Long term viability of Bitspower 1/2" fittings + Tygon 1/2" ID *without* clamps?

[Nickel020]

I know the clamps/no clamps has been discussed a million times before but I'd like to hear some long-term experiences with this specific combination: The normal Bitspower 1/2" fittings (aka fatboys) with clear Tygon 1/2" ID - 3/4" OD.

Does the tubing get looser on the fittings with time? Right now the fit is tight enough for me not to use clamps but I'm afraid that after several months the tubing may widen a little bit and not sit so tightly on the fittings anymore.
I'm asking this because I noticed that Masterkleer 7/16" ID on the 1/2" fatboys did get a little looser after some time. I did use hot water though when putting the tubing over the fittings so, I don't know if this has any long term effect on the tubing.

[Feklar]

I would never use 1/2" id over 1/2" barbs without a clamp. Worm gear or the Koolance ones are good. Compressions work well. You are asking for trouble using 1/2" id over 1/2" barbs without clamps. Not worth the risk. 3/8" id over 1/2" barbs without clamps works well though.

[Nickel020]

Well that's what many people say, but I've never heard of anyone's tubing actually coming off. I'm not sure whether the recommendation to use clamps is based on a myth or not.

[Humminn55]

You cannot determine the tubing's ability to remain in place simply by pulling on it. Of course by pulling on it the tubing resists coming off....akin to a Chinese finger handcuff.

On the other hand, in a cooling loop, you have pressure being exerted on the tubing internally, sort of like blowing up a balloon. Add to that the slight warming of the tubing from the coolant and I'd honestly think you've got a recipe for problems.

I value my components to never trust tubing over barbs without clamps, and that includes the 3/8" x 5/8" tubing I run that's put over a pair of 1/2" barbs on my Thermochill radiator....although the tubing in this case probably would never come off, I still use clamps.

But, heck, if you place little value in your components and can replace any that potentially get damaged without regard to down time and cost, go for it. It does look cleaner, but the potential downsides far outweigh a "look".

[Waterlogged]

Well that's what many people say, but I've never heard of anyone's tubing actually coming off. I'm not sure whether the recommendation to use clamps is based on a myth or not.

Not. ;)

. . .and this was 3/8" x 5/8" on 1/2" barbs.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3731479&postcount=52

I think 1/2" I.D. tubing would come off a bit easier given the proper conditions.

[gmat]

Not even coming off, but just heating up *will* loosen the tube over the barb enough for it to leak.

[Nickel020]

I know it all depends on pressure and at what kind of radiuses (sic?) you use your tubing. But if you look at the post that Waterlogged has postec the quoted guy said his tubing blew off from compressions. I said that I haven't heard/don't rememember hearing about tubing blowing off, meaning that while it may happen, it is rare, and a risk like any other when it comes to watercooling. The question is whether it really is a big risk for my loop, considering how it's set up.

I'm only gonna be using one MCP350 most of the time (it has a switch to do the MCP350>MCP355 mod) so I don't have all that much pressure in my loop. Also there's only the CPU and the GPU in the loop, so there are no tight radiuses.

Right now I'm using Feser compressions and while leak testing I noticed that one fitting was leaking slightly because I did not fasten it tightly enough and the tubing wasn't sitting on the fitting perfectly anymore. I don't like them all that much and I'm not really sure whether they're all that safer than barbs without clamps.

[Nickel020]

Or does anyone where I can get some decent looking metal clamps, preferably in Europe? I like the Koolance ones shown here (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3725758&postcount=3), but they seem to only come with the Koolance fittings which I don't need/want and I don't want to shell out 50€ for fittings because I like the clamps...

The ones offered by Aquatuning look like extremely poor quality to me (as usual...).

[Church]

IIRC Koolance clamps don't come with K's fittings but can be bought separately, i've seen them in several liquid cooling online shops. Just browse arround. It might differ under which section though .. accessories / tubing .. or clamps? :)

[Fatfool]

Or does anyone where I can get some decent looking metal clamps, preferably in Europe? I like the Koolance ones shown here (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3725758&postcount=3), but they seem to only come with the Koolance fittings which I don't need/want and I don't want to shell out 50€ for fittings because I like the clamps...

The ones offered by Aquatuning look like extremely poor quality to me (as usual...).
You're not going to try herbie clips?

They tend to be large but easily removed when needed.

[Nickel020]

That's exactly why I'm asking, aesthetics only comes second to safety & performance. I want to make sure that I get no leaks. So basically I'm trying to figure out whether no clamps is safe enough and the whole "you need clamps" thing is just a myth or whether I should really get clamps. I don't fully trust compressions either as you can't see whether the tubing actually sits perfectly all the way on the tubing.

I prefer the look of just fittings. But I like the look of compressions better than the look of fittings + ugly clamps. I'm just trying to find a good safety vs. looks compromise here.

But I think I found some clamps that look decent enough. Chilledpc.co.uk (http://www.chilledpc.co.uk/shop/product_info.php?cPath=72_165&products_id=1314)actually has some Koolance clamps by themselves. They don't look exactly the same like the ones I linked in my previous post but they're close.

Edit: Should hit F5 before posting...

IIRC Koolance clamps don't come with K's fittings but can be bought separately, i've seen them in several liquid cooling online shops. Just browse arround. It might differ under which section though .. accessories / tubing .. or clamps? :)
The German shops didn't ahve them, but as I said I found them :)


You're not going to try herbie clips?

They tend to be large but easily removed when needed.

I don't like their looks, I'd rather stick with the compressions I have now.

[Fatfool]

That's exactly why I'm asking, aesthetics only comes second to safety & performance. I want to make sure that I get no leaks. So basically I'm trying to figure out whether no clamps is safe enough and the whole "you need clamps" thing is just a myth or whether I should really get clamps. I don't fully trust compressions either as you can't see whether the tubing actually sits perfectly all the way on the tubing.

I prefer the look of just fittings. But I like the look of compressions better than the look of fittings + ugly clamps. I'm just trying to find a good safety vs. looks compromise here.

But I think I found some clamps that look decent enough. Chilledpc.co.uk (http://www.chilledpc.co.uk/shop/product_info.php?cPath=72_165&products_id=1314)actually has some Koolance clamps by themselves. They don't look exactly the same like the ones I linked in my previous post but they're close.

Edit: Should hit F5 before posting...

The German shops didn't ahve them, but as I said I found them :)



I don't like their looks, I'd rather stick with the compressions I have now.
I see.

I found some too :D

http://specialtech.co.uk/spshop/customer/product.php?productid=11437&cat=1263&page=1

[Nickel020]

These are similar to the ones from Aquatuning, the Koolance ones I linked seem to be nickel or chrome plated and provide a much cleaner look. I'm really picky about those things :D

[Fatfool]

These are similar to the ones from Aquatuning, the Koolance ones I linked seem to be nickel or chrome plated and provide a much cleaner look. I'm really picky about those things :D
I see :D

[sniperbob]

you MIGHT also be able to find them through an auto parts store. IIRC, some import models such as VW use the Koolance style clamps on all of their cars instead of worm-drive style clamps. Something to look into for a cheap alternative.

[dejanh]

I really think you should run without clamps, preferably without leak testing. It's definitely the way to go. After all, clamps are a total myth and nobody ever reported leaks when not using clamps :rolleyes:

Also it doubles up as a great hardware upgrade motivator :)

[Nickel020]

Great job on replying without reading and/or understanding the thread dejanh...

[pizan]

I have heard of people using 7/16" on 1/2" without clamps but idk no clamps scares me. Look into the Koolance clamps

BTW the plural of radius is radii.

[NKrader]

i run the fitting off of my res into my pump without clamps with 1/2 tube and 1/2 in barb.. they are so hard to pull off..

[Manicdan]

i never run without clamps. there are situations u just cant prepare for. like when my pump wasnt working and i ended up boiling water on the cpu block, i cant imagine the pressure then, but it could have been enough to cause a hose to pop off. not from the pressure, but from the heat expanding the tube enough so it could easily pop off.

i like the idea of tie wraps and the gun, since those are quite cheap, but a 12 pack of clamps like like 4$ and they dont go bad, but some may look rusted over time.

i would really like a nicer more appealing, reusable clamp that can come in different colors, like black, lol
but im all for safety first, and to do all clams is still cheaper than 1 compression fitting

[yngndrw]

You cannot determine the tubing's ability to remain in place simply by pulling on it.
I'd argue that you can.

While building my loop, before I had tightened the clamp I found that with 1/2"ID Tygon and EK barbs that the connections were not at all "tight" - You could easily pull them off without the clamp. In this case it was easy to see that it would not have been safe.

[ascl]

My experience with Tygon 1/2 ID and BP barbs is they are very tight. So much so that I have no idea how some of you manage to fit smaller ID tubing over them (7/16, someone said 3/8!!). I needed hot water for some of the barbs as was.

I do have clamps however. For the cost of clamps, I'd rather have the piece of mind and dry gear.

[millertime359]

If you really don't want to run without clamps, just get some zipties and the ziptie gun. That should be enough to keep the tubing on, you would just want to make certain that you get those zipties tight.

[Kozato]

The effort required to install smaller tubings over bigger barbs is not worth it. Many times when I did that I almost wanted to give up watercooling. Now I am back to compressions.

[Stewie007]

I wonder why there is so much discussion about whether or not to use clamps. I think its pretty obvious that going without clamps is stupid. All it takes is one leak. Is that really worth the risk because you either don't like the "look" of clamps or are too cheap to get them...? :p:

[overclocking101]

lol @ dejanh :D I havent used claps of any kind in years now, not saying its safe, but havent had a blowout using 7/16 tygon over 1/2 BP fatboys. I wouldnt do it with 1/2 though it fits much more loose than 7/16 if I absolutley have to use a clmp I use zip ties but only when I have to, like if the tubing has a ton of resistance on it (i.e. at a 90/45 angle without an angled adapter etc) clamps look crappy imo and i change my loop/tubing every 2 months or so so it never gets worn.


I wonder why there is so much discussion about whether or not to use clamps. I think its pretty obvious that going without clamps is stupid. All it takes is one leak. Is that really worth the risk because you either don't like the "look" of clamps or are too cheap to get them...? :p:

yes imo it is. as long as you know the risks and are ready to pay the price, if you do it because you are to cheap then I feel bad for you, but I like the look of clean tubing.

[dejanh]

Great job on replying without reading and/or understanding the thread dejanh...

Well next time don't start a thread asking about "viability with no clamps" or whatever. I am all about helping people but sometimes I just cannot help but point out what would amount to pure stupidity. Would you plumb your house without clamps?

If you want the answer to your question it is simple...eventually you will spring a leak and ruin hardware, and the cause will always be not using clamps. End of story.

:)


lol @ dejanh :D I havent used claps of any kind in years now, not saying its safe, but havent had a blowout using 7/16 tygon over 1/2 BP fatboys. I wouldnt do it with 1/2 though it fits much more loose than 7/16 if I absolutley have to use a clmp I use zip ties but only when I have to, like if the tubing has a ton of resistance on it (i.e. at a 90/45 angle without an angled adapter etc) clamps look crappy imo and i change my loop/tubing every 2 months or so so it never gets worn.



yes imo it is. as long as you know the risks and are ready to pay the price, if you do it because you are to cheap then I feel bad for you, but I like the look of clean tubing.

You'll be back here eventually and your thread title will certainly involve a leak ;) :p: :D

[astrodanco]

While building my loop, before I had tightened the clamp I found that with 1/2"ID Tygon and EK barbs that the connections were not at all "tight" - You could easily pull them off without the clamp. In this case it was easy to see that it would not have been safe.
Same with Feser compressions. IMO, they're wimpy. I would not wish them on my worst enemy.

Bitspower compressions are much better in this regard. They're not coming off without a fight. Just to look at the design you wouldn't think it would be that much different, but it is.

[Humminn55]

I'd argue that you can.

While building my loop, before I had tightened the clamp I found that with 1/2"ID Tygon and EK barbs that the connections were not at all "tight" - You could easily pull them off without the clamp. In this case it was easy to see that it would not have been safe.


I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say.

What I meant was that when you try to pull tubing off a barb, you stretch the plastic/vinyl a little, essentially making the tubing "grab" the barb harder, which is not representative of the fluid pressure/heat dynamics that are present in an operating cooling loop.

And most of what I've read in posts about tubing-barb fitment and not wanting to use clamps almost always includes "The tubing's hard to pull off the barb, therefore it doesn't need clamps/zip ties/etc."



But I agree, if you can easily pull the tubing off the barbs, as you said you did, then obviously clamps were needed. But I feel clamps are simple, cheap insurance against stupid accidents/leaks.

I use the Koolance spring clamps. Unobtrusive, easy on, easy off.

[NKrader]

^not even remotly scared of leak. those tubes are damnnear impossible to pull off..

[dud3man]

ive used dd fat boy bards , in my friends build, with 1/2id tubing never had a problem with leaking.

[jbartlett323]

If you really don't want to run without clamps, just get some zipties and the ziptie gun. That should be enough to keep the tubing on, you would just want to make certain that you get those zipties tight.

Exactly! who needs clamps! they are easy to put on, cheap, easy to remove, cheap, stylish, and they come in all colors of the rainbow. And did i mention that at just a couple bucks for a hundred at the local hardware store, they are cheap?!:D:up:
But what is this gun you speak of? I usually just use a small pair of needle nose pliers to pull em tight :D

[millertime359]

http://www.tecratools.com/media/productImages/46120.jpg

here is the link (http://www.tecratools.com/product563.html).

They get the ties really tight and cut them clean and flush. You might have times you can't use it as space may become an issue, but where you can, it is a great tool.

[Fatfool]

i would really like a nicer more appealing, reusable clamp that can come in different colors, like black, lol
but im all for safety first, and to do all clams is still cheaper than 1 compression fitting

Herbie clips?

http://www.students.tut.fi/~huotari2/Seawolf/063.jpg

Just bought 30 of em' (23-B) off ebay for my 1/4" ID 3/8" OD tubes.

http://cgi.ebay.com.sg/Herbie-Clips-Size-23-B-0-32-to-0-38-10-per-pkg_W0QQitemZ230450876483QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Def aultDomain_0?hash=item35a7f15043#ht_1016wt_939

[Waterlogged]

I despise herbies.

Aside from the Koolance clamps (http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&search_in_description=1&keyword=clm), there are a handful of similar clamps sold by Primochill (http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&search_in_description=1&keyword=prc) for those wanting black.

[Nickel020]

Well next time don't start a thread asking about "viability with no clamps" or whatever. I am all about helping people but sometimes I just cannot help but point out what would amount to pure stupidity. Would you plumb your house without clamps?

If you want the answer to your question it is simple...eventually you will spring a leak and ruin hardware, and the cause will always be not using clamps. End of story.


You claim it is pure stupidity, but you can't prove it, and it's proof I'm asking for. The only proof that clamps may be needed is Waterlooged's link, but by that post compressions aren't safe either. And several people posted here that do use tubing without clamps without problems and you have no proof whatsoever that they actually have a higher chance of getting a leak.

The stupidity here is on your part, for not questioning things you read and actually thinking for yourself. You have no clue whatsoever how tight Tygon fits on the BP fitting, whether it will loosen after time, and how high the chance is of it loosening enough to blow.

For those who just want peace of mind a clamp is a good idea. But there's no proof at all that there's a high chance of tubing blowing off without clamps.

Trying to assemble some proof is apparently very hard though as you'll end up getting spammed to death by mindless fanboys repeating unsubstantiated claims of things they've read somewhere which therefore must be true :rolleyes:

[Waterlogged]

You claim it is pure stupidity, but you can't prove it, and it's proof I'm asking for. The only proof that clamps may be needed is Waterlooged's link, but by that post compressions aren't safe either. And several people posted here that do use tubing without clamps without problems and you have no proof whatsoever that they actually have a higher chance of getting a leak.

The stupidity here is on your part, for not questioning things you read and actually thinking for yourself. You have no clue whatsoever how tight Tygon fits on the BP fitting, whether it will loosen after time, and how high the chance is of it loosening enough to blow.

For those who just want peace of mind a clamp is a good idea. But there's no proof at all that there's a high chance of tubing blowing off without clamps.

Trying to assemble some proof is apparently very hard though as you'll end up getting spammed to death by mindless fanboys repeating unsubstantiated claims of things they've read somewhere which therefore must be true :rolleyes:

Actually, BP's (and most likely Fester's, seeing that they share the same design) are the only unsafe comps. Most other compression fittings use an actual barb as part of the locking mechanism. BP and Fester do not have this barb as part of their design. I also suspect EK as a possible problematic design due to the quasi barb (rounded lip) on them, which is still more than what BP is using. That same rounded lip is what caused tubing to slip off the EK barbs so easily as well, in general, a bad concept for something that is supposed to help hold the tubing in place. ;)

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=83762&d=1218962250

[millertime359]

I despise herbies.



+1

They are too much of a pain to use. You have to align them just right, otherwise you will have to cut them to get them off.

@ OP

I've seen plenty of people using 7/16 over 1/2 inch with no clamps, I haven't seen any reports of doing it with 1/2 though.

I've seen some of the reports of tubing coming off too. All I can say is if you want to do it, do it. If you don't get a leak, great. Report it back to us.

For me, I will always use some sort of clamp, be it a comp fitting, ziptie, or actual clamp. I just feel better with the little extra security. I just prefer to minimize any risk of a leak.

If you feel your tubing is secure without any clamps, then that is your choice. :)

[dejanh]

No, I absolutely have no clue how BP fits with Tygon, obviously a few years owning and working with both has thought me nothing.

I mean my primary rig right now is not with Tygon Norprene 1/2", and I do not have another 10 spare feet of it in my closet for future builds, and I most definitely am not using BP 1/2" barbs and rotaries all round. So OP, you're absolutely right, I certainly have no clue what I am talking about.

Not to mention that I never even used another kind of tubing, like say LRT, or generic reinforced tubing, or compressions, or anything. Wait, what am I even doing in this section?! I thought this was air cooling!

I must have gotten confused somewhere :p:

:rolleyes:

[jetroho]

dejanh,
I admire your restraint . As another mindless fanboi , I have no idea why people ask for advice and then flame the advisors . oh well
For the op . I wish you the best of luck . And I hope your parts stay dry !
But it is still ill advised to run with no form of hose clamps .
Best of Luck.............
j

[Manicdan]

I despise herbies.

Aside from the Koolance clamps (http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&search_in_description=1&keyword=clm), there are a handful of similar clamps sold by Primochill (http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&search_in_description=1&keyword=prc) for those wanting black.

those look nice for being easy to work with, but i was thinking of still worm gear like clamps where i choose how much force is applied.

i know from experience that cheap tubing from a hardware store for 50c per foot is very tough and will eventually mold to the shape, hard to get it on or off a barb because its shape isnt flexable, that also means that over time it will be more prone to leaking as it dosnt keep pressure on it. tygon isnt as bad, but still does it, i can take off clamps and it seems to be a nice tight fit, but ive never done that with the pump on cause i was taking a loop apart at that time

in the end i still like worm gears the best, cause i know if i pull as hard as possible, the tubing is probably going to break or rip before the clamp lets go of it. now if someone built nice looking ones, then i think we would have a good product

[samurai]

hmm you can get danger den perfect seal hose barbs they are 16mm OD exactly the samelike swiftech mpc655 hose barbs and work good with feser tubes 13/19mm without clamps :)

http://www.abload.de/thumb/dsc03799fbxu.jpg (http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=dsc03799fbxu.jpg) http://www.abload.de/thumb/dsc06784fxu8.jpg (http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=dsc06784fxu8.jpg) http://www.abload.de/thumb/dsc06791wbqu.jpg (http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=dsc06791wbqu.jpg) http://www.abload.de/thumb/dsc06781n9zc.jpg (http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=dsc06781n9zc.jpg)

[Ogge_swe]

i run 7/16 on 1/2 barbs without clamps :D

[Nickel020]

@millertime359

Thank you for an actually useful post.

@dejanh

You can drive a car without understanding how it works, you can use a PC without understanding how it works and you can own as much Tygon as you like without having any clue whatsoever whether there really is a high a risk of it blowing off the fittings. Did you ever use it without clamps? Did it blow off? As the answer is no, all you're doing is posting your opinion, which is useless to me as I asked for proof which requires facts.

If you were to actually look for facts you'd see that there are plenty of people in the pictures thread using fittings without clamps. Here are just a few examples from the last two weeks:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=4322132&postcount=2110
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=4320685&postcount=2098
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=4300431&postcount=2026
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=4334827&postcount=2191
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=4324679&postcount=2133

Either these people running without clamps are extremely lucky, or the risk being so high is just a myth. I strongly favor the latter, as reports of tubing blowing off are quite rare compared to the number of people who are running their system without clamps.

PS: Please stop replying to my posts, so far you've never posted anything useful.


@samurai
I'm already looking at the Perfect Seal fittings. I've got some 3/8" ones here, but I'm a bit hesitant because they don't have a groove for the O ring. And I don't have any 1/2" ones, while I have lots of BP fittings. The Koolance clamps should be here tomorrow hopefully, let's see if I like their feel and if not I'm maybe going for the DDs.

[Elpy]

I dont quite understand all the arguing going on here. I think it is pretty obvious that using barbs without clamps is risky and there is a high risk of having a tube pop out and ruin your hardware but it is not quaranteed to happen.

And of course there is still the risk even with compressions however that already is waaaay smaller than the risk without clamps. So as it has been said, if you are ready to take the risk of possibly losing your hardware over looks, dont use the clamps. Just remember that it's too late to cry if it actually happens and we WILL say "told you so"...

If you prefer to play it safer, get compressions or clamps. I dont really see any way that tubing is gonna get off compressions either unless you start pulling it off or something. Personally I'm not gonna risk 1500€ worth hardware just because not using clamps looks clean. I also think looks are important and for that reason I ended up investing in the compressions. Yes its :banana::banana::banana::banana:ing expensive but atleast it both looks good and is safe.

[NKrader]

They are too much of a pain to use. You have to align them just right, otherwise you will have to cut them to get them off.


i have read this a couple times now. and :shrug: they are super easy to use i love em.. i just dont like how they look. i use the koolance ones if any.. i dont run clamps on my tubies. :up:

[Nickel020]

I dont quite understand all the arguing going on here. I think it is pretty obvious that using barbs without clamps is risky and there is a high risk of having a tube pop out and ruin your hardware but it is not quaranteed to happen.

And of course there is still the risk even with compressions however that already is waaaay smaller than the risk without clamps. [...]



Well most people think it's obvious, but nobody is really able to prove it, and that's what I tried to do with this thread: assemble some proof one or the other way.

You cannot say that the risk is smaller with compressions, since you have no data. It would make sense, but that doesn't mean it's right. I mean almost everyone will agree that it makes sense that the faster you're allowed to drive on a motorway the more accidents will happen. But exactly the opposite has been proven here in Germany. The stretches where there's no limit are the ones with the fewest accidents. My point: What we think is obvious must not necessarily be true.

We have no substantial data to prove anything. We simply cannot say whether there's more risk of a 45° rotary leaking or tubing blowing off from fittings without clamps or compressions. Or even your PSU frying and killing all your hardware.

Again, I'm not saying clamps are completely unnecessary, I'm just questioning whether the risk of running without clamps is as high as people make it out to be.
If we figure out how different factors affect the risk of tubing blowing off we can figure out in which configurations it is "safe enough" not to use clamps. I think I've got some ideas on how to semi-scientifically prove the risks are not as big as people think - maybe I'll be back in a couple of weeks/months :)

[Elpy]

It's called common sense. And data isnt everything in this world. Especially with this this it's also a matter of luck. It is something that could just randomly happen so any kind of data will be complete useless. You've seen that there arent THAT much proof about leaks which probably makes you think that it could be pretty safe. But that still isnt data. Maybe a 1000 guys have used barbs without clamps and havent had any leaks but maybe the all just had luck. Maybe a there are only 2 threads about leaks happening here while there are 1000 guys that have had theirs leak and just havent happened to write about it to the internet.

We are talking about something that has a chance of happening so "data" wont really help you and it wont proof anything. Someone could make a test than says that in 2% of the cases, the tubing pops off. Then someone could make another test where tubing doesnt pop off even once. So obviously the first testers data didnt proof anything. Or atleast with this principle it's impossible to proof it.

And so yes I dont have data that compressions are safer way but you can use your head and think about it. Compressions fittings tighten the tubing to the fitting while obviously with barbs without clamps it just relies on the tubing itself. And of course when water gets warmer and warms the tubing too, it gets looser so it can pop off much easier. Even though the tubing with compressions gets warmer too, it's still being squeezed to the fitting.

And also I made a thread about this a while ago. Check post #20 http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=242568

But either way. I dont see the point of continuing this further. If it is only data that you are after, i can tell you this: Nobody here has data of how safe this is. So you can try it if you want or play it safer and use clamps. But no reason to keep questioning it.

edit:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=4185758&postcount=29
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3669000&postcount=40
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=4185960&postcount=32

[Humminn55]

Well most people think it's obvious, but nobody is really able to prove it, and that's what I tried to do with this thread: assemble some proof one or the other way.




I think the "proof" problem you're having assembling is due to almost everyone not being cavalier/stupid/ignorant enough to tempt fate and not use clamps, esp. on barbs and tubing that are the same size, i.e. 1/2" ID tubing over 1/2" OD barbs. So, little data can be obtained...almost everyone uses some sort of fastening device, be it a clamp or ziptie or whatever, on barbs.

And, yes, there have been a few cases in the past few years of unclamped tubing coming off barbs in worst case, leaking in most cases, and destroying componentry in the computer.

But, do you wear seat belts when you drive? If you do, why? Do you plan on crashing every time you drive? Probably not, but most sensible people do wear them. And why? Safety. While it'd probably be more comfortable and look better to not wear them, it's foolhardy to drive without using them.

As is always said, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. And the same can be said for using clamps. Sure, there are those who manage to do it without incident, but given the fact that even with clamps tubing leaks happen, running a loop without them is almost like playing Russian Roulette with only one chamber empty.

Now why would I possibly say that? It's just the dynamics of what's going on in a loop.

We use tubing that's primarily plastic/vinyl based. And since it's that base, it softens when heated.....if it didn't, the heating trick used to get 3/8" tubing over 1/2" barbs wouldn't work.....but it does, hence warming tubing from whatever source will soften the tubing.

Now, the pumps used in a typical loop puts out a few PSI in pressure. What pressure output the pump(s) has is dependent upon the pump itself, top used, etc. But there is pressure inside the tubing....that's a given.

Next, the coolant faces restriction to its flow....again, a given. This is from blocks, the tubing itself, barbs, radiators, etc. But cooling blocks, esp. the blocks on the cpu, are probably the most restrictive part of a loop.

So, you have warm fluid under pressure pushing against plastic/vinyl tubing looking for a way out. Granted, the path of least resistance is to just follow the tubing/flow path, but as you can see with the latest fitting-leaking thread, this isn't always the case. Fluid under pressure will look for any way out...including trying to lift the tubing off a barb. Maybe just enough to leak a bit, maybe enough to pop the tubing off a barb.

And I'd imagine the worst spot would be the barb at the entry barb into the cpu block. Highest point of restriction and usually the highest pressure point in the loop as most people put the cpu block first in line after the pump and maybe radiators (but radiators typically are very low resistance items, unless you're using BIX's or their relatives.)

But, it's your money and yours to spend any way you see fit. You want to repurchase components in your computer, so be it. Just don't be surprised, horrified, or come back crying when the tubing comes off and dumps the entire loop's coolant all over your case.

Clamps are cheap insurance, and besides, why would so many companies sell clamps all these years if they were truly worthless? And why would very, very experienced water cooling enthusiasts use them if they were completely unnecessary?

[Elpy]

But, do you wear seat belts when you drive? If you do, why? Do you plan on crashing every time you drive? Probably not, but most sensible people do wear them. And why? Safety. While it'd probably be more comfortable and look better to not wear them, it's foolhardy to drive without using them.
Actually I think it's quite uncomfortable to drive without seat belts. You just kind of weave from side to side quite easily. I drove like that once when I just had to drive a very small distance and the curves were really uncomfortable.

[shazza]

A request - let's keep this to the technical aspects of the question, and avoid the name calling / personal attacks.

@Nickel020 - if you want to go without clamps, then do it. It's your system. No way I would chance 1/2 inch ID tubing on 1/2 inch barbs without some type of clamps. I've run 3/8" and 7/16" tubing on 1/2" barbs without clamps for a period - but wouldn't do it if the PC was running unattended for long time periods. But, that's just my choice.

You can ask for data to prove clamps are (or are not) necessary - but you're not going to get a lot of useful information. There are too many variables, and each system is different.

[nyeah]

Well that's what many people say, but I've never heard of anyone's tubing actually coming off. I'm not sure whether the recommendation to use clamps is based on a myth or not.

it's not coming off but it's leaking in my case, testing pump with some old tubing.

[wez]

Only time I have not used some sort of clamps, has been for pure show-cases. Where the appearance where the main object. As soon as I got home I always clamped it in some way.
With your attitude, I sincerely hope you get a leak, Nickel020. Sometimes you have to learn the hard way I guess.

[astrodanco]

I dont run clamps on my tubies.
We wouldn't want you walking around with a clamp on your tubie, now would we? :eek:

[Manicdan]

theres a bit of a theory about the impact of a statistic, if i know that driving 10mph above the speed limit increases my chance of having a crash by 50% due to not braking in time, i can avoid that by giving myself more space. now i can drive faster, because i know all the variables and effects.

so for this theory, its ok not to use clamps IF:
1, you watch your system closely, checking weekly for any changes to the tubing's position or if air bubbles are appearing, or water that may have leaked out and is running down parts (thats the first thing, you dont see drips, you feel wet spots)
2, you build your rig to be a low pressure setup, reducing pump speed and using high flow blocks to prevent pressure from building up in certain sections of the loop.
3, you stick with soft rubbery tubing, that department store stuff will mold around the barbs quickly and they will leak, ive seen it myself, and i will never go back to that stuff if i dont have too
4, you value appearance over costs, for a show pc you might not care since it may not be used every day, and you have time to look it over carefully when your at the lan or event or whatever.

given those 4 things, each person should be able to determine for themselves what kind of solution fits them. there isnt going to be a statistic for leaks, and testing is not easy since a PC changes over time. ive had probably a dozen leaks in the i think 7 years ive been water cooling, never once have i broken any hardware, even though ive cleaned a pool of water off motherboards before. my opinion is do what you want and just be aware of what goes with it. i still used my T3 after i herd all the problems they had, i just moved it out of the PC and into a cardboard box, just to be sure.