Choosing the right TV/monitor

[longh]

Hello

Im trying to choose a new monitor for my PC that can also be used as a TV and i think i need a bit of help.

At the moment im using a Samsung LE26S8 WXGA TV (1366x768, 60hz LCD)
I also use it as my PC monitor connected via DVI-VGA cable.
I feel really confortable on it and i can be entire hours in front of it with no visual fatigue. Also it feels good for gaming (mostly CSS and BFBC2) and i cant see any ghosting even its 60hz though.

For a couple of days i've been using a Sony bravia 37" 1080p and it isnt as confortable as my Samsung. Dunno it its because of the high resolution or the size.

I use my monitor mostly for internet browsing, gaming, Autocad, movies and watching TV so im looking for a monitor that can also be used as a DTV TV, preferably 16:10 format (16:9 is also fine) and doesnt have a very high imput lag. It has to be over 25" (i'm sitting 1.4 meters from it)
I've heard that 120 hz monitors are way more confortable for gaming than 60hz ones but i'd like to hear some thoughts about this.

From what i've seen the VA panel seems better than TN and shouldn't be quite expensive.

Oh, i forgot to mention that a 10x10 cm VESA wall mount would be really nice.

Thanks

[longh]

Well, i just found a DTV receiver that can be used on any monitor so i think you can forget the part about the integrated DTV

[Frag Maniac]

I really think it's a mistake to get a monitor and use it as a TV vs a decent TV as a monitor. Unfortunately the best TVs for such purpose aren't being made with high end features like Alpha IPS panels anymore like Panasonic's last yr's TC-L32S1 model (32"). You can however get one used in like-new condition at Amazon for around $500 with free shipping though and add a one yr warranty for about $45.

However, people seem to also be liking this yr's Panny 32" 1080p TC-L32U22 model, despite it being standard IPS and having no Motion Focus tech built in. It can be had for only $480 at Sears and I'll be looking at one today. I'll report back on picture quality. Conceivably at the right time of yr (best sales are just before SuperBowl Sun), one might find this set for $400 or less.

Sharp is the other name in low input lag TVs, but the only 32" 1080p they have is an edge lit LED model for $800.

[zanzabar]

this years 32" u22 still has an aIPS panel, and its supposed to be the same as the s1, i love my s1 32". but i dont know about the euro line up

most places that have cable u will need a cable box now to do anything as nothing is clear qam (euro may be diffrent), so anything with HDMI will work as a tv, but have u looked at asus NA they have a 25.5" 1920x1200 and its basically the last 16:10 large monitor under $400

[Frag Maniac]

this years 32" u22 still has an aIPS panel, and its supposed to be the same as the s1, i love my s1 32". You sure about that Zan? The TC-L32U22 model I mentioned only says IPS not Alpha IPS and Motion Focus is not listed either. I know yours has both. The TC-L32U22 is also going for quite a bit less than yours did so I don't see how it could be the same set.

There's tech savvy guys such as Frito at the AVS forum speculating that Panny doesn't use Alpha IPS in any of their lower end sets anymore, and he's usually right. I don't see why they'd drop Motion Focus though, it's not a big expense and most seemed to like it.

If you can verify anything about Alpha IPS still being used in the TC-L32U22 and/or Motion Focus, please do. Also, do you typically leave the MF on, or rarely use it, and if so when do you use it? I think you mentioned it before, but sorry I forgot what you said.

Sears is pretty friendly in their electronics department and hopefully I can tweak the settings a bit and get them to play a movie disc or maybe even hook up a game console to it. Not really worried about input lag though, as I know Panny is typically the lowest.

(EDITED)
Just called Panasonic's Viera hotline and the guy checked with one of their engineers. Despite Alpha not being listed in the spec it DOES have an Alpha IPS panel. Apparently any model with TC-L in it does. It does NOT however have Motion Focus. Since the set is priced lower than last yr's model that has it, I can only assume from customer feedback they found most thought it wasn't necessary on that size of set, and could sell at a lower more competitive price point without it. Panasonic is definitely outdoing Sharp lately on bang for buck it seems.

So I'm off to see the set at Sears and have found US Appliance has a very good price on it at $450. Don't know who's price/shipping scenario is best yet though. In retrospect after reading your post again Zan, it appears you meant the panel is the same as the S1, not the whole model. Still interested in whether you feel MF is a necessary feature in such a set though?

[zanzabar]

i leave motion focus on for cable i have no idea what it dose though as its 60hz, mpeg noise reduction helps for sports thoguh, they also still ship the s1 the video only by my house keeps getting them or got a huge stock and they raised the price i got mine for $400 pre tax and recycling fee in feb so i think that they are still getting them from some ware if not from panasonic.

for the alpha panels i guess u are right it dose not say alpha but i cannot see panasonic using an eIPS since they are from lg but they may have stopped making aIPS in that size or they are having them multi source, and it dose say no motion focus and dose not lisk 3d comb filter or xv color, but they have the same dimensions and lay out so i dont know whats up with it, and it looks like the best 2010 ntsc model for 32". but the OP is in europe so it wont matter

[Frag Maniac]

Well I just checked out the TC-L32U22 model at Sears and I think I may buy it tomorrow. It's on sale for $480 right now with an additional 10% off on a special sale tomorrow, which brings it to $432. That's pretty good considering how little time it's been on the market. My guess is best pre SuperBowl price won't be any better than $400.

Don't know if you read the edited part above Zan, but the guy at Panny I spoke to on the phone today checked with an engineer and he did say this yr's 32" 1080p model uses Alpha IPS, but no Motion Focus. Sounds to me from what you're saying MF is really only useful with select content anyway. I know some cable content isn't great to begin with and a lot of sports broadcasts suffer from poor panning and focus exacerbated by 1080i vs 720p.

I'm not a big TVaholic in general and don't watch a lot of sports that have such problems. If anything I prefer the less mainstream sports. The loop they had playing at Sears I must say was better in IQ than a lot of feeds I've seen at high end AV stores. There was only one short segment I noticed any pixelation or blur on, and that was a high energy concert filmed in 3D and with lots of zoom in and out, so I'm not going to judge it based on that. Even that segment was not bad the 2nd time I watched it. The first time one of the less knowledgeable salesmen was fiddling with the set and taking it in and out of the channel it was on, which may have caused most of the image distortion.

The loop they had running showed some great HD game content and a movie called Dr. Parnassus with Johnny Depp and Heath Ledger that looked incredible. Sadly Heath died midway through the filming so they could only use him for the first half of the movie. I could tell right away this set has an Alpha IPS type panel. It is very high conrast ratio (20,000:1) with very rich blacks and natural colors.

My only concern is whether it will be possible to adjust it without some dark scenes losing the gradient of darker colors. When I looked at other sets in the store during dark scenes though, they were either washed out and too bright or no better at the Panny at gradients. It just seems to be the way a lot of movies are shot now, they'll have scenes so dark you can't distinguish everything in them.

The only adjustments I made was to put it in Custom mode and drop the Contrast to that of the brightness at 80, then drop the Color from 50 to 45. It seemed to lessen the lack of distinction among dark colors in dark scenes, but their store lighting is not exactly the best for such adjustments. I'll probably get there before the sale stats tomorrow and try adjusting it some more.

Zan can you tell me what video settings you use on your S1 for movies? I want to stop at Fry's tomorrow and test them out with better lighting.

[longh]

well, yesterday i went to a local electronics store and bought a Toshiba (http://eu.consumer.toshiba.eu/en/products/tv/32SL733#productDetailHilights) led tv. After an hour playing BFBC2 and watching Inception (great movie btw) i think this might not be as adequate as i thought. My old trusty 26" Samsung LCD feels a lot more confortable for web browsing, even for gaming it feels smoother (fps related i think). On the other hands, this Toshiba has better colours and a 5ms response time, which i think is quite good for a TV. I can return it within a week and exchange it or get a refund. I still dont think this is worth the 700€ (~900$)
Unfortunately its hard to find Panasonic TVs here in Spain but from what the store guy told me, there arent many TVs that have a full led backpanel. Most of them only have led backlights on the edges of the screen and this seems to have the full backpanel.
Please Zan, could you link me that asus monitor? I might give it a shot.
Anyways, i'll try to find that Panasonic . Seems a really good deal for 500$

Thank you

[zanzabar]

its the asus VW266H, i dont know about getting it in euro though


@frag, u can check for the setting but i think that all panasonics have independent brightness and back lights so what u do is top the brightness out and adjust the back light down, then set the black level to dark under the advanced picture options.

[Frag Maniac]

Sorry Longh, didn't notice you're in Europe. I'm pretty sure there are Euro versions of Panasonic TVs though. On the AVS forum there was talk of Euro models of last yr's Pannys anyway.

Zan I'm not sure this model of Panny I'm talking about even has advanced video options or separate brightness and back light settings. I had to use the controls on the set in Sears because they didn't have the right remote for it, but I saw no such settings in the menu.

The main two things I'm wary of are not being able to get the right settings for brightness/black level and not having Motion Focus. In your opinion would lack of Motion Focus be a deal breaker on this set?

I think I'll pass on their special sale because these sets will be around for a while and the price will drop again, probably even more so. I may end up going for the 37" version of their LED lit model with Motion Focus and Motion Picture Pro 4. In the store they had the 42" model and I was very impressed with how even the edge lighting was, even with the screen all black. It would no doubt show dark scenes with better gradients. Currently the 37" model is around $740 lowest price, but at the peak of the TV sales season it should get much lower. my guess is it will drop to around $650 or so. I paid $600 for my Samsung 26" CRT HDTV over 4 yrs ago, so the TC-L37D2 at $650 would be a bargain by comparison.

http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-electronics/shop/Televisions/VIERA-2010-HDTV-Series/VIERA-D2-Series-LED-1080p-HDTVs/model.TC-L37D2_11002_7000000000000005702

[longh]

thank you both for your suggestions

do you think the toshiba tv i bought has an ips panel or the VA?

[zanzabar]

i have no idea what the motion focus dose since its 60hz, i cannot tell the difference on the tv but i leave it on as its recommended, the mpeg noise reduction dose make a difference though with cable.

to get the the options u hit menu then go picture its the 1st option, so from the tv u hit menu then input (input = select), that will have the brightness and back light, if it dose not have that i would skip it. and at the bottom of that menu there is the advanced menu, not all options work with all input resolutions and on mine atleast u have to set the options for all resolutions on all inputs so its nice for customization on the advanced then the basic option (color, brightness, backlight) all get set per input

toshiba is normally an mva

[Frag Maniac]

Yeah I don't think Tosh makes any IPS TVs. Panny and LG both have IPS. My guess is the Tosh TVs are SPVA like most TVs are. MVA isn't really used anymore. This yr's LG IPS look much better than last yr's, but I would still lean toward Panny for image quality and overall quality/service of product. If you can't get Panny though Longh, the LGs are worth looking at.

Zan I'm pretty sure the 32" model I looked at doesn't have separate brightness and back light settings, it's a very basic model. I did go to Menu/Input, and I saw no advanced option at the bottom.

Pretty sure I want to wait for a price drop on the 37" LED model. Panny's LED models are the best of the edge lit LEDs IMO. Their Alpha IPS panel combined with excellent backlight focus and diffusion make for the best combo of clear, high contrast picture with very even lighting.

I'll have to rethink the TV stand I go with, but Best Buy has an adequate one for $109.

[zanzabar]

the manual for the u22 says that it has brightness and back light separate, mpeg noise reduction and black level among others
http://service.us.panasonic.com/OPERMANPDF/TCL32U22.PDF page 24

[Frag Maniac]

OK, thanks. I had to switch from Iron to Firefox just to read that part of the pdf. That set does not however have Motion Focus. What Panny said and the lack of such a feature in the manual make that rather obvious. I have to say it's no wonder many are assuming the Panny 2010 sets don't have many adjustments. The menus are far from being intuitive and easy to use.

I'll have to get down to Fry's and check out the TC-L37D2. They have it on display and their showroom lighting is the best of all the stores for adjusting TVs. Unfortunately they don't have a TC-LU22 to compare it to on display, but Best Buy has it on display and usually you can talk one of their staff into digging up a a remote. I'll be missing that sale today at Sears, but the TC-LU22 will probably go lower than that anyway. Heck, you got your S1 for less than that and it's a better set.

[zanzabar]

i got my s1 in feb though, and thats the cheapest time since thats when they have to clear room for the new sets that they have to take

if the u22 has everything in the manual it should be great

[Frag Maniac]

i got my s1 in feb though, and thats the cheapest time since thats when they have to clear room for the new sets that they have to take ...if the u22 has everything in the manual it should be greatYeah but I'm keeping in mind I'm in no hurry to get a set right now. It won't be a priority until I build my new gaming PC. I originally only went in to look at the 32U22 because I found out it is Alpha IPS, despite some saying it wasn't. I only started thinking about buying it now due to the sale.

Yeah Feb is usually best time of yr, but if you wait until the SuperBowl is over the prices can go back up and availability become slim. The only thing I'm concerned about as far as timing my purchase is I've heard manufacturer's haven't shipped as many TVs this yr as usual. So I may have to buy before Feb.

[Frag Maniac]

As mentioned in the other thread, I looked at some Pannys at Frys today. They DID actually have the 32U22 on display despite having said it wasn't last time I called. I noticed it's NR says "Video NR", not "MPEG NR" like the 37D2 does. One thing I'm not sure on is how you activate Motion Focus though. On your S1 is Motion Focus in the menu labeled AS Motion Focus, or is it MPEG NR or just on all the time? I seem to recall you saying you could turn off MF.

Anyway, I came away thinking the U22 is every bit as good if not better than the D2 like some have said. Despite having LED lighting, the D2 isn't any brighter than the U22. The Alpha IPS screens seem to be overly dark. When a page comes on that's all white, it looks light grey on the Alpha IP Pannys, and white on every other set. The odd thing is I was complaining about that in the LGs last yr, but this yr's models don't seem to have that problem. I think it was the anti glare coating they were using last yr that made them overly dark. I know some IPS panels do have a polarizer filter to resist glare that can slightly darken the screen. Not sure I like it.

[Williambra]

A TV will be cheaper. But that brings it's own issues.

For serious Photoshop work, you should absolutely have a decent monitor. Everything else on that list could be done on a TV.