Watercooling and Algae

[Eversor]

Hi all,

With every watercooling setup I've assembled, I've always experienced problems with algae growth. What do you do to kill it? I mean really kill, not prevent, I'm looking for definitive solutions because if by mistake I forget to change some liquid I don't want to have blocks and radiators filled with goo.

Thanks in advance.

[Xel_NaGa]

Kill Coil, set and forget (http://www.petrastechshop.com/sikibyia.html) no additional additives needed or replacement

[Soulwind]

If you've already got algae growth, then there's no other options. You have to drain, disassemble, and clean every part of the loop.
Once it's in there, even dead, it will still be clogging things up. What you want to do is prevent it from growing in the first place.

If you've "always experienced problems with algae growth", then you've been doing it wrong. I've been running water for 4 years and have never had any algae growth at all (not the same water for 4 years obviously, but I only drain and refill maybe once every 6-9 months).

You need to use a good biocide agent in any water loop. Either use one of the chemical agents like PT Nuke or else use a good .99% pure silver kill coil. If you use a kill coil, then it's a good idea to "pre-soak" the coil for awhile in the water (in a sealed container) so that it's nice and ionized before you actually use the water. Get a gallon of distilled water, open the container just long enough to drop in a kill coil, close it back up and let it sit for a few days before using it. That way, when you use it in your loop, it's already toxic to algae (obviously you want to have another coil in your loop itself so things stay toxic).

If it's too late though and you already have growth, then you'll have to take everything apart, discard and replace the tubing, give all the metal a good cleaning, and then put everything back together again.

[Eversor]

If you've already got algae growth, then there's no other options. You have to drain, disassemble, and clean every part of the loop.
Once it's in there, even dead, it will still be clogging things up. What you want to do is prevent it from growing in the first place.

If you've "always experienced problems with algae growth", then you've been doing it wrong. I've been running water for 4 years and have never had any algae growth at all (not the same water for 4 years obviously, but I only drain and refill maybe once every 6-9 months).

You need to use a good biocide agent in any water loop. Either use one of the chemical agents like PT Nuke or else use a good .99% pure silver kill coil. If you use a kill coil, then it's a good idea to "pre-soak" the coil for awhile in the water (in a sealed container) so that it's nice and ionized before you actually use the water. Get a gallon of distilled water, open the container just long enough to drop in a kill coil, close it back up and let it sit for a few days before using it. That way, when you use it in your loop, it's already toxic to algae (obviously you want to have another coil in your loop itself so things stay toxic).

If it's too late though and you already have growth, then you'll have to take everything apart, discard and replace the tubing, give all the metal a good cleaning, and then put everything back together again.

The growth I have right now is rather small and only on tubbing and maybe the pump. I haven't looked much at the pump since the reservoir is an XSPC one, which looks sealed to me, so I was thinking of cleaning the little algae present with some kind of acid or abrasive liquid by circulating it for a couple of hours. It is not at a state where goo is present - that were bad experiences with other blocks and stuff.

The rest of the setup is a brand new Swiftech radiator, new tubing, and a impecable Apogee GT.

I was looking at the kill coil but was thinking of alternatives because I thought I wouldn't be able to get one shipped here but it seems I just found one on ebay :)

At first I was considering liquids like Feser One but they say "prevents algae growth", which is not exactly what I have in mind. I want it dead.

I guess the little algae that I won't be able to clean will just die to the kill coil, right?

[Kaldor]

I guess the little algae that I won't be able to clean will just die to the kill coil, right?



If it's too late though and you already have growth, then you'll have to take everything apart, discard and replace the tubing, give all the metal a good cleaning, and then put everything back together again.

Eversor, read closely. Soulwind is right on the money with his answer.

Take it all apart. Clean everything. Throw away the tubing. Start from scratch.

[CrazyNutz]

+1. You have to disassemble and clean once you get growth, no way around it.

Also If you had algea once and you did not thoroughly clean It would just keep comming back. You see, once algea starts it embeds it's self in tiny holes, and crevices, just waiting for the next time conditions are good for regrowth, and to make matters worse your hiding algae can become immune to some types of algaecide overtime.

I've never had it in my loop, however I have a pool, and I have to battle these little buggers from time to time. If I get it in my pool I have to put on the goggles and inspect every inch for hiding algae.

Oh, and one more thing keep your hands clean when handling the parts, any organic material from your hands will eventualy decompose into food for algae.

[NaeKuh]

no if you had growth the reason why u need to redue it, is because if u add chemcials to kill it, it will stink up your case when it dies.

Silver does not work alone if u have UV lights on all the time, or if ur using tap water, as the mineral concentration might accelerate microbes.

Distilled is natrually aggressive, so when in contact with silver, it picks up more ions then tap water.
This is why distilled works great with silver.

But tap water does have flourite, which is also a pretty good microb killer, for a while.

[vulcZ]

My first loop ran for like 4 months and nothing ever grew in it. Drained it this past weekend and the water was pretty damn clean. I didn't use any gay coloring or other additives aside from a few drops of this fish tank algae stuff I bought at Petco for $8. I also used distilled water.

[Eversor]

Eversor, read closely. Soulwind is right on the money with his answer.

Take it all apart. Clean everything. Throw away the tubing. Start from scratch.

I did, was hoping that silver would save my day.

The tubing I'm throwing away either way but the pump I am reluctant to, would like to have it clean :(

Either way, when one adds anti corrosive, does one not stop the effect silver will have? I mean, it just stops the corrosion and not the releasing of silver ions?

Thoughts about dark opaque tubing and reservoirs? No light no algae? Seems so from self contained kits.

[Eversor]

My first loop ran for like 4 months and nothing ever grew in it. Drained it this past weekend and the water was pretty damn clean. I didn't use any gay coloring or other additives aside from a few drops of this fish tank algae stuff I bought at Petco for $8. I also used distilled water.

Hmm... Thanks for that, will also look into that. I've had my loops cleaned too many times, need something definitive now.

[Eversor]

no if you had growth the reason why u need to redue it, is because if u add chemcials to kill it, it will stink up your case when it dies.

Silver does not work alone if u have UV lights on all the time, or if ur using tap water, as the mineral concentration might accelerate microbes.

Distilled is natrually aggressive, so when in contact with silver, it picks up more ions then tap water.
This is why distilled works great with silver.

But tap water does have flourite, which is also a pretty good microb killer, for a while.

I'll use distilled, that's for sure.

UV I won't be using either. Aside from stinking, any problem from killing algae? And stinking how, if the system is closed? You mean when it's opened?

[CrazyNutz]

Again. If you have algae now, and you don't clean and rebuild your loop, you will probably be sorry. Just saying.

[Eversor]

Again. If you have algae now, and you don't clean and rebuild your loop, you will probably be sorry. Just saying.

Right, I will clean it as thoroughly as I can, the question is how? Any tips? Chemicals, scrubing?

[MagisD]

To quote one if my friends, goop loop !!!

Sent from my X10a using Tapatalk

[musicfan]

Right, I will clean it as thoroughly as I can, the question is how? Any tips? Chemicals, scrubing?

You need to eliminate particulate matter. The most gentle way (such as around pumps or blocks) is a toothbrush and dish soap. For material not accessible to physical removal please review this thread for tips:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=265263

Vinegar is less popular now to clean. I may be wrong but there is concern that the acetic acid (vinegar) will continue to erode copper if not neutralized or diluted adequately after irrigation? I used 50% vinegar to initially clean new rads (water alone failed). I shook the rad like crazy but did not run vinegar inside any loop. Then I followed the vinegar with a thorough distilled water flush of the rad before using it hoping dilution will neutralize acetic acid/vinegar and remove debris. Not sure how that compares to the sodium citrate in the commercial radiator flush to kill and remove algae from the rad. Perhaps others will comment on vinegar and rads.

Current loop using distilled & silver only x 8 months with no water change so there is hope. Good luck. :)

[NaeKuh]

I'll use distilled, that's for sure.

UV I won't be using either. Aside from stinking, any problem from killing algae? And stinking how, if the system is closed? You mean when it's opened?

stinking.. as in fishy smell stinking..

its bad... depending on how much growth u had.

and if u see it on your tubing.. chances are u got hair building up inside your blocks.


Right, I will clean it as thoroughly as I can, the question is how? Any tips? Chemicals, scrubing?

rince everything out.

algae can not grow in blocks, or inside a rad, or inside anything which doesnt have a light hole for photosynthesis.
If its inside your block, this is the loose hair im talking about...

Go out to a store... buy a soft tooth brush. and start scrubbing.
no alcohol, just warm water + soap..

[Xrim]

If you cant get a killcoil shipped to you an alternative is to go down to the local goldsmith/jewellery-store and buy a piece of pure silver. Goldsmiths have large sheets of 99.99% pure silver that they can cut a piece off for a few bucks.

[Eversor]

If you cant get a killcoil shipped to you an alternative is to go down to the local goldsmith/jewellery-store and buy a piece of pure silver. Goldsmiths have large sheets of 99.99% pure silver that they can cut a piece off for a few bucks.

Thank you! I've put a word on my local water cooling shop to see if they can get it, if not I will try that as you say, plenty of jewellry stores around :)

[Eversor]

stinking.. as in fishy smell stinking..

its bad... depending on how much growth u had.

and if u see it on your tubing.. chances are u got hair building up inside your blocks.



rince everything out.

algae can not grow in blocks, or inside a rad, or inside anything which doesnt have a light hole for photosynthesis.
If its inside your block, this is the loose hair im talking about...

Go out to a store... buy a soft tooth brush. and start scrubbing.
no alcohol, just warm water + soap..

Ok. I was just trying to understand the degree of cleaning that would be required on blocks, rads and pumps(especially the pump as it's sealed), since I've had pretty bad corrosion and fungus on a block I had once. Guess probably the corrosion wasn't the algae's fault then.

I don't have much growth in the system, it's mostly the pump, so I guess I'll try some sugestions of cleaning what I can't access with some of those acids.

[Eversor]

You need to eliminate particulate matter. The most gentle way (such as around pumps or blocks) is a toothbrush and dish soap. For material not accessible to physical removal please review this thread for tips:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=265263

Vinegar is less popular now to clean. I may be wrong but there is concern that the acetic acid (vinegar) will continue to erode copper if not neutralized or diluted adequately after irrigation? I used 50% vinegar to initially clean new rads (water alone failed). I shook the rad like crazy but did not run vinegar inside any loop. Then I followed the vinegar with a thorough distilled water flush of the rad before using it hoping dilution will neutralize acetic acid/vinegar and remove debris. Not sure how that compares to the sodium citrate in the commercial radiator flush to kill and remove algae from the rad. Perhaps others will comment on vinegar and rads.

Current loop using distilled & silver only x 8 months with no water change so there is hope. Good luck. :)

I see, thanks a lot!

That commercial radiator flush, easy to find? Can you give me some names as examples?

[NaeKuh]

prestone super rad flush.

http://www.noelsautoparts.com.au/pics/Autolite/AS107.jpg

[zads]

Flush your system out and rid the algae with the following:
1.Drain your system
2.Fill your reservoir with pure baking soda
3.Add red dye to the baking soda
4.Add a ton of vinegar to the reservoir all at once


...lol
(don't actually try that, for some reason this thread made me think of this)

Anyway, I've never had any traces of algae in my loop, (DI+Killcoil).
But I'm guessing if you used opaque tubing and a mostly blacked out/painted reservoir, you would never have problems with algae either, right?

[Eversor]

prestone super rad flush.

http://www.noelsautoparts.com.au/pics/Autolite/AS107.jpg

Thanks :)

[Eversor]

Flush your system out and rid the algae with the following:
1.Drain your system
2.Fill your reservoir with pure baking soda
3.Add red dye to the baking soda
4.Add a ton of vinegar to the reservoir all at once


...lol
(don't actually try that, for some reason this thread made me think of this)

Anyway, I've never had any traces of algae in my loop, (DI+Killcoil).
But I'm guessing if you used opaque tubing and a mostly blacked out/painted reservoir, you would never have problems with algae either, right?

Hmm... I'm considering blacking out the reservoir, although it is kind of a bumer to check water levels afterwards, guess it's still better than having the system filled with goo :)

Let's see if I can get that kill coil then, everyone talks so much about it.

Any thoughts on Feser One cooling? The guys at the local store say it's the only stuff they have because its good with everything: no coloring goo on the loop and tubing, no algae growth and not conductive(though they don't exactly believe this part that much).

Best regards

[Sparky]

My main rig I have a bad algae problem that I need to clean up, but haven't yet. Temps are slowly getting worse, I can only imagine what the blocks look like :ROTF:

A server rig that I have also is running pure distilled + a killcoil, the res is clear, tubes clear, and still are after at least 6 months now of running.

[MagisD]

Hmm... I'm considering blacking out the reservoir, although it is kind of a bumer to check water levels afterwards, guess it's still better than having the system filled with goo :)

Let's see if I can get that kill coil then, everyone talks so much about it.

Any thoughts on Feser One cooling? The guys at the local store say it's the only stuff they have because its good with everything: no coloring goo on the loop and tubing, no algae growth and not conductive(though they don't exactly believe this part that much).

Best regards

It's a lie, every claim of non separating or non staining is a lie.

biocide part may be true

Even mayhem / ianh stated it will. It's probbly the safest to use.

At some point every one is going to do one or both. Theres a reason every says the same thing distilled and silver.

Sent from my X10a using Tapatalk

[Eversor]

My main rig I have a bad algae problem that I need to clean up, but haven't yet. Temps are slowly getting worse, I can only imagine what the blocks look like :ROTF:

A server rig that I have also is running pure distilled + a killcoil, the res is clear, tubes clear, and still are after at least 6 months now of running.

I see, thanks. But then aren't you worried about galvanic corrosion? Or have you used some anti-corrosive to go with the killcoil?

[Eversor]

It's a lie, every claim of non separating or non staining is a lie.

biocide part may be true

Even mayhem / ianh stated it will. It's probbly the safest to use.

At some point every one is going to do one or both. Theres a reason every says the same thing distilled and silver.

Sent from my X10a using Tapatalk

One thing is sure, they have an open PC which has had watercooling for ages and it really doesn't looked stained. I haven't had that luck with most additives though.

[Erklat]

I see, thanks. But then aren't you worried about galvanic corrosion? Or have you used some anti-corrosive to go with the killcoil?

No corrosion if the only material your loop is comprised of is copper and elements inert with it. Aluminum or something out of Thermaltake's assortment? Now we are talking :D

I noticed a stain on my res, so I might have some puke somewhere in the loop. I'm going to disassemble it as soon as my mobo block arrives anyway, so I find this information here most useful :up:

[Sideroxylon]

Lets see if I can sum things up for you since it's obvious you're a bit confused.

The non-conductive fluid claim is BS. Even if it is non-conductive out of the bottle, eventually it will become contaminated and become conductive. Best bet is to just be careful when filling and make sure all connections are secure.

If the components in your loop are all copper, brass, nickel, or silver there's no need to worry about galvanic corrosion. Most wc'ing components are made of these today so it's easy to avoid the corrosion issue.

Use distilled water and a silver killcoil and you won't have to worry about algae or dye separating and clogging up your blocks. If you really want some color use colored tubing.

[Eversor]

Lets see if I can sum things up for you since it's obvious you're a bit confused.

The non-conductive fluid claim is BS. Even if it is non-conductive out of the bottle, eventually it will become contaminated and become conductive. Best bet is to just be careful when filling and make sure all connections are secure.

If the components in your loop are all copper, brass, nickel, or silver there's no need to worry about galvanic corrosion. Most wc'ing components are made of these today so it's easy to avoid the corrosion issue.

Use distilled water and a silver killcoil and you won't have to worry about algae or dye separating and clogging up your blocks. If you really want some color use colored tubing.

Is that related to the anodic index then? So aluminum would cause me problems but brass + copper would be ok? From what I can see from that table mixing nickel would be a no go.

So I currently have an apogee GT, severel nickel plated connectors(or so it seems) and a brass(possibly also copper based) radiator from Swiftech. Guess I dump the connectors and I'm ok?

[NaeKuh]

Is that related to the anodic index then? So aluminum would cause me problems but brass + copper would be ok? From what I can see from that table mixing nickel would be a no go.

So I currently have an apogee GT, severel nickel plated connectors(or so it seems) and a brass(possibly also copper based) radiator from Swiftech. Guess I dump the connectors and I'm ok?

Brass + Copper + Silver + Gold + Titanium + Zinc + (good quality Steel) + Chrome
= will all play nice together..

The corrosion between those metals is so obnoxiously slow, by the time u notice something corrode, you'll hair will have also corroded away.

Alu <--- this is the main thing we warn people about.... especially if theres copper in the connecting loop.

Bad steel / iron... this straight up rusts... and yes ive had it happen inside a loop.

[Sparky]

I see, thanks. But then aren't you worried about galvanic corrosion? Or have you used some anti-corrosive to go with the killcoil?

Copper and copper alloys are safe together. Nickel, brass, copper, silver, gold, stainless steel - all safe. So nope, no corrosion worries, so no corrosion inhibitor needed :)

[Conumdrum]

Hmm... I'm considering blacking out the reservoir, although it is kind of a bumer to check water levels afterwards, guess it's still better than having the system filled with goo :)

Let's see if I can get that kill coil then, everyone talks so much about it.

Any thoughts on Feser One cooling? The guys at the local store say it's the only stuff they have because its good with everything: no coloring goo on the loop and tubing, no algae growth and not conductive(though they don't exactly believe this part that much).

Best regards

Looks like your local store guys don't know much about real watercooling, or they are trying to get you to buy stuff, have it screw up and buy more stuff. Better yet, ask them what watercooling forums they frequent and post regularily to. Betcha it's ZERO.

Please read these links.
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6665651#post6665651
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6665651#post6665651
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=170188

[Eversor]

Looks like your local store guys don't know much about real watercooling, or they are trying to get you to buy stuff, have it screw up and buy more stuff. Better yet, ask them what watercooling forums they frequent and post regularily to. Betcha it's ZERO.

Please read these links.
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6665651#post6665651
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6665651#post6665651
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=170188

All righty :)

Thank you for the input. I'll try to grab the kill coil then and start experimenting with it. This week I think I'll get to cleaning the pump and res, which are the ones in need of care.

[Eversor]

Brass + Copper + Silver + Gold + Titanium + Zinc + (good quality Steel) + Chrome
= will all play nice together..

The corrosion between those metals is so obnoxiously slow, by the time u notice something corrode, you'll hair will have also corroded away.

Alu <--- this is the main thing we warn people about.... especially if theres copper in the connecting loop.

Bad steel / iron... this straight up rusts... and yes ive had it happen inside a loop.

Ok, I see. Well, guess I'll grab some plastic connectors like the one the Apogee comes with just to be safe. This way it's just plastic, brass and copper, no way to go wrong with it.

Thanks!

[Movieman]

Justr get a couple of those algae eating fish and toss in the res..
Now get very small ones or when they get sucked into the tubing they will get stuck in the WB or HMM, wonder if they would make it thru the pump?:rofl:

[m0r7if3r]

Ok, I see. Well, guess I'll grab some plastic connectors like the one the Apogee comes with just to be safe. This way it's just plastic, brass and copper, no way to go wrong with it.

Thanks!

I think you mean plastic barbs? If so, don't do that, the flow in the plastic barbs isn't too great, the high quality metal ones are far superior, not to mention ease of use.

[penguins]

no one told you to change any components. just use pt nuke or a silver kill coil + distilled water. that's the only change you need to do other than cleaning.

[Eversor]

I think you mean plastic barbs? If so, don't do that, the flow in the plastic barbs isn't too great, the high quality metal ones are far superior, not to mention ease of use.

Not the ones that fit the tubing on the inside, the ones that are exactly like most swiftech barbs. Those seem fine don't they?

[Eversor]

no one told you to change any components. just use pt nuke or a silver kill coil + distilled water. that's the only change you need to do other than cleaning.

Yes, I know. I'm just saying that the anodic index doesn't really encourage the use of nickel plated barbs in circuits where copper or brass is present, so I'm just playing safe on that one. Aluminium seems a lot worse, though, so I guess that nickel should be that of an hazardous but using plastic barbs is not exactly an expensive change and I also have at least one barb corroded, so I have to exchange it either way.

http://www.vadim.co.uk/images/APOGEE.gif

These are the plastic barbs I'm talking about.

Best regards

[MagisD]

Nickel plated is perfectly safe, as long as the plating is good, even then it's nickel plated brass and what your worrying about is posting flaking off.

Sent from my X10a using Tapatalk

[Sideroxylon]

I also have at least one barb corroded, so I have to exchange it either way.

You have a corroded nickel plated barb? I highly doubt that. It might be coated with crap but nothing you can't clean off.

You really need to listen to what we've been telling you. Nickel is fine in a loop with copper and brass. By the time you'd see any corrosion issues with nickel your great grandchildren will be dead.

[NaeKuh]

plastic sucks.. trust me.. when we used that, we had nightmares with the threading getting worn out and then leaking.
This also brings back a period in time where we used plumbers tape to stop leaking on plastic.

Never want to go back there again.

Use standard blocks.. and ur good with almost every fitting out there.

As i said, the only thing u need to avoid is ALU in general.
And rarely anything comes in alu now, unless its a AIO... All in One.. kit like the H6O <--- alu rad.. :shakes: or a innovotek mockery.

If any of the other vendors used Wetted ALU, and didnt state that, they would get a crucifixion on XS, on biblical proportions.
You can ask Gabe himself.. he suffered though a couple... :rofl:

And koolance wont go back there again... i think there very happy with there position current, seeing how they are probably the top to second top vendor in size.
Only company i think may be simular or larger being Swiftech.

[penguins]

Nickel plated is perfectly safe, as long as the plating is good, even then it's nickel plated brass and what your worrying about is posting flaking off.

Sent from my X10a using Tapatalk


You have a corroded nickel plated barb? I highly doubt that. It might be coated with crap but nothing you can't clean off.

You really need to listen to what we've been telling you. Nickel is fine in a loop with copper and brass. By the time you'd see any corrosion issues with nickel your great grandchildren will be dead.


plastic sucks.. trust me.. when we used that, we had nightmares with the threading getting worn out and then leaking.
This also brings back a period in time where we used plumbers tape to stop leaking on plastic.

Never want to go back there again.

Use standard blocks.. and ur good with almost every fitting out there.

As i said, the only thing u need to avoid is ALU in general.
And rarely anything comes in alu now, unless its a AIO... All in One.. kit like the H6O <--- alu rad.. :shakes: or a innovotek mockery.

If any of the other vendors used Wetted ALU, and didnt state that, they would get a crucifixion on XS, on biblical proportions.
You can ask Gabe himself.. he suffered though a couple... :rofl:

And koolance wont go back there again... i think there very happy with there position current, seeing how they are probably the top to second top vendor in size.
Only company i think may be simular or larger being Swiftech.

+1 +1 +1

you might have noticed nickel plating come off, that isn't corrosion.

Silver is further away from brass/copper than nickel is!! the corrosion between silver and copper are slower than hell man.. double that for nickel. aluminum is 9 items away from copper, silver is 2.. All the serious posts here have told you nothing other than Clean! and Add PT nuke or silver or both!!