HP LP2475w Review With CRT Comparison

[Skakruk]

...

[Frag Maniac]

Well I'm still on CRT myself, but I really think you're picking a VERY bad example of LCD to opinionate yourself about them. A little research before hand would have tipped you off to the many problems of that unit. There's such a thing as diligent shopping before considering making such a review.

[FlawleZ]

I don't have time to read your full review as I'm still at work, but I can tell you that what we need are NOT better LCD's, but a replacement entirely. SED is what we need to become affordable.

Samsung was working on a thin CRT as late as 2004. The patent was later sold off to Canon which was using the technology in its latest SED flat panels in 2006.


SEDs combine the advantages of CRTs, namely their high contrast levels, wide viewing angles and very fast response times, with the packaging advantages of LCD and other flat panel technologies. They also use much less power than an LCD system of the same size. To date, however, manufacturing and financial problems have prevented any SED system from entering commercial production.

Canon acknowledged back in April of 2009 that the SED technology is still very much alive and kicking. Hopefully this will be available to the masses in the near future.

[ScorpionHD]

Well I'm still on CRT myself, but I really think you're picking a VERY bad example of LCD to opinionate yourself about them. A little research before hand would have tipped you off to the many problems of that unit. There's such a thing as diligent shopping before considering making such a review.

I agree, with you on this one!

I found something much better than this HP you are talking about
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824005134
Seriously of all brands of LCD's to pick you did a HP? WHY?:shocked:

I am not here to say that LCD's are better then CRT's they never will be because of how they are made. But let me tell you, as a CRT fan boy, there are MUCH better LCD's out there then the one you picked.

LCDs will never be able to display true blacks they cant I am sure everyone knows that...

I think I know where you are coming from, back in the day CRT's only had one difference the resolution. Well now days LCD's have progressed with time now you get what you pay for. Read any LCD buying guides and you can see what to look for.

One question, why is the response time on it so HIGH?

[ScorpionHD]

Well as a gamer wouldn't you want responsiveness and and higher contrast ratio over viewing angle?
I can see where with IPS you can get the full 24bit spectrum thats where CRTs are superior. I am still amazed at the model of LCD you picked to review lol. Like I said you get what you pay for :

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824005115

I guess you are right if you are looking to compare performance of LCD to the CRT in colors, CRTS win. But CRTS are also limited on their size + all other downsides that no one likes CRTS for.

I am waiting for OLED to take off thats the future of flat panels :D

[Frag Maniac]

Bull:banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:. Most of the main issues I had with this monitor (those that have now lead me to sell it), were fundamental issues with LCD as a technology, not just with this particular model.

And FYI I did very thourough research on this monitor befor making the purchase, but there was never any warning of the 1080p issue, component signal issues, or 50Hz flicker.Well the way I see it, the very fact that you're trying LCD for the first time and were a die hard CRT user and skeptical about LCDs, yet saw fit to take a chance on something you hadn't seen for your own eyes in store before deciding pretty much indicates you KNEW you were taking a chance. I also don't ever see ANY model of HP as the most popular ones being bought and liked by customers.

As for your "thorough" research, I seriously doubt there's NO info out there other than from you regarding the 3 problems you mentioned, and even if that WERE the case, if would just further validate my above point as to how unpopular this display is. Bottom line, if you're going to take what is a drastic step for some like you in going from CRT to LCD, you best have seen it for your own eyes, or be prepared to slip on your own banana peels because no amount of crazy little censor smilies are going to make you any more justified in whining after purchase. You made the decision yourself. I don't recall anything in that marathon rant,...eh, "review", that indicated you asked for advice and were prodded into buying that particular display.:rolleyes:

When it comes to high tech product purchases, you really need to man up and live with your decisions. The fact that you couldn't even handle a simple non flamatory opinion in response to your angst indicates you're not level headed enough to live with your own choices without trying to convince others all LCDs are crap, when in fact you're experience with them is obviously minimal at best.

@Others commenting on alternative technologies,

I don't see OLED as being as viable a tech as some have touted it to be. If you read the test reports, there are serious lifespan issues that have kept it from being widely accepted by manufacturers other than Sony, and Kodak owns the rights to it, so royalties are part of the bargain.

If that type of tech catches on, it will more likely be PLED, which was discovered by students at Cambridge University, whom later went on to Create Cavendish Labs. PLED is similar but the big difference is it uses polymers vs organics in it's film, which are not vulnerable to moisture, including humidity, like organics are. Sharp have refuted the accuracy of Sony's claimed OLED lifespan, and even their claim is not nearly as long in life as a typical LCD, about half from my recollection. If anything Sony is taking a direction toward convenience and away from picture quality and longevity. Their XBR10 LCD line favors ultra slim profiles, edge lighting and wireless hookup vs the LED array earlier models had.

At any rate, I really think the global economy is going to have to improve before many manufacturers become interested in bringing new tech to the market. New tech always means high introductory prices, and a lot of consumers are struggling to make ends meet right now. Look at how long it took them to get the HD broadcast rollover to happen in the US. It was mainly due to not enough consumers even having HDTVs period, let alone expensive high tech ones. And when the HD broadcast push back was first made, the economy was much better than it is now.

Instead what we're seeing is a trend of manufacturers in times of recession dropping SPVA and IPS models and kicking out mass quantities of cheap TNs touting super high contrast ratios which is just gimmickry plain and simple. They're basically taking advantage of the fact that many consumers don't really know that much about LCD panels, whom are lulled into thinking you can buy them on spec alone and be happy.

It doesn't take much reading though to find info on color accuracy tradeoffs with high DCR presets, among many other gimmicks. Just the fact that most gamers still think ultra low response times even show a detectable difference when in fact the average LCD refreshes at 60Hz, which takes 8ms itself, is an indication how easy it is for manufacturers to get away with their BS.

[Frag Maniac]

I don't retract anything I said. OP was insistent on whining even after he saw it in store? So what, did you just glance at it and say, wow, looks great, or actually test the settings or content you could view on it? Quite frankly this thread is only getting long in tooth because of the controversy of not just one but now TWO users that on the one hand say it's been raved about, but seem either too picky or too in denial to even know what they want or how to pick out such a product.

I may still be on CRT, but that doesn't mean I haven't read and seen enough to know what not to trust and what to base my decisions on. To be honest I'm a bit picky too, but I live with my decisions instead of claiming ALL of one type of product are bad after realizing one I've bought is not quite what I first thought it would be. I've yet to make such a mistake with a monitor though because I've always checked them out thoroughly.

Your having not only read a lot about this unit but actually seen one in store is all the more reason to say you lead yourself to the wrong decision. Can you not even trust your own eyes? Oh right, I guess now you're going to say all stores shouldn't display LCDs because they're lighting is crap. All I have to say is, if you're that picky and/or poor at picking things out, make sure you have easy refund options, and stop placing blame elsewhere. It was your decision, yours alone, and the fact that you spent some time making it places the responsibility all the MORE on your shoulders.

[onex]

Most of the main issues I had with this monitor (those that have now lead me to sell it), were fundamental issues with LCD as a technology, not just with this particular model.
this is so true, there were two wide LCD's here, one as TV and the other is (currenty) an 24" LG W2453V which came out very cheap,
these screens are CRAP, it's hard to understand how anyone concerns using them, they are too bright, the colors are awful, configuring them to something reasonable, is impossible, as they just don't have the capabilities!
the TV flied back to the seller after 30 minutes (even after 5 it was too much), the screen isstill here, but it totally sucks.
thought the same as you did when got it, "maybe the screen is messed up, maybe a HP LP2475W or a DELL U2410 worth they're prices",
well apparently, it doesn't, and your review seems very well thought of and picky detailed.
just went through an U2410 review in TFTcentral (as much as was understandable), and wasn't too enthusiast regarding it, even though it stood in the first place from all LCD display options earlier reviewed that are out there.
reading through u'r review, just strengthens the feeling, that something is messed up with LCD's, and what's more strange about it, is that most people do accept them as they are (even the lower budget samples as this..),
going over reviews to this LG, people were quite happy with it,
this is totally BS.

maybe other displays are high quality, maybe the dell U2410 is a decent monitor, yet can't say it is,
paper specs and live ones, totally differ,
getting a review from a user (and an attention-ate one) is definitely better the the sites ones.

luckily got this LG for a very reasonable price, it's the first one, it's 1920x1080 (another deficit..) yet most people amazingly are willing to buy it, and are happy with it,
and probably every penny spend would get back.

thank u, great review!

p.s - gongo and flawlez you both have got good points too!

[onex]

o.k, update,

tweaked the screen a little bit with the Nvidia driver CP, apparently, the monitor CP totally sucks, configuring the screen to a decent view seems impossible with it, and factory reset (surprisingly and yet, unsurprising at all) is S**t...
well, what can u expect from a 250$ 24" screen?!
it actually serves exactly what u can expect from this price tag.

it seems as if the manufacturers are aiming for "as much as possible" distribution (well, what can u expect with most people lack of understanding and the tremendous market competition),
so delivering an 1080i screen 1920x1080 seems like the best option for the avg user,
it's 24", very wide (even too wide), adding to that this terrible luminance (which some or most people seems to happily hug :?) makes this screen project light like a stadium spotlight!

text still looks awful at max resolution even after intense play with CTFMON program, changing the fonts might be the only option.
it seems as if there isn't any support for 1080I screens native font (same as for 1024x768), most sites simply looks awful...
this last part, isn't quite related to the screen it self, yet,
it comes with the package :).
well,
this is totally bizzar,
how did the manufacturers havn't thought about that and how is it that so little complain about that when googling?!
nobody bothers that?!
how havn't they thought about some kind of a windows patch?!
it is just so strange, people with no graphic card driver might suffer as hell from that,
had to find it all out and play with the display for about 5 days!, to get decent results (as much as it can be called decent..)!
what about people which are less familiar with the software and hardware?!
they might pay for a technician or suffer unnecessarily for months!

anyway,
that's for that matter, not planning on hijacking this wonderful thread, just some frustrating experience moving from 1024x768 to 1080i.
will HAVE to take a look at a DELL U2410, HP's, BenQ, NEC's or whatever decent LCD firm/screen to see once and for all if this unnatural feeling is actually common!

[Frag Maniac]

So leave.Oh that decision's already been made, and on my way out, not that it'll do any good, but I suggest you learn how to shop before taking up forum space with a huge rant thread over your personal dysfunctionality in decision making. It's quite pathetic really, esp when you cry over rational responses. :rolleyes:

[Jowy Atreides]

Oh that decision's already been made, and on my way out, not that it'll do any good, but I suggest you learn how to shop before taking up forum space with a huge rant thread over your personal dysfunctionality in decision making. It's quite pathetic really, esp when you cry over rational responses. :rolleyes:

*Appluads!*

[onex]

will have to wait for a while,
the screen currently developed a nice red shining pixel right about in the middle,
customer support isn't answering, and doesn't call back either,
this really isn't worth it,
you can get a decent SSD for a reasonable price, u can get a very nice processor for a decent price, yet, this specific LCD isn't quite worth it!
it isn't worth it's 250$ tag, it worth barely 150$, yet probably it's components are quite manufacture costly..
basically,
it is exactly what u said,
"hoping that newer technology would be better then the earlier,
or at least equal..".

well, can't tell if everybody are mistaken, if even IPS's isn't worth it, TN's definitely do not, at least the cheaper ones.
maybe OLED's or SED's will solve this issues?

anyway, might try a better one after sending back this one, or else, will try to find a nice 22" CRT.

regarding the luminance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminance),

It describes the amount of light that passes through or is emitted from a particular area

basically, the amount of light emitted from this specific screen, even when totally zeroing it's brightness.
it could be that other words are used to describe this phenomenon, i.e "glow"..

worth mentioning FED's,
laser display:
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/video?id=7013481
(15 sep 09).

[onex]

just some point to note after going over this thread again,

Instead what we're seeing is a trend of manufacturers in times of recession dropping SPVA and IPS models and kicking out mass quantities of cheap TNs touting super high contrast ratios which is just gimmickry plain and simple. They're basically taking advantage of the fact that many consumers don't really know that much about LCD panels, whom are lulled into thinking you can buy them on spec alone and be happy.

It doesn't take much reading though to find info on color accuracy tradeoffs with high DCR presets, among many other gimmicks. Just the fact that most gamers still think ultra low response times even show a detectable difference when in fact the average LCD refreshes at 60Hz, which takes 8ms itself, is an indication how easy it is for manufacturers to get away with their BS.
that is shining bright.


the LP2475w is one of the most recommended monitors available at the moment.

havn't had the "atmosphere" to go over too many sites and reviews' yet the LP2475W (and the U2410 from DELL) are indeed two displays that are literally blinking, they seem to be very much recommended probably (even could be) everywhere.

it is strange seeing people saying negative responses regarding them, maybe the mainstream market for middle range screens are happy with buying them, unaware at flaws more advanced users are having or aware with them.

the display market is very much confusing and one has to research it intensely to find a decent screen (if there is any (while can't say currently there isn't..)), most users will happily use a low end monitor while even more, will use a middle-range monitor not fit for anyone who is looking for top or at least that higher quality.

it is very hard to understand the technology when most users aren't viewing it from a professional POV, it can get very complexed to find a good LCD when u'r not viewing it u'rself at u'r system and native environment and has the privilege of comparing it to other options in the market especially when the second-hand market isn't that active (at least here), sites reviews could be based upon author perspective which could be not accurate and misleading as well.


having read some good reviews from highly-regarded sites, it's easy to see why someone would buy it even without seeing it in-person
that is puts exactly the feeling u get!

sorry if wrote some unprofessional remarks, again, it is very hard seeing every point when being novice to these things, maybe in 'displays' the most, quality is very much hard to perceive and we can all probably see it's out come at it's the best (sorry for you Skakruk) while following this thread..

[twwen2]

I bought a refurbished 2475w through the HP Renew program as an upgrade from my Dell 2007WFP. I set it up on Friday and wasn't overly impressed. As i understand it, the 2475w uses an S-IPS, which is supposed to be an upgrade (thus superior) of the original IPS panels as used in the 2007WFP. But once set up and turned on, it seems the technology has gone backwards.

Now it could just be my particular screen, but i immediately noticed the "IPS glow" which i've been hearing about. My Dell never had it, but the HP definately has a blue-ish glow to it. It's the sort of thing one could eventually get used to, but un-nerving all the same. The second issue is the pink tinting. The right 1/3 of the screen has a distinct pink tint to it. It's not bad when gaming or watching movies, but very distracting when browsing the net or word processing (anything with a white background). Once again, i've heard this issue is common with IPS technology, and especially with this particular panel (also used in the Dell U2410). It's just annoying that i have to deal with it.

Lastly there's a group of stuck dark pixels at the top-left of the screen. It's not in a bad spot, but falls right on a white tab when using Chrome. Edit: HP do have a pixel policy >> http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?cc=uk&docname=c00288895&dlc=en&lc=en&jumpid=reg_R1002_UKEN


So, in conclusion, i'm not overly impressed. In fact, based on the (very favourable) reviews i read online, i'm quite dissapointed. Am i expecting too much? It just doesn't sit well that my 5 year-old Dell is a better monitor. I guess its back to HP for this screen! I'll see what the replacement is like. If it's ok but not great i might sell it and wait for something better. I wouldn't get the Dell U2410, as it uses the same LG panel and will potentially have all the same issues and characteristics. Maybe something from NEC? Or the Dell 2408W that is currently being run out at bargain prices...

[onex]

he,
skakruk has pointed out the NEC EA231WMi,

Bear in mind, however, that the EA231WMi has the tinting issue, as well as the IPS glow (both of which I mentioned in the review). The glow is an IPS flaw, and you can't avoid it unless you purchase another panel type.

you might run into the same issues there, and the U2410 is known to have some pink tinting coming along with it,
maybe wait for LED's or whatever Y 2010 will bring :).

goodluck.

[[XC] Oj101]

Subscribed because I leave work in ten minutes and would like to read this :)

[twwen2]

you might run into the same issues there, and the U2410 is known to have some pink tinting coming along with it,


As i understand it, the U2410 uses the same (or a revision of the) panel as the 2475w.

And IPS glow, while unique to IPS panels can be alleviated using a polariser. Unfortunately only the NEC monitors use them (in the consumer market anyway), and only on previous models. Must be a cost issue. :(

[twwen2]

I've just passed 230 hours on mine and can confirm that it is definitely much better now than when it was brand-new.

Before, the green/pink tinting met pretty much in the middle of the screen, but now after 200+ hours on it, only the left-most 1/4 of the screen is slightly green and the right-most 1/4 is slightly pink. I'm hoping this continues to get better over time.

Hmm, mine has only done 33hrs. I'm not sure i want to wait another 200hrs to see if it'll go away, i think i'll try my luck with a replacement.

[onex]

And IPS glow, while unique to IPS panels can be alleviated using a polariser. Unfortunately only the NEC monitors use them (in the consumer market anyway), and only on previous models. Must be a cost issue.
yeah, the OP has noted it through the first post,
there's the NEC 2490WUXi, which equals currently ~1,000$ at e-bay and ~600 pounds at UK stores or ~850 US.

basically there seem to be indeed 2 models, 740-~900$ (http://www4.dealtime.com/xPO-NEC-NEC-24in-MultiSync-LCD2490WUXI2-LCD-Display) 24" 2490WUXi2-BK and the 25.5" 2690WUXi from earlier revisions, should be starting at 2007,
if u can find any...
it should be worthy :).

there's a nice thread (http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1033819378&postcount=16) at HF showing the difference w&w/o the panel, and indeed, it seems quite awful without it :hm:.

[twwen2]

Well well.

After working out who/how to contact HP, i submitted a support case. Within half a day they responded saying they'd ship a replacement, no questions asked. I had it the next day, and all i had to do was put the old one in the box and call the courier to come and get it, reply paid! How's that for customer service aye?

Oh, and the replacement is much better. No more green/pink tint, no bad pixels. Overall it's a bit red/warm but that can be sorted out with calibration i guess. Now to find someone with a colorimeter...

[onex]

hrrm,
some novice misconceptions :shrug:.

[onex]

Overall it's a bit red/warm but that can be sorted out with calibration i guess
if it ain't wrong, that should be a part of the IPS panel...
A-TW polarizer, isn't supposed to fix this btw, if understood correctly,
the A-TW pol. is supposed to fix a glow visible on IPS's while viewing the screen at non perpendicular angles..

[[XC] Oj101]

Now if only we could get a nice graphical display calibration report like we see in Windows utilities...

Please elaborate on that?