What if the gulf spill never happened?

[Cooper]

http://wimp.com/gulfspill/

interesting statistics

[FlawleZ]

Somewhat interesting statistics.

[Hondacity]

very interesting statistics.

[DTU_XaVier]

Interesting statistics... And the message is already well known... But one fact that he forgets to mention is, that ALL the things THAT particular oil could've been used for, were still made, so there's no "benefit" at all to the oil having been spilt into the ocean...

Best Regards :toast:

[Nikolasz]

Electric cars and, cars that run on water. That tech is out 20 years.

I will not say anything else here.

[Kallenator]

I honestly think the most interesting aspect of this is that the same thing happened 30 years ago. And we really haven't improved our way to clean the mess up even though this is one of the most profitable industries.
See: "Ixtoc I oil spill"

As far as the spill vs consumption goes, one can only guess what is worse. This however is not the point, the point is drive less and consume less. Almost everyone can do that and should. =)

While on the subject, those of you who are familiar with the "front fell off" sketch would probably find this funny:
Clarke and Dawe - The US Oil Spill
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClvLp4vXJ5I&feature=fvwrel

[Mean Machine]

I want my two minutes back. That sucked.

[Sparky]

As far as the spill vs consumption goes, one can only guess what is worse. This however is not the point, the point is drive less and consume less. Almost everyone can do that and should. =)

No I can't, and no I won't.

[prava]

No I can't, and no I won't.

You should be enforced to, then. The only way to make oil last longer is by improving productivity, aka improving the efficiency of the engines. Yes, that means having less HP and having less fun. Buts its what it is.
Your position is plain and simple as stupid as it can be. Would you waste 2 extra hours for the same job you can do in 2? No, because you try to be efficient. So, lets try to be more efficient on everything else.


Electric cars and, cars that run on water. That tech is out 20 years.

I will not say anything else here.

Electric cars?!?!? They are just a dream, nothing else. And they are only because you need oil to run the power plants that recharge the batteries they have. And by water you mean hydrogen, good luck finding hydrogen without power plants, unless you get it from gas ;) Either way its a stupid way of losing power.

Either we move all our power to nuclear-based (fusion, in a not-so-far, I hope, future) or we stay as we are.

[Gamekiller]

Now, now. Keep it CLEAN you guys....

BAM! See what I did there? :rofl:

[Sparky]

You should be enforced to, then. The only way to make oil last longer is by improving productivity, aka improving the efficiency of the engines. Yes, that means having less HP and having less fun. Buts its what it is.
Your position is plain and simple as stupid as it can be. Would you waste 2 extra hours for the same job you can do in 2? No, because you try to be efficient. So, lets try to be more efficient on everything else.

First - FORCING people to do something you want them to do isn't what this country is all about. But I won't flesh out the details because that'll get political in nature real quick. Besides, I'm not being wasteful, I'm being bluntly honest. I CANNOT reduce how much I drive without negatively impacting my effectiveness at work.

Second - I DO NOT have a high HP fun car. I have an SUV. And don't start on me with any "oh evil SUV" crap because I use it as one. Yes, I do drive around with just me in it at times, but other times I have it stuffed full of equipment. I'm sorry but a compact car cannot do what I need it to do.

Third - your analogy fails. Driving car X instead of car Y is not the same as wasting 2 hours at work :rolleyes:

[MikeB12]

Sparky, Don't worry about Prava.. he's known to have some unrealistic ideology and comments based on instantaneous emotion....

as far as the SUV gas guzzler mentality, that is changing in the industry. I drive a kia sportage that gets 23mpg with a v6. The Mazda Tribute gets +30mpg...
We all have to get to and from work to make a living. It's a necessity.

if we really want to address the mpg/efficiency issue; lets address the aging 18 wheeler diesel truck industry that transports product, wastes, and fuel across the country everyday at 4-7 mpg....


the bottom line is we will become more efficient, as proven by consumer auto development. 10 yrs ago a suv got 10mpg, now it's getting 20mpg.

but why are the old diesel hauler's still on the road at 4-7mpg?

[Gamekiller]

Sparky, Don't worry about Prava.. he's known to have some unrealistic ideology and comments based on instantaneous emotion....

as far as the SUV gas guzzler mentality, that is changing in the industry. I drive a kia sportage that gets 23mpg with a v6. The Mazda Tribute gets +30mpg...
We all have to get to and from work to make a living. It's a necessity.

if we really want to address the mpg/efficiency issue; lets address the aging 18 wheeler diesel truck industry that transports product, wastes, and fuel across the country everyday at 4-7 mpg....


the bottom line is we will become more efficient, as proven by consumer auto development. 10 yrs ago a suv got 10mpg, now it's getting 20mpg.

but why are the old diesel hauler's still on the road at 4-7mpg?

Yeah, and what about large ships as well. I can't remember the exact amount but I remember being amazed! Oh, and airplanes also. :eek:

[MikeB12]

Yeah, and what about large ships as well. I can't remember the exact amount but I remember being amazed! Oh, and airplanes also. :eek:

no shiite, the big cruise ships burn lie 17 gallons per mile.... who knows what the military burns in maritime and aviation fuel for the fleet...

wake up prava.....

[Nanometer]

no shiite, the big cruise ships burn lie 17 gallons per mile.... who knows what the military burns in maritime and aviation fuel for the fleet...

wake up prava.....

Actually cruise ships use in the neighborhood of 100-200 gallons per mile, of course depending on engine specifications.

[jimmyz]

if we really want to address the mpg/efficiency issue; lets address the aging 18 wheeler diesel truck industry that transports product, wastes, and fuel across the country everyday at 4-7 mpg....


the bottom line is we will become more efficient, as proven by consumer auto development. 10 yrs ago a suv got 10mpg, now it's getting 20mpg.

but why are the old diesel hauler's still on the road at 4-7mpg?

Ummm they aren't. I drove over the road in the 90s and my detroit series 60 engine turned in 11MPG while pulling 80,000 pounds gross. gotta think that has been improved alot since then.

I caught crap from people when I drove my 97 Ram 3500 dually 4X4 as well. It averaged 21MPG highway and 17MPG in town (Cummins turbo) My 97 chevy blazer uses more fuel than it did.

[prava]

First - FORCING people to do something you want them to do isn't what this country is all about. But I won't flesh out the details because that'll get political in nature real quick. Besides, I'm not being wasteful, I'm being bluntly honest. I CANNOT reduce how much I drive without negatively impacting my effectiveness at work.

I was not talking about "share your car with 7 other peeps" but about "use it as much as you need, but no excesses". I perfectly understand that in the US everybody is fully dependant on its car unless you live in a huge city because public transport is barely non-existant, but I was talking about the fact that the average engine is size is pretty much huge in comparison to Europe (and wonder why should it that be, for any other thing that wasn't wasting fuel).


Second - I DO NOT have a high HP fun car. I have an SUV. And don't start on me with any "oh evil SUV" crap because I use it as one. Yes, I do drive around with just me in it at times, but other times I have it stuffed full of equipment. I'm sorry but a compact car cannot do what I need it to do.

My post didn't mentino crap about SUV or the like. Why do you people do free interpretations of what I wrote?


Third - your analogy fails. Driving car X instead of car Y is not the same as wasting 2 hours at work :rolleyes:

Kinda, yes. If you need more petrol to do the same distance you are obviously not very efficient. But of course, I was not talking about having a 1.4L 70BHP that won't take you anyway nor about not having SUV: I only posted because of that comment you did: "No, I won't consume less" that itched me.

Anyway, oil prices will enforce that for anybody that respects his/her wallet.

[Sparky]

I was not talking about "share your car with 7 other peeps" but about "use it as much as you need, but no excesses". I perfectly understand that in the US everybody is fully dependant on its car unless you live in a huge city because public transport is barely non-existant, but I was talking about the fact that the average engine is size is pretty much huge in comparison to Europe (and wonder why should it that be, for any other thing that wasn't wasting fuel).

Well, for example, a small engine in my truck would be utterly useless. The thing is 4600 pounds, a 2L engine can't reasonably handle that and the cargo it can haul. And europe is generally denser populated than many parts of the USA so a small engine for putting around works fine. That doesn't work well here.


My post didn't mentino crap about SUV or the like. Why do you people do free interpretations of what I wrote?

I know it didn't. But I was just mentioning it just in case, as I know some people's instant reactions to the mention of SUVs if I say I drive one ;)


Kinda, yes. If you need more petrol to do the same distance you are obviously not very efficient. But of course, I was not talking about having a 1.4L 70BHP that won't take you anyway nor about not having SUV: I only posted because of that comment you did: "No, I won't consume less" that itched me.

Anyway, oil prices will enforce that for anybody that respects his/her wallet.

No, I won't consume less because I CAN'T consume less. I don't go out driving just because. If I'm driving somewhere, there is a good reason behind it.

Why let the fact that many people cannot reduce usage bother you so much? Nothing you nor they can do about it.

Honestly, your expectations (demands?) aren't realistic.

[Kallenator]

No I can't, and no I won't.

I don't want to be judgemental, I just like to think that we at least should try too improve. And we do as it may just have the positive effect of saving money ;)


as far as the SUV gas guzzler mentality, that is changing in the industry. I drive a kia sportage that gets 23mpg with a v6. The Mazda Tribute gets +30mpg...

Not too bad for an SUV imo.


We all have to get to and from work to make a living. It's a necessity.

Yeah, but the SUV flaming kinda spawns from the fact that commuting to work really does not need to be is such a huge car, but that does not change the fact that some people really don't have a choice.


if we really want to address the mpg/efficiency issue; lets address the aging 18 wheeler diesel truck industry that transports product, wastes, and fuel across the country everyday at 4-7 mpg....

An 18 wheeler is pretty efficient mpg/ton, far better than most SUV and even smaller passenger cars.


the bottom line is we will become more efficient, as proven by consumer auto development. 10 yrs ago a suv got 10mpg, now it's getting 20mpg.

You still get 10mpg SUV's, it has been and will always be strongly correlated to engine performance.
People really need to understand that 100hp/ton is more than decent. =)


but why are the old diesel hauler's still on the road at 4-7mpg?

Not every freight firm has the economy to stay on top of the line at all time and it's not necessarily such a huge gain from buying a new one that they can justify it.


no shiite, the big cruise ships burn lie 17 gallons per mile.... who knows what the military burns in maritime and aviation fuel for the fleet...

wake up prava.....

MS Freedom of the Seas spends 1400 gallons of fuel for every mile. (With a march speed of 18 knots)
Still though, fuel vs weight. Can't neglect this factor.


Actually cruise ships use in the neighborhood of 100-200 gallons per mile, of course depending on engine specifications.

Or even more. Some numbers on the "MS Freedom of the Seas here":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_Freedom_of_the_Seas

[Sparky]

I don't want to be judgemental, I just like to think that we at least should try too improve. And we do as it may just have the positive effect of saving money ;)

I've done what I can within reason already. Trust me, after putting $600 in the tank in March, I'm not just blindly pumping the gas going "lalalalala" acting like nothing matters :p:

Saving money is a good thing - as long as done properly. Back in 2008 I laughed at the people who went nuts, dropped their larger cars at a loss, and picked up a brand new smaller car (or a prius, lol, those were selling at a premium ripoff) and then said how much they were saving, in gas... neglecting the fact that between gas AND car payment they now pay more per month :ROTF:

The smarter ones traded in their car and got a cheaper used car at little to no cost above the value of their old one, so the rate of return was much, much sooner and actually happened. That made more sense.

I've toyed with the idea of getting a cheap small car for running around in, but when I do the cost analysis, I can't really justify it. Gotta spend at least $1500 to get anything even remotely decent (probably closer to $2500), then there is gas for it and the truck (can't get rid of the truck for reasons already given), maintenance for both, insurance for both... I just don't know how much of a "savings" it really would be :shrug:

[demonkevy666]

I've done what I can within reason already. Trust me, after putting $600 in the tank in March, I'm not just blindly pumping the gas going "lalalalala" acting like nothing matters :p:

Saving money is a good thing - as long as done properly. Back in 2008 I laughed at the people who went nuts, dropped their larger cars at a loss, and picked up a brand new smaller car (or a prius, lol, those were selling at a premium ripoff) and then said how much they were saving, in gas... neglecting the fact that between gas AND car payment they now pay more per month :ROTF:

The smarter ones traded in their car and got a cheaper used car at little to no cost above the value of their old one, so the rate of return was much, much sooner and actually happened. That made more sense.

I've toyed with the idea of getting a cheap small car for running around in, but when I do the cost analysis, I can't really justify it. Gotta spend at least $1500 to get anything even remotely decent (probably closer to $2500), then there is gas for it and the truck (can't get rid of the truck for reasons already given), maintenance for both, insurance for both... I just don't know how much of a "savings" it really would be :shrug:

sometimes you get lucky my mother got a Saturn wagon for $1000.
so what's wrong with wagons ? (other yahoo claiming they die lol when I read that artile iconly there a bunch of new sports wagon showing up lol)

hybirds need to get a lot light before they're even really competitive with fwd. the prius only gets good mileage blow highway speeds other wise your just getting 45mpg max. and also 0-60 in 10 seconds sucks lol you won't ever be able to pass someone doing 50mph on the highway.

100HP per ton has been done the 1989+ Thunderbird with V8's (lowly 205HP V8 ) 3,700lbs. the my father owns manged to get 33mpg on the highway once. (too bad I have to fix it now)

4WD and AWD can have some drag on them you lose a couple mpgs
how the weight shift for front wheel drive and the fact you can pull more then you can push works out well for them
rear wheel drive well again you get weight shift, but more load on the engine better for bigger engines with lots of torque.

it's all give and take.

[Kallenator]

I've done what I can within reason already. Trust me, after putting $600 in the tank in March, I'm not just blindly pumping the gas going "lalalalala" acting like nothing matters :p:

Saving money is a good thing - as long as done properly. Back in 2008 I laughed at the people who went nuts, dropped their larger cars at a loss, and picked up a brand new smaller car (or a prius, lol, those were selling at a premium ripoff) and then said how much they were saving, in gas... neglecting the fact that between gas AND car payment they now pay more per month :ROTF:

The Prius has always been a bit of a publicity stunt from Toyota imo. It really can't compete with the fuel consumption of something similar with a diesel engine.
And what you are saying is very true and a bit sad that people don't understand and don't think too long about, if you buy a new car it needs to severely reduce your monthly fuel consumption and you need to have the car until it's death for the purchase to meet ends.


The smarter ones traded in their car and got a cheaper used car at little to no cost above the value of their old one, so the rate of return was much, much sooner and actually happened. That made more sense.

This makes sense, and there are some pretty "cool"/efficient alternatives. My favorite is actually an Audi A2 1.2TDI. All aluminium, no rust, woho! and the ability to reach 78mpg. I wouldn't want to crash in it though and it's not exactly pretty either :p

[Nikolasz]

My car takes 4.1 liter per 100km thats 1.5 liter diesel engine. Winter time and summer time allways 4.1 liter, that onboard computer tell me.
I rather have car that run on water then on diesel

[MikeB12]

I screwed up the cruise ship fuel efficiency numbers... I meant 70, not 17. and that's just some internet number. Obviously the bigger the ship, the more fuel it uses.

the tractor trailer average mpg numbers I posted probably come from an aging fleet. the newer diesel tractor trailers obviously get better efficiency, especially on long hauls on the freeway.
Which make me curious what some of the old log trucks we get around where I live. especially when they are on dirt roads and 2 lane rds, instead of freeway... During logging season, the roads clog up with all those trucks where I live on 2 laners. plus they fling bark and road debris everywhere when you're behind them. they can't go that fast on country roads, so sometimes I get stuck behind them doing 35-45 in a 55pmh zone for miles on 2 lane roads. The pine industry is pretty big here, and we have a log processor in town so they are always on the road. and they definitely use old trucks, you rarely see a new log truck.

I definitely don't have an issue with truckers in general. 3 of my friends are truckers. 2 are independents, one is a freight and the other a tanker. bot have fairly well mainitained trucks and sleep on the road. at idle they use about a gallon an hour at night when sleeping in the sleeper cab. The other is a radioactive waste hauler, and he drives a fairly new truck. but the old log trucks around where I live, I wonder how they even stay on the road. single cab 20-30 yr old trucks that smoke and are slow as hell. It's not the trucker's fault, it's because the logging companies can't afford newer fuel efficient and environmentally friendly trucks. I'm not sure if they have to have state annual inspections, but passenger cars in my state (SC) don't have inspection stickers. if it starts and runs, and you pay your state vehicle taxes, then you can drive it on the road. It wasn't that way in TX. IN TX you had to pass emissions and inspections each year to get a sticker.

[ggdh]

You guys from USA probably don't know TopGear car show on BBC in Europe. It was voted best car show in the world but it's not important right now... They are petrol heads, love cars, love fast and expensive cars. And hate hybrids (well, one guy hated until Cameron Diaz was invited...)

They've tested toyota prius on a track against beefy BMW M5 (400hp+). The task was to drive it as fast as possible around the track. And what? BMW was more efficient! :up: Conclusion was to get fast and powerfull car and drive it as "normal". But it was just for laugh...

And hybrids: did you know that manufacturing of a single hybrid car is stressing the environment really A LOT? You would have to use it for tens of years to actually benefit from "hybrid" engine. So think first before jumping into hybrid car.

Kind of similar: few years I stopped using hand dryers in public toilets. Because drying your hand with paper towel (or fabric rolls, don't know if you have it there) is more environmentally friendly. One can say "save the trees". BS. Electricity production demands much more resources than replanting the forest. But people need to get smart to actually understand it.

Peace.

[Kallenator]

They've tested toyota prius on a track against beefy BMW M5 (400hp+).

It was an M3 ;)

And the test was rather creative, I liked it. They also remembered to include the fact that it is also up to the driver how economic you are able to drive your car (Jeremy was a bit more blunt when saying this though which I think was a bit over the top silly).
It's also rather funny to read the reaction from various "tree-huggers".

This being said, it would be interesting too see a proper energy accounting total between the Prius and a more simple car with just a combustion engine. (Same weight, same size and same amount of power)

[Movieman]

http://www.wimp.com/manmoose/
That will take your minds off of this subject..:rofl:

[Q56_Monster]

If I'm supposed to drive less, how am I going to get my LN2? And how can I stop that UPS guy that keeps showing up at my house with newegg boxes?

lmfao on that dang moose

[little_scrapper]

I think EVERYONE should get electric cars. No emmissions. All you have to do is toss your 500Kg battery into the landfill every 18 months. hehe

[MikeB12]

how about the Killacycle http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDHJNG2PngQ