Horror in my loop

[Salamndar]

Good day good people of Xtreme systems forums, today I decided to clean my loop completely so I can fit with some new parts and into a new case, guess what I found.................. check these pictures :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/hmj2k3/2011-02-15003107-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/hmj2k3/2011-02-15003245.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/hmj2k3/2011-02-15003253.jpg


what should I do exactly, ohh I've had my water cooling parts for 14 months now, I changed water in the loop 3 times, I use Dis. water + PT_Nuke.

My loop parts are :

Swiftech XT, swiftech radiators, Swiftech 355 Pump, XSPC res. and tigun tubes.

[Conumdrum]

How much PT nuke?

[theseeker]

Demineralized water is the best option going forward. You can clean the copper very easily with ketchup and a toothbrush. Vinegar works well too.

[Salamndar]

4 drops / liter

[Salamndar]

Demineralized water is the best option going forward. You can clean the copper very easily with ketchup and a toothbrush. Vinegar works well too.

I use pure dist. water that I buy from a car bat. shop

[Quad-Damage]

Looks like 2 much pt nuke. big drops I bet I had the same issue with my old loop

Take it easy on the PT, they do give you a life time supply of it so take it easy on it slugger

Better clean it up, Tran X works great BTW

[zigzag]

Isnt it supposed to be only 2 drops per litre?

[gmat]

The green stuff looks like copper oxydation ? Seems reasonable since there is nothing in your coolant that would dampen acidity. Acid, water and metals = battery effect. I would suggest adding some kind of dampener (a base, pH>7) in order to prevent the liquid from attacking your metals. Very pure water such as distilled water will become acidic in no time with just contact with the air. Metal ions added to it will accelerate the process.

[Salamndar]

OMG...:shocked:Just my luck, as I was cleaning the water block my little 10 month old son was able to reach the disassembled parts and he dropped some of the screws some where and I can't find them !!! :mad:

Now I have a semi clean dysfunctional water block !

:shakes:

Should buy a new water block tomorrow and delay my build a week or so......

[Holst]

Those screws must be a standard thread. You should be able to buy some replacements from somewhere.

[matari]

Black stuff is oxidation; the stuff in the barbs looks like algae. Easy to fix, just make sure you clean the radiator well.

[Waterlogged]

Clearly to much Nuke (1-2 drops/liter only)...and I'm going to say that it blended with the plasticizer from the Tygon to form what your seeing.

[Salamndar]

Isnt it supposed to be only 2 drops per litre?

Sorry that I failed to mention that I use PT_Nuke -PHN and not PT_Nuke, which states on the bottle to use 4 drops / liter !

also if you look at the 3rd fitting - the one on the left side - that seems to be rust as I scratched with my finger to have a chunk of the fitting itself to fall on the ground.

I've ordered a new water block since it is impossible to find screws from these size where I live and I also ordered 2 fittings to replace the ones that have rusty edges. :shakes:

[dinos22]

a was fully expecting a Dracula living in your loop :D

[Salamndar]

a was fully expecting a Dracula living in your loop :D

:ROTF: It is the lake slimy monster that lives in this water block !!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/hmj2k3/image4.jpg

[Captain_Harlock]

By the way, a side note about the PT-Nuke products. I've seen several people point out as of late on several threads that its a lifetime supply. If I remember correctly, its only good for a couple of years as it will begin to break down after that. Correct me if I'm wrong on this one.

[voigts]

I'm seeing one too many threads lately where people are using just distilled water and PT Nuke PHN and having issues like this. It leaves me to wonder why when so many of us use the same combination and never have a problem.

[Salamndar]

I'm starting to suspect the quality of dist. water that I use, yet the tygan tubes gets clouded in just a month of use !

I'm so clueless regarding the issue, I really need to find what's wrong so it won't happen again.

[xcooling]

its all down to the PH level of the distilled water.

Some samples I tested were around the PH 4.5 mark.

[PatRaceTin]

hmmmm interesting

[gmat]

Some samples I tested were around the PH 4.5 mark.
That's not surprising considering it will form up ions quite fast when in contact with the atmosphere. That's why some pH buffer would be needed...

[k0rnh0li0]

14 months and how many times did you take it apart for cleaning and whatnot

[voigts]

I'm going to have to go by a pet store and get a PH test kit. I've never had any problems just using grocery store distilled, but it would be interesting to see what the PH is of the stuff I'm using.

[Salamndar]

14 months and how many times did you take it apart for cleaning and whatnot

I cleaned the parts when I first got them, then I made water change + tube changes 3 times during this period in which tubes seems to cloud very fast within the first 5 weeks!!!

Then I tried to clean the parts last night when I was shocked to see what I saw!
:shrug:

[musicfan]

I'm starting to suspect the quality of dist. water that I use, yet the tygan tubes gets clouded in just a month of use !

I'm so clueless regarding the issue, I really need to find what's wrong so it won't happen again.

In post #13, you describe rust or corrosion. There is no evidence of biological contamination other than your fitting was green, which could be corrosion and not necessarily biological. It is interesting that benzalkonium can be inactivated by inorganic contamination (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzalkonium_chloride) (metals?). But many use PT Nuke PHN without biological growth so that is confusing. The plasticizers with Tygon 3603 are well-know but do they get hard? I thought they were mushy and could be cleaned out fairly easily like running a cloth on a wire through the tubing. If there is anything mushy, you could look at it under a microscope for fungal elements. A 10% potassium hydroxide solution (safe) can make it easier but pending that, I would be hesitant to call this biological (do you have a friend who is a medical assistant or med tech who could help?).

Anyway, thank you for this interesting thread. The reason I posted was to offer an idea. Here is my own testing but it's still beta:

I built a new loop last June with cleaned-out new gear using only steam distilled water + silver. Last partial water change water was September when adding a rotary fitting.

I am testing 3 different tubings: MasterKleer mostly but two long pieces of different diameters of Tygon 3603. The MK is crystal clear now 9 months later and all Tygon is cloudy - presumably plasticizers. I have never used PT Nuke but bought some PHN.

Even though it is early to draw conclusions on my testing, you could try MasterKleer and silver and see how you do. Good luck :)

[Salamndar]

I had ordered new tubes last week, I decided to drop the tygon and go Primochill tubes for a change, yet what I see on my loop is more corrosion than any thing else, which again is pushing me towards buying thermochill EC6. :shrug:

[penguins]

Tubes don't cause corrosion, maybe you're talking about plasticizer?

[Salamndar]

Tubes don't cause corrosion, maybe you're talking about plasticizer?

Tubes don't cause corrosion but plasticizer is also nasty !

[penguins]

*looks at own tubes* Yep, yep it is.

[Salamndar]

Guys what's the best way to clean the Res. I tried to scratch it with some cotton but that did not work, the acrylic in my res. is also kind of fuggy :confused:

[matari]

I never been able to clean a clouded reservoir. There was thread a while back about trying to clean a clouded GPU (Shazza I think). please post a picture of your cleaned CPU block.

[Salamndar]

I never been able to clean a clouded reservoir. There was thread a while back about trying to clean a clouded GPU (Shazza I think). please post a picture of your cleaned CPU block.

Would love to but after cleaning the internal of the block ( though not 100% clean ) I decided to screw it back with its top using the 2 screws left, alas I over tightened the screws so one of them doesn't unscrew any more :shrug:

[musicfan]

Guys what's the best way to clean the Res. I tried to scratch it with some cotton but that did not work, the acrylic in my res. is also kind of fuggy :confused:

one thread reported using rice & vinegar to clean out an infected acrylic reservoir but i have no personal experience with this

here is a thread on using silver as a biocide that i meant to leave with my earlier post:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=231077&mode=linear

good luck :)

[airs]

I cleaned my 4 year old EK res using Klasse All in One - its crystal clear again now.

[WrigleyVillain]

Yeah I had some gunk like this in my block last time I checked as well, jug of distilled from the grocery + PT. Don't think I overdid the latter but possible.

[k0rnh0li0]

so is it the tubing or the water?

[Aaronharmon]

Horror... Horror has a face... and you must make a friend of horror. Horror and moral terror are your friends. If they are not, then they are enemies to be feared.

[Computurd]

Horror... Horror has a face... and you must make a friend of horror. Horror and moral terror are your friends. If they are not, then they are enemies to be feared.
ROFL! any relation to mark?

[Salamndar]

Horror... Horror has a face... and you must make a friend of horror. Horror and moral terror are your friends. If they are not, then they are enemies to be feared.

Errrr....................OK :rolleyes:

[Vinas]

Tubes don't cause corrosion but plasticizer is also nasty !My tygon tubes did the same thing. Weird part, is that the separate GPU loop did not turn as cloudy, using the same tubing. This leads me to believe something in our loops to be causing the problem. (you can see it in my avatar) Leaning towards too much PT Nuke, because I use that also but seem to remember putting much less in the GPU loop.

[WrigleyVillain]

So I might move on to silver I'm thinking, at least when I get new block(s).

[k0rnh0li0]

well now we know if we use too much pt nuke it clouds up your loop but how much does it affect your blocks.

kill coil looks like the easier way to go just dropping it into your res.

much learned

[Salamndar]

well now we know if we use too much pt nuke it clouds up your loop but how much does it affect your blocks.

kill coil looks like the easier way to go just dropping it into your res.

much learned

Ya I'm thinking of dropping PT_Nuke, there is a silver shop close to where I live, might pass by and ask for a string of silver.

[k0rnh0li0]

could we pick it up @ any jewelry store and how much do we need?

[KingOfsorroW]

Will a small piece of 925 silver work?

[musicfan]

could we pick it up @ any jewelry store and how much do we need?

Yes, but you need 99.9% or .999 silver for best results. Sterling is 92%. The silver coils are 1 to 2 grams but one person used a 10 gm ingot to avoid movement in the reservoir.

When I tear down again, I am going to try true silver fittings (http://www.jab-tech.com/Silver-Plated-Fittings-and-adapters-c-344.html). Allegedly 2 to 4 will equal a coil from various threads.

General link on silver from this forum listed above (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=231077&mode=linear)

buy (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/sikibyia.html) or make your own (http://www.realredraider.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2088) silver coils which I have done and they are easy to make.

[Eldonko]

Wow that is crazy. I have used nothing but pure distilled water for 7 years now and Ive never had any issues like this. :o

[WrigleyVillain]

Yeah unless we just got poorly filtered distilled (which I suppose is possible) then it's got be the PTN...

[Salamndar]

The major question really is what's causing the corrosion in the loop?

How could some one know that the dist. water they are using is of a good quality !!?!?
:shrug:

[lilmanmgf]

Well this has thoroughly scared the crap out of me. I went a little heavy with the PT nuke in my loop, since last time when I followed their instructions algae started to grow.

[Salamndar]

Well this has thoroughly scared the crap out of me. I went a little heavy with the PT nuke in my loop, since last time when I followed their instructions algae started to grow.

I have never used more than what has been written on the PT_NUKE PTN bottle....4 drops/ 1 liter, that's what I do, I use 4 drops in a 1 Liter of dist. water then shake it a little before I use around .7 of a liter in my loop

[matari]

You said you cleaned your gear multiple times in 14 months. How did you clean them?

[Salamndar]

You said you cleaned your gear multiple times in 14 months. How did you clean them?

water blocks and rads as soon as I purchased them, I used hot water + vinegar then flushed with dist. water.

Then changed tubes 2 or 3 times in these 14 months, then decided to do a full cleanup before I started this thread when I decovered what I found in my water block.

[Conumdrum]

Hmm, 14 months is a bit long for a full rebuild. But you had issues before the 14 months? Why did you change out your tubes in the first place? Was stuff looking bad way back when?

Example, my tubing has always been clean, never a reason to even replace tubing, some of my tubing is two years old.

[Salamndar]

Hmm, 14 months is a bit long for a full rebuild. But you had issues before the 14 months? Why did you change out your tubes in the first place? Was stuff looking bad way back when?

Example, my tubing has always been clean, never a reason to even replace tubing, some of my tubing is two years old.

I changed my tubing because they cloud after around 5 weeks in loop!

[Big Myke]

Do you have any after pictures of your block being cleaned?

[Salamndar]

Do you have any after pictures of your block being cleaned?

Sadly...no, 2 of the remaining screws got their head damaged during reinstalling after cleaning, the block was not 100% clean though.

[DexNfX]

Is it even worth it to clean? I'd just sell what I can and buy new parts.

[lilmanmgf]

I have never used more than what has been written on the PT_NUKE PTN bottle....4 drops/ 1 liter, that's what I do, I use 4 drops in a 1 Liter of dist. water then shake it a little before I use around .7 of a liter in my loop

Yeah, we will see what it is like in a week when I go home. Did you notice any drop in temp? I have some hope that all will be okay since I mixed my water with BMW Anti-Freeze which should further inhibit corrosion.

[matari]

It is possible that your blocks occured damage when you used vineger. I had similar (not as bad) damage when I used vineger on my heatkiller 3.0. You really need to nutralize the acid before you rinse with distilled.

[k0rnh0li0]

so i heard to not use vinegar anymore. supposedly the ketchup and toothbrush method works but doesn't clean it all the way. poor ketchup.

we need to find a solvent to clean up this gunk. plastercizing is a bummer also so no go on tygon.

isn't 4 drop of PT nuke too much where it ends up clouding or was that because of tubing?

[WrigleyVillain]

Yeah I used ketchup + toothbrush inside my GTZ last time. The darkish gunk did come out but it definitely left a stain on the copper.

[Salamndar]

So I decided to clean my XSPC dual 5.25 dual pump reservoir as I only use one pump.
SO the chamber that I use in the reservoir seems also foggy and what ever I do it won't come out,when I removed the pump I could see some light green material like the one I found on the fittings, I was able to scratch it of the O ring, then I realized my reservoir is foggy due to Plasticizer, I tried some hot water and then I could smell some nasty chemical scent that is coming out of the reservoir !! :(

[theseeker]

I changed my tubing because they cloud after around 5 weeks in loop!

Your tubing clouds in 5 weeks? :eek:

[WrigleyVillain]

FFS this thread is making me want to disassemble my block again even though it's such a pain. I wish I would have caught on and stopped using PTN after the first discovery of crap. At least to potentially rule it out.

[matari]

I would not blame pt nuke just yet; too much vineger is my best bet. It would be nice to see if Ek finished their test on nuke.

[penguins]

Ek's test on Nuke has nothing to do with waterblocks, or the OP's problem. it's tube plasticizer.

[Salamndar]

Guys, can I used 925 silver rather than 999 silver as a kill Coil ?

[KingOfsorroW]

Guys, can I used 925 silver rather than 999 silver as a kill Coil ?

+1 to the question :cool:

[Neutronman]

I've been using uncolored PrimoChill ICE, already pre mixed with everything a good loop needs, never discolors or clouds, apart from a little copper oxidation my loop has been clear for the last 8 months. Perhaps you had a bad batch of PT Nuke??

[Conumdrum]

Guys, can I used 925 silver rather than 999 silver as a kill Coil ?

I'd say no. Why did you have issues with PT nuke when so many don't?

Something else is missing. Maybe you hae a nasty thing in your house, monster-like.

We don't know the whole story. You leave your PC off for a week near a window? Just clean it right, start over. Maybe we need to call in Vegas CSI, it's beyond me.

[Salamndar]

I'd say no. Why did you have issues with PT nuke when so many don't?

Something else is missing. Maybe you hae a nasty thing in your house, monster-like.

We don't know the whole story. You leave your PC off for a week near a window? Just clean it right, start over. Maybe we need to call in Vegas CSI, it's beyond me.

My PC is in the darkest place in the house... infact my wife calls it the grave side!!! :D


I just got a nice 5G 999 Silver chunk, right now it is inside my res. :up:

[WrigleyVillain]

Yes we don't have enough info at this time but he is not the only one. Perhaps some others just haven't noticed. I probably never would have taken my block apart but I had to in order to convert it to S1156.

[Salamndar]

Here are some pics for the new loop, every thing is new, except the pump and radiator, I just changed the pump place into bay 2 in the reservoir...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/hmj2k3/2011-02-23201643.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/hmj2k3/2011-02-23201624.jpg


And some dark pics:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/hmj2k3/2011-02-23212916.jpg

[WrigleyVillain]

It's baaaack. This is about four months since the last time I opened the block. Granted, there's dust and even dog hairs in there (oops) but that's obviously not the main issue--that greyish gunk. I have since stopped using PT Nuke and also switched to Hinckley Springs distilled from Walgreen's store brand. Be nice to know which (if either) it was but I went ahead and changed both factors now as this is bad news. Temps have dropped 2C at idle.

http://img.techpowerup.org/110327/P3200064.jpg

[Lome]

Im realy not sure how algae can grow without nutrients in the loop, ...
not to mention the co2 and oxygen that would be required for algae to grow.

[spitter3]

Im realy not sure how algae can grow without nutrients in the loop, you guys sure you arent pissing and :banana::banana::banana::banana:ting in the res before starting it up?
not to mention the co2 and oxygen that would be required for algae to grow.

Algae only needs water and co2 and a little light to grow. Autotroph.

[shazza]

Hard to tell without analysis ... but it's also possible those gray bits are pieces of tissue that have worked their way into the block. Did you ever use any thing to dry the inside portions of your fittings that could leave this type of residue?

[Conumdrum]

Betcha thats leftover chunks in your rad. Like a scab, they fall off sooner or later. I don't see growth, just blobs.