View Full Version : Making 3D Playstation games
damha
04-20-2010, 09:20 AM
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-making-of-ps3-3d-article
Pros
* not overly difficult to implement
* HDMI 3D signal
* realism
Cons
* the cell processor is useless
* more work for developers: render 2 images for every frame from a slightly different camera angle
* geometry power is limited by g70, scene geometry will be cut down
* titles supporting 1080p easier to port to 3D because you can scale down to 720p and still have plenty of pixel shading power. Games that run 720p30fps or less will get reduction in IQ/resolution to accommodate
Helloworld_98
04-20-2010, 09:24 AM
I'm confused about the wipeout example, they make it out to seem like the resolution is taken down to 720p and the fps is halved to 30fps
saaya
04-20-2010, 09:37 AM
i saw the 3d demo at a local sony store last week
one of the glasses was broken, lol, so much for build quality, the other one worked, BUT...
they demoed it on a huge tv, somewhere around 40"+...
1. when you use 3d, resolution matters again! you see tiny details in 3d and some things dont look great even at 1080P. dunno what on the res was for the sony demo but the res was not high enough
2. same as above, even more so on a huge tv!
3. it was flickering really really bad... much worse than any 3d stuff ive seen so far...
no idea if it flickered cause of low fps, low refresh rate, bad configuration, low resoluion... but my eyes started tearing after 5mins and i had to take a break lol...
SKYMTL
04-20-2010, 09:56 AM
Honestly, thanks but no thanks. Maybe on next gen machines but I don't want it to be shoved down my throat with the current gen machines.
damha
04-20-2010, 09:56 AM
I'm confused about the wipeout example, they make it out to seem like the resolution is taken down to 720p and the fps is halved to 30fps
The game runs at 1080p. They dropped the res to 720p for 3D @ 60Hz. Because of the geometry limitations they dropped the frames limit to 30Hz to overcome lag.
i saw the 3d demo at a local sony store last week
one of the glasses was broken, lol, so much for build quality, the other one worked, BUT...
they demoed it on a huge tv, somewhere around 40"+...
1. when you use 3d, resolution matters again! you see tiny details in 3d and some things dont look great even at 1080P. dunno what on the res was for the sony demo but the res was not high enough
2. same as above, even more so on a huge tv!
3. it was flickering really really bad... much worse than any 3d stuff ive seen so far...
no idea if it flickered cause of low fps, low refresh rate, bad configuration, low resoluion... but my eyes started tearing after 5mins and i had to take a break lol...
Flickering is poor implementation, nothing to do with hardware.
Honestly, thanks but no thanks. Maybe on next gen machines but I don't want it to be shoved down my throat with the current gen machines.
That's exactly what I thought too. Although I'd like to see how well the Xbox360 handles 3D, since we know its GPU is way more powerful.
Hell Hound
04-20-2010, 12:54 PM
Still not TRUE3D
"Optimization is a big problem with 3D images. With the movie industry they've been creating 3D films for quite a while and one of the techniques they use a lot is referred to as 'parallax from depth map' and the way this works is that you take your normal 2D image and you use the depth map as parallax look-up table to create the second eye image," explains Bickerstaff.
"At our studio we've been looking at doing this, with the left eye generated as normal and the right eye re-projected using the depth map. Basically it doesn't look too bad, it looks similar [to proper 3D]."
Kingcarcas
04-20-2010, 02:59 PM
Can't even run games @ 720p........don't worry about 3D, also most folks don't even have the displays/glasses yet. I wanted to buy some for my DLP but then they said Avatar 3D won't even come out this year wtf :confused:
saaya
04-20-2010, 08:33 PM
Honestly, thanks but no thanks. Maybe on next gen machines but I don't want it to be shoved down my throat with the current gen machines.
IF it would work well... im sure you would :D
but it just doesnt... the ps3 is a bit on the weak side already fps wise and making it render up to twice the frames isnt a good idea... :D
The game runs at 1080p. They dropped the res to 720p for 3D @ 60Hz. Because of the geometry limitations they dropped the frames limit to 30Hz to overcome lag.30hz? OUCH!
Flickering is poor implementation, nothing to do with hardware.weeellll the hardware is too weak to put out 60hz... sure you can cut down on the graphics details or resolution to get to 60hz, but then itll almost look like a ps2 game i guess :P
That's exactly what I thought too. Although I'd like to see how well the Xbox360 handles 3D, since we know its GPU is way more powerful.the 360 will go 3d as well? first time i hear about it...
interesting...
i think itll be too weak as well though...
still, id actually prefer worse graphics in 3d with 60hz than good graphics in 2d with 60hz or 3d with 30hz...
Avatar 3D won't even come out this year wtf :confused:
wtf, really?
GrimReaperGuy
04-20-2010, 08:37 PM
Yeah, not really something we'll be enjoying till the next batch of consoles rolls around, unfortunately. :(
Pontos
04-20-2010, 08:51 PM
What? No wai! Teh Cell is the most stronger part of the PS3! It's got eight cores and beats any PC. It runs 1080p games on a TV when a PC cant run anything well on a smal monitor!
This is BS from Sony hatters!
/sarcasm
Dainas
04-20-2010, 10:10 PM
What? No wai! Teh Cell is the most stronger part of the PS3! It's got eight cores and beats any PC. It runs 1080p games on a TV when a PC cant run anything well on a smal monitor!
This is BS from Sony hatters!
/sarcasm
Amen to that, anything running decently on the PS3, like the PS2 before it, is a testament to the skill and will of the developers. Cell is a tedious piece of in order cacheless junk.
Mech0z
04-20-2010, 10:20 PM
"the cell processor is useless"
Thought it was still rather powerful all considerd ?
RaZz!
04-20-2010, 10:56 PM
"the cell processor is useless"
Thought it was still rather powerful all considerd ?
afaik, the cell is quite powerful in general computing, yes, but unluckily, if you add 3d the console has to render one picture from 2 different perspectives, which is a heavily gpu limited task, so a powerful cpu won't really help in this case.
imagine gta4 running in 3d on a ps3. gta4 runs only on 720p anyways, and this already with poor performance. how crap it'd run in 3d...
current gen consoles aren't ready for 3d yet, however, i couldn't care less as i
1. hate consoles :p:
2. think 3d is useless in its current implementation
:p:;)
Pontos
04-21-2010, 10:13 AM
afaik, the cell is quite powerful in general computing, yes, but unluckily, if you add 3d the console has to render one picture from 2 different perspectives, which is a heavily gpu limited task, so a powerful cpu won't really help in this case.
:p:;)
Current consoles are too underpowered for even normal gaming tasks.
When you have Halo 3 and MW/MW2 running at 1138x640 and 1024x576 respectively you know there's something wrong.
So yeah, we have to thank the X360's R500 based GPU and PS3's G70's based GPU for every graphic tech innovation having no real impact.
AndrewZorn
04-21-2010, 07:28 PM
i still dont get it
current TVs + 30fps*2 games (uh, especially since most of these 3d games will be running at 30fps/hz anyway)
current TVs to easily handle 24fps*2 movies
why do i need a new display
stupid
saaya
04-22-2010, 01:01 AM
you dont... if you dont mind having it flicker even worse than the 120hz panels in 3d mode, lol :D
what i dont get is why there are no 200/240hz panels... the tech is ready, ive seen several panels at the display show here in taipei after computex almost ONE YEAR AGO... :shrug:
ajaidev
04-22-2010, 01:11 AM
I saw a demo "in delhi" and it was very weird :( the screen kinda flashes like hell, you can notice black bars in the center sometimes. I dont know why the refresh rate was decreased so much or maybe the PS3 was overheated.
The glasses are also not top notch they seem cheap and not really child proof.
what i dont get is why there are no 200/240hz panels... the tech is ready, ive seen several panels at the display show here in taipei after computex almost ONE YEAR AGO... :shrug:
Real 240hz or interpolated?There are no 240hz panels available because HDMI standard which is currently used by most if not all consoles/TV's doesn't have enough bandwidth for 1080p @ 200/240hz.
saaya
04-22-2010, 09:40 PM
Real 240hz or interpolated?There are no 240hz panels available because HDMI standard which is currently used by most if not all consoles/TV's doesn't have enough bandwidth for 1080p @ 200/240hz.
no idea... they had several demos where cameras were moving along a wall or painting or text sideways, at a very high speed... and you could read all the text, nothing flickered, all movements very very fluid, it was not as sharp as a standstill shot but close... it looked really amazing...
they compared it to a standstill image and to 120hz... and you could tell a notable difference between 120hz and 200/240hz. (some demoed 200, some 240)
they didnt do any 3d demos on it though...
DarthBeavis
04-22-2010, 09:43 PM
afaik, the cell is quite powerful in general computing, yes, but unluckily, if you add 3d the console has to render one picture from 2 different perspectives, which is a heavily gpu limited task, so a powerful cpu won't really help in this case.
imagine gta4 running in 3d on a ps3. gta4 runs only on 720p anyways, and this already with poor performance. how crap it'd run in 3d...
current gen consoles aren't ready for 3d yet, however, i couldn't care less as i
1. hate consoles :p:
2. think 3d is useless in its current implementation
:p:;)
no, 3d on PC rules. I just finished working the Panasonic Touch the Future Tour demonstrating 3d gaming (contractor for Nvidia) with Nvidia's 3dTVPlay. 3d gaming seriously kicks arse . . .period. Give me a few minutes to demo a few games to you and you will be convinced.
I agree console will be problematic due to the hardware and the frame rate drop with stereoscopic gaming. Nvidia owns the consoles and everyone one else in 3d gaming (over 425 supported titles as of today).
saaya
04-22-2010, 10:29 PM
I saw a demo "in delhi" and it was very weird :( the screen kinda flashes like hell, you can notice black bars in the center sometimes. I dont know why the refresh rate was decreased so much or maybe the PS3 was overheated.
The glasses are also not top notch they seem cheap and not really child proof.yeah, they were heavy too, right? the ones i tried were...
and when they run out of batteries they dont give you any warning or have an led flash or anything, they stop working properly, you get even more flashing and flickering because it doesnt refresh proprly anymore, and then they just turn off and stop working, lol...
i went there again and asked them about the broken glasses they had put back, and they explained, it wasnt broken, the battery was just almost empty... lol