new dets [Archive] - XtremeSystems Forums

Creative

08-29-2002, 10:00 PM

14988.....12 points off 15k for a ti4200 and 2.26 @ 3020 :D
Up from 13943.....but cant upload cos it times out....:(

Dont have the ti4600 anymore so cant try that......isnt it wierd that nvidia is always able to release 'magic' drivers around the same time a new radeon comes out.....:rolleyes:

Im sick of nvidia

Also a bug I have found is that in car high detail after about 10 runs of 3dmark thru the system, this test will come to a complete stop as if the card froze, and then it says 5fpsand then continues and drops my score by about 500 points.....I have to use ghost to reimage the drive and start again.....although not a bad thing, its certainly annoying.

Wish i still had my BD7 instead of this undervolting IT7 cos im 60mhz short now on the IT7 than what the cpu did on the BD7 :p
hehehehe

Leo

08-29-2002, 11:01 PM

Originally posted by sysfailur

Seriously... hehe lovely time to take a freaking maintenence break!

Well it's back up as of now if you care :).

Spystar

08-30-2002, 12:38 AM

I had a quick bench with these last night.

16120 with P4 2.8 @ 3.38GHz / Leadtek Ti 4600 @ 330/745.

Can't upload like everyone else. Like most people, these gave me around 1100 marks on a clock-for-clock basis.

Seems to be up for me now

http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=4329864

08-30-2002, 03:43 AM

Wow...very nice...will hafta check em out :)

SKATAN

08-30-2002, 09:22 AM

they gave me 600 points over 29.17 (ti4200 non overclocked)

MrIcee

08-30-2002, 11:14 AM

Looks like these drivers favor the Intel systems once again, AMD averaging 500-600 points, Intels doubling that.

Randi:D

SKATAN

08-30-2002, 01:44 PM

hmm i dont think so

i got 600 mrks increase with no Oc on the grafics card

the guys who claim 1000 points are doing the comparison with the grafics card oced , since the new drivers boost the benchs which are most dependant on grafics card power

so the higher the vid card oc the higher the boost by these drivers :)

majormav

08-30-2002, 02:14 PM

we will find out tomorrow on that the amd got just over 600 with ease last night it will be the intel rigs turn tomorrow to have a go with em

MrIcee

08-30-2002, 02:24 PM

Skatan:)

I got exactly a 600 point increase running my normal clocks of 384/783 running at 1683Mhz. Maybe I need to reinstall and give em another try:)

Randi:D

majormav

08-30-2002, 02:50 PM

612 here with 207x10 instead of 207x10.5 so 100+mhz less as well on thouroughbred rig

SKATAN

08-30-2002, 03:28 PM

MrIcee

well a friend of mine got a boost of 1000mrks in Oced conditions

gainward ti4600 AXp + 8kha+

i´m getting a boost of 700+-

msi ti4200 8k3a

we had a dif of 5 fps on nature now the diference is 11fps in nature

now with 40.41 my rig 86 fps on nature his rig 97 fps on nature

so higher overclocked cards higher boosts :)

[imho]

MrIcee

08-30-2002, 03:44 PM

SKATAN:)

Was your friend running WinXP or 2000?? I'm going to remove then reinstall my 4 in 1's and 40.41's later tonight..I have family obligations for the next few hours:)

I'm getting 105.5 FPS in Nature at 1683mhz 384/783:D

Randi:D

SKATAN

08-30-2002, 04:31 PM

win2000 :)

mricee I wanna see you do 16k on AMD

I know you can do it :)

here are hes two links

wit a dif of 1000mrks

http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=4081617 13800

http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=4330377 14800

baker18

08-30-2002, 05:36 PM

Gain 1100 points with 40.41 drivers wohoo.......

http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=4341170 16116

majormav

08-30-2002, 05:57 PM

thats some score baker m8 16k club for you congrats

SPQQKY

08-30-2002, 06:43 PM

Once again Win98 is out in the cold. I still can't tweak WinXP enough to match what I can do with Win98. I wish these drivers were available for Win98. I think it's lame that nVidia does this, as if they are in bed with Microshaft to force people to use WinXP if you want performance. I use WinXP for my every day use, but I use Win98 on a seperate drive to seriously benchmark.

Creative

08-30-2002, 06:59 PM

http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=4333430
15058, 2nd only to majormav in both AMD and Intel classes under 3100mhz in the Ti4200 class...:D...silly undervolting IT7, I should stop talking about it and finally mod it eh :)
hehehe

Wish I still had my Ti4600, ahh well the 9700 Pro will have to do :p

baker18

08-30-2002, 07:38 PM

Thanks majormav..

Need some more tweaks if anybody can help....

baker18

PiLsY

08-31-2002, 12:03 AM

Well, Just tried these drivers. And...

1700 mark increase at 1024 (15800 @ default ti4600 clocks) and a 3300 point increase at 640 res (18500 default clocks). Maybe the r9700 pro isnt so necessary now.....

PiLsY.

Creative

08-31-2002, 01:28 AM

Originally posted by PiLsY
Maybe the r9700 pro isnt so necessary now.....

PiLsY.

....for 3dmarking ;)

SPQQKY

08-31-2002, 02:21 AM

I gained 760 points at default bench with no overclocking. Nice indeed. Now I need a set of these drivers for Win98 to really shine. At default I get about 300 points less with WinXP than I do with Win98. Maybe I'll work harder at learning the tweaks for WinXP and start benching with that.

Leo

08-31-2002, 02:31 AM

Originally posted by SPQQKY
I gained 760 points at default bench with no overclocking. Nice indeed. Now I need a set of these drivers for Win98 to really shine. At default I get about 300 points less with WinXP than I do with Win98. Maybe I'll work harder at learning the tweaks for WinXP and start benching with that.

I'd suggest you give Win2K a shot. Should outperform 98 and XP on your AMD system.

Malecky

08-31-2002, 03:50 AM

whoa...these drivers rock...just broke 13k with a Volcano 7 an def cooling on the Siluro..loool

sysfailur

08-31-2002, 08:28 AM

I got all 4 of my wisdom teeth out yesterday, but I'll be back in business. Here's the compares from my before and after.

29.42 drivers, 325/725, 13746 = http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=4284453

40.41 drivers, 325/733, 14808 = http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=4327191

MrIcee

08-31-2002, 01:30 PM

Well boys...what can I say??

I'm officially done benching 3DMark for awhile. NVidia screwed the pooch for us AMD guys...or at least with the way these new dets have handicapped me. I've only made 2 successful runs with them since yesterday. Thats it. My system is now so unstable in 3D that I can no longer get thru the whole bench. I'm not talking at max cpu speed..I'm talking about my test speeds of 1600 and 1700. I can no longer get thru the Dragon tests without the now famous "freeze and release", which in essence drops the score to a totally riddiculous level. Rebenching does the same thing. Going back to the ole 29.40 dets fixes the problem...but of course handicaps the hell out of me.

I've evaluated the 4.05c, 4.20 and 4.30 AGP drivers. BTW...the newest 4.30 AGP driver also is a POS that makes the problem even worse. The 4.20 AGP is still the best choice at this time.

I have tried benching straight thru...and benching the games in different sequences to no avail.

I've reinstalled Win2000, which is the fastest benching AMD OS...along with an upgrade to SP3 instead of SP2 . Nothing I have attempted will alleviate the "freeze and release". I've concluded its a problem inherent in the driver..as I 've seen other AMD users online mentioning this phenomena. It happened only a few times at first..but is now persistent each bench. I've had enough...spent way to much time trying to accomplish something good only to have these drivers frustrate me. I'm sorry boys.....I'll be sitting in the wings waiting for a 9700 Radeon...unless NVidia corrects this problem, which I doubt, as we are in the minority here.

Randi:D

SKATAN

08-31-2002, 01:37 PM

I think these new drivers suck

just good for 3dmark

I get bad texture quality and ocasional black flashes when running d3d or openGL

these 40.41 where rushed out and are buggy

but I dont get that dragotic problem

08-31-2002, 02:26 PM

I'm having a similar problem Skatan. I just did a test run on a OS not near as clean as my old 13100 score and even slightly less clocks and hit 13750.....just seems bogus to me. Yet I play some games that I've played for the last couple years daily and now w/ the new drivers I get corruption all over the place.....similar to tearing. These drivers are crap :)

majormav

08-31-2002, 03:47 PM

my rig wont even get to bench at usual o/c speeds with em however i did gain points at a lower mhz to increase 3d score ..... im no guru on the subject but im wondering if the drivers overclock behind the scenes so when normal o/c applied crashes occour .............. peeps who know these things reply

SKATAN

09-01-2002, 12:42 AM

MrIcee

I did a bit of benching with the new detonators and got the freeze and release in chase high and dragotics

but it was caused by a over the limit GPu OC , lowering the Gpu OC imediatly solved the problem

I know it was GPu Oc related because the freeze ocured exactly in the same spots where I got lock ups with too much GPu Oc with previous drivers

lowering the GPu oc will solve your problem ( I think)

Malecky

09-01-2002, 02:00 AM

Yes I tried games now and.......S_ _T these drivers suck azz why did they release them???

I see a part of my desktop while playing Counterstrike, I get weird artifacts not HW related...

Its weird all the way...my monitor is shaking right now at 85hz WTF???

when installed they rounded my picture I mean the desktop looked like a pumpkin ore somethin.. nvidia.......:flame:

Creative

09-01-2002, 03:07 AM

Originally posted by MrIcee
Well boys...what can I say??
I can no longer get thru the Dragon tests without the now famous "freeze and release", which in essence drops the score to a totally riddiculous level.
Randi:D

I get that on about every 2nd run during Car High detail as the car is rounding the last bend onto the last straight.....

Pisses me off....:mad:

9700...8 days and counting :D
hehehe

sysfailur

09-01-2002, 05:32 AM

Originally posted by Malecky

when installed they rounded my picture I mean the desktop looked like a pumpkin ore somethin.. nvidia.......:flame:

They automatically change your refresh to the best it can be at whatever resolution. Because of this it changes your monitors settings. This happens whenever you change the refresh rate or the resolution.... because it's now happening automatically you'll have to fix your settings. Not really a prob.

Bulldog

09-01-2002, 06:42 AM

Randi, take a look at this chart all test on amd system looks like for us the 30.30 are faster than the 40.s also undr drivers I posted a link to 31.00 thats not on this chart, maybe we (AMD guys) should try them also...just a thought :D

MrIcee

09-01-2002, 07:21 AM

Bulldog:)

As always, thank you for he excellent info you've provided:) If I have the patience later..I'll give the 30.30's a try.

SKATAN:)

Here is what I finally had to do to make these drivers work..but at the same time it reduced my point gain that others are seeing:

I had to reduce my GPU clock from 384Mhz to 378Mhz.This works 75% of the time...tho freezes in the Dragon's or Nature still occur..but less frequently. Its a shame...because my card clocks were part of my equalization to not having xtreme cpu MHZ. I have not read yet of anyone running Intel who is not running full bore(no handicaps as we are seeing on AMD) and achieving a minimum of a 1000 point gain...and in many cases much more. Do I sense some optimizations here that don't completely work on AMD based systems??

I also can't bench at my max CPU speed with these drivers installed. The best I can do is 2054Mhz...from 2064Mhz to 2094Mhz it will freeze even with mild vid card overclocks..or give me blue screen errors attributed to the NV driver. In essence....changing back to the 29.40 drivers eliminated that CPU speed handicap.

Alhough not posted up yet...I did manage to hit 15,875 at 2054Mhz...just 125 points short of the 1st AMD system attaining 16,000 points. The inability to scale up higher in CPU speed, as well as having to reduce my GPU clock, has to this point prevented me from gaining the neccessary 125 points...but despite my previous post of giving up benching...y'all know I'm too addicted and persistant to do that...I'll keep trying...and will give those 30.30's a try.

One thing Bulldog....I follow those charts loosely, as I tried the 29.60 drivers because they scored higher than the 29.40's(I believe from another site tho), and found them sometimes equal too but often times less in scoring.:)

Randi:D

EDIT: I also tried these on a fresh install of WindowsXP with the 4.40 4 in 1's....thinking it might be a Win2000 bug...but the "Freeze and release" problem persists...along with the inability to scale to top CPU Mhz and card clocks, which worked without fault with the 29.40 drivers.

SPQQKY

09-01-2002, 08:32 AM

My Win2k disk has gone bad, I kept getting "disk I/O error: summary = 00008000" so I tried these drivers on a fresh install of WinXP. I could not bench near as high a CPU speed with other drivers and I also kept getting freezes with Drago at 333 core even though I could run Car at 337.5. Riva tuner would not allow hardware OCing, no matter what version I tried, I had to resort to software OCing and coolbits did not work on my benching drive although it is present on my normal OS drive.
Games do seem to be fine for me, however. Played SOF2 for about an hour with good image quality and no apparent problems. I did manage to gain 500 points over my previous 3DMark but cannot upload it at the moment. I have no more time to bench for quite some time, I will go back to the 29.42's for every day use.

MrIcee

09-01-2002, 08:36 AM

Thank you for the input my friend:)

Although its not good news...it's news worth hearing as it confirms what myself and others are experiencing. This is a most frustrating experience overall for us as AMD enthusiasts.

Randi:D

SKATAN

09-01-2002, 09:38 AM

eheheh

only 8 mrks to go 16k ;)

MrIcee

09-01-2002, 09:43 AM

I'm persistent SKATAN..maybe not very patient lately, but persistent..LOL :)

Randi:D

SPQQKY

09-01-2002, 11:29 AM

I was able to complete the full tests a few times, but after a while, I couldn't run the tests all the way through any more even though I allow some time for the system to cool down between each test. I am wondering if it was simple air temps, it was about 79f in the house! I will try again if I can get some cooler air.

PiLsY

09-01-2002, 11:32 AM

Yup, totally agree.

Im finding my score is gradually going down, ive lost some 1500 points so far over about 30 runs. If I go over 330mhz GPU (no matter what voltage - does 330 at stock) then I get the freeze and release really badly. Hardware clocking via riva does work on my day to day partition, But I have no control panel via driver properties. hardware ocing doesnt work on my bench partition, but I do have the control panel.

General opinion from my end is that they suck quite badly, will be going back to 29.42 now. Thank god the R9700 arrives wednesday. Just gotta figure out how to get my water cooling onto it now (swiffy MCW40). Anyone know if itll fit ok?

PiLsY.

majormav

09-01-2002, 12:53 PM

been giving em some stick today and got me back on page 1

http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=4363691

however they wont let me use usual bench speeds

majormav

09-01-2002, 03:20 PM

just read this about the new dets over on madonion

Matt Burris from 3DGPU.com sent in a word that he has got an official explanation about the confusion in regards to the new Detonator 40.41 drivers and anisotropic filtering. Here are the words of NVIDIA's Brian Burke:
The default setting on the new driver and the old driver are both the same. The problem that is being identified is a bug that occurs when the AF settings are changed. It seems that once the AF slider is moved away from 0 to another setting, then back to 0 again, it triggers a bug that causes the control panel to misread the register setting. That setting is not point sampling, but it is something less than 0. The only way to "reset" back to true 0 is by reinstalling the driver or deleting the registry setting.

We are going to fix this bug and others and submit the new BETA driver to WHQL, before the driver moves from BETA to "official"
So, stay tuned for new drivers from NVIDIA

sjohnson

09-01-2002, 05:14 PM

SPQQKY - and all - to do the HW overclock with the new 40's, go to http://www.guru3d.com/files/detonator/ and get the Detonator 40.41 Hidden Features Patch - a .reg file that will enable hw clocks in rivatuner, as well as supposedly adding a temp monitor (don't know about the temp monitor but the HW clock now works for me in rivatuner)...

(Edit) the nvqtwk dll wasn't included in my 40 det package, so rivatuner doesn't seem able to set the clock at boot - but I can still use it after the reg patch to set the clocks.

SPQQKY

09-02-2002, 06:14 AM

I noticed the lock and release in Drago only occurs when fast writes are enabled in BIOS. Can anyone else test this out to confirm? It may be different with other systems.

MrIcee

09-02-2002, 06:34 AM

SPQQKY:)

I'll confirm that isn't the problem. I never have fast writes enabled on my KX7, and even disabled "enhance AGP performance". The most disturbing thing to me is needing to reduce my CPU Mhz in ADDITION to reducing vid card clocks...its a handicap I can't overcome. The Intel systems don't seem to be affected by CPU Mhz in this scenario.

Randi:D

SPQQKY

09-02-2002, 06:44 AM

Why do AMD users continue to get the short end of the stick?

I can also confirm that fast writes isn't the problem. After more testing, I am getting the lock and release no matter what and every time now.

Have you tested the 30.30's yet, Randi? I think those will be my next set of drivers to try, though I may not have time for a few weeks due to my wedding and honeymoon right around the corner. Maybe by then, we'll see some improved drivers.

MrIcee

09-02-2002, 06:52 AM

I have the 30.30's and 31.00's downloaded and saved to cd:) I'll try them soon.

I will try them..but I don't think they are the saviors. If you look at the chart Bulldog posted, then go to their site and see what the benching system was, you'll see what I mean. The card utilized is a GF3...which I believe produces some of the lowest gains with the 40.41's in the first place. Someone should really get that guy a Ti4600...as his testing and evaluation is always excellent and conscise...I've used his evals in the past..but lately his numbers don't always reflect what we achieve with the same drivers on a Ti4600.

Bulldog

09-02-2002, 07:09 AM

I was looking all night for the answer, on a pal's system , as follows a 1.4TB @ 1.63 9.5 x172 on a kx7-333r on air with a GF4Ti4200 @333/587 we had problems on drag and car chase high...we tried this fix ( even though we had none of issues listed)
and combined with 4.42b 4 in 1's on xp pro we were finally able to complete a bench at settings we used with 29.42's and gained 687 points...was it luck,"AMD FIX",4.42's or all of above...will try again today going to try 31.00 and 30.30 today

AMD FIX LINK (http://www.slcentral.com/boards/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2962)

Oh and almost forgot we reinstall direct X 8.1b...

MrIcee

09-02-2002, 08:06 AM

My concern is will this fix work on 2000?? That what most of us benching competitively in 3Dmark are running at the moment. XP totally sucks in 3Dmark benching...and still does with the 40.41's...ie Car low 195FPS in XP...213FPS in 2001. Same in Lobby. Dragon and Nature are unaffected.

I did a clean install of 2000, added SP3, the 4.42's and 40.41's and had worse problems until I reintalled the 4.40 4 in 1's.

I'd like to try the DX fix file..but the link is dead in within your linked article. Its funny that just a change in drivers is relegating us AMD enthusiasts to do so many different fixes to get things to work. Its total BS. My system worked perfect with the 29.40 drivers..and is now rendered completely unstable and inconsistent. Somethings up with this picture indeed.

Randi:D

Bulldog

09-02-2002, 08:15 AM

Randi, sorry no amd systems up with 2k now :( ...heres link to original article and d/l link..HERE (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=4474) ....funny it says on MS site XP only...but your 100% correct that this is BS...but us underdog guys are used to this.

MrIcee

09-02-2002, 09:37 AM

Bulldog:)

I just installed the 30.30's and am happy to report that I benched successfully several times at my test bench speed of 8 x 210(1683Mhz) at my normal card overclocks without a hitch. These drivers are on par with the 29.40's as far as score is concerned..a tad slower...14,083 vs. 14,150ish....but thats within margin of error. Still 600 points under the 40.41's..and of course they don't have the big FPS increase as in the latest dets...but walla!! You can bench without problems.

For all the AMD guys out there...don't frustrate yourselves further with fixes and adjustments and this and that...it's fruitless...its the damn drivers causing all the probs and nothing else. I refuse to keep making changes and fix this file and downclock this and that to run them..its ridiculous. Wait for a better set of Dets with fixes or wait and get the 9700 Pro.

Heres another bone for you all. I have found after benching at 1000mhz(5x199), 1600,1700 and 2055Mhz...that one of the reasons that the 3 Ghz plus Intels are realizing much higher score gains...is that these 40.41's seem to scale in score increase with Mhz. At 1000...I actually scored a few points less than with the 29.40's..thats with full bench clocks etc. As I scale up the increase goes from 500, 600 to 700(closer to 800). I realize my last 29.40 score was 15,397 vs. my current 15,992...but that was done at 2094 vs.2054. My previous 2054 score was 15,202....hence my 700(almost 800) point comparison. I venture to guess with another 100 Mhz it might be a 1000 point increase or more.

Another note is that the 40.41's seem to be the same increase for Intel and AMD in Dragon and Nature depending on card clocks...but the Intels grab higher scores in Car and Lobby with these drivers where AMD takes a slight loss, they seem dependent on total CPU Mhz rather than just FSB speed for the gains to be realized over previous drivers. That about sums up my thoughts for the day:)

Randi:D

SPQQKY

09-02-2002, 05:10 PM

Could someone try this. Try a clean install of the OS, 4.40 4in1's and the 40.41 dets and DO NOT use RivaTuner to change the LOD bias, just set to best performance in the driver properties and do not use Riva to OC, try just using coolbits reg hack. I have been told this will stop the lock and release....the tests are being run over and over without hitches if this is done. I would like to try this myself, but haven't the time and would like some confirmation from one or two other people. Thanks.

RichBa5tard

09-02-2002, 05:27 PM

I've got a 1100 3D marks increase from the 30.81 drivers with a GF4 4200 and a Tbred XP2200+, which puts me nicely on the 5th place at the orb :banana: (amd category, 13360)

True, visual quality isn't good, but I *love* the rotate option in the new drivers. Eh, how odd, these are standard in the ATI catalyst drivers...

I'm going to keep these drivers, otherwise I've got to install a 3th party proggy to rotate my TFT screen. :^/

MrIcee

09-02-2002, 07:41 PM

SPQQKY:)

I will indeed try that approach for evaluation...but it will be tomorrow after work before I can test it. I'll be back with some answers:)

Randi:D

MrIcee

09-02-2002, 10:10 PM

I uninstalled the 40.41's and removed Rivatuner...cleaned the registry of residual tweak enties with RegCleaner...reinstalled the 40.41's and I now have a corrupted partition of Windows 2000 that will no longer completely boot. I'll clean install and see what happens.

BTW...I installed the coolbits reg fix in XP to see what it adds. Checked out the overclocking tab and guess what?? It limits the card to 375Mhz....whereas I was running as high as 384Mhz. I've never happened to see this limitation.

Randi:D

DisposableHero

09-03-2002, 09:15 AM

these new dets dont seem to be very friendly to Icee :(

Chong345

09-03-2002, 09:17 AM

I agree. I think these drivers are out to get MrIcee.

SPQQKY

09-03-2002, 02:51 PM

Well, I actually had some time to try out the above mentioned "fixes" and I can confirm that they are not true. I still got the perpetual decline in scores nad also started seeing the lock and release in Drago as I continued to run the tests. I also could not get my CPU to run stable at it's previous clocks.

I did manage to get 850 more points over my previous highest bench on this system before things starting going bad. I sure hope nvidia fixes these drivers. They have potential.

13,874 (http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=4383608)