Change from Auzentech forte

[Rumpus01]

I've had a forte for over a year now and i'm not totally satisfied. I've been listening to a lot of flac music files lately and less gaming. I use a 5.1 logitech surround speakers, but i plan on upgrading to something extreme in the future with an amp and receiver.
But what i'm looking for is outstanding music quality mainly, lots of gaming too, but i'd sacrifice game quality for music quality anyday.
I listen to mostly mp3s but as many flacs as possible.

My main gripe with the forte is the drivers. I don't care what you say, there are no stable drivers for this card at least on my system.

I was thinking an HT omega card of sorts, possibly the Omega Claro. I'm not sure what the differences are for the claro and the claro plus though.
I've heard good things about the asus Xonar essence ST as well.

I don't want anything with an x-fi chip.
No creative cards or auzentech. I want to branch out plus get away from those drivers. I've probably had more trouble with the drivers for the forte than my old fatality and xtreme music.

So what should I get for best audio quality? I will be listening to music with some audio technica ad 7 or 900s in the future, so i think a built in headphone amp is a good idea.

I read that some Asus cards such as the Xonar D2 and Xonar D2X both use the AV200 chipset, which is the asus version of the C-Media CMI8788 chipset, so how are those two Xonars? I would ask about the Xonar Essence XT, but it uses the AV100 chipset, so I would imagine the AV200 is newer and improved.

[Erklat]

Xonar rocks :up:

I watch movies mainly, gaming in the middle and least of all I listen to music. But after Asus released firmwire update for
PLX bridge chip (Xonar is not native PCIe, it uses bridge chip this meaning onboard communication is within PCI standard),
all quirks I had with channel swap went away, and card works like a clock.

But if you plan on adding receiver, I'd suggest spending that amount of money on it instead on a sound card, since cards DACs are
going to get bypassed anyway and onboard should do fair job if connected digitally to the receiver?

[Rumpus01]

Well for now I want the best quality for music while still having great game quality to be used with 5.1 logitech set. I will get those audio technica headphones before i get new speakers anyway.

[Erklat]

Many have sworn that CMSS 3D is the best thing you could ever wish for. I on the other hand choose to prefer Dolby's tech because they are
more oriented to the quality and less to the sound positioning.

Please allow me to share some of the links I found very useful when opting between Xonar and X-fi based cards. Prelude was no1 for me then, but it
boils down to the same in comparison with Forte.

http://techreport.com/articles.x/13874/1
http://techreport.com/articles.x/11759/22
http://techreport.com/articles.x/8884
http://www.elitebastards.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=613&Itemid=27&limit=1&limitstart=5
http://www.guru3d.com/article/asus-xonar-d2x-review/
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/394289/dolby-headphone-vs-cmss-3d-for-gaming-other-questions

[Rumpus01]

I've never used CMS 3D on any of my cards because I don't think it sounds good at all, so that's not an issue. So far the Asus Xonar Essence ST is looking like the winner.

[Panther_Seraphi]

Xonar HDAV 1.3 is what you want

HDMI passthrough for 7.1 DTS-HD at max sound resoloution

Using the onboard amps to drive a reciever is a waste of time

the comparison of using optical and normal phono on my denon s101 is night and day

[Rumpus01]

That card has some terrible reviews on newegg and what is the purpose of HDMI... how would I connect that to my speakers without getting excessive cables and is the audio quality even still top notch at that point.

[Mescalamba]

You like music? Auzentech Bravura then.. or maybe HTHD, but if its just for regular repro or headphones, I would go with Bravura. Every OPAMP upgradable. Works fine with WASAPI. And you have very decent built-in headphone AMP. :) Upgradable ofc.

If you for some reason want HDMI output, then HTHD from Auzentech.

Bravura is better than Forte, but Forte was never designed as "whole" soundcard, but as low-profile one for HTPCs. Which worked fine, just sound lacked a bit..

If you want to use Logitech 5.1 and Audio Technica headphones, its perfect choice..

[Rumpus01]

The Bravura uses the X-fi chipset with creative drivers, which is exactly what i don't want.

[Donnie27]

The Bravura uses the X-fi chipset with creative drivers, which is exactly what i don't want.

I like the X-Fi but if you're having problems go with the Asus stuff:up:

Where I would disagree with you though is by all means get away from those computer multimedia speakers. You are cheating yourself and not even using your current card to half of its full potential. I know sound affects each of us differently but those things suck! You don't need to spend an arm and a leg for great sounding Audio equipment. That's where the folks at HeadFi, AVS and etc.... are Full of S#it!

CMSS3D is for Games with Headphones. Dolby sounds good but sucks for positional audio. Dolby Headphone is no better than Pro Logic:rolleyes: Comparing Dolby Headphone to CMSS3D is like comparing Pro Logic to DTS. But that means nothing if you're having problems with the X-Fi drivers. More of my friends with Overclocked systems often (about a too high 40%) having X-Fi driver problems.

[Hell Hound]

Well I love cmss3d and believe donnie27 when he say speakers should be the most expensive part of the system.Philips or Bose for pc speakers or m-audio w/adapter.Sound card and receiver if somewhat accurate reproducers can be tuned but not crappy speakers.For music anything c-media based is good,receiver needs to have a lot of tweaking option,so you can tune for genre.

:up::up::up:

[Jokester_wild]

Well I love cmss3d and believe donnie27 when he say speakers should be the most expensive part of the system.Philips or Bose for pc speakers or m-audio w/adapter.Sound card and receiver if somewhat accurate reproducers can be tuned but not crappy speakers.For music anything c-media based is good,receiver needs to have a lot of tweaking option,so you can tune for genre.

:up::up::up:

lol bose... dont even get me started :down:


Im wondering what problems the OP ran into with driver instability ?

I have the same card on windows 7 64 Ultimate with the most recent drivers, and everything is great. Only problem I ran into was the audio noise I got when I first installed it. Which was easily fixed with electrical tape.

[Donnie27]

Old school bose stuff or something like the Wooden 301 and 501 might not please folks in a night club but they can do a nice Job on a Mid to smaller room. Yes, newer over price stuff doesn't cut it IMHO!



Well I love cmss3d and believe donnie27 when he say speakers should be the most expensive part of the system.Philips or Bose for pc speakers or m-audio w/adapter.Sound card and receiver if somewhat accurate reproducers can be tuned but not crappy speakers.For music anything c-media based is good,receiver needs to have a lot of tweaking option,so you can tune for genre.

:up::up::up:

QFT!

@Rumpus01 get out and try to hear/audition some of this stuff and take a CD of your favorite music with ya. Use your ear because your ear, not any one else's including mine, can truly answer your questions. What one of the posters here could never get past was that his ear and mostly opinion only mattered to him.

There are exceptions. Computer speakers that aren't Bowers and Wilkins or etc.. don't cover enough of the Frequency Range so some sounds are either or not heard and or not reproduced at the proper level/s. I'd go old school and hit up EBay if I were you. Not only will those old school Marantz, Pioneer, Sansui, Kenwood, JVC, Harmon Kardon and you name it, kills most of today's receivers with Full Range speakers, it completely does away with the need for Headphone Amps. In fact, Ole School Receivers make many of the Can or Mini Headphone amps sound like Toys LOL!

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Marantz-2235B-Receiver-Sounds-Great-/320593739069?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4aa4e03d3d

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-MARANTZ-IMPERIAL-7-SPEAKERS-/200522414087?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2eb0113807

I should describe it by saying a percentage of folks, like 87% will like it and of that 87% about 60% will love it. Go to pawn-shops/brokers and hear the old stuff first! I'm in the 60% LOL!

[Mescalamba]

The Bravura uses the X-fi chipset with creative drivers, which is exactly what i don't want.

Its Auzentech modified drivers, as in Forte. Running x64 Win 7 Ultimate, zero problems, unless you try to play music at 44KHz. Though, I dont see reason to do so, if soundcard allows you to use 192/24. :D

Gaming, zero problems, perfect sound with headphones.

So far, no problems and really good sound. Xonar has great sound, if you dont mind that "tin can" ish.. Though, it wouldnt be bad for techno and electronic stuff.

I agree with previous saying that you need bit better speakers. I tried 2.0 studio reference speakers.. Bravura is enough to feed them with decent quality, so I guess no matter how much you spend on speakers, Bravura is able to feed them..

[Rumpus01]

I think my card might be messed up or i need to put electrical tape somewhere because after a few hours of use, it starts to crackle up any noises really badly where you can barely recognize the sound. A reboot always fixes it, but it is really annoying. This happens regardless of the drivers. In the most recent drivers i installed, there is no extra options of any kind and i did a full installation. The volume panel and everything is gone and i don't want to have to change modes for what i'm doing. But it sounds like I should hold on to my forte for now and take a better look at speakers. For a smaller sized room, what would you recommend and should I get a receiver or not?

[Hell Hound]

Clean reg,you need a amp if not using a receiver.Speaker choice can only be done by you,do you want floor standing,bookshelf ,style ,color etc,etc.:eek:

[Rumpus01]

I clean the reg and run driver sweeper in safe mode after i uninstall drivers. As for speakers, i recently saw these posted in another forum (http://tweakcityaudio.com/) and they are a good price. They come in a package with something called the Gizmo from that website as well for a dubbed down price, but that excludes a subwoofer. The Gizmo has a plug for a sub, but if i wanted to add more speakers in the future I don't know if this Gizmo will do the trick since it seems more 2.1 specialized.

In terms of a complete set, these look pretty good as well.
http://www.amazon.com/Cerwin-Vega-AVS-632-5-1-channel-theater/dp/B00007BGP8/ref=sr_1_28?s=STORE&ie=UTF8&qid=1285271203&sr=8-28
Geared toward home theater more than pc speakers. These are a good price and it seems like a more legit system to buy as a whole compared to pc speakers as you guys were saying.

Do you think the subwoofer included in my logitech set is also poor quality or just the speakers? Meaning should I bother buying a new sub right now if i get some good speakers?

[Hell Hound]

These are $199 @ amazon


http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41ebKAve1AL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

Buy this for $129

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31AKUcSTAgL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

and two of these for $112 each.


http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31bPBQDfHuL._SL500_AA300_.jpg


plus this for $299


http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41EFC362TJL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

These are the kind of speakers you use with the forte in a HTPC.:up:

[Rumpus01]

I've been itching to get some Cerwin Vega speakers for a while now but to run them with the forte, I will need a receiver correct? As of now, I am looking to get a receiver and two left and right channel speakers to start with because that's all i can afford. Subwoofer will come later as well as center channel and rear speakers, so a receiver that can support all that is necessary. I don't know much about receivers, so what brand would you guys recommend at an affordable price? I've heard good things about Onkyo receivers.

[Hell Hound]

http://cdn.overstock.com/images/products/P12627201.jpg



# Manufacturer: Pyle Audio, Inc
# Manufacturer Part Number: PT8000CH
# Manufacturer Website Address: www.pyleaudio.com
# Product Model: PT8000CH
# Product Name: PT8000CH Stereo/Mono Amplifier
# Product Type: Amplifier
# Video System: Not Applicable
# Channels: 8
# Output Power: 8 x 1 kW RMS, 1 kW RMS
# Sound System: Not Applicable
# Dimensions: 7.10" Height x 19" Width x 19.30" Depth
# Weight (Approximate): 48.50 lb




ONLY $299 :up:
Its not a receiver just AMP

[Rumpus01]

So basically i shouldn't bother with a receiver since i'm looking for straight audio quality from my PC and not a multi-media system?

[Jokester_wild]

http://cdn.overstock.com/images/products/P12627201.jpg



# Manufacturer: Pyle Audio, Inc
# Manufacturer Part Number: PT8000CH
# Manufacturer Website Address: www.pyleaudio.com
# Product Model: PT8000CH
# Product Name: PT8000CH Stereo/Mono Amplifier
# Product Type: Amplifier
# Video System: Not Applicable
# Channels: 8
# Output Power: 8 x 1 kW RMS, 1 kW RMS
# Sound System: Not Applicable
# Dimensions: 7.10" Height x 19" Width x 19.30" Depth
# Weight (Approximate): 48.50 lb




ONLY $299 :up:
Its not a receiver just AMP

Where you buying it for 299 ? thats a 560 dollar amp.

[Donnie27]

Where you buying it for 299 ? thats a 560 dollar amp.

http://www.amazon.com/PT8000CH-8000-Watt-Channel-Stereo-Amplifier/dp/B002UL0XIQ

PYLE PT8000CH Rack Mount 8000-Watt 8 Channel Stereo/Mono Amplifier
by Pyle
No customer reviews yet. Be the first.
Share
List Price: $617.99
Price: $273.28 & this item ships for FREE with Super Saver Shipping.
Ships from and sold by Amazon.com.
Only 2 left in stock--order soon (more on the way).

Ritz Camera has it for $267 and the average is about $299 so that's maybe why the poster posted that price. I can't give it a thumbs up or down, I've not heard it. Two folks who owns say it is nice for its price.

[Rumpus01]

My forte keeps fuzzing out though, so those speakers would be great to get if i can figure my forte issues first. It does it with all drivers. I have a GTX 285 which i've heard can have interference so how would I check that or fix it? I've also heard people putting electrical tape somewhere and wonder what that's about.

[Donnie27]

My forte keeps fuzzing out though, so those speakers would be great to get if i can figure my forte issues first. It does it with all drivers. I have a GTX 285 which i've heard can have interference so how would I check that or fix it? I've also heard people putting electrical tape somewhere and wonder what that's about.

I wish I could help you but since I've never experienced that kind of a Problem, I can't. My best guess is that that sounds like it might be a PCI-E issue. It could be a random BIOS setting not correct or etc..... But again, I don't know.

[Bobsama]

http://cdn.overstock.com/images/products/P12627201.jpg



# Manufacturer: Pyle Audio, Inc
# Manufacturer Part Number: PT8000CH
# Manufacturer Website Address: www.pyleaudio.com
# Product Model: PT8000CH
# Product Name: PT8000CH Stereo/Mono Amplifier
# Product Type: Amplifier
# Video System: Not Applicable
# Channels: 8
# Output Power: 8 x 1 kW RMS, 1 kW RMS
# Sound System: Not Applicable
# Dimensions: 7.10" Height x 19" Width x 19.30" Depth
# Weight (Approximate): 48.50 lb




ONLY $299 :up:
Its not a receiver just AMP

You'll need a preamp to go along with that. A decent-quality 5+ch pre would run a pretty penny. I personally would never buy Pyle or store-brands, since you never know what you're really getting. With smaller speakers, a $300-500 AVR should work fine (in general, Pioneer > Onkyo > Yamaha > Sony > Samsung).

Two things, though: home theaters aren't for music and home theater equipment isn't for music, either. Even so, both will massacre computer speakers.

If you're looking for just music on the cheaper side (especially in smaller rooms), a pair of powered monitors (perhaps http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836127004), a subwoofer, and an SPL meter (to calibrate the subwoofer).


My personal favorite setup would be an 80's or very early 90's pre & amp, a pair of full-range loudspeakers, and decent headphones. I've got a little Sherwood AI-1110 (2x40W@8ohm or so), a pair of Polk Monitor 5 (Series 2), and Sennheiser HD-555's. The Senn's need to be upgraded and I'm eying a Little Dot DAC_II (which also has a little headphone amp).

[Donnie27]

You'll need a preamp to go along with that. A decent-quality 5+ch pre would run a pretty penny. I personally would never buy Pyle or store-brands, since you never know what you're really getting. With smaller speakers, a $300-500 AVR should work fine (in general, Pioneer > Onkyo > Yamaha > Sony > Samsung).

Two things, though: home theaters aren't for music and home theater equipment isn't for music, either. Even so, both will massacre computer speakers.

If you're looking for just music on the cheaper side (especially in smaller rooms), a pair of powered monitors (perhaps http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836127004), a subwoofer, and an SPL meter (to calibrate the subwoofer).

My personal favorite setup would be an 80's or very early 90's pre & amp, a pair of full-range loudspeakers, and decent headphones. I've got a little Sherwood AI-1110 (2x40W@8ohm or so), a pair of Polk Monitor 5 (Series 2), and Sennheiser HD-555's. The Senn's need to be upgraded and I'm eying a Little Dot DAC_II (which also has a little headphone amp).

I don't think you need a Pre-Amp with that unless you're using one of the digital Formats. You can do Direct Analog Connect to it. Pyle has been hit and miss for me with too many misses.

As for Sennheisser, I'd say 595's or better anything less is easy to find better for my ears. I'd take DT-770's over anything Sennheisser short of the HD600's.

[lowfat]

Xonar HDAV 1.3 is what you want

HDMI passthrough for 7.1 DTS-HD at max sound resoloution

Using the onboard amps to drive a reciever is a waste of time

the comparison of using optical and normal phono on my denon s101 is night and day
The HDAV1.3 is a horrible card to purchase these days. Back when bistreaming wasn't available on soundcards it was an ok purchase. If you are using HDMI it offers NOTHING over a videocard like a GTX460.


You like music? Auzentech Bravura then.. or maybe HTHD, but if its just for regular repro or headphones, I would go with Bravura. Every OPAMP upgradable. Works fine with WASAPI. And you have very decent built-in headphone AMP. :) Upgradable ofc.

If you for some reason want HDMI output, then HTHD from Auzentech.

Bravura is better than Forte, but Forte was never designed as "whole" soundcard, but as low-profile one for HTPCs. Which worked fine, just sound lacked a bit..

If you want to use Logitech 5.1 and Audio Technica headphones, its perfect choice..
The Bravura is not a better card than the Forte. Besides the replaceable opamps it is nearly identical in hardware, except for the much cheaper audio processor. Changing opamps does not increase sound quality. It just changes the colouring of the sound.

And like I said in the other thread the HTHD is another bad choice.

[Mescalamba]

Yea yea, sure. Its not better than Forte, it just sounds better. :)

And HTHD ofc isnt good choice either, cause it sounds great.. :)

[lowfat]

Yea yea, sure. Its not better than Forte, it just sounds better. :)

And HTHD ofc isnt good choice either, cause it sounds great.. :)

I'd like to know how it sounds better when it uses the exact same DAC's and a significantly more poor sound processor.

The HTHD is even more poor. Its front DAC's are more poor than both the Bravura and the Forte. It has no market anymore. It would have been a great card if it didn't take 2 years to reach the market. After videocards could already bitstream, and with less hassle at that.

[Mescalamba]

To put it simple. I owned Forte, I own Bravura. I know what sounds better and what doesnt. Cause I have ears and heard them. Also had Xonar ST. If someone like sound-like-tin-can, go ahead and buy it. I dont.

I really dont care what specs said, cause its pretty much as dSLR market, what does matter is output, not paper specs. And thats better on Bravura, end of story.

On HTHD I can just use reviews and specs, so not sure if its good or bad, but if it works and sound same or better than Bravura, it must be great soundcard.

HDMI output from graphic cards is if my memory servers well, handled by Realtek, which can be famous only for creating "chips for almost everything, that fails at everything". Sound from Realtek sux, always.

[lowfat]

To put it simple. I owned Forte, I own Bravura. I know what sounds better and what doesnt. Cause I have ears and heard them. Also had Xonar ST. If someone like sound-like-tin-can, go ahead and buy it. I dont.

I really dont care what specs said, cause its pretty much as dSLR market, what does matter is output, not paper specs. And thats better on Bravura, end of story.

On HTHD I can just use reviews and specs, so not sure if its good or bad, but if it works and sound same or better than Bravura, it must be great soundcard.

HDMI output from graphic cards is if my memory servers well, handled by Realtek, which can be famous only for creating "chips for almost everything, that fails at everything". Sound from Realtek sux, always.

Digital audio is bit perfect no matter on the source. So the HDMI audio on a GTX460 will sound exactly the same as HDMI audio on the HTHD.

And there is no way I would ever choose a Bravura over a Xonar ST. If you do not care about EAX it is the best headphone card available by a long shot.

[Bobsama]

I don't think you need a Pre-Amp with that unless you're using one of the digital Formats. You can do Direct Analog Connect to it. Pyle has been hit and miss for me with too many misses.

As for Sennheisser, I'd say 595's or better anything less is easy to find better for my ears. I'd take DT-770's over anything Sennheisser short of the HD600's.

You almost always need a preamp or other processor. If you don't have one or use one, you're very liable to start blowing :banana::banana::banana::banana: up. That Pyle is heavily overrated (which is why I said to look into AVR's).

[Rumpus01]

Alright well I would like to keep the forte, but it just keeps having issues. For example, occasionally during games all sound will stop and there will be a terrible high pitched continuous wining noise until i restart the computer. It also fuzzes out to practically indistinguishable noises and sometimes just fuzzes out minor amounts at a time and then goes away. Typically i have to restart the machine to fix this. Perhaps I should RMA the card and see if that's a fix?

[Mescalamba]

RMA is adviced, but it can be just interference from something in your PC.. :( Which means, even RMAed it would do same.. Though, its worth trying.

[Donnie27]

You almost always need a preamp or other processor. If you don't have one or use one, you're very liable to start blowing :banana::banana::banana::banana: up. That Pyle is heavily overrated (which is why I said to look into AVR's).

Up stairs in my computer room:].X-Fi Platinum and Audigy 2ZS
I use both a Pre-amp and AMP. First I use the Pre-AMP section decoupled from is AMP on my Harmon Kardon 247 and connected it straight to the Older Harmon Kardon 730. The older AMP had more punch that the newer stuff. Once you go old school the newer stuff that doesn't cost a at least 1K doesn't cut it anymore. I also use a Digital connection to compare Certain movies and games. Digital is limited to DTS and DDL, analog kills both formats on my system. The Receivers down support the latest HDMI so nothing is connected to my GTX-460.

Downstairs in my Den;X-Fi Prelude .
Analog Direct and Digital connection. Here I get to compare the Computers' (two computer connected to these receivers) Digital and Analog as compare to a LG 370 Blue Ray Player. I'm using PowerDVD 10 for Blue Ray software on the computer and can test HDMI from my GT-240. With only a Pioneer 819 and JVC Old School class H amp monster and wayyyyy over the top speakers, I can hear everything and too many folks have underestimated my rigs! I used Rightmark to make sure there wasn't any down sampling. No Lip-Syncing issues as well.

When either of these are ran Analog Direct neither has any problem shaking the rooms they're set up in. Considering Creative based cards aren't the loudest out there makes that even better (no Pre Amp). Most amps have High and Low Gain controls and I've never had to use any High Gain setting.

I have zero problems with Amps with no Pre-Amp. I know someone with a Similar Pyle AMP but it is a strictly stereo version. It doesn't sound bad at all. I saw and heard of others just up and dying for seemingly no reason. That's why I said hit and miss. Pyle didn't sound bad but they like most other companies lie about their real power (wattage) and aren't the most reliable out there.