Very poor performance. Why?

[Gothic]

I have the following parts:
- XFX 780i 3Way SLI (runing EVGA P10 BIOS)
- Q9450 C1 2.66@3.66GHz (1.28750v in BIOS, 1.26v in cpuz 1.56)
- Cooler Master HAF 932 case with all stock fans
- the rest isnt part of the loop

Wc gear
- Swiftech micro res (attached at the back of the case, next to the VGA)
- Swiftech MPC355 pump (placed at the bottom of the case, at that 120mm bottom fan spot)
- OCZ Hydroflow block
- TFC Monsta Lite 420 Rad with 3x140mm NZXT fans
- Arctic Silver 5 grease

The flow is pump > rad > block > res > pump

I get low 40s at idle, but got up to a scary 76C on all four cores after 5 min of prime blend.

Tried remounting the block 4 times... at best got 0.5C cooler at the last atempt...

Have you guys got any clue of whats wrong here?

More data: the block is really hot to the touch, while the water seem to be barelly warm.

Thanks in advance!

[jumper2high]

Cold water means the heat isn't getting transferred from the CPU onto the water - either the mount is bad (unlikely if you remounted it so many times) or that the CPU block isn't that great (more likely). That's really not a very good block to cool a hot CPU such as a Q9xxx.

[zalbard]

Your block and your TIM are outdated.
76C isn't scary, either.

[Gothic]

Thanks for your input, guys.

I thought these temps were scary because It's over 10 degrees hotter than the temps I had with Corsair H50...

What would be a good block/TIM combination for this setup?

[NaeKuh]

wait im lost in why your hydroflow /w a TFC 140x3 is still losing to a H5O?

We need a full picture of your entire setup.

Also did the block come with a plastic cover on the base?
Did u remove a plastic cover?

If this is your gear:
Wc gear
- Swiftech micro res (attached at the back of the case, next to the VGA)
- Swiftech MPC355 pump (placed at the bottom of the (at that 120mm bottom fan spot)
- OCZ Hydroflow block
- TFC Monsta Lite 420 Rad with 3x140mm NZXT fans

There is no possibility in the relm of physics on why it would lose to a H5O unless your system was wrong somehow.

We need a Full picture.

[Gothic]

I'll take a picture as soon as I get home.

Also forgot to mention I'm using 3/8" tubing.

As for the block, my friends told me it wasnt meant for my system, and thats why I get this difference between idle and load temps. What should I go for? EK Supreme?

[zalbard]

EK Supreme HF is a great choice, yep.
Still, the current setup should perform a lot better than H50...

[NaeKuh]

I'll take a picture as soon as I get home.

Also forgot to mention I'm using 3/8" tubing.

As for the block, my friends told me it wasnt meant for my system, and thats why I get this difference between idle and load temps. What should I go for? EK Supreme?

first try to fix your system b4 buying new stuff.

Regardless of what tubing your on, your setup should beat a H5O, unless someone is wrong with the system.

To make an analogy short, your saying why is this pos Civic DX base, keeping up with my Nissan 350Z.. it just wont unless something is wrong with the 350Z.
And for you smart asses, NO the CIVIC has NO NOS, NO VTEC TIMER, NO ASPIRATION MODS, NO STAGE 3 TURBO, or ANY MODS... FACTORY BASE STRAIGHT.

[Gothic]

Gotta love your analogy! lol

I'll take that picture and remoun it. Again, yes.

[NaeKuh]

If i have to take a guess without a picture.

Im going to say a improperly bleed radiator.

If you have the rad mounted in a horizontal possition with the barbs facing down, so water has to go up to the rad, you will have bleeding issues because u wont be able to push out air from the top portion of your rad.

Then the air acts a heat pocket and greatly reduces the effiency of the rad.

So im guessing your radiator is mounted horizontally, with barbs pointed down, and you didnt fully / properly bleed the system out.

[Wega52]

Bad flow in the system maybe?

[Gothic]

If i have to take a guess without a picture.

Im going to say a improperly bleed radiator.

If you have the rad mounted in a horizontal possition with the barbs facing down, so water has to go up to the rad, you will have bleeding issues because u wont be able to push out air from the top portion of your rad.

Then the air acts a heat pocket and greatly reduces the effiency of the rad.

So im guessing your radiator is mounted horizontally, with barbs pointed down, and you didnt fully / properly bleed the system out.

Yes, it's mounted on top, horizontally with barbs pointing down. but before fixing it at the top of the case, I put it vertically, opened the other 2 barb-mounting-holes (sorry, english is not my native language) and filled with water through one, letting the air got out through the other one.


Bad flow in the system maybe?

By bad flow you mean weak pump? Thx!

[Sideroxylon]

Get a better block. EK Supreme HF is a great block. You'll probably see a +5c difference just doing this over your current block.

Makes sure you're feeding fresh cool air to your rad and not using heated case air. I see a lot of people who mount their rads in the top of their case want to use them as an exhaust. That's terrible for performance.

[JoeBar]

With pump running try to place the case so that the rad is vertical with barbs up. Then u can check whether there is trapped air...

[NaeKuh]

Last guess is he got the inlet and outlet wrong on the cpu block.

This is why we need pictures.. lololz..

[Conumdrum]

Yes, it's mounted on top, horizontally with barbs pointing down. but before fixing it at the top of the case, I put it vertically, opened the other 2 barb-mounting-holes (sorry, english is not my native language) and filled with water through one, letting the air got out through the other one.



By bad flow you mean weak pump? Thx!

Bubbles move. The rad WAS probably full of water at one time, but once the loop is started up bubbles will migrate back up there. Close the res tight after filling 100%, and start rotating the case. Bet you'll find big bubbles.

[matari]

Fix what you have before you upgrade. Artic Silver 5 is crap compared to the new stuff out there. mx-2 or mx-4 are good choices. Cure time on both is less 12 hours and you don't have to wurm it up to use it.

[Conumdrum]

AS5 is NOT Crap. It's not as good by 1-3C from MX2 etc and others. But it's not crap. Many people still use it with great success. Me? Nope, I use MX2.

You need a link to read?

http://skinneelabs.com/indigo-xtreme/

[matari]

What is ac5 cure time 200 hours? Way to long. No one could pay me to use that again. Not to mention it is hard to trouble shoot; did he put too much or did he not cure it correctly. Not worth the effort when you can get mx-2 for around the same price.

[NaeKuh]

once again his system is ranked mid/upper tier.

Ignoring the waterblock:
- Swiftech micro res (attached at the back of the case, next to the VGA)
- Swiftech MPC355 pump (placed at the bottom of the case, at that 120mm bottom fan spot)
- OCZ Hydroflow block
- TFC Monsta Lite 420 Rad with 3x140mm NZXT fans
- Arctic Silver 5 grease

Those ARE NOT LOW CLASS EQ.

The 355 is the DDC-3.2 incase none of u guys knew who tells him he has a bad pump.
The TFC is a 140x3 radiator also incase none of u guys knew.

He is driving a V8, and he's pulling less then a golf cart.
So i am lost in why u guys are not helping him figure out why his engine is not producing, instead telling him to change this to that.

Something is WRONG with his system.
Its either Flow, which i doubt, due to the 355, unless its not plug'd in or its dead.
Its improperly bleed radiator, which im leaning on mostly..
Or he got the INLET and OUTLET on this CPU block flipped, so the outlet is pulling water in, and the inlet is pulling water out.

[Alexandr0s]

I have to agree with NaeKuh, you should be getting much lower temperatures, unless it's 35 degrees in Brazil atm, and you have no airco. Then it might make a bit more sense ;). Anyway, just to repeat what NaeKuh said: If possible, take pictures!

[theseeker]

NaeKuh is correct; you have a basic problem somewhere in your system. If you do not find it and fit it, you will only make matters worse.

[eth0s]

NaeKuh is right, something is wrong here. So you have to do some troubleshooting. First thing to check is the power supply. Make sure you are getting 12V to the pump and the fans. Use a voltmeter. Second thing to check is ambient temps. It is summer in Brazil right now, so do you have high ambient temps? My next line of inquiry would be to check that your OCZ block is not making good contact with cpu. I have no idea how it mounts, but maybe it is not clamped down tight enough. I know you re-set the block three times, but if you are doing it the same way each time, and that way is wrong, then you are not improving it at all. Next thing to check is the fans. Are they working properly? Also check the rad for dust or other airflow blockage. The other thing to check is to make sure the pump is working properly. After that, I would say you have to look at unlikely things like a leak, or a blockage in the tubes or block or rad. Is this stuff new or did you buy it used? If used parts, then they may be damaged or corroded. Another problem could be biological, you did put some biocide in the water, right? You are not using tap water? If bio-orgainisms are living in there, the water could be like sludge. So that is where to start. Maybe tear the loop down and inspect each part, and rebuild it, with distilled water and biocide. New tubes never hurt anything, and they are relatively inexpensive.

[matt220]

Something is WRONG with his system.
Its either Flow, which i doubt, due to the 355, unless its not plug'd in or its dead.
Its improperly bleed radiator, which im leaning on mostly..
Or he got the INLET and OUTLET on this CPU block flipped, so the outlet is pulling water in, and the inlet is pulling water out.

Its also entirely possible that he lost the silicon lottery with his cpu, and it just runs extremely hot.

[Ferosin]

Thanks for your input, guys.

I thought these temps were scary because It's over 10 degrees hotter than the temps I had with Corsair H50...

What would be a good block/TIM combination for this setup?


Its also entirely possible that he lost the silicon lottery with his cpu, and it just runs extremely hot.

Its not that his chips running hot but the fact that his setup is 10 deg warmer than a corsair H50 which is a single 120rad vs his new setup with a better pump and a 3x140 rad.

[danielkza]

He definitely has high ambient temps, the forecast for tomorrow in São Paulo is 33C. :ROTF:

[PatRaceTin]

yes my country also upto 40C in summer

[zads]

He definitely has high ambient temps, the forecast for tomorrow in São Paulo is 33C. :ROTF:

90 degrees F.. I'm slightly jealous.

I will say that its probably bubbles accumulated or static in the system that's killing the flow, combined with the older block.
Cold water means either bad mount or no water flow.

For comparison,
My Q9450 @ 3.2Ghz (1.225v) does 60F in the winter to ~78-80F
using a Xigmatek S-1283 (standard 120mm heatpipe air cooler)
in ambient temperatures from 45 deg F to 75 deg F (I don't let it crunch when it gets hotter than that).

[BeepBeep2]

I dont see it impossible that an H50 would beat this, considering the baseplates Asetek uses are pretty darn nice.

[Alexandr0s]

a pretty darn nice baseplate? I'm sorry, I have a hard time believing a 'pretty darn nice baseplate' beats the raw cooling power of a Monsta Lite.

[Vinas]

I have the following parts:
More data: the block is really hot to the touch, while the water seem to be barelly warm.
Thanks in advance!

It sound like it could be a water flow problem. Check for kinks and pump pressure. Are your rad fans plugged in and turned on? The block shouldn't really be hot to the touch, it should be dumping that heat into the liquid instead. If you have a flow problem then that would explain the heat @ the block.

[BeepBeep2]

a pretty darn nice baseplate? I'm sorry, I have a hard time believing a 'pretty darn nice baseplate' beats the raw cooling power of a Monsta Lite.

Considering the Hydroflow's actual contact area is barely bigger than the die itself, and doesn't touch the whole IHS...

http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr10/FrostyPanda/OCZ-Hydroflow-7.jpg

vs.

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/9287/h50base.jpg

If heat cant get to the monsta lite then what good is it?

[NaeKuh]

Considering the Hydroflow's actual contact area is barely bigger than the die itself, and doesn't touch the whole IHS...


Can i remind you how small the die is under the IHS?

And are you telling me that your cooling head needs to cover the entire IHS?
(errrrrr u been here since 2009, though most of the block revolution and your saying the cooling head needs to cover the entire IHS?)

Dont u remember what the STEP or BOW in blocks did?
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p73/aigomorla/IMG_0062.jpg

Because no, there is nothing wrong with the hydro edge.

Infact Tony used it once to cool a yorkfield without a pump and just pure water to tank using convection.. (warm water travels up while the colder water goes down, and it did a very good job.

It should be a little better then apogeeGT to vapors test. It should be on par almost with a ApogeeGTX, and a little bit worse then a d-tek fusion if i remember correctly.

Anyhow im waiting for the OP to come back and post some pictures.


It sound like it could be a water flow problem. Check for kinks and pump pressure. Are your rad fans plugged in and turned on? The block shouldn't really be hot to the touch, it should be dumping that heat into the liquid instead. If you have a flow problem then that would explain the heat @ the block.

Yeah im thinking his inlet and outlet are either flipped, or his pump is failing or not pluged in.

[MadHacker]

I think everybody is missing a key component here
from the OP



More data: the block is really hot to the touch, while the water seem to be barelly warm.

that tells me that CPU and WB is making good contact.
since the WB is hot... and really shouldn't be.
even at a low flow rate the CPU block wouldn't get that hot.
only thing i can guess is that your flow rate is almost nothing.
the cool water isn't getting to the CPU block. or at least not enough of it.

check your flow.
low flow could be from an air pocket in the pump preventing the water to get pumped through.
alternatively a kinked hose. some kind of blockage.

[Alexandr0s]

Hmm, totally overlooked that actually. MadHacker is absolutely right. Lack of flow is atm the main suspect.

[BeepBeep2]

Even I agree, now.

While I don't appreciate NaeKuh asking me if he needs to tell me the die size (trust me I already know it, 214mm^2)...and the size of the patch on the base of the Hydroflow, which is approx 242mm^2...I'm pretty sure heat spreads out further than this through the IHS. For example, would the block be able to handle Kentsfield well with it's 286mm^2 die? Lynnfield is 296mm^2 itself.

Also, NaeKuh, blocks are bowed so under mounting pressure they will have even contact across the whole IHS. If I'm wrong about that, then correct me but there's a specific reason why lapping heatkiller blocks lowers performance, because the bow is gone and contact isnt even.

I shouldn't have said that the loop could be that much worse than the H50, but I would like to state that the block probably has a large effect on temps combined with speculated lack of flow.