Just Another TBallancer/AquaSystems Question Thread. [Archive]

NKrader

04-15-2010, 01:47 AM

TballancerBIGNG or Aquaero 4.00 USB

wondering if it could run these 8 Fans on one speed controll?

4x Scythe Gentle Typhoon, ultra speed (unkown amperage).
4x Feser Triebwerk tk-122, mid speed 1800rpm around (.51 amp listed)

im pretty sure it can but what else could that handle?
+
2x Noiseblocker NB-BlackSilentPro 140mm? 1700rpm (.2 amp listed)
+
3x 80mm Noiseblocker NB-BlackSilentFan? 1800rpm (.1 amp listed)

and if I added MiniNG/Aqua Computer Poweradjust Thing could i also control
2x ddc? :shrug:

haha thats all the stuff that would fit into my case just trying to make sure i get the right controller as I dont want to buy stuff twice.. already have kaze server and its just too small.. .9a per channel?? wtf.. /facepalm

also with both of these can you have it auto adjust based on ambient? like if it goes up 5c in my room the water temp sensors controlling fans go up 5c?

Cheers,
NK :up:

NKrader

04-15-2010, 04:25 PM

bump

squishee

04-15-2010, 04:30 PM

H20Cooled

04-15-2010, 11:37 PM

do you know if you can run 2 bigNG's on one pc in win 7 64? I'll have 4 pumps so would need 2 units plus add ons.

NKrader

04-15-2010, 11:51 PM

do you know if you can run 2 bigNG's on one pc in win 7 64? I'll have 4 pumps so would need 2 units plus add ons.

run aqua aero and big ng?? :shocked:

leppie

04-16-2010, 03:59 AM

do you know if you can run 2 bigNG's on one pc in win 7 64? I'll have 4 pumps so would need 2 units plus add ons.

Hardware-wise that should not be a problem.

From a software point of view, it depends if it supports multiple COM port connections. If such a setting exists, it should be capable.

It might be too, that you would need to run 2 separate installed versions of the software, each with a different COM port setting.

Failing above, you would like need to write your own app that can handle more than 1 COM port.

See OpenHardwareMonitor project on Google Code for hints.

astrodanco

04-16-2010, 11:16 AM

do you know if you can run 2 bigNG's on one pc in win 7 64? I'll have 4 pumps so would need 2 units plus add ons.

From this (http://www.t-balancer.com/english/index.htm) site:

....Can I run my system with more than 1 T-Balancer?

....You can also install more than one T-Balancer in your system. But for monitoring and configuration activities you have to choose one TBAN after another (not in parallel).

Maybe that helps and maybe not. It's a very old FAQ.

Blueking

04-16-2010, 11:35 AM

From this (http://www.t-balancer.com/english/index.htm) site:

Maybe that helps and maybe not. It's a very old FAQ.

updates etc are done on tbalancer forum (http://www.mcubed-tech.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)

Factotum

04-16-2010, 12:14 PM

t-balacer:
* Limited support
* Driver problems that need to be solved on your own
* The device shows wrong fan speed from time to time
* No LCD. Some of you might argue with that, but: in case of system failure, for example pump malfunctioning, the device only sets the alarm and to figure out the reason for this system crash you at least have to enter motherboard BIOS or check alarm’s post codes

Aquaero USB 4.0 - true German quality with best support (many thanks to Shoggy)

4x Scythe Gentle Typhoon, ultra speed 0.083*12*4= 4W
4x Feser Triebwerk tk-122, mid speed 1800rpm around (.51 amp listed) 0.51*12*4=24W.48
2x ddc - 18*2=36W
_________________
Aquaero USB 4.0 with Powerbooster (http://shop.aquacomputer.de/product_info.php?products_id=2356) + 2 x poweramp (http://shop.aquacomputer.de/product_info.php?products_id=2363)

Waterlogged

04-16-2010, 01:44 PM

t-balacer:
* Limited support
* Driver problems that need to be solved on your own
* The device shows wrong fan speed from time to time
* No LCD. Some of you might argue with that, but: in case of system failure, for example pump malfunctioning, the device only sets the alarm and to figure out the reason for this system crash you at least have to enter motherboard BIOS or check alarm’s post codes

Aquaero USB 4.0 - true German quality with best support (many thanks to Shoggy)

4x Scythe Gentle Typhoon, ultra speed 0.83*4=3.32W
4x Feser Triebwerk tk-122, mid speed 1800rpm around (.51 amp listed) 0.51*12*4=24W.48
2x ddc - 18*2=36W
_________________
Aquaero USB 4.0 with Poweramp + 2 x fanamp

Actually, the GT's are rated @ .083A but, that's only half the story. Start up on them is 360mA, so the load is going to have to be adjusted to compensate.

http://catalog.nidec-servo.com/digital/english/general/pdf/D1225C.pdf

Migi06

04-17-2010, 10:37 AM

t-balacer:
* Limited support
* Driver problems that need to be solved on your own
* The device shows wrong fan speed from time to time
* No LCD.
Some of you might argue with that, but: in case of system failure, for example pump malfunctioning, the device only sets the alarm and to figure out the reason for this system crash you at least have to enter motherboard BIOS or check alarm’s post codes

Aquaero USB 4.0 - true German quality with best support (many thanks to Shoggy)

I agree, but LCD is great optional for some people (I dont need that). Wrong fan speeds, what do you mean (are they calculated or just showing wrong speed..)? There is automatic system shutdown, but I dont know how it works. I see that T-ban is better universal controller like case fans and without waterooling stuff.. Also its easy to expand bigNG + 2 miniNG and if you want you can use fan amp's in every channel.

Wanna watercool your T-ban? (http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=fi&sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/f137/t-balancer-bigng-fragen-591403-14.html&rurl=translate.google.fi&twu=1&usg=ALkJrhh4Lf0gJ8cTpxf9dlWIyU0q2P5VWg#post1439371 0)

marxviper

04-17-2010, 02:56 PM

Grinder

06-09-2010, 06:39 PM

Sigh... I'm looking at the aquaero with booster vs bigng + sensor hub (maybe mining), both with ac high flow meter.

From what I've read here and elsewhere, I would prefer the mcubed stuff for the power, flexibility, and pwm fans sound nice (have to purchase 6 for rad). But it sounds like a dead product :( I hate the idea of rewarding mcubed for letting their software stagnate. It's a shame, I'm sure they'd sell many more with a little support and development.

I'm looking at 6 120mm fans for my MCR320, 2 120mm intake, 1 120mm and 2 90mm exhaust. I have an old swiftech 650 that works fine, but thinking of replacing it with a 655 (= d5 vario) but not necessarily driving it from the fan controller. It's a simple 1/2 in loop, just the pump, rad, cpu, res. I like the idea of rpm/cpu temp/flow based shutdown independant of OS.

Can anyone confirm that win 7 64 works (eventually, if you install the dll or the new version then the older version or whatever) with no issues with the mcubed gear? No disabling UAC to install it?

Likewise, can anyone confirm that Everest works reliably to display temps and rpms from mcubed equipment? I know there are collisions between navigator and everest in polling the gear, but after configuration I wouldn't expect to run Navigator. As a bonus, does the G15 plugin work?

Sorry to borrow your thread NKRader, but I figured I better not create YET another. And... Here's a chance for any aquaero or tms-200 diehards to sway me away from the dark side :) Or I may just buy two fanamps and hook them to my mobo headers, and give up on shutdown, temp, flow, et cetera...

0xdeadbeef

06-10-2010, 12:17 AM

Likewise, can anyone confirm that Everest works reliably to display temps and rpms from mcubed equipment? I know there are collisions between navigator and everest in polling the gear, but after configuration I wouldn't expect to run Navigator. As a bonus, does the G15 plugin work?

I confirm that standard analogue temp sensors reading works with Everest. I have two of these in my reservoirs that I read from Everest v5.02 and show in my Win7 sidebar.

Grinder

06-10-2010, 03:49 AM

I confirm that standard analogue temp sensors reading works with Everest. I have two of these in my reservoirs that I read from Everest v5.02 and show in my Win7 sidebar.

Thanks, two birds with one stone :)

What about digitals, flow, or fan rpm? Does anything NOT work, and are you happy with it? It sounds like I would require just the bigNG. Sensor hub if I want flow monitoring and shutdown, miniNG if I want to drive a pump.

I wish these were available in Canada, rather than having to order internationally and pay high shipping/duty/possible brokerage fees. I see the Koolance IS available in Canada, but it's not clear to me whether all the teething problems have been resolved.

Thanks for the reply 0xdeadbeef.

0xdeadbeef

06-10-2010, 05:52 AM

What about digitals, flow, or fan rpm? Does anything NOT work, and are you happy with it? It sounds like I would require just the bigNG. Sensor hub if I want flow monitoring and shutdown, miniNG if I want to drive a pump.

I have 10 radiator fans connected to my bigNG but they don't show up in Everest at all. I have the RPM cables connected but it doesn't help. The same for my 2 pumps that are connected to a sensorhub, they too don't show up Everest. But analogue sensors work ok.

marxviper

06-10-2010, 06:15 AM

all these problems.. I regret buy BigNG. :'(

Church

06-10-2010, 06:58 AM

Rad fans to single chan? You have to use only rpm wire from one of fans, but others - have cut. Otherwise rpm signals from all of fans together will confuse controller.

Grinder

06-10-2010, 07:09 AM

CCC

06-10-2010, 12:39 PM

ive been eyeing the Aquaero 4.00 USB but wasnt sure if you could put say 3 or 4 scythe gentle typhoons on each channel. anyone know how many watts per channel it will handle?

EDIT: i just came across this

"Powerbooster"
This pre-mounted upgrade increases the maximum overall load from 30W to 45W. Channel 1 can handle up to 25W so it can be used for pumps like the aing DDC-1T or DDC-1T Plus series. The other three channels can handle a load of up to 15W."

0xdeadbeef

06-10-2010, 03:04 PM

Rad fans to single chan? You have to use only rpm wire from one of fans, but others - have cut. Otherwise rpm signals from all of fans together will confuse controller.

Agreed. But I suspect this problem runs deeper for everest/bigng integration, i.e. you'd expect the rpm value to present but wrong, if it were available at all.

Sorry, I was in a hurry when I wrote about the RPM cables and didn't explain correctly. I have 2 or 3 fans in each fan channel and of course only one fan's RPM cable is going into the connector in bigNG.

Edit: Now for a stupid PWM question. If I select a BigNG, I was set to order 6 PWM four pin fans. I have since discovered that the BigNG has 3 pin fan connectors. Am I correct in thinking that I just hook regular fans to it, and they are just run with pulses of 12V (PWM mode) versus a steady but variable voltage (analog mode)? PWM four pin fans are only for taking a PWM speed control from e.g. a mobo header, and the fan applies the 12V based on this pin, rather than the BigNG simply sending pulses of 12V? Pardon my crappy explanation :)

This is absolutely correct as I understand it. Not all fans like PWM this way though. My medium and high speed Yate Loon worked very well with PWM. No problems and no strange sounds from the fans. I have very good experience with YL and PWM from bigNG.

But it's another thing with my San Aces. They are impossible to use with PWM from bigNG; I get high pitch ticking sounds from the fans. With my San Aces I have to use analogue mode, but it works very well when you have tuned your response curves in Navigator.

You can't use PWM on Laing pumps of course, it will destroy them quickly.

Grinder

06-10-2010, 03:20 PM

Sorry, I was in a hurry when I wrote about the RPM cables and didn't explain correctly. I have 2 or 3 fans in each fan channel and of course only one fan's RPM cable is going into the connector in bigNG.

This is absolutely correct as I understand it. Not all fans like PWM this way though. My medium and high speed Yate Loon worked very well with PWM. No problems and no strange sounds from the fans. I have very good experience with YL and PWM from bigNG.

But it's another thing with my San Aces. They are impossible to use with PWM from bigNG; I get high pitch ticking sounds from the fans. With my San Aces I have to use analogue mode, but it works very well when you have tuned your response curves in Navigator.

You can't use PWM on Laing pumps of course, it will destroy them quickly.

Thanks for clarifying the pwm fans. I am leaning Gelid or Scythe I think, basically looking for great flow per dB, something that can be relatively quiet most of the time but overachieve when I'm gaming or benching. Right now I have 3 2200 rpm aluminum Startech 3 speed fans (on bust) on my rad. They say 30 dB but they are probably louder.

So the Navigator software appears to be accurately reporting rpm? Or it's calculated from the power being used to drive them?

I plan to order a new pump. I like my Swiftech MCP650, but it's 5.5 years old. I probably won't bother to drive the new pump from whatever fan controller I get, but I'd like to monitor rpm and flow.

BTW is Sthlm = Stockholm?

0xdeadbeef

06-11-2010, 11:26 AM

So the Navigator software appears to be accurately reporting rpm? Or it's calculated from the power being used to drive them?

I think it's calculated and not the actual RPM. According to Navigator my San Aces have maximum RPM between 2700 and 3100 depending on which fan channel I view. There's definitely something wrong with Navigator and fan channel speed display. But this doesn't really matter because I always check voltage and not RPM. I can see how much voltage each fan channel is using and that's enough for me.

T-balancer has some minor faults and the support is not the best, but it's truly a "setup and forget" kind of system. If you take your time to carefully setup the response curves, you don't need to touch it until you install more radiators, pumps or whatever. You don't even need to have Navigator or any other program running to make it work, it's totally self sufficient after initial installation. I launch Navigator about two times every year now: during spring and fall to adjust the curves for winter/summer ambient temps in my apartment. Four years without any problem whatsoever.

BTW is Sthlm = Stockholm?

Yes!

Blueking

06-11-2010, 01:00 PM

http://openhardwaremonitor.org/ shows fan and temps on bigNG and MiniNG, should be an update there soon wich supports wieving fan/temps on two miniNG connected to one BigNG, I tested an alpha release of this openhardwaremonitor software :up:

With better cooling ->
"The transistors can handle up to 8A per channel, but the connector can only
hold around 3, perhaps up to 4 Ampere. That is around 40W per channel
possible - but in that excessive case of use the PCB has to be checked if
there are other hotspots left."

Mine BigNG and MiniNG's ->

http://www.mcubed-tech.com/forum/attachment.php?aid=687
http://www.diskusjon.no/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=370901
http://www.diskusjon.no/uploads/monthly_06_2010/post-57231-1275657343,889_thumb.jpg

BrokenArrow

06-11-2010, 04:41 PM

Blueking,

Nice job watercooling both the bigNG and miniNGs. Wow, very good use for a MIPS RAMcooler for the two miniNGs. :up:

Grinder

06-11-2010, 05:57 PM

I think it's calculated and not the actual RPM.

...

T-balancer has some minor faults and the support is not the best, but it's truly a "setup and forget" kind of system.

Yes!

That may be why Everest doesn't show the rpm. I think I am leaning towards mcubed, having ruled out tms-200 but still considering aquaero. If mcubed software development was still active, it would be an easier decision. Yes, I do understand that most of the time it doesn't need to interact with the operating system.

Can you or anyone else recommend an online shop with the best price and availability that ships internationally?

I spent a couple of nights in Stockholm in the 90's on my way to and from a week of work in Norrköping. I enjoyed Sweden very much. The landscape kind of reminded me of home (Nova Scotia, Canada). We had an interesting high speed cab ride from the airport :eek:

http://openhardwaremonitor.org/ shows fan and temps on bigNG and MiniNG, should be an update there soon wich supports wieving fan/temps on two miniNG connected to one BigNG, I tested an alpha release of this openhardwaremonitor software :up:

With better cooling ->

Very nice Blueking. If I order a bigNG, I will definitely check out that software. I had read about it in the mcubed forum. It would be nice if it supports my G15 keyboard LCD, just for a bit of bling. As suggested above, run Navigator once in a while to set up/tune, and Everest or hw mon to keep an eye on things.

I think for my needs, just a bigNG and an analog sensor hub would suffice to drive 6 120 mm fans on rad, 2 120 intake, 1 120 and 2 90 exhaust, with various temp sensors, maybe a flowmeter. I'm trying to determine if I can solder an rpm lead to a swiftech 655 (d5 vario) as I want rpm monitoring, but like the vario better than the B, and probably would prefer the d5 style over a 355 and top. Am I right in thinking the rpm lead would attach to the flow sensor input on the hub? I would expect to power the pump just from the power supply, as I don't find noise an issue currently with my old 650.

Cheers :toast:

0xdeadbeef

06-11-2010, 10:27 PM

Very impressive Blueking. What water block are you using for bigNG?

0xdeadbeef

06-11-2010, 10:51 PM

Am I right in thinking the rpm lead would attach to the flow sensor input on the hub? I would expect to power the pump just from the power supply, as I don't find noise an issue currently with my old 650.

Yes, the RPM cable goes into one of the flow sensor connectors in sensorhub. Then you can setup Navigator to alarm and/or automatically shutdown if the RPM goes below or above two different thresholds.

Grinder

06-12-2010, 04:32 AM

Yes, the RPM cable goes into one of the flow sensor connectors in sensorhub. Then you can setup Navigator to alarm and/or automatically shutdown if the RPM goes below or above two different thresholds.

Max two flow sensors? Can you connect just an rpm lead from a pump to a fan channel to monitor whether it has stopped or not, without driving the pump from the channel? I'm thinking if later I want to add a second loop, and want both flow and rpm for both.

The mcubed flow meter, even the 5mm, looks restrictive. Is it? I would be tempted to get the AC high flow, but it is expensive compared to others.

0xdeadbeef

06-12-2010, 09:42 AM

You have two flow sensors in sensorhub with which you can assign alarms and automatic shutdowns. But you can't assign alarms for the RPM in a fan channel of bigNG. You can only assign alarms for digital or analogue temp sensors which are associated with a certain fan channel.

There's optional feature in bigNG called "blockage recognition" that starts the alarm and increases the speed to max if the RPM signal goes silent. This feature is useful if somebody has poorly designed response curves that decreases the voltage to much and stops the fan. Blockage recognition will not shutdown your system and I can't see how this can be used with a pump.

Blueking

06-13-2010, 05:09 AM

Very impressive Blueking. What water block are you using for bigNG?

Not sure actually what block this are... but it were too big for BigNG så I had to mill a Cu plate, took it from a swiftech storm cpu waterblock cutted it in right size so it fits between buzzer and capisators and soldered a plain chipset waterblock onto this Cu plate, had a short pieces of solder wire pieces between had it on a cooking plate fired it up to max and it were done :)

Blueking

06-13-2010, 05:11 AM

Blueking,

Nice job watercooling both the bigNG and miniNGs. Wow, very good use for a MIPS RAMcooler for the two miniNGs. :up:

:up: ordered wrong RAMcooler (7) needed the wider one (6) for 3 channel ram slots :P So it came handy after all :D

lowfat

06-18-2010, 09:35 AM

Lets say I want to throw an MCP355 on a bigng. Is it hard on the pump at all? The only reason I am using the BigNG is to keep my HD5970 above 40C and even w/ all the fans off on the radiator is rather difficult. Was hoping that slowing the pump down may help.

-X-hellfire

06-18-2010, 05:26 PM

It´s possible to run 8 fans on two T-Balancer controllers with
two instances of T-Balancer Navigator installed and running.

http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/8563/4d00idle0xc1e32008x4001.jpg (http://img93.imageshack.us/i/4d00idle0xc1e32008x4001.jpg/)

lowfat

06-24-2010, 02:25 PM

http://openhardwaremonitor.org/ shows fan and temps on bigNG and MiniNG, should be an update there soon wich supports wieving fan/temps on two miniNG connected to one BigNG, I tested an alpha release of this openhardwaremonitor software :up:

http://smiliesftw.com/x/cool420.gif (http://smiliesftw.com)

I must say I like this software.

Grinder

06-24-2010, 02:42 PM

http://smiliesftw.com/x/cool420.gif (http://smiliesftw.com)

I must say I like this software.

I'll definitely give it a try when I finally have time to install my mcubed stuff, which just arrived from sidewinder.

lowfat

06-24-2010, 03:35 PM

I'll definitely give it a try when I finally have time to install my mcubed stuff, which just arrived from sidewinder.

It is just for monitoring. Very lightweight program though. Although now I can have my fan speeds showing in my taskbar :cool:

Grinder

06-24-2010, 03:47 PM

It is just for monitoring. Very lightweight program though. Although now I can have my fan speeds showing in my taskbar :cool:

Nice. I want them displayed on my G15 lcd:up:

BTW, I recognize 24 and firefly, who's the other one?

lowfat

06-24-2010, 03:49 PM

Nice. I want them displayed on my G15 lcd:up:

BTW, I recognize 24 and firefly, who's the other one?

Crichton from Farscape.

Blueking

06-24-2010, 08:37 PM

Nice. I want them displayed on my G15 lcd:up:

BTW, I recognize 24 and firefly, who's the other one?

Everest ultimate edition does that I think

Grinder

06-25-2010, 04:58 AM

From what I gather, for win 7 64 I should use 2.12 and latest firmware and NOT run it in IP mode?

Crichton from Farscape.

Right, I did catch a few of those :)

So, will Open Hardware Monitor display all data, or just the first 6 analog temps on the BigNG? i.e. can it show digital temps from BigNG, flow from Sensor Hub, temps/rpms from MiniNG?

Everest ultimate edition does that I think

I think it does, although there is a collision issue with the Navigator software (not a big deal since I don't intend to run Navigator after I configure it).

I think it was on the "to do" list the last time I checked the Open Hardware Monitor site.

Blueking

06-25-2010, 07:16 AM

So, will Open Hardware Monitor display all data, or just the first 6 analog temps on the BigNG? i.e. can it show digital temps from BigNG, flow from Sensor Hub, temps/rpms from MiniNG?

I got an alpha release from one of hardware monitor guys that fixed bug with software not showing data from second miniNG, and can verify that with alpha software it posted data from both miniNG that were connected to BigNG :up::up:

ABalthazor

06-25-2010, 04:08 PM

Grinder, I'm curious to hear your impressions after using the T-balancer for a while, if you don't mind sharing.

Grinder

06-26-2010, 04:22 AM

Grinder, I'm curious to hear your impressions after using the T-balancer for a while, if you don't mind sharing.

Will do. I'm still waiting for some backordered parts before I install it, a Swiftech Komodo gpu block, and a 655 vario to add inline with my 650 (D4). Also adding a spare mcr220 to my 320, and I bought a microsres v2 and a bitspower temp sensor to fit it. Along with the mcubed gear I bought the AC High Flow meter as well, and I may attempt the D5 vario rpm lead mod when it arrives to hook up to the second flow port. I also have a boatload of GELID wing fans that I have to install. I know the gentle typhoon was probably better, but these were inexpensive and high quality, about half the price.

My wife is away for two weeks, but she loaded up on the honey-do list before she left :shakes: But I'll squeeze in some time to play, and let you know how I make out after the dust has settled.:up:

Grinder

06-26-2010, 04:34 AM

NKrader, did you decide what to get?

I kinda borrowed your thread here, I should at least pay my respects to the OP :p:

lowfat

07-15-2010, 09:03 AM

Has anyone ran a DDC on their BigNG/MiniNG? I will most likely be doing it w/ my upcoming build. Just want to make sure I do it right and not kill the pump.

Grinder

07-29-2010, 08:02 AM

Grinder, I'm curious to hear your impressions after using the T-balancer for a while, if you don't mind sharing.

I finally got this installed, but haven't configured it yet. So I'll provide some impressions in a while, but wanted to give a heads up that it's powered up and working.

I had no issues installing software on win 7 x64 (yet), basically installed the usb driver then the navigator software (not even sure what version was on the cd lol, as I'm at work), and everything seems to be functioning, i.e. no crashes and I can see temp, rpm, and flow readings from the BigNG, MiniNG, Sensor Hub, and AC High Flow meter.

All the fans are spinning, except a couple that are suffering from a bad splitter. I'm running 6 Gelid wing 12's on channel a of the mini (external 320 rad), with a 140 and 120 Koolance (case ventilation at bottom and "blowhole") on channel b. On the big I have an intake fan (bottom front, where the tbal is installed) on channel 1, Antec spot cools on channel 2 and 3 respectively for mosfet and ram, and 4 2200 rpm startech double ball bearing 120's (internal 220 rad) on channel 4.

I'll likely configure it this weekend. If no problems, I'll follow up after I've tweaked and used it for a while. :up: I'm not running my mcp650 and mcp655 from the tbal. Having all those fans as well as 14 temp sensors is playing hell on my cable management in my brand new in box but ancient swa8000 armor :)

NKrader

07-29-2010, 08:19 AM

NKrader, did you decide what to get?

I kinda borrowed your thread here, I should at least pay my respects to the OP :p:

ive accually changed my plans a bit sence then.

will be using BigNG. as i will be using 4 of those 210cfm pwm deltas :D

Grinder

07-29-2010, 05:21 PM

Hovercraft?

Grinder

07-29-2010, 05:27 PM

@ 0xdeadbeef, and any other tbalancer gurus :)

I've determined Navigator 2.8 was what I installed from the cd that shipped with my gear. Is it worth going to 3.2 on win 7 x64? Do I need to uninstall first? Flash firmware before or after? I'll check the mcubed site tomorrow, time for bed...

0xdeadbeef

07-29-2010, 11:00 PM

I'm using the new v2.12 version of Navigator with the old v3.2 firmware. The latest firmware is v3.4 I think and it's an alpha version.

The v2.12 Navigator is a later version than v2.8 and v2.9... The new version supports dual miniNGs and distributed environment. If I understand correctly you can have bigNG installed in one machine and manage everything via IP with Navigator from another system. You don't need to install the server application if you are running everything in one machine.

Remember if you decide to use old v3.2 firmware with new version of Navigator like me, you will have some options in Navigator that is not going to work. In order to have all features you need to use v3.4 firmware. It doesn't matter for me because I don't use dual miniNG or distributed environment. My bigNG/miniNG controls my pumps and fans and wanted to keep the v3.2 firmware because it's very stable.

Grinder

07-30-2010, 07:02 AM

Well, I have 2.8 Navigator and the latest usb drivers, but I'm not sure what version the firmware is. I looked under help/info and it showed some data there, but I don't recall seeing the firmware version. I'll check when I get home.

How do I flash it? I didn't see instructions in the BigNG manual. I found the pdf doc for 1.2 -> 2.0, but I expect that's quite old, and my Nav is already version 2. I clicked on firmware in the 2.8 Nav and I think it said something about an external program.

So. Uninstall 2.8, install 2.12 (but not the server) and use the menu option there to flash? You said 3.2 was very stable. Is that to say 3.4 may not be? Or you are just playing it safe. I could run with 2.9/3.2, since I don't think there is anything I really need from 2.12, i.e. I don't need or want the server, and only have one miniNG.

Sorry if I'm being obtuse, but I really don't want to mess up a flash! Thanks for all your help.

EDIT:

I read a bit of the mcubed forum. Sounds like 3.4 fixed a bug with startup being analog rather than PWM that would be nice to have. Will 3.4 and 2.9 Navigator play nice together?

You are using 2.12 in which mode, VCP or IP?

needforspeed

07-30-2010, 08:18 AM

I have the bng with 8 fans on 2 channels and dual pumps mcp 355 on a single channel. It never even warms up ..its the greatest thing since water cooling itself..I use res water temps for my curves.You can d/l the software from the website and play with all the settings even with out a bng installed...that was how i decided to get one..:up:

I am trying to figure whats needed to run 2 355's from what you say above you are able to run both from 1 BNG channel.. arnt they 20W,, and 2 pumps at 18w each?

Or did you mean a single channel for each pump?.

thanks

0xdeadbeef

07-30-2010, 09:38 AM

Well, I have 2.8 Navigator and the latest usb drivers, but I'm not sure what version the firmware is. I looked under help/info and it showed some data there, but I don't recall seeing the firmware version. I'll check when I get home.

Select "Help->Info" again and your version is in the Device Information section: "32" is v3.2 and "34" is v3.4.

How do I flash it? I didn't see instructions in the BigNG manual. I found the pdf doc for 1.2 -> 2.0, but I expect that's quite old, and my Nav is already version 2. I clicked on firmware in the 2.8 Nav and I think it said something about an external program.

Update with the utility included in the firmware package or with update menu in Navigator. The firmware package utility ("Update TBAN bigNG.exe") always worked well for me, never tried the tool in Navigator.

So. Uninstall 2.8, install 2.12 (but not the server) and use the menu option there to flash? You said 3.2 was very stable. Is that to say 3.4 may not be? Or you are just playing it safe. I could run with 2.9/3.2, since I don't think there is anything I really need from 2.12, i.e. I don't need or want the server, and only have one miniNG.

I don't think v3.4 is broken or anything but stability is everything for me. Have been using v3.2 for years without any problems. There must be a really good reason to update a critical system that manages all my pumps and fans. Like you I don't need the Server and I have only one miniNG.

I read a bit of the mcubed forum. Sounds like 3.4 fixed a bug with startup being analog rather than PWM that would be nice to have. Will 3.4 and 2.9 Navigator play nice together?

I don't know. I have tried v2.8, v2.9 and v2.12 Navigator with v3.2 firmware without problem. I also tried v2.12 with v3.4 but rolled back to v3.2 after some minor problems with PWM.

You are using 2.12 in which mode, VCP or IP?

In "Options->USB Connection" I have "Device driver (API)" selected.

What device driver are you using? Windows Update or manual download? Go to Windows Device Manager and check "Ports->USB Serial Port". What's your version number? There was a problem with early Windows Update drivers last year. If you had WIndows 7 and used Windows Update you would have some problem, even BSODs. Get latest driver here (v2.06.02):

http://www.ftdichip.com/Drivers/VCP.htm

Sorry if I'm being obtuse, but I really don't want to mess up a flash! Thanks for all your help.

No problem, it's fun to help!

Grinder

07-30-2010, 10:24 AM

I'm using VCP drivers from the site you provided. Do I need to explicitly install API drivers? Or the >2.8 Navigator lets you specify?

I'll try 2.12/3.4. In hindsight your PWM probs were fan, not firmware?

I'll try the external flash program. So, uninstall 2.8, install 2.12, flash, fire up Navigator but not Server, and set it to API.

:toast:

0xdeadbeef

07-31-2010, 12:31 AM

I'm using VCP drivers from the site you provided. Do I need to explicitly install API drivers? Or the >2.8 Navigator lets you specify?

I read somewhere long time ago (don't remember exactly where) that one should always try API first and only switch to VCP if API doesn't work. I don't have any special drivers except what is included in T-balancer v2.12 and Win7 x64. Maybe the latest VCP driver it's not necessary if you use API but I install it anyways because of my problems with Windows Update last year (BSODs and stuff during boot). If you don't install it manually Windows Update will and that can cause problems even though you don't use VCP.

I'll try 2.12/3.4. In hindsight your PWM probs were fan, not firmware?

Yes, that's right, it was my San Aces that didn't like PWM very much. Switched to analogue and everything worked well again. I rolled back to v3.2 the same time just to be sure.

But there are some differences on how bigNG handles PWM between v3.2 and v3.4. Read the official thread for v2.12 and you will see some people having issues because of these changes. It's not a problem for me today but it's still a reason to keep the v3.2 firmware until I know more.

Dr.Joe

07-31-2010, 03:19 AM

ive accually changed my plans a bit sence then.

will be using BigNG. as i will be using 4 of those 210cfm pwm deltas :D

Let me guess... these delta fans have 4 pin fan connectors?

If thats the case, then you're mixing up the PWM from 4-Pin PWM fans, and the PWM from 3 pin fancontrollers...

Grinder

07-31-2010, 03:55 AM

Let me guess... these delta fans have 4 pin fan connectors?

If thats the case, then you're mixing up the PWM from 4-Pin PWM fans, and the PWM from 3 pin fancontrollers...

Yeah, I tried to tell him this before. Not sure he saw it, but I almost ordered a bunch of PWM fans for my rads (10) but realized my mistake in time. Of course, you CAN use them on a bigNG without the blue wire, but whether there would be space to fit them on the 3 pin fan connectors, I'm not sure.

Grinder

07-31-2010, 04:05 AM

I read somewhere long time ago (don't remember exactly where) that one should always try API first and only switch to VCP if API doesn't work. I don't have any special drivers except what is included in T-balancer v2.12 and Win7 x64. Maybe the latest VCP driver it's not necessary if you use API but I install it anyways because of my problems with Windows Update last year (BSODs and stuff during boot). If you don't install it manually Windows Update will and that can cause problems even though you don't use VCP.

Yes, that's right, it was my San Aces that didn't like PWM very much. Switched to analogue and everything worked well again. I rolled back to v3.2 the same time just to be sure.

But there are some differences on how bigNG handles PWM between v3.2 and v3.4. Read the official thread for v2.12 and you will see some people having issues because of these changes. It's not a problem for me today but it's still a reason to keep the v3.2 firmware until I know more.

Well, I'm up and running with 3.4/2.12, but haven't really tuned anything yet. It was a little painful to install. After I uninstalled 2.8 and installed 2.12, the flash prog wouldn't work. After some time digging through the mcubed forum, I registered a dozen or so ocx files in command prompt while running as administrator using regsrvr32.

After flashing from 3.2->3.4, the miniNG rebooted and the alarm kicked in. While I was expecting this, the Navigator menu was now in German and it took a while to find out how to switch it to English. I knew I had to transfer the default settings, but it wasn't yet in API mode. So I had to stumble around a while before getting English set up, so that I could see what I was doing to set API mode and transfer the default, with the alarm going the whole time :mad:

Anyway, it seems to be up and running, but I haven't tried much with it yet. Will keep you posted, and thanks for the help!