Need a new gaming monitor (old one bit the dust)

[GameGuru]

Ok so here's the deal. My trusty old Dell 24"(16:10) bit the dust last night and I need to replace her and I'm looking to replace it with another 24". I'll be using it for gaming and web browsing only (no movies), so I need something fast with a great picture. I'm looking spend up to $500 give or take. Truth is I haven't looked into monitors since 2006/2007 so I need advise from people here on XS. What do you all recommend?

Thanks in advance :up:

[Sam_oslo]

I haven't followed with monitors lately, but I have been wondering about 120Hz 3D monitors here (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=260254) and it may could be a good option for you too. I have found a Asus VG236H + NVIDIA 3D Vision kit for a good price too.


Anandtech (http://www.anandtech.com/show/3842/asus-vg236h-review-our-first-look-at-120hz/9)says:
On the whole I’m pretty pleased with the display characteristics on paper, the VG236H is an admirable TN performer, arguably one of the best. and 120Hz 3D monitors seams to have a good TN-panels, according to other reviews too.

A 120Hz 3D monitors seams to be a better option than ordinary TN, but as said, monitor is not my thing, and I'm wondering what others mean about it.

[zalbard]

Yeah, make sure it's 120Hz if you're only interested in gaming.

[zanzabar]

Yeah, make sure it's 120Hz if you're only interested in gaming.

but then u are stuck with 16:9, the asus 25.5" 16:10 is doing good for me (atleast for being an lcd and TN), it only took about 3 weeks to not be disappointed coming from a crt

[zalbard]

but then u are stuck with 16:9, the asus 25.5" 16:10 is doing good for me (atleast for being an lcd and TN), it only took about 3 weeks to not be disappointed coming from a crt
60Hz IS slower, though. Plus you do not really need those few extra pixels badly unless you are going to play a lot of RTS games.

[Sam_oslo]

but then u are stuck with 16:9, the asus 25.5" 16:10 is doing good for me (atleast for being an lcd and TN), it only took about 3 weeks to not be disappointed coming from a crt

Yeah 16:9 could be a turn-off after you got used to 16:10, but all new monitors seams to insist on 16:9 format. I think it is a matter of getting used to it. Unless you use SW with complex interface that need the extra space it shouldn't be a big deal, in my opinion.

EDIT:

Yeah, make sure it's 120Hz if you're only interested in gaming.

You beat me on that comment, but any specific 120Hz you have in mind?

[zanzabar]

Yeah 16:9 could be a turn-off after you got used to 16:10, but all new monitors seams to insist on 16:9 format. I think it is a matter of getting used to it. Unless you use SW with complex interface that need the extra space it shouldn't be a big deal, in my opinion.

EDIT:


You beat me on that comment, but any specific 120Hz you have in mind?

yes i do use drafting and video/photo editing

but i tried out the acer 120hz at frys with SF4 and it did not do any better, the only advantage could be 3d vision but the demos of wow, RE4 and CSS looked like cutouts at different planes so i dont see why u would want that

[Frag Maniac]

Unless you are interested in 3D, don't even bother with a 120Hz monitor. You're also settling for 6 bit TN quality if you do. At the price range mentioned you could do much better to get the Dell U2410. http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-DELL-U2410-24in-IPS-LCD-MONITOR-FREE-SHIPPING-/170547754473?pt=Computer_Monitors&hash=item27b57035e9#ht_3106wt_1140

As for 120Hz, 3D aside, some HDTVs actually game at 120Hz better than monitors do. I myself am now considering the Panasonic TC-L42U25 42" HDTV with IPS panel and 120Hz tech. It's already down to $665 at Amazon and may go as low as $600 during the holidays or just prior to the Super Bowl.

[GameGuru]

So I'm not apposed to 3D but it's also not that big a deal. The idea seems cool but honestly I don't know how much I would use it. The TV idea is interesting although I don't think I'd want a 42" screen as a desktop, maybe a 32"? I've read up on the Dell U2410 and seems like a really good monitor and I do like the fact that its 16:10 but I'm not sold on that. I'm still looking for suggestions. Mainly I want something with low input lag and no ghosting with a great picture. I'm sure I could get use to 16:9 but if I get what I want at 16:10 that would be ideal.

[zanzabar]

Unless you are interested in 3D, don't even bother with a 120Hz monitor. You're also settling for 6 bit TN quality if you do. At the price range mentioned you could do much better to get the Dell U2410. http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-DELL-U2410-24in-IPS-LCD-MONITOR-FREE-SHIPPING-/170547754473?pt=Computer_Monitors&hash=item27b57035e9#ht_3106wt_1140

As for 120Hz, 3D aside, some HDTVs actually game at 120Hz better than monitors do. I myself am now considering the Panasonic TC-L42U25 42" HDTV with IPS panel and 120Hz tech. It's already down to $665 at Amazon and may go as low as $600 during the holidays or just prior to the Super Bowl.

that panasonic is not 120hz its 60hz input then it has motion focus. i have the s1 (last years one of that) it games much better with no motion focus and the only improvements with it are from 1080i content and with 1080p it can add artifacts with dark items and fast movement. it is a solid display though for an lcd

[Frag Maniac]

@Bogus,
With all you said, the Dell U2410 I linked to sounds like your best bet, esp if you want 16:10. It's also fairly low in input lag. If I were looking for a 24" monitor, it would be my top choice, esp at that price I listed. Some whom prefer 16:10 waited too long and now there are hardly any in affordable price ranges. Panasonic does have a 32" U22 model TV that has an Alpha IPS panel and I've seen it for as low as $430 (special sale Sears had). It doesn't have Motion Focus and "120Hz" Motion Picture Pro 4, but you probabaly wouldn't get any benefit from those features in gaming anyway. I saw a good HD loop on this set at Sears which included a variety of content including some game footage and it looked sharp and clear with no ghosting or blurring.

Note that the best time to buy TVs is right after the holiday season, but DO NOT wait until after the Super Bowl. In the US the Super Bowl sales are pretty much THE LAST ONES for any given model yr. In fact if the set you're looking to buy is very popular, it can sell out even before the end of the holiday season. Right now the lowest price on the TC-L32U22 seems to be about $448 at Amazon and B&H Photo. It will probably go down to at least $400 when they clear them out.

@Zan,
I didn't actually say the TC-L42U25 is 120Hz, no TVs really are. I said it has 120Hz "tech" meaning the fake frame insertion all TVs use for the "120Hz" designation. Motion Picture Pro 4 is not merely 120Hz "input" as you say. I've seen MPP3 on their 2009 37" and it really does help smooth out motion. Panny has one of the best motion processing in the biz. Also, I'm not interested in the MPP or MF for gaming, just sports and action movies.

As for input lag I have heard talk that their 2010 models aren't as low in lag as their 2009 models, but I've seen no tests done to prove or disprove it. There's also no reason to believe it would be higher when MF and MPP4 is turned off because contrary to what those spreading the rumors are saying, it does have an Alpha IPS panel like last yr's models too. A tech at Panasonic verified that all TC models have Alpha IPS.

[tet5uo]

A true 120Hz monitor is my vote.

I've got 3 of the acer GD235hz and they're awesome for gaming.

Nothing lets you unleash your full fury like 120 FPS. It's why I took so long to give up my Trinitron CRT till it finally died.

[zanzabar]

@Zan,
I didn't actually say the TC-L42U25 is 120Hz, no TVs really are. I said it has 120Hz "tech" meaning the fake frame insertion all TVs use for the "120Hz" designation. Motion Picture Pro 4 is not merely 120Hz "input" as you say. I've seen MPP3 on their 2009 37" and it really does help smooth out motion. Panny has one of the best motion processing in the biz. Also, I'm not interested in the MPP or MF for gaming, just sports and action movies.

As for input lag I have heard talk that their 2010 models aren't as low in lag as their 2009 models, but I've seen no tests done to prove or disprove it. There's also no reason to believe it would be higher when MF and MPP4 is turned off because contrary to what those spreading the rumors are saying, it does have an Alpha IPS panel like last yr's models too. A tech at Panasonic verified that all TC models have Alpha IPS.

im not sure on motion focus4 but when 3 was set up on a demo they did not say that it was 120hz (it did do 120hz with interlacing like the 2010 that are 120hz) and it always had mpeg noise reduction with it (the one that helps broadcasts and upscales), but motion focus makes things worse for gaming from a pc but the mpeg noise reduction will help if u have any up scaling or deinterlacing. froma pc input though there is no diffrence if not worse with motion focus or noise reduction or any of the other image processing and they add latency. if u got something like a 3d ready with 120hz input or a mitsu dlp that would be the best option but for a monitor and on a TN panel u change from an 8bit to a 6bit when u go to 120hz and for some god forsaken reason they are only 16:9 or tiny, dvi dual link and hdmi dual link both do 1920x1200 120hz so i dont see why no1 makes one even for a limited run.


A true 120Hz monitor is my vote.

I've got 3 of the acer GD235hz and they're awesome for gaming.

Nothing lets you unleash your full fury like 120 FPS. It's why I took so long to give up my Trinitron CRT till it finally died.

same here, but im still not happy, i want ips or projection and 120hz or 100hz. i tried the 120hz acer and a few others but ended up with the asus 25.5" as it was the last 16:10 that i could get for under $500 that was not that bad samsung bwb

[GameGuru]

Has anyone seen any recent articles doing a round up of 3d monitors or 120hz monitors. It's seems like we have a bunch and would be great to narrow one down. NEC, Acer, Samsung, Alienware, ASUS. Am I missing any?

[Zloyd]

I too was caught with the 120hz 3D bug but after talking to ppl who have experienced it I decided its gimmiky and probably just marketing hype. I would pick up the 2410 it seems to have fixed the issues that nagged previous dell 24 U models. Its got good response times for gaming and pretty colors so I would say go for you wont be dissapointed.

[Frag Maniac]

Concerning ANY motion processing be it frame insertion or pixel tweaking you'll find it's a matter of personal preference and the level of tech used. I disagree with Zan that merely being hooked up to a PC negates any motion processing. If it's a set that has decent motion processing it does make a difference in the areas I mentioned, sports broadcasts and action movies, and I DO use my PC to play my movies on.

What I find to be the case is many that aren't willing to pay for it, can't see the difference, or don't like the difference they're seeing are voicing their opinions in ways that can be misleading to others. BTW Zan, your 32" S1 has Game Mode, the 2010 Panny's under 42" do not. That is one reason I'm looking at the TC-L42U25. Do you use Game Mode when gaming on yours, and does it make a difference? I have been trying to find info on what Panny's Game Mode does, but have come up empty.

[GameGuru]

I think I'm going to pull the trigger on the Dell U2410. $450 isn't that bad and seems to have lots of great reviews.

[zanzabar]

Concerning ANY motion processing be it frame insertion or pixel tweaking you'll find it's a matter of personal preference and the level of tech used. I disagree with Zan that merely being hooked up to a PC negates any motion processing. If it's a set that has decent motion processing it does make a difference in the areas I mentioned, sports broadcasts and action movies, and I DO use my PC to play my movies on.

What I find to be the case is many that aren't willing to pay for it, can't see the difference, or don't like the difference they're seeing are voicing their opinions in ways that can be misleading to others. BTW Zan, your 32" S1 has Game Mode, the 2010 Panny's under 42" do not. That is one reason I'm looking at the TC-L42U25. Do you use Game Mode when gaming on yours, and does it make a difference? I have been trying to find info on what Panny's Game Mode does, but have come up empty.

game mode is just a preset that has motion focus and all the others turned off, since panasonic lets u set a profile per rez and port i just made my own but with proper brightness and such.

[Frag Maniac]

I've done some more research and found some interesting info that will no doubt make my decision weigh more on input lag than any processing features. It appears that what some were speculating about the 2010 Panny's being higher in input lag than the 2009s is true. What surprised me though is finding that in 2010 32" models, LG had the lowest input lag.

Source (post #2034): http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1131464&page=68

I found this interesting since I had just recently heard some imply the LGs were pretty high in lag. In the above test he compared the TC-L32U22 to the LG 32LD450 and the Panny had 2-3 frames of lag while the LG had only 1-2 frames. This prompted me to head over to my local Best Buy and check out the LG 32LD450. There were 3 HD channels they had that I tested it with, two nature channels and one entertainment channel. At first it seemed hard to set it up well for all 3 channels. I'd get the saturation, brightness & contrast tuned for the E channel, but it would look washed out on the nature channels. Then I used the Vivid preset vs Custom and fine tuned it by toning down the brightness, contrast, sharpness and cranked up the warmth a bit. Then it looked very good on all 3 channels.

It also held it's own even against Panny's TC-L42U25 for resisting judder in panning landscape shots. It's still there of course, but minimal. It was funny because one of the sales guys had just tried to convince me "120Hz" motion processing smooths out such quirks, to my insisting it's only designed to minimize blur of moving objects onscreen, not panning judder. He was pointing to the TC-L42U25 while BBC Earth was at the part with mountain scape panning, saying how it showed judder. I then said, but that set DOES have "120Hz" tech. He then insisted it must not be turned on. I went and checked while he looked for a remote for the TC-L42U25 and the Motion Picture Pro 4 was not only on, it was set to strong.

On the 32" LG that has no motion processing though I was hard pressed to notice any motion blur even when the non nature channel showed football highlights. I also came to the conclusion that 42" is too large for my situation and I think I'll stick with 32", as I'd originally planned. Overall the LG 32LD450 is the best current set I've found for my needs. It has a great menu, minimal but helpful calibration features, fast 4ms response, excellent tuner, is priced well, and looks good once tuned right. The only slight negative is it looses a bit of it's black level when off angle, but I don't tend to view off angle.

I noticed however that this set's Black Level is set to Auto, and it's greyed out, meaning it probably has to be adjusted via the service menu. I wonder if taking it off Auto would help off angle black levels. Whenever I see anything that's basically a filter set to Auto, it makes me think more latency and less color quality. One would assume the reason they set Black Level to Auto at the factory is to account for changing and/or less than desirable ambient lighting. I suppose it's possible though that LG's Auto Black Level detects scenes in movies that are overly dark and tones it down a bit to show gradients.

[GameGuru]

I've done some more research and found some interesting info that will no doubt make my decision weigh more on input lag than any processing features. It appears that what some were speculating about the 2010 Panny's being higher in input lag than the 2009s is true. What surprised me though is finding that in 2010 32" models, LG had the lowest input lag.

Source (post #2034): http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1131464&page=68

I found this interesting since I had just recently heard some imply the LGs were pretty high in lag. In the above test he compared the TC-L32U22 to the LG 32LD450 and the Panny had 2-3 frames of lag while the LG had only 1-2 frames. This prompted me to head over to my local Best Buy and check out the LG 32LD450. There were 3 HD channels they had that I tested it with, two nature channels and one entertainment channel. At first it seemed hard to set it up well for all 3 channels. I'd get the saturation, brightness & contrast tuned for the E channel, but it would look washed out on the nature channels. Then I used the Vivid preset vs Custom and fine tuned it by toning down the brightness, contrast, sharpness and cranked up the warmth a bit. Then it looked very good on all 3 channels.

It also held it's own even against Panny's TC-L42U25 for resisting judder in panning landscape shots. It's still there of course, but minimal. It was funny because one of the sales guys had just tried to convince me "120Hz" motion processing smooths out such quirks, to my insisting it's only designed to minimize blur of moving objects onscreen, not panning judder. He was pointing to the TC-L42U25 while BBC Earth was at the part with mountain scape panning, saying how it showed judder. I then said, but that set DOES have "120Hz" tech. He then insisted it must not be turned on. I went and checked while he looked for a remote for the TC-L42U25 and the Motion Picture Pro 4 was not only on, it was set to strong.

On the 32" LG that has no motion processing though I was hard pressed to notice any motion blur even when the non nature channel showed football highlights. I also came to the conclusion that 42" is too large for my situation and I think I'll stick with 32", as I'd originally planned. Overall the LG 32LD450 is the best current set I've found for my needs. It has a great menu, minimal but helpful calibration features, fast 4ms response, excellent tuner, is priced well, and looks good once tuned right. The only slight negative is it looses a bit of it's black level when off angle, but I don't tend to view off angle.

I noticed however that this set's Black Level is set to Auto, and it's greyed out, meaning it probably has to be adjusted via the service menu. I wonder if taking it off Auto would help off angle black levels. Whenever I see anything that's basically a filter set to Auto, it makes me think more latency and less color quality. One would assume the reason they set Black Level to Auto at the factory is to account for changing and/or less than desirable ambient lighting. I suppose it's possible though that LG's Auto Black Level detects scenes in movies that are overly dark and tones it down a bit to show gradients.

Hey Frag, I was wondering if you ever ended up grabbing the LG 32LD450? I read the thread over at AVS and have to say I was a little intrigued. I was hoping to hear from someone who has one.