Some general questions from a newbie...

[Palamedes]

Howdy all. I'm new to the whole water cooling thing and am going to be building a new system in the next coming weeks.. I posted this same set of questions over at the koolance forum, but it hasn't gotten much in the way of views and zero responses so I thought I would repost here..

One of my goals is to get a quiet PC that performs well under load, doesn't get higher than 30dB ever and remains as close to ambient temperature as possible. I have been doing my homework/research and I have a couple questions;

1. Is it more important to cool the CPU or GPU?

From my research it seems that best case should be to cool both, but that generally speaking the GPU (when both are at load) generates more heat than the CPU and as such shouldn't be ignored.. This about right? If you can't do it for one reason or another is it acceptable to only cool the CPU? Or only cool the GPU? My goal is to cool both, but I'm curious..

2. Is getting a waterblock for the northbridge of the motherboard that important?

The new motherboard I am looking at (MSI P67A-GD65) has a north bridge fan/heat sink and so all of the helper configuration tools seem to want me to get a north bridge water block too, but really do I need to? Is that one I can ignore or is it vital? I just don't know how much heat it actually generates..

3. Is there a point to Watercooling Memory?

Memory doesn't seem to get hot at all, and the meager little heat plates that are attached to most sticks of memory do a fine job.. do they need more cooling?

4. How big of a reservoir do you need?

It seems the site sells the gamut from tiny to fricken huge.. is there a formula or a general idea of how big of a res to get? Is bigger better?

5. When building a loop should you go hottest to coolest or coolest to hottest when routing through your various blocks?

So if I have a CPU, GPU and North Bridge in my loop is it best to go hottest to coolest (GPU->CPU->NB) or coolest to hottest (NB->CPU->GPU) or always CPU first..etc.. whats the "correct" order?

6. Is there really any point in trying to achieve sub-ambient temps?

I have heard / read of folks involving various forms of chillers or coolers into their loops such as to get much lower temps.. but the law of thermodynamics seems to imply that you pay for those temps by venting heat into the room which I'd dearly like to avoid (this room is warm enough).. So really, is there any point? I mean sure I could rig a peltier or some other chilling device into the loop but the 10 to 20 degree difference wouldn't really do much more in the way of making the computer faster.. so why do it? Or is there something I'm not considering?

My current machine has a Intel Core 2 Extreme Qx6700 (http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=28028) that I got back in 2006 right after the chip came out and is currently peltier cooled.. It works fairly well for a 5 year old 65nm process but it has a habit of heating up the room pretty badly under load.. (I do 3D rendering as well as grid computing when idle so the machine is always cranking out the heat.)

CPUID's hardware monitor tells me that the CPU temp sits right at 60°C under load while the individual core temps report as hovering ±65°C.. My room hovers around 27°C..

7. So with that; if I used water cooling on my current machine, how close to ambient would I get?

If I were to yank the peltier out of this machine and rig it up with a waterblock would I see much better performance? How much better? On the new i7 chip I'm getting overclocked to say 4.5ghz what can I expect to see temperature wise?

8. How loud are the water pumps?

I'm going for super quiet here.. My current machine is no where near as bad as some (my friends computer has a fan that sounds like a hairdryer and my work PC under load sounds like an airplane taking off) but still its louder than I want. At full load it gets to about 38dB.. I'd like to get in under 30dB if possible. Is water cooling that much quieter?


Okay thats more than a couple questions.. and I could likely ask a lot more but lets start there..

Thanks a bunch, I do appreciate it..

[Mazlov]

1. Gpu if noise is your main concern. I'd go for both
2. No
3. No
4. From microres to dual bay res... As long as it keeps your pump filled with water you're good.
5. Doesn't matter
6. Sub ambient will lead to condensation on your tubing and blocks. This condensation will shortcircuit your hardware when it comes to contact with it. Do not want.
7. Depends on too many factors in your setup to tell right now
8. Martin has a nice test going on here somewhere. Search for it.

[vhaarr]

1. Is it more important to cool the CPU or GPU?
Air cooling works fine. Cool what you want on water :)


2. Is getting a waterblock for the northbridge of the motherboard that important?
No.


3. Is there a point to Watercooling Memory?
Not unless you overvolt/clock it.


4. How big of a reservoir do you need?
You don't even need a reservoir, your loop just needs water and a reservoir lets you fill up more easily, and can also help with bleeding the loop. Size does not matter.


5. When building a loop should you go hottest to coolest or coolest to hottest when routing through your various blocks?
The loop order makes no difference (perhaps 1 degree). Put the stuff in a way that makes sense, and run tubing in the shortest/best looking route.


6. Is there really any point in trying to achieve sub-ambient temps?
No, it's also dangerous due to condensation, and impossible with traditional WC loops contained inside your case.

[m0r7if3r]

1. Is it more important to cool the CPU or GPU?
2. Is getting a waterblock for the northbridge of the motherboard that important?
3. Is there a point to Watercooling Memory?
4. How big of a reservoir do you need?
5. When building a loop should you go hottest to coolest or coolest to hottest when routing through your various blocks?
6. Is there really any point in trying to achieve sub-ambient temps?
7. So with that; if I used water cooling on my current machine, how close to ambient would I get?
8. How loud are the water pumps?

Chopped it up to make it easier to answer, hope you don't mind :)


Sorta depends on your goals and your setups. In terms of noise (your primary concern), I'd say GPU. Air cooling for CPUs these days is really darn good
I'd say it's completely unnecessary. Others here will disagree, but IMO it's just aesthetics
None at all but aesthetics since about DDR1 lol
Completely arbitrary, res size just affects time to equilibrium at load, and even that is a minor effect, pick one that matches your price or suits your eye
Water temps are going to equalize within a couple of C, so it doesn't make a ton of difference, route it how it's easiest. Only rule is that the pump must be right after the res to keep it fully primed all the time
Not really if you're trying to keep heat out of the room...imo subambient is for benching only, using it for daily is just asking for trouble (that said there are those who do it successfully)
Really depends on the setup and everything and just tons of variables like how good heat transfer out of your IHS...do some reading about dT, you'll get the idea
Depends on the pump, but the laing pumps are darn quiet (imo). Bout the same level of noise as a harddrive...maybe a bit more.


Hope this helps :)

[vhaarr]

Haha, I guess we all were editing our replies at the same time ;)

[penguins]

Three Good responses.

Consider all their answers before a follow up, and also @OP good questions!
Looks like someone is doing their homework before asking q's.

I'll add on the noise level. Unless you use fast or crappy fans the pump is going to be the loudest thing in your case, look into a Koolance Spd-10 pump / fan controller if you want to turn a pump down a liitle bit lower, martin did a review of it, but be very careful about the top setting as it is 13+ volts and is too high for startup. I'll try and find you a link if teh puppy stays asleep : ).

[Palamedes]

Wow great responses guys.. Thanks a bunch.. Not having to buy a block for the north bridge nor for memory will save me money for sure.. I'll try to find that pump review as I am keenly interested..

Thanks!

Edit -- I think this is the link to the post: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=267920

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

So you are looking at a 2x00k processor, correct? It has reached the point in processor tech that you can really get very good OC's from a good air sink. But, the old-timey watercooler in me says that you should really go for CPU first above all priorities.

That said, With a 140.3 radiator of your brand of choice you can cool pretty much any 2x00k and single GPU system well and quietly.

[vhaarr]

Edit -- I think this is the link to the post: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=267920

No, he was referring to this post (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=268633), but the one you found is definitely worth reading/watching as well :)
EDIT: Probably even more so than the CTR-SPD10 one :P

[Palamedes]

So you are looking at a 2x00k processor, correct? It has reached the point in processor tech that you can really get very good OC's from a good air sink. But, the old-timey watercooler in me says that you should really go for CPU first above all priorities.

That said, With a 140.3 radiator of your brand of choice you can cool pretty much any 2x00k and single GPU system well and quietly.

Yeah I'm looking to get the i7-2600.. I'm pretty sure I could cool that 32nm process with a Noctura NH-D14 nicely but I want to try this watercooling stuff.. There is a little "nerd cred" I'm going for..hehe


No, he was referring to this post (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=268633), but the one you found is definitely worth reading/watching as well :)
EDIT: Probably even more so than the CTR-SPD10 one :P

Ah thanks!

[MagisD]

Get a swiftech mcp-35x pwm pump control worried about flow get to there insanely quiet at lower speeds decoupled ( swiftech is releasing a decoupler in a couple of weeks.) I run 2-3 degrees above ambient with pumps turned down to silent 30%.

Fans are at auto 800 rpm. for gaming I don't even adjust settings I barely brake 35 - 40. Everythings set to increase above 40 on a nice curve.

Sent from my X10a using Tapatalk

[Palamedes]

Okay dumb question time;

What does decoupled mean at this point? Whats decoupled from what?

[MagisD]

No actual hard mount as in no screws or hard material to hard material. Mounted on foam or rubber. Its so vibrations don't get transmitted to peices that make sound aka panels

Go google skinnee lab and martins liquid lab there bibles for good quiet liquid cooling.

It will also fill you in on a lot of the basics.

Sent from my X10a using Tapatalk

[Vinas]

Originally Posted by Palamedes View Post
1. Is it more important to cool the CPU or GPU?
2. Is getting a waterblock for the northbridge of the motherboard that important?
3. Is there a point to Watercooling Memory?
4. How big of a reservoir do you need?
5. When building a loop should you go hottest to coolest or coolest to hottest when routing through your various blocks?
6. Is there really any point in trying to achieve sub-ambient temps?
7. So with that; if I used water cooling on my current machine, how close to ambient would I get?
8. How loud are the water pumps?

CPU, unless you overvolt your GPU you don't really need it. Also it is recommended to start with a CPU only loop until you get the hang of things. Usually people change their loop a lot in the first year anyhow.
There is no real benefit from using a NB cooler or a motherboard cooler. They are mostly for bling factor!
IMHO watercooling memory is not really worth it. People do it partially for bling and if there is a lack of airflow over the RAM.
No res needed. I prefer to use a T line and fillport above the pump suction tube.
The water in your loop will equalize temps. There is no notable difference.
Sub ambient requires socket prep and insulation. Don't try it yet.
Generally the more surface area you have on your rad, the closer to ambient you'll be able to achieve. We call the difference between water temp and ambient "Delta".
I can never hear a water pump over my fans. Chances are you won't either (unles there is air in the loop).

[avddreamr]

Palamades, it would help if we knew what components you intend to purchase, and what case you have.
Then we can advice you properly.

Truthfully, because air cooling has improved so much lately, and power consumption has shot down thanks to sandybridge... I think that there are plenty of capable tower heatsinks that are more than up to cooling the cpu with a tolerable ammount of noise.

Further, if you don't intend to Xfire or sli, and you don't need most of your expansion slots.. a thermalright shaman can do a great job of cooling most gpus.

But if you want to watercool, even if it's not practical or necessary... this is the right place to be.

I mostly watercool b/c i can't stand the noise of nearly every video card fan I have ever heard.

[Palamedes]

Truthfully, because air cooling has improved so much lately, and power consumption has shot down thanks to sandybridge... I think that there are plenty of capable tower heatsinks that are more than up to cooling the cpu with a tolerable ammount of noise.

Oh absolutely.. As the process sizes drop water cooling is completely unnecessary.. I'm pretty sure any reasonable fan/heatsink combo would do a brilliant job of cooling the chip I'm aiming for. But where is the fun in that?



Further, if you don't intend to Xfire or sli, and you don't need most of your expansion slots.. a thermalright shaman can do a great job of cooling most gpus.

I will likely be running two GTX570's.. (I just can't quite find the cost benefit to price point in a 580 or 590.. they are just still too high right now..) I need to find a couple reference cards though..



But if you want to watercool, even if it's not practical or necessary... this is the right place to be.

I mostly watercool b/c i can't stand the noise of nearly every video card fan I have ever heard.

Exactly. I want to try water cooling in order to get as quiet a computer as possible. Right now my room with all my computer stuff is loud compared to the rest of the house. 45dB and its mostly the fans on my main workhorse.

( It also has some awful coil whine which annoys the hell out of me, but one problem at a time.. )

Plus there is the fun factor..

[avddreamr]

Oh absolutely.. As the process sizes drop water cooling is completely unnecessary.. I'm pretty sure any reasonable fan/heatsink combo would do a brilliant job of cooling the chip I'm aiming for. But where is the fun in that?
Hearing or not hearing a thermalright silver arrow... mas made me question watercooling.




I will likely be running two GTX570's.. (I just can't quite find the cost benefit to price point in a 580 or 590.. they are just still too high right now..) I need to find a couple reference cards though..
If you are going to purchase 570's new, and at the same time there is a distinct cost benefit to purchasing a gtx590.
If gtx 570's go for 325, so you need a pair, and respective gpu blocks
650 + 2 GPU Blocks > or = 700 + 150
You may want to wait for watercooling and overclocking results on the gtx590, if it brings it up to gtx 580 level of performance then in your case it will be a bargain.
But if your after silence and can live without cuda remember that 6990 consumes quite a bit less power than a pair of gtx 570s/580s. Less heat... less noise.





Exactly. I want to try water cooling in order to get as quiet a computer as possible. Right now my room with all my computer stuff is loud compared to the rest of the house. 45dB and its mostly the fans on my main workhorse.

( It also has some awful coil whine which annoys the hell out of me, but one problem at a time.. )

Plus there is the fun factor..

Then you need to design your loop around low restriction, and possibly more radiator than you had initially intended.

Lower restriction blocks, combined with more radiator area, = less noise
Why do lower restriction blocks= less noise , b/c you can then get away with a less powerful pump or less speed on your powerful pump.
And after you have your fans/radiator area sorted, your pump even decoupled will remain that last bit of noise.

The MCP35x is a great compromise, but there are other similarly priced options. And then there's always a pair of smaller and comparitively tiny pumps (db-1's), or the aquastream (king of NO noise).

Are you going to mount your radiators externally?
For an sli setup + sandy bridge with low noise, you can get by with a quad radiator.


And if you can, if you like your wallet, never look at bitspower, bling is like crack for watercoolers. I think my fittings, are worth almost as much as the rest of my loop, they do nothing but look nice and simplify installation in a case without a window.