Have I Been Ripped Off?

[TrevorMcPoonage]

Just under 2 years ago I bought all the parts for my new pc build, including a EVGA 9800GX2. It recently started playing up, so i had it sent back under it's two year warranty (extended to 10 year as I had registered it within 30 days of purchase). What they sent me back was a EVGA GTX 260 216 core version. I have looked this card up, and it is not as good as my old 9800GX2 by a long shot.

What should I do? :shrug:

[zalbard]

You have IMO. How about asking them to send you something better, 275 at least?

[TrevorMcPoonage]

It's an GTX 260 Core 216 SSC edition. Can somebody confirm that this card is indeed worse than the 9800GX2?

I play empire total war, crysis, call of duty modw2. So which crad would be better for these games. I dont want to open it yet as i might try to send it back.

[WARDOZER9]

Here is the only comparison I could find with both cards in it.

GTX 260/280 vs. 9800GX2 (http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/602/6)

Hmm, after reading that, they'd have to send you a GTX 280 or GTX 285 to give you a card with similar performance o_O. Send them that link and tell them you want something that is comparable to what you had and that you are a bit insulted by the GTX 260 being slower almost completely accross the board.

Now I know the GTX 260 they used in that review could have been a 192 but I was looking at the GTX 280 numbers tbh and that lost to the 9800GX2 more than it won so I'd say it's failry safe to assume that the GTX 260 Core 216 SSC is no GTX 280 and therefore would be even slower.

I'd honestly push for a GTX 285 or GTX 280 SSC.

[malkiewicz]

The 9800GX2 is still considered to be an excellent card and it beats the GTX 260 & GTX 280 in most tests. The only real issue with the 9800 is that the card runs hot IMO...

[TrevorMcPoonage]

Yes that's what I thought. Thankyou very much for that link Wardozer9.

Yeah the 9800GX2 did run hot, I managed to cool it down by leaving the fan on 100% when running games, and took off the case to clean out the dust. it was reaching 100 degrees even with fan maxed out at one point, but it was full of dust. After I cleaned it out it never went past 82 (which I believe is acceptable although not good).

[zanzabar]

the entire g200b line is EOL so i dont think that they would give up a 275 or 285 without a fight, i would ask for a 295 as u sent in a dual card and u should want one back then they will say no but they may offer a 285 or 275

[overclocking101]

I would call them on the phone and get immmediate results if you do it voa email they may just boink you around for a while. the phone always works best for me with evga

[TrevorMcPoonage]

Ok, but what number do I call? The number on the support section is based in germany and I dont speak german? lol.

[lowfat]

That is definitely not a fair card to get back for warranty. Hopefully they can set things straight.

[H2O]

Yeah you're kind of in a tight spot as the GTX275/280/285 are EOLed and EVGA is neither receiving any new boards nor selling them. You could wait a month or so and see if Nvidia comes out with a new midrange card (I believe they were showing GTX375s at CeBIT) or you could ask for an upgrade to a GTX295 and pay the difference.

[zanzabar]

you could also ask for a full refund of the original perches price since they cant give an equivalent, then buy something better like a 5870

and call the worst that could happen is that they have no1 that speaks what u do buy i doubt that will happen as most people in business speak English or have some1 who dose that u can speak to who they work with

[LiquidReactor]

It's an GTX 260 Core 216 SSC edition. Can somebody confirm that this card is indeed worse than the 9800GX2?

I play empire total war, crysis, call of duty modw2. So which crad would be better for these games. I dont want to open it yet as i might try to send it back.

In all those games your new card is going to be moderatly to severly better. Remember 9800GX2 has only 512mb ram per card while GTX 260 has 896mb which counts a lot in ETW or MoDW2. As for Crysis...well who the :banana::banana::banana::banana: cares since neither of those cards will make it playable on a 24" anyways.

[TrevorMcPoonage]

Here is the reply to an email I sent to EVGA as an enquirey.

Dear Mr. xxxxxxx

The GTX 260 Core 216 is more powerful than the 9800 GX2.

While it is correct that there are benchmarks where the GX2 wins, the GTX 260 wins where it matters: In higher resolution (1600 and above) and with Antilaliasing enabled (4x or above.) You also have more effective RAM (896 for the single GPU instead of 512 MB for each GPU) which enables you to choose higher texture resolution with no impact on performance.

The GTX 260 is based on the GT200 chip and also offers a better architecture compared to G92 with larger on-chip caches and better thread scheduling. This helps to get a real-world performance close to 100% of the theoretical peak performance.




Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards

My monitor's max resolution is 1680 x 1050 so is this card better or not?

[ReverendMaynard]

Here is the reply to an email I sent to EVGA as an enquirey.

Dear Mr. xxxxxxx

The GTX 260 Core 216 is more powerful than the 9800 GX2.

While it is correct that there are benchmarks where the GX2 wins, the GTX 260 wins where it matters: In higher resolution (1600 and above) and with Antilaliasing enabled (4x or above.) You also have more effective RAM (896 for the single GPU instead of 512 MB for each GPU) which enables you to choose higher texture resolution with no impact on performance.

The GTX 260 is based on the GT200 chip and also offers a better architecture compared to G92 with larger on-chip caches and better thread scheduling. This helps to get a real-world performance close to 100% of the theoretical peak performance.




Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards

My monitor's max resolution is 1680 x 1050 so is this card better or not?

Not better. Also, look at the price point of both cards at their time of release. I remember the 9800GX2 was $649.99 - $700, and the GTX260 216 was around $349.99 - $400 (in Canada). I've owned both of these cards in their prime and the GX2 was and still is a beast in comparison. The 260 216 is a great card but at their respective release times, they were in a completely different class. The 260 216 would be high end (285 would be enthusiast) and the GX2 would have been considered enthusiast.

I wouldn't accept anything lower than a GTX285 for replacement.

[labs23]

Snip...

My monitor's max resolution is 1680 x 1050 so is this card better or not?

You could've mentioned your res. before... It sounds doable TBH(the 260-for the res.-if they won't send you another.) but way ain't good enough.:down::down::down:

At that res. and at that purchase of the GX2, I think I would want at least with the GTX275 to start with-all factors considered...

[JohnZS]

That is very harsh, IMHO eVGA should have given you at least a 275, preferably a 285 as those will deliver roughly equivalent to better performance.
Nobody likes the pain of having to go through an RMA, I cannot believe they downgraded you! :(
Keep fighting them.
John

[TrevorMcPoonage]

Im not trying to get a better card, If they had another 9800GX2 Id say just give me that. My problem is I am mildly OCD, and whenever something breaks I need to replace it with something equal or better, so I feel like things are always moving forwards...never backwards. Weird huh? But my point is I will feel totally ripped off if this card performs worse in my games, and it will eat me up inside :rofl:... but seriously... it will :mad:.

It's not at all about the price point for me....i do not want a modern card of equal value of mine at the time of purchase (£399 :eek:). I think a GTX285 is being wishful tbh (it is significantly better is it not).

[ReverendMaynard]

A GTX295 would be significantly better, imo a single vanilla, none oc'd GTX275 or 285 would be even steven if you look at launch pricing.

[TrevorMcPoonage]

Yes but the way I look at it, at the time of purchase I payed for the performance of a 9800GX2. Not a GTX295 which didnt even exist at the time. If you look at the modern cost of a 9800GX2 it's not worth the same by a long shot, even brand new.

I've had almost two years of good gaming out of it so I've had some moneys worth, but considering the price I payed £399 Im not happy it broke. Not one bit. As they say.. you get what you pay for. I payed for 9800GX2 performance and thats what I want. Nothing more.. nothing less. But more would be nicer :ROTF:

[ReverendMaynard]

That's not how warranty works...or at least the business I run. When a part is discontinued, and goes EOL before the warranty period ends it is up to the manufacturer or reseller to either provide a repaired unit, a unit with comparable or BETTER performance.

[WARDOZER9]

I would get ahold of them and tell them you want a GTX 280 or GTX 285. Send them a link to this thread as well so they can see you're already publicly unhappy with what you were sent and everyone is behind you saying that you are getting screwed which means everyone that see's this thread will have thier faith in eVga shaken. That should get thier attention :)

[JAG87]

IMO, they should be giving you a card of equal or greater value. Performance is entirely subjective and dependant on the application.

The EVGA rep over there is getting too technical, the card isn't sold as 512MB, it's sold as 1GB to the customer. The average person does not understand and neither is concerned with the details he is talking about.

If the MSRP on your card was $599 lets say, they should be replacing it either with the same card (which they don't have anymore, too bad for them not you) or with a card that has an MSRP of $599 or more. In this case, GTX295.

That is my view on it. I would call and flame them.

[prava]

Just call them and complain then. GTX280 - 285 is the minimum you can ask them to give you...

[WARDOZER9]

IMO, they should be giving you a card of equal or greater value. Performance is entirely subjective and dependant on the application.

The EVGA rep over there is getting too technical, the card isn't sold as 512MB, it's sold as 1GB to the customer. The average person does not understand and neither is concerned with the details he is talking about.

If the MSRP on your card was $599 lets say, they should be replacing it either with the same card (which they don't have anymore, too bad for them not you) or with a card that has an MSRP of $599 or more. In this case, GTX295.

That is my view on it. I would call and flame them.


Don't listen to this guy, at all.

Just go for a card of equal performance as that is what you are entitled to, you paid for a performance level when you bought your card therefore that is what you are entitled to for a replacement.

Also for gods sake don't flame eVga as they will be less likely to help you so as I said, ignore JAG87 as he has no clue what he's talking about and his advice is as bad as it gets.

Sorry Jag but you seriously need to stop trying to help people because you are just plain wrong and anyone will with thier head screwed on straight will agree. Stop handing out bad advice.

[zanzabar]

most places (US, CAN, EU) the warranty is based on the original value or price paid, if they dont have what u rmad they are supposed to give 1) an equivalent product (could be original price or performance or new version) or 2) a full refund of the original price.

so the 260 is not the same price, its not the same performance and its not an equivalent product as its 1 gpu/less ram

[systemviper]

I feel that if they can't give you the dual gpu card that you purchased then they are required to give you the current equivalent of that card which is the gtx295, that is the newer counterpart of the card you purchased, no graphic stats or better or worse tech, you purchase a High End Dual GPU video card and that is what they owe you, no single gpu cards, no tech explanations, straight up give me the card i purchased or the current equivalent of that card.

[JAG87]

Don't listen to this guy, at all.

Just go for a card of equal performance as that is what you are entitled to, you paid for a performance level when you bought your card therefore that is what you are entitled to for a replacement.

Also for gods sake don't flame eVga as they will be less likely to help you so as I said, ignore JAG87 as he has no clue what he's talking about and his advice is as bad as it gets.

Sorry Jag but you seriously need to stop trying to help people because you are just plain wrong and anyone will with thier head screwed on straight will agree. Stop handing out bad advice.


Are you some kind of idiot? I don't know what kind of records you have on me giving advice and being "plain wrong". Show me all this wrong advice I've given out.

Second of all, if you paid 100K for a BMW 7 series with 400HP, and the car turned out to be a lemon within warranty, would you take a 60K BMW 5 series with 400HP as a replacement, just because it "performs" the same?

You would be ok with BMW telling you that your 7 series has depreciated over the years and the new 5 series is of equal or greater value?

Don't be ridiculous. If they can't fix the car they owe you a new 7 series. Warranty works on value, not on performance. If you paid for something and it breaks under warranty, your expectation is to be compensated for the value you paid, NOT the current value or performance.

I've RMAed to BFG plenty of times, and always got a card back of equal or greater value. Sent in a 7900GT and got back a 9800GTX. Sent in an 8800GTX and got a GTX280. Sent in a 9800GTX and got back a GTX285.

While EVGA could have fine print in their warranty to backup their return decision legally, that does not dismiss the fact that it's poor customer support. I haven't investigated but I really hope it's not the case, and hope this is just the doing of some morons working in RMA.

[rouge]

Are you some kind of idiot? I don't know what kind of records you have on me giving advice and being "plain wrong". Show me all this wrong advice I've given out.

Second of all, if you paid 100K for a BMW 7 series with 400HP, and the car turned out to be a lemon within warranty, would you take a 60K BMW 5 series with 400HP as a replacement, just because it "performs" the same?

You would be ok with BMW telling you that your 7 series has depreciated over the years and the new 5 series is of equal or greater value?

Don't be ridiculous. If they can't fix the car they owe you a new 7 series. Warranty works on value, not on performance. If you paid for something and it breaks under warranty, your expectation is to be compensated for the value you paid, NOT the current value or performance.

I've RMAed to BFG plenty of times, and always got a card back of equal or greater value. Sent in a 7900GT and got back a 9800GTX. Sent in an 8800GTX and got a GTX280. Sent in a 9800GTX and got back a GTX285.

While EVGA could have fine print in their warranty to backup their return decision legally, that does not dismiss the fact that it's poor customer support. I haven't investigated but I really hope it's not the case, and hope this is just the doing of some morons working in RMA.

I Gotta agree with jag87 here, EVGA is trying to take the easy way out. It's too bad they have to be like this I heard so much about how good their warranty is.

[Mungri]

http://www.evga.com/FORUMS/tt.aspx?forumid=35

Register and make a thread on this forum, describe the the problem and link to this thread here.

http://www.evga.com/support/warranty/

EVGA Limited Warranty T&Cs state that products will be replaced with one of equal or higher performance.

You've been ripped off, but you wont get anywhere by sending emails back and forth, use this EVGA support forum.

[Serpentarius]

I think it would be better if you ask for a refund .... besides, Fermi just a week or two away .... having cash at hand is much flexible in case if you might want to purchase other gpus

[ReverendMaynard]

Don't listen to this guy, at all.

Just go for a card of equal performance as that is what you are entitled to, you paid for a performance level when you bought your card therefore that is what you are entitled to for a replacement.

Also for gods sake don't flame eVga as they will be less likely to help you so as I said, ignore JAG87 as he has no clue what he's talking about and his advice is as bad as it gets.

Sorry Jag but you seriously need to stop trying to help people because you are just plain wrong and anyone will with thier head screwed on straight will agree. Stop handing out bad advice.

Sorry guy, but you're mistaken and obviously an eVGA fanboy. If this thread were about XFX would you have come here to tell a person that they're wrong, when they are 100% correct? I doubt it.

[knopflerbruce]

If they can't find a 9800gx2 it's some pretty basic common sense that they should send something that's equal or better in most scenarioes, even if the gtx260 216 is better in some games under some conditions it doesn't help if it's worse in many other ways.

I got an open box 8800gtx from a local store, which died after 2 days. I got it cheap, and they looked at what I paid, and offered me a 9500gt:ROTF:

[TrevorMcPoonage]

I would get ahold of them and tell them you want a GTX 280 or GTX 285. Send them a link to this thread as well so they can see you're already publicly unhappy with what you were sent and everyone is behind you saying that you are getting screwed which means everyone that see's this thread will have thier faith in eVga shaken. That should get thier attention :)

Funny you should mention it, I've already linked them this thread, but in an email correspondance.


http://www.evga.com/FORUMS/tt.aspx?forumid=35

Register and make a thread on this forum, describe the the problem and link to this thread here.

http://www.evga.com/support/warranty/

EVGA Limited Warranty T&Cs state that products will be replaced with one of equal or higher performance.

You've been ripped off, but you wont get anywhere by sending emails back and forth, use this EVGA support forum.

Yes I'll do that thanks very much. But they are arguing it is a card of higher performance.


I think it would be better if you ask for a refund .... besides, Fermi just a week or two away .... having cash at hand is much flexible in case if you might want to purchase other gpus

Can I actually do this? Im pretty sure they are only obligated to replace, not refund, understandable.

Well I sent them another email, telling them about this thread and that I didnt feel this card was equal in terms of performance. I said I hadn't opened the new card yet so they could still sell it brand new if they replaced it with another, rather than me open it and test it only to find out it is worse. They told me to open it and test it :shrug:

Dear Mr. xxxxxxx

I could get into a long technical explanation why the same framerate on the GTX 260 feels better (more smoothly) than on 9800 GX2, but I guess that you are not interessted in technical information because you just need a replacement for your 9800 GX2. I think the GTX 260 is a refurbished one according to EVGA replacement policy. However it is (of course) not as old as a replacment 9800 GX2 would be. We tested any product prior to boxing.

I think the best thing is that you use the GTX 260 and see for yourself that the card do provides a more stable framerate than the 9800 GX2. You can also use higher texture quality settings. Even games like Starcraft II need more than 512 MB for each GPU for the highest texture detail.

Below are the two emails I sent in the order I sent them. Hence there first reply is the first one I posted, and the second replau the one above.

First Email

Hello,

I recently sent in my 9800GX2 under it's 2 year warranty (extended to 10 years as it was registered within 30 days of purchase). The RMA department sent me back a GeForce GTX 260 Core 216 SSC. This card is newer than my old card and uses less power, but still not as good as it in terms of performance (considerably so) and that's what matters most to me. Could you not have sent me another 9800GX2? Or at least something equivalent in performance and features. As I payed alot of money for the original card I am very dissapointed to be downgraded after it breaking at no fault of my own. I have currently not opened the card I have been sent and it's still sealed in it's original packaging.

My RMA Reference Number (Serial Number of 9800GX2): xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Serial Number of GTX 260 Core 216 SSC: xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

If any other information is required I can provide it.

Thanks

Andrew xxxxxxx

Second Email

Dear EVGA

Thankyou for taking the time to explain things to me, It is very much appreciated. I have also posted (I hope you don't mind) your email response on a forum I visit http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?p=4277071&posted=1#post4277071

The thread was created before I sent my first email to you asking about the Replacement GTX 260 card, and it was because of the response I got that I chose to make the enquiry to you in the first place. After posting your response, they are adamant (considering the max resolution of my monitor 1680 x 1050) that the GTX 260 is an inferior replacement. I ask that you read the forum; take time to further convince me the GTX 260 is going to provide equivalent performance, preferably before I open the box and actually test it so that should you change your mind you still have a brand new GTX 260, rather than a second hand one; or offer a different card as replacement. Of course, if you insist the GTX 260 will be equivalent in terms of performance for me, I will happily open the packaging straight away and test it for myself.

Many Thanks,

Andrew xxxxxxx

Therehas been no EVGA flaming don't worry. Also just wanted to say thanks for your help guys.

[crazydiamond]

lolz @ them trying to justify it because it 'feels better (more smoothly)'.... hope they make it right & take care of you

[WARDOZER9]

Are you some kind of idiot? I don't know what kind of records you have on me giving advice and being "plain wrong". Show me all this wrong advice I've given out.

Second of all, if you paid 100K for a BMW 7 series with 400HP, and the car turned out to be a lemon within warranty, would you take a 60K BMW 5 series with 400HP as a replacement, just because it "performs" the same?

You would be ok with BMW telling you that your 7 series has depreciated over the years and the new 5 series is of equal or greater value?

Don't be ridiculous. If they can't fix the car they owe you a new 7 series. Warranty works on value, not on performance. If you paid for something and it breaks under warranty, your expectation is to be compensated for the value you paid, NOT the current value or performance.

I've RMAed to BFG plenty of times, and always got a card back of equal or greater value. Sent in a 7900GT and got back a 9800GTX. Sent in an 8800GTX and got a GTX280. Sent in a 9800GTX and got back a GTX285.

While EVGA could have fine print in their warranty to backup their return decision legally, that does not dismiss the fact that it's poor customer support. I haven't investigated but I really hope it's not the case, and hope this is just the doing of some morons working in RMA.


And people like you are what's wrong with VGA pricing. If you send in a card that has failed and you get one back that is faster reguardless of it's value then the companies responsibility to you is complete. Oh, and if I bought a pricey car and it turned out to be a lemon and I was offered a car that while having a lesser price tag was superior in every way, I'd take it and be happy with it because I'm not comfortable with being a typical american that believes in satisfying myself while creating problems for others.

[NKrader]

Oh, and if I bought a pricey car and it turned out to be a lemon and I was offered a car that while having a lesser price tag was superior in every way, I'd take it and be happy with it because I'm not comfortable with being a typical american that believes in satisfying myself while creating problems for others.

meh.. lol nice i got a BMW M3 it broke down so they gave me a Turbocharged datsun.. its faster.. but.. wtf.. no that doesnt work I understand what your trying to say.. but.. :shrug:

[Ket]

You have been screwed. The underlining principle of a warrenty is as follows; To replace said RMA'd product with a product of equal or better performance. To put things in more lamen terms, you sent in a 9800GX2, which we will say is a 22" monitor for comparisons sake, and you were sent a 260 c216, which you can say is a 19" monitor. Nomatter how you slice it, you have not got a product of equal or better performance. You really need to phone them and squeeze them for a GTX285. Just simply point out to them in what world is a SINGLE GPU, midrange card, comparable to a DUAL GPU, enthusiast level card. Listen to whoever is on the phone cough and splutter, possibly pass you off to somebody "higher up", and your GTX285 will be yours :)

[WARDOZER9]

When you buy a video card, are you buying one by price or performance? Do you seriously mean to admit that by saying you should always get a replacement card of equal dollar based worth that every time you buy a card you pick a dollar ammount you want to spend and thats the card you buy whether or not it performs well? If thats the case, you are all admitting that you should get a waaaay slower Quadro GFX card of the same dollar value as thats whats really important. And if you say thats not true then you admit you are full of sheet and you realy care about the actual performance like every sane person and not about the actual dollar value. So which one is it? Dollar value or performance level? Left, right, up or down?



Back on topic. The OP does deserve a faster card than a GTX 260, prob a GTX 285 but he does not deserve a GTX 295 unless it can be proven that a GTX 285 does not outperform a 9800GX2.



Its sad to see this many oportunists in one area, makes me want to club you all to death before you burn yourself with hot coffee from McDonalds then try to sue McDonalds for a million dollars because thier coffee was hot. And yes, you have the same mentality as that dumbass bimbo that sued McDonalds a few yrs back for a million dollars. People with you guys mentality are the reason job's get outsourced because you don't look at the big picture, only the small picture that pads your greedy little asses while making things tougher on everyone else. Just remember as customer service continues to suffer that you and all the ones like you helped pave the way by pushing for more than you deserve just because you feel you deserve free stuff for no aparent reason.

Seriously OP, don't be part of the problem like some others here and make the right decision for you and everyone else who comes after you. Ask for a GTX 280 or GTX 285 that offers the same performance as your 9800GX2 but don't be a greedy degenerate and try to force them into card way more powerful than what you need a replacement for. I just hope you have more sense than some of the self riteous people here.

[Movieman]

Some thoughts..
Make the call to them. Calmly explain how you feel making DAMNED sure you leave all the emotion out of it.
Speak to them as you would a friend and then quietly wait for their response.
Always remember that companies are made up of human beings that like all of us are flawed.
It is quite possible that the person who sent you this 260 card did so quickly and may have missed that it was a x2 and not the normal 9800 card and in that case a 260 would have been a fair replacement..
The point I'm making is give them a chance to do the right thing.

[Ket]

Hey movieman, can you ban wardozer9 and do us all a favour? :)

[Movieman]

Hey movieman, can you ban wardozer9 and do us all a favour? :)

I just read his comment on "clubbing" and banning isn't a bad idea..:mad:

[Ket]

We all stand behind you MM!

[ReverendMaynard]

Some thoughts..
Make the call to them. Calmly explain how you feel making DAMNED sure you leave all the emotion out of it.
Speak to them as you would a friend and then quietly wait for their response.
Always remember that companies are made up of human beings that like all of us are flawed.
It is quite possible that the person who sent you this 260 card did so quickly and may have missed that it was a x2 and not the normal 9800 card and in that case a 260 would have been a fair replacement..
The point I'm making is give them a chance to do the right thing.

great advice.

[eth0s]

And people like you are what's wrong with VGA pricing. If you send in a card that has failed and you get one back that is faster reguardless of it's value then the companies responsibility to you is complete. Oh, and if I bought a pricey car and it turned out to be a lemon and I was offered a car that while having a lesser price tag was superior in every way, I'd take it and be happy with it because I'm not comfortable with being a typical american that believes in satisfying myself while creating problems for others.

Is this guy for real? This has to be a griefer/ goofer/ joker. Nobody is this stupid in real life. If this guy is for real, well, wow, I feel sorry for him because I bet this guy is driving around in a defective Toyota, has a broken monitor with 50% dead pixels, suffers from coffee burns over 90% of his body, and has no health care. Well, good luck in life buddy, you sure are a Great American! :ROTF: [Umm, since when did "suffering in silence" become a great American Virtue? Ever heard of a guy named Thomas Jefferson? Didn't he write the original American complaint letter back in 1776? I think it was called the "Declaration of Independence", or something like that. Wardozer would have written the "Declaration of Surrender, Obedience, and Acquiescence." And his slogan would have been: "Please Tread on Me: I kind of like it.;)"] This is also an example of the "Martyr Complex", where the self-described martyr, "suffers" constant indignities and humiliations as way of validating his own sense of superiority derived from his delusion that he is a selfless martyr surrounded by selfish pleasure-seekers.

@ Trevor McPoonage: Call evga at their headquarters in California. You do not have to speak German to anybody. I have called them many times and have gotten pretty good customer service from them, including getting a warranty replacement that I was happy with. It did take several tries, but eventually evga made it right. So call them at the following numbers: (evga will eventually help you get what you want, if you keep after them!)

* EVGA US Office
* Brea, California

CALL NOW:

* Toll Free: +1.888.881.EVGA (3842)
* Tel: +1.714.528.4500
* Fax: +1.714.528.4501

[JAG87]

And people like you are what's wrong with VGA pricing. If you send in a card that has failed and you get one back that is faster reguardless of it's value then the companies responsibility to you is complete. Oh, and if I bought a pricey car and it turned out to be a lemon and I was offered a car that while having a lesser price tag was superior in every way, I'd take it and be happy with it because I'm not comfortable with being a typical american that believes in satisfying myself while creating problems for others.


First of all I'm not american, I'm canadian.

But you're right: it's all the people like me that have this gigantic expection to have our purchase value warranted by the time imposed by the manufacturer that are driving up GPU costs. It's got nothing to do with inflation, lack of competition, demand and supply, or any other viable economic reason. It's definetely that minority of people with broken cards that are ripping EVGA off.

:rolleyes:

Let ask you something: you are spending money, evga is making money. If something goes wrong with their product you purchased, who should take the economic loss?



When you buy a video card, are you buying one by price or performance? Do you seriously mean to admit that by saying you should always get a replacement card of equal dollar based worth that every time you buy a card you pick a dollar ammount you want to spend and thats the card you buy whether or not it performs well? If thats the case, you are all admitting that you should get a waaaay slower Quadro GFX card of the same dollar value as thats whats really important. And if you say thats not true then you admit you are full of sheet and you realy care about the actual performance like every sane person and not about the actual dollar value. So which one is it? Dollar value or performance level? Left, right, up or down?


Honestly I shouldn't even dignify that incoherent rambling with a response. Let's just say that the average person does not visit xtremesystems, and does not know as much as us about hardware. They buy based on what's on the box. Within the same family of products (Quadro cards OBVIOUSLY don't fit the category) a higher price = a better product. Replacing a $599 card with a $299 card is unacceptable from a customer standpoint, even if it's a better product. Which is not, because as I've stated before performance is sometimes subjective to the specific use the customer has. For example a 9800GX2 smokes a GTX285 at folding.





Its sad to see this many oportunists in one area, makes me want to club you all to death before you burn yourself with hot coffee from McDonalds then try to sue McDonalds for a million dollars because thier coffee was hot. And yes, you have the same mentality as that dumbass bimbo that sued McDonalds a few yrs back for a million dollars. People with you guys mentality are the reason job's get outsourced because you don't look at the big picture, only the small picture that pads your greedy little asses while making things tougher on everyone else. Just remember as customer service continues to suffer that you and all the ones like you helped pave the way by pushing for more than you deserve just because you feel you deserve free stuff for no aparent reason.


I don't even know what to say.

You are using a moron who spilled hot coffee on himself and sued as your supporting argument? That's like me taking a blow torch at my 9800GX2 and suing EVGA because their card almost started a fire in my house. In that case, I not only agree with you, but I'd also give the person a lobotomy. But that's not the case here. So quit your corporation fanboyism and act like a damned customer who spent his hard earned money.

[Splave]

I would be happy with a 260 216, less case heat, less power draw and better driver support. ;) just me though

OP just be happy they are talking to you, any other company wouldnt offer you squat. +1 evga

[Ket]

Yeah they would. I sent a 6800GT to Gigabyte once that was out of warrenty and they said they would fix it for £10. Go Gigabyte. I always liked Gigabyte, they even sent me a new NB fan for a GA-7VAXP years ago when the board was like 3 years out of warrenty for free. I should buy more Gigabyte stuff.

[TrevorMcPoonage]

I would be happy with a 260 216, less case heat, less power draw and better driver support. ;) just me though

OP just be happy they are talking to you, any other company wouldnt offer you squat. +1 evga

Case heat? meh I've lived with it for almost two years no real problem. Power? Yeah makes a difference except I don't pay the power bill, Im 19, at university and it's All included in halls of residence weekly rent. Driver support?? Means jack all if I get less performance. That's all i care about pure and simple. I do not want to rip EVGA off and get a GTX295, But the GTX 260 as far as I can tell is not as good. Ill install it when I pick it up tommorow and test.

Also lol@ where this thread has gone, didn't expect it to spark such a heated debate.

[Ket]

We don't like nVidia in these parts of the wood :p:

[Movieman]

We don't like nVidia in these parts of the wood :p:

I've owned both ATI and nVidia at different times, found them both to fill my needs.
I have 2-260GTX 192 cards and they are excellent.
I also have an old ATI HD2600XL card that works perfectly for my needs
There will always be a point where one company has a better card than the other and it goes back and forth based on whose just come to market and who is still in R&D on their next product..

[Ket]

I've owned both ATI and nVidia at different times, found them both to fill my needs.
I have 2-260GTX 192 cards and they are excellent.
I also have an old ATI HD2600XL card that works perfectly for my needs
There will always be a point where one company has a better card than the other and it goes back and forth based on whose just come to market and who is still in R&D on their next product..

Unfortunately for me nVidia have always been significantly worse.

My VC history :)

ATi

Radeon 9000NP
Radeon 9600Pro
X800XL
X1950Pro
HD3850
HD3870
HD4830

nVidia

MX400
5700 Ultra
6800GT
8200

I make it a habit to sample the other side periodically to see how things have improved. For me, the green side was always worse. Much hotter running and drivers were abysmal, randomly BSODing and I couldn't play Theme Hospital where the 2D side of NVs drivers are borked.

[knopflerbruce]

It's weird people are discussing so hard, we all agree that the 260 is worse than that 9800gx2.:shrug:

If the 260 doesn't give you equal or better performance after you've tried it, I wonder if they tell you to use other settings so the card performs better than a gx2, or perhaps play other games:D

[Ket]

Most of us are geeks, its what we do :p:

[5ILVgearX]

When you buy a video card, are you buying one by price or performance? Do you seriously mean to admit that by saying you should always get a replacement card of equal dollar based worth that every time you buy a card you pick a dollar ammount you want to spend and thats the card you buy whether or not it performs well? If thats the case, you are all admitting that you should get a waaaay slower Quadro GFX card of the same dollar value as thats whats really important. And if you say thats not true then you admit you are full of sheet and you realy care about the actual performance like every sane person and not about the actual dollar value. So which one is it? Dollar value or performance level? Left, right, up or down?


LOL what a guy, shame that I am late to the party.

Lets put it this way, your XFX 9800GT EE breaks down today, you sent it in for RMA, they return you a GT240 DDR3. I guess you be overjoyed right :rofl: :ROTF:

Anyways, make sure you talk to evga and get it sorted out. At least a refurbish gtx 280 would of did it justice, a gtx 260 is just not right even if its Super ultra mega overclocked :ROTF:

What ever happen to the slogan " Committed to the highest level of costumer satisfaction." :down: :down:

Looking forward to see this get straighten out.

Best of luck!

[ReverendMaynard]

Unfortunately for me nVidia have always been significantly worse.

My VC history :)

ATi

Radeon 9000NP
Radeon 9600Pro
X800XL
X1950Pro
HD3850
HD3870
HD4830

nVidia

MX400
5700 Ultra
6800GT
8200

I make it a habit to sample the other side periodically to see how things have improved. For me, the green side was always worse. Much hotter running and drivers were abysmal, randomly BSODing and I couldn't play Theme Hospital where the 2D side of NVs drivers are borked.

meh, clown shoes.

Ati
Radeon 7000
8500 (64 and 128mb)
9600
9500pro
9800pro
X850XT
X1800XT
X1900XT
X1900XTX
3870 (2)
3850 (2)
4850
4870
5770
5850
5870

nVidia
TNT2
MX200
MX400
MX420
6800GT
7800GT
8800GTS 640
8800GT 512
9800GT
9800GTX
9800GX2
GTX260
GTX285 (2)

[Ket]

Yea well I'm not stupid an piss money away on graphics cards like water :p: Generally I buy something for the sake of it being a worthwhile upgrade, and in the cases such as the 8200 for experimental purposes to see how drivers are progressing and evaluate that evidence for future purchases / recommendations.

[ReverendMaynard]

Stupid? no. Pure enthusiast? yes. Learnt allot running all of those cards into the ground. Ati and nVidia suck equally lol.

[flashnc]

for the sake of argument ( and I agree the 260 is a lesser performing card comparable to the 9800gx2 ) but lets play devils advocate here....do you have any performance/benchmarking that has been done with the GX2??? 3dm6 whatever.... thats always there in the results page** now go ahead and run the 260 and see what the performance really is.....also if your play specific games all the time you know what your basic performance was prior to the 260...is it lower higher etc???

Now I agree and I would certianly be on the phone to higher ups* having paid a substantially higher price for one card to be replaced with a much lower priced card a either end of the price point ( new or old) and try to convince them that its not acceptable...just my 2 cents

By the way I have had the 260 the 285 also...Id say the 285 would be closer in performance ( not actually having ever had the 9800GX2 though to compare with)

[Ket]

Stupid? no. Pure enthusiast? yes. Learnt allot running all of those cards into the ground. Ati and nVidia suck equally lol.

lol "learn" what exactly? That a different GTX285 or 3870 OCd better than the previous one? :p: Seriously, a lot of the cards you listed were not upgrades at all.. barely even worthy of being considered a side-grade. 3850>3870, umm.. why? 9800GT>9800GTX... :confused: X1900XT>X1900XTX :doh:

I could pick out more examples if you wish :D Lots of money spent on cards you could of put toward building one ultimate system IMO.

[chuchnit]

lol "learn" what exactly? That a different GTX285 or 3870 OCd better than the previous one? :p: Seriously, a lot of the cards you listed were not upgrades at all.. barely even worthy of being considered a side-grade. 3850>3870, umm.. why? 9800GT>9800GTX... :confused: X1900XT>X1900XTX :doh:

I could pick out more examples if you wish :D Lots of money spent on cards you could of put toward building one ultimate system IMO.

Yah, but each card has its own set of hardware boints :welcome::up:

[ReverendMaynard]

lol "learn" what exactly? That a different GTX285 or 3870 OCd better than the previous one? :p: Seriously, a lot of the cards you listed were not upgrades at all.. barely even worthy of being considered a side-grade. 3850>3870, umm.. why? 9800GT>9800GTX... :confused: X1900XT>X1900XTX :doh:

I could pick out more examples if you wish :D Lots of money spent on cards you could of put toward building one ultimate system IMO.

Ahh, for someone who is/thinks he's intelligent you pretty much react to most posts about spending money here at XS with the assumption that everyone is a consumer. Possibly I'm an engineer for a company that installs these cards and I get them for free? Another possibility is that those cards were sold, and the next cards were had for dirt cheap? I'd go with both. Maybe take your head out of your behind and think before you spew bs?

EDIT regarding your edit: Actually, I went from the 3870's to the 3850's because I burnt them up pounding the sauce out of them. Stay on your crusade of telling people what they should spend their money on, and what is a "waste" and what isn't. Keep guys with a hwbot sig out of it because 99.9% of us will laugh at you ;)

[ban916]

I'm going to end this right now!! To the op I had a 9800gx2 and was on my third rma, I requested to recieve a gtx 260 core 216 in place of the 9800gx2 because it is a better card!! I use my system mainy for gaming at 1920x1200 resoultion and with and aa turned on the gtx 260 kills the 9800gx2. It is a better card crank up the resoultion and the aa and be happy.

[TrevorMcPoonage]

My monitors max resolution in 1680 x 1050. Im not going to buy a whole new monitor just to enjoy a mild improvement in graphics at higher resolution. I have been doing some more research on the issue however and and coming to accept the gtx 260 216 core isn't much worse than the 9800gx2.

A final question, I love strategy games. Lots of units, lots and lots. Biggest armies possible. Which card is better? The GTX 260 216 core has more vid mem per card... but 9800gx2 more overall.... But at the end of the day, strategy is why I game on the PC and not my xbox 360.

The following reviews have left me skeptical however.

http://www.nvnews.net/reviews/evga_geforce_gtx_260_core_216/page_5.shtml

The GTX 260 216 core ia beaten by the GTX 280 in all these games. Only by a bit.

Yet in this review

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/nvidia-gtx-280,1953-21.html

and this review

http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/gpu_displays/nvidia_gtx_280_performance_revealed_-_msi_n280gtx/5

The GTX 280 is beaten by the 9800GX2 in some games loses in others, but the difference is minimal (even possible 9800gx2 advantage, especially in games I play minus crysis, which is just eye candy and crap game really).

Hence (in terms of performance):

9800GX2 ≈ GTX 280

GTX 280 > GTX 260 216 Core

Therefore:

9800GX2 > GTX 260 216 Core

Conclusion:

I have been downgraded? Is this evidence?

[Roger_D25]

Please keep us posted Trevor on how this works out for you, if you decide to push for a different card that is more equal to your previous 9800GX2. I truly think that Movieman had the best advice (Post # 40) and that advice will give you the best chance of making progress with eVGA towards getting a better replacement card. Many of us, myself included, have delt with eVGA and I believe that if you continue communicated with them in a calm and objective manner they will come through for you (at least that has always been my experience with eVGA). However its been almost a year since I've had to RMA anything with eVGA and given these economic times maybe things are a bit different. In any case I'm very curious as to the outcome of this!

[SamHughe]

EVGA 9800GX2 Sells about $200 on Ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/EVGA-NVIDIA-GeForce-9800-GX2_W0QQitemZ110503518830QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPCC_Vi deo_TV_Cards?hash=item19ba85e26e)

GeForce GTX 260 Core 216 is being sold for $214 at newegg (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130434) even more expensive in other places.

You can certainly push for a 275 but I wouldn't hold high hopes.

Good luck.

P.S.: Another thing to keep in mind. If you want to sell your card right now, which one sells more easily and for more money?

[Warboy]

Unfortunately for me nVidia have always been significantly worse.

My VC history :)

-snip-

I make it a habit to sample the other side periodically to see how things have improved. For me, the green side was always worse. Much hotter running and drivers were abysmal, randomly BSODing and I couldn't play Theme Hospital where the 2D side of NVs drivers are borked.

I've used the following

ATI
ATI Radeon 6 - 9 series including a ATI 9800 XT (?) been awhile...
Radeon HD3870

NVIDIA
TNT2
Geforce4
6800GS 256MB
7950GT 512MB
8800GTS 320MB
8800GTX
GTX 280
GTX 285


But in eVGA defense, they are right about "smooth" since you would be working with one gpu, You wouldn't have the microstuttering between 2 gpus. Just food for thought.

[TrevorMcPoonage]

http://www.evga.com/FORUMS/tm.aspx?m=226896
My Post on the Nvidia forums.

EVGA_ArneS is most likely the same person I have been communicating with in my emails, he too works for EVGA and is called Arne :D
Not looking good though in terms of the card :(.

[knopflerbruce]

That guy should be fired if EVGA wants to have a good reputation, his posts are complete BS. If the card performs less on the customer's preferred settings it's worse. EOD.

I game on 1280x1024, with aa and af off, and if some guy told me to crank them up to make the replacement card competitive I'd go:shocked: and then :upset:

Plus, I never saw microstuttering mentioned in any ads for this card. Now it's suddenly important, when EVGA benefits from it?? O-M-G!

[dejanh]

I would suggest that you contact Joe Darwin, Director of Technical Marketing directly about this. You can reach him at jdarwin@evga.com, or alternatively you can try calling their US toll-free number and demanding that you speak to him. What you received as a replacement is not the equivalent card but a much worse card. The very least that you should have received would have been a GTX280 which IMHO would have been a very good card to get, possibly even an upgrade.

Hope things work out for you. :up:

[JAG87]

That guy should be fired if EVGA wants to have a good reputation, his posts are complete BS. If the card performs less on the customer's preferred settings it's worse. EOD.

I game on 1280x1024, with aa and af off, and if some guy told me to crank them up to make the replacement card competitive I'd go:shocked: and then :upset:

Plus, I never saw microstuttering mentioned in any ads for this card. Now it's suddenly important, when EVGA benefits from it?? O-M-G!


QFT.



I would suggest that you contact Joe Darwin, Director of Technical Marketing directly about this. You can reach him at jdarwin@evga.com, or alternatively you can try calling their US toll-free number and demanding that you speak to him. What you received as a replacement is not the equivalent card but a much worse card. The very least that you should have received would have been a GTX280 which IMHO would have been a very good card to get, possibly even an upgrade.

Hope things work out for you. :up:


And QFT again.

[IvanG]

can a 9800x2 do this?
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu165/igmoto/th_NicOC3dmark.png (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu165/igmoto/?action=view&current=NicOC3dmark.png)

if can. u have Been Ripped Off IMHO

[TrevorMcPoonage]

can a 9800x2 do this?
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu165/igmoto/th_NicOC3dmark.png (http://s644.photobucket.com/albums/uu165/igmoto/?action=view&current=NicOC3dmark.png)

if can. u have Been Ripped Off IMHO

Yes it did beat that, If anyone has an account over at BuildYourOwn.org.uk (they recently made it so you can only see forums with account???) you can see my score for 3dmark06 under the video cards section. My username is Trevor True nOOb and I got 17700 with an E8400, not an E8500 like in that pic. I only had 2GB of DDR2 RAM aswell. I wish I had posted my later screenshots on there (I didnt because i couldnt be bothered, i wasn't overclocking to beat people and I was top anyway at the time on that forum) I once got 18400 when I overclocked to 4ghz (same cpu speed as in that pic) on my e8400. Just read page 128 and see. This was posted just under two years ago when I first built my PC, unforntunately links to imageshack (where screenshots were stored) have since expired, but by reading everyone elses responses and the fact I was placed in the rankings it is obviously genuine.

http://www.buildyourown.org.uk/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3003&whichpage=128

If you read my post at the EVGA forums I mentioned my drop in 3DMark06 score, Arne simply replied that it is designed to benchmark older games, hence the 9800gX2 scores better in it....

Thanks Dejanh, I will contact him.

Also, @ JAG87... QFT??? does that mean quit f*cking trying? Aparently it's an acyonym for a few things such as quantum field theory :D

[ReverendMaynard]

06

9800GX2
http://hwbot.org/community/submission/809515_reverendmaynard_3dmark_2006_geforce_9800_gx 2_24422_marks

260 216 (note higher cpu/ram clocks and much better timings than the 9800GX2 run)
http://hwbot.org/community/submission/954776_reverendmaynard_3dmark_2006_geforce_gtx_260 _216sp_22623_marks

Vantage

9800GX2
http://hwbot.org/community/submission/809519_reverendmaynard_3dmark_vantage___performanc e_geforce_9800_gx2_13619_marks

260 216
http://hwbot.org/community/submission/810621_reverendmaynard_3dmark_vantage___performanc e_geforce_gtx_260_216sp_12811_marks

[IvanG]

on vantages im not agrre with 260 scores see:

sorry upload wrong picture

[TrevorMcPoonage]

You need to show your full CPU-Z IvanG, including procosser, speed and amount of RAM/Timings. Extra score could, and probably is just that. There is always variation between systems.

[cajer]

Talk to them about it. I just rmaed mine on the 12th and I got a 285gtx ssc.

[viccan]

Talk to them about it. I just rmaed mine on the 12th and I got a 285gtx ssc.



Was your RMA an 9800gtx ?
Cant believe EVGA is being week like this , totally not the norm... Hopefully they will do whats right .. In fact if By this threads end it hasn't been corrected, I frankly will never buy EVGA again :(
VGA cards or Motherboards and funny thing is my sons been asking for a new classified, Id love to use this as an excuse to have him go Asus...:rofl:

[cajer]

Was your RMA an 9800gtx ?
Cant believe EVGA is being week like this , totally not the norm... Hopefully they will do whats right .. In fact if By this threads end it hasn't been corrected, I frankly will never buy EVGA again :(
VGA cards or Motherboards and funny thing is my sons been asking for a new classified, Id love to use this as an excuse to have him go Asus...:rofl:

It was a 9800GX2. I think if you talk to EVGA they will mail you something better, as I specially filed a question on the card asking what I will get back and I also after the customer support guy when I called.

[ReverendMaynard]

You need to show your full CPU-Z IvanG, including procosser, speed and amount of RAM/Timings. Extra score could, and probably is just that. There is always variation between systems.

Any news about what eVGA are doing?

if you look at my vantage runs, they are the identical system settings. The 9800GX2 waxed that 260 216.

[TrevorMcPoonage]

If you read on the EVGA forums post, aparently they are forwarding it to a representative. i'm not sure what that means, I'll give it a couple of days I guess?

[ReverendMaynard]

If you read on the EVGA forums post, aparently they are forwarding it to a representative. i'm not sure what that means, I'll give it a couple of days I guess?

That's progress if anything, keep us in the loop.

[dejanh]

QFT stands for "quoted for truth" :p:

Keep us posted :)

[ReverendMaynard]

QFT stands for "quoted for truth" :p:

Keep us posted :)

ahh man, I always thought it meant Quoting :banana::banana::banana::banana:ing Tards.... ;)

[N19h7m4r3]

Yes please keep us updated. Now that BFG has pulled from Europe, I'll be buying EVGA when I buy Nvidia again and I'd like to know how they sort you out.

I know with BFG they always RMA'd with a card of equal performance or price, since they always requested a copy of the original invoice/receipt, and they upgraded me from a 8800GTX OC2 to an Ultra for free after a year of me buying my card.

[Eugene86]

I rma'ed a BFG 7800GT last summer and they sent me a 9800gtx replacement. I tried it out and it was busted too. So I contacted BFG and sent the 9800gtx back with them paying for postage. They then sent me a 280gtx OC. I was happy :)

[Kayx]

I spend alot of time on the EVGA forums, and I can tell you in the past every 9800GX2 that have been RMA'd to EVGA have been replaced with either a 280 or 285.

Now currently due to Nvidia EOLing most of the 200 series, it looks like EVGA has no stock of these cards anymore. So they instead sent you a 260. In my opinion this is not a fair replacement, and you should keep on them to find you a 280, 285 or another 9800GX2.

I am an EVGA fan, but I dont think it is fair that in the past everyone who RMA'd this card got a 280/285 and now you dont simply because Nvidia have EOL'd them.

Keep at it, hopefully they will sort you out.

[TrevorMcPoonage]

@Eugene86, wow you really can't hope for more than that. That is insane generosity by EVGA, a 7800GT to a 280GTX without paying a penny :shocked:
I know you went to a 9800GTX before they upgraded you to a 280GTX, which annoys me because I have a 9800GX2 (which is effectively 2 X 9800GTX on one card) and their trying to give me a 260 GTX (and I actually payed £399 under two years ago :rofl:).

Yeah I'll keep everyone informed, hopefully next to I post I'll have confirmation of something actually happening. Thanks for your support.

[Eugene86]

Well it wasn't an Evga card though. It was a BFG card. I really hope that Evga comes through for you. I've always ranked Evga and BFG at the top of my list but if this is going to be a common problem with Evga now, I think I'll stick to BFG. All of my warranty experience has been amazing with them

[Alien Grey]

Stay away from EVGA Europe it's EPIC FAIL. If they didn't screw you they must have forgotten it.


Here's my experience with EVGA Europe.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=235723&highlight=EVGA+joke


Someone I know from the ASUS Rampage Formula forum and also a member on XS also had to RMA his 9800GX2 but it was an ASUS graphics card. They couldn't fix it or replace it with a new 9800GX2 so they gave him a new GTX295 and that's how it should be done. You bought a graphics card with two GPUs so they should replace it with a graphics card with two GPUs.

[N19h7m4r3]

I just read that entire thread by you AG.

I'm really not looking forward to buying EVGA again now.

The very first time EVGA cards became availible here in Ireland it was a mess. It was the 8800 series, and I order a 8800GTS KO AC3, which was supposed to be their top clocked card.

What I got was the bog standard AC3, which was just the normal 8800GTS, no special cooling shroud nothing, normal clocks. I emailed EVGA first for an answer as, maybe it was a shipping problem or my retailer sent me the wrong card.

I sent them my Serial Number, and then I got my reply, the man insisted that I got what I ordered, it was just a new version.

Like hell it was, it had very low clocks for the KO AC3 which was the overclocked version, hell didn't even feature the KO cooler.

Contacted my retailer, took 2 weeks to get an RMA, when they got it back they were Shocked! It was nothing like the spec sheets they got from EVGA sent them.

A week later they gave me a full refund, because simply they had none of the KO AC3 cards, EVGA had sent them the wrong ones it seems.

I was a little dissapointed that the Glorified EVGA made such a mistake, specially since the man I spoke to insisted that "The ACS3 KO and the ACS3 are just different revision numbers, the have the same core clock and memory clock one is just a discontinued revision."

Which was clearly a lie since the clock and memory speeds were different. Haha I still have that card registered on the EVGA site and pic there is even the bog standard GTS.

[Metroid]

European policy:


The Product is guaranteed for 2 years (or 10 years) from the date of original purchase from any legitimate European retailer or e-tailer of EVGA products. The Warranty covers both material and workmanship, and the repair shall be carried out free of charge. We reserve the right to replace the product with an identical product or with a product with identical or better specifications, if the product is no longer available and/or cannot be repaired economically. The replacement product is warranted under these warranty terms and is subject to the same limitations and exclusions for the remainder of the original warranty period.

http://www.evga.de/warranty/

Put it simple if you are not happy with the product meaning for you is a downgrade then they should give you another GPU with better specifications.

[SoLoR]

Yep that guy Alien Gray was talking about was me.... About half a year ago, my Asus 9800GX2 stoped clocking up in to 3d clocks when booting in to windows (it stayed on those 2D clocks for text mode), so i RMAd it and since 9800gx2 was/is out of production and they did have any, i was able to choose what card to take instead. So now i ended up with new GTX295, im was thinking back then couple of weeks later what would happen if i would ask for Asus MARS :) but i think that would be pushing it...

[Alien Grey]

European policy:



http://www.evga.de/warranty/

Put it simple if you are not happy with the product meaning for you is a downgrade then they should give you another GPU with better specifications.

That's the whole problem. For EVGA everything is the same specification so you don't have to argue with them. We are wrong and they are right and I'm almost sure that he's dealing with the same guy from the EVGA Tech Support like I was.

EVGA FTW euhmmm... I mean EVGA WTF :rofl:

[Metroid]

I hate that name "EVGA FTW", its just too stupid.

Yes probably is the same guy you dealt with. I wonder if he knows the policy, anyhow I posted the policy on the thread that the username TrevorMcPoonage created at EVGA. That will probably help him.

[Metroid]

These are my findings, already posted on the EVGA forums at http://www.evga.com/FORUMS/tm.aspx?m=226896&mpage=2#249857

Article http://www.anandtech.com/...c.aspx?i=3334&p=11




9800GX2 GTX280
39.9 34.3 Crysis
73.2 67.4 Call of Duty
62.2 70.2 ETQW
52.6 45.0 Assassin's Creed
35.6 36.8 Oblivion
37,6 37.7 The Witcher
75.4 63.9 Bioshock
376.5 355.3

9800GX2 6% faster than GTX280

Now this article http://www.anandtech.com/...oc.aspx?i=3408&p=4


GTX280 GTX260 216 Cores
35.8 31.5 Crysis
71.2 61.0 ETQW
37.7 33.0 Oblivion
40.6 33.2 Race Driver Grid
37.1 33.2 Assassin's Creed
37.2 31.5 The Witcher
259.6 223.4

GTX280 14% faster than the GTX260 216 Cores

So basically a 9800GX2 is 6% + 14 % = 20% faster than the GTX260 216 Cores.

It is really important for anybody to double check the results I got from Anandtech as It may have been an error or something.

I checked every result 3 times and all matched, so it seems accurate.

I hope this test will help TrevorMcPoonage

[Roger_D25]

Nice work Metroid and very nice of you to have done! I'm surprised that eVGA (or more specifically the customer service person who Trevor has been working with) hasn't made this right yet? Especially since Trevor has been handling this in a very mature and resonable way in regards to his dealings with eVGA (many people would have resorted to more drastic measures after weeks of no progress)! I'm very interested in how this works out now because I have an aging GTX280 which is very difficult to find in retail channels (which makes me think its at EOL or very close to it). If something were to happen to that card I'm curious what their equal or better replacement would be (probably a GTX260)! In any case keep up the pressure Trevor and keep us posted on whats happening if you would!

[Metroid]

.....

Thanks, glad I can help.

I will keep all informed about this as is a general importance to all of us.

Edit: By the way I forgot to place the [.code.][./code.] for a better comparison view as I did on the EVGA forum, now is fixed.

[Amorphous]

Now I wish I still had my 9800GX2. I just gave it away. :/

Does your board support SLI?


Amorphous

[TrevorMcPoonage]

:eek:Ok what number should I call to contact EVGA directly, getting nowhere with emails. Whenever I ring though nobdy answers???

I was trying:

EVGA Europe Support

Tel: +49.89.189.049 11

Seeing as im from the UK I believe +49 is just 0049. It rings but nobody answers. Im trying at 5:00 PM GMT as thats when im home. What do?

Interestingly this micro-stutter thing is begging to look like a bit of a scandal. I don't think im ever going for a dual gpu solutions or SLI again. Their still arguing that even with a drops in fps as high as 30% the visual performance is better on the single card Considering SLI only gives an extra 40-66% fps, this works out as you paying twice as much for two cards but because of micro-stutter, your only getting an extra 10-20% visual performance :eek:.

And @Amorphous. Yes it does support SLI. It's an Asus Maximus Forumula X38.

[Amorphous]

If nothing else, I've got a pair of 9800GTXs with your name on it, if you can wait until after PAX...


Amorphous


:eek:Ok what number should I call to contact EVGA directly, getting nowhere with emails. Whenever I ring though nobdy answers???

I was trying:

EVGA Europe Support

Tel: +49.89.189.049 11

Seeing as im from the UK I believe +49 is just 0049. It rings but nobody answers. Im trying at 5:00 PM GMT as thats when im home. What do?

Interestingly this micro-stutter thing is begging to look like a bit of a scandal. I don't think im ever going for a dual gpu solutions or SLI again. Their still arguing that even with a drops in fps as high as 30% the visual performance is better on the single card Considering SLI only gives an extra 40-66% fps, this works out as you paying twice as much for two cards but because of micro-stutter, your only getting an extra 10-20% visual performance :eek:.

And @Amorphous. Yes it does support SLI. It's an Asus Maximus Forumula X38.

[Alien Grey]

@TrevorMcPoonage

Don't get your hopes up high because I think that they're never going to give you anything else. The problem is that they don't have anything else anymore and whatever they give you as a replacement you've got to agree with it because you have been using your 9800GX2 for quite some time and if they take this in to account than you'll end up with whatever they give you as a replacement.

I wish I was wrong but I'm afraid that it's going to end like this. You're going to end up with what they gave you and all you can do is never buy anything from EVGA again.

With that said don't waste your money on phone calls because it won't help you any further. ;)

[aythrea]

Despite what some people are saying, I still think you ought to pursue this. Even if it somewhat Don Quixote-esque. You think you've been wronged, the it is your duty to fight the windmills.

G'luck!

[LedHed]

yea in SLI games the 9800GX2 is the same as GTX 280. Yes you got ripped off.

[Neox69]

Yeah, I would say that a GTX280 would have been better. :(

http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=560&card2=577

[Amorphous]

It's after PAX. If you're comfortable PMing me your address, you're welcome to 2 9800GTXs. No charge, but no warranty either (not even a pretend warranty).


Amorphous

[roki977]

260 will get you beter gaming exp. then 9800x2,much smoother.
AA kills 9800x2 in Crysis and few other games while 260 handles it pretty well. It is not all in raw numbers ,look at minimum fps and performanse with aa and high res.

[LedHed]

260 will get you beter gaming exp. then 9800x2,much smoother.
AA kills 9800x2 in Crysis and few other games while 260 handles it pretty well. It is not all in raw numbers ,look at minimum fps and performanse with aa and high res.

9800GX2 kills the 260 in SLI games, hell it even beats the 280 in many SLI games.

[Erdrick1980]

Just stick with the card you got man. I got that card and it plays all of my games great.

[Meta-Prometheus]

Since I am posting a reply a month after this thread was started I will talk only about the gpu's in question.

The 9800 GX2 may beat the GTX 260/280 in maximum FPS but not in minimum FPS. Minimum FPS can drop quite substantially with the 9800 GX2. Skim through this excellent comparison thread (http://www.overclock.net/nvidia/680331-9800gx2-vs-gtx280-answer.html). As well as this one (http://www.overclock.net/nvidia/684871-9800gx2-vs-9800gtx-sli.html). Hope these links don't get me into trouble!

It still is a good card, albeit phased out as far as Nvidia and board partners are concerned. It is an excellent folding card however!!

[grimREEFER]

imo, it's a better card mostly because of ram amount.
idk if 512mb is good enough nowadays.

but yea, ofc it would be better for you if you could get a gtx 275 or a 280.

[Onoff312]

After reading both threads on evga and here i am amazed at "arnie" i mean jesus christ saying how the game would feel better and the new architecture blah blah blah. No one gives a :banana::banana::banana::banana: clearly and the response on evga forum is similar nothing he said was really relevant to the issue.
You got shafted pretty bad man i feel bad for you.

[crazydiamond]

i take it they never fixed the situation? thats pretty f'd up IMO

[Biker]

Customer service PR disaster zone :(

[alexlyc]

Don't settle on a 260, demand a dual gpu card like 295!
I don't care what the have or not have, you spend a fortunate on a dual gpu technology, you should entitle to get a dual gpu card in return period.

If I am you, I won't settle unless I get at least a GTX 285. People who claim 260 is better blah blah are all base on spec only, most never own a GX2 in the first place. GX2 beats 260 in a lot of SLI enabled games with latest driver and SLI profile, I say this because I have an i5 750 system w/ GTX 260 to compare with.

[Xanth]

This is sad. Definately not the type of service I hoped to see from eVGA. I bought a 295 based on their warranty. I would expect if my 295 fails, I get another 295 or equivalent. Back to XFX I guess...

[p2501]

Trevor, what's the status of your RMA desaster? Did you get to have your 260 stepped up to a 280 like you're at least entitled to or is EVGA Europe still acting like this?

I was considering going EVGA for GTX480 SLI but if that's how they trample costumers....
So, EVGA, possibly down. XFX Europe.... just forget about it, you send them a card that throws errors in Folding (which they and others advertise with) on one core, and they argue since it's okay in Furmark the card's just fine for me. Pshh.

Somehow I feel there's a difference in costumer care between Europe and the US.

[railmeat]

Here is the reply to an email I sent to EVGA as an enquirey.

Dear Mr. xxxxxxx

The GTX 260 Core 216 is more powerful than the 9800 GX2.

While it is correct that there are benchmarks where the GX2 wins, the GTX 260 wins where it matters: In higher resolution (1600 and above) and with Antilaliasing enabled (4x or above.) You also have more effective RAM (896 for the single GPU instead of 512 MB for each GPU) which enables you to choose higher texture resolution with no impact on performance.

The GTX 260 is based on the GT200 chip and also offers a better architecture compared to G92 with larger on-chip caches and better thread scheduling. This helps to get a real-world performance close to 100% of the theoretical peak performance.




Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards

My monitor's max resolution is 1680 x 1050 so is this card better or not?

agree %100...the gtx 260 is better,be happy u got that....

a single pcb/gpu(260) beating or hanging with dual gpu/dual gpu(9800x2) is a win period.ask them how much for another 260 so u can sli em up...now your talking.

[BustaH]

If it were me id want a 295 if they could'nt replace the GX2. simply because I sent a DUAL GPU card, id want one back surely? or 2x 260 :D

oh and to the guy that was waffling on about claiming [suing] mcdonalalds for spilling hot coffee on themselves....I never had a cup of hot coffee from mcdonalds, its always tepid. :shakes: so that would never work where I live.