum would eventually die due to the lack of funding and useful productive information for the community.

How would the forum mods feel If i started saying dont go to such n such forum all over the place.. think about it.

[Vapor]

Let's try to stay on topic. :)

[Panthols]

You miss the point.. if any other manufacturers see how the boards allowed to run amok here against a manufacturer, they may be reluctant to get involved with the community here, reluctant to offer equipment for review, and reluctant to do any sort of promotion or PR associated with this forum. The forum would eventually die due to the lack of funding and useful productive information for the community.

Yes, this happened with Koolance. I can see how the years of Koolance hate has led them to abandon this forum and never promote or post here.

[Annirak]

You miss the point.. if any other manufacturers see how the boards allowed to run amok here against a manufacturer, they may be reluctant to get involved with the community here, reluctant to offer equipment for review, and reluctant to do any sort of promotion or PR associated with this forum. The forum would eventually die due to the lack of funding and useful productive information for the community.

You'll note that Gabe from Swiftech is on this board fairly frequently (as manufacturers' reps go). I don't think anyone has any beef with him. I don't think he has any issue with how these boards are run. It seems to me that maybe, just maybe, there was a bit of a PR disaster and this is the fallout. Lesson to take away: Don't blame your users unless you can prove it categorically. A suitable example would be if the EK blocks came with a warning to only use with anti-corrosion additives.

[Annirak]

Yes, this happened with Koolance. I can see how the years of Koolance hate has led them to abandon this forum and never promote or post here.

Perhaps you miss the point... Koolance fixed the problem. Now people are starting to recommend their parts again. Surprising, isn't it?

[schoolslave]

You miss the point.. if any other manufacturers see how the boards allowed to run amok here against a manufacturer, they may be reluctant to get involved with the community here, reluctant to offer equipment for review, and reluctant to do any sort of promotion or PR associated with this forum. The forum would eventually die due to the lack of funding and useful productive information for the community.

How would the forum mods feel If i started saying dont go to such n such forum all over the place.. think about it.

Haha, I don't think EK "funds" this forum..... :rofl:
Actually, I think other companies will see that trying to blame an obvious manufacturer's fault on the consumer will not work, and that, not just this forum but others as well, value a true and honest assessment of these types of issues instead of this BS that EK is currently doing.

Btw, I own about 5 EK blocks (including one for my old HD 2900 Pro) and I personally own 4 of their reservoirs which have all developed cracks/leaks over time....

[Vapor]

Again, let's try to stay on topic :)

If you don't have anything on-topic to say, you don't need to say anything :p:

[aqualab]

A suitable example would be if the EK blocks came with a warning to only use with anti-corrosion additives.




You need anti-corrosive only to avoid complications cause by defective plating

[Panthols]

Perhaps you miss the point... Koolance fixed the problem. Now people are starting to recommend their parts again. Surprising, isn't it?

One more off topic... Sorry Vapor. I just wanted to clarify that I should have maybe used sarcasm tags for my post.

[stangracin3]

He may not have said it publicly but I am sure that his plater is getting an ass ripping. So just because he hasn't said it publicly doesn't mean something isn't happening privately. It seems some of you(Utnorris, Naekuh, and a few others) aren't even thinking of that possibility because you are already too busy on your way to the barn to grab the gas, rope and pitchforks. so you will be able to tie him to a tree and...

Now can we think with more than just one half of our brain?

[Church]

I decided to summarize my thoughts on this subject.

Thoughts on statement/finding itself:

It's plating quality issue, not of conductive coolant. Even pure distilled with NO additives will soon become conductive in loop as tests show. That's NOT "Effects of these additives were not commonly known" but been known for years by anyone not lazy to read in this hobby :). Some advertised non conductive coolants become conductive by time too (no comment on suggested EC6, as i've not tried it). Others vendors have no problems because of conductiveness of coolant. EK didn't had such problems too with their earlier nickel plated blocks. Distilled with silver or copper sulphate biocide might become conductive faster, but it should not be issue, and as it least problematic, cheapest and best performing coolant LCers came to by many tests and trials during many years timeframe, people will still use it in most cases. While non conductive coolants with anticorrosion additives might slow down EK's nickel plating flaking down, i myself certainly don't wish to exchange one problem with others, such as potential gunking up and staining of LC components, worse thermal performance and higher price. If EK nickel blocks are usuable only with non-conductive coolants, their performance can be counted as worse, just like if using only worse one then others TIM paste included in set with block. That lessens block value a bit. Pitty that even if bad plated blocks were just 5% (btw, reason why it might be harder to find problems even with testing by themselves and by that institute), i see this issue cutting sales of EK blocks by 1/4th at very least.

On RMA/impact on me:

As shipping costs make relatively big part of overall cost for me having to ship from 'other side of pond' (yes, only RMA shipment costs wise would be better if i'd shop just at EU LC shops, but often cheaper shipment there is more then offset by WAT addition, so initial purchase might have been made at stateside shops, thus RMA shipping needs to be made back to those) and further down are lessened on initial combined big order - which won't help on case of single block shipping back to states for RMA.
So in general high potential need to RMA is no-no for me, so most probably i'll have to choose non plated blocks or those of competitors :/

I'm sure that EK will quietly up their QC and probably enhance their plating process, but as history of rusting Koolance plugs shown, many shops might carry old, possibly defective, gear for long time, so i myself wont trust/get EK nickel* for at least year (and tell so for others asking for advise/suggestion of component choice). Pitty, as i liked looks wise nickel+acetal combo best, but potential problems is not something i wish for me or others (also being in ex-SU countries with very long and costly shipment) to have even if it may affect only small part of all the blocks sold.

Generic comment on subject:

EK might have handled this issue better. I see this damaging their reputation (and sales) for years even for completely unaffected/unrelated component series. But then again i don't like how many hotheads from community handled this too. Loose-loose situation in many ways in marketing droid terms. It's hard to tell if from business viewpoint other ways to handle this issue would be better minimizing losses though, as we are not in EK shoes and our guesses/suggestions will be just that. It's hard to monetarize such vague thing as 'reputation' and weight directly against lost sales number. Nobody has alternative worlds available at hand with rollback to try out alternative ways for choosing best one so it will stay a bit as guesswork. EK made his choice, will it be best for them long-term? Who knows. :shrug: But as this hobby related business success seems very influenced by vendor-reputation and what 'LC veterans' say/suggest, and as stereotypes are hard to get rid off, hit to reputation will be hard for years to come (again koolance's plugs as example, that got remembered even years after issue had been fixed).

[prznar1]

Just remember its the manufacturer that pays for the advertising to keep places like this running.

People without a direct experience with this particular problem have no right to slander the product/company, and If I was a manufacturer trying to do the right thing by my customers and got this response in a forum Id give it a wide berth its just not worth the bad and unjustified PR.

If I were EK Id be getting my lawyers to look at this very closely as, putting a slogan in your signature is slanderous and a lot more than an opinion.

have a right or not?
well...
people have a right to talk about whatever they want. you cannot say who can say something and who cannot. moderators just taking care of worthless craps and idiots that are not thinking about how they are saying something. it is that simple.

ive avoided few posts. no word from Eddy about plating i guess? :)

churchy RMA rules have been changed a bit. now you dont have to ship your block directly to EK, send it to your local EK reseller and he will send you back your new block. also while changing for copper version the price difference will be refunded.

[schoolslave]

He may not have said it publicly but I am sure that his plater is getting an ass ripping. So just because he hasn't said it publicly doesn't mean something isn't happening privately. It seems some of you(Utnorris, Naekuh, and a few others) aren't even thinking of that possibility because you are already too busy on your way to the barn to grab the gas, rope and pitchforks. so you will be able to tie him to a tree and...

Now can we think with more than just one half of our brain?

I wanted to believe that too, but as far as I know the report that EK posted came from the plater, therefore I think it's clear that EK does not actually think it's an issue with the plater, same as with the faulty reservoirs....it's all the user's fault for using PT-nuke and silver...blablabla

[stangracin3]

have a right or not?
well...
people have a right to talk about whatever they want. you cannot say who can say something and who cannot. moderators just taking care of worthless craps and idiots that are not thinking about how they are saying something. it is that simple.



not true

If fugger felt like he could come in here and delete this thread and ban anyone and everyone that ever mentions this again if he felt like it. last time i checked, this is his site not ours

edit:


I wanted to believe that too, but as far as I know the report that EK posted came from the plater, therefore I think it's clear that EK does not actually think it's an issue wit the plater, same as with the :banana::banana::banana::banana:ty reservoirs....

from what i can see it came from a science institute and EK's Lab's

edit 2:

and before you people say that this is not affecting me. well sorry to disappoint, but you are wrong. Ive wanted one of those supreme HF's for a while but then this happened. so now i will be getting the copper version or waiting a while to get a new nickel version...

[UrbanSmooth]

I currently use distilled water + PT Nuke PHN, the EK-FB-R3E mobo block, and the EK Supreme HF CPU block in my mobo/CPU loop. Will this setup be ok?

[stangracin3]

I currently use distilled water + PT Nuke PHN, the EK-FB-R3E mobo block, and the EK Supreme HF mobo block in my mobo/CPU loop. Will this setup be ok?

how long have you had the block? if greater than 4 ish months you should be fine

edit:
should be means MAYBE

[Church]

prznar1: i have NO local resellers here in Latvia. So only those resellers where i bought blocks on other side of globe or EK itself (while Slovenia also is in Europe, but still shipment is not very cheap).

[defect9]

these threads (this one, the other one, and the various ones related and spawned in response to) have given me a lot to think about in regards to my loop. While I wish it hadn't taken the entirety of what occured to reveal what has been revealed, I'm at least certain that we are now a more informed community.

my condolences to those who lost their blingy blocks, time, effort, money, and such on all sides.

[UrbanSmooth]

how long have you had the block? if greater than 4 ish months you should be fine

edit:
should be means MAYBE

Finished my build in early May, heh.

[prznar1]

prznar1: i have NO local resellers here in Latvia. So only those resellers where i bought blocks on other side of globe or EK itself (while Slovenia also is in Europe, but still shipment is not very cheap).

here in my country, we have atleast three resellers of ek blocks.
yooki.pl
cooling.pl
angela.pl
shipping blocks to Poland will be less expencive since only Lithuania is between us. ofc contact EK and one of them about RMA.

btw how did you bought them?

[stangracin3]

Finished my build in early May, heh.

but how long have you had the block?

less than 4 months?

[shazza]

G'nite all. While I have a feeling our requests to keep things on track keep falling on deaf ears, I'll ask politely that you think before you post. Don't flame, don't incite, and don't call anybody else names. Don't fight with each other. Out ...

[Defoler]

Regarding RMA shipping costs: it is standard in industry. It is same as if your kitchen mixer fails and you have to drive to deliver for repair nad drive again to pick it up after repairing.


You are kidding right? Please say you are kidding here...

Not everyone life in the US or europe, and have to get it shipped from abroad, which cost a pretty penny.
To send the block back to where I got it, for example frozencpu, I will have to pay 25$. And to get it back without tracking and a chance for it to get lost, will cost me another 25$.

If a kitchen mixer fails, I can deliver it to where I live in.

This is not the same!