A Guide to Water Cooling

[jellyrole]

This is not meant to advertise, I merely want some professional tips and comments about this guide.

http://techarkade.com/component/content/article/38-cooling/352-a-guide-to-water-cooling.html

What do you think of the thoroughness of the guide? Does it make sense? Does it help?

These are just some sample questions I'm looking to have answered.

Thanks guys!

[NaeKuh]

i think its fairly well written..

However note about dye's should be given.

They stain, no matter what company makes the premix coolant.

[Sadasius]

I doubt he would put that in though with Fester as a sponsor. :rolleyes: Then again it's Jellyrole and he's a pretty good guy and I doubt very much he would let a sponsor dictate what to put in a guide or not. Right Jellyrole?

[shazza]

Good job on the guide. I'll do a more thorough read tomorrow, but saw this (typo I think):



MYTH #3 - Using Anti-Freeze Kills prevents algae buildup in your system.



Also, I believe the section on coolants is far too biased towards using Feser One (and I am a fan of colored coolants and have used Feser One). Someone new to water cooling would read this section in your guide and think it was BETTER (maybe lots better) to use Feser One instead of distilled water. Also misleading when talking about the price of distilled and "all the additives" you need.

[Conumdrum]

You start with sponsors. Buy my stuff. It's not a guide to start with. It's a advertisement.

These types of 'logs' etc make me sick.


Point: You state its only .5C difference in a loop. Where is your research? .5C? It's can be up to 3 C depending.

Ohh crap, I kept on reading.

"MYTH #6 - A quad pass radiator performs better than a dual pass radiator.

FACTS - This depends on the design, as the tubes where the water flows will be closer together, ergo less air passing through the fins!"

Wait, your talking about water flow rates and trying to compare to AIR flow rates.

How many folks in the next year do I have to correct to fix the marketing get a paycheck attitude of this so called review? How many screwed up rigs will be built because of this?

Another edit:
Faster fans create more noise.
Wow.

[edit...(comment deleted) ...end edit]That home website is off my list. I can imaging what the 'forum experts' who approved it have as watercooling.

What fun.

[alacheesu]

Point: You state its only .5C difference in a loop. Where is your research? .5C? It's can be up to 3 C depending.

I don't think he can answer that, because he didn't write that part. He copied this post (http://overclockerstech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40) (notice the misspelling, "differnce") which again is cut and paste from the original guide on overclockers.com from 2004 (http://www.overclockers.com/watercooling-myths-exposed/). He should at least have copied the original guide. :ROTF:

Well, between that and the amazing Feser ad opening, I didn't bother reading further.

[jellyrole]

I don't think he can answer that, because he didn't write that part. He copied this post (http://overclockerstech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40) (notice the misspelling, "differnce") which again is cut and paste from the original guide on overclockers.com from 2004 (http://www.overclockers.com/watercooling-myths-exposed/). He should at least have copied the original guide. :ROTF:

Well, between that and the amazing Feser ad opening, I didn't bother reading further.

I don't think I can answer that because I didn't write any of it...this was written by another member of the staff. I asked basicly for constructive criticism and you're ripping my :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::b anana: open in a very unprofessional way. I do appreciate what you're saying though.

[alacheesu]

I don't think I can answer that because I didn't write any of it...this was written by another member of the staff. I asked basicly for constructive criticism and you're ripping my :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::b anana: open in a very unprofessional way. I do appreciate what you're saying though.

I have nothing against you personally, I just don't like seeing plagiarism. I also dislike seeing real, useful information mixed with marketing, like

So that settles it. Buy a bottle or two (depending on the size of your loop) of your favorite color (UV or not) of Feser One and be done with it.

Here's my real problem with all this: You're asking XS members to help improve a guide, hosted on a competing forum, that is largely a marketing piece about Feser and DD products. Your guide also ripped at least one part from a guide written by someone else. Finally, it not only heavily advertises Feser/DD products, but at some points makes claims about their performance that are dubious at best (ex. the fluid section).

[shazza]

Whoa ... I read the guide because i thought jellyrole wrote it (I see he doesn't actually say that in the OP, but that's how I took it), and because I think it's best to get good info about water cooling out there for more people to see.

Now it looks like it is not an original guide, and parts have been lifted from other sources??? I've no problem with that, as long as the original author/website is credited - which doesn't appear to be the case here.

And - far too much marketing BS. I take it back, not a "good" job on this guide.

The question I should have asked - what is the purpose, and who is the target audience for this guide?

[jellyrole]

shazza, what do you mean it doesn't look like an original guide? Chad, a member of my staff for TechArkade.com wrote. Please elaborate more on this, I'm really interested in what you have to say(no sarcasm here).

[jellyrole]

Hey guys, I showed the author of the guide this thread and here is his response to all of you:




I thank you all for the input and corrections to this guide. I say guide and not review specifically. It was intended to inform people of the items required to use this form of cooling and the setup process, not to review the performance of specific products. After seeing your comments I recognized some corrections that needed to be made. Let me respond to your posts individually:

NaeKuh – I agreed on the dyes comment and simply forgot to add it originally. Additional information about this has been added.

Sadasius – I did add comments on dyes, and am not afraid to state the negative features of a product that is provided to me.

Shazza – Rereading, I agreed that it appeared *very* biased towards FESER ONE. That was not because of them sending it to me, but yet because I have used it since I switched from DI water. I do agree that it did not benefit our readers however, and changed it. A list of additives that I used to use and approximate prices has also been added to clarify the expense of DI water.

Conumdrum – Starting with the sponsors after the introduction is not an ad, but a common practice both in the reviews that I have read and written. As stated in the guide, I normally place the “about us” section of their website, but neither of these companies has one in place. Myth #6 is referring to the fact that most quad pass radiators have a tighter fin pattern, reducing airflow. “Faster fans make more noise” was not written very clearly and has been changed to “More powerful fans tend to create more noise.”

Alacheesu – You are correct that I obtained that from another forum. I had intended to both modify and cite it, and apparently forgot. Granted, this should have been caught before the guide was published, but please note that I made inline references to all other articles whose information I used in the guide. Upon reading it further, I do not see a way for it to be appropriately modified into my own information. I still feel that it has some important information for our readers though, and has been noted and referenced as such.

As you have read, I have taken everything that you all have said to heart. I truly intended to write a guide to setting up water cooling. I am always happy to revisit and modify my writing as necessary. As I was/am writing this guide, I am going through a divorce. Though not an excuse for blatant plagiarism, it should clarify why my focus was not as good as usual. Please feel free to contact me directly with any other constructive criticism or flaming that you would like. K7leafclover@techarkade.com

[shazza]

Good follow up. I'll try to get some time to review the new version, but looks like it is going in the right direction.

[NaeKuh]

Yes you dont want to advertise.. thats the first thing.

It makes people think your guide was paid off.

Second, i dont find anything wrong with copying other guides, as long as you give credit where its due.

The key thing is just give credit where its due.

Some things i noticed while my guide has been up for 3 yrs now.

1. Dont do a tier ranking in parts, because they change so fast, what you call #1 will not be #1.
Then it means u need to do unnecessary edits.

2. Try to keep it as simple worded as possible. A lot of people dont speak english as there first language, and you bust out college level words, google translate will fubar its translation.

3. Make sure you list out the class. The first question ANYONE should answer when setting up water is Objective.
Are you going for straight OC? or silence.

Its really sad like 2 yrs ago, people would have a list of basic questions they would ask.

Now its more like I WANT THE BLINGIEST H2O setup that will give me 6ghz while producing 10dbz of noise... <--- Face Palm reaction....

Remember water has always had tiers in objective... its those objectives that define what parts you are going to use, and how to pull it off in working order.

[Conumdrum]

Jellyrole? I'd like to point you to this watercooling guide. You can see the writers experiance and ability to get the important stuff mentioned. Besides the odds and ends I have written around the web, his is the best and most (pretty much) up to date. Any advertisements are on the web page and not screaming right at word one in the article.

http://www.overclockerstech.com/water-cooling-guide-for-beginners/

Thanks for the reply and the writers comments. I was harsh but thats how I felt, it was a truly honest, '"OMG, as a kinda knowledgeable watercooler, I would never link this to anyone". We get biased after seeing sooo many guides and many are just just...........

[eth0s]

It's not bad for a first draft. I would cut out the sponsors though, if you want to be taken seriously. If they already paid you, well, I guess you're stuck with it. But as it stands now, it reads like an advertisement for Feser and Danger Den masquerading as a public service announcement (I would like to say white paper, but it's not up to that level). I would also lose the whole Myth and Mythbuster section. First of all, it's not that good. Secondly, it's not as good as the stuff you wrote yourself, so why junk up your piece with some someone else's cr@p? It seems like "filler" to me. And FAQ sections (which is what it really is) are always lame. However, I liked the thermal conductivity discussion and the specific heat discussion. I think you need to spend more time with it. In the end, I applaud your effort, and encourage you to do better. :up:

I know criticism can feel like getting your "@sshol3 ripped open" sometimes, but my advice is to just let it roll off, it's just somebody's opinion, and may or may not even be correct. Anyway, I admire your courage for putting your piece on-line and asking the public to comment.

[StAndrew]

Stop putting absolutes on things that are so dependant on personal preference! There are no "best" radiators or water blocks, whether its a product or design. I see so many people doing this (whether writing a guide or giving advice).

A good guide should cover the pro's and con's of each block/radiator (or at least common designs) and let the consumer pick was is best for his needs. I recommend you go through and remove any statement claiming one design or product is better than the other.

As for the sponsors, I feel this is more of an advertisement than a guide. While most users will see through this clever disguise, I feel sorry for those beginners who waste their time and money on products that are inaccurately portrayed in this write up (ie Feser 1).

[gmat]

I remember Lee Garbutt (aka Robotech) put up some good guidelines some years ago, i think i still have parts of his guide in the making in my email at home (as we had a lot of discussions over some points while making it). I'll try to contact him and see if he agrees to publishing parts of his guide that are still relevant.
Of course any guide which mentions actual parts will be outdated fast. Stick to the basic theories, common questions, and guide people so they think about the right questions when setting up a system instead of going in the wrong direction because of lack of basic information.

[hokiealumnus]

Jellyrole? I'd like to point you to this watercooling guide. You can see the writers experiance and ability to get the important stuff mentioned. Besides the odds and ends I have written around the web, his is the best and most (pretty much) up to date. Any advertisements are on the web page and not screaming right at word one in the article.

http://www.overclockerstech.com/water-cooling-guide-for-beginners/

Thanks for the reply and the writers comments. I was harsh but thats how I felt, it was a truly honest, '"OMG, as a kinda knowledgeable watercooler, I would never link this to anyone". We get biased after seeing sooo many guides and many are just just...........
Thanks for the compliment! ...but what do you mean PRETTY MUCH? :p:
Seriously though, if you see something out of date, PM me and I'll get it fixed!

Anyway, to the topic at hand. OP, I'm sorry but I'm having a lot of trouble getting past the first page with the ads in the article. If it was just "Thanks to our sponsors" and two banners, that would be one thing. But you are going way too far, basically telling people coming for a guide that this is the stuff they should buy.

Amongst their variety of accessories is FESER-ONE, the best cooling solution in the world for this application.
Really?

I will make it to the rest of the pages, but it's time to do what my employer actually pays me for. Just wanted to share the first impression, which is not really a good one. I mean no offense, just responding as requested.

[jellyrole]

Your not offending me in any way, please keep the comments coming.

[Sadasius]

I think it's the advertising aspect that jars people the most. Seriously in a guide it is to help people and to earn either loyal customers or loyal readers. So in a guide the worst thing to do is advertise in it and also to recommend the products of the sponsors. It shows you don't care about the readers and instead shows that it is a guide to line your pocket with their time. To some people it will be insulting. I know your a good guy and heck even bought stuff off of you but your heading in a very bad direction if you wish to gain and maintain a readership. If you put up a guide, be sincere. Leave the advertising to the forums etc. The work should be original. Copied work even if it is credited does not exactly earn you big points. You get big points when people copy and credit your work and connect it around the net. That is the way to do it.

[NaeKuh]

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=4596

mine.. havent touched it in a very long time tho.. lol

need to update it.. it was written during fusetalk days on AT.
We made a change to VB, and i have just been too lazy to rewrite it.

Even offered to retire it and let someone else write a new recent one, but everyone thinks its fine the way it is..