Need help with component Selection

[mikel310]

I Am Ready to Water Cool my system and could use some help to getting the right combination of components to get for the best performance, or at least some direction of the best performance on a individual component basis

I have done some research, into the area and have a pretty good idea of what I am getting into but have found that most of the data is 1 to 2 years out of date and do not show the recent improvements in CPU/GPU blocks, Radiator or what would be the best pump to use with the new hardware available.

So My question is Which is currently the Best

Radiator 120x3
I plan to mount it @ the top of the case. (Also does it help System performance to run a 120x3 & a 120x1 in the same loop providing you have the right pump to keep the head pressure up??

CPU/GPU Blocks

Pump
(Would prefer DC, but can go A/C if necessary) Also, since it runs pretty much 24/7 I would like to also add a 2nd pump on a relay switch as a backup in case of primary pump failure

Tubing size
(I have 2 ft from the bottom to the top case, so I estimate about 6/8 ft of tubing. (From my understanding, 3/8" id x 1/2" od tubing using push fittings is best??)

Reservoir
(I would like to use a reservoir instead of a T-line so I can add a temp probe.) (I am also confused as to best mounting location IE, Res mounted directly to pump @ bottom of case or a Res in a 5.25 bay or external @ or near the top of the case.

Coolant
(At current I plan to use just distilled water with Spectrus as a biocide & Continuum as a corrosion inhibitor Unless there is something better available.

Fans
I already have 6 San Ace fans 120x120X38 0.3A (9G1212H1011) Available

Any Help would be greatly appreciated :shrug:

Mike

My Current Build is Air Cooled
Case= Cooler Master Cosmos-S
MB =ASUS P6X58D Premium
CPU= Intel i7-975 Extreme @ 3.33GHz
Video= (2 each) NVIDIA GeForce GTX 285, 2GB in SLI
Memory= 12 GB OCZ Platinum Tri Channel PC10666 DDR3/1333MHz

[shazza]

Have you checked out some of the sites shown in the guide/info sticky at the top of this section: info sticky here (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=202394)? Admittedly, there is some older info in there, but you will find current info on radiators and CPU blocks and more, at skinnneelabs, for one. Conundrum also has a good guide on another site - hopefully he'll pop in and link it, or you can do a search.

The other thing is to look at other's worklogs and the threads in here to see which products seem to be the most popular. There really is no "best" radiator, CPU block, etc. There are too many variables - are you looking for good performance at a good price? Over the top performance at an over the top price?

A few questions - are you planning on using the current hardware you have now in your water cooling build, including the case? It all looks good, just that it will help people to confirm that before they give you advice. Are you planning to water cool the GPUs as well?

I'm not going to recommend specific products at this point - I think you'll end up with a better system if you pick out the specific products you want and post those back - you'll find people are much more willing to give you feedback on a list you've made.

As for which CPU / GPU block - check out skinneelabs site for reviews. You can also find them here, as posted by skinnee and Vapor.

Tubing size - very few people would recommend 3/8 x 1/2 inch tubing. The walls are on the thin side - more prone to kinks. Much better off going with 3/8" x 5/8." I'd suggest you get at least 8-10 ft of tubing. It's not the expensive part of your build, and you may find you'll need to recut pieces as you get the best loop layout.

Fittings - By push fittings, I assume you mean compression fittings. It's really personal preference. Barb fittings are cheaper and many people think they look better. Compression fittings add a lot to the cost of the build. I prefer compression fittings because I find them easier to work with - but that's just my opinion. I think barbs can look better. Just depends on what's important to you.

Reservoirs - there are a zillion ways to mount a res. Check out some of the Cosmo worklogs in the worklog section - you'll see some cool ways to do it. Generally pumps are placed at/near the bottom - but many people use pumps in higher locations.

Coolant - Distilled water and a biocide is best - know nothing about Spectrus, but if it's a simple biocide it should be fine. No need for a corrosion inhibitor as long as you don't mix metals - which you shouldn't have an issue with using the more popular products on the market.

Fans / Radiator - with those fans, you can use a number of different radiators ( eg. Black Ice GTX). BUT - if you're using the Cosmos-S case, you may need to rethink using the 38mm fans. You might be pressed for space and will be better off using 25mm fans and a thinner radiator (e.g. Swiftech). I don't know this for sure - again, check out some of the Cosmos builds.

Generally more radiator is better - you'll be pushing it with only a triple radiator and your CPU and 2 GPUs - adding a single would help (but you can do it with just a triple if you optimize your radiator and fan selection)

You've made a good start on your research - a bit more work and some advice from the folks here and you should be good to go.

[Conumdrum]

Here you go, read each link and fav them, take notes, you'll be able to answer most of your questions. Give it a few days of good reading, maybe more. No rush right?

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6489396&postcount=3

[mikel310]

Thanks to the both of you for the quick feedback. I do not mind doing research, knowledge is power, and if the answer is just handed to you you usually don't any additional wisdom.

To answer your question Shazza
1. I am planing on using current hardware including my current case
2. If necessary I am not afriad to do a little modding to the case if necessary.
3. I do plan on the GPU Blocks as well.
4. Yes I do mean compression fittings. The reason I am leaning that way is because they seem to add less restriction. The barb seems like it has a smaller ID which would reduce flow/head pressure (But I could be wrong)
5. Spectrus is a biocide Normally used in fish tanks.
6. I am looking for performance over both price or the Bling factor. The main reason I am trying to get feed back so I don't throw money away. I don't mind paying a higher price so long as you get what you are paying for. As far as looks or price goes, they are both important to me, but not if they are going to cause a performance hit.
7. As far as using the Continuum for corrosion inhibitor One of the articles I ran across indicated that even if you don't have galvanic corrosion, you could still get some corrosion problems from just using water if the Ph Balance drops below 7 or rises above 9. Also even if you are using all cooper blocks, you could still get some galvanic corrosion from the use of brass fittings and from the lead in the solder from the radiator.

I do have a couple of questions. As far as the GPU blocks go, I have one article I saw stated that the use of full coverage blocks are not as efficient as using a block which covers just the GPU and using heat sinks for the memory because of the added flow restriction. Is this correct??? (I hope not, I like the looks of the full coverage blocks)

As far as the 2 Rad, I had planned on running the system as follows Pump - 120x3 rad - CPU - 120x1 rad - GPU -Res- Pump The reason I have the 120x1 in the middle is to hopefully bleed some of the heat off from the CPU before hitting the Video cards.

Ounce again, shazza, Conumdrum thanks for your help and pointing me in the right direction. & Conumdrum you are right, rushing into something to fast without preparation usually causes an adverse outcome

Mike

[mikel310]

Oh yeah, I forgot the other question I had. I notice that some of the CPU blocks are now coming with a silver base. Would the use of silver & copper not cause galvanic corrosion if used in the same system?? I know that Silver has 2nd the best Thermal conductivity with Diamonds being first & copper being third. BTW, is there any Diamond cpu/gpu blocks available ??? LOL

[Conumdrum]

It's in the sticky links I provided, just have a long read for a few days.

FC blocks is the way to go.

You'll read a thousand times in your research that placement of the rads in the loop makes little diff.

No, it's talked about here and other forums, silver/copper/brass/nockle is fine together.

Your questions will be answered, cya in a few days. No rush.

[mikel310]

Still researching. There is just so much info out there, it really can become overwhelming. Every time you start down one avenue for info, you find a couple of dozen or more branches you strill have to look at.

Since this will be my first venture into water cooling, I have decided to keep a log of my progress. Maybe it will help other first time builder. I will post pre pics & temps as well as post pics & temps. If I have time I will also post any build info as I go alone, especially if I make any mods.

This build will be aimed at performance, so it will not have a lot of bling. I might add some lights down the road, but that will be it.

So far I have found out the following.

The following Rads will fit in a Cosmo S case with out any Mods needed to the case. This list may not be complete, but if the rad you choose has 15mm fan spacing, you may have a chance.
Compatible:
HWLabs BlackIce GT Stealth III
HWLabs BlackIce GT Xtreme III
HWLabs BlackIce Pro III
HWLabs BlackIce GT
Watercool HTSF 360
XSPC RS360
XSPC R120-T
Aquacomputer Airplex Evo
Aquacomputer Airplex Pro
Alphacool NexXxoS Pro III
Magicool Aluminium 360
Magicool Xtreme 360 Radiator
Magicool Slim 360 Radiator

Not Compatible: But modding is a very good possibility.
Thermochill PA120.3
Swiftech MCR320 QP 360

That it for now, more as I learn. I am hoping to be done with the research by the end of next week and have a ready to buy list

Does any body know the Rad dimensions of the Thermochill PA120.3 and the Swiftech MCR320 QP 360.

Mike

[asura]

SketchUP (http://sketchup.google.com/download/gsu.html) Thermochill PA120.3 (http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=8ad10a38626a6b5adc2cc88ffd9f209a&prevstart=0) Swiftech MCR320 QP (http://scc.jezmckean.com/item/351)

[mikel310]

Questions

Can some one explain the exact defination of the following & how they effect the loop (or send me a good link for the explanations

C/W

Delta T

Also, is the pressure drop for the system determined by the highest restrictive component, or is it accumulative across the system. (IE to keep it simple, CPU=4 VGA=3 Rad=2, would the Sys restriction be 4, 9, or the ave of all components 6.5)
The reason I am asking, is it high restriction on lets say the Cpu/vga blk to try to offset by getting a less restrictive Rad

[asura]

C/W I'm not sure. Looking at Skinnee's labs I'd guess, degrees C per Watt for a given rad and fan rpm? I'm not sure.

Delta T is an easy one, it's the differance (delta) in temperature (T) between the air temperature and the water temperature. i.e. WaterT-AirT=DeltaT

Preasure drop again I'm not sure (in fact I out right don't know) but thinking about it I'd asume it was based on the most restrictive component, then varied by a persentage of the restrictiveness of the other components in the loop. On this one I'd try experimenting with Martins' flow calculator (http://martin.skinneelabs.com/MartinsFlowRateEstimator.html). It may not have the components that you want, but by playing arround with the settings you can get an idea of how component choice affects flow.

[Huww]

Does any body know the Rad dimensions of the Thermochill PA120.3 and the Swiftech MCR320 QP 360.


I've come to learn not every sketchup drawing is to exact scale, so here's the dimensions in case you were still wondering.

Theromchill: 129 x 405 x 60mm
Swiftech: 128 x 410 x 34mm

[Conumdrum]

Questions

Can some one explain the exact defination of the following & how they effect the loop (or send me a good link for the explanations

C/W

Delta T
DT, as explained in a link provided is basically the effiency of your loop. Low DT is good, not enough cooling means a high DT. It can be due to radiator sizing and fan choce usually. You want big overclocks, you want a LOW DT.
Also, is the pressure drop for the system determined by the highest restrictive component, or is it accumulative across the system. (IE to keep it simple, CPU=4 VGA=3 Rad=2, would the Sys restriction be 4, 9, or the ave of all components 6.5)

YES, it dds up. but the CPU block is the key. Then many 90 fittings, hose lenght, etc setc. It's balance. But it ain't roket science either.
The reason I am asking, is it high restriction on lets say the Cpu/vga blk to try to offset by getting a less restrictive Rad

Rads are LOW LOW LOW restriction in comparison to anything else. Don't use a rad restriction as a buffer for a too big loop with too nmuch stuff as a buffer. fail................