Looking for a review... tubing diameter vs Temp

[Eddy_EK]

Hi,

I am trying to find a review that I have seen, I think in one of German review sites.

The review was testing temperatures of one configuration, but with different tube diameters. Not the temps compared to a flow, but directly measured temps with different tubing. :)

If anyone knows for that review, please paste the link here.
I think it will be interesting for many other guys here...

Eddy

[NaeKuh]

>.<

eddy u know if someone did that.. and said because they use X branded tubing they get better temps, they would get a crucifixion from me, and probably all the other long time water coolers, on a biblical scale that would make the great flood look small.

Unless u mean material of tubing... but... umm... its all poly ethylene if u boil down to it...

The only test with tubing that makes sense is cathars:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=147767

Because it has a direct impact on flow.

[karbonkid]

The only test with tubing that makes sense is cathars:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=147767

Because it has a direct impact on flow.

I think that's what he means.. he wants to know how this specific* impact on flow translates into impact on temperatures...

You got me interested Eddy..

Edit:
*Skipping actual flow measurements, just saying, 6mm ID increases temps by 0.16°C over 1/2"
etc..

Sounds like an interesting test...

[NaeKuh]

I think that's what he means.. he wants to know how this specific impact on flow translates into impact on temperatures...

You got me interested Eddy..

I thought that as well however:


. Not the temps compared to a flow, but directly measured temps with different tubing. :)

If anyone knows for that review, please paste the link here.
I think it will be interesting for many other guys here...

Eddy

so in other words, it seems like eddy is looking for a craptastic tester..
Because we all know holding capacity of water is dependant on flow, and tubing sizes have more impact to flow, then material of tubing itself.

This is why i said if someone posted it on XS, he would get neutered without the use of sedative.

[karbonkid]

See my edit ^ ...

[NaeKuh]

lol im lost in what eddy wants.

and im guessing he cant find it on our forum, because i dont think vapor would of even allowed it to be posted.

it makes no sense whatsoever.. and its almost as bad as saying a pink premix gives u better temps.

[Utnorris]

But wait, I thought if I ran 1/2" ID tubing versus 3/8" tubing my temps would be like 20 degrees better, are you saying this is incorrect Naekuh? Come on, say it isn't so.

[NaeKuh]

But wait, I thought if I ran 1/2" ID tubing versus 3/8" tubing my temps would be like 20 degrees better, are you saying this is incorrect Naekuh? Come on, say it isn't so.

No saying it like that... i would probably smirk.

If you said 1/2 gave greater flow and hence gave me 20C better temps, i would still smirk.

But if u said u used 1/2 tubing and pink premix! i would go OMGWTFBBQ cosmological watercooling FTW!

[Utnorris]

Ok, how about instead of pink premix and 1/2" tubing, what about blue with little sparklies in the fluid and 1/2" tubing with unicorns on the outside, will I get better temps then?

[NaeKuh]

no but being serious..

Eddy what are you asking for in general?
Because having different brands of tubing wont effect temps.
If it does, it will do it on such a small scale, that it wouldnt be merit to use tubing X over Y besides Looks, which we currently are at.

Are you looking for comparisons from PVC vs Copper Tubing Vs Poly Ethylene?
Then i can sort of understand what your aiming at.

[Hondacity]

read title

[zalbard]

no but being serious..

Eddy what are you asking for in general?
Because having different brands of tubing wont effect temps.
If it does, it will do it on such a small scale, that it wouldnt be merit to use tubing X over Y besides Looks, which we currently are at.

Are you looking for comparisons from PVC vs Copper Tubing Vs Poly Ethylene?
Then i can sort of understand what your aiming at.
He is just asking for a review that tells whether tubing diameter affects temps or not.
Found a link: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=147767
Enjoy! :up:

[NaeKuh]

He is just asking for a review that tells whether tubing diameter affects temps or not.

but he's not asking for flow.

Tubing size effects flow...

Its like asking for for power draw without looking at amps.

you see why im lost?

[Vapor]

I think he's just asking for a review that shows the effect tubing has on temperature. If it also shows the flow, it's there but not what he's looking for.

Any temperature effects will be due to a change in flow though, and not all components scale with flow similarly, so it's really hard to do as a review--it should probably be done at the theoretical level like Cathar did.

Cathar's work with impact on tubing size is probably the best the internet has to offer right now, although it's not a review and it's just one set of components.

[relttem]

equation-wise it will have an effect..whether or not it is significant will be the question.

Q = mdot*Cp*dT

mdot = rho*Vel*A

knowing your pump head you can find your velocity based on your Area, A. So, Q will be constant, Cp is pretty constant, and mdot will change. As it goes up or down your dT has to change to keep the balance.

dT = Tout - Tin. Your Tin should be the same, so Tout will have to change.

[LLiH]

read title

So true

[Eddy_EK]

Hi, thanks for the link, this is something, but I think I saw one review in 2010.
Anyway if I cant find it, would be good thing to test to break the US 1/2" ID tubing myth. Anyone volunteers? :)

[NaeKuh]

Hi, thanks for the link, this is something, but I think I saw one review in 2010.
Anyway if I cant find it, would be good thing to test to break the US 1/2" ID tubing myth. Anyone volunteers? :)

cathar did that.. lol..

Its already a debunked myth :P

he showed that from 1/2 -> 7/16 -> 3/8 was a total of .XC's so tubing size didnt really matter until u went lower then 3/8's where u saw bigger reductions.

:up:

[Utnorris]

I say we all go to 2" tubing. :D

[Petra]

Hi, thanks for the link, this is something, but I think I saw one review in 2010.
Anyway if I cant find it, would be good thing to test to break the US 1/2" ID tubing myth. Anyone volunteers? :)

Stew's post being several years old doesn't really do anything to change the validity of the information presented (especially when taken in a general sense).

Tubing yields a pressure drop per unit length, the pressure drop incurred is a function of tubing diameter (cross-sectional area, really...but we've talked about this in the past), and system coolant flowrate with a given pump is dependent upon the total system pressure drop curve...and waterblock performance relies directly upon flowrate--no matter how you slice it, you can't get away from talking about coolant flowrate here, Eddy. The use of larger diameter tubing will incur a lower pressure drop, which will result in a higher coolant flowrate, and better overall performance... However, the most important detail is in how large of a flowrate difference there is between popular tubing diameters, since this will dictate the performance differences with regard to component temperatures. As past experimenting (like Stew's) has shown, the differences between 1/2" ID, 7/16" ID, and 3/8" ID tubing are negligible (...somewhat more appreciable when you get down to 1/4" ID, but it's not the end of the world). Yes, the performance gap between them would increase with a larger heat load... just like with everything else.

Are there exceptions and more detail which could be added to the generality expressed above? Of course. Would it really be useful for most users? No. This is partially why Stew's thread (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=147767) has been the default post to point to for this sort of question since he posted it in 2007.

[Church]

Petra: btw, how are fittings (basic barbs/basic compression fittings, non angle ones) restriction wise relative to short pieces of tubing in LC builds, shouldn't one try to make their internal bore to be big as possible to gain a bit more instead of bigger tubing?

[relttem]

this is straight out of the Crane manual, which is the bible for fluid mechanics..

http://www.pumpfundamentals.com/help16.html

[karbonkid]

Hi, thanks for the link, this is something, but I think I saw one review in 2010.
Anyway if I cant find it, would be good thing to test to break the US 1/2" ID tubing myth. Anyone volunteers? :)

Do you want to go all AquaComputer on us try and convince us to use 4mm/6mm? :D

Seriously, though, I think most people use 1/2" purely for looks.

[penguins]

and everyone who wants to put their hands inside their computer uses 3/8 : )

[NaeKuh]

and everyone who wants to put their hands inside their computer uses 3/8 : )

meh i use 1/2 because all my fittings including my spares are 1/2.

going 3/8ths would probably require me to spend a couple 100 dollars.

Ummm.... no i think i'll stay with 1/2.. :rofl:

[penguins]

use 3/8 over 1/2 ;)

[Johnny87au]

I use 3/8 5/8 or use 3/8 1/2, depending on which fittings i can get my hands on !

[Petra]

this is straight out of the Crane manual, which is the bible for fluid mechanics..

http://www.pumpfundamentals.com/help16.html

That's exactly the sort of detail that I was talking about ;)

Indeed, a very useful resource... just not for most people.

[Utnorris]

I use either 3/8" or 1/2", just depends on the project. I have enough fittings for both, so it really comes down to aesthetics.

[Martinm210]

Surprisingly I have seen quite a few recent builds where people have been running EXTREMELY long remote setups where tubing is approaching 100' in length or more. While we generally ignore friction losses in tubing for normal systems, those extremely long remote setups would benefit in some time considering even larger the 1/2" ID tubing.

Here are some additional tools in that area:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pvc-pipes-friction-loss-d_803.html

Personal preferece 7/16"ID x 5/8"OD is my favorite, but more from a looks and snug fitting (less problem with leaks) perspective.

While there may not be significant differences in temperature with normal systems, there are huge differences in leak prevention. I've almost never had a leak with 7/16" ID tubing, but I've had many problems with 1/2" ID tubing, particularly with compression fittings using 3/4" OD tubing. 1/4" and even 1/2" OD just looks too small for my taste. In the end...you can't change personal preference..

[OC Maximus]

3/8-5/8 all the way :)

[LinusTech]

3/8-5/8 all the way :)

This.

With 3/8-5/8 I don't have to use exotic (and expensive) hardware like angled rotaries & whatnot, I can run tubing into much tighter places/bends, and I can use almost any block I damn well please without worrying about whether it's compatible with my compression fittings :)

[karbonkid]

use 3/8 over 1/2 ;)

Yup. Look, no clamps!


This.

With 3/8-5/8 I don't have to use exotic (and expensive) hardware like angled rotaries & whatnot, I can run tubing into much tighter places/bends, and I can use almost any block I damn well please without worrying about whether it's compatible with my compression fittings :)

^This too

[chorner]

I personally like the look of 1/2" ID and 3/4" OD as the smaller stuff (especially 1/2" OD) makes the tubing runs look kiddy and cheap IMO. The 5/8" OD is a little better in that respect.

I don't see how there would be more of an issue with 1/2" tubing causing leaks outside of user error... you either make a seal or you don't unless you're trying to say that there's more of an issue with the tolerance on 1/2" fittings...

[DarthBeavis]

I use nothing but Thermaltake 1/4" hose cause it is teh bomb
http://www.crazypc.com/images/coolers/watercooling/tubing/itube9full.jpg
if you use black lights it excites the atomZ in teh waters and make it have less restriction and higher flow
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/funkysole/DSC00857.jpg

[m_jones_]

use 3/8 over 1/2 ;)

I struggled to put 3/8 over 1/2 barbs even once dipped in hot water, no way it could ever slip off unlike with 7/16.

[eXa]

Uhm, do you people totally ignore 7/16 tubing now? For me its perfect. Fits thightly over 1/2 fittings, dont really need anything to hold them on (i dont like compression fittings).