Genelec Speakers use in Home theator

[crackhead2k]

Has any one use Genelec Speakers in a Home Theator?

They are studio Speakers and can be installed in a wall or standing....
Doesn't seem to be much snake oil on these they have have integrated amps, and all I need to do is get an XLR on to them from a DAC.

I'm thinking of purchasing one, but I haven't seen them in person.

Any opinions would be greatly appreciated... :)

[MattiasNYC]

I work on Genelecs all the time. Which model is this?

It's hard to generalize and describe audio in non-technical terms (which is hard too sometimes). But in my opinion at least the older models of Genelecs sound a bit bright to my ears. They're not, in my opinion, "nice" sounding speakers. Fairly accurate and detailed, but not "nice".

Also, they're line level and not "consumer" level, so there may be a bit of a mis-match between a regular set of consumer speakers and these....

[crackhead2k]

I'm interested in their 3 way series under their professional monitoring...
Do you know Difference between their 2 way, 3 way and main monitors in person?

I'm thinking of throwing in UA2192 DAC and run XLR to speakers. The card from computer to run the DAC is lynx sound card from DB-25 to the UA...

How will they compare to Floor standing consumer level speakers?

How do their subs sound?
If there are more things I need to know tell me :)

[MattiasNYC]

Hmmmm.........

I work on the 2-ways, the older 1031a's. I've heard the 3-ways. I actually run a Lynx TWO-B card myself in my personal studio.

Anyways, it all seems a bit "too good" or "too pro" for a consumer system. Just a hunch I'm having. Another thing to consider is that you won't have level control or anything between your PC and your speakers. It's usually recommended to have something between to protect the speakers from sudden bursts of noise should the computer decide to suck one day. I know you're thinking of the UA, but if it receives 0dBFS from the computer it'll probably just send that straight out to the speakers I'm guessing.

Btw, the Lynx are quite good for the money in terms of sound quality, so you might not really need the UA actually. Not saying it's not better, just that there are many parameters some of which may make it not so valuable an investment (compared to other stuff you can buy).

The one thing that's good about Genelec though is that they do have systems meant to run with one of their integrated subs. And if memory serves me some of their subs do bass-management as well, which is an advantage for you (you'll need that some way or another in order to get "full range" from all 5 "full range" channels).

But there are other companies that make products as well that may be interesting to you if you're looking at pro-level systems. You could check out JBL or BlueSky for example. I think they both offer complete systems. JBL also have systems that include "room mode correction". I believe they come with a mic and software and you simply set up your system, use the mic, and the measurement is used to have the speakers correct for the problems the room has (at the position the mic was in).

Other brands that people like are Adam, Focal, Dynaudio.

What's your budget?... Seems like this is going to be expensive...

[MattiasNYC]

EDIT: Just realized that the UAD DAC is stereo. Are you looking to do surround or stereo only?...

[crackhead2k]

Have you compared Genelecs to the Dynaudio?

I am going to be putting the speakers in the living room and later would probably sound proof and sound treat.

Currently I am going to focus on quality stereo. and add for surround later.

I have only looked at canton 890dc which goes for 4800 pair demo and thinking of parasound mono blocks. for passive if no active.
living room is 20ish feet long and 15 wide?
One side has windows... the side which I want to put the speakers.....Sit back maybe 8-9 feet? everything behind that I want it to sound really good..Im not that great at positioning things...

Its my first time looking for pro monitors. The reason is I want accurate sound and bass that doesn't overwhelm the other frequencies.

Currently I'm running a crappy energy RC-70 with a yamaha receiver biamped. 95 watt/ch stereo setup in a small room. It sounds good but the cantons with a good amp sounds 30%+ better in all frequencies and reveals so much more detail and I wasn't listening that long.

I looked at some studio that have positions their speakers high too but at an angle. I don't know how that would effect the sound. But the reason I liked the idea is because I like a big projection for movies and speakers won't be behind the screen which bothers me.

I don't have an unlimited budget but it around 5-6k every time im going to upgrade I slowly pick things up and add to improve. have you compared the aurora converters to the UA/Prism sound?
I only seen them in different setups with dif speakers and I can't tell differences because speakers are different too =[
Consumer audio bugs me a lot because of snake oil etc so thats why I'm looking into pro-audio.

[MattiasNYC]

Real quick...


Have you compared Genelecs to the Dynaudio?

No, but I've heard some good stuff about them. My hunch is that the Gennies are better though.


Currently I am going to focus on quality stereo. and add for surround later.

Since your budget isn't unlimited I'd take a careful look at what the best upgrade path is. Make sure you don't end up getting an "incompatible" system where you need to swap components later which will be an unnecessary additional expense probably.


One side has windows... the side which I want to put the speakers.....Sit back maybe 8-9 feet? everything behind that I want it to sound really good..Im not that great at positioning things...

There are a couple of different standards for positioning speakers. The one in the studio world (music at least) is where every speaker sits "on a circle", with you in the middle. So every speaker is exactly the same distance away from you. I forget the angles but I can provide you with a document later if you want.

The other is where the front three speakers sit "along the wall", so that the center is closer to you and the L/R are furhter away. The surrounds then sit on the walls of the "rectangular room". So you get different distances between all sets of speakers. You just calibrate them to give the same SPL at the listening position to compensate for that.


Its my first time looking for pro monitors. The reason is I want accurate sound and bass that doesn't overwhelm the other frequencies.

Currently I'm running a crappy energy RC-70 with a yamaha receiver biamped. 95 watt/ch stereo setup in a small room. It sounds good but the cantons with a good amp sounds 30%+ better in all frequencies and reveals so much more detail and I wasn't listening that long.

I understand. I'll try to think of some sources for more info for you.


I looked at some studio that have positions their speakers high too but at an angle. I don't know how that would effect the sound. But the reason I liked the idea is because I like a big projection for movies and speakers won't be behind the screen which bothers me.

There's a good reason for doing this, but I think the "accurate" way of doing it is to have them fairly level with the audience. But yes, it's often a practical problem. Once again, if I can find a source I'll let you know...


I don't have an unlimited budget but it around 5-6k every time im going to upgrade I slowly pick things up and add to improve. have you compared the aurora converters to the UA/Prism sound?

Actually no. The thing about the Lynx is that it's a very good converter at a very good price. The UA is stereo only, so if you're thinking about an upgrade to 5.1 later you'll have to add two more units, probably getting expensive at that point. Prism is way more expensive and sounds better (talking about their expensive line). There are actually quite a few converters that could fit your bill giving you multiple outputs out of your computer. I'll give this some thought as well, just remind me.

But once again, carefully consider how you want to connect everything. Would you want to patch in an external player for example, and be able to run audio from it straight to your speaker setup without going through software?


Consumer audio bugs me a lot because of snake oil etc so thats why I'm looking into pro-audio.

Well, I think there are trade offs that are worth considering:

~ ease of use
~ flexibility
~ absolute price
~ quality / price ratio

etc.....

I'll get back to you...


PS. I'm not extremely knowledgeable on consumer speakers, so the only reason I'm responding on this topic is because I work on pro-audio systems daily. If anyone else has input on consumer stuff helpt him out!...

[EniGmA1987]

While Genelec's are nice, you can get much better speakers for Home Theater use for the same price

[MattiasNYC]

While Genelec's are nice, you can get much better speakers for Home Theater use for the same price

"better" is a "dangerous term".....

[crackhead2k]

woah...

Since I never worked in the studio before.....
I guess these speakers will have to be installed a certain way? Angles etc?

What is your experience with the prism converters?

It seems that DACs will be better then a typical receiver in every way which is why I want to run everything form the computer. Because I want to run dual-mono or mono amps. Or having studio monitors I can sorta put them in the wall and save room.
I don't know much about receivers with DACs as good as aurora UA or prism...I definitely won't be using receiver amps even in the high end it seems on floorstanding speakers with dedicated amps sound better. [at least the ones I've seen correct me if im wrong]
I may be forced to use a bluray player with a receiver if I do want to play right away.. but it will be nice if I can get it all on a computer. because....

Computer -> Lynx AES16E -> DAC -> [Maybe Preamp to control accidental raising of the volume] -> Amplifier -> Speaker

Receiver -> Amplifier->Speaker --------No Dac wtf... DAC Wasted :( Would want to use DAC To convert digital to analog

Plugging things in and out is going to be a pain if I want to watch bluray disk right away say If I rent from a store...
If you know of equipment that would work let me know :3

Oh and for what enigma just posted...
I would like to know which ones are better and what you compared....It seems you may used genelics before.

and btw I consider better to be hmm say... I can hear all the details and a huge sound stage with bass that doesn't overwhelm everything else....and accurate. I am assuming if something isn't over exaggerated im not going to miss anything.
I found out when I played things thru head phones and heard more detail then my floorstandings(probably because of my crap yamaha amp powering 250watt capable floorstandings...

I have noticed B&W speakers in some studios, but I was a dealer in a completely set up room with sound treatment and 20k worth of classe amps powering it (800D/series)....And it didn't sound that great.
What is your opinion on that, I do not know if you have worked in studios with that. btw... Im not going to spend 20k worth of amps on just 2 speakers. Im actually looking for pairs of parasound JC-1 used or some studio ones.
If you know any info on studio amps let me know! I only know yamaha has a few pro amps but have no clue how they compared to consumer amps.

[MattiasNYC]

woah...

Since I never worked in the studio before.....
I guess these speakers will have to be installed a certain way? Angles etc?

Or having studio monitors I can sorta put them in the wall and save room.

You mean "close to" the wall, right? Not literally "in" the wall?

As for angles, I was just talking about the "ideal" way to set them up. The short version of this is as follows:

Our industry has standards. The standards are set so that one can mix in "any" studio and feel comfortable with the result being equal to the other studios (that conform to the standard). And this standard also, in theory, makes the sound coming out of movie theatres more predictable. If it sounds fine on the mixing stage it'll sound fine in the movie theatre (except for Kips Bay in NYC which sucks).

The goal for you when you set up at home however varies. It's not only a matter sound quality, but budget and how it looks. So many people set their speakers up "where they can", and thus quality varies.

So my point was just that if you want it to sound closer to how it was intended there are a couple of standards that you can follow. It's not very complicated (for home use). Really the only additional item you'd need is some free software and an SPL meter from Radio Shack (once you get to surround).


It seems that DACs will be better then a typical receiver in every way which is why I want to run everything form the computer. Because I want to run dual-mono or mono amps.

But you should seriously consider also all the trade-offs that will take place. Even though a pro-DAC may be better you'll still have to spend on wiring, speakers, room treatment etc. At the end of the day it may be that it would have been a better value spending money on room treatment than the DAC, you know what I mean? Not saying it's the case, just that it could be.


What is your experience with the prism converters?

Zero. If you're looking at Lynx and UA you could probably also look at Benchmark. They've got a good reputation. Or an Apogee unit. Seem to be all in the same quality range.

Ok, a few more thoughts and then I'm done:

1) As I mentioned, the Lynx has good converters. Theoretically, a DA converter that lives on a PCIe card is susceptible to noise from the electronics inside the computer. But the LynxTWO-B that I use is perhaps the best in terms of shielding that noise. If you can pick one up for cheap that could be a good starting option. You'd get Lynx quality DAC without the need to buy two components: The AES card and then the external converter. The LynxTWO-B should be in the 700-800 range (2 ins, 6 outs).

2) Check out RME, a german company. If you end up getting an external converter it's possible that they sell cheaper AES cards. Very good quality and compatibility.

3) Next thing to check are companies like Grace Design. I'm using one of their headphone amp (m902) but it comes packed with features. It's very clean and sounds great. I didn't intend to use all the features and instead only the headphone amp part of it. Now, take a look at the m906 (http://www.gracedesign.com/products/m906/m906.htm). This probably looks like over-kill for a lot of reasons, but once you go down the "studio components" path a lot of things will look like that. What it has going for it though compared to UA and a Lynx aurora are:

~ Multiple input formats
~~~ stereo analog
~~~ consumer analog 5.1 (from receiver or BluRay player)
~~~ pro-level analog 5.1 (you probably don't need this)
~~~ AES digital inputs (enough for 5.1)
~~~ ADAT digital inputs (could provide for a cheaper option)
~ Remote controller
~ Mulitiple output formats
~~~ 2 headphone outs, one on front rack, one on remote.
~~~ 3 stereo outputs
~~~ 2 5.1 outputs (actually 3, technically speaking)
~ Can conveniently control individual channel levels

I'm not sure what it costs, but when everything is added up it may be a better option.... but probably not cheap...

The one problem you'll still have though is bass management, typically provided by either receiver or speaker system. As I said, some Genelec surround systems include this.

Blue Sky (http://abluesky.com/products/bmc-mkiii/) controller...
complete 5.1 system with bass management (http://abluesky.com/products/sky-system-one-5-1/) (THX pm3 certified)....

"dangerousmusic.com" also has high-quality devices....

As you can see you often end up with trade-offs which makes it expensive. If my brain can manage it I'll try to recommend something....

[crackhead2k]

I saw Genelec speakers installed in the wall.... but outside will be easier for me..

For me Quality and performance is much more important. And it would be nice to have a Dac that shows the bars so I know something is happening etc...

The reason why I wanted a pro-dac is if I use better amps/speaker it would sound better and be a noticeable difference. Sort of balancing things out...
I could just plug hdmi into a receiver with XLR but I don't know of any yet...except for the denon which cost a :banana::banana::banana::banana:load if I remember correctly.



What head phones are you using with their headphone amp [M902] XD
The main thing for me is 7.1/7.2 and I prefer AES seems to come in a single db25 cable for lynx and can carry up to 16 chs at 196k I think.

And btw, are the DACs easy to sell If I were to upgrade in the future?
Still deciding on the speakers, There doesn't seem to be any reviews on pro monitors. I don't know if the speakers sound "huge" I'm sure you know what I mean...

RME Looks interesting...but would prefer straight XLR to XLR just seems like a better connection. I may have to plug from TRS to XLR. I don't know what your opinion on that is....

Thanks for all the info ^_^;

[MattiasNYC]

What head phones are you using with their headphone amp [M902] XD

AKG 501's and BeyerDynamic 770Pro's.


The main thing for me is 7.1/7.2 and I prefer AES seems to come in a single db25 cable for lynx and can carry up to 16 chs at 196k I think.

There's also an 8 channel version.


And btw, are the DACs easy to sell If I were to upgrade in the future?

Honestly, if you get any of the brands we've discussed so far, I have a hard time seeing that you'd need to upgrade any time soon. Getting more out of your converters at that level would require quite a good listening environment. So what I mean is if you want to improve the sound by switching converters from the LYNX you might as well knock down a couple of walls, rebuild them to not be parallel, sound-proof the room, and put a ton of diffusers and absorbers in. That'll make a bigger difference at that point and may be necessary for you to even properly perceive the difference in DACs. Know what I mean?


Still deciding on the speakers, There doesn't seem to be any reviews on pro monitors. I don't know if the speakers sound "huge" I'm sure you know what I mean...

I wouldn't call Genelecs "huge" sounding. "Huge" to me implies a hyped experience that's a bit unreal.

You should be able to find reviews on pro speakers. Check out Soundonsound, a magazine that also is on the internet. There's also Mix Magazine, also available on the web.

I think your best bet is to find a retailer that accepts returns, and preferably also has a show room of good quality. Then just get a system and try it out for a week. If it's no good then swap for another.


RME Looks interesting...but would prefer straight XLR to XLR just seems like a better connection. I may have to plug from TRS to XLR. I don't know what your opinion on that is....

No problem going from XLR to TRS. TRS is fine. It's just a different connector. I'm guessing you won't be messing around with your wiring once you're setup anyways. As for RME they have a bunch of different products though:

There's the AES (http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_hdspe_aes.php) cards that may be cheaper than the LYNX, and the DA units (http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_overview_converter.php) some of which (http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_overview_firewire.php) connect to your computer via Firewire, meaning you won't need a separate AES card.

One company I forgot was SSL which has the XLogic (http://www.solid-state-logic.com/post/Xlogic%20Alpha-Link/index.asp) line of interfaces. Also good quality.


Thanks for all the info ^_^;

You're more than welcome!...

[crackhead2k]

Honestly, if you get any of the brands we've discussed so far, I have a hard time seeing that you'd need to upgrade any time soon. Getting more out of your converters at that level would require quite a good listening environment. So what I mean is if you want to improve the sound by switching converters from the LYNX you might as well knock down a couple of walls, rebuild them to not be parallel, sound-proof the room, and put a ton of diffusers and absorbers in. That'll make a bigger difference at that point and may be necessary for you to even properly perceive the difference in DACs. Know what I mean?

Gotcha


Honestly, if you get any of the brands we've discussed so far, I have a hard time seeing that you'd need to upgrade any time soon. Getting more out of your converters at that level would require quite a good listening environment. So what I mean is if you want to improve the sound by switching converters from the LYNX you might as well knock down a couple of walls, rebuild them to not be parallel, sound-proof the room, and put a ton of diffusers and absorbers in. That'll make a bigger difference at that point and may be necessary for you to even properly perceive the difference in DACs. Know what I mean?

Do you know of someone and places to check out this soundproofing and treatment stuff. It was actually one of the last things I thought I should do.... >.<"

Have your studio gone though several DACS too can you compare them? [I'm deciding between the lynx Aurora, LynxTwo, RME]
Is there a reason why studios don't use consumer speakers? I only know of the B&W being used in 2 or 3 studios...
Still doing a bit of research on the genelecs don't have too much time. For the Genelecs do you know the difference from speaker to speaker?

[MattiasNYC]

Do you know of someone and places to check out this soundproofing and treatment stuff. It was actually one of the last things I thought I should do.... >.<"

Well, first, let me give you just a little bit of background (and pardon me for these long-winded ramblings).

You have three main issues to deal with in a listening environment. When you treat them you improve the environment to different degrees depending on how big the individual issue was to begin with:

a) Isolation; if your environment is poorly isolated the first thing that is a problem is sounds leaking into your room from the outside. Obviously, you don't want to hear trucks and ambulances at that soft-spoken sensitive moment in that tear-jerker movie, right? The second issue is your neighbors complaining when Bruckheimer or Emmerich desides to blow up planet earth in some sinister fashion. Isolating solves these problems, but it's very expensive as it involves actual construction or modification of walls, ceiling and floors. This is what "soundproofing" is commonly considered to be (to my knowledge). Thus probably nothing you want to get into.

b) Diffusion; when the sound leaves your speaker it will go in different directions. The straight line to your ear is the direct sound which is what you want the most of. But it also goes off to the side and bounces off the surrounding surfaces, walls, floor and ceiling. The first reflections cause problems, because they are so close in time to the direct sound that the brain can't separate the two. They also interfere acoustically. The effect of this is poor imaging. If you're watching a movie and someone does something to the side of the screen it won't sound as pin-pointed if there's lots of early reflections going on, because you'll hear the sound coming from both the speaker and the wall it bounced off of. Diffusors are basically material that is angular and redirects the sound back a different way.

c) Absorbtion; even if you make the sound bounce back a different direction it will still bounce into the room and hit yet another surface, and so on. To make the sound stop you want it to be absorbed by stuff in the room. Absorbing the sound is done by panels (in studios) that target specific frequencies. This is essentially "tuning" the room. You can go into one room and hear a lot of high frequencies and after it's treated the room is much more even. A bigger issue though is usually the bass. It has a tendency to be VERY hard to control in rooms. It needs to be properly absorbed.

So what can you do?

Well, you can pretty much forget isolation if you're in an apartment, or a structure you can't change. As for diffusion, you can actually do a few things. The first thing to do is to make sure that the setup is symmetrical. Don't have a set of glass windows on your left side and a curtain on your right. That's going to mess up the sound stage. In order to eliminate early reflections you can buy diffusers, or you can get something similar yourself. Though not "professional" and certainly not pretty, some people use egg cartons. The pointy surface helps diffuse the sound waves. A bookshelf can also help. The one thing to do however is this: Take a friend. Have that friend hold a mirror. Sit yourself down in the ideal listening spot. Have your friend hold the mirror flush to the wall and walk along it. When you see the speaker in the mirror you've found exactly where the first reflection will come from, that's where you want to diffuse the sound.

Lastly absorbtion. Different materials/density absorb different frequencies with different efficiency. You can buy both absorbers / diffusers that look nice and they'll do a good job. Obviously not cheap. I'd suggest simply experimenting. For example: A big nice leather couch will have the sound bounce off of its smooth surface. If you swap it for a plush couch with a soft texture and fabric cover it's likely to actually absorb a bunch of low end. Good. Corners are sources for reinforced bass. Try tossing a covered futon mattress in there, or a chunk of pillows. Etc. Just experiment. The mass in the room will affect the aoustics and the sound.

Sorry about the length of that reply, but the acoustics of your room have a really big effect on how good it sounds, in many cases it makes a bigger difference than going from an RME converter to a LYNX. One very common brand of acoustic treatment is "Auralex". Once again, search Mix Magazine and SoundOnSound online for these things.


Have your studio gone though several DACS too can you compare them? [I'm deciding between the lynx Aurora, LynxTwo, RME]

The difficulty with this stuff is being objective. The only way to be objective is in double-blind testing, which I haven't done. I suggest you get what is most cost-effective considering functionality and price. The brands are all good. If you want me to rank them according to what I think the consensus may be, I'd say starting with the best it'd be something like: 1-Prism (the EXPENSIVE line, not "Orpheus"), 2-Lynx Aurora and SSL, 3-LynxTWO, Orpheus and RME (probably forgot some).

But once again; (for example) getting a firewire RME if you save money may end up giving you better sound in the end because you can spend that money on acoustics. All of those brands should have decent resale value as well, except perhaps for the cheaper Orpheus since it's a relatively new and "untested" product.


Is there a reason why studios don't use consumer speakers? I only know of the B&W being used in 2 or 3 studios...

My hunch is that if you've seen B&W speakers it could have been in a mastering studio. A full range flat-response set up is required for mastering, not really for production. It's a matter of cost. There's simply not enough money to invest into getting a "perfect" studio for production. You can think of it in terms of each stage of production having gear that allows that stage to do its job as good as financially reasonable, with the next stage building on that. At the end of the day you end up in the most expensive studio where any errors are corrected and the final product is created. For film, audio production takes months, and the final mix may take weeks.

Finally, some consumer stuff is found in studios just so that we have something "real world" to compare our work on. A lot of engineers have these really tiny speakers to listen to which are more like boom-boxes or smaller consumer stereos, or we watch on TVs, and many burn a CD and go out in the car and listen to it there for reference.


Still doing a bit of research on the genelecs don't have too much time. For the Genelecs do you know the difference from speaker to speaker?

Not really. I would look for a "pre-made system" if you want to get a high-quality surround setup. Heck, just call them up and ask, or ask a reputable retailer. The benefit of getting a "system" is that they've already thought about cross-over frequencies between mains and subwoofer, and they've thought about bass management. It's probably better for you in the end if you go down that road rather than take a chance and get subs/mains that are hard to integrate with each other. This is why I suggested getting one of Genelec subs with bass management. You could probably look at what surround packages they sell and get that sub and two mains for now, and expand later. Same with BluSky. In general, a small front/surround speaker has a high lowest frequency. This means that the subwoofer must go "equally high" in order to cross-over properly. BUT, high frequencies are easier to locate and the result is poor imaging when the crossover frequency between the sub and the speakers is too high. Unfortunately bigger/deeper front/surround speakers are more expensive, so it's a trade-off. I think the cinema standard puts the crossover at about 80Hz (though I could be wrong). That'd probably require at least a 5 inch woofer on the front/surround speakers.

Hope I didn't confuse you more....

[crackhead2k]

Well, first, let me give you just a little bit of background (and pardon me for these long-winded ramblings).

You have three main issues to deal with in a listening environment. When you treat them you improve the environment to different degrees depending on how big the individual issue was to begin with:

a) Isolation; if your environment is poorly isolated the first thing that is a problem is sounds leaking into your room from the outside. Obviously, you don't want to hear trucks and ambulances at that soft-spoken sensitive moment in that tear-jerker movie, right? The second issue is your neighbors complaining when Bruckheimer or Emmerich desides to blow up planet earth in some sinister fashion. Isolating solves these problems, but it's very expensive as it involves actual construction or modification of walls, ceiling and floors. This is what "soundproofing" is commonly considered to be (to my knowledge). Thus probably nothing you want to get into.

b) Diffusion; when the sound leaves your speaker it will go in different directions. The straight line to your ear is the direct sound which is what you want the most of. But it also goes off to the side and bounces off the surrounding surfaces, walls, floor and ceiling. The first reflections cause problems, because they are so close in time to the direct sound that the brain can't separate the two. They also interfere acoustically. The effect of this is poor imaging. If you're watching a movie and someone does something to the side of the screen it won't sound as pin-pointed if there's lots of early reflections going on, because you'll hear the sound coming from both the speaker and the wall it bounced off of. Diffusors are basically material that is angular and redirects the sound back a different way.

c) Absorbtion; even if you make the sound bounce back a different direction it will still bounce into the room and hit yet another surface, and so on. To make the sound stop you want it to be absorbed by stuff in the room. Absorbing the sound is done by panels (in studios) that target specific frequencies. This is essentially "tuning" the room. You can go into one room and hear a lot of high frequencies and after it's treated the room is much more even. A bigger issue though is usually the bass. It has a tendency to be VERY hard to control in rooms. It needs to be properly absorbed.

So what can you do?

Well, you can pretty much forget isolation if you're in an apartment, or a structure you can't change. As for diffusion, you can actually do a few things. The first thing to do is to make sure that the setup is symmetrical. Don't have a set of glass windows on your left side and a curtain on your right. That's going to mess up the sound stage. In order to eliminate early reflections you can buy diffusers, or you can get something similar yourself. Though not "professional" and certainly not pretty, some people use egg cartons. The pointy surface helps diffuse the sound waves. A bookshelf can also help. The one thing to do however is this: Take a friend. Have that friend hold a mirror. Sit yourself down in the ideal listening spot. Have your friend hold the mirror flush to the wall and walk along it. When you see the speaker in the mirror you've found exactly where the first reflection will come from, that's where you want to diffuse the sound.

Lastly absorbtion. Different materials/density absorb different frequencies with different efficiency. You can buy both absorbers / diffusers that look nice and they'll do a good job. Obviously not cheap. I'd suggest simply experimenting. For example: A big nice leather couch will have the sound bounce off of its smooth surface. If you swap it for a plush couch with a soft texture and fabric cover it's likely to actually absorb a bunch of low end. Good. Corners are sources for reinforced bass. Try tossing a covered futon mattress in there, or a chunk of pillows. Etc. Just experiment. The mass in the room will affect the aoustics and the sound.

Sorry about the length of that reply, but the acoustics of your room have a really big effect on how good it sounds, in many cases it makes a bigger difference than going from an RME converter to a LYNX. One very common brand of acoustic treatment is "Auralex". Once again, search Mix Magazine and SoundOnSound online for these things.

Looking through the galleries for auralex. I might do some basic repainting and try to make it a little nicer. Nice info!


The difficulty with this stuff is being objective. The only way to be objective is in double-blind testing, which I haven't done. I suggest you get what is most cost-effective considering functionality and price. The brands are all good. If you want me to rank them according to what I think the consensus may be, I'd say starting with the best it'd be something like: 1-Prism (the EXPENSIVE line, not "Orpheus"), 2-Lynx Aurora and SSL, 3-LynxTWO, Orpheus and RME (probably forgot some).

But once again; (for example) getting a firewire RME if you save money may end up giving you better sound in the end because you can spend that money on acoustics. All of those brands should have decent resale value as well, except perhaps for the cheaper Orpheus since it's a relatively new and "untested" product.


I thought orpheus was ranked higher 0.0 well at least on gearslutz. The specs look pretty darn good.


My hunch is that if you've seen B&W speakers it could have been in a mastering studio. A full range flat-response set up is required for mastering, not really for production. It's a matter of cost. There's simply not enough money to invest into getting a "perfect" studio for production. You can think of it in terms of each stage of production having gear that allows that stage to do its job as good as financially reasonable, with the next stage building on that. At the end of the day you end up in the most expensive studio where any errors are corrected and the final product is created. For film, audio production takes months, and the final mix may take weeks.

Finally, some consumer stuff is found in studios just so that we have something "real world" to compare our work on. A lot of engineers have these really tiny speakers to listen to which are more like boom-boxes or smaller consumer stereos, or we watch on TVs, and many burn a CD and go out in the car and listen to it there for reference.

Oh okay... I see


Not really. I would look for a "pre-made system" if you want to get a high-quality surround setup. Heck, just call them up and ask, or ask a reputable retailer. The benefit of getting a "system" is that they've already thought about cross-over frequencies between mains and subwoofer, and they've thought about bass management. It's probably better for you in the end if you go down that road rather than take a chance and get subs/mains that are hard to integrate with each other. This is why I suggested getting one of Genelec subs with bass management. You could probably look at what surround packages they sell and get that sub and two mains for now, and expand later. Same with BluSky. In general, a small front/surround speaker has a high lowest frequency. This means that the subwoofer must go "equally high" in order to cross-over properly. BUT, high frequencies are easier to locate and the result is poor imaging when the crossover frequency between the sub and the speakers is too high. Unfortunately bigger/deeper front/surround speakers are more expensive, so it's a trade-off. I think the cinema standard puts the crossover at about 80Hz (though I could be wrong). That'd probably require at least a 5 inch woofer on the front/surround speakers.

Hope I didn't confuse you more....

Nope not confused at all, I just need to look at more products. I need to try things out etc...I should be able to do more research this weekend :)
and look into it amp combinations dac etc

[MattiasNYC]

I thought orpheus was ranked higher 0.0 well at least on gearslutz. The specs look pretty darn good.

You know, I could be wrong. Prism has a fairly long history and as far as I know they were only known for making absolute top end converters until they released this Orpheus quite recently. Obviously compared to their top of the line products there simply has to be trade offs with this cheaper unit. I think it's probably less than half the price of the big brothers they sell.

As to Gearslutz... well, it's Gearslutz... everyone has an opinion there, and the range of quality engineers there.... uhm... "varies greatly", if you know what I mean.

Either way, I seriously doubt you'd regret getting one. At this level it's all pretty much good enough for your needs I think.


By the way; I forgot about one brand, Mytek. They also have quite a good reputation.


Also, I'm not sure if this is practical and if you even want to get into it, but, both Prism (at least expensive units) and Mytek have add-ons that allow you to run DSD and DXD if you ever want to listen to SACD..... Just throwing it out there since you're on an apparent spending spree ! :);)

[crackhead2k]

Also, I'm not sure if this is practical and if you even want to get into it, but, both Prism (at least expensive units) and Mytek have add-ons that allow you to run DSD and DXD if you ever want to listen to SACD..... Just throwing it out there since you're on an apparent spending spree !

haha, I do one upgrade in a long time 7-8 months? I just feel like rewarding myself with some nice music for the soul :)
Got a small raise and bonus from boss :D

I'll let you know how it goes this weekend.. I still need to find a studio that may show me some of the stuff and a retailer. Easy to find consumer stuff harder for pro I think.

And I will definitely check out MyTek.