Speaker decisions

[[XC] Oj101]

Repost from a much smaller forum where the people helping hadn't used any of the speakers in question:

So I'm thoroughly sick of the muddy sound your average PC speakers produce and I'm in the market for something a bit... Better. So far my choices are Klipsch ProMedia 2.1, Klipsch KSB 1.1 or Swan M200MkII. I'll be using the speakers mainly for music - trance and metal, the odd movie and a touch of gaming, with music being the main thing. Accurate reproduction of the original source is far more important than booming bass or outright volume. A full range with decent enough bass is always a plus just too have all bases covered, but it must not take priority over the rest of the music.

I'm leaning towards the KSB 1.1s as they don't have a sub. I prefer full range monitors to an x.1 setup as the bass becomes too centralised and a lot of the time they rely on a combination of highs and lows to make a compromised midrange. If Klipsch has gotten it right with the ProMedias I'll consider them but right now from what I've seen I want the KSB and a decent amplifier (I have an old Pioneer from the 70s with a nice brushed aluminium face, very retro).

If there's anything else you can recommend please feel free, but bookshelf monitors get highest preference.

[Soulburner]

A dedicated sub is far superior to relying on the mains to produce the low frequencies. If the bass sounds centralized, it either isn't positioned correctly in the room, the room accoustics are bad overall, or it just isn't a good sub. It shouldn't be doing anything but low frequencies - 20-80Hz or so. Asking the sub to go higher will sound bad, and asking the main speakers to go lower than 80Hz will generally give lackluster results unless they are towers with built in subwoofers.

ProMedias are the best PC speaker I've heard. I have a 4.1 and a 2.1 set, both great.

At my PC I use a 5.1 Onkyo receiver I got refurbished from Onkyo for $89 to power my Athena Point 5's. I have a Velodyne VX-10 for a sub.

Without a doubt blows away anything on the PC. The #1 reason is woofer size. Mine are 4" or so, but I'd really recommend 5" woofers so you can set your crossover at 80Hz. I have mine at 100Hz.

[EniGmA1987]

If you are looking for exact reproduction of the source material, you should really look into getting 2 channels of 31-band graphic EQs. The speakers still matter a lot, but you can use the graphic EQs and an RTA mic to calibrate your frequency response to as flat as can be.

[STEvil]

Promedia's always sounded muddy to me.. :(

A decent 3-way tower is a good way to go. Single tweeter, a 4-5" high-range vocal driver, and an 8 or 10" mid/woofer. Multiple midrange drivers of 6.5 or 8" in size work great too.


I have a pair of Braxton towers that I bought for $65 from "XS Cargo" for rear channel use. They work very very well for whats in them (single tweeter, dual 6.5" midrange) and even work great for main speakers too.

[schlafmuetze]

i would go for a 3way stereo setup and if you can buy OLD !!! speakers
the new speakers cost a whole lot more to reach the same level
and if you can, test the speakers before buying
dont use pc speakers if you want to listen to music, get yourself a decent amp, some speakers, maybe something like the x-fi and your great to go
no pc speakers in the world can overcome a i might call it "real" setup

ALSO where the speakers stand is damn important
if you can stand them around 50cm away from the wall and do it like this:


\ <- speaker -> /


---->HEAD


for a stereo setup, its a must have if you want good sound
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
some other stuff: if you do indeed want a stereo setup now try to get yourself a NAD C 326BEE or the 315
its like day and night compared to "surround" amps and doesnt cost THAT much(paid 500e for mine and love it)

and as i said earlier try to get old speakers and if you get new TESTHEAR THEM FIRST with your desired amp !!!
i got myself a NAD C326BEE and 20 Years old IQ TED 4.. so i got them for 150euros on ebay and needed an amp, so i went to a local shop in town and asked them
which amp would be good for a stereosetup for around 500euros and they said NAD, i testheard it and was like.. woah.. you know the wow effect when something kicks you out of the chair
and they tested them with some 6000(yes.. 6k euros)speakers in stereo configuration as i mentioned earlier, so i took the nad home, "made" my stereo setup
and i have to say my 20 year old IQ´s are even better than these 6000euro things they had there

sooo much talk for some infos =D
let me give you another tip: if you pay once a bit more you might have to pay less to nothing in the future(i wont even get me a new setup,
and i heard lots of other setups like vincent amps and backes and mueller bm 20´s or some bowers and wilkins 800 diamond with some upsampling amp to 192khz)
oh and dont be surprised if the nad only has 38w max output, believe me when i turn the thing up to 75% your head explodes,
its the talk about REAL watts and the talk about these pseudo 2000watts pos amps you can buy for 100euros from ebay..

hope this could clarify your problem with speakers a bit
cheers

edit//head position fixxed

[MikeB12]

I've dinked around with quite a few PC speaker setups over the years. so far my fav for my office pc is the Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 set... and for my HTPC in the den, pipe it through your stereo receiver and theater sound system.

you get different answers from different people. I've kinda found that some users just want good sound in an office pc setting (like Soulburner said above and I said wirth my office pc), and the klipsch promedia 2.1's sound really good.
then you'll get users saying they don't sound good, because they are expecting them to sound like a $1000 theater system.

so in the end it's all about perspective and narrowing down your expectations. imo, the promedia 2.1's work great and have great sound, especially on the mids and highs in a small room or office. but if you expect to put them on theater system ion a den and want big sound from them, then you need to stop, save and blow a grand on a decent theater system.

[Bobsama]

What's your overall budget? For pure speakers, even something like Polk Monitor 30's ($100) or 40's ($140). You'd still need equipment to run the speakers, though.

[Widowmker]

I've been using Klipsch Promedia 4.1 for ~8-9 years now and they still sound great.

[astrolite]

If you will be sitting near the source...

1. Get a GOOD soundcard. None of that soundblast x-fi crap. Look at something like this: http://www.tcelectronic.com/konnekt8.asp

2. Get a pair of active studio monitors (something like this: http://www.amazon.com/Mackie-HR824-Pair-active-Monitors/dp/B002A0GZZW or http://www.amazon.com/Dynaudio-MC-Powered-Monitor-Speakers/dp/B002FC98S6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1275799152&sr=1-1)

Look at spending about $1500

If you will be sitting away from the source, I would still recommend #1 (do your homework on external hardware audio interfaces and find one that suits your needs and is decent), but for #2 you'll probably want a 2.1 set up.

I have a pair of these http://www.definitivetech.com/products/products.aspx?productid=BP7004

They are decent all-around speakers and have built-in subs which are enough to shake my house. You'll need a good amp / receiver to run them, so add a bunch of money there.


The first option will net you the best sound. You'll likely rekindle your love for music.

I also listen to trance (psytrance baby!) and metal (gloomy stuff) and I really dig my Mackie HR824 coupled with a TC Electronic 24d audio processor (the konekkt 8 is the same thing without the effects DSP built-in).

[[XC] Oj101]

Ok, there are a couple of things I must mention:

I certainly don't have $1500 for it, my budget is closer to $350 total.

I have an old Pioneer amp through which it will be running.

I don't expect $1000 quality, just something better than my garbage Logitech X680s (they're ok... for PC speakers).

My budget won't get bigger as it isn't worth it to me, most listening is done through headphones.

I don't want overpowering bass, I want an accurate reproduction of the source.

Most of my music is psytrance (Frozen Ghost:cool: ) and metal, specifically black metal and doom. There is room for anything else though.

I'm using an X-Fi Fatal1ty Xtreme Gamer.

Anything else? :)

[astrolite]

Ok, there are a couple of things I must mention:

I certainly don't have $1500 for it, my budget is closer to $350 total.

I have an old Pioneer amp through which it will be running.

I don't expect $1000 quality, just something better than my garbage Logitech X680s (they're ok... for PC speakers).

My budget won't get bigger as it isn't worth it to me, most listening is done through headphones.

I don't want overpowering bass, I want an accurate reproduction of the source.

Most of my music is psytrance (Frozen Ghost:cool: ) and metal, specifically black metal and doom. There is room for anything else though.

I'm using an X-Fi Fatal1ty Xtreme Gamer.

Anything else? :)

You have very similar music tastes. I actually have some Frozen Ghost in my playlist. One of my favorites is Astrix - so I dig the full-on psytrance a lot :)

As for metal - you probably like Katatonia, Before the Dawn, Insomnium, etc.

$350 is a tight squeeze. I used to have some m-audio stuff and it probably the best bang for your buck in the lower price ranges. They have some active studio monitors that run for under $200.

http://www.amazon.com/M-Audio-Studiophile-AV-Powered-Speakers/dp/B000MUXJCO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1275875293&sr=1-1

There is a link. If you look at the back, they support both TRS and RCA. Your soundcard only supports the minijack connection.

I would look at picking up a new soundcard, that has a good digital to analog converter (DAC). This is where the quality comes from.

You can pick up a TC Electronic Konekkt 8 for $300 (USD) new. I paid a little more for the 24d, since it has other features, but the 8 would be perfect for you. If you can't afford $450-500 (MAudio studio monitors + konnekt 8), just do research for decent studio monitors and an audio interface with a good DAC.

Keep in mind, most of the good audio interfaces use firewire (do you have it?). There are some that use USB, but there is bandwidth issues in some scenarios (with just playback you won't run in to them).

I also wouldn't rule out looking at used equipment. You might be able to step it up a notch without breaking the bank!

[[XC] Oj101]

I'm actually looking at some really old, rebuilt Bose speakers at the moment. The quality is already better than my Logitechs and they'd cost about $75 :)

I'm glad you like Frozen Ghost - it's South African :p:

My metal is more like the old old Dimmu Borgir, Old Man's Child, old old Cradle of Filth, 1349, Emperor, Meyhem, Burzum, Celtic Frost, Immortal, Dark Throne... Norwegian black metal is where it's at ;) Marylin Manson also has a spot, as well as a few bands such as Nile, Lamb of God, The Black Dahlia Murder and Deicide.

I'll have a look at those speakers, but I'm honestly starting to look more towards second hand. Finding new speakers at a good price is difficult here :(

My sound card will be staying the same, as my budget doesn't allow for something better. I picked it up for next to nothing, so why not. Unfortunately, audio isn't my biggest hobby, and certainly not the most expensive :(

USB? Negative. Firewire? Negative. My amp is almost 40 years old :p:

[SnipingWaste]

The Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 / 4.1 / and 5.1 are great with only one problem of no digital input. Klipsch ProMedia will be hard to find new now but you should be able find them used. The other set of speakers I like are the Altec Lansing ADA 880/885/890 4.1 sets. The nice thing is there dolby digital and have a digital input coax so you can feed it raw digital plus there THX like the Klipsch ProMedia. I have 2 sets of Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 and 1 ADA 880 and 1 set of ADA885 and they are all great setups. I using a pair of ADA880 on my 50" DLP tv and with movies wll shake the wall with sound effects.


The really sad thing is the new PS speakers today really suck in sound. They make speakers that only look good but sound horrible. The best of the PC speakers were made by Klipsch and Altec Lansing about 9 to 10 years ago and the sad thing is there doing what the others are dong now making PC speakers that look good and sounds horrible. They can't find a sub thats made from wood now because there all plastic.

[Widowmker]

The Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 / 4.1 / and 5.1 are great with only one problem of no digital input. Klipsch ProMedia will be hard to find new now but you should be able find them used. The other set of speakers I like are the Altec Lansing ADA 880/885/890 4.1 sets. The nice thing is there dolby digital and have a digital input coax so you can feed it raw digital plus there THX like the Klipsch ProMedia. I have 2 sets of Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 and 1 ADA 880 and 1 set of ADA885 and they are all great setups. I using a pair of ADA880 on my 50" DLP tv and with movies wll shake the wall with sound effects.


The really sad thing is the new PS speakers today really suck in sound. They make speakers that only look good but sound horrible. The best of the PC speakers were made by Klipsch and Altec Lansing about 9 to 10 years ago and the sad thing is there doing what the others are dong now making PC speakers that look good and sounds horrible. They can't find a sub thats made from wood now because there all plastic.

How do you think a Dell/Altec 5.1 ADA995 system would sound compared to the Klipsch ProMedia 4.1 in sound quality? I have a spare ADA995 system my friend gave me, but hooking it up would be a bit of a PITA.

If they're not significantly better than the Klipsch 4.1 then I'll keep using the Klipsch.

[SnipingWaste]

I don't know much about the ADA995. If I remember right the is no volume control on them so windows volume control is the only way to control the volume. I think its only analog input too so no digital.

[Donnie27]

How do you think a Dell/Altec 5.1 ADA995 system would sound compared to the Klipsch ProMedia 4.1 in sound quality? I have a spare ADA995 system my friend gave me, but hooking it up would be a bit of a PITA.

If they're not significantly better than the Klipsch 4.1 then I'll keep using the Klipsch.

No, almost all of the so called computer multimedia speaker sets sucks a big one. They are only meant for small spaces or etc... You don't need to be an audiophile to move to a real audio system with REAL speakers. Those companies with great names like Altec, Advent, Klipsch, and even M-Audio ought to be ashamed of themselves for the greed in the market. Most of these speakers are even lower Quality than mid-price-range Car speakers.

Even cheaper, more affordable HTiB systems sound better and are more reliable. I know as I've had the Pro Media 2.1 die, Creative 650 6.1 die, Logitech 560z and 5500 Die. The 650's died and I used an hold JVC for back as I tied to exchange the 650's. LOL, missed the warranty by about 2 weeks:rolleyes:

Anyway I connected some nicer speakers to that old JVC and boom, no more trash computer multimedia for me. In fact, I don't know of anyone who has tried a Real Audio System and went back to the computer *junk IMHO! But if that's what some of you guys like, more power to ya'! I feel for the folks who do have have space for something better.

[Fhqwhgads6680]

Here's what I would do:

1. Get a used/refurbished 5.1 receiver, a good one maybe marantz or HK or (some) onkyo's (I only say this cause some of their recievers are known to have problems and marantz and HK are more musical and he said mostly music)

2. I would build my own speakers out of a kit like this: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-702 These are going to sound MUCH better than anything you can buy for $200.. Now if you don't want to build your own you could get two of these: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=303-420 Having the Passive radiators and being 6 1/2 drivers you could run these full frequency until you add a sub. or:

3. Get this sub or a similar powered sub: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=303-430

Now you want to run these direct so basically 2ch Plus LFE for the sub.

now lets add this up:

$100 Used/refurb receiver
$240 Speakers ($200 if DIY and those are going to be better)
$150 Sub

This is about $140+ over your budget, but I urge you to save your money and do something like this. Its going to give you a MUCH better soundstage, and much more acurate reporduction of the source material.

Anyway hope I didn't rant too much just trying to help!
Brandon

[Donnie27]

#
[VINTAGE DENON PRECISION AV RECEIVER DRA-35V JAPAN EXCEL]
VINTAGE DENON ... $85.46

[MARANTZ 2220B STEREO RECEIVER - VINTAGE]
MARANTZ 2220B STEREO ... $78.88

The get something in the HPM line!
http://cgi.ebay.com/Pioneer-Vintage-Classic-HPM-60-Stereo-Speakers-Good-/370395790076?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item563d4f3afc

The model 40, 50 and or 60's has enough Highs, Mids and great Bass to please even some Audiophiles! At that EBay price I'm kind of surprised they aren't sold. They might not be night club loud but you'd be hard pressed to find anything close to their FULL RANGE for less than $500 or maybe even $1000:)

[[XC] Oj101]

Here's what I would do:

1. Get a used/refurbished 5.1 receiver, a good one maybe marantz or HK or (some) onkyo's (I only say this cause some of their recievers are known to have problems and marantz and HK are more musical and he said mostly music)

2. I would build my own speakers out of a kit like this: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-702 These are going to sound MUCH better than anything you can buy for $200.. Now if you don't want to build your own you could get two of these: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=303-420 Having the Passive radiators and being 6 1/2 drivers you could run these full frequency until you add a sub. or:

3. Get this sub or a similar powered sub: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=303-430

Now you want to run these direct so basically 2ch Plus LFE for the sub.

now lets add this up:

$100 Used/refurb receiver
$240 Speakers ($200 if DIY and those are going to be better)
$150 Sub

This is about $140+ over your budget, but I urge you to save your money and do something like this. Its going to give you a MUCH better soundstage, and much more acurate reporduction of the source material.

Anyway hope I didn't rant too much just trying to help!
Brandon

I have a very nice retro Pioneer amp thanks :D I'm really leaning towards a set of rebuilt Bose speakers from way back when, I'll try to get the model later, and no sub. They're (very) loud, crystal clear throughout my listening volume range and at $100 why the heck not?:)

[[XC] Oj101]

#
[VINTAGE DENON PRECISION AV RECEIVER DRA-35V JAPAN EXCEL]
VINTAGE DENON ... $85.46

[MARANTZ 2220B STEREO RECEIVER - VINTAGE]
MARANTZ 2220B STEREO ... $78.88

The get something in the HPM line!
http://cgi.ebay.com/Pioneer-Vintage-Classic-HPM-60-Stereo-Speakers-Good-/370395790076?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item563d4f3afc

The model 40, 50 and or 60's has enough Highs, Mids and great Bass to please even some Audiophiles! At that EBay price I'm kind of surprised they aren't sold. They might not be night club loud but you'd be hard pressed to find anything close to their FULL RANGE for less than $500 or maybe even $1000:)

Remember that once I add postage to that it's pretty much out of my budget :(

[Bobsama]

Surf Craiglist for vintage speakers; Polk's old Monitor lineup (ie: pre-1991) are pretty good and would be well within your budget. Alternatively, there was also the RTA lineup and the high-end SDA lineup; any of the three will be excellent though the SDA's will probably be too big to work (and tend to be more expensive).

[[XC] Oj101]

Once again, I'm in South Africa and shipping alone will be my entire budget out the window, and a lot more (I got a quote of $300 to ship a PSU from the USA about two months ago).

[Donnie27]

Remember that once I add postage to that it's pretty much out of my budget :(

Oh crap, I forgot! Since you already got the Vintage Pioneer, you're mostly there.

[Lestat]

oh hell man just dont even pi$$ around just go find some Klipsch ProMedia 5.1 Ultras and never look back.

sure they are $300 but theya re worth ever single penny and you will never need another set of pc speakers again.
hell use them as your home theater speakers too.

[[XC] Oj101]

I really don't want surround sound as 99.9% of the time they'll be used for stereo music, but thanks :)

[Donnie27]

I really don't want surround sound as 99.9% of the time they'll be used for stereo music, but thanks :)

That's exactly where those old school stereo 3 or even 4 way speakers excel! Many don't even require a sub. Yes, your version of EBay do carry vintage speakers.

[[XC] Oj101]

Exactly :D I'm not a fan of bass that blows you into another dimension, well I'm not really a fan of bass at all although there are some genres that don't sound right without a prominent bassline but even then some full range speakers WITHOUT the backnumbing bass will do me perfectly.

[Bobsama]

That's exactly where those old school stereo 3 or even 4 way speakers excel! Many don't even require a sub. Yes, your version of EBay do carry vintage speakers.

Some vintage speakers; 8 active woofers, 4 tweeters, & a passive radiator. :p The ones in my living room are 4 active woofers, 2 tweeters, & a passive rad.

[Donnie27]

Some vintage speakers; 8 active woofers, 4 tweeters, & a passive radiator. :p The ones in my living room are 4 active woofers, 2 tweeters, & a passive rad.

You got it Bob:up: There is such a thing as over kill. After I finish my remodeling, I'm going for a Panoramic shot of my Den. It has my two big DIYers tuned port Passive, Two Fisher 9v's powered by a powerful JVC receiver with 15" 2 tweeters and 2 mids sealed, Two Radio Shack Mach One's Sealed, 15", super tweeter and huge Midrange Horn. These have my DIYer 12 Pioneer 1200W Sub that's never really been pushed beyond 300 Watts
and a 200 Watt Sony center (too lazy to build another LOL). It blows my 500W JBL Sub away LOL!

My computer and HT system have at least two receivers connected. The one in the Den has it's own set of separate speakers (the Fish 9v) that plays the Main Channel. The one in the computer room is decoupled and the main channel sent to an Old School Harmon Kardon 730 (beast). In fact, never mind that there isn't a speaker out there that it can't push but its headphone out can kill, crush and maim even $500 can mini Headphone Can amps! Find a HK-930 model and you'll NEVER want anything else IMHO!


Exactly I'm not a fan of bass that blows you into another dimension, well I'm not really a fan of bass at all although there are some genres that don't sound right without a prominent bassline but even then some full range speakers WITHOUT the backnumbing bass will do me perfectly.

Yes! Absolutely. That's why I can't go with one EQ setting. One setting can help one type of music and mess up another. I love music, almost any kind of music. I like Rick James and Bob James, I like Jackson Browne and James Brown, James and Johnny Taylor. Then back to back listen to Piano In THe Dark, Unbreak My Heart and Angel:)

Now, If I don't change setting and go straight to Creed, things on the walls are shook off their mounts and nails LOL!