Andre Yang - Lifetime Ban

[Charles Wirth]

Andre shared scores to alter and or ruin the MOA online contest. :shakes: Four of the results in three different countries were by the same person. Today three members came forward who held winning positions in the Lord of Overclocking competition admitting to using the scores produced by Andre.

This is not the first time reports of score sharing by Andre has been reported but it is the first time verified damaging to an online contest.

After discussion with legit score holders in the contest, they have decided your fate with 100% agreement.

Related articles:
http://futuremark.yougamers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=129873&page=9

http://www.overclock.net/software-news/782716-hwbot-andreyang-banned.html

http://hwbot.org/article/news/removal_of_accounts_following_fm_loc_incident

After some time for the dust to settle, it appears that more people are involved that just these four. I applaud those who refrained from submitting.

[zalbard]

Woah... I'm speechless.

[jesperme]

It it sad that people even is thinking to do something like this...

But the forums are a better place now without these "Overclockers".

[BenchZowner]

Time to get rid of all the "great" people.
Cheaters and abusers should be kicked out of the forums and the ranking sites.

p.s. Despite the fact that in their ToU HWbot states "Sharing/selling results = lifetime ban" we see a 1 year ban for mr "I think my money and connections beat everyone and is the honored way to go".

Goodbye, we will NOT miss you at all.

[e-Killer]

That is a good decision!! well done Charles, The OC scene need a refresh!

[thebanik]

Damn nice Fugger, if hwbot can follow suit as well with a lifetime ban, then I guess I/we will be at peace...

[Kal-EL]

Smells like this was common practice in certain circles. Jackfruits!

[geobot24]

Fair enough...:up:

[randomizer]

I'm reading 1 year, not lifetime. I suppose I'm missing something.

[BenchZowner]

The life-time ban is for XtremeSystems randomizer.

[jaredpace]

Dang that guy was my hero. What a shame

[Booj]

Good Call. The whole community will be better off. Never had any respect for that guy or his a$$ kissers.

[Sn0wm@n]

great move fugger!! lets remove those scums to make it more appealing to newcommers so they dont feel cheated by our formidable hobby


and seriously i wont see hiwa and all the other involved in this scam as the same in the future .....

[~CS~]

This is something that no overclocking community, how small it may be, should tolerate. Therefore, we issue a 1-year ban to all the people involved: AndreYang, Hiwa, eXtremetweaker.de, KJ and Skinnee.


Skinnee? The guy that does all the watercooling testing ? He was involved? Very strange.

[Slay0r]

Thats both sad and stupid on both the ends. Enjoy your time away and perhaps turn back on your brains.

[cowie]

wtf were these guys thinking??

it dont make them bad guys but WTF WERE THEY THINKING?????

[giorgos th.]

Nice move but it won`t solve the problem i guess...
It`s a matter of attitude i guess...
Cannot change eveyones brains....
That`s why the O/C scene is derailed in 1-2 years..

[Frontl1ne]

Skinnee? The guy that does all the watercooling testing ? He was involved? Very strange.

Yeah, that's what I thought when I saw his name as well. Maybe it is a different skinnee :confused:

[BenchZowner]

pretty sad day for Ocers...........lifetime ban is a tough sentence though

Well deserved please allow me to add.

p.s. Yes people, it's the same skinnee, the watercooling man.

[thebanik]

Yeah, that's what I thought when I saw his name as well. Maybe it is a different skinnee :confused:

same and he was the first to publicly accept it as well......

[Sn0wm@n]

pretty sad day for Ocers...........lifetime ban is a tough sentence though

you think???? some people base their purchase based on scores that some hot shot did on xs or see them as a role model .... they are held to a higher standard and they should behave like so .... heck im a lonely guy who didnt accomplish anythinf decent yet but maybe one day i will and that day when i do i wont be a cheater just to help keep the torch of the oc'ing spirit light

[hipro5]

WTF is going on here?...... :(
Andre?.......Hiwa?..... :(

DUMN!....... :(

Though I don't know in person Hiwa, I thought that he was a good guy and not a cheeter at all!..... :(

Andre on the other hand - as for me - he is a good guy..... BUT he did a mistake........I think life time ban is TOO much for a mistake....One year is OK as for me.... :)

Many of you guys may not like him, but deeply he's a proud and good man.... :)

[slamms]

They made a mistake, but they OC skills are very high, and I think that a year later, we once again see them in the tops world rankings

[Hornet331]

Woah... I'm speechless.

Same here... :eek:

[T_M]

:slapass: GTFO of the community :cussing:

[cowie]

no wait...WTF were these guys thinking..... no really...what ??????:shakes:

[Frananta]

Duh! this is shocking :shakes:

[ViViD]

OMG It's Sad Story
I'm Shocked When See This Bad News :O

Realy Sorry For HIWA But You Have Mistake :(

[BenchZowner]

As the devil's advocate myself, may I ask a simple question ?

What makes you think that this wasn't the case before ?
I mean, isn't it possible that Andre ( and maybe some other people too ) used to sell/share results with other ( or the same ) people in the past too ?
And for the ones saying "let them come back into HWbot & OC community after a year"... once again, what makes you think that they won't do that again ?
Want a real-life example ? One word, politicians. ( I'll stop it here though, I respect XS.org's rules about no political stuff )

Shameless people have no limits.
And just like dr. House says, "People don't change".

[FlanK3r]

what made Hiwa? This "second" news i found not....

[NightCrawler™]

Although I agree he screwed up pretty bad I don't think the life time ban has any merit..

[Johnny87au]

wait hiwa and skinny got banned?!?!??!!?!?! hiwa makes the memory section and skinee with all his tests.. now we got no1 to do the watercooling runs and memory!

[BenchZowner]

hiwa makes the memory section

That's quite not true.
And by the way, no man makes a section.
The community does, and there are lots of respected and good people active in those sections and the forums in general.

[Johnny87au]

I use to be a lurker as a guest for 2 years, seems as if the forum is dying.. ive seen so many banns .. they most likely deserved it but yeah..

[ARandomOWL]

Is the lifetime ban from XS or what? I'm confused.

[BenchZowner]

XS life-time ban for AndreYang.
That's what this thread is about ARandomOWl

[Johnny87au]

yeh but hiwa,skinny 1 year ban.. martin doesnt test anymore so looks like our main watercooling dude is out of the game too..

[zalbard]

yeh but hiwa,skinny 1 year ban.. martin doesnt test anymore so looks like our main watercooling dude is out of the game too..
Do not confuse HWBot with XS. Martin is not banned on XS. Just Andre is.
Edit: or not... I am confused now. I thought all of them were getting a ban for 1 year on HWBot, and just Andre was getting banned on XS?

[M.Beier]

I'd just like to say; thanks to MSI for actively forcing an investigation

[Don_Corleone]

Totally agree with BenchZowner
It's time to get rid of this peoples and oc community never dies without peoples like them.
Someones trying hard to achieve better results and someones spending high to achieve them. It's not true in my opinion.

[Johnny87au]

Do not confuse HWBot with XS. Martin is not banned on XS. Just Andre is.
Edit: or not... I am confused now. I thought all of them were getting a ban for 1 year on HWBot, and just Andre was getting banned on XS?

andre is a life time ban, rest are 1 year banned on XS

[BenchZowner]

yeh but hiwa,skinny 1 year ban.. martin doesnt test anymore so looks like our main watercooling dude is out of the game too..

That's flawed thinking by the way.
Just follow my thoughts for a second:

Even if the hypothetical person A is the best overclocking motherboards designer, and that person does a bad thing, like creating a problematic board on purpose, or steals or kidnaps somebody in real-life, we shouldn't punish him because we'll lose his products/support/services/whatever ?

[[XC] Oj101]

Hiwa??? :( :( :( :( :(

[BustaH]

I'm surprised at Hiwa? Andre? not. the others I don't know. think about this though, if you were found doing this in some other sport = lifetime ban I think even a blindman would look to Andre as being the instigator of this and makes one wonder what's gone on before? and who has slipped under the radar? it makes the honest overclockers look like mugs with their fair efforts. :mad:

[Ket]

Cheating should carry a zero tolerence policy. Many PM me asking for advice across various forums. I would never even contemplate the thought of cheating in order to favor something. For this reason, I 100% agree with the lifetime ban.

[jakefalcons]

damn skinee was the man for testing watercooling parts, someone has some big shoes to fill :(

[Sn0wm@n]

all i wanna know is why they are asking you for advice :rofl:

the point is he's a stand up guy ...

[Hell Hound]

Don't question fugger about the ban.This gives xs a bad look.I suggest video of oc in a high profile comp.:shakes:

[v0dka]

Bring out the BANHAMMER!

Weak that hwbot only issues a 1 year ban. My opinion is that cheating is dealt with far too lenient.

[Hell Hound]

They must be close friends,Sammy sosa was almost killed for cheating.:shocked:

[ChaosAD]

I agree that cheating is not good at all. And it should be punished no matter what. But i also find lifetime ban or anything similar a little to harsh for anyone. Its not like he killed someone. He should get a second chance to prove sorry for his action whoever he is. There are some ppl that learn from their mistakes!

[naokaji]

He should get a second chance to prove sorry for his action whoever he is. There are some ppl that learn from their mistakes!

See the first post of the thread:


This is not the first time reports of score sharing by Andre has been reported

[Calmatory]

Ban all the cheaters from everywhere please. If someone has to take this hobby as seriously as to resort in cheating, then they really need to take a break from it and get to something else.

Then again, since when has competitive overclocking been fair? :)

[diezel]

I'm speechless pretty sad day for Ocers :poke:

[BenchZowner]

Actually it's a happy day, we now have less idi0ts in the community.

[kill_a_wat]

whoa...

when I first signed up to XS the main name I kept on hearing about is Andre Yang...

xtreme news indeed...

[Ket]

all i wanna know is why they are asking you for advice :rofl:

How about because I own a PC business and I've worked with PCs for 15 years. Hardware, design, and programming. Oh, and probably because I done some work for Mushkin as well. Now, stop acting like a twat.

[justin.kerr]

Good job FUGGER!
once a cheater, always a cheater, ban em for life= good call. Glad to see this has finally came to a head.

[OhNoes!]

Ban all the cheaters from everywhere please. If someone has to take this hobby as seriously as to resort in cheating, then they really need to take a break from it and get to something else.

Then again, since when has competitive overclocking been fair? :)This. The integrity of a sport (which is what extreme overclocking has become) is only as good as the collective integrity of the people playing it. There are too many flaws at both hardware (modding, flashing) and software (tweaks, drivers) levels, not to mention cherry-picking, to render all competitions null and void. The sport of extreme overclocking has a long to way to go for any competition to be deemed fair, because most top overclockers have too many advantages coming into any competition, and unless it takes such stupid mistakes like Andre, Hiwa, and the rest, their dominance of the sport would reign supreme.

[SamHughe]

Sad news for the community. Not defending these guys at all but it kinda shows the level of enthusiasm and drive the members of this community have. I hope this will be a lesson to learn for the rest. You cannot cheat your way to respect, you earn it.

[Monstru]

This is a sad news indeed :(

[BenchZowner]

In addition to SamHughe's post regarding respect:

Respect is hard to earn, and easy to lose.
Play dirty games and be ready to get deep down & dirty.

[spajdr]

Sad day indeed to OCers, but thanks Fugger for swift banhammer action.

[SV1SH]

Actually it's a happy day, we now have less idi0ts in the community.
:toast:

[crash5s]

Well, the liquid cooling section here is now dead. Cathar doesn't post anymore, Martin M isn't involved, and Skinnee is now iced. All the brains are gone.

[BenchZowner]

Well, the liquid cooling section here is now dead. Cathar doesn't post anymore, Martin M isn't involved, and Skinnee is now iced. All the brains are gone.

That's an offense to the other members, and once again, they're not the only ones with knowledge and experience.

[Chumbucket843]

That's an offense to the other members, and once again, they're not the only ones with knowledge and experience.

this is true. a lot of people in the LC section are experts but they are very quiet. now that skinnee is gone someone else will fill his spot, not as a cheater but a WB tester/reviewer.

[crash5s]

That's an offense to the other members, and once again, they're not the only ones with knowledge and experience.

Not really. Nobody else threw out the amount of testing or data they did. Even if someone was to try and start up today, they wouldn't have the equipment or connections to actually do it.

To make matters worse the various fights that have gone on in that section, and the subsequent pissing contests involved have taken their toll.

Skinnee really was the main contributor.

[RSC]

Well done Fugger.

[Sn0wm@n]

Not really. Nobody else threw out the amount of testing or data they did. Even if someone was to try and start up today, they wouldn't have the equipment or connections to actually do it.

To make matters worse the various fights that have gone on in that section, and the subsequent pissing contests involved have taken their toll.

Skinnee really was the main contributor.


even so ... someone else will come and take that section to a higher notch of awesomeness ... dont you worry ...

[snoro]

Really all those bad comments of skinnee for that ? Yes i will now have no more respect for those guys as overclocker but i will still respect Hiwa as a good memory overclocker and tester and also Skinnee for being one of the last true watercooling tester(with vapor) that still continued to post everyday over here at xtremesystems.

[[XC] Synthetickiller]

You have to ban them. It demonstrates that we here at XS (especially fugger obviously) doesn't support cheating. There's really no option for him, despite what he thinks. It's partly political.

Its sad this goes on. I have don't powerlifting competitions where high school teams destroyed other teams, but decided not to do a national meet because they would fail the drug test. Amazes me people will cheat in any realm to be "the best."

I hope guys fill their shoes. XS is basically my main source for OCing info.

[Bobsama]

Sad to say but cheaters must go. It's one thing to cheat yourself, it's another to cheat others. Hopefully, this'll give seats to other overclockers, especially in these large competitions.

[BenchZowner]

Really all those bad comments of skinnee for that ? Yes i will now have no more respect for those guys as overclocker but i will still respect Hiwa as a good memory overclocker and tester and also Skinnee for being one of the last true watercooling tester(with vapor) that still continued to post everyday over here at xtremesystems.

This might be the case for Skinnee or not, but everybody in general should be careful and not cheat in any way, doing so just wrecks your reputation ( a bit or at all ), and it's not going to be long until somebody accuses you or skinnee as an example of messing with a comparison's / review's results.

[v0dka]

Not really. Nobody else threw out the amount of testing or data they did. Even if someone was to try and start up today, they wouldn't have the equipment or connections to actually do it.

To make matters worse the various fights that have gone on in that section, and the subsequent pissing contests involved have taken their toll.

Skinnee really was the main contributor.

Oh really? LMAO there have been so many knowledgable legends in there in the last five years that I cant even remember them. Stop acting like Skinnee was some kind of oracle.

[Toolius]

Way to go FUGGER !! We are all right behind you !!

ppl forgetting Naekuh ??
he is still around and pretty active ! :)

[[XC] Oj101]

Presidential pardons are given to people worth more to the country out of jail than in. I think skinnee really really deserves a second chance, even if he doesn't regain access to the overclocking section for a year.

Yes, he broke the rules, now every one of you please report yourselves everytime you have broken the speedlimit.

[Splave]

lifetime ban sucks but is necessary, i think hwbot should follow suit

[systemviper]

With all the controversy that has been going on, even back with the gig card fiasco contest where it was suspected people using binned or modified cards, It was made very clear that this was not acceptable to the Overclocking community. Now you can't even believe anything he/A had to say about that too:shakes:


My personal opinion is that we all knew that there was a problem and that people were abusing the system, using there position and knowledge for their own personal benefit and scamming the bulk of the overclocking community which are a good group of people. Now we find out that people that we had mucho respect and are leaders in the Overclocking community are basically scam artists. This is a blow to all of us who try hard to do well in a sport that is just starting to find its way, trying to grow into something respected enjoyed by all, without having these abusers bringing our whole community down.

I think it's because of WHO they are that the punishment FITS, if they were not PRETENDING to be valuable and honest leaders or our community then who knows, but we have looked up to them for their knowledge, leadership and guidance as we all try to grow our sport.

I am so disgusted and disappointed, and i stand behind Fugger, he had the balls to make the tough decisions and i believe he is one of the main driving forces in the overclocking world.

We back you FUGGER with what every you do! :up:

[[XC] gomeler]

:up:

[Sparky]

Skinnee? Really? what the heck were you thinking doing that dude... :shakes:

Didn't think he'd be one to do that at all.

[Sam_oslo]

lifetime ban sucks but is necessary, i think hwbot should follow suit

It's OK to ban people for a period to give a lesson to cheaters and prevent others, but I personally am against capital punishment and death sentence. There is always possibilities for mistakes and misunderstandings, who is going to make sure the death sentence was just and right?

People should get a good punishment for cheating, but they should get a chance to do better next time too.

[v0dka]

Yes, he broke the rules, now every one of you please report yourselves everytime you have broken the speedlimit.

Apples and oranges. And I think you know it.

Yes I know Skinnee as a good guy too but that doenst change anything.

[Utnorris]

I agree that cheating is not good at all. And it should be punished no matter what. But i also find lifetime ban or anything similar a little to harsh for anyone. Its not like he killed someone. He should get a second chance to prove sorry for his action whoever he is. There are some ppl that learn from their mistakes!

They may learn from the mistake and not do it again or they may learn how to do it and not get caught, there is no way to tell. The real issue is now how many results will come into question from the past and going forward because of this. It isn't simply about someone getting caught cheating once, but rather how many times have individuals gotten away with it in the past. The only one of the group I know somewhat is Skinnee and it surprises me that he was involved, but it does prove how tempting this can be. While I might believe that some individuals would learn from this in a positive way, I think the lifetime ban is fair. For those feeling "Well they didn't kill someone, so the ban is harsh", the reality is that they get sponsorships and free gear because of their status in the overclocking community. So while they may not have "killed someone" they did in effect steal something from someone else and this is why I feel the ban is fair.

I will say that I am disappointed that this happened since as I stated this brings into question all results from the past and going forward not just from these individuals, but from everyone. The trust in the system has been broken and it may be awhile before everyone truly trusts the results and the leader board going forward.

[[XC] Oj101]

Apples and oranges. And I think you know it.

Yes I know Skinnee as a good guy too but that doenst change anything.

Disagree, he was our most valuable member in the watercooling forum.

[Hondacity]

even so ... someone else will come and take that section to a higher notch of awesomeness ... dont you worry ...

xtreme enthusiasm!:up:

Vapor will continue cpu block testing i hope:up:

[Hell Hound]

Stop saying that one person is more valuable than the other.

[El Mano]

The whole OC scene is based on trust.
When somebody posts his achievments we trust he is not lying to us.
When somebody says that he knows a certain Vcore is safe because he has tested it, we trust him.
Think of how many people who have little knowledge and experience trust what they read and risk their hard-earned rigs.

Perhaps a lifetime punishment is too hard... but I can't find any other way to defend our hobby

[Sn0wm@n]

Yes, he broke the rules, now every one of you please report yourselves everytime you have broken the speedlimit.



great argument... and i am being sarcastic



Stop saying that one person is more valuable than the other.


this

[Metroid]

Lifetime ban is harsh, 1 year is too short, 5 to 10 years ban would be what I would do. People need to take into consideration that this may not be first time.

[Kuroimaho]

Well people who go this far should get their priorities checked so a ban could actually be good for them as well not just the community.

[Leeghoofd]

I hope some persons/people here, by many acclaimed as a superhero, would first look into the mirror. No need to write a name(s), we know what you did... now don't act as a saint...

No idea how you can live with it dude... and really got no clue why some big guys even back you up...

[Etihtsarom]

Well this isn't much relevant but what's the big deal with banning? I come here and read the news all the time, but if I was banned, I could just read on other websites? (Speaking of which, hardware news are a little slower to pop up on xs than they are elsewhere)

[El Gappo]

Well this isn't much relevant but what's the big deal with banning? I come here and read the news all the time, but if I was banned, I could just read on other websites? (Speaking of which, hardware news are a little slower to pop up on xs than they are elsewhere)

They weren't here to read the news :rolleyes:

[halfwaythere]

Irony:



ppl like them should be ban everywhere not just on HWBOT.
one day it was a hobby play hardware, nowadays it's a bussiness for manufactories.

a lot of Cheaters around a lot of fake

[dejanh]

Well, the only person I care about is Skinnee b/c of involvement in the H2O cooling community...but seriously WTF? I'm not surprised though the least bit and I do not doubt for a second that if you started looking at many of these competitions way back you would find some serious cheating going on all over the place by probably some of the most prominent names in the circle.

Having said that, why Skinnee would ruin a good thing in the WC community so that he can win a couple of bucks or some free swag? Well that's just mind boggling to me. People are so greedy now-days.

[Leeghoofd]

Vapor or co can post skinnee's result for sure... and he's still got the webbie doesn't he...

[Calmatory]

Forget about Skinnee. He is gone for good. :)

[Kal-EL]

Vapor or co can post skinnee's result for sure... and he's still got the webbie doesn't he...

If the dudes are capable of lying and cheating for obserdly stupid reasons, whats to stop them from scewing a review in the direction of the most generous company?

I'm sorry but, detailed, decorated and well spoken are also the qualities of a damned good liar. With all the toolerant minds I've seen so far, its no wonder the wool gets pulled over the eyes so much these days.

[Leeghoofd]

Don't think you are gonna waste years of hard work for a free CPU waterblock man... most of the reviewers are getting similar results, I still have trust in Skinnee's review capabilities. This was another matter that I can only describe as G R E E D

[Movieman]

I'm not defending anyone as I dislike this as much as any of you do but there is no need for this "feeding frenzy" that I see taking place here.

[dejanh]

Don't think you are gonna waste years of hard work for a free CPU waterblock man... most of the reviewers are getting similar results, I still have trust in Skinnee's review capabilities. This was another matter that I can only describe as G R E E D

:up:

[WrigleyVillain]

even so ... someone else will come and take that section to a higher notch of awesomeness ... dont you worry ...

I hope so cause I sure as hell ain't browsing RRR.

I just threw up in my mouth a little.

[[XC] gomeler]

Carry on as usual :up: Let's keep the derailment to a minimum though.

[BenchZowner]

Good job Chris, very good job.

[[XC] gomeler]

Good job Chris, very good job.

Are you really such a :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana: in person or are you just a keyboard warrior? All I've seen lately from you is a bunch of barking across multiple forums. Now, I can't decide if your post is an attempt to circumvent the language filter or just really terrible spelling. Let me think about it a bit and get back to you. Anything further you have to say to me can be carried out in PM.

[GeorgeStorm]

It's pathetic really :/
Everyone who keeps moaning about skinnee, he shouldn't have done it, and he shouldn't be allowed to get away with it just cos he contributes a lot.
He still broke the rules same as the others.

[vasgto]

:shrug: So.... It's okay to "disable post processing" in a benchmark and win a contest... AND NOT GET BANNED because the rules weren't specific... :shrug:

But, as far as I can tell... Did Andre actually cheat with any of HIS submissions? If not, why is HE banned?

Yeah, if the case of hardware sharing/selling is true then ofcourse he should have known better... but then again, if you "disable post processing" in a benchmark you should also know better...

It may seem like I'm an Andre Fanboy, but that's not the case here... I'm just stating what I believe to be the facts from reading archives in various forums. ;)

[GeorgeStorm]

He is banned cos he shared scores? Thats the rule he broke.

[Polizei]

I wonder what Vapor has to say as far as skinnee's results when it comes the reviews.

[Movieman]

gomeler;4481170']Are you really such a :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana: in person or are you just a keyboard warrior? All I've seen lately from you is a bunch of barking across multiple forums. Now, I can't decide if your post is an attempt to circumvent the language filter or just really terrible spelling. Let me think about it a bit and get back to you. Anything further you have to say to me can be carried out in PM.

Deep breath my friend. I didn't see anything negative in what he said and as I told him in a PM a few mins back,I thought some of his posts were excellent in this thread.

[Gamer]

To bad it happend, but there's still another day after every day......

[GeorgeStorm]

I would personally like to hear what Andre has to say for himself
And would very much like to ask him if this has ever occurred before, as he may be more willing to admit now that this has all come out...

[Don_Dan]

Wow, lots of hatred and dirty laundry in this thread.... :shakes:


I'm not defending anyone as I dislike this as much as any of you do but there is no need for this "feeding frenzy" that I see taking place here.

+1

Imho banning is well-deserved for what they did, but why is everyone questioning skinnee's review capabilities now? As this is entirely non-related to this topic.

[WeStSiDePLaYa]

Wow, lots of hatred and dirty laundry in this thread.... :shakes:



+1

Imho banning is well-deserved for what they did, but why is everyone questioning skinnee's review capabilities now? As this is entirely non-related to this topic.

Because it is a mark against his ethics.

He may be a great reviewer. But reviewers need to be trusted. Which he can not be now.

[dejanbinladen]

ok i respect all the names that were band, but there is no excuse whatsoever, but what about those guys who were boughting results ??? who are they ??

good job in investigation by the way, i am sure there are more scores done this way but this another time...

[SKYMTL]

I've been watching this for a while and I think a lot of people's anger is well-placed. However, as the saying goes: "It's only wrong once you get caught". I personally have to wonder how much more of these shenanigans are going on behind the scenes at various levels without being picked up.

This has given a black eye to online overclocking competitions and professional overclocing in general IMO. As such, I think that HWBot and others (props to Charles for doing the right thing) should come down like a ton of bricks here in order to discourage further abuse. The only problem is that nothing really "governs" the online overclocking community per se.

I am not suggesting an outright banning of AY from HWBot....just a zeroing of his points to date. This isn't the type of thing which can be let slide or be handled with a simple slap on the wrist. Then again, he has contributed massively to the community as a whole so factoring in his past help and aid growing the OCing community is needed.


Imho banning is well-deserved for what they did, but why is everyone questioning skinnee's review capabilities now? As this is entirely non-related to this topic.

Skinnee's reviews shouldn't be held in contempt in any way, shape or form. I will agree with you on that one. What we have is a questioning of objectivity over something completely unrelated which shouldn't be done.

[knopflerbruce]

I don't really have time to read through every post on this subject here, but if the guy who shared the scores gets a lifetime ban, I assume the ones who actually published them get the same penalty?

[Bodar]

Bummerness all around :(

[Gautam]

The others won't be banned for long.

[stangracin3]

i wonder what kingpin is thinking.

wasnt andre on his team?

[Kal-EL]

i wonder what kingpin is thinking.

wasnt andre on his team?

I'd reckon he's thinking "ah FECK! damn bone-head, ugh!" :yepp:

[DaRkxFaDeD]

He'll just unbann himself and also get a new FM key? That wont work :(

[WrigleyVillain]

Wow, lots of hatred and dirty laundry in this thread.... :shakes:

Imho banning is well-deserved for what they did, but why is everyone questioning skinnee's review capabilities now? As this is entirely non-related to this topic.

IDK, I see where you and Dave are coming from but people have a right to vent their shock and anger at this outrage. And it's not as though there is a lot of personal attacks and name-calling going on. Though I agree it's probably only fair and prudent to separate this from skinnee's lc work.

[Solid Snake]

WTF.

Andre banned? HIWA banned? :shakes::shakes:

:(

[Vapor]

xtreme enthusiasm!:up:

Vapor will continue cpu block testing i hope:up:Yup, I'm still doing CPU and TIM testing that gets posted on skinneelabs.com (http://skinneelabs.com) :yepp:


Vapor or co can post skinnee's result for sure... and he's still got the webbie doesn't he...If skinnee has a result to post during his ban, I can post it here (GTX480 reviews will be done shortly--all the data level stuff is done, just the actual writing of reviews is left). And of course he can post his own tests and reviews on the site he owns :)


If the dudes are capable of lying and cheating for obserdly stupid reasons, whats to stop them from scewing a review in the direction of the most generous company?

I'm sorry but, detailed, decorated and well spoken are also the qualities of a damned good liar. With all the toolerant minds I've seen so far, its no wonder the wool gets pulled over the eyes so much these days.skinneelabs has never received payment for any of our tests or reviews. Per FCC rules, full disclosure is required for what financial stake or benefit reviewers/bloggers have regarding what the review materials. skinneelabs has complied the entire time by stating in the review what was received and from where and has never received more than review material hardware.

The value of review hardware received vs. time consumed testing, writing, etc. makes minimum wage look generous. And then when the testing and writing is done, almost all of the hardware goes and sits in a closet waiting to be tested again later against newer products or with improved test equipment.

100% of the results on skinneelabs.com are unaltered, non-manipulated, unbiased, and clean. Uploading and taking credit for a 3DMark06 score that wasn't his is the only time I've ever skinnee have a lapse in judgement--unfortunately it was a huge lapse in judgement with huge repercussions.


The others won't be banned for long.+1

The 1 year ban is an HWBot ban....the ban on XS is significantly shorter for all but Andre.

[El Gappo]

The 1 year ban is an HWBot ban....the ban on XS is significantly shorter for all but Andre.

Why? :down:

[Origin_Unknown]

Quite interesting - good job on the investigation by all involved. It's quite sad that people would stoop so low

[knopflerbruce]

Why? :down:

I ask myself the same question - what Andre did was definately bad, but the guys who received the scores are the ones who actually posted them and created the whole thing. They did have at least two chances to stop this nonsense - either by not accepting the scores, or by not uploading them at all.

[Splave]

I ask myself the same question - what Andre did was definately bad, but the guys who received the scores are the ones who actually posted them and created the whole thing. They did have at least two chances to stop this nonsense - either by not accepting the scores, or by not uploading them at all.

This

[ReverendMaynard]

I ask myself the same question - what Andre did was definately bad, but the guys who received the scores are the ones who actually posted them and created the whole thing. They did have at least two chances to stop this nonsense - either by not accepting the scores, or by not uploading them at all.

Possession is 9/10th's of the law, the more I think about this debacle, the more I seem to be pushing the blame on the people who received the score files and submitted them under their own power than AY himself. All he did was provide, he didn't execute. That doesn't make things any better for AY but the punishment should at least be even across the board here, if not, the people who submitted the scores should be given harsher punishment.

[brolloks]

^ Agree ...Selling a licensed gun to a person that goes out to kill someone...the seller is only the provider, the killer is who committed the crime...see the analogy.
Not saying Andre is innocent but the punishment should be across the board and the heaviest on the cheaters

[ARandomOWL]

^ exactly what I was thinking

[Lestat]

Woah... I'm speechless.

I'm not, andre has been cheating the system for as long as i have been here.
i warned people a long time ago on some of his asus board overclocks he was subcooling the northbridge to achieve such insane clocks and he denied it but later came out and said he did. i wasnt the accuser i just heard wind of it and passed it on.

there have been MULTIPLE other documented cases of him blatantly cheating and lieing about it.

once a liar and a cheat always a liar and a cheater


and am speechless that any of you who have been around here long enough are in shock,,, this is a long time coming and about damn time.

good riddance, all he did was inflate hardware sales for the manufacturer for his own personal gain.

now its time we start looking at the people he has been working for and start questioning their results and methods.

and YES the guys involved are just as dirty and scandalous as Andre and they deserve the same fate he does.. period.

[Leeghoofd]

DARN THE SHARK IS BACK FROM THE DEEP; lo Lestat

[OhNoes!]

Ahem, I can hear a pin drop.
The last few posts highlight wht I'm sure is at the back of the mind of most posters - the seemingly disproportionate penalty, as far as XS is concerned. All the guys involved are grown men, so it's not like an adult serving alcohol to a kid, though they'd both receive proportionate "consequences" when caught. So why such extremely skewed punishment? Somebody, please save us the work of reading through posting histories, hehe.


DARN THE SHARK IS BACK FROM THE DEEP; lo LestatI know, right? The proverbial pot vs kettle.

[El Gappo]

Ahem, I can hear a pin drop.
The last few posts highlight wht I'm sure is at the back of the mind of most posters - the seemingly disproportionate penalty, as far as XS is concerned. All the guys involved are grown men, so it's not like an adult serving alcohol to a kid, though they'd both receive proportionate "consequences" when caught. So why such extremely skewed punishment? Somebody, please save us the work of reading through posting histories, hehe.

Lets sum it up.

"BAN BAN BAN BAN"

"ARHHHHH but he was such a nice guy he would never cheat. He posted in the water cooling section all the time :("

"Ok lets just ban that guy and hit all the others with this little ban hammer to make it seem fair"

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/29/Toffee_Hammer.JPG/220px-Toffee_Hammer.JPG


:shrug:

[Solus Corvus]

I think tolerating or being lenient with some individuals about cheating sends the wrong message. That with the right connections, reputation, etc you can cheat and get off easier. Sure, it's sad to lose some very valuable individuals, but it's not like they didn't know that there could be serious consequences when they decided to engage in it.

IMO, lifetime bans for all. On HWBOT too.

[saaya]

huh? :confused:
does anybody know WHY andre would want to mess with the competition? :confused:

andre has never taken rules all that seriously, so i can imagine that he did something like this to cause some trouble, prove a point, or just for fun...
but hiwa? skinee? using andres scores? that makes no sense at all to me...

btw george, you patting andre on the back and calling him a good guy, wow :D
now ive seen it all ^^

[kromosto]

I'm not, andre has been cheating the system for as long as i have been here.
i warned people a long time ago on some of his asus board overclocks he was subcooling the northbridge to achieve such insane clocks and he denied it but later came out and said he did. i wasnt the accuser i just heard wind of it and passed it on.

there have been MULTIPLE other documented cases of him blatantly cheating and lieing about it.

once a liar and a cheat always a liar and a cheater


and am speechless that any of you who have been around here long enough are in shock,,, this is a long time coming and about damn time.

good riddance, all he did was inflate hardware sales for the manufacturer for his own personal gain.

now its time we start looking at the people he has been working for and start questioning their results and methods.

and YES the guys involved are just as dirty and scandalous as Andre and they deserve the same fate he does.. period.

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

[Movieman]

Lets sum it up.

"BAN BAN BAN BAN"

"ARHHHHH but he was such a nice guy he would never cheat. He posted in the water cooling section all the time :("

"Ok lets just ban that guy and hit all the others with this little ban hammer to make it seem fair"

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/29/Toffee_Hammer.JPG/220px-Toffee_Hammer.JPG


:shrug:
Now this is just my personal opinion but I think the reasoning behind Andre being banned forever from XS while the others get a lighter " penalty" has to do with all the individuals being looked at from a wider perspective.
Andre's name has come up more than once but not the others.
Is this fair or right? Maybe, maybe not. Depends in how you want to see this.
I'm not saying I totally agree as I can make good arguments from both perspectives but I can undertsand why Charles did what he did.

[Splave]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/29/Toffee_Hammer.JPG/220px-Toffee_Hammer.JPG


sorry for OT but, what kinda ban hammer says toffee on it? I acutally lol'd

[charlie]

it all goes back to the corporate overclockers... the "connected" overclockers. They ruin the hobby. If someone sites down with a tray of ES processors and unreleased gear and blows up the HWBOT... who cares?

Look back at the "golden years" of OC'ing... the early to mid 2000's. You had NORMAL people running down to the closest Fry's electronics and having screenshots by that night... competition was tight because everyone was basically using the same gear, same cooling, same methods...

[[XC] gomeler]

sorry for OT but, what kinda ban hammer says toffee on it? I acutally lol'd

A tasty one?

[Xoulz]

:shock2:

I've met Andre and he is a nice guy... sorry to hear about this. Lifetime?



err.. can't we all just smoke some weed and get along?

[El Gappo]

It's a toffee hammer for smashing toffee :D

I see your point MM but wouldn't Andre of been banned straight off the bat if he had been caught outright like this the first time?

Just because he did it better doesn't mean the others didn't have the same intentions and wont continue to do so.

[Hondacity]

@el gappo

NCspecv81 16th post in your thread. Was that photoshopped? or TheGoat_Eater did message him that?

[Sniper]

Andre should be punished harder because of his position as a leaer of hwbot and connections with hw dealers etc.
And Saaya and all of you guys who knowns each others by personal name, could you please use their nick names insteed so others can follow ?

[Leeghoofd]

I know, right? The proverbial pot vs kettle.

Compelte Off topic reply : just look at lestat's Avatar. There's the Shark :p Don't look for anything in there, it's just an avatar and Lestat can bite ferociously too :p

[antiacid]

I'm sorry if I'm not quite crying and being all sad about this debacle.

To me, OC contests are pissing contests. A bunch of dudes get together and see who gets the luckiest with equipment. Sharing results is of course a dumb thing to do (it just shows how un-mature this scene is, that something like this is even possible). However, there's two problems with these bans: First, nothing prevents them from submitting results again through a proxy (not just the technology, also a proxy person) and getting "glory" like that. Second, I think that it shows the limitation of these types of competition to a point where other people might just be turned off from competitive overclocking. I mean, seriously, one dude with a single setup ends up getting winning positions in 3 different countries...wtf? Do they not have good players over there at all? Is the competition so weak that perhaps there shouldn't even be this kind of event at all, yet? It makes the entire "competitive overclocking" scene look weak and uninteresting. At that point, it would've been better for the entire scene to just pretend like this didn't happen, fix the competition format, get more people involved, attain critical mass, then actually start policing the scene properly, when it actually matters.

Now that bans are out, dirty laundry has been cleaned in public (for who's best interest again?) and people have commented, we can already see the negative backlash going in obvious directions (i.e. these guys must have cheated on everything they ever did, therefore nobody can trust their reviews anymore...right...)

Anyway, it's not like the guys made up fake scores, those were actually legit results from one guy who couldn't be bothered to get all the fame (lol?) to himself. If anything, it is such a small storm in a glass of water that I doubt anybody is going to care by next week. Those who will remember, I can count using my fingers.

[SamHughe]

Don't wanna sound like I'm defending him but, shouldn't Andre be given a chance to explain himself? Did anybody talk to him about this? Is he forward about what he did or is he in denial?

[charlie]

what's next? Futuremark engineers giving out secret hacks to their friends? OC'ing as a hobby relies on the trust that ALL are on a level playing field.

You know something? Sometimes the better OC'er doesn't win. Sometimes it's dumb luck and the guy with the golden CPU wins. That's how it SHOULD be.

level.

playing.

field.

[Movieman]

It's a toffee hammer for smashing toffee :D

I see your point MM but wouldn't Andre of been banned straight off the bat if he had been caught outright like this the first time?

Just because he did it better doesn't mean the others didn't have the same intentions and wont continue to do so.

Picture this scenario:
Over the course of a few years a certain individual's name comes up with different allegations.. Never any hard proof but it smells.
Then you get this come up and your the one making the decision on what to do and have that information on all those other "incidents"
Now you have the pattern and all the other times make sense to you.
I'm not saying this is what happenned but it makes sense to me.

[El Gappo]

@el gappo

NCspecv81 16th post in your thread. Was that photoshopped? or TheGoat_Eater did message him that?

I believe spec messaged that to him.

[zsamz_]

I'm not, andre has been cheating the system for as long as i have been here.
i warned people a long time ago on some of his asus board overclocks he was subcooling the northbridge to achieve such insane clocks and he denied it but later came out and said he did. i wasnt the accuser i just heard wind of it and passed it on.

there have been MULTIPLE other documented cases of him blatantly cheating and lieing about it.

once a liar and a cheat always a liar and a cheater


and am speechless that any of you who have been around here long enough are in shock,,, this is a long time coming and about damn time.

good riddance, all he did was inflate hardware sales for the manufacturer for his own personal gain.

now its time we start looking at the people he has been working for and start questioning their results and methods.

and YES the guys involved are just as dirty and scandalous as Andre and they deserve the same fate he does.. period.

+1
the game been gettin real dirty for the past 2 years
people bendin over for a few $ free hw or a job:down:

[biohead]

it all goes back to the corporate overclockers... the "connected" overclockers. They ruin the hobby. If someone sites down with a tray of ES processors and unreleased gear and blows up the HWBOT... who cares?

Look back at the "golden years" of OC'ing... the early to mid 2000's. You had NORMAL people running down to the closest Fry's electronics and having screenshots by that night... competition was tight because everyone was basically using the same gear, same cooling, same methods...

completely agree with you there charlie. "professional" overclocking ruins it for everyone else. LOL UP NEXT QUAD-SLI GTX480 with DDR3-9000 SRY4ENGRISH:up:!!!

[FatAlbert]

Don't wanna sound like I'm defending him but, shouldn't Andre be given a chance to explain himself? Did anybody talk to him about this? Is he forward about what he did or is he in denial?

Probably if Andre want to explain himself, imo, he probably get a chance or he could send a message to one of his friend here who could put it here. Simply. If he don't want, imo again, it's not our business.

[brolloks]

Maybe they should not have banned them immediately and put "I'm a Cheater" across their avatar and then ban them a few days later.

http://i29.tinypic.com/3v77s.jpg

[PaganII]

Maybe they should not have banned them immediately and put "Beware Cheater" across their avatar and then ban them a few days later.


Scarlet Letter? (it is an old book/ movie)
New color for screen name?

I haven't been around long enough to know these guys but their offense may lead to the kind of stuff Intel was guilty of. Bad for the industry.

[zanzabar]

Scarlet Letter? (it is an old book/ movie)
New color for screen name?

I haven't been around long enough to know these guys but their offense may lead to the kind of stuff Intel was guilty of. Bad for the industry.

i dont know about intel only, evga gives out a bunch of 480gtx to their preferred benchers/employees who bench giving them a $2500+ advantage from having all good clocking cards, intel dose the ES chips and unlocked dual qpi xeons for the sr2, gigabyte gave out ES 58xx for their competion to their benchers that clocked way better than their retail. this has all been going on with people benching non retail stuff and thats kinda like cheating. but sharing scores is soemthing that may not be bad, i know that there are rules and if u just give some1 a score to post thats wrong but when u have people combining hardware in a set of bench runs i would find it hard to only give 1 person on a team credit, especially if they were all different runs. i dont think that it happened like that but i would like to hear what went on.

what happened to benchzoner was he in this also

[Harshal]

Rather unfortunate for OC community.

Charles and others :clap:
That is a big step in restoring OC pride :up:

[Utnorris]

it all goes back to the corporate overclockers... the "connected" overclockers. They ruin the hobby. If someone sites down with a tray of ES processors and unreleased gear and blows up the HWBOT... who cares?

Look back at the "golden years" of OC'ing... the early to mid 2000's. You had NORMAL people running down to the closest Fry's electronics and having screenshots by that night... competition was tight because everyone was basically using the same gear, same cooling, same methods...

This is what has made overclocking not so fun anymore. It sucks working 4-5 hours straight with gear you had to buy, trade for, beg or borrow and find out you are at a huge disadvantage because you don't get a board before it's released or a tray full of chips to sift through for the best one. Average Joe can run down and by the latest GPU, spend hours upon hours tweaking with no hope of getting into the top 10 much less the number one spot because he/she didn't have any connections and deep pockets to get the right gear. Personally, I think you should have to post a receipt from a retailer when you submit a score showing the gear wasn't given to you unless it was a manufacture sponsored overclocking competition where everyone gets the same gear. It's like Nascar, everyone gets the same cars and can tweak them within the rules, but it comes down to the skill of the individual on who wins the race. Overclocking competitions have been corrupted by greed and have actually done more damage than good because of the sponsorships by Corporate (name your country) trying to get people to buy their gear in the hopes they can pull off some massive score. So much so that good people are setting aside their ethics and integrity to be at the top of a list and reap the rewards that come with it. I like to overclock and bench, but I have no allusions that my score will ever make it to the top since I do not have the resources or support to make it. When you think about it, it's pretty discouraging.

[BeepBeep2]

Maybe they should not have banned them immediately and put "I'm a Cheater" across their avatar and then ban them a few days later.

http://i29.tinypic.com/3v77s.jpg

Disable their signatures (Or make them say "I cheated", "I'm a cheater" under username, disable avatar, make name heading poop brown. :ROTF:

[Don_Dan]

IDK, I see where you and Dave are coming from but people have a right to vent their shock and anger at this outrage. And it's not as though there is a lot of personal attacks and name-calling going on. Though I agree it's probably only fair and prudent to separate this from skinnee's lc work.

Let me get this straight, don't think I'm posting this as a member of the Xtreme 3D Team, I'm only posting my own point of view. Having said that I was probably a LOT angrier than most of you guys because he was/is a member of my team. Risking his reputation with those actions was a very foolish thing to do. Do the crime, do the time. :shakes:

All I'm calling for is some moderation, I see many guys demanding life-time ban on XS and hwbot. Let me remind you guys that there are a few guys posting at hwbot that have been accused of cheating in the past and yet they are back in business again.

Just my 2 c.

[mrcape]

Contests suck.

[Gautam]

it all goes back to the corporate overclockers... the "connected" overclockers. They ruin the hobby. If someone sites down with a tray of ES processors and unreleased gear and blows up the HWBOT... who cares?

Look back at the "golden years" of OC'ing... the early to mid 2000's. You had NORMAL people running down to the closest Fry's electronics and having screenshots by that night... competition was tight because everyone was basically using the same gear, same cooling, same methods...

FWIW, our score here took A LOT of $$$...including one (expensive) retail chip...when I think about it, probably more than the prizes even including the plane tix are worth.

[Oliver]

wickedness.

nothing about money, but shared result.

Mistake is done and they are still good benchers.

[Mean Machine]

wickedness.

nothing about money, but shared result.

Mistake is done and they are still good benchers.

And you're not going to end with "keep pushing it" this time, huh? :D

[massman]

You know something? Sometimes the better OC'er doesn't win. Sometimes it's dumb luck and the guy with the golden CPU wins. That's how it SHOULD be.

THIS.

IS.

WHAT.

PEOPLE.

NEED.

TO.

UN-DER-STAND.

:up:

[Brian y.]

And you're not going to end with "keep pushing it" this time, huh? :D
I think Oliver saw that for the first time it was pushed too far....

[xguntherc]

Sad to see them go, skinnee has been a great part of the community and very helpful to me in the past weeks.

hmm.. interesting story. Not smart guys. You're real skills were plenty. You shouldn't have got greedy guys

[M.Beier]

I'm sorry if I'm not quite crying and being all sad about this debacle.

To me, OC contests are pissing contests. A bunch of dudes get together and see who gets the luckiest with equipment.*1 Sharing results is of course a dumb thing to do (it just shows how un-mature this scene is, that something like this is even possible). However, there's two problems with these bans: First, nothing prevents them from submitting results again through a proxy (not just the technology, also a proxy person) and getting "glory" like that.*2 Second, I think that it shows the limitation of these types of competition to a point where other people might just be turned off from competitive overclocking. I mean, seriously, one dude with a single setup ends up getting winning positions in 3 different countries...wtf? Do they not have good players over there at all?*3 Is the competition so weak that perhaps there shouldn't even be this kind of event at all, yet? It makes the entire "competitive overclocking" scene look weak and uninteresting. At that point, it would've been better for the entire scene to just pretend like this didn't happen, fix the competition format, get more people involved, attain critical mass, then actually start policing the scene properly, when it actually matters.

Now that bans are out, dirty laundry has been cleaned in public (for who's best interest again?) and people have commented, we can already see the negative backlash going in obvious directions (i.e. these guys must have cheated on everything they ever did, therefore nobody can trust their reviews anymore...right...)

Anyway, it's not like the guys made up fake scores, those were actually legit results from one guy who couldn't be bothered to get all the fame (lol?) to himself. If anything, it is such a small storm in a glass of water that I doubt anybody is going to care by next week. Those who will remember, I can count using my fingers.*4

1* Ok, there is no skills involved, especially not in live events :ROTF:
Cmon, you are kidding no one.... Luck, overclocking, optimizing/tweaking, and scheduling time all required for live contests

2* You underestimate the value of a clean reputation... Its obviously more then a hobby for some; a lifestyle, a path... Any idea how much time it takes to make as many benchmarks as these guys do?
Technical limits isnt the problem, rather the goal is unacheivable if the rest of us wont like it....

3* Screening is a massive problem.... Now this is only hypotherical; but, what if AndreYang actually had an industry selling results? making money on cheating... I dont know, I honestly dont think so.... But do you consider it luck when buying 200 pieces of all hardware and testing all of it? Have you ever heard about "statistic"????

4* Congratulations, you just informed everyone that you are on the wrong forum :up:


THIS.

IS.

WHAT.

PEOPLE.

NEED.

TO.

UN-DER-STAND.

:up:

Pieter, is this what you try to convince yourself since I am still ahead in competing against you? :rofl: :p:

[Leeghoofd]

Pieter, is this what you try to convince yourself since I am still ahead in competing against you? :rofl: :p:

It depends on how you look at the rankings :rofl: Silly Marc

[G.Foyle]

Many of you guys may not like him, but deeply he's a proud and good man.... :)
Wasnt that the case for OPB too? Still we're better off without him.

[Jaco]

Can't we give him a 25 year XS ban ?
We'll see if he changed his ways afterwards and if necessary extend the ban:rofl:

[chew*]

it all goes back to the corporate overclockers... the "connected" overclockers. They ruin the hobby. If someone sites down with a tray of ES processors and unreleased gear and blows up the HWBOT... who cares?

Look back at the "golden years" of OC'ing... the early to mid 2000's. You had NORMAL people running down to the closest Fry's electronics and having screenshots by that night... competition was tight because everyone was basically using the same gear, same cooling, same methods...

Sorry charlie but then is really no different than now. The same :banana::banana::banana::banana: went on back then. The only difference between now and then is people are actually aware of it now.

[zads]

what's next? Futuremark engineers giving out secret hacks to their friends? OC'ing as a hobby relies on the trust that ALL are on a level playing field.

You know something? Sometimes the better OC'er doesn't win. Sometimes it's dumb luck and the guy with the golden CPU wins. That's how it SHOULD be.

level.

playing.

field.

I never really understood the reason for contests and overclocking competitions..

I'm sure Charles must have taken it personally because he also participates in these competitions,

but I see XS as an informational forum..
shouldn't they just be banned from XS sponsored competitions, events, etc?

I'm sure those who are disappointed by this turn of events will just take any posts from these users along with a grain of salt.

[tajoh111]

I see the reason for the banning, but I don't think Andre Yang is a cheater as much as those that got the scores from him. He's probably the most hardcore out there. He buys crap loads of chips and test them and uses alot of non sponsored hardware. Out of the leader board on HWbot I remember someone saying, he spends as much as the whole top ten combined.

Andre Yang is still a skilled overclocker, when guys like shamino, george and vince respect him, he's completely legit. But the people that used his scores are definitely cheaters and didn't deserve to be in the place they were on the leader board.

This is way different than OPB who just wanted the fame and the free hardware associated with it. Andre already had the skills and the fame and the free hardware. This type of cheating didn't get him more hardware or more money or more fame. In a way, he was just giving his stuff to other people. He was giving others his work and letting them use it. Its sad and pathetic on both parts, but for some reason, from what George's has said because he met the guy, I think Andre is a very lonely man, who wanted some attention using the wrong ways.

Out of everyone, I think he's the most hardcore in regards to overclocking.

[naokaji]

I never really understood the reason for contests and overclocking competitions..


Invent something that can be measured and people will start competing with each other, who has the bigger stamp collection, who has the better looking garden, who has the fastest car, who has the highest score in a benchmark, competing has been in human nature since the dawn of time.

[charlie]

Sorry charlie but then is really no different than now. The same :banana::banana::banana::banana: went on back then. The only difference between now and then is people are actually aware of it now.

I didn't see it til about 2004, 2005-ish. There was REALLY something magically innocent about those Athlon XP and P4 days....

I remember how back in the day... I saw a guy on ebay with an FX-51 before they were in stores. Maybe a week before they were in stores... so I drove down to Los Angeles to meet the guy at some Cafe to do the deal, lol... the benchies I posted were probably/close to the first FX-51/940 benchies on XS. Nowadays... anand, XS, et al... would have posted pre-production benchies a month before the public saw them.

And I remember the boards, lol... the SK8N and the SK8V from Asus. They were like IMPOSSIBLE to find. That was the good old days... when ANYONE could make a splash without corporate ties.

[Oliver]

I think Oliver saw that for the first time it was pushed too far....Thanks Brian :up:

[damha]

..

Things don't stink without reason. And whatever it is, its definitely many times stronger now.

That's what happens when corporations stick their hands in anything, don't expect it to stay clean for long.

Corporations only understand one thing: can we get away with it?

Andre is probably innocent at the individual level. As innocent as any soldier doing his job.

I think the right decision was made @ XS, but the situation was not handled correctly. Don't yell "FIRE!" in a full theater...

People have reputations to protect and we don't want to be advocates of smearing campaigns.

[resident1509]

They should also ban anyone who works for or is affiliated with HWbot if they are trying to clean it up.

[Planet]

They should also ban anyone who works for or is affiliated with HWbot if they are trying to clean it up.

They should ban anybody named Nick who works for company XXXX :D

[resident1509]

Last time I checked, it wasn't a requirement to disclose who you work for. I have never promoted any product either while there are plenty of others here that have without disclosing. :rofl:

[uncle fester]

He's probably the most hardcore out there. He buys crap loads of chips and test them and uses alot of non sponsored hardware. Out of the leader board on HWbot
I remember someone saying, he spends as much as the whole top ten combined.


sorry but what a load of crap



Andre Yang is still a skilled overclocker, when guys like shamino, george and vince respect him, he's completely legit. But the people that used his scores are definitely cheaters and didn't deserve to be in the place they were on the leader board.


this just proves what little you know



This is way different than OPB who just wanted the fame and the free hardware associated with it. Andre already had the skills and the fame and the free hardware. This type of cheating didn't get him more hardware or more money or more fame. In a way, he was just giving his stuff to other people. He was giving others his work and letting them use it. Its sad and pathetic on both parts, but for some reason, from what George's has said because he met the guy, I think Andre is a very lonely man, who wanted some attention using the wrong ways.


No he was giving his friends the advantage , taking away hard work from other people that tried.



Out of everyone, I think he's the most hardcore in regards to overclocking.

Totally disagree there are many others given the opportunity and money andre had would be alot more skilled.

[Kingcarcas]

Funny stuff, all over silly little 3dmarks?

[Sadasius]

You know I have yet to see a competition where nobody cheats. I am not saying it is right but motive is there to win and sometimes at all cost. Even myself when I competed in bodybuilding contests I used various...'cheats' to get in the top 3 all the time. Mind you if I was to get caught I would get trashed and it's not because of the cheats I used but for being stupid enough to get caught. Cheating is wrong but as I said when there is motive like new parts and a trip then yeah I am surprised only a few got caught. I will not look down on these people as I am sure they learned their lesson and cannot wait for them to come back. Especially Skinnee because he has tests to finish up for the LC section that I am interested in.

[570091D]

Funny stuff, all over silly little 3dmarks?

maybe silly to you, but there are million dollar business built around the overclocking community and these competitions keep the community together and moving forward. a LOT of people take this seriously because it's their livelyhood, anyone caught cheeting MULTIPLE TIMES should be banned. permenantly. :down:

[Movieman]

Funny stuff, all over silly little 3dmarks?

No, it's about Honor my friend, not a benchmark..

[zalbard]

People should be given a second chance imo, at least non-repetitive offenders. Glad that the ban isn't permanent for everyone.
Everything from 1 month to 1 year sounds justified to me.
They might realise their mistakes after a while.

[antiacid]

1* Ok, there is no skills involved, especially not in live events :ROTF:
Cmon, you are kidding no one.... Luck, overclocking, optimizing/tweaking, and scheduling time all required for live contests

I come from a background of competitive sports (say, 12+ years of world cup level, top 3 best in my country at what I did). Let me tell you this: live overclocking events have got NOTHING on well established sports live events. Sure, my gear could break or fail and it would cost me a win, but for OC, you're 100% dependant on gear. Many MANY posters here have commented that corporations feed top 1% binned chips and cards to their top OC champions. How is that more fair than say, AndreYang picking his binned chip and giving away the result to someone else? It isn't.


2* You underestimate the value of a clean reputation... Its obviously more then a hobby for some; a lifestyle, a path... Any idea how much time it takes to make as many benchmarks as these guys do?
Technical limits isnt the problem, rather the goal is unacheivable if the rest of us wont like it....

This is the internet. We use online profiles that don't always correspond with who we are in meatspace. I'm not placed to judge anyone about what's an acceptable lifestyle but I will allow myself this comment: if you get so pissed off at some person that you've never even seen face to face over some magic numbers that he may or may not even have created himself, then you need to rethink your "lifestyle". Last I checked, those guys did OC as a sideline, not as a main income source. The associated online reputation means nothing. Tomorrow morning a dude named "AndrewLang" might show up with top10 results and he'd have a following in a matter of hours. Don't overestimate reputations of anyone on the internet.


3* Screening is a massive problem.... Now this is only hypotherical; but, what if AndreYang actually had an industry selling results? making money on cheating... I dont know, I honestly dont think so.... But do you consider it luck when buying 200 pieces of all hardware and testing all of it? Have you ever heard about "statistic"????

Are you saying that he got a leg up because he had top 1% binned stuff at his disposal? Thank you for agreeing with me that this whole "live OC contest" thing is basically BS because of this.


4* Congratulations, you just informed everyone that you are on the wrong forum :up:

Because I don't care about what Joe Schmoe did in his basement with some LN2 and a couple of hours of free time?
I appreciate the effort put into this by enthusiasts around the globe. I appreciate the input I get when I need information regarding "xtreme systems". I don't appreciate it that my hobby is turning into yet another corporate pissing contest, with all associated problems.

Whatever, in the end, I still believe nobody will give a flying poop about this situation for more than a week.

[Movieman]

I come from a background of competitive sports (say, 12+ years of world cup level, top 3 best in my country at what I did). Let me tell you this: live overclocking events have got NOTHING on well established sports live events. Sure, my gear could break or fail and it would cost me a win, but for OC, you're 100% dependant on gear. Many MANY posters here have commented that corporations feed top 1% binned chips and cards to their top OC champions. How is that more fair than say, AndreYang picking his binned chip and giving away the result to someone else? It isn't.

This is the internet. We use online profiles that don't always correspond with who we are in meatspace. I'm not placed to judge anyone about what's an acceptable lifestyle but I will allow myself this comment: if you get so pissed off at some person that you've never even seen face to face over some magic numbers that he may or may not even have created himself, then you need to rethink your "lifestyle". Last I checked, those guys did OC as a sideline, not as a main income source. The associated online reputation means nothing. Tomorrow morning a dude named "AndrewLang" might show up with top10 results and he'd have a following in a matter of hours. Don't overestimate reputations of anyone on the internet.

Are you saying that he got a leg up because he had top 1% binned stuff at his disposal? Thank you for agreeing with me that this whole "live OC contest" thing is basically BS because of this.

Because I don't care about what Joe Schmoe did in his basement with some LN2 and a couple of hours of free time?
I appreciate the effort put into this by enthusiasts around the globe. I appreciate the input I get when I need information regarding "xtreme systems". I don't appreciate it that my hobby is turning into yet another corporate pissing contest, with all associated problems.

Whatever, in the end, I still believe nobody will give a flying poop about this situation for more than a week.

No sarcasm meant but you've missed the whole point of why people are upset.
It is the loss of trust and seeing someone that people admired and respected betray that trust.
All the rest is smoke.

[BeepBeep2]

Overclocking DOES take talent, however overclocking also means you have lots of $$$$. Without the $$$$ you are nothing.

I'm stuck with a bum CPU and it does not go further. I can't even keep up with similar CPU's.

[Mad Pistol]

Geeze, you mean people actually sell overclocks?!?!?!?

What the hell do you have to gain from that? :shakes:

[M.Beier]

Last response to this dialog from my side; wont spend more time defending the obvious that some of us actually do care about overclocking, about benchmarking, and about fairplay.
And as Movieman fine put it; trust and honour..... Also what I would describe as mutual respect.


I come from a background of competitive sports (say, 12+ years of world cup level, top 3 best in my country at what I did). Let me tell you this: live overclocking events have got NOTHING on well established sports live events. Sure, my gear could break or fail and it would cost me a win, but for OC, you're 100% dependant on gear. Many MANY posters here have commented that corporations feed top 1% binned chips and cards to their top OC champions. How is that more fair than say, AndreYang picking his binned chip and giving away the result to someone else? It isn't.
If you can convince yourself about that, then I dont even bother arguing.


IThis is the internet. We use online profiles that don't always correspond with who we are in meatspace. I'm not placed to judge anyone about what's an acceptable lifestyle but I will allow myself this comment: if you get so pissed off at some person that you've never even seen face to face over some magic numbers that he may or may not even have created himself, then you need to rethink your "lifestyle". Last I checked, those guys did OC as a sideline, not as a main income source. The associated online reputation means nothing. Tomorrow morning a dude named "AndrewLang" might show up with top10 results and he'd have a following in a matter of hours. Don't overestimate reputations of anyone on the internet.

Completely none sense.... You have no respect for the passion nor level that it has become.... Alot of people meet at events, this being overclocking events, IT-exhibitions etc.... Again; you are missing the point... AndreYang CANT just make up a new name, because he acheived something, something motivated him, gave him a drive... And likely that was also a social part of it, and it is just a matter of time before getting exposed if using false identity...


IAre you saying that he got a leg up because he had top 1% binned stuff at his disposal? Thank you for agreeing with me that this whole "live OC contest" thing is basically BS because of this.

Online and live ISNT same thing...


IBecause I don't care about what Joe Schmoe did in his basement with some LN2 and a couple of hours of free time?
I appreciate the effort put into this by enthusiasts around the globe. I appreciate the input I get when I need information regarding "xtreme systems". I don't appreciate it that my hobby is turning into yet another corporate pissing contest, with all associated problems.

Well you dont, but ALOT of people on this forum does.... And clearly you have little respect for what we are doing....
We are many that cares what as you so fine put it someone does with LN2 in the basement...


IWhatever, in the end, I still believe nobody will give a flying poop about this situation for more than a week.

Did you read the three letters "OPB" in this thread? I know I did..... Do you have any idea how many weeks ago that was? ;)

[Movieman]

Overclocking DOES take talent, however overclocking also means you have lots of $$$$. Without the $$$$ you are nothing.

I'm stuck with a bum CPU and it does not go further. I can't even keep up with similar CPU's.

In this hobby like all others there are "levels"
The top guys with money and sponsorships bench at the top.
People like you and me bench to what we have or we sit back and learn from the guys at the top..
Have fun with what you own.:up:

[ExodusC]

I have to back Fugger entirely on the bans. There should be a zero tolerance cheating policy. If Fugger did not ban everyone involved, XtremeSystems would lose any and all legitimacy as an overclocking website.

I'm a bit sad to hear some of the cheaters (regardless of that fact that they may be contributing members of the community) won't be getting longer bans. Permanent may be excessive, but if it's just a couple months, that's not enough time, in my opinion.

Unrelated: Charlie, is that a hidden Apple of Eden in your avatar? :)

[SamHughe]

It is the loss of trust and seeing someone that people admired and respected betray that trust.
All the rest is smoke.

I still think these guys should be given a chance address this criticism personally (if they choose to do so). Maybe some hacker stole the results and emailed to the others, maybe a band of pink fairies forced Andre's hands to share results, maybe they are victims of international Overclock Mafia (suspected leader: Movieman) :)
Kidding aside, I really don't feel comfortable to see this pages of bashing without them being able to respond. Don't take me wrong, I would be the first person to call them AS*HOLES! but I'd like to say this to their faces rather than , you know, from behind.

[Movieman]

I still think these guys should be given a chance address this criticism personally (if they choose to do so). Maybe some hacker stole the results and emailed to the others, maybe a band of pink fairies forced Andre's hands to share results, maybe they are victims of international Overclock Mafia (suspected leader: Movieman) :)
Kidding aside, I really don't feel comfortable to see this pages of bashing without them being able to respond. Don't take me wrong, I would be the first person to call them AS*HOLES! but I'd like to say this to their faces rather than , you know, from behind.

I agree, everyone is entitled to defend themself.
The issue here is that skinnee posted and said what happenned,

[BeepBeep2]

I have to back Fugger entirely on the bans. There should be a zero tolerance cheating policy. If Fugger did not ban everyone involved, XtremeSystems would lose any and all legitimacy as an overclocking website.

I'm a bit sad to hear some of the cheaters (regardless of that fact that they may be contributing members of the community) won't be getting longer bans. Permanent may be excessive, but if it's just a couple months, that's not enough time, in my opinion.

Unrelated: Charlie, is that a hidden Apple of Eden in your avatar? :)

I disagree.

Give them a week to explain themselves, and if they are not up to doing that, then ban them or remove all of their rights.

[metro.cl]

This is just sad.

But things like this we could see them coming miles away.

[ExodusC]

I disagree.

Give them a week to explain themselves, and if they are not up to doing that, then ban them or remove all of their rights.
Well, I agree they should be given a chance to explain their actions and apologize, but the fact seems to be that they were cheating. Anyone deserved that.

I'm not saying lifetime ban, that does seem unjust as they still contribute to the community and seem to be well respected in many circles.

Still, the fact of the matter is, they cheated and they should be punished for it.

Whether people choose to trust their scores (and words) in the future, and how scrutinized they will be is entirely up to the community.

[charlie]

Overclocking DOES take talent, however overclocking also means you have lots of $$$$. Without the $$$$ you are nothing.

I'm stuck with a bum CPU and it does not go further. I can't even keep up with similar CPU's.

not true.

if you don't have much $$ then change the class in which you compete :D

You can be an A++ Sempron overclocker... or celeron clocker.

[BeepBeep2]

not true.

if you don't have much $$ then change the class in which you compete :D

You can be an A++ Sempron overclocker... or celeron clocker.

But those do not get talked about like hiwa's and Andre's and K|NGP|N's...

[Sadasius]

But those do not get talked about like hiwa's and Andre's and K|NGP|N's...

Your exactly right too. It is the same in almost anything as well. In bodybuilding nobody cared about the lightweights. They wanted to see the super heavy freaks of nature. In boxing they want to see the big guys kill each other etc etc.

[Movieman]

But those do not get talked about like hiwa's and Andre's and K|NGP|N's...

BUT where did they start?
I guarantee you that there was a day when all of these people were unknown and just experimenting in their homes on modest hardware..
No one was born with these skills,all learned and by the vast majority self taught thru trial and error.

[BeepBeep2]

BUT where did they start?
I guarantee you that there was a day when all of these people were unknown and just experimenting in their homes on modest hardware..
No one was born with these skills,all learned and by the vast majority self taught thru trial and error.

Point taken.

[Movieman]

Point taken.

A little follow up..
There's this guy I know( and you all know him too) that 3-4 years ago I remember talking with him and he was constantly testing.
I mean like constantly testing and learning.
I used to think Dear Lord that would bore me to death but that was him.
Today he is a VERY well known OC'er and one of the sharpest people I know in this hobby..

[uncle fester]

IF you guys think there is no skill involved try competing in the super pi low clock challenge, fastest super pi 32 at 4ghz, lets see how you shape up then.

[OhNoes!]

I have to back Fugger entirely on the bans. There should be a zero tolerance cheating policy. If Fugger did not ban everyone involved, XtremeSystems would lose any and all legitimacy as an overclocking website.

I'm a bit sad to hear some of the cheaters (regardless of that fact that they may be contributing members of the community) won't be getting longer bans. Permanent may be excessive, but if it's just a couple months, that's not enough time, in my opinion.

Unrelated: Charlie, is that a hidden Apple of Eden in your avatar? :)How so? XS is a hub for some of the elite overclockers on the planet; unfortunately banning such legends also denies members some of the invaluable insights they bring into the sub-forums. Andre Yang (AY) benches for Team Pure, not XS. What rule on XS did AY break by "sharing" scores with other XS members? Was the competition organized by XS? Were they representing XS? What if member of this cherished community breaks the law, do they get an automatic ban?

I am by no means questioning the course of action taken by Charles, but this seems to be a grey area that needs to be ironed out quickly to prevent confusion. I certainly am not envious of Charles for this course of action, it must have been one tough decision to make.

[Oliver]

BUT where did they start?
I guarantee you that there was a day when all of these people were unknown and just experimenting in their homes on modest hardware..
No one was born with these skills,all learned and by the vast majority self taught thru trial and error. :up:

[systemviper]

I see people looking for people to defend themselves, i feel that XS wouldn't have banned them if they had not done there homework first. Common i am sure this was taken very serious, and hte people saying OMG lifetime ban, bla bla bla is bad, we are a very forgiving people so no matter what the ban was, with the right actions everything could change in a heartbeat.

So i found this because i haden't seen any post yet of any admissions of guilt till this one,..

Here us skinnee's side of the story as he posted itl...


I want to get my side of this whole situation out in the open…

Vapor was in town for some lab projects we have going on and I talked him into benching with me to qualify for MOA. We had a 160L tank of LN2, XPower boards and Ryan’s (GoatEater) untested chip. I setup the OS, drivers and applications and used the 197.75 drivers… I knew FM always lagged behind approving drivers and figured they hadn’t approved the 257.xx drivers yet.

Wednesday and most of Thursday we spent testing a few kits of RAM, how to clock the uncore on the XPower, and so on… Thursday night we went cold. We benched 480’s in SLI with the 197.75 drivers. And as you can see from the ORB links and screenshots (run 1 ORB (http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm06=14232141) / run 1 HWbot (http://hwbot.org/community/submission/1027997_skinnee_3dmark_2006_2x_geforce_gtx_480_410 54_marks), run 2 ORB (http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm06=14246769) / run 2 HWbot (http://hwbot.org/community/submission/1028803_skinnee_3dmark_2006_2x_geforce_gtx_480_419 99_marks)) we did well with the 480’s and Ryan’s chip was pretty good, but the 197.75 drivers were not FM approved and we later validated that FM QA did not even test those drivers.

So, I have the score to be in second, but my driver choice means the entry cannot be used in the contest and the 480’s are pretty much tapped out score wise. I called in a favor to a buddy here in the Twin Cities to borrow his 5970 and 5870 to go higher in score.

Friday night we tossed the ATI cards on and benched for 7+ hours on Ryan’s chip. During the long session we achieved four scores above 43k and ended up having condensation issues and killing Ryan’s chip early Saturday morning as we were pushing for over 44k.

Saturday afternoon I finally uploaded the scores to ORB and did not even try to make them public at first as I wanted to hold out as long as possible to see what other scores were posted on the leaderboard, but I finally caved and tried to make the lowest score public and it would not go. Here are the screen shots and 3dr files from the Friday night session…

43023 SS (http://skinneelabs.com/assets/images/articles/benchlogs/MOA/skinnee_3D06-43023.jpg) / 43023 3DR (http://skinneelabs.com/assets/images/articles/benchlogs/MOA/skinnee_3D06-43023.3dr)

43474 SS (http://skinneelabs.com/assets/images/articles/benchlogs/MOA/skinnee_3D06-43474.jpg) / 43474 3DR (http://skinneelabs.com/assets/images/articles/benchlogs/MOA/skinnee_3D06-43474.3dr)

43553 3DR (http://skinneelabs.com/assets/images/articles/benchlogs/MOA/skinnee_3D06-43553.3dr)

43912 3DR (http://skinneelabs.com/assets/images/articles/benchlogs/MOA/skinnee_3D06-43912.3dr)

I emailed Pasi at FM and posted in the thread on the FM forums regarding the problem of the scores just not wanting to go Public. During the bench session we renamed 3DMark06.exe to 3DMark05.exe. In pretesting, we observed the score was not very consistent and renaming seemed to improve the consistency and therefore improved the average score slightly, by 50-100 points. Peak scores were unchanged, but low scores weren’t cropping up.

Since we were having problems with the results and had not received any word from FM, we switched over to another 980X and started benching again on Sunday night. However, we were still waiting on FM’s reply to see if they could resolve the ‘Make Public’ issue with the four 43+k ATI results I had uploaded. We ran out of LN2 around 2:00AM Central Time and did not beat our previous high score of 43912 from Friday night/Saturday morning.

We decided to wait up for FM’s reply to see if they could resolve the problem with the results. A few hours before the deadline, an offer came in from Andre for a valid score to secure the 2nd place spot… and out of desperation I took it. In the meantime, Pasi emailed back saying he looked at the results I uploaded previously and saw the the .exe was renamed, which made the checksum invalid and according to FM policy you cannot rename files (modifying the .dlls and .exes at all is forbidden). I uploaded the score from Andre, made it public and notified Pasi of the new project ID to be included in the contest.

The score I uploaded from Andre was pulled as you already know. Taking the 3dr file and uploading it as my own was a complete dumbass move. I exchanged several emails with FM this morning regarding the matter, to which I openly admitted to using Andre’s score as my own.

Regardless of my own stupidity, I want to congratulate the winners and wish them the best of luck in Taipei for the finals.

[tdream]

Actually it's a happy day, we now have less idi0ts in the community.

wait, you're still here? :lol2:

[Dumo]

Too bad it have to end this way, but everyone that involved will move on eventually.....new cpu, new gpu will be released no matter what happens to oc community:D

Edit...as I saw this : [Qoute] "an offer came in from Andre for a valid score to secure the 2nd place spot… and out of desperation I took it"........That is stupid "win with all cost" attitude and it deserved the ban:(

[punx223]

im sorry but I believe this applies

http://verydemotivational.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/129207531329426568.jpg

[Johnny87au]

I still think these guys should be given a chance address this criticism personally (if they choose to do so). Maybe some hacker stole the results and emailed to the others, maybe a band of pink fairies forced Andre's hands to share results, maybe they are victims of international Overclock Mafia (suspected leader: Movieman) :)
Kidding aside, I really don't feel comfortable to see this pages of bashing without them being able to respond. Don't take me wrong, I would be the first person to call them AS*HOLES! but I'd like to say this to their faces rather than , you know, from behind.

+1, totally agree

[systemviper]

here is the post from hiwa....


Hi eveyone
Well, i wanted to wait andre post here for first or answer my pm on msn
but couldn't keep it,during the computex this year i heard ppl have some discusion about me, anything started in there with UNFAIR group results, bench with friends hardware, i lost myself in there, i was in top10 and i touched top5 in aprile with my hardware and cpus.
i checked XS last week and i see futuremark make this contest, bought the board and killed it, it was all to kill first place score witch i couldn't see and let it stay in top. i really couldn't go for MOA it was just to kill that score, then andre shared it with me on my request, but why you shared it with other 4 or 5 ?


I am going to delete all my GROUP scores and ES(the first must be delete) , UNFAIR results from hwbot
i'll go to top20 maybe but who care, i'll back a day and start again bench like a real overclocker.

that's all guys



no he isn't i never said he is bad GHZ, he make score for me, but he shared with other 3 persons with no reason. it's very strange to me :( sorry for my english i didn't want say that.


i am not angry with andre, it was my fault not andre he gave me result on my request.


i edited my old post it wasn't what i wanted to say



we had enough hardware to bench sometimes we use his chip sometimes mine
a lot of boards there, but we should never post the results caz ppl weren't happy on that.

andre didn't get one CENT on LOC, he never sold the scores to me or other ppl
as i told before he gave me score on MY REQUEST.

Andre tried to help us

[BeepBeep2]

Kudos to hiwa and skinnee for having the nuts to confess and learn from mistakes.

[Johnny87au]

U beat me too it, He was man enough to own up and admit what has happened and came clean, alot of people would of made up a excuse and denied it, a real man comes forward.. always a good thing in my book..

[systemviper]

now one from Afrokalle



Hey guys,

as i heared from this competiton my friend (and team mate) sent me his XPower and i bought a retail chip (3005F) to compete...

...but before i had a result this chip died.

So i benched with my Q3QP (a good chip but not as good as the retail) and got some good score's - i did not know the first time that ES Chip not allowed cause in hwbot it is no problem. After i realized it i asked my friend to send me a new retail but there was no time to do it...

I spent a lot of time in benching but all my scores seems useless for this competition and i tought i will upload scores with Q3QP but then i talked with Andre and he said he can help me...

I know it is not ok and it is only my fault!

It is not ok that all people here more against Andre than against us. He benched his own hardware and he also did not compete in this event. So i think the main fault is 100% on our side. What he did is not fair but as i said the main fault is on our side...

I did not upload this score to hwbot - also i did not upload any score from Computex to hwbot - all my/our scores in hwbot done with my hardware...




We wanted to use this as a team account but did not...

Also my team mates have nothing to do with this and cause of this fact (and that it is not my score) this score (and the one's from Computex) are not @hwbot.

My bad feelings was not that big cause i kicked with this score somebody out who also is not a fair player...

...i will not say with this that it is ok (it is 100% not ok) - i will only say why my bad feelings not that big as they could be...




In my case (and i can only speak for me) it is my fault!

He helped me cause he knowed that i worked hard for this competition and cause he knowed that i want come back Taipei to see someone...

So what do you think is his profite???

Again, it is not ok but i can not see that Andre could gain anything from doing this..

And i think i said why my bad feelings not that big.

[Dumo]

Rules in overclocking (competitively with prize or just to show off your new hardware):

1. Post your own result
2. Show your own work

Once you crossed the line...your credibility and respect will vanished:(

[Klarko]

Rules in overclocking (competitively with prize or just to show off your new hardware):
1. Post your own result
2. Show your own work

Sounds like math class :P

[HitandRun]

Time to get rid of all the "great" people.
Cheaters and abusers should be kicked out of the forums and the ranking sites.

p.s. Despite the fact that in their ToU HWbot states "Sharing/selling results = lifetime ban" we see a 1 year ban for mr "I think my money and connections beat everyone and is the honored way to go".

Goodbye, we will NOT miss you at all.

Could not agree more! :up:

[SamHughe]

now one from Afrokalle

Thank you SO MUCH for sharing these. :up:

[Serra]

Oh wow. I haven't seen something this bad in quite awhile. All of those guys were huge in this community, and to find this out... well, it's quite sad. As others have said, Andre has been the subject of scrutiny before so I cannot say it comes as a complete surprise, but the others?

:shakes:


Even so, I am personally not of lifetime bans - though I do fully respect and understand the decision. So take my statement as more of a discussion on the general topic rather than this incident. It is an unpopular thing to say, but I am for reform instead of execution. It might be the Canadian in me talking in a room largely full of Americans, but that's just how I was raised. Canada has a much, much, much higher reform rate than the US, and I tend to think it's because reform is the goal of our penal programs rather than just punishment.

Similarly, I think that in incidents like this there should definitely be some punishment... but with a chance at reform. Go ahead and ban cheaters, strip off their champion status, and do not let them compete for a period of time. By all means cut off the freebies from any companies that are willing to comply. That is all necessary, without question. But rather than having a fully binary system (access or no access), maybe there is a third option.

After a period of time allow them back, but with restrictions. Maybe any contest they enter in the next year must be accompanied with a set of photographs of the accomplishment, or even video (which is much harder to fake). [To be honest I feel that should be a requirement for any high-level competition anyway, but that's another story]. Do not allow them to compete with hardware they received from a manufacturer (verified through the manufacturer, to the extent possible). Etc. What I'm getting at here is that I think people should be given a chance to earn their way back to our good graces.



Again, with that said, I do fully understand and respect the decision in this case. These are the rules we have in place and they should be respected and must be enforced. I speak of future rule changes and my position on the direction I would like to see them moved towards.

[Dahaka]

Hardcore news for ending this day.

but this is like athletes. if any of them consume drugs, energy drinks or something that is involved with antipoding stuff will be "banned" from their career and sport, same thing over here with Andre and other members involved.

Regards from Chile and sorry my band english :P.

[Metroid]

Rules in overclocking (competitively with prize or just to show off your new hardware):

1. Post your own result
2. Show your own work

Once you crossed the line...your credibility and respect will vanished:(

If this was in the university then all of them would be banned and lose all the credibility gained up to that day. What they did is called plagiarism. There is no forgiving for this at uni.

[zanzabar]

Hardcore news for ending this day.

but this is like athletes. if any of them consume drugs, energy drinks or something that is involved with antipoding stuff will be "banned" from their career and sport, same thing over here with Andre and other members involved.

Regards from Chile and sorry my band english :P.

i agree on benching but they are still a valuable part of the community to help other people. in sports even people who roid up are allowed to come back as coaches or trainers, they just have to not use or encourage others.

i think that for XS it should be the same were affter a while cheaters should be able to come back to help others in legitimate pursuits. but for HWbot a life time ban seams appropriate

[charlie]

I don't want to go too far OT... but lower level OC is often times more entertaining than the higher stuff.

Go grab an i3 and a 5830 and make it bark, wag it's tail and cry for supper :D

[YukonTrooper]

Sucks to see the specific individuals banned, considering their status in community, but ultimately cheating is cheating and as such needs to be dealt with harshly for the sake of all legit contenders. The only thing wrong about this is that they weren't awarded double-lifetime bans like XFX dishes out double-lifetime warranties. :p:

[Dahaka]

i agree on benching but they are still a valuable part of the community to help other people. in sports even people who roid up are allowed to come back as coaches or trainers, they just have to not use or encourage others.

i think that for XS it should be the same were affter a while cheaters should be able to come back to help others in legitimate pursuits. but for HWbot a life time ban seams appropriate

:yepp:

But they know the rules so is not a valid excuse to forgive this errors.

skinnee show us their experience benching for MOA, is more undestable now WHY took Andre's results but doesn't change the cheating.

Regards from Chile.

[Utnorris]

Kudos to hiwa and skinnee for having the nuts to confess and learn from mistakes.


U beat me too it, He was man enough to own up and admit what has happened and came clean, alot of people would of made up a excuse and denied it, a real man comes forward.. always a good thing in my book..

Excuse me for my misunderstanding of the situation, but didn't they get caught cheating and then own up to it? I mean it wasn't until an official inquiry by HWBOT before anything was discovered. It's great that they came on here and tried to explain what happened and what they were thinking, but that doesn't change the fact that they decided to cheat. And let's not forget what was at stake here, not just a score, but a paid trip and who knows what else, something that should have rightfully been someone else's. I have no ill will for any of them, especially Skinnee, but that doesn't mean I have any sympathy for what happens to you when you get caught cheating. I am going to say it again, they all got caught, who knows if this is the first time or just the first time they got caught, does anyone know? Of course not, and I want to believe that it was just this once, but the problem is that they have thrown doubt into every score out there now with their selfish action. Every time someone gets the top spot, the question will be there "Is it legit?".

I am also unclear on the punishment. I thought it was a 1 year ban from XS and HWBOT for everyone but Andre who got a permaban. I am now hearing it is something like 30 days on XS, can anyone clear that up for the record?

One more question, when I read Skinnee's explanation earlier it said Vapor changed the extension on one of the files that Skinnee tried to upload and this is what started the whole thing, so did Vapor know what was going on?

[fatguy1992]

Its a shame people cheat, but at least when they get found out they get banned :up:


I don't want to go too far OT... but lower level OC is often times more entertaining than the higher stuff.

Go grab an i3 and a 5830 and make it bark, wag it's tail and cry for supper :D

I have to agree, last few days i'v been benching some old Celeron's and P4. Great fun even though it hasn't provided many points.

[packetNZ]

sad times...its like a knife to the heart of the OC community...dont usually post at XS :welcome: but this is shattering

[zanzabar]

:yepp:

But they know the rules so is not a valid excuse to forgive this errors.

skinnee show us their experience benching for MOA, is more undestable now WHY took Andre's results but doesn't change the cheating.

Regards from Chile.

im not saying that they should not get banned just that lifetime from a forum sounds a bit much when its not were they cheated.

[Sn0wm@n]

im not saying that they should not get banned just that lifetime from a forum sounds a bit much when its not were they cheated.


XS is the meca for ocers worldwide .... fuggers only did what a forum representing this kind of image had to do

[UrbanSmooth]

Andre Yang is the man in the middle:

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/2097/3xxx.png

[Computurd]

does anyone know what they were ranked worldwide, respectively , at the time of the ban? what were each of their positions on the chart?

[dctokyo]

Well done Fugger. :up:

[ulticool]

rofl.. he used the same FM key for all the results even

/me faints

[El Mano]

Andre Yang is the man in the middle:

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/2097/3xxx.png

There are six guys. What do you mean "in the middle"?

[Vapor]

....so did Vapor know what was going on?I gave my opinion on the "what ifs" with doing this then went to sleep in another room some 45 minutes before skinnee uploaded the score and made it public.

Woke up the next morning and found out multiple scores were under investigation :eh:

[Vapor]

Did you tell him NOT to do itI told him my thoughts on the matter and left the decision to him and went to bed. He was the one whose name was on it and he was the one who was trying to qualify for MOA.

[Movieman]

I told him my thoughts on the matter and left the decision to him and went to bed. He was the one whose name was on it and he was the one who was trying to qualify for MOA.

That's good enough for me.
We are not "our brothers keeper" and don't control another adults actions.

[zanzabar]

I told him my thoughts on the matter and left the decision to him and went to bed. He was the one whose name was on it and he was the one who was trying to qualify for MOA.

so the bench rig was there and everything was done with a team (made of the people who have now been banned) and he made a run with it and had it saved or was he just watching and a run was saved or was it his hardware/partly his.

[Johnny87au]

Andre Yang is the man in the middle:

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/2097/3xxx.png

Dinos looks like johnny knoxville lol, bad!

[thebanik]

so the bench rig was there and everything was done with a team (made of the people who have now been banned) and he made a run with it and had it saved or was he just watching and a run was saved or was it his hardware/partly his.

Andre did the run most probably at his place, and distributed the .3dr files electronically to whomsoever who asked from him(or maybe as afro said the other way around).

[UrbanSmooth]

There are six guys. What do you mean "in the middle"?

The fat dude.

[STEvil]

so the bench rig was there and everything was done with a team (made of the people who have now been banned) and he made a run with it and had it saved or was he just watching and a run was saved or was it his hardware/partly his.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?p=4479815#post4479815