Which OS is best?

[Snow Crash]

All observations welcomed. I will only suggest that we post what we have experienced, and things we would like to find the truth about :-)

Once we have a decent base maybe we can coordinate some controlled tests to prove things out. I will be double posting on GPUGrid this weekend to see what comes up over there but I know some of us do not read both foums.

Base OS: With my GTX295 on WinXP32 the CPU usage is MUCH lower (300-600) than with Vista (2400-3600) so it processes a bit faster.

GPU OC: We *know* the best bang for the buck is OCing the shaders and to a less degree the memory and nothing is gained on bumping the core but how much (if anything) has this changed since GPUGrid has changed their app? Memory is being used at about 20% so maybe we can get more performance here than previously thought?

CPU OC: Even though CPU usage is very low (depending on OS) can raw GHZ help much?
and what if we bump the ACEMD priority in Task Manager?

[Otis11]

I'd be interested in seeing if changing the PCI-e speed would make a difference... Raises throughput, but I don't think that would make a difference...???

[pwolfe]

I'd be happy to provide any data from a linux install that could prove useful, just let me know what kinds of information would be needed

[Kingcarcas]

Windows 7, there is nothing else. :cool:

[MikeB12]

I have 2 machines on xp and one on 7....

the ppd varies, so I'm not sure how to comment on which os is best.....
the xp 2xgts250 is about 3k high right now, have no idea why... it's usually about 19k. maybe it's the batch of wu's.. who knows?

http://i47.tinypic.com/14ya6pu.jpg


PCI-e speed
doubt pci-e clock is gonna make much difference... there's plenty of bandwidth there. It's gonna be hard to tell though. alot of it has to do with wu type and error free running. so trying to bench a gpugrid machine will most likely be a non-scientific method endeavor.

imo, I just get it stable and let it run and produce results. my os choice is not based on gpugrid, it's based on what I want and what I have available.
the app sems to be mor driver dependent than os dependent, imo.. currently I'm on 195.62

[Snow Crash]

I was switching cards around this morning and noticed that on my Vista Ult 64, 6GB RAM, i7-920 that with HT on, that my GPU load was very low ... 48-49% and GPU Memory usage was at 14%. When I turned HT off (same CPU and GPU clock speeds) my usage jumped up to 60-61% and 18% respectively. It is going to take me a full day or so until I can really see if there is a translation into performance increase but I would certainly think so. The numbers above are for one of the IBUCH PQPYipyPI (the one with all the crazy PQYI in upper and lower case)

{update}
For comparison I just started one of these same IBUCH wus as above on my XP machine (HT ON) and my GPU Load was 64% and memory 15%. At first blush it looks like XP w/ HT ON processes as fast as Vista w/ HT OFF.

On both Vista and XP if you unload the CPU (like any of us would do that long term :shakes:the GPU load goes up ~3% and memory ~1%.

{/update}

I know most of us (me included) crunch GPUGrid as a side project while we focus on CPU crunching and no one want to turn HT off, I'm just trying to identify performance issues.

Now for Windows XP Pro 32 ... even with HT on my GPU load for a GIANNI_BIND is about 90% :shocked:


One last mention for this morning ... If you guys are getting any of the new DDDT2 WU from WCG best check your rigs as they are huge memory hogs. Yesterday ... on my 6 GB RAM i7-920 Vista Ult 64 w 6GB fast RAM I was running 4 Einsteins, 1 Climate (another memory hog), 3 DDDT2, and 2 GPU Grids ... everything started running like a dog :shakes:
Who would have thought that 6 GB RAM would not be enough for crunching :rofl:

[Snow Crash]

XP seems to be the best version of Windows and with a quick look at other people's stats it seems like Vista and 7 are very close to each other, with no clear advantage between those two.

Captain has some great data on different OSes. Between a couple of 260s the 100 MHz shader advantage should not make a 45 minute advantage between XP 64 and Win7!

That being said I focused on XP this morning with a GTX295, i7-920 and have some rough numbers.
1. The difference between HT ON / OFF with CPU loaded is ~1% GPU Load and ~1% Memory Load
2. The difference bewteen HT ON and CPU idle is ~2% GPU load, ~1% Memory Load.
3. The difference bewteen HT OFF and CPU idle is ~2% GPU load, ~1% Memory Load.
4. HT OFF with 3 cores loaded flickers between 0 to ~1% GPU Load.
5. HT OFF with 3 cores and setting affinity on the processes so that the CPU wus each run on their own core and the 2 GPU wus on the remaining core was a FAIL. It actually runs at the same GPU and Memory Loads as if HT is on and all 8 cores are loaded with CPU wus. I think I'll let the OS and CPU do their job in this area!
6. Manually setting the ACEMD processes to High priority in Task Manager gets almost 1% GPU load higher.

My conclusion from all of this is that I will not be upgrading my XP box to Win7, I will leave HT ON but need to make sure I pick low RAM required projects (WCG HCMD2 fits nicely). All of the jiggling around only makes 1-2% GPU load at best while sacraficing WCG crunching.

Next up ... trying to bump my Shaders to make up that 1-2% difference :-)
I have read that bumping volts through a tool like EVGA Voltage Tuner only helps the GPU core and not the Shaders, and that only running cooler can help you OC your shaders to their max. Not sure I believe this one but will do some testing and post back later.

Till then, getting your cards to run without error is the single greatest improvement you can make to your production. We still have lots of people who are seeing intermittent errors which is holding them back.

[Otis11]

Great job SC. Just something i noticed though...

check your cpu limit on GPUGrid. If it's limiting your you CPU usage artificially low it may choke your GPU...?

And for the OC, would it help to undervolt the core so you can run it cooler? Then crank up the shaders?

[Snow Crash]

check your cpu limit on GPUGrid
That parameter only applies to screensavers on CPU projects ... does not matter to GPUGrid.
I currently only using my "Default" profile so both macines are using the same project settings.

Sorry if I was not clear, when I was referring to temps I was referring to GPU temps not CPU temps. While CPU temp will in general effect case temps (like I'm running this inside a case ... NOT) with proper exhaust what your CPU is doing will not matter (temp wise) to what your GPU can do.

None of the following have even been sketched out on the back of a napkin ... this is straight stream of consiousness ...
I am toying with moving the 285 onto the XP box but I'll need to get a little fancy with using at least 1 pcie cable from the psu the Vista machine is running. At the moment they are not quite close enough to do that. I will also be RAM challenged when I go that route because my XP is only 32 bit so between 1792 for the 295 and 1024 for the 285 I will only be able to address 1.2 GB ram. The OS is pretty small (couple hundred MB I think), ~80-90MB per WU, that puts me up around 570 MB if I think conservative. So that leaves me about 630 MB free? With virtual memory running up to about 135 MB per WU I'm starting to get very close to the point where I start thrashing the hard drive ... nasty effect on performance that would be. Who's got an extra XP 64 license hanging around???

[DAK1640]

Nice work there SnowCrash :clap:

[Snow Crash]

Some runtime result averages that highlight the differences by OS and HT:
All WUs were GIANNI BIND which are pretty uniform, making them easy to compare.
So much delta can not be explained simply by batch variance which is typically only about +- 5 mins between WUs.

GTX295 Vista HT ON = 5 hours 30 minutes
GTX295 XP32 HT ON = 4 hours 45 minutes
(yes, that is the same 45 minutes I dug out from looking at Captains stats)

GTX285 Vista HT OFF = 4 hours 20 minutes
GTX285 XP32 HT ON = 4 hours 5 minutes

So you can run XP with HT ON and still score better than Vista with HT OFF.
I think that is referred to as having your cake and eating it too :party:

[Otis11]

Oh, I wasn't worried about temps... I was thinking that some of each WU had to be done on the CPU iirc...? And that if it didn't get that part done it would slow down the rest of the WU...

And those are some nice findings! Thought of looking at win 7 yet?

[Snow Crash]

Oh, I wasn't worried about temps... I was thinking that some of each WU had to be done on the CPU iirc...? And that if it didn't get that part done it would slow down the rest of the WU...
What setting are you referring to?


And those are some nice findings! Thought of looking at win 7 yet?
I am pretty sure after looking at lots of different people's results on GPUGrid that Win7 has about the same overhead as Vista, but yes, some day I will move my Vista onto Win7 just to see what's up with it.

I'd like to do a quick followup to pwolfe ... brother, they are still messing with the new version for Linux and it is still taking way too much CPU compared to XP (and even more than Vista/ Win7). When they do get it straight, I will definately hit you up for stats, thanks. To all the Linux folks, if they can get us going with a good 64 bit I will likely need a boatload of help just to get the OS installed much less learning the ins and outs of driver installs, OC tools etc.

What do you want to see next?
Any ideas on the Shader to Memory ratio so the shaders don't get choked?
How far can we turn down Core? Does that have any real effect? These questions would be an attempt to reduce unecessary power consumption and try to keep heat under control.

Who want to start the OS tweak section? Volunteers? Otis? did you just raise your hand? Lets find the stuff beyond turning off themes (I actually read somewhere that using Silver Luna theme was better than turning them off ... got to try that!!!), turn off indexing, turn off autoupdate restarts, turn on system restart on crash ... So by OS then by impact, split up for those people crunching on their main rigs (GU suspend, gaming auto suspendingh, etc) and then the dedicated crunching machines. Even if it is just an outline and starts with what we can all find on google that's OK. I am thinking in general if we can get these crunching *guides* together maybe we can sticky them up?

[Otis11]

Haha, what did you want me to do? I'm up for whatever but unfortunately I don't have the ability to start messing with things on my machines... The only computers I have regular access to I don't mess with the settings cuz if they go down for a day, I'm screwed.

But I'll try my best at whatever. Oh and if you're willing to try win 7 on something I can get you a free TEMPORARY copy of win 7 Professional...

And I was referring to the "Maximum CPU % for graphics 0 ... 100" setting under Grid preferences. :shrug:

[CaptMorgan]

I was hoping Win 7 64-bit would have a slight advantage

[Snow Crash]

Sounds like it is time to start the Windows 7 GPU crunching tweaks
Throw em up boys and lets see what we come up with.

1. Turn Off Indexing
2. Turn Off Themes (already mentioned I saw a post that says some benchies run better wih Silver Luna than with themes turned off so this one might be a surprise)

I got some stuff from SKGiven at GPUGrid ...


Disable Aero - Aero will slow down GPU tasks, so disable it.
Right click on the desktop[b/], choose [b]Personalize. Then select Windows 7 Basic.

Disable Indexing Services and other background services such as Gadgets
- These use up system resources, unnecessarily, so disable them.
Open Control Panel, from the Start menu,
Click Programs, then under Programs and Features, click Turn Windows features on and off
Deselect anything that you do not Require.
Someone with Windows 7 please start detailing this list.


Disable Disk Indexing
Right Click on the Start menu (windows logo) and select Explore
Locate your hard disk drive. Right click on it and select Properties
Unselect Index this drive for faster searching

Configure Windows Update so that it does not Automatically Restarting Your Computer after Installing Updates
Click Start, Control Panel, Security,
Click Turn automatic updating on or off
Select one of the following,
Download updates but let me choose whether to install them
Check for updates but let me choose whether to download and install them
Never check for updates

Configure Power Options - Go to Control Panel, System and Maintenance, Power Options
Make Sure High Performance is Selected.
Click Change Plan Settings,
Make sure, Put the Computer to Sleep is set to Never
You may also want to look at your advanced power settings. It is fine to turn the monitor off, but make sure the system is not set to shut down devices.

PS. I recommend that people do not disable system restore, it’s there for a good reason!

That's a start but I bet you all have more. Who is a serious CPU / GPU bencher? What tweaks do you use?

[CaptMorgan]

I can do the above-but as I type I just rebooted my server because I obviously spoke too soon and my 285 got errors again :(. Also I will be firing up a new rig today with the 2 275's I got from Infernal, should I follow through with the configuration I was going to setup with? Or for the above should I set it specifically? should I only install 1 card? Let me know

[Snow Crash]

I screwed my DVD player somehow so can't even install Win7 (I actuallly had to physically take the player apart to get my damn disc out of it) ... so I don't know how it acts at all in regards to GPU Grid.
I would get the new system up and running with one card at stock settings. Add the second card only after you are super stable (like maybe a couple of 3-5 days with no errors). Not sure if you will need the SLI bridge or if you will need a dummy plug and extend the desktop for the second card to crunch. Slow but steady my friend. It sounds like you are having some problems lately so I would suggest getting the rigs up one by one and work on getting the cards stable at GPUGrid the same way, one by one. Don't worry about OCing them yet, just get them running. As you work each machine, post up a full config so we can all play backseat driver for you :-)