New radiators: airplex modularity system

[Shoggy]

We have to admit that radiators where a thing that we have neglect over the last years. So far the most radiators that we offered lately are Asiatic, the only exception was the airplex Revolution. We were tired of dealing with quality issues that we always had with them so mid last year we decided to produce the radiators in our halls in Benniehausen, Germany. This was a radical step for us and therefore we felt that this must be something innovative which will get some attention in the market and should be the state of the technology at Aqua Computer for the next years.

http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_840_k.jpg (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_840.jpg)

Stephan had several ideas which not only lead to a new radiator but to a new modular system: the airplex modularity system (ams). This system is completely modular and has many advantages over other available systems at the market. The most important are:
absolutely modular system
utility patent in pending
consistent counter flow principle
extreme huge cooling performance
very compact - shorter than the most other radiators, only 146 mm wide
expandable in all dimensions, unlimited size
no solder residues since no parts are soldered
demountable to every single part which also allows easy cleaning if necessary
system with independent loops in one radiator
optimal flow / parallel tubes
no coating for perfect heat transfer
many colors available for the side frames (stainless steel brushed, aluminum black, blue, red)
optimized fins for low fan speeds and great performance when used passive
no mixed metals (especially no tin), no aluminum has contact to the water
CNC produced Delrin and stainless steel parts
high accuracy of the parts allow a perfect assembly of all parts
riveted threads
very extensive range of accessories (reservoir, pump modules, stands, filter, sensors, ...)
approved operating pressure of 5 bar (other radiators <1bar)
copper fins available for best performance
http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_2kl_1_k.jpg (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_2kl_1.jpg) http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_kupfer_1_k.jpg (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_kupfer_1.jpg)

http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_kupfer_2_k.jpg (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_kupfer_2.jpg) http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_kupfer_3_k.jpg (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_kupfer_3.jpg)


The ams is based on a package of fins with 21 tubes with pre-mounted stainless steel flanges. These are sealed against the fins package with a permanent high quality gasket. On both ends of the package we have delrin terminals which are also sealed against the stainless steel flanges. Everything is attached together with screws.

http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_kupfer_4_k.jpg (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_kupfer_4.jpg)


The threads for connectors are counter-sunk hand have a round dent. This dent is a little bit inspired by LEGO because with a little adapter it is possible to mount different ams products together to a single unit.

http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_stack_5_k.jpg (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_stack_5.jpg)


The mechanical fixation is carried out by small stainless steel parts. The Delrin terminals have small dents where these parts can be used. The fixations parts are available for horizontal, vertical or both connections. The flow path in horizontal setups is in series while it is parallel for vertical setups.

http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_stack_1_k.jpg (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_stack_1.jpg) http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_stack_2_k.jpg (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_stack_2.jpg)

http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_stack_3_k.jpg (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_stack_3.jpg) http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_stack_4_k.jpg (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_stack_4.jpg)

http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_stack_7_k.jpg (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_stack_7.jpg)

The system can be extended to any length without limits. To achieve this we offer a delrin part which connects two different fin packages together.

http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_stack_8_k.jpg (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_stack_8.jpg) http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_stack_10_k.jpg (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_stack_10.jpg)


At the beginning we offer the following basic radiators:
1x 140mm
2x 140mm
3x 140mm (copper fins available)
4x 140mm
6x 140mm

2x 120mm
3x 120mm (copper fins available)
4x 120mm
All radiators (120mm/140mm) use the same delrin terminals. Only the side frames and fin packages are different. When purchasing the necessary parts you can also transform a radiator to another model. All types have a width of 146mm so they fit perfect in a 5.25" drive bay. The height of an standard ams package is 63.5mm and it is 44mm longer than the relative fan size. For example 3x120mm = 360 + 44 = 404mm. All threads are G1/4" and can be used with all connectors from our shop.


Two loops in one radiator
The ams offers another nice feature which was not available on the market. Our systems allows to use two independent loops in one radiator. The cooling performance is splitted 70:30 so that the smaller loop is perfect for hardware with a lower thermal dissipation loss like hard-disks or RAM modules. Also this system is modular and the main loop can be extended to any size without limits.

http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_2kl_2_k.jpg (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_2kl_2.jpg) http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_2kl_3_k.jpg (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_2kl_3.jpg)


Radiator, reservoir, filter, pump, flow sensor...
An unbelievable compact solution with all things you can think of is the C600 module. This module can carry the following options:
Radiator
Pump
Reservoir
Filter
Water temperature sensor
Flow sensor
Pump controller
integrated fan controller
USB interface
http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_pumpe_4_k.jpg (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_pumpe_4.jpg) http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_pumpe_1_k.jpg (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_pumpe_1.jpg)

http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_pumpe_2_k.jpg (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_pumpe_2.jpg) http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_pumpe_3_k.jpg (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_pumpe_3.jpg)

http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_stack_9_k.jpg (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_stack_9.jpg)

All this in one module without any tubes, directly connected to each other with large cross sections. This module still allows to add other modules in the horizontal direction. The pump uses the ceramic bearing from our aquaduct series. The pump controller is based on the aquastream XT and allows easy control and monitoring options via USB and our aquasuite software. The pump works almost noiseless and does not generate annoying vibrations. A special variant of this module can also be used with 24V and offers potential-free alarm outputs.

The C600 module is as high as a 25mm fan. This way it can be mounted to the top of a case. Of course we will offer compatible mounting covers for it which also allow direct access to the integrated reservoir. The aquastream XT based pump controller allows to use the pump with a pressure of up to 350mbar. Of course the controller can read out the flow sensor and offers a rpm signal output. It is also possible to connect it via aquabus to the aquaero controller.

The module comes with an integrated sensor for the water temperature. This value can be used for the integrated fan controller. Depending on the used fans it might be necessary to use a poweramp to provide the fans with enough power. A flow sensor and filter is available as optional accessories. It can be easily installed later to the C600 module. The filter has a large surface like our single standard filter and the flow sensor is pretty much comparable to our high flow sensor. The pump can be easily removed to clean its impeller chamber. The pump is only locked with two little stainless steel parts and two screws.


Also available with Laing D5
Also pretty compact with a powerful pump and a minimum amount of vibration is the D5 module. It features:
Radiator
Pump
Reservoir
Filter

http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_kupfer_5_k.jpg (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_kupfer_5.jpg) http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_pumpe_5_k.jpg (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_pumpe_5.jpg)

http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_pumpe_6_k.jpg (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_pumpe_6.jpg) http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_stack_6_k.jpg (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_stack_6.jpg)

This module can be used with 12V and 24V. The power of the pump can be adjusted stepless via its electronic. Like the C600 module it is also possible to remove the pump. It also offers an integrated reservoir with a filter. Other than the C600 module the D5 module can be extended into both directions.

For both pump modules we will offer another reservoir which can be exchanged with the other delrin terminal. This combination allows to run the whole setup vertically.


Secure stand
Especially very helpful for an external setup we offer three different types of stands for the ams. Other variants will follow.

http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_stand_2_k.jpg (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_stand_2.jpg) http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_stand_1_k.jpg (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_stand_1.jpg)


What's next?
The ams is already available in our shop, the delivery will start mid June with the standard radiators. The colored variants and some modules will be available a bit later.

http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_stack_7_k.jpg (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_stack_7.jpg)

These are only the first steps for the ams. We are pretty sure that this system will redefine the segment of radiators with a level of quality that was not available so far. We already have many other modules and possibilities in mind and a few are already developed. A few of them will be a really big surprise - take that fore sure! The ams is very flexible and will allow hundreds or thousands of combinations so maybe your setup will be unique ;)

[theseeker]

Sven,

I need them now! The mounting with the D5's is exactly what I need. 120.3 x 2 and a 120.1......

Rocky

[Monkey Puzzled]

Looks good Shoggy. :) How are you joining the copper fins to the tubes? Any idea on price?

[zalbard]

I'd like to see pricing info. Also, is anyone from MLL or SLL getting one for testing?
And does powder coating (or anodizing) really reduce performance so significantly?

[theseeker]

Pricing is available on their site http://shop.aquacomputer.de/index.php?language=en&

[MrToad]

I've just bought a MoRa-3 9x140 grrrr... This system looks brilliant :)

Putting the res, the rad(s) and the pumps(s) outside the case means we're no longer enslaved to humongous cases either.

Neither we have to resort to bay res (and the bleeding issues that come with them) to get a more compact and neat setup.

Of course I'd like to see some performance figures, but IMO is a big step on the right direction :)

Looks are pleasing to the eye too :)

[NaeKuh]

:O

OMG that copper 120x3 looks so nice..

[Utnorris]

Anyone know if these will be available stateside? Looks interesting for sure. Not sure how they would mount in a case though, especially the ones with pumps and res built on.

[Crankyhobo]

Very Innovative, looks really promising. I have a brilliant idea:

Make sides that have an ikea style quick release locking mechanism for mounting fans. You would put a rod through the fan, perhaps with rubber sleeves to account for a variance in fan hole diameter (and provide anti-vibration), protruding from each end of the fan is a machined barb that slots into the radiator. Then from the side of the radiator you use a Phillips or hex key to do a half-turn which pulls the barb in tight. (since the sides are able to be disconnected i'm sure someone could just make this custom as an add-on). The end result would be fans that fit snuggly up against both radiators, you could even design it as a full length frame that you insert the fans into first - which would let you keep the perfect square profile and essentially hide the fans inside.

[Lu523]

I like the looks of them. I am getting ready to go do loops. This might be an option.

[Fatfool]

Very nice!

But the price is um... $180 (excluding the tax) for the 240mm ones here...) Well, it's made in Germany after all and probably is more worth it than feser's

[skeyo]

I need to sell my another kidney :,( I hope they have at least 5C difference from standard rads. Any 140.4 versions?

[Demthios]

I will be looking forward to the performance reviews since I'm planning a new build for this fall.

[Martinm210]

Also, is anyone from MLL or SLL getting one for testing?


No, not on my end. I'm already behind on reviews and just committed to a new job that's going to eat up most of the spare time I previously had for testing.

Looks like a very cool set of products though. I would suggest AC publish some in house testing for folks to look at.:up:

[zeropluszero]

I'm incredibly impressed! Extremely innovative!

Where can I sign up to become an AC shill?

[Doglips]

Amazing new idea! Can't wait to see how people will be utilizing these!

[Paradoxxx]

Aquacomputer keeps getting my money!

Can't wait for reviews to see how these compare to my 120.3 TFC!!

[evian_26]

just wow

Quality

:up::up:

[CedricFP]

So how does the modularity affect the average user? Considering the average user sets up their rad and "forgets" it. For example, I have a triple cutout in my Stacker. What reason do I have to buy the Airplex when I've already got a triple rad that fits in that slot? The pump combo is nice, but I'm asking specifically about the modularity.

[NKrader]

i want 240mm copper.

[Aedubber]

They look great !! And i will need some new toys for my upcoming build , BUT i need some test reviews compared against the other brand rads please ...

[Elmy]

Nice work. These things are pretty badass !

[Aedubber]

184.9 euros = 265.7568 US dollars for a 420 rad, i DEF need to see tests before i spend that type of money on a rad lol..

[nvmc]

Mind confirming what the tubes are actually made of?
Also, will be interesting to see performance numbers, flat tubes tend to perform considerably better if I'm not mistaken.

[NKrader]

184.9 euros = 265.7568 US dollars for a 420 rad, i DEF need to see tests before i spend that type of money on a rad lol..

if anything it will be the same.
its ac. you pay for amazing workmanship and braging rights.. :)

:shrug:

[Waterlogged]

Mind confirming what the tubes are actually made of?
Also, will be interesting to see performance numbers, flat tubes tend to perform considerably better if I'm not mistaken.

I was starting to think I was the only one to have "issues" with tube design. At best, I see these matching what we have now. :(

They do look great though...especially the all copper version.

[CedricFP]

I thought the whole point of these was modularity rather than performance?

And, unless I am mistaken, it seems this kind of modularity/flexibility really only pays for itself when you're constantly switching rad configurations.

For example, if you were a tester or just kept rebuilding your loop with different cases etc.

But it does look extremely nice. That all copper version... man, where do I insert my...

[mav2000]

Looking good and seems to be a lot for the price if I may add. But performance is key, so will wait for some performance figures.

[RacingTurtle]

Loving the innovation.
Typical these sorts of things always get released just after I complete a build!

[Church]

Hmm, i'd prefer flattened tube waterpaths to round ones aswell, but otherwise VERY interesting rad/module line. Especially interesting to me seems that integrated module with flow sensor/fan controller and so on .. Shoggy: can you elaborate on it's details?
All-copper rad core also might have extra win (I recall magicool's plexi rads .. while they were notorious for cracking of their plexi ends, pure cooling performance wise they outperformed common painted rads like RX & PA while being thinner then them, both at quiet and medium fan rpm ranges).

CedricFP: imho modularity might help for when moving LC gear to other case, where because of size you might wish to add or remove some rad section.

[defect9]

I'm wondering if the cooling pipes are just boring round pipes, or if there's anything inside to effectively increase surface area, like fins or something?

[Serpentarius]

anyone spot louvered fins in there?

[Aquatuning]

Nice one AC :up:

[st0ned]

Nice one AC :up:

Now work work to put them around europe :up:

[Defoler]

These looks really amazing :up:

But I have to point out maybe a small design flaw.

People tend to use a big longer screws and tend to push them too much in.
On one side, your tubes have a long way from the screws holes, so even if someone screw too much, it will not puncture anything.
But on the other side, he might.

On the GTX radiators for example, there is a small space, so even if you tighten the screw too much, it will not puncture any tubing.

This is just something to point out to, since these radiators are not "oops" proof.

But the copper radiators... lovely!

[MegadetHCl]

These radiators remind me of Lytron heat exchangers that use stainless steel tubing and copper fins. I've seen the Lytron units mentioned in laser cooling, and they are definetely not cheap.

http://theelectrostore.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/media/batch/3/heat-Exchanger-Lytron-4121G3-s.jpg

[[XC] Synthetickiller]

Looks like all these high RPM fans will come in handy when stacking rads. :up:

Can't wait to see reviews of noise and temps w/ 1 rad vs stacking 2. :D

[antiacid]

I like the industrial look to it. I'm eager to read about the performance numbers, both for single and stacked solutions.

[CedricFP]

Presumably the stacked rads will be run in parallell so you won't run into the performance issues the in-series MCR stack rads had?

[Church]

CedricFP: poor performance of stacked rads doesn't come as much from doubled flow restriction (double of little is not much either), but rather from increased airflow restriction and cooling 2nd rad with preheated air. Or under parallel you meant uniting them side by side not stacked one on top of another?

[CedricFP]

CedricFP: poor performance of stacked rads doesn't come as much from doubled flow restriction (double of little is not much either), but rather from increased airflow restriction and cooling 2nd rad with preheated air. Or under parallel you meant uniting them side by side not stacked one on top of another?

No... what i meant was the swiftech rads stacked and water flowed through them in series. That means they flowed through rad 1, were cooled substantially, and then flowed through rad 2 which receives hot air and therefore they are not cooled substantially anymore. Extreme diminishing return slope.

If you have flow going into 2 stacked radiators as paralell, it means that both rads receive heated water. You still run into diminishing returns, but not to the same extent.

Think of it as this - stacking 2 radiators and then having water flow through them in parallell can be compared to having one really damn thick radiator.

At least, I think that's the case. In my mind it is.

[chatch15117]

I'd like to see someone have a 1800mm rad mounted up the wall LOL

[Utnorris]

I am just curious if this will fit in a case.

[Church]

Utnorris: that .. or "will it blend"? :)
CedricFP: don't mix water flow restriction and air one. As i wrote above, rads usually are not very resistive relative to waterblocks, so waterflow connection in serial or in parallel shouldn't impact overall flow in loop, also only the very biggest rads may see noticeable temp drop after one pass through one rad, but most probably temps won't drop even one degree. It's not like water immediately heats up in block, and immediately cools down in rad.
It's different story with air, as stacked one onto other rad impacts a lot air flow, especially with quiet fans, so stacked rads benefit more from powerful fans with high air pressure to counter that (just like high FPI rads) and air's volumetric heat capacity is much lower then that of water's, so air heats up much quicker and for several degrees, so again to counter that you need more powerful (and more noisy) fans to blow air quick enough to not heat up too much in 1st rad to significantly impact 2nd rad performance in airflow path.
Thus doesn't matter much if two rads with separate airflow are connected serially or in parallel (they might even cool a bit worse in parallel because of halved water flow speed) waterflow-wise, but it matters a lot, if rads have separate airflow (eg. side by side) or are stacked one onto other, and even more so if fans used are quiet and slow (thus with little cfm and air pressure).

[CedricFP]

Churchy: I am not talking about water flow restriction....

...all I am saying is that running 2 rads stacked with parallel flow (in to both, out from both simultaneously) is more similar to having a very thick radiator than the Swiftech stacked rads ever were.

Airflow is certainly a concern. You are right that since temperatures tend to equalise in a loop, airflow becomes the largest limiting factor in stacked rad performance. Assuming you use the same RPM fans, would this method of parallel flow stacking not be beneficial over Swiftechs method?

[Church]

You don't get it. Your described rads side by side with separate airflows for each will act/perform/cool just like separate rads placed anywhere else. Only difference - they will be connected by those end modules instead of tubing. No need to worry about such scenario performance wise, only about mount possibilities/specifics, afterall, rad package side by side gets very wide.
Stacking drawbacks arise when you .. well, stack one onto other on top, with shared airflow for both rads, not with separate airflow with rads side by side.

[CedricFP]

You don't get it. Your described rads side by side with separate airflows for each will act/perform/cool just like separate rads placed anywhere else. Only difference - they will be connected by those end modules instead of tubing. No need to worry about such scenario performance wise, only about mount possibilities/specifics, afterall, rad package side by side gets very wide.
Stacking drawbacks arise when you .. well, stack one onto other on top, with shared airflow for both rads, not with separate airflow with rads side by side.

What? I'm not talking about side by side rads.

http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_stack_7_k.jpg

There's an image showing two rads stacked on top of eachother with a piece on top that provides what i assume is paralell flow to both rads. Just look at what Shoggy wrote:


The flow path in horizontal setups is in series while it is parallel for vertical setups.

That's why I said its more similar to a thicker single rad than the method Swiftech used...

I don't call "airflow" "flow". Flow in my posts refers only to water.

Would this setup not perform better than Swiftech's implementation? Granted, good fans will be needed. Push pull preferred.

EDIT: Perhaps not, though, as I just looked at some Swiftech stack images and it appears you could configure the flow to be parallel between both those rads as well.

[stoner]

i love the idea... the delrin part with+flowmeter+sensor it's great

[skinnee]

Holy buckets, thats a lot of testing...


Yes, this thread brought me out of my self-demanded mental vacation.

[Crankyhobo]

We love you though. :D :D Pretty please!


Holy buckets, thats a lot of testing...


Yes, this thread brought me out of my self-demanded mental vacation.

[Bei Fei]

These radiators remind me of Lytron heat exchangers that use stainless steel tubing and copper fins. I've seen the Lytron units mentioned in laser cooling, and they are definetely not cheap.

http://theelectrostore.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/media/batch/3/heat-Exchanger-Lytron-4121G3-s.jpg


I have about 50 120mm single lytron heat exchangers laying around from a project I did a few years ago.

[Arthur]

What a huge radiator man. :eek: Even my old RX360 scared from it alot. ;)

[NKrader]

I'm wondering if the cooling pipes are just boring round pipes, or if there's anything inside to effectively increase surface area, like fins or something?

did somone say nano coating?

[TheMysticWizard]

I have about 50 120mm single lytron heat exchangers laying around from a project I did a few years ago.

orly? are you selling any for cheap?

[IanM]

Secure stand
Especially very helpful for an external setup we offer three different types of stands for the ams. Other variants will follow.

http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_stand_2.jpg
http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_stand_1.jpg

Can you say any more about the stand variations that are planned?

For a while I've been thinking about wall mounts for radiators, and I think a horizontal wall mounting, with a floating shelf style 'hidden' bracket so that it looks really discreet would be excellent. If the same bracket system could also allow vertical wall mounting that would be perfect, although if vertical wall mounting would require an alternative bracket that would be OK.

I think both horizontal and vertical mounting options useful - horizontal best for passive/very low air flow, and vertical for most efficient space saving.

[DarthBeavis]

I have not been paying attention to the new H20 stuff do to being buried in a project, but is this similar to/the same/an improvement of the Fesser radiator they were working on? Is this related? I know there was some kind of drama with the Feser radiator so I am wondering if this has something to do with it.

[PatRaceTin]

VERY VERY innovate

but how about price/performance

[zeropluszero]

I have not been paying attention to the new H20 stuff do to being buried in a project, but is this similar to/the same/an improvement of the Fesser radiator they were working on? Is this related? I know there was some kind of drama with the Feser radiator so I am wondering if this has something to do with it.

nothing to do with the admiral from fester.

[DarthBeavis]

nothing to do with the admiral from fester.

http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_stack_10_k.jpghttp://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_stack_8_k.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheFeserCompany

Dunno but to me I see 'something to do with'. :shrug:

[zeropluszero]

i must be wrong.
nevermind.

[DarthBeavis]

i must be wrong.
nevermind.

not saying you are bud it just seems very similar. also not saying anyone is doing anything wrong just curious if there is a story to it all (like there was with Feser and Bitspower and the similarity of some of their products).

[mav2000]

Also similar to the thermalfins which also seems to have disappeared....

[IanM]

Dunno but to me I see 'something to do with'. :shrug:
it's a modular system, so I think it's quite natural that the link be made and the question(s) asked - did Aqua Computer buy the Feser designs? is it the same manufacturer doing the construction? did Aqua Computer do something entirely new? To me the Modularity radiator looks quite different that the Admiral, and in any case I wouldn't be bothered if there is any connection to the older design. Aqua Computer have a better looking product that is available to order now, the only real question is just how good (or not) is the performance.

[subtec]

IIRC, the company behind Thermalfins was originally going to be manufacturing the Admiral for Feser... there was some sort of falling out (failure to pay by Feser?), and they decided to bring the rads to market on their own under the Thermalfins brand (sans the modularity of the Admiral). As of right now the two companies seem to be pretty quiet... it's possible they're still negotiating to bring the Admiral to market.

As far as the similarity to these new AC AMS rads, it's mostly superficial; the Thermalfins/Admiral use a finned tube design, where the fins are actually part of each tube itself. In comparison, these AC rads appear much more conventional, using a standard tube-and-fin design. The only common points are the use of round tubes and the modular aspect (AMS and Admiral; the Thermalfins aren't modular).

[DarthBeavis]

IIRC, the company behind Thermalfins was originally going to be manufacturing the Admiral for Feser... there was some sort of falling out (failure to pay by Feser?), and they decided to bring the rads to market on their own under the Thermalfins brand (sans the modularity of the Admiral). As of right now the two companies seem to be pretty quiet... it's possible they're still negotiating to bring the Admiral to market.

As far as the similarity to these new AC AMS rads, it's mostly superficial; the Thermalfins/Admiral use a finned tube design, where the fins are actually part of each tube itself. In comparison, these AC rads appear much more conventional, using a standard tube-and-fin design. The only common points are the use of round tubes and the modular aspect (AMS and Admiral; the Thermalfins aren't modular).
Only? Mmm. Since that is what differentiates these from all other radiators on the market . . .using the word 'only' is like saying the only different between an obese girl and a hot thin girl is ONLY 600 pounds. That is a lot of 'only' my friend. :ROTF:

[[XC] Synthetickiller]

VERY VERY innovate

but how about price/performance

I think it was close to or over $250 for the Triple Rad on aquatuning's site.

Too rich for my blood!

[subtec]

Only? Mmm. Since that is what differentiates these from all other radiators on the market . . .using the word 'only' is like saying the only different between an obese girl and a hot thin girl is ONLY 600 pounds. That is a lot of 'only' my friend. :ROTF:

Well, as I explained, the similarity is superficial; the actual manufacturing process is different. And there've been fin-and-tube rads on the market forever - just look at AC's older Airplex rads (http://aquacomputer.de/airplex-evo.html). These new AMS rads use basically the same tube/fin design as those old rads. It's fundamentally different than the finned-tube design of the Admiral/Thermalfins.

The point is, your original question was are these related somehow to the Thermalfins/Feser Admiral, and the answer is, no.

[NaeKuh]

(AMS and Admiral; the Thermalfins aren't modular).

no u are wrong..

well since the feser rad isnt coming out i guess i can speak some info on it.

The feser rad was fully modular.
It had a serial and paralell plate you could swap out.

Infact assembly on the thing was so complicated the guys at feser had to draw skinnee a diagram using napkins because it was too complicated to just visualize.

The big difference that i see here tho is the tubes themselves.
The tubes on the airplex is round simple tubes used in condensors.
Obviously the reason is to increase the width of the radiator and give the customers less crap to stick into the holes... imagine if the tubes were flat, and how many tubes u would be inserting.

However they took a step back in our current rad tech, so u get modularity.

Anyhow i think the admiral / feser is superior because of the tube design vs this airplex.

But if AC went those tube style, they would probably realize how insanely expensive it was, and would make this product.

[subtec]

no u are wrong..


o ok

Convincingly argued and well substantiated there, Naekuh.

So if I'm wrong, the Thermalfins are modular?

Or perhaps you misunderstood me... seems like English isn't your first language? In that statement you quoted the semicolon has meaning. I was saying the AMS and Admiral are modular, while the the Thermalfins are not. That was my impression at least. Perhaps you know otherwise?

[Stephan@AC]

Hi, as the CEO of Aqua Computer and also the responsible person for the mechanical design of the airplex modularity system I would first like to thank you for the compliments !

I can tell you, that there is no influence of any other product or manufacturer. We are not using designs of any other company.

In our forum we gave the first information including the use of Delrin parts, the "Lego" modularity system, no soldering etc. at January the 9th of this year (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/wasserk-hlung/p1341237-welche-radi-abmessungen-gew-nscht/?highlight=lego#post1341237).

We also have send applications for utility models to the german patent office before this date.

This first information (Delrin, modular system, no soldering, completely decomposable, CNC build) was given on january the 9th. On january the 11th another company (you know) released information about a radiator in a very hasty way and a great video presentation :) I know how it feels if you work on a product and another company is writing an announcement for a new product in the same product range.....

Our radiators was ready before christmas last year, but we have to make long term tests before we can sell a new product and we don't like to give ideas to other companys without having them protected by patent. Also we are doing the complete production process in our halls. So we had to build many tools for production. What I will say with this again: We have done the ams design without any influence from any other product or company. The only help I got from the 2 year old child Luca, the sone of Dino, as I was playing Lego with him :)

Now you can check the timeline of design presentations on your own.

Regarding the use of round tubes and the fin structure:
We have used square tubes at the revolution and other radiators. The first ams prototype (we will maybe show pictures) was using this design. It's no problem to use square fins in a modular design.
The problem at this design is the use of solder between fins and tubes. The solder has a very poor heat conduction and due the bad look of discoloration of soldered surfaces and heat influence on the fins we would have to paint the fins. This will result in the next reduction in performance.

At the ams we are now forming the tube in a very special way to get fully in contact with the fins without soldering. In this forming process the tube also gets a special internal turbulent structure which improves the performance. We are using 21 tubes with a very small distance between the tubes and special fins.

Another question was about corrugated fins:
We have also corrugated fins available for the ams and we have certainly tested them. We are not selling them at the release as the fins we are using are performing better with the air-flow normal users are using. Remember that most radiator finns are optimized for usage in cars and the airflow and airpressure is much higher in this application.

Be sure that we will deliver a high performance product that has been tested against the rest of the industry before it went in the production process. We are doing our very best to find out the best performance. I think we have proved this with the kryos and other designs.

Thanks again for the praise. It's very nice to read your posts after a long time of developing :)

[DarthBeavis]

Hi, as the CEO of Aqua Computer and also the responsible person for the mechanical design of the airplex modularity system I would first like to thank you for the compliments !

I can tell you, that there is no influence of any other product or manufacturer. We are not using designs of any other company.

In our forum we gave the first information including the use of Delrin parts, the "Lego" modularity system, no soldering etc. at January the 9th of this year (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/wasserk-hlung/p1341237-welche-radi-abmessungen-gew-nscht/?highlight=lego#post1341237).

We also have send applications for utility models to the german patent office before this date.

This first information (Delrin, modular system, no soldering, completely decomposable, CNC build) was given on january the 9th. On january the 11th another company (you know) released information about a radiator in a very hasty way and a great video presentation :) I know how it feels if you work on a product and another company is writing an announcement for a new product in the same product range.....

Our radiators was ready before christmas last year, but we have to make long term tests before we can sell a new product and we don't like to give ideas to other companys without having them protected by patent. Also we are doing the complete production process in our halls. So we had to build many tools for production. What I will say with this again: We have done the ams design without any influence from any other product or company. The only help I got from the 2 year old child Luca, the sone of Dino, as I was playing Lego with him :)

Now you can check the timeline of design presentations on your own.

Regarding the use of round tubes and the fin structure:
We have used square tubes at the revolution and other radiators. The first ams prototype (we will maybe show pictures) was using this design. It's no problem to use square fins in a modular design.
The problem at this design is the use of solder between fins and tubes. The solder has a very poor heat conduction and due the bad look of discoloration of soldered surfaces and heat influence on the fins we would have to paint the fins. This will result in the next reduction in performance.

At the ams we are now forming the tube in a very special way to get fully in contact with the fins without soldering. In this forming process the tube also gets a special internal turbulent structure which improves the performance. We are using 21 tubes with a very small distance between the tubes and special fins.

Another question was about corrugated fins:
We have also corrugated fins available for the ams and we have certainly tested them. We are not selling them at the release as the fins we are using are performing better with the air-flow normal users are using.

Be sure that we will deliver a high performance product that has been tested against the rest of the industry before it went in the production process.
Sorry but I am not buying the idea that two different companies would develop modular radiators and neither influenced the other. No way. I am also not saying who was the originator as I have NO idea on that issue. Tell me I have no reason to have a question in my mind about this.

[SpuTnicK]

a high performance product that has been tested against the rest of the industry before it went in the production process.
So how about those numbers?

[Stephan@AC]

So how about those numbers?

Please wait for the results of independent reviews. We are not publishing internal results. Sorry for this. We will send out radiators for reviews very soon.

[Alexandr0s]

Sorry but I am not buying the idea that two different companies would develop modular radiators and neither influenced the other. No way. I am also not saying who was the originator as I have NO idea on that issue. Tell me I have no reason to have a question in my mind about this.

Don't blame you for having doubts, because in the back of my mind, there are some as well, but it is possible. I mean, Leibniz and Newton both independently developed calculus (which did however result in a very long discussion and lots of accusations).

[subtec]

Sorry but I am not buying the idea that two different companies would develop modular radiators and neither influenced the other. No way. I am also not saying who was the originator as I have NO idea on that issue. Tell me I have no reason to have a question in my mind about this.

Sorry but, who cares? If there were a patent issue or something, that's for them to sort out. Aren't you just happy to be getting better products?

[DarthBeavis]

Sorry but, who cares? If there were a patent issue or something, that's for them to sort out. Aren't you just happy to be getting better products?
I want something juicy to talk about around the water-cooled water-cooler at teh XS party next CES :yepp: I am ALL for getting some kick arse products - I also am interested in how this stuff is developed not just in the end product.

[Church]

BTW, i wonder if it's possible to make some really unusual rad combinations with these modular ones - eg. something like "S" 4-piece from tetris, where two rads are not exactly side by side :)

[Zio Sp_Hammer]

great solution !! I think that you have made a new way of waercooling solution
:up:

[SpuTnicK]

Stephan@AC

Can you tell what material is used for AMS watertube (waterchannel) production? Is it different for copper/aluminum models?

[Martinm210]

We are not publishing internal results. Sorry for this. We will send out radiators for reviews very soon.

Just curious, why not publish your internal testing results?

I think it would be awesome if we could encourage more manufacturers to share data this way. It shows consumers there is faith in performance of the products and provides emphasis that there was good R&D behind the scenes....:up:

I can only see benefit here and would like to highly encourage more manufacturer testing. We need both manufacturer and 3rd party testing, not one or the other.

[Church]

I might understand that results might vary for something like waterblocks as it depends a lot from cooled hardware piece/testbed, but imho for components like rads / pumps there should be no problems to get repeatable result range of dissipated heat with specific fan models/fanspeeds/flow speed and pressure drop lines ..

[NKrader]

Only? Mmm. Since that is what differentiates these from all other radiators on the market . . .using the word 'only' is like saying the only different between an obese girl and a hot thin girl is ONLY 600 pounds. That is a lot of 'only' my friend. :ROTF:

haha db you crack me up.

:rofl:

[Crazystang01]

It's not to uncommon to see 2 of the same type of product or close to same product invented at the same time. This brings me to think about the invention of the phone.

"In the 1870s, two inventors Elisha Gray and Alexander Graham Bell both independently designed devices that could transmit speech electrically (the telephone). Both men rushed their respective designs to the patent office within hours of each other, Alexander Graham Bell patented his telephone first. Elisha Gray and Alexander Graham Bell entered into a famous legal battle over the invention of the telephone, which Bell won."

Anyways nice Rads any plans on making Radiator sizes for 180mm fans?

[catcherintherye]

It's unlikely but not impossible.

[skinnee]

Am I the only one who doesn't see the AC AMS as a "knock-off / copy / whatever" of the other recent German design? Sure there is Delrin involved, round tubes, but thats where it stops. The fins on the AC are not machined into the tubes, that is a major difference. Once you start looking at the details, the only similarity is that they're both radiators. But, what do I know... :nuts:

I'm looking forward to testing these if I get the chance, something new and different hitting the bench is always fun.

[zalbard]

Am I the only one who doesn't see the AC AMS as a "knock-off / copy / whatever" of the other recent German design?
Nope, not just you.

[ryan92084]

Am I the only one who doesn't see the AC AMS as a "knock-off / copy / whatever" of the other recent German design? Sure there is Delrin involved, round tubes, but thats where it stops. The fins on the AC are not machined into the tubes, that is a major difference. Once you start looking at the details, the only similarity is that they're both radiators. But, what do I know... :nuts:

I'm looking forward to testing these if I get the chance, something new and different hitting the bench is always fun.


agreed, this one might actually be viable

[DarthBeavis]

Am I the only one who doesn't see the AC AMS as a "knock-off / copy / whatever" of the other recent German design? Sure there is Delrin involved, round tubes, but thats where it stops. The fins on the AC are not machined into the tubes, that is a major difference. Once you start looking at the details, the only similarity is that they're both radiators. But, what do I know... :nuts:

I'm looking forward to testing these if I get the chance, something new and different hitting the bench is always fun.show me the long history of modular radiators . . .it would be like two compression fittings hitting the market at or around the same time when NO ONE had made compression fittings before or like two companies releasing full coverage GPU blocks at the same time when NO ONE had released them before. Look at how they connect. Uh, TOTALLY the same man. Let's think about it more . . .both done in what country? Germany. Again, not saying who if anyone has done anything shady but it sure does beg some questions. But then what do I know. A bit new to water-cooling and this industry :shrug:

[prznar1]

i will stick to my tc pa 120.3 :D but nice to see some crazy innovations :)

[zeropluszero]

I want something juicy to talk about around the water-cooled water-cooler at teh XS party next CES :yepp: I am ALL for getting some kick arse products - I also am interested in how this stuff is developed not just in the end product.
At least we don't have to worry that aqua computer is phobya, and remaking other products left and right

[Fatfool]

Am I the only one who doesn't see the AC AMS as a "knock-off / copy / whatever" of the other recent German design? Sure there is Delrin involved, round tubes, but thats where it stops. The fins on the AC are not machined into the tubes, that is a major difference. Once you start looking at the details, the only similarity is that they're both radiators. But, what do I know... :nuts:

I'm looking forward to testing these if I get the chance, something new and different hitting the bench is always fun.
Yep. Me neither. This is a conventional radiator fin design. Feser's used skived tubes. Basically a very thick walled tube with with metal skived off.

[Captain H.N.]

many colors available for the side frames (stainless steel brushed, aluminum black, blue, red)

Any photos of those? :D

[DarthBeavis]

At least we don't have to worry that aqua computer is phobya, and remaking other products left and right

for sure. like i said I am not taking sides if there are even sides to take - just asking the questions. funny how people focus on ONE design aspect which is different and then dismisses the one I am saying is the same. :shrug: Connecting multiple radiators together in this manner is new and unique. Also grounds for a patent I would think. So, the question is: WHO CAME UP WITH IT FIRST?

[OC Maximus]

Who came up with what first?

The idea?
The design on a napkin?
The actual product?
The actual product to the market?

[DarthBeavis]

Who came up with what first?

The idea?
The design on a napkin?
The actual product?
The actual product to the market?The concept. I personally would like to know who came up with the concept of this type of modular radiator and how the second party came up with their concept :yepp: Don't care about actual product design or to market. ALL I am saying is there must be come COMMON source of the original idea

[OC Maximus]

Oh, ok. Then it was me. Muhuhuhuwahaha :D

[DarthBeavis]

Oh, ok. Then it was me. Muhuhuhuwahaha :D

now it makes sense . . . you is the anti-Christ (post count). Yes, it is all your fault
http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/294/65201192122pm.png


:shocked::shocked::shocked::shocked::shocked::shoc ked:

[OC Maximus]

WOW, LMAO!!

Busted......

[Defoler]

In our forum we gave the first information including the use of Delrin parts, the "Lego" modularity system, no soldering etc. at January the 9th of this year (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/wasserk-hlung/p1341237-welche-radi-abmessungen-gew-nscht/?highlight=lego#post1341237).

We also have send applications for utility models to the german patent office before this date.

This first information (Delrin, modular system, no soldering, completely decomposable, CNC build) was given on january the 9th. On january the 11th another company (you know) released information about a radiator in a very hasty way and a great video presentation :) I know how it feels if you work on a product and another company is writing an announcement for a new product in the same product range.....



The Feser ones where show way earlier on their "soon to come" with the 5x140 monsta "holy moses" radiator flash site, around september of 2010.
So saying january, well, its already way later.

I'm not saying you copied.
But just wanted to point this out.

[coolhandluke41]

The Feser ones where show way earlier on their "soon to come" with the 5x140 monsta "holy moses" radiator flash site, around september of 2010.
So saying january, well, its already way later.

I'm not saying you copied.
But just wanted to point this out.

you are wrong ,Feser show of the proposed new RAD in september of 2010 but the RAD had nothing to do with being modular at all,it was new round tube design and nothing more ,
the idea of modular "lego" design came to light in Jan 2011 CES show in vegas "famous introduction video ",just by looking at the new airplex RAD you can tell this product is well design and thought of ,
it takes time to come up with brand new/finished product like this ,stop the accusations

great job AC

[DarthBeavis]

you are wrong ,Feser show of the proposed new RAD in september of 2010 but the RAD had nothing to do with being modular at all,it was new round tube design and nothing more ,
the idea of modular "lego" design came to light in Jan 2011 CES show in vegas "famous introduction video ",just by looking at the new airplex RAD you can tell this product is well design and thought of ,
it takes time to come up with brand new/finished product like this ,stop the accusations

great job AC
sorry but NOTHING you said diminshes the fact that two companies both have the same type of MODULAR design at or about the same time manufactured in the same place . . .Germany, when most radiators are fabbed in Asia. We have seen interesting business practices from Germany before . . .trademark grabs and such. I have not accused either company but I am asking the questions. :rolleyes:

[coolhandluke41]

sorry but NOTHING you said diminshes the fact that two companies both have the same type of MODULAR design at or about the same time manufactured in the same place . . .Germany, when most radiators are fabbed in Asia. We have seen interesting business practices from Germany before . . .trademark grabs and such. I have not accused either company but I am asking the questions. :rolleyes:

here is you answer.." 2 year old child Luca, the sone of Dino":rofl:
who cares BD ?
whoever comes first with solid finish RAD gets my vote:up:

[zalbard]

Let companies sort it out between themselves if or who ripped off whom. You're not their lawyer. :up:
Just pick a superior product. No one is going to take it away once you buy it, anyway! :D

[DarthBeavis]

lol - so funny you guys think I am out of place for asking the question. Never said to choose which one based on who came up with the idea. The best product is the one people should buy but that does not wash away the question I have raised. My initial point was that the two concepts are most likely closely related and came from one source (then diverged as we can see they went in different directions other than the modular aspect). I stand by that statement.

I wise man one said (or often said) 'The Truth Shall Set You Free'. Hope the truth come out from this thread (perhaps it has already - don't know).

[Kenjiwing]

lol - so funny you guys think I am out of place for asking the question. Never said to choose which one based on who came up with the idea. The best product is the one people should buy but that does not wash away the question I have raised. My initial point was that the two concepts are most likely closely related and came from one source (then diverged as we can see they went in different directions other than the modular aspect). I stand by that statement.

I wise man one said (or often said) 'The Truth Shall Set You Free'. Hope the truth come out from this thread (perhaps it has already - don't know).

What you're not understanding is most people dont care.. they're going to buy the superior product.

Its not up to the consumer to decide whether an idea is copied or stolen..

[DarthBeavis]

What you're not understanding is most people dont care.. they're going to buy the superior product.

Its not up to the consumer to decide whether an idea is copied or stolen..
You think only consumers are reading this thread. This rabbit hole goes much deeper than you think :rofl:

And I did not say WE need to decide I just said I want to know the truth.

[NaeKuh]

oh gowd.... ok... guys.. we spoke enough about the history... lets end it please?

This is a launch... so keep the topic related to this product only and not side step into other products.

The fact that remains, and i dont care if u think this rad is a knock off.... AC is FIRST.

So that being said...

GOOD JOB AC in being FIRST.

Thats all thats need to be said without numbers supporting the rest that needs to be said.

[MegadetHCl]

Gentlemen, it is called a convergent evolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convergent_evolution), where similar features arise from dissimilar sources.

[aoch88]

These looks really nice :) However it might be too thick to fit on top of our cases?

[Waterlogged]

Am I the only one who doesn't see the AC AMS as a "knock-off / copy / whatever" of the other recent German design?

No, your not. This is simply an evolution of their older EVO design IMO.

[Shoggy]

And I did not say WE need to decide I just said I want to know the truth.
The problem is that you will never find the truth since it was already told and you do not want accept it ;)

The first time we took notice about the modular system was Fesers crazy YouTube video, which came AFTER our first announcement. I also knew that when we will officially announce our system in all its details that people like you will come up and think that we have stolen it or whatever. Like Skinee said both are radiators - and here ends their similarities. Our system is very different from theirs, especially the details.

If you still think we came later: that would be even a better honor since it would mean we have done all the development, testing, purchase and production in only a few weeks. I think I should give myself a pat on the back in this case :D

It seems you have some very strange opinions on how much time it takes from an idea to a real product which you can hold in your hands.

Don't take it too serious. It is OK to ask these questions to get an inside on the things behind, but your distrust bothers me a bit ;)

Once and again: we have absolutely no relationship with Feser (or Thermalfins) or any other mysterious people/companies which might be involved in the modularity gate. The AMS is a complete own development, we did not licensed anything for that or tried to copy anything - at least that would also lead to the question what should we copy there? Feser? BIG LOL! I would felt ashamed if there would be a grain of truth with that.

I will have a look into the thread tomorrow for the other questions. Sorry guys, it is pretty late here and I will go to bed now but I just had to response to that to have a calm night :)

[DarthBeavis]

The problem is that you will never find the truth since it was already told and you do not want accept it ;)

The first time we took notice about the modular system was Fesers crazy YouTube video, which came AFTER our first announcement. I also knew that when we will officially announce our system in all its details that people like you will come up and think that we have stolen it or whatever. Like Skinee said both are radiators - and here ends their similarities. Our system is very different from theirs, especially the details.

If you still think we came later: that would be even a better honor since it would mean we have done all the development, testing, purchase and production in only a few weeks. I think I should give myself a pat on the back in this case :D

It seems you have some very strange opinions on how much time it takes from an idea to a real product which you can hold in your hands.

Don't take it too serious. It is OK to ask these questions to get an inside on the things behind, but your distrust bothers me a bit ;)

Once and again: we have absolutely no relationship with Feser (or Thermalfins) or any other mysterious people/companies which might be involved in the modularity gate. The AMS is a complete own development, we did not licensed anything for that or tried to copy anything - at least that would also lead to the question what should we copy there? Feser? BIG LOL! I would felt ashamed if there would be a grain of truth with that.

I will have a look into the thread tomorrow for the other questions. Sorry guys, it is pretty late here and I will go to bed now but I just had to response to that to have a calm night :)As I said, they are to similar to have no connection. I am NOT saying you stole the design and I am not saying they did I am saying one of you two copied the modular aspect or you both got the idea from the same source. After you have seen your design and the Feser design, do you think both companies came up with the design independently? yes or no. You are inside as are the Feser boys. The rest of us don't have the answers. Since you say you did not copy, are you saying Feser did not copy you? Say no and I will just leave it at that

[theseeker]

Any one that doubts Shoggy or Aqua is nuts. I have been dealing with them for close to TEN years and I have never had a problem, period. I was even a reseller for a brief period of time.
You can count on Aqua and Shoggy!

[the_dope_chaud]

watercooling=drama


keeps my computer cool, but we have enough drama in the w/c section to write a sitcom.

[DarthBeavis]

watercooling=drama


keeps my computer cool, but we have enough drama in the w/c section to write a sitcom.

you have not even seen drama . . .trust me it gets even better. or you can go to the over-clocking forum where everyday is a cat fight :ROTF:

I personally think these new rads look :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:in and offer so many possibilities . . .but we still need the drama mamma in this here hoochie. I want Vapor to get a pay raise from all the hours he spends here

[Aedubber]

Who cares anyways? Its not like you guys are doing all the R&D and then coming up with the product anyways lol.. Feser failed in an EPIC way , AC has PASSED, now we just need some testing done asap !! :D

Making such a small thing into a big deal, look at all the barbs and comp fittings that are out there . Look at how cpu and gpu blocks are designed , same ish ..:up:

[CedricFP]

I still don't see the modularity kicking off for those who have only 1 case or prefer "set it and forget it" setups.

I change cases and setups all the time and so the modularity is extremely enticing. But I feel that its application is limited.

[DarthBeavis]

Who cares anyways? Its not like you guys are doing all the R&D and then coming up with the product anyways lol.. Feser failed in an EPIC way , AC has PASSED, now we just need some testing done asap !! :D

Making such a small thing into a big deal, look at all the barbs and comp fittings that are out there . Look at how cpu and gpu blocks are designed , same ish ..:up:we need something to discuss next year at the XS party with all the vendors there :ROTF: these things are not small in some circles

[zeropluszero]

i gotta tell you, if i was shoggy, and i had to stoop to ripping off fester, i'd probably off myself.

[Shoggy]

Any 140.4 versions?Hard to tell at the moment. If we see some demand here we would offer them. That size is just in-between: too large for a case and too small as a large external radiator.



Where can I sign up to become an AC shill?Done.

http://ac.shoggy.de/shill_certification.png

Congratulations! :p:



i want 240mm copper.I'm pretty sure that we will have them available soon too :)



Mind confirming what the tubes are actually made of?The tubes are always made of copper - also in the variants with aluminum fins.



Especially interesting to me seems that integrated module with flow sensor/fan controller and so on .. Shoggy: can you elaborate on it's details?You mean the module with the pump. Not much to say here since I already wrote all interesting things. The sensor is based on our high flow sensor and the controller is the same which we use for the aquastream XT so you also have all options from this pump available. The pump itself is used in our aquaducts since several years now and runs pretty silent and reliable.



Can you say any more about the stand variations that are planned?We will also offer a larger stand which will allow you to place the radiator upstanding so it is like a simple variant of our aquaducts (external all in one solution).



[Can you tell what material is used for AMS watertube (waterchannel) production? Is it different for copper/aluminum models?As mentioned before: the tubes are always made of copper - also in the variants with aluminum fins.



Just curious, why not publish your internal testing results?We never publish our internal numbers because sooner or later there will be always massive conflicts between our results and others - especially when our numbers are better.



Anyways nice Rads any plans on making Radiator sizes for 180mm fans?So far we have no plans for a 180mm variant.



Any photos of those? :DNo, because these parts are in production so I have nothing to take a photo of but thanks to Photoshop we can get an idea of how it it might look:

http://ac.shoggy.de/ams_colors.jpg



These looks really nice :) However it might be too thick to fit on top of our cases?Depends on the case. There are a lot of large cases available where you can easily mount it to the top.



Since you say you did not copy, are you saying Feser did not copy you? Say no and I will just leave it at thatHehe, how should they have do that? Aside from the little announcement that Stephan already linked we never released any details or photos so besides the idea of a modular design there was nothing to copy. Also keep in mind that Feser came up with their video directly after this announcement so for them it would have been also impossible to do everything in so little time ;)

Well, if you need some more confusion: there is also another German company which announced a modular system with some information and photos in March. Their system also looks quite different.

I just think that radiators are the last big battlefield that we have since there was not much innovation in the last years so we have enough space for new developments and products. In other ranges like CPU or GPU blocks the known manufacturers are pretty much on the same level of performance so there is noting to conquer anymore ;)

It is like the 3D hype of the last time. Suddenly we saw 3D TVs everywhere from every company within a short time frame but quite often with different technologies.

[NaeKuh]

red and black with copper = :O
The black and black with copper = :O x 2
The blue and black with copper = :\

Actually shoggy that isnt a great blue :\
You should of matched the giggy baby blue.

Carbon fiber Film with Copper = :O x 3

[Shoggy]

So far I have no idea how the blue frames will look in reality. As said it is only a shopped photo.

[DarthBeavis]

Hard to tell at the moment. If we see some demand here we would offer them. That size is just in-between: too large for a case and too small as a large external radiator.


Done.

http://ac.shoggy.de/shill_certification.png

Congratulations! :p:


I'm pretty sure that we will have them available soon too :)


The tubes are always made of copper - also in the variants with aluminum fins.


You mean the module with the pump. Not much to say here since I already wrote all interesting things. The sensor is based on our high flow sensor and the controller is the same which we use for the aquastream XT so you also have all options from this pump available. The pump itself is used in our aquaducts since several years now and runs pretty silent and reliable.


We will also offer a larger stand which will allow you to place the radiator upstanding so it is like a simple variant of our aquaducts (external all in one solution).


As mentioned before: the tubes are always made of copper - also in the variants with aluminum fins.


We never publish our internal numbers because sooner or later there will be always massive conflicts between our results and others - especially when our numbers are better.


So far we have no plans for a 180mm variant.


No, because these parts are in production so I have nothing to take a photo of but thanks to Photoshop we can get an idea of how it it might look:

http://ac.shoggy.de/ams_colors.jpg


Depends on the case. There are a lot of large cases available where you can easily mount it to the top.


Hehe, how should they have do that? Aside from the little announcement that Stephan already linked we never released any details or photos so besides the idea of a modular design there was nothing to copy. Also keep in mind that Feser came up with their video directly after this announcement so for them it would have been also impossible to do everything in so little time ;)

Well, if you need some more confusion: there is also another German company which announced a modular system with some information and photos in March. Their system also looks quite different.

I just think that radiators are the last big battlefield that we have since there was not much innovation in the last years so we have enough space for new developments and products. In other ranges like CPU or GPU blocks the known manufacturers are pretty much on the same level of performance so there is noting to conquer anymore ;)

It is like the 3D hype of the last time. Suddenly we saw 3D TVs everywhere from every company within a short time frame but quite often with different technologies.
Just because you (or they - not trying to take sides if there are sides to take) did not do a press release of the designs does not mean there cannot be SOME way of information getting out. Can you comment on how similar your two approaches to modularity are?

The 3d analogy does not fit . . .first - there is a 3d industry association that has agreed to some standards (even the HDMI 1.4 standard was worked out with them). Since this is not a 3d topic I will leave it at that but let's just say I deal with 3d a ton.

[kinghong1970]

OMG! Calvin Klein knocked off my Fruit of the Looms briefs!!!

dammit! hanes did it too!

but for f's sake, i'm wearing my fruit of the looms cus it makes my nutsack happy...

what's the big deal... wait for the product to come out, see the tests, and support brand/product with your wallet...

[Church]

Hmm, speaking of colored shrouds for these modular rads .. how about start selling different color/pattern stickers for those shrouds (including Naekuh's favourite carbon fiber pattern :))? With such one should easily be able to change looks of it later on without repainting anything.

[gmat]

To be honest i have seen discussions about rad design improvements long before the appearance of said modular designs, in one of those "watercooling has reached a peak - what now" topics.

[coolhandluke41]

such a big quote and so little to say,give it up BD..enjoy new product

[Shoggy]

Just because you (or they - not trying to take sides if there are sides to take) did not do a press release of the designs does not mean there cannot be SOME way of information getting out. Can you comment on how similar your two approaches to modularity are?
And where should that kind of information leave? With the exception of a few things like purchasing of materials and similar things (exclusively done by the CEOs) I'm responsible for almost the whole external communication in our company and you can be sure that I have no interest at all to share any kind of information with anyone. I'm that kind of a-hole that would tell you that there are no plans on an aquaero 6.0 even when I would know that we will announce it the next day :D

I'm not quite sure if I got your question right and you mean a comparison between our radiators and Fesers. Watch their YouTube video and you have exactly the same amount of information that we have... I don't know the technical details and can only judge by the things we have seen there and a lot is different. Of course the basic idea of being able to modify the radiator in some ways is the same but was solved differently.

[NaeKuh]

So far I have no idea how the blue frames will look in reality. As said it is only a shopped photo.

recommend them that they match the blue in giggy, otherwise having 2 sets of blue looks kinda bad.

Also Carbon fiber film over the shell would look very nice as well.

Other then that, i cant wait to see the finalized colors out of the shop.

[subtec]

Any plans for smaller (92, 80mm) and/or slimmer (~30mm thick) versions of the AMS?

[DarthBeavis]

And where should that kind of information leave? With the exception of a few things like purchasing of materials and similar things (exclusively done by the CEOs) I'm responsible for almost the whole external communication in our company and you can be sure that I have no interest at all to share any kind of information with anyone. I'm that kind of a-hole that would tell you that there are no plans on an aquaero 6.0 even when I would know that we will announce it the next day :D

I'm not quite sure if I got your question right and you mean a comparison between our radiators and Fesers. Watch their YouTube video and you have exactly the same amount of information that we have... I don't know the technical details and can only judge by the things we have seen there and a lot is different. Of course the basic idea of being able to modify the radiator in some ways is the same but was solved differently.I thought perhaps you have common vendors or vertical companies in common. A ways back I heard one designer or such left either Feser or BP and went to the other company - you then saw very similar fittings from the two companies. I do know that alot goes on behind the scenes that normal customers do not know about.

Anyways, I have beaten a dead horse to death. Products look promising - look forward to tests

[Aquatuning]

Now work work to put them around europe :up:

Already done with the first range added to all our sites including UK/USA etc. Can be seen under "New Product" section.

As for this thread its a shame its gone down this road where people have been more fixated on who copied who rather then focusing on the effort Aquacomputer have put in to developing a new product to move watercooling forward.

The various statements implying that AC have copied or even had anything to do with Feser is laughable at best and thats putting it politely.

As Shoggy will know I have been a self confessed fan of Aquacomputer for many many years and in this time i have watched the company evolve from the days of 8/6mm plug in tube and Alu res's to where we are today. At each step of the way AC has developed there own products, in-house with the very best level of quality.

What we should be focusing on is what this new product could offer us - the possibilities are insane with this type of design just the mounting of it alone and yet we can look forward to developments with different ends for pumps and sensors etc.

Great work AC - I look forward to seeing how these develop :up:

[RacingTurtle]

Any plans for an X-flow type rad?
Or is that a patent held by HW labs?
I've found those made tube routing so much easier...

[Aedubber]

How about something important here , shoggy how soon can you get one of.the rads out for testing ? I'm gonna start my build in a few more weeks and this would be a great add to my build pending performance . I would like to see what our testers outcome is with the new design you guys have . Thanks

[DarthBeavis]

The various statements implying that AC have copied or even had anything to do with Feser is laughable at best and thats putting it politely.

I wish I could post in German so you can understand better what I have written. Seems you guys in German do take intellectual property rights seriously though including both design and even your company names :ROTF:

[Shoggy]

Hehe, Aquatuning is Pascal from UK. I guess he doesn't understand German ;)

[MrToad]

Hehe, Aquatuning is Pascal from UK. I guess he doesn't understand German ;)

Pascal from Aqua-PCs? (I'm sorry for the total OT, just stung by the curiosity bug ;) )

[zeropluszero]

i have NEVER been more proud.

[Jiangxue]

i wish there were a thinner version.... =(

[DarthBeavis]

Hehe, Aquatuning is Pascal from UK. I guess he doesn't understand German ;)Is Aquatuning not a German company?

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=226794

[Alexandr0s]

Is Aquatuning not a German company?

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=226794

Yes, but I do believe they have have an office in the UK and the Netherlands as well (not sure though).

[Aquatuning]

Is Aquatuning not a German company?

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=226794

Shoggy is right im English, and work in the UK for Aquatuning

And so much for you not flogging a dead horse I see you are still running around with the trademark link after all this time... :clap:

@ Alexandr0s we offices in most of the countries we have sites :)

@ zeropluszero - i'm Jealous lol!

[DarthBeavis]

Shoggy is right im English, and work in the UK for Aquatuning

And so much for you not flogging a dead horse I see you are still running around with the trademark link after all this time... :clap:

@ Alexandr0s we offices in most of the countries we have sites :)

@ zeropluszero - i'm Jealous lol!
glass houses . . .just saying

[Shoggy]

Any plans for smaller (92, 80mm) and/or slimmer (~30mm thick) versions of the AMS?A 92 or 80 mm variant is very unlikely at the moment. If there are enough people asking for it we will also think about it.
It is already pretty sure that we will offer a thinner variant in the future because we also know the current size is not very suitable for small cases. So far there are no concrete plans for the exact size.



Any plans for an X-flow type rad?I just had to google that and still don't know for sure what it means: that is a radiator where the water goes in on one site, goes through the radiator and leaves on the other site? I don't think that we will offer that.



How about something important here , shoggy how soon can you get one of.the rads out for testing ?The radiator should be ready for shipping in around 2 weeks so also no tester will get it earlier. I guess it will take at least a month before you will see any professional reviews. Very likely that normal customers will provide some numbers before we see a full review.



i wish there were a thinner version.... =(As said above, there will be thinner variants.

[DarthBeavis]

Shoggy, sorry to pollute your thread. Maybe a mod can perform clean up duty?

[Waterlogged]

As for this thread its a shame its gone down this road where people have been more fixated on who copied who rather then focusing on the effort Aquacomputer have put in to developing a new product to move watercooling forward.
Sorry but, until I see valid testing numbers clearly stating these are better than what we have now, these will be considered a step backwards in rad design. These are just a redesign of the AC EVO condenser style rads which most of us stopped using so very long ago. Personally, I hope I'm wrong about these but, my personal experience with condenser style rads says otherwise.


Any plans for an X-flow type rad?
Or is that a patent held by HW labs?
I've found those made tube routing so much easier...

X-flow rads (with the exception of the PA160) have all been proven to be underwhelming performers. They may make routing a loop easier but you pay the comprising price of higher temps for that convince.


Shoggy, sorry to pollute your thread. Maybe a mod can perform clean up duty?

Mods, please don't. I want this to stay as is for the next time he says I'm "illegally hunting". :D;)

@Shoggy, I was glad to see you say there will be a thinner version of these as well. It seems companies these day fixate with a "it's bigger so it must be better" mentality. The problem is, bigger isn't always better and there are a growing number of us that are striving to go smaller and this bigger crap makes our job much much harder. Maybe you should consider at least a 92mm thin version for us mini-ITX guys.

[gmat]

WL, i'll be curious to see the results, as old condenser-style rads used serial flow with a lot of u-turns (and thus totally killed the loop flow to start with) , those have a parallel flow as it seems.

[NaeKuh]

wait shoggy whats my AC title then? :rofl:

Feser -> they think im a waterdam about to break at any given moment..
Swiftech -> sleeping ogre which wakes up periodically.

:rofl:

[Waterlogged]

WL, i'll be curious to see the results, as old condenser-style rads used serial flow with a lot of u-turns (and thus totally killed the loop flow to start with) , those have a parallel flow as it seems.

As will I.

The elbow restriction was only half of the problem with condensers though. The other half is the laminar flow in the tubes and the center of that flow failing to exchange it's heat with the tubes. Maxxx shows a very good picture of this failure in the one sticky.

[PiLsY]

Shoggy did say they'd done some stuff to the inside of the tubes to give them turbulent flow. I can't believe they'd get to market if they were much worse performance wise than current rads. Parallel flow overcomes the massive restriction issues, so I guess we'll just have to wait and see how good a job they've done on tweaking the tubes.

Shoggy - you need to make some 90 degree modular connectors so I can build my case out of rads + 2 plexi side panels plz. Hell itd still be cheaper than a TJ-11 :lol:

[RacingTurtle]

X-flow rads (with the exception of the PA160) have all been proven to be underwhelming performers. They may make routing a loop easier but you pay the comprising price of higher temps for that convince.

Thanks for the info.

[DarthBeavis]

Mods, please don't. I want this to stay as is for the next time he says I'm "illegally hunting". :D;)

meh - I got banZored last time I just joked with you. Definitely not even going to critique anything you do.

[gmat]

I do hope too that the tubes arent purely circular cross section, but rather look like heatpipes.. with kind of fins on the inside. Otherwise indeed it makes less sense than flat tubes, which also restrict less the airflow across them.

[Waterlogged]

meh - I got banZored last time I just joked with you. Definitely not even going to critique anything you do.

Geez, you serious?. . .I had nothing to do with that DB, must have been some thinskinnedmomma'sboypinkocommyf** that doesn't understand your unique sense of Jäger humor. :p: We've bandied back and forth for about 6 yrs now and while we've had a couple disagreements along the way, I've never felt offended enough by anything you've said to have reported it. :toast:

[DarthBeavis]

Vapor wants to make sure we make love not war ;)

[theseeker]

Vapor wants to make sure we make love not war ;)

Please use tubing, I mean a condom.

[Martinm210]

I look forward to some sort of test results of any kind. The different flavors of finned tube designs have been talked about in the forums for a looong time now and not a single one person willing to provide anything test related.

Unlike the others..this one appears to actually have reasonable air contact surface area..It looks really well thought out and it looks really promising:up:

I look forward to someone..anyone..to publish comparative testing. The last few have failed to give us anything test related, so it's been frustrating to constantly hear about new products yet nothing of testing substance to go with it. I see a lot of potential in these CNC fabricated designs...if nothing else the lack of flux crap to clean out would be worth it to many even if the performance is only equal to traditional rads.

Testing..testing..anyone...purdy please..:) This year??????????:shrug:

:D

[Captain H.N.]

No, because these parts are in production so I have nothing to take a photo of but thanks to Photoshop we can get an idea of how it it might look:

http://ac.shoggy.de/ams_colors.jpg

Those are good mockups, thanks. :) What process is being used for getting the colors on?


As said above, there will be thinner variants.

What about thicker/higher-FPI variants? The market is already overloaded with thin/low-FPI rads as it is... :p:

[coolhandluke41]

@ Shoggy..any idea when can we expect copper 240's ?
Thanks

[Aedubber]

I think it would be ideal to provide some type of testing results for the community no? I mean if you have good results , then youll have a large sale once they come available , but if they perform like most rads out then i dunno..

[zeropluszero]

X-flow rads (with the exception of the PA160) have all been proven to be underwhelming performers. They may make routing a loop easier but you pay the comprising price of higher temps for that convince.
if any manufacturer could make a cross flow radiator to rival the performance and flow of my PA140.3, id hit the buy button in a nanosecond.
I can't think of how many times ive redone my loops to say, S.hit if only I had a cross flowing rad.

[RacingTurtle]

Ja, this is what I would like to see - anyone have any info why the Xflow doesnt perform? Or was it just a great idea done badly?

[MonkeyBacon]

I think it would be ideal to provide some type of testing results for the community no? I mean if you have good results , then youll have a large sale once they come available , but if they perform like most rads out then i dunno..

This. Unless these perfrom 25%+ better than existing rads then they are just bling. i love the look, I love the concept but I do not love the price unless the price is buying me substantially better cooling.

[BIGJOHNH24]

When will they be available in the US

[SpuTnicK]

i never got an answer to a question on what materials are used for radiator tube?
Obviously cooper fined version has copper tubes. What about aluminum fined version?

[Church]

Imho this modularity system will shine most with similarly modular external radmount line. As in - at beginning one buys basic 3-section sized one, but in for future more hotter hardware one can easily bolt on extra sections to both rad and radstand box to easily extend cooling performance on need-to basis.

[zalbard]

i never got an answer to a question on what materials are used for radiator tube?
Obviously cooper fined version has copper tubes. What about aluminum fined version?
Yes, you did...

The tubes are always made of copper - also in the variants with aluminum fins.

[Shoggy]

What process is being used for getting the colors on?It will be anodized aluminum.


@ Shoggy..any idea when can we expect copper 240's ?It is already on the to do list and should be available soon.


When will they be available in the USSidewinder Computers and FrozenCPU should get them when delivery starts.

[teknokid]

Wow! I've not seen this before, looks really interesting. Must be a PITA producing all the little pieces to link it all together though.

[RCG_Bex]

Please use tubing, I mean a condom.

You sir, owe me a coffee.... either a Posh coffe (the 50p coffee vending machine as opposed to the free coffee machine) or a freshly made 1!

...

...

...just spat it out all over my keyboard at work :shakes:

[SpuTnicK]

Yes, you did...
:doh:
how did i missed that. thanks

[Boogerlad]

Thanks for the info.
and here's the explanation, if you haven't seen it before. http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=100862

[Captain H.N.]

It will be anodized aluminum.

Okay, that's what I thought, thanks. :) What about the other question?

[Shoggy]

Don't know but unlikely at the moment since we have more than enough to do with the current variants ;)

[quattro_]

what are the dimensions of the 360 standard ?

[BIGJOHNH24]

can you tell us which month or year they will ship to the USA

[Royteane]

Shoggy,

I believed that you already finished in-house comparison with airplex revolution 420/360. Can you provide some info such as "about 12% c/w better than revo", "a little bit more flow restriction"... whatever? At least we can have something in mind how good it is.

[UrbanSmooth]

Interested in seeing the reviews on these.

[Shoggy]

what are the dimensions of the 360 standard ?The basic dimensions of the radiators are always

Length: fan size + 44 (e.g. 3 x 120 + 44 = 404)
Height: 63.5
Width: 146

The variants with a pump and integrated reservoir are 25 mm higher (= the height of the fans).

The pump modules without the pump are 26 mm longer so you have to add a total of 70 mm to the fan size.

The D5 pump sticks out another 36.5 mm while the compact 600 pump sticks out 35 mm downward.

Example for a normal 3 x 120 mm radiator without any special module.

Length: 3 x 120 + 44 = 404
Height: 63.5
Width: 146

[Kenjiwing]

Any updates on reviews or testers getting units? Id love to grab one of these http://shop.aquacomputer.de/product_info.php?products_id=2735 but will not until I see some reviews or real #s...

[Royteane]

I saw skinnee's airplex revo420 review in Saturday, found that it's on par or even better than pa140.3. I more than80% believe that new one is bettr plus Cu fin and very good cs like shoggy. I ordered 2 of ams420cu thru my local reseller. I think its price is more reasonable than Failser Company's Jack Sparrow

[Waterlogged]

I saw skinnee's airplex revo420 review in Saturday, found that it's on par or even better than pa140.3. I more than80% believe that new one is bettr plus Cu fin and very good cs like shoggy. I ordered 2 of ams420cu thru my local reseller. I think its price is more reasonable than Failser Company's Jack Sparrow

...but that is a traditional style flat tube rad whereas this is a modified round tube condenser style rad, which was shunned a number of years ago due to high restriction and poor thermal transfer. :shrug:

[Martinm210]

...but that is a traditional style flat tube rad whereas this is a modified round tube condenser style rad, which was shunned a number of years ago due to high restriction and poor thermal transfer. :shrug:
+1

Traditional and this is the CNC fabrication format using round tubes. Flat tubes are technically better at transferring heat than round and some companies such as HWlabs have even gone to using very thin flat tubes just for this reason.

Supposedly some of these round tubes may have rifling to mitigate the problem, but without performance data...who knows..

[Royteane]

+1

Traditional and this is the CNC fabrication format using round tubes. Flat tubes are technically better at transferring heat than round and some companies such as HWlabs have even gone to using very thin flat tubes just for this reason.

Supposedly some of these round tubes may have rifling to mitigate the problem, but without performance data...who knows..

Yeah I understand about this fact and believe in the same in physics theory. I'd like to try thinking everything upside down, forget physics ,believe in marketing....

-3 companies(weather F company and t company might be together counted as one:D), professional in this industry launching new rad with very similar concept. I think this concept is something worth for consideration.
-I have 2 of PA140.3 on hand and have to stay with its smell(flux, welding, color, etc)
-Among 3 companies, which one has the best reputation(personnally thought: AQC they own every related product Waterblock reservoir Pumptop)
-StainlessSteel tube + Aluminium fin Vs CopperTube + Copperfin
-If I'm the owner of these company, I won't let the new released crap and suffer with the complain.
-Again it's A company not F company
-Like Martin ever said that if its performance is similar without any flux, then it's better.

Just want to share my funny weird logic to you, it's ok for me if it loked crazy ;). If the test result is :down:, I'm happy to tell everyone in my country WC society that it's :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana: and :hump::hump::hump::hump::hump::hump:
And won't believe in marketing anymore :D

[subtec]

I didn't see this addressed anywhere (sorry if I missed it) - will these be offered with anodized or painted fins at some point?

[Shoggy]

There are no plans to offer them with painted/anodized fins.

[ohms]

Any update as to when we will see these in the US and when is someone going to do a review and put up numbers!

[thegcpu]

Any update as to when we will see these in the US and when is someone going to do a review and put up numbers!

Available in the US, what are you talking about? They are not even shipping…

Maybe first quarter of next year.

[Royteane]

I saw some of 360 Copper delivered, how about 420?

[Aquatuning]

Available in the US, what are you talking about? They are not even shipping…

Maybe first quarter of next year.

O'Rly?! Stock here $8 24 hour delivery ;) (http://www.aquatuning.us/manufacturers.php/manufac/4/manufacname/Aquacomputer/categ/25/categname/-b-Radiators--b-.html)

[matari]

I don't mind taking a slight performance hit to gain some functionality.

[D749]

I just ordered (2) Airplex Modularity Rad System 360mm (Copper Fins, One Circuit, Stainless Side Panels) for a future build. :D

[D749]

Perhaps I should have considered this before buying two of these rads... if the threads are counter-sunk (as opposed to raised) how is one suppose to connect fittings to this radiator without using some sort of adapter fitting? :shakes:

[dustyshiv]

According to this picture, the stopper doesnt have any threads to secure it to the Rad. Do you think those two O-Rings will sustain the water pressure in the loop and keep the stopper in place?

http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/apm_stack_5_k.jpg

I have an Alphacool Cape Cora with similar stoppers and fitting connector as shown....these too have no threads to hold them on to the rad. On full force of the pump the entire connector with the barb connected just pops out. I wasted money on this...


http://www.alphacool.com/images/product_images/popup_images/759_0.jpg


http://www.watercoolinguk.co.uk/images/product_images/large/_36072_0.jpg

Thnx,
Shiv

[Lutfi]

@ D749 - whats news wid your aquacomputer rad? having any troubles with the counter sunk threading? i want to get some compression fittings as well...would i need an adapter?

[D749]

@ D749 - whats news wid your aquacomputer rad? having any troubles with the counter sunk threading? i want to get some compression fittings as well...would i need an adapter?

You will need a riser if you're using 3/4" 1/2" BP compression fittings or Koolance QD fittings. There isn't enough room to tighten then down as the recessed hole is not wide enough. However, the angled BP fittings fit just fine since they're thin. Luckily I plan to use angled fittings before my QD fittings.

[Lutfi]

but barbs are good to go with them rads right? thanks for the info :)

[Royteane]

Yesterday I cleaned my AMS420CU with hot water. its fin was not so hot, when I did the same thing with PA140.3 the fin was untouchable. And also the cold water, AMS seems more innert to temperature changed.
I don't know this is better or worse than PA140.3

[BrokenArrow]

Yesterday I cleaned my AMS420CU with hot water. its fin was not so hot, when I did the same thing with PA140.3 the fin was untouchable. And also the cold water, AMS seems more innert to temperature changed.
I don't know this is better or worse than PA140.3

This is not a good thing. This indicates to me that there is less heat transfer to the fins from the tubes.

[Lutfi]

did you post this issue on the site that you ordered from or maybe even towards AC's support?

[Royteane]

did you post this issue on the site that you ordered from or maybe even towards AC's support?
Not yet, I have 2 of it and they have the same result. So that I think they're working as designed not a flawed product from manufacturing.

[Lutfi]

here have a read at this: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/183135-29-copper-aluminium

so the fins not heating instantly is due to the coppers thermal properties :)

[Royteane]

here have a read at this: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/183135-29-copper-aluminium

so the fins not heating instantly is due to the coppers thermal properties :)
By the mentioned thread, I imply that copper needs high speed fan :(

[Lutfi]

nothing scythe AP-15's can't handle but coppers properties would just mean that you'll have a noisy setup...

[gmat]

What the hell, copper has BETTER heat transfer properties (and heat transfer goes at the same rate regardless of direction, we're talking about isotropic materials here chaps), it means it needs less surface area to be as effective as aluminium, or otherwise said it would imply less noise. What would make you think the other way ?

[Lutfi]

dug this up to support your claims also :)

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187162

[Royteane]

Next time I'll use temp probe and stopwatch for an Apple - apple test. :)

[Lutfi]

but how are you liking them rads? i'm on the same boat but every site thas had it stocked are dwindled or out of stock :/

[Royteane]

I place order thru my country importer and waited since June.

[gmat]

dug this up to support your claims also :)

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187162
ah yes thank you


k for alum = 237 W/m^2*K
k for Cu = 401 W /m^2*K

this is what is relevant, i forgot the exact figures myself...

[Lutfi]

:up: gmat

but i'd want to see what sort of temps these rads can give out - thus the sort of OC'ing headroom.

[auroraepc]

You will need a riser if you're using 3/4" 1/2" BP compression fittings or Koolance QD fittings. There isn't enough room to tighten then down as the recessed hole is not wide enough. However, the angled BP fittings fit just fine since they're thin. Luckily I plan to use angled fittings before my QD fittings.

I have ordered the Aquacomputer airplex modularity system 360 mm, copper fins, two circuits, stainless steel side panels: -
http://www.aquatuning.co.uk/product_info.php/info/p12466_Aquacomputer-airplex-modularity-system-360-mm--copper-fins--two-circuits--stainless-steel-side-panels.html

And I have also ordered the QDC (High Flow) No-Spill Shutoff Male, Threaded G 1/4: -
https://www.koolance.com/water-cooling/product_info.php?product_id=888

Will these fit or should I be ordering some adapter or new fittings all together. 1st venture into water cooling and hoping to do the build over Christmas. I wouldn't want to end up delaying due to incompatible fittings. Help very much appreciated.

[stren]

Still no reviews on these? I really want to believe they're better and worth the money.

I also wish there was a copper 140.5, but that's another story :)

[Lutfi]

the AMS can be extended... and yeah i'm also waiting out on reviews. Terrible to see these thingies cost more for nothing at all.

[stren]

the AMS can be extended... and yeah i'm also waiting out on reviews. Terrible to see these thingies cost more for nothing at all.

Yeah but making it out of a 140.3 and a 140.2 not only increases the cost a bunch, but it may no longer fit in the case due to the extra overhead :(

GTX560 vs AMS 140.5 vs 180.3 - I'm still thinking the gtx560 is going to be the highest performer for AP15 levels of airflow despite the surface area advantages of the others.

[BeepBeep2]

Still no reviews on these? I really want to believe they're better and worth the money.

I also wish there was a copper 140.5, but that's another story :)
http://skinneelabs.com/2011-2012-radiator-comparison/2/
http://skinneelabs.com/assets/images/Radiators/V2/2011-Rads_maxflow.png

http://skinneelabs.com/2011-2012-radiator-comparison/3/
http://skinneelabs.com/assets/images/Radiators/V2/2011-Rads_watts-rpm-16.png

[Waterlogged]

http://skinneelabs.com/2011-2012-radiator-comparison/2/
http://skinneelabs.com/assets/images/Radiators/V2/2011-Rads_maxflow.png

http://skinneelabs.com/2011-2012-radiator-comparison/3/
http://skinneelabs.com/assets/images/Radiators/V2/2011-Rads_watts-rpm-16.png

Wrong AC rad. ;)

[barfastic]

Still nothing bout these eh?

Pfff.... im dying to find out how they perform!!!

[drahte1905]

Any 140.4 versions?

Hard to tell at the moment. If we see some demand here we would offer them. That size is just in-between: too large for a case and too small as a large external radiato[

Aren't 120.3 and 140.3 in same width which is 146mm ?

So SS side panels of the 120.4 unit can be modified to fit 4 X 140mm fans ? Am I wrong ? If this is feasible ship me one 120.4 with integrated pump :D

[WFO]

Come on Shoggy, give!!! :) Does your own internal testing show the airplex mod 360 RAD to perform better than the Revo 360? This is a simple yes or no. No answer = no to any potential customers. :( With zero data available I suspect you will have very few willing to pay more than double the price of a Revo or Monsta. :rolleyes:

[rangerone7669]

very nice, and innovated. i like alot

[SpuTnicK]

sorry if this is old news but have you seen the continuation of AMS - Airplex GIGANT (http://aquacomputer.de/newsreader/items/eine-neue-dimension-im-radiatorenmarkt---airplex-gigant.html)
http://aquacomputer.de/system/html/ams_gigant_1-0ebcdd97.jpg

[Brodholm]

Still no reviews?!?

Skinnee should have gotten one right?

[stren]

bump for some review love! Hard to justify any extra money for these if there's no reviews!

[matari]

From what I have heard, they perform slightly less thermally than a standard radiator, but they are easier to bleed and clean. Of course there is no evidence of this because I have yet to see a realistic review.

[Martinm210]

It's too GIGANT for my test bench...:)

[stren]

The regular 120s and 140s wouldn't be though :) Come on shoggy send martin a (preferably all copper) sample!

[WFO]

Holy S! If looks and machine quality are any indication of performance, these radiators are a 911 Turbo S compared to a Chevy Volt. A MotoGP bike compared to an off the showroom GSXR 1000. :yepp: The finished product is gorgeous!!! It makes my Thermochill PAs look trash-bin worthy. I have to say Aquatuning.US ships faster then U.S counterparts. My 120X2 single loop shipped Friday and arrived today. :) A 7970 shipped from the Egg Thursday won't arrive till tomorrow. :shakes: After experiencing dismal performance from a DD SR-1 240, (a $35 air cooled heat sink equaled the performance of the SR-1 on my 3960x as mounted. :-( ) I started shopping for a new radiator. This is just water-cooling Pr0n! :yepp: Despite not a single review, lust got the better of me. I'm still waiting for my IX. SR-1/ Apogee HD mount were with MX-4 purchased when Petra's was still Petra's. :rolleyes: If I don't get better than 4C improvement the rad will have to be resting on top of my HAF 942 instead of mounted internally. :( Frozencpu just has aluminum fin models. I had to have copper. :p: Is it Saturday yet? I've got rebuilding to do. :rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Royteane]

Holy S! If looks and machine quality are any indication of performance, these radiators are a 911 Turbo S compared to a Chevy Volt. A MotoGP bike compared to an off the showroom GSXR 1000. :yepp: The finished product is gorgeous!!! It makes my Thermochill PAs look trash-bin worthy. I have to say Aquatuning.US ships faster then U.S counterparts. My 120X2 single loop shipped Friday and arrived today. :) A 7970 shipped from the Egg Thursday won't arrive till tomorrow. :shakes: After experiencing dismal performance from a DD SR-1 240, (a $35 air cooled heat sink equaled the performance of the SR-1 on my 3960x as mounted. :-( ) I started shopping for a new radiator. This is just water-cooling Pr0n! :yepp: Despite not a single review, lust got the better of me. I'm still waiting for my IX. SR-1/ Apogee HD mount were with MX-4 purchased when Petra's was still Petra's. :rolleyes: If I don't get better than 4C improvement the rad will have to be resting on top of my HAF 942 instead of mounted internally. :( Frozencpu just has aluminum fin models. I had to have copper. :p: Is it Saturday yet? I've got rebuilding to do. :rofl::rofl::rofl:
Your rig is almost the same as mine, I got 2 of PA140.3 and 2of AMS420CU. But I personally not so happy with AC machining in finishing process. The endmill route on the derlin part of the rad is very rough. I also own their rad mounting plate due to its fan spacing is unable to mount on any plate, there is a lot of sharp edge allover the plate.

[subtec]

There's a review (http://pureoverclock.com/review.php?id=1433&page=1) up on this rad. It did surprisingly well - better than I would've expected given the design (round tubes):

http://i.imgur.com/xVELn.jpg

Almost too good.

The downside: it's very restrictive. And pricey.

[LLiH]

IS it worth an upgrade to AMS-360 from RX360?

[Royteane]

I'm not surprise about 360competition result, the ams width is the same as140 rad just shorter. So best way to judge its performance is comparing among 420.

[subtec]

I'm not surprise about 360competition result, the ams width is the same as140 rad just shorter. So best way to judge its performance is comparing among 420.

I don't know if that would account for that great a difference. Consider the SR-1 is 133mm wide, vs. the AMS at 146mm; that's only a 10% difference in width, yet the difference in performance is closer to 50%. The AMS does have a relatively thick core though - around twice the SR-1 IIRC, which probably accounts for much of it.

[Martinm210]

There's a review (http://pureoverclock.com/review.php?id=1433&page=1) up on this rad. It did surprisingly well - better than I would've expected given the design (round tubes):

http://i.imgur.com/xVELn.jpg

Almost too good.


The downside: it's very restrictive. And pricey.


0 RPM 315W 13C delta results?

I find that interesting when I couldn't make an exchanger 480 do 100 watts and had to shut down when water temps went over a 19C delta. This would be the first time I have seen someone say you can run conventional radiators passively with a substantial 315W load.

I'll dig up that old test...


Rad looks good though, I like the 146mm width and solderless construction.

[Trox]

Those are great results!

The only drawback is his high restriction.

[Lutfi]

reading up on the review as I'm typing this... *thumbsup*

[Waterlogged]

0 RPM 315W 13C delta results?

I find that interesting when I couldn't make an exchanger 480 do 100 watts and had to shut down when water temps went over a 30C delta. This would be the first time I have seen someone say you can run conventional radiators passively with a substantial 315W load.

I think I'll go unplug my fans and see what happens....lol!


Rad looks good though, I like the 146mm width and solderless construction.

He used a 300W heater and says in the review that water was 32°C in the res, that's how he did it. I see other little bits of fud in the review as well but I'll leave them be because it's not worth me ranting about. ;) :rolleyes:

[Martinm210]

FYI,
Here is that old passive (0 RPM) test I tried, but failed to reach equilibrium on using a TFC480 radiator and only a 100W heat load.
http://martinsliquidlab.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/passivetfc480failed1.png?w=614

I gave up after 3 hours..

I guess I was wrong in the 30C delta (19C delta which was still climbing at 1/3rd the heat load when I quit).

[iboomalot]

stupid question if the air is passive then there is no air in and out just radiated heat.

how did you get a air in and out with no fans??

wouldn't air in technically be roon ambient and air out the heat given off the fins??

[Martinm210]

He used a 300W heater and says in the review that water was 32°C in the res, that's how he did it. I see other little bits of fud in the review as well but I'll leave them be because it's not worth me ranting about. ;) :rolleyes:

Ahh, perhaps he was trying to measure temp drop across the rads and calculate calormetrically, not sure. I know the aquareo tries to do that, but I've yet to find themal probes accurate enough to do calormetric heat conversions with. Even with eight digital dallas probes in my V2 bench, my delta T across the rad is not consistent enough to trust calorie conversions.

Not sure..

[Martinm210]

stupid question if the air is passive then there is no air in and out just radiated heat.

how did you get a air in and out with no fans??

wouldn't air in technically be roon ambient and air out the heat given off the fins??

Convection

Just like a wood stove vent pipe, heat rises. My thermal probes were under the radiator and through convection the heat does move up and through the radiator...just not nearly enough to do normal radiator heat dissipation with. I think that old test I had one more probe more remote so I could just log general ambient.

You can see the air in sensor being affected by radiant heat here though and why I included the additional sensor. This is why I moved them further away in my V2 bench.

Radiator testing is really difficult and easy to mess up. I've made plenty of mistakes myself, but without the logging of the data I wouldn't see or know it.

Regardless, I would like to test this rad myself in my upcoming 360 round. I'll see if I can round one up..:)

[c.ruel]

Martin surely when running a radiator passively it is radiation not convection? I can't remember my GCSE physics very well lol.

[Lutfi]

it radiates heat to its surroundings but then you have convection currents take place, since cooler air will want to replace the hotter displaced air.

[AmuseMe]

Does anyone know how they keep their copper fins from oxidizing? Clear coat?

[Waterlogged]

Ahh, perhaps he was trying to measure temp drop across the rads and calculate calormetrically, not sure. I know the aquareo tries to do that, but I've yet to find themal probes accurate enough to do calormetric heat conversions with. Even with eight digital dallas probes in my V2 bench, my delta T across the rad is not consistent enough to trust calorie conversions.

Not sure..

Here is the exact testing method used.


Test Setup and Methodology
For thermal performance test we use a heat load simulator instead of using a CPU as the heat source. The heat simulator consists of three water heaters with the maximum power output up to 600w and they are capable of keeping the water heated to 32°C. First, the water in the reservoir will be heated to bring its temperature up to 32°C, and the temperature kept consistent by the heater’s thermostat. A Kill-A-Watt meter is used to measure the actual total power consumption by the heaters.

The heat loads are applied to the radiator via the MCP655 pump, and two water temperature probes inserted at inlet and outlet ports of the radiator to measure the water-in and discharge temperatures. Several thermal probes are used to measure ambient temperature and water temperature in the reservoir. The test will be run for 30 minutes and temperatures recorded at every 5 minutes interval then averaged out for the final results.
Test Equipment:

300W Water Heater
320W Meanwell PSU
8x Thermal probles
Scythe Kraze Master Pro fan controller
3x 120mm Ultra Kaze, 3000RPM fans
Digital Timer
26L reservoir
2 x Ballvale
MCP35X pump + EK X-Top

Maximum Flow Test
This test determines how restrictive the block is. We used absolute flow rate calculation method for the test. First we need to find out the maximum flow rate of the water source, which is the MCP655 pump. Flows are measured in one minute cycle, then the radiator is installed into the water loop and flow is then measured and subtracted from the maximum flow of the pump to determine the drop in flow. However, this measurement method introduces some degree of human error, which is why 3 tests are conducted and then averaged out for the final result recorded.
Thermal Performance
For thermal performance test, we look at two tests. The first is the performance with various fan speeds and their effect on the radiators when a set head load is applied. As we know, some radiators perform better as low-airflow or high-airflow solutions. The second thermal test factors in the thermal resistance (C/W) of the radiator, and we then apply the results to the given heat load (315W) of the average of 10°C Delta T to determine radiator heat dissipation capability.

Multiple tests were conducted and the best results are used for the final comparison. We compare against a few other popular radiators on the market to gauge the effectiveness of the AMS.

[Martinm210]

Yeah, it's convection, just like a oil filled radiator:
http://hatteras.meas.ncsu.edu/secc_edu/images/Convection2.jpg

They must use different heaters than I have. My aquarium heaters switch full on full off, perhaps they have something that automatically adjusts the heat load to hold a fixed temperature, or at least that's what it sort of sounds like?

[iboomalot]

you measured the bottom air temps vs the upper air temps got it.

[D749]

Glad to see positive results considering I bought two of them in copper. One mounted... one to go.

http://www.thedigitalfoundry.com/images/water/aquacomputer/ams_mounted.png

[Philwong]

There's a review (http://pureoverclock.com/review.php?id=1433&page=1) up on this rad. It did surprisingly well - better than I would've expected given the design (round tubes):

The downside: it's very restrictive. And pricey.

And the reviewer failed to reiterate the high flow resistance and cited "no mounting screws" instead. :rofl:

Phil

[stren]

Interesting - Martin if you can get these both it would be worth checking the full copper vs vanilla. If you're paying out of pocket, then maybe not lol.