best 32" HDTV as display

[jimmyxxx]

Hi guys
I sold my old 42" plasma, cuz im moving to a smaller place and i need a new TV that also do the work as a monitor.
It must be 32", FullHD (1920x1080), the text should be very sharp (meaning the lowest dot pitch possible), lowest input lag possible, and if possible 120Hz tech (optional).
I'm using the tv, for playing games, movie watching, and photo editing.
The limit is 1,1k.
The options i have tought are, the sony ex700 or maybe a sharp led tv.
But i want the opinion from you guys, especially those who use the tv as monitor.

[sirheck]

I have the Vizio 32 incher, its not the 120hz one(have a 120hz 47 incher Vizio as well).
The 32 inch is the one i use for my monitor and coming from a
Sony Vega 32 inch CRT HDTV 2001 model<<<one of the best overall pictures i have ever seen.
I was really suprised at the colors of this 32 inch Vizio, it is much more colorful than
my Dell ultra sharp 22 inch monitor.

The Vizio,s are cheap and have good color and seem to be reliable.
Ya probably can't go wrong with one of them.

[zanzabar]

i just got a panasonic 32"s1 and its great, its got 2:3 pull down 1080p and its got nice color and text and has low input latency and no tearing or ghosting. i got it for $415 at video only, newegg had it for about the same price.

one of the things that i found is a must have is an independent brightness and back light control that some of the cheaper panels dont have

[jimmyxxx]

hmmm, i dont like vizio's, too many problems with them on the past.
The panny looks nice, im gonna search a little more about it.
BTW is there any kind of advantage using a LED tv (instead of LCD) as a monitor, different than just power efficiency and contrast?
Thanks for advice

[R3alsp33dy0ne]

I'm using a samsung 6 Series 32" LCD TV on my gaming system and I absolutley love it. It has a full CMS so it can be calibrated to give very accurate colours.

[YukonTrooper]

The Panasonic LCD's with their IPS panels will give you the lowest input lag. Also, their currently available 32" models have the new IPS-Alpha panels.

[zanzabar]

The Panasonic LCD's with their IPS panels will give you the lowest input lag. Also, their currently available 32" models have the new IPS-Alpha panels.

thats what i have

on the led, leds stop flash lighting but thats not a problem until u get to 40+ but samsung has led dimming were they can dim surrounding led lights its nice if u have alot of blacks for a movie but its not good for gaming.

[jimmyxxx]

samsung UN32B6000, pani 32" S1 LCD, samsung LN32B550.
what should i pick?

[YukonTrooper]

samsung UN32B6000, pani 32" S1 LCD, samsung LN32B550.
what should i pick?
Panny. Low input-lag.

[Frag Maniac]

Depends on what you prioritize most. Panasonic and Toshiba have low input lag, but lack 120Hz motion processing in their 32" models. There's talk of latter model Sonys being very low in input lag too though, and they have 1080p 32" models with 120Hz motion processing. They also have very accurate colors. If I were you though I'd wait until you can eyeball a couple of the new models of Sony, particularly the 32EX500 and 32EX700, the latter having LED edge back lighting and the new Bravia Engine 3 processing. Both have 120Hz motion processing btw.

A guy on AVS claimed recently all the Sonys were high in input lag, and referred me to a thread he made about input lag measurements on various TVs. Turns out he has an old XBR6 and hasn't even tested anything more recent, nor had anyone else on his thread last I checked. People whom own latter model Sonys have reviewed them as being very low in input lag. Be careful what you believe on input lag. There's a lot of speculation and exaggerations out there. Best thing to do if you must have something in a set that is hard to find info on is make sure you have the option to return for any reason without penalty.

[zanzabar]

120hz motion processing is worthless for gaming, it will just add latency as it dose not do 120hz it makes a false frame between 2 real frames, there was a samsung that did real 120hz but its not made anymore and nothing that isnt 3d ready will actually take 120hz input. its only real use is to better view 24fps movies since it dose not need pull down or to soft refresh on larger panels were u get tearing much easier

[Frag Maniac]

120hz motion processing is worthless for gaming, it will just add latency as it dose not do 120hz it makes a false frame between 2 real frames, there was a samsung that did real 120hz but its not made anymore and nothing that isnt 3d ready will actually take 120hz input. its only real use is to better view 24fps movies since it dose not need pull down or to soft refresh on larger panels were u get tearing much easierI wasn't saying or even implying 120Hz processing was useful for gaming zan. I only mentioned it because many that use a TV for gaming also use it for movies, sports, etc, where motion processing does indeed make a difference if it's done well. The 3rd gen Motion Picture Pro Panny uses for instance is very good at smoothing motion without noticeable tradeoffs.

That being said, 120Hz would be VERY useful for gaming were it true 120Hz and usable for 3D gaming. The only set I know of however that uses what they claim is true 120Hz is Nuvision though. They say they use algorithms to create whole identical frames, but since it's technically processing vs real 120Hz, I'm not sure Nvidia's 3D Vision would work with it.

The 32" sets for multi use (of which gaming is 1st priority) I'm narrowing my search down to include the 2009 Panasonic TC-L32S1 and 2010 TC-L32U22, and the 2010 Sony 32EX700.

In a nutshell the Panny TC-L32U22 would likely be fine for gaming, but it lacks the previous model's Motion Focus, which at the very least would make text and silhouettes sharper for non gaming applications such as internet surfing, movies, sports, etc.

The TC-L32U22 lacks the Alpha type IPS panel too, using a standard IPS instead, but if you don't view at radically wide angles, that's no tradeoff. It also lacks Game Mode, but many users of their TC-L32S1 say Game Mode makes no difference because the set is so lo in input lag anyway.

So then there's the Sony 32EX700, which is new for 2010, and has edge lit LED back lighting and uses Sharp's ASV panel which is known to be extremely low in input lag. At $1000 though, it costs a whopping twice as much as Panny's TC-L32U22.

Word from one of Panny's techs I spoke to today is that they will soon be combining Pioneer's tech with theirs to make sets with higher image quality in an affordable price range. The question is, what sizes, how soon, and how affordable.

Toshiba also makes low input lag 32" sets, but they have issues with color smearing.

[zanzabar]

panasonic has good 3:2 pull down, i like it better than 120hz for bluray, and a non ips panel will not be conducive for gaming or movies as u wont have the contrast or speed as large tn or any pva will not be fast

[R3alsp33dy0ne]

I may be misunderstanding you guys here, but it seems you are saying that IPS panels are a good choise for fast response time??

Unless something has changed drasticly in the last few months, IPS panels are the worst for response time. The fastest are TN, then MVA/PVA, then IPS. Image quality goes in the other direction... IPS is the best, then MVA/PVA, then TN. Although, on the image quality front, MVA/PVA panels tend to get better blacks while IPS panels have better viewing angles, and of course TN panels just look like a toddlers sketch pad.

[zanzabar]

your thinking monitors or TVs and other large displays its different, and for monitors A and E ips are the same or close to the same as a TN

[jimmyxxx]

i dont know if i had the time to wait for new panasonic tv's.
So i ill belive on you guys and get myself a s1, which looks right priced, nice viewing angles, low input lag, and enough connectivity for my consoles =)
I saw the EX700 from sony lately, but it didn't have the wow factor i was looking for its price.
thanks to yukon, zanzabar and Frag Maniac, i really appreciate your help.

[Frag Maniac]

I may be misunderstanding you guys here, but it seems you are saying that IPS panels are a good choise for fast response time??Yeah like zan said, it makes a difference whether you're talking monitors or TVs. TVs all use lots of video processing, most monitors don't. That processing can cause input lag. IPS grade panels require less processing because they inherently have higher image quality. The other thing to note is most TVs use PVA panels, very few use TNs. So you're really talking IPS vs PVA in LCD TVs for the most part.

Lots of manufacturers using PVA panels will exaggerate heavily on their response times specs, and they will NEVER tell you how high they are in input lag, because lots of gamers wouldn't buy them if they did. You also have to factor in 120Hz motion processing. Whenever you see a TV with a 4ms response spec it really means they are simulating 4ms with one fake frame in between the real frames because no TV has true 120Hz tech.

I will know more by the end of this month, as I plan to look at the new 32" Sony and Panny. I'm not sure what tech Sharp's ASV panel has which is in Sony's 32EX700, but with display tech changing so fast I'm not sure I like the idea of going twice as expensive as the Panny with the Sony. Overall I like the direction Panny is heading.

[zanzabar]

u shouldent say that no tv has true 120hz some do but they are hard to find, once 3d is out though it will be easy to tell what is waht. and what modern pannels are pva i thought that pva and mva were more expensive than ips now

[Frag Maniac]

u shouldent say that no tv has true 120hz some do but they are hard to find, once 3d is out though it will be easy to tell what is waht. and what modern pannels are pva i thought that pva and mva were more expensive than ips nowFor all intents and purposes what I said is true. Even the very expensive Nuvision sets that claim true 120Hz really just use algorithms to simulate it. I asked one of their guys on the phone today if it supported Nvidia 3D Vision and he not only wasn't sure, he hadn't even heard of it. Or maybe he was told not to say that it doesn't.

Their 32" has lots of nice 24p and motion tech in it, along with 10 bit panel and processing, but the guy couldn't even tell me what kind of panel it uses or if it has noticeable input lag. And this is a $1250 set.

Yes, I did exaggerate a bit saying no TV does, but in the category of sets we've been talking about, it's completely true. Only DLP sets are listed on Nvidia's 3D Vision compatibility page, and there's Projector TVs that do too, but they're basically all DLP based.

So unless you plan on getting a DLP, you're not going to get true 120Hz in a TV. I think what you may be referring to is a different kind of 3D tech Panasonic and other TV manufacturers have been working on, but I'm pretty sure it's not based on true 120Hz, but rather sim 120. In other words I think what they're doing is creating sim stereoscopics vs true side by side 60 Hz images. Nvidia's tech will only work with true 120Hz.

Anyway, it's kinda annoying and off putting when you call the manufacturer of what is claimed to be a TV having one of the most advanced LCD technology available and they can't even answer some basic questions about it. That along with the lofty price is enough to steer away anyone concerned about multipurpose use. They seem to only care about the home theater purists.

[R3alsp33dy0ne]

Yeah like zan said, it makes a difference whether you're talking monitors or TVs. TVs all use lots of video processing, most monitors don't. That processing can cause input lag. IPS grade panels require less processing because they inherently have higher image quality. The other thing to note is most TVs use PVA panels, very few use TNs. So you're really talking IPS vs PVA in LCD TVs for the most part.

Lots of manufacturers using PVA panels will exaggerate heavily on their response times specs, and they will NEVER tell you how high they are in input lag, because lots of gamers wouldn't buy them if they did. You also have to factor in 120Hz motion processing. Whenever you see a TV with a 4ms response spec it really means they are simulating 4ms with one fake frame in between the real frames because no TV has true 120Hz tech.

I will know more by the end of this month, as I plan to look at the new 32" Sony and Panny. I'm not sure what tech Sharp's ASV panel has which is in Sony's 32EX700, but with display tech changing so fast I'm not sure I like the idea of going twice as expensive as the Panny with the Sony. Overall I like the direction Panny is heading.

I understand what you are saying about monitors vs TV's, although sometimes the difference is not as much as you might think. Take a look at some of the lag times for last years large format Dell LCD's. Anyway, I was refering to LCD TV's not LCD computer monitors in my previous post.

Also, I think you'll find that being an IPS or a PVA/MVA panel will not change the amount of processing done to the video signal by the TV. The primary differences between these panel types are colour accuracy, contrast ratio and viewing angle. None of which are affected by the image processing that goes on inside a TV.

On a side note, 120Hz motion processing (or whatever the different brands decide to call it) doesnt change the response time figures of the panel.

The best thing I can suggest is to do exactly what I did before I bought my LCD TV/monitor is to head over to avsforum (http://www.avsforum.com/) and do your research there. There are heaps of extremely experienced folk that are always willing to help out.




u shouldent say that no tv has true 120hz some do but they are hard to find, once 3d is out though it will be easy to tell what is waht. and what modern pannels are pva i thought that pva and mva were more expensive than ips now

Not sure about current models but my 2009 samsung 6 series uses an MVA panel. And for the record, it has a fantastic picture when properly calibrated and personally, I dont notice any input lag while gaming (all proccessing disabled of course).

[R3alsp33dy0ne]

...the guy couldn't even tell me what kind of panel it uses or if it has noticeable input lag. And this is a $1250 set...

...Anyway, it's kinda annoying and off putting when you call the manufacturer of what is claimed to be a TV having one of the most advanced LCD technology available and they can't even answer some basic questions about it...

Unfortunatley, thats pretty much the norm these days. Although, as I mentioned before, check out avsforum.com. You will find out much more there about which sets have which panels etc than you will ever get from the manufacturers.

Good luck, I'm sure you will find a suitable TV eventually.

[Frag Maniac]

Also, I think you'll find that being an IPS or a PVA/MVA panel will not change the amount of processing done to the video signal by the TV. The primary differences between these panel types are colour accuracy, contrast ratio and viewing angle. None of which are affected by the image processing that goes on inside a TV.

On a side note, 120Hz motion processing (or whatever the different brands decide to call it) doesnt change the response time figures of the panel.Actually much if not most of the video processing a TV does has to do with color accuracy. That is why I mentioned IPS panels probably require less of it (in a TV) because they inherently have better color accuracy to begin with than other LCD panel types.

Where some people get the idea that IPS automatically means more processing and input lag is that originally they were primarily used in large monitors for pro photo work, many of which have lots of built in software and/or processing for a multitude of colors in a high gamut environment. IPS in TVs is a different animal though.

I never said 120Hz motion processing changes response time, I said manufactures lead you to believe it does. That's why you commonly see 4ms listed as response times on sets that have 120Hz motion processing. In reality they are 8ms panels. It's a lot of ad hype anyway though because these sets are using 60Hz LCD panels, and they refresh at 8ms anyway.

I'm well aware of AVS btw and have been participating there for some time. This time of year lots of people are scrapping to find info on new TV models that may not be on display yet in their area, as is the case with me. Currently there's an interesting thread going in the LCD Displays forum about input lag measurements on various TVs.

[jimmyxxx]

may sound dumb, but i haven't decide yet.
i have looked at the LG 32LH30 and the sony XBR6, both seem to bee also good choices, the lg uses S-IPS panel and the sony i'm not sure, but i know it has a very low input lag. Any pros or cons from this tvs?

[Frag Maniac]

I don't like LGs IPS TVs because they use a very aggressive anti-glare coating that considerably darkens the screen. Next to other sets it sticks out like a sore thumb when an all white screen comes on, where it looks light grey instead. Neither of those are going to be low in input lag. For that go Panasonic. Sharp has some low lag TVs too, as does Toshiba, but there's some color smearing issues with the Toshys.

[Stealth42o]

I bought a Samsung 32' 1080 LN32B530 and it is perfect. Had a 40' and 37' and both were to much.

http://www.samsclub.com/shopping/navigate.do?dest=5&item_nbr=723455&iid=11-26-09_Splash|ThanksgivingEvent

Upgrade from a 24' gateway 1080 I bought 4 years back.