New subwoofer project started

[jason str]

Just sold my Klipsch sub 12 to fund my new horn loaded 15" subwoofer project, maybe some have heard of the Tuba HT.

My Klipsch was a great sub for home theater, it really hit hard but muddied up over 50 hz or so, right where i needed to blend with my other horn loaded woofers in my Klipsch LaScala's.

Parts are on the way and i will have some pictures of the build as i go along.

This thing is really supposed to have some high output and clean sounds so be sure to stay tuned for updates.

[coyotetu]

Looking forward to it, the THT is quite capable and well designed. I'm looking at putting one or two together myself this summer. Are you going for the full width version?

[jason str]

24 1/2" version.

[jason str]

Made some progress today
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/jasonstr/tuba022.jpg

My son the helper
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/jasonstr/tuba008.jpg

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/jasonstr/tuba001.jpg

Not one drop of glue on my clothes yet, knock on wood.

[coyotetu]

Not one drop of glue on my clothes yet, knock on wood.

Are you using PL300 (be thankful if you aren't)? I used it for a pair of Tritrix and boy did it ruin one of my shirts, also took about 4 days for the glue to come off my hands. It's an amazing glue, but you can't trust a klutz like me around it.

[jason str]

I,m using PL premium polyurethane construction adhesive, good stuff.

Amp,woofer & hardware came today, Fed Ex must have hired one gopher just for me, i just ordered the stuff.:rofl:

[jason str]

More pics.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/jasonstr/tuba010.jpghttp://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/jasonstr/tuba011.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/jasonstr/tuba007-1.jpghttp://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/jasonstr/tuba026.jpg

[EniGmA1987]

Interesting design on the inside.

[Donnie27]

Just sold my Klipsch sub 12 to fund my new horn loaded 15" subwoofer project, maybe some have heard of the Tuba HT.

My Klipsch was a great sub for home theater, it really hit hard but muddied up over 50 hz or so, right where i needed to blend with my other horn loaded woofers in my Klipsch LaScala's.

Parts are on the way and i will have some pictures of the build as i go along.

This thing is really supposed to have some high output and clean sounds so be sure to stay tuned for updates.

Sweet stuff bud! My room mate in the Army had Klipsch Bells and I like the LaSalas as well.

I love some of the sealed subs and to get a sealed sub up to 115db is Crazy Good! WOW, LOL!

[jason str]

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/jasonstr/004-1.jpg

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/jasonstr/005-1.jpg

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/jasonstr/001-2.jpg

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/jasonstr/002-1.jpg

[jason str]

Alright, i finished the build on Thursday though not painted yet i wanted to give this thing a good test.

The subwoofer was broken in with a 10-40hz sweep over 3+ days free-air

First just let me say this project was worth every bit of back pain I'm dealing with moving this pig of a box to my bedroom, yes i wrenched my back pretty good and usually it is solid.

This is the cleanest most musical subwoofer i have ever heard and i have heard plenty high end stuff. The Tuba HT is of a sealed design but belts out even the lowest frequencies with ease, the HT Tuba is very efficient because of the horn loaded design and only needs 100 watts or so to shake not only my house but the neighbors too.

If i was to build a sealed subwoofer to keep up with this thing i would need a stack of 12" subs and well over 1000 watts to power them and still i would miss the lower subsonic frequencies this thing produces.

The cabinet can be built with a range of drivers and widths from 18 - 36" wide but i chose the 25" wide version to be sure it fit through my doors,(36" x 36" x 25" ). My subwoofer selection was the Dayton classic 15" driver and Dayton 240 watt plate amp.

This project can be built by anybody with decent woodworking skills in under a week so feel free to have a go.

Plans can be purchased here.
http://billfitzmaurice.net/

More info in the project.
http://billfitzmaurice.net/THT.html

[EniGmA1987]

I think I will build one of these to go with my other subs...

How much do you think you spent on all the wood, glue, nails, and anything else, plus the 15" driver?




Something else Im wondering... what do you think would happen to output if you were to add two 10" (or maybe 12s?) passive radiators to the sides (one on each side). It would still be "sealed" with the main driver in that the passive radiators would not let air get out the side. So the overall sound shouldn't really change, but it should give some extra bass output to the speaker and spread it through the room...
Or what if you put two more drivers on the side instead of passive radiators, then had them phase reversed with the main horn loaded driver so that the side drivers actually worked in sync with the main driver to push even more sound without having to use a lot more power for the volume. (reversing the phase would make the side speakers be moving out while the main driver is moving in, and vise versa)

[STEvil]

If the secondary drivers moved out while the main driver moved in you'd have just about nothing happening. You need all movement to create pressure otherwise you are "out of phase".

Passive radiators would change from a 4th order bandpass (sealed backside) to somewhere near a 6th order (ported backside) basically. You can try it and then just put plates over where they were to test the difference. It should make for better low end extension but your main driver will have a high probability of bottoming out easily.

An interesting test would be to modify it into an 8th order bandpass.. but the pressure created in the horn throat may cause this to be hard, to say the least.

[jason str]

There is nowhere to install any passive radiator even if it would work with the design.

You cannot just add a horn loaded subwoofer to your system to play with your other subwoofer(s), mixing the horn loaded sub with a direct radiator type sub will not work because of phase issues but you could add more than one matching Tuba if you need that much output.

Materials, woofer & amp came in under $350, not including cabinet finish.

[STEvil]

There is nowhere to install any passive radiator even if it would work with the design.

Access panel(s).


You cannot just add a horn loaded subwoofer to your system to play with your other subwoofer(s), mixing the horn loaded sub with a direct radiator type sub will not work because of phase issues but you could add more than one matching Tuba if you need that much output.

Mostly due to excursion issues. The implications are not to add a second subwoofer but to add the passive radiator to the horn. A positive or negative side effect can only be known after it is tested.


Materials, woofer & amp came in under $350, not including cabinet finish.

Nice ;)

[Zayras]

Looking good, I want to see this thing painted :yepp::up::clap:

[jason str]

There is not enough room to install a passive radiator as i already mentioned.


Direct radiators or passive radiators will not play nice with this design of subwoofer, the long length of the horn path will cause phase problems, you must only use one or more of the same design.


Paint is coming soon, as soon as my back is better

[STEvil]

There is not enough room to install a passive radiator as i already mentioned.

Then use smaller ones and/or modified design.



Direct radiators or passive radiators will not play nice with this design of subwoofer, the long length of the horn path will cause phase problems, you must only use one or more of the same design.

With the design of the horn you mean. Phase problems are not an issue if you do something like an 8th order bandpass, as in seal the passive radiator from the air volume that the horn actively interacts with.



Paint is coming soon, as soon as my back is better

I'm not saying this particular horn or every horn would benefit from a passive radiator or an active driver, or that they would improve any existing designs. I'm only suggesting that things can be done.

[coyotetu]

Materials, woofer & amp came in under $350, not including cabinet finish.
That's quite a good price, what amp are you using?

[jason str]

Then use smaller ones and/or modified design.




With the design of the horn you mean. Phase problems are not an issue if you do something like an 8th order bandpass, as in seal the passive radiator from the air volume that the horn actively interacts with.




I'm not saying this particular horn or every horn would benefit from a passive radiator or an active driver, or that they would improve any existing designs. I'm only suggesting that things can be done.

If you think a couple 5 or 6" passive radiators will help improve on the design feel free to ask Bill about them at his forum, he designed the build, i gave my opinion already.

http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/


That's quite a good price, what amp are you using?

I am using the Dayton 240 watt amp but 100 clean watts will shake the foundation with this design.

[Donnie27]

If you think a couple 5 or 6" passive radiators will help improve on the design feel free to ask Bill about them at his forum, he designed the build, i gave my opinion already.

http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/

I am using the Dayton 240 watt amp but 100 clean watts will shake the foundation with this design.

Naw, don't worry about passive radiators stuff because this folded horn was designed for a sealed enclosure. Please note the small amount of internal volume of speaker cavity or that chamber has? I doubt this works in either ported or with a Radiator. The secret of sealed enclosures is that they require less internal volume than Bass Reflex or Bandpass. Pressure behind the driver is important. Louder isn't always better.

The only thing important here is that you like the result=P I use that same AMP and got two others to use it. Both of them are happy with it as well.

http://www.klausaudio.com/subwoofer-box-articles/sealed-vs.-ported.php
http://www.hifisoundconnection.com/Shop/Control/fp/SFV/30046/view_page/Sealed_VS_Ported_Subwoofer_Boxes

All will say something similar. It goes like Sealed is more accurate while the others are louder. The folded horn compensates for what many see as the biggest drawback, sound level or volume. Some one who knows what they're talking about.

A good FAIR read!---> http://diyaudiocorner.tripod.com/dilemma.htm

Again, very nice Job!

[Donnie27]

If you think a couple 5 or 6" passive radiators will help improve on the design feel free to ask Bill about them at his forum, he designed the build, i gave my opinion already.

http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/



I am using the Dayton 240 watt amp but 100 clean watts will shake the foundation with this design.

Please give us an update!

[jason str]

The project is done and up for sale in a few places so i can start another build.

Horn mouth will be covered with a cloth grille when i get a chance.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/jasonstr/010.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/jasonstr/016.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/jasonstr/012.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/jasonstr/008-1.jpg

[Nanometer]

Nice! I wish you lived closer so I could commission work from you. You are clearly capable of making nice stuff. More pics!

[Zayras]

Nice! I wish you lived closer so I could commission work from you. You are clearly capable of making nice stuff. More pics!

Agree, looks great!! :up::clap:

[jason str]

Thank you for the kind words, a few weekends ago i moved the system into the living room when i had a few friends over for some partying and tunes, having the stereo in the larger room with the subwoofer properly positioned really let us enjoy some of the capabilities of the system.

Using my big Adcom GFA 5500 to power up the LaScala's we started to throw down some power but soon it was obvious i would need to dial down the volume because the house and everything in it rattled to no end, the frequencies also needed to be tamed because the CD player would just skip through songs but after some fine tuning everything went ok.

A couple pics with me behind the camera.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/jasonstr/020.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/jasonstr/035.jpg

[Donnie27]

Thank you for the kind words, a few weekends ago i moved the system into the living room when i had a few friends over for some partying and tunes, having the stereo in the larger room with the subwoofer properly positioned really let us enjoy some of the capabilities of the system.

Using my big Adcom GFA 5500 to power up the LaScala's we started to throw down some power but soon it was obvious i would need to dial down the volume because the house and everything in it rattled to no end, the frequencies also needed to be tamed because the CD player would just skip through songs but after some fine tuning everything went ok.

A couple pics with me behind the camera.


Must have been killer, would have loved to have been there:up:

[Donnie27]

Thank you for the kind words, a few weekends ago i moved the system into the living room when i had a few friends over for some partying and tunes, having the stereo in the larger room with the subwoofer properly positioned really let us enjoy some of the capabilities of the system.

Using my big Adcom GFA 5500 to power up the LaScala's we started to throw down some power but soon it was obvious i would need to dial down the volume because the house and everything in it rattled to no end, the frequencies also needed to be tamed because the CD player would just skip through songs but after some fine tuning everything went ok.

A couple pics with me behind the camera.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/jasonstr/020.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/jasonstr/035.jpg

Bumping this thread because I'm getting ready to do me one on a slightly smaller Scale.:up:

[Donnie27]

Thank you for the kind words, a few weekends ago i moved the system into the living room when i had a few friends over for some partying and tunes, having the stereo in the larger room with the subwoofer properly positioned really let us enjoy some of the capabilities of the system.

Using my big Adcom GFA 5500 to power up the LaScala's we started to throw down some power but soon it was obvious i would need to dial down the volume because the house and everything in it rattled to no end, the frequencies also needed to be tamed because the CD player would just skip through songs but after some fine tuning everything went ok.

A couple pics with me behind the camera.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/jasonstr/020.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/jasonstr/035.jpg

For info's sake!

Also, you should have told me about the Dayton PlateAmp's, noise, Hum or Ground Feedback. I have to use a Ground Loop Isolator.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=265-012
http://www.buy.com/prod/metra-gl15-ground-loop-isolator/q/sellerid/11408470/loc/111/90147543.html

The one I got from Radio Shack was $12. They work perfectly. I get Zero noise and the amp turns off and on as it should. The only Amp I like better than this one is the 500 watt version of it. The 1000 watt version is a Joke if it is not meant for a large area outside. Or if you've already destroyed your hearing.

[stgdz]

Ground loop isolators cut the signal so you will loose output in that region that the hum is occuring, the PE plate amp is noisy as hell. You can bypass this with a cheater plug like I did for awhile but I didn't want to worry about the dangers with it in case the ground wire in the amp ever got disconnected. I ended up getting a behringer A500 amp and I don't have any noise what so ever.

http://stgdz.shackspace.com/Shack/house/Hometheater/downstairs/fronts%209-13-10.jpg

Tuba's are great because they are cheap to build and you trade off space for output. The design rolls off a cliff at 20hz though so you will barely get anything below 20hz.

[jason str]

For info's sake!

Also, you should have told me about the Dayton PlateAmp's, noise, Hum or Ground Feedback. I have to use a Ground Loop Isolator.



Its not the amp's fault, something from your system is causing the noise.
Probably a bad cable or ground issue.




Tuba's are great because they are cheap to build and you trade off space for output. The design rolls off a cliff at 20hz though so you will barely get anything below 20hz.

I can easily shake the house with a 10 hz note, barely any output below 20 hz is slightly stretching the truth.

[stgdz]

I can easily shake the house with a 10 hz note, barely any output below 20 hz is slightly stretching the truth.its all in the room gain though, mine and most others roll off at 20hz.
http://stgdz.shackspace.com/Shack/house/Hometheater/downstairs/tuba/firstsweep.png


but as you can see my room is unfinished since I put all the important stuff, gear, first. I bet those lascala's sound great. Amazing how people are finally moving back to horn's and seeing the gains of high efficiency drivers after all these years of skinny speakers.

[Donnie27]

Its not the amp's fault, something from your system is causing the noise.
Probably a bad cable or ground issue.

I can easily shake the house with a 10 hz note, barely any output below 20 hz is slightly stretching the truth.

I agree about the rumble shake low Hz and not sure about the 20Hz roll off. I can however easily say the AMP is at fault. Not a bad cable or the location. I tried it out in the my Garage where NOTHING could cause the noise. See below?

Reply to both posts!


Ground loop isolators cut the signal so you will loose output in that region that the hum is occuring, the PE plate amp is noisy as hell. You can bypass this with a cheater plug like I did for awhile but I didn't want to worry about the dangers with it in case the ground wire in the amp ever got disconnected. I ended up getting a behringer A500 amp and I don't have any noise what so ever.

image

Tuba's are great because they are cheap to build and you trade off space for output. The design rolls off a cliff at 20hz though so you will barely get anything below 20hz.

Only the Sub's amp was Generating Noise. At one time I had four Subs and a Bass Guitar AMP. Both the Dayton AMP and Behringer create Hum or ground noise. Both are very sensitive and or wired wrong=P

Behringer BX4500H Ultrabass Bass Amplifier Head (450 Watts)
None of the other 3 Subs had any kind of noise, hum, or etc......... The others are a JBL SB120 12 500 Watt unit (now where the other DIY amp use to be), a cheap underrated 10" KLH and a Polk Audio PSW505 (recently sold for more than I paid for it). Also, none of the 3 sets of Computer speaker subs created or generated any kind of back ground noise like then Dayton in the same locations or any of the 4 four areas I tried it. I still have two of the Computer subs as well, a Creative 650 and a Logitech 560Z.

OK, now that that's out of the way. My Isolator has virtually no affect on my Sub and I did direct A vs B with the back ground noise and without. Only the Hum disappeared (60Hz range if I had to guesstimate). If some small insignificant frequency or Volume was lost, I couldn't tell. All of my system is Crossed over at 70Hz or set at the Receiver (Pioneer 819) and Sound Card, X-Fi Prelude, DIYer Mains, and Optimus Mach One's on the rear for now. If I needed to, I could Cross it over at 60Hz to make sure nothing is left out.

[breathemetal]

I gott ask. What was the total cost of it all?

[STEvil]

$50-$200 depending on what you have on hand

[breathemetal]

$50-$200 depending on what you have on hand

Id like to build my own sometime soon.
But i really have no experience.
My uncle is really good with wood so i may have him help me.
Any good guides?

[STEvil]

The simplest "well tuned" enclosure to build is usually a transmission line (t-line). They are based on quarter wave theory and are literally a single long port that maintains (for basic designs) the same size internally from the beginning to the end.

-First to build a T-line you take the speed of sound (1130 feet per second) and divide that by 4 (quarter wave).
-Second you choose what frequency you would like to tune the line to. Many people tune to the Fs of their driver, but you dont need to do this in reality. For a basic example i'll use 30hz.
-Third step is to divide 282.5 (quarter wave) by your desired tuning frequency to calculate the length of the line.
-Fourth you need to measure your subwoofer's cone area (sd). TTr^2. ;) The correct measurement method if your specs are not availabe is from the center of the surround on one side to the other. For a 10" driver this is usually 9" or so. This number tells you what the internal cross-section of the line should be. For example with 63" of surface area for the driver you will need to make the line something like 5" x 12.6" internally.
-The last step is to fold your enclosure efficiently.. its the tricky part;)

For folding examples "Forevrbumpn" has a few examples (with his guide which mine is probably about identical to) here: http://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/1828-quarter-wave-t-line-tutorial-updated/

1130/4 = 282.5.
Tuning Frequency: 30hz
Line length = 282.5/30 = 9.417 feet
sd = TT x 4.5^2 = 63.585 square inches

Now for some tips and tricks.

Depending on the excursion capabilities of your subwoofer you can make the t-line internal area a bit "small" to maintain driver control.
Power wise they dont need a lot, at all. They are very efficient.
If you want to tune your line "high" to save space you can flare the end of the line like a horn to still manage the low tuning and even increase effective active area when corner or wall loading the unit. As to the best flare rate.. the longer the better, just like a horn.
When you build the enclosure it is a good idea to round or "45" all internal corners for better aerodynamics.

If you want to read about horns here's a start (lol). Rocketscience gives some good basic info on mouth size relating to effective resonance of the line/horn.

http://ldsg.snippets.org/HORNS/design.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horn_loudspeaker
http://www.rocketsciencecanada.com/rocketsciencecanada/Sound/Horns/Info_SizeShape.asp
calc too: http://www.sonicdesign.se/horncalc.html

read the wiki first, it will scare you less lol

[breathemetal]

Wow...

Thanks a ton!
Thats a lot of info