tim ftw??

[elk0019]

ok i've already gone through a lot of reviews on the net but can't find a clear winner..

i am definitely going to lap the cpu and try every tweak that can get me as little as half a c° of improvement so having read martin's review of coolaboratory liquid pro vs as5 i was wondering if somebody else has it in their rigs and if it has as much as 3 degrees of improvement in idle and 4 in load over the as5 how come i only see as5 in peoples' rigs??

[Silverhawk]

Indigo Extreme FTW

[Mabyboi]

I use mx-2. but i hear mx-3 is quite good aswell, a few c improvement.

[Sadasius]

Use MX-2 here.

[.:R32]

Indigo Extreme FTW

x2. Read the review by Skinee, it's the best and can probably never be improved upon.

[elk0019]

ty for the input all

@.:r32 skinnee's review says "Without a doubt, Indigo Xtreme is the performance winner here. "

so how come mx-2 gets more votes?

[Waterlogged]

Just make sure you don't lap that HK, they don't like it when you lap them. (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=221366)

[elk0019]

Just make sure you don't lap that HK, they don't like it when you lap them. (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=221366)

:shocked: ...you sir, just saved my heatkiller :toast:

[Silverhawk]

ty for the input all

@.:r32 skinnee's review says "Without a doubt, Indigo Xtreme is the performance winner here. "

so how come mx-2 gets more votes?
Perhaps its what they are used to, or that the indigo extreme is rather expensive, 20 bucks and you only get 2 applications. Its not a big deal if you don't swap your cooler often. Performance wise, it can't be beat.

Otherwise you could look into the shin etsu X23, which comes in second to the indigo extreme.

[elk0019]

it would seem that in order to achieve the degrees of performance the indigo has over the other pastes you would have to raise the temp of the cpu to 90° so that the tim would reach the melting point and squeeze out every last bit of air that got stuck in between it and the wb... so it also involves some danger in trying to apply it correctly..

and if i try it with my wc setup the tubes would probably melt...

[Silverhawk]

it would seem that in order to achieve the degrees of performance the indigo has over the other pastes you would have to raise the temp of the cpu to 90° so that the tim would reach the melting point and squeeze out every last bit of air that got stuck in between it and the wb... so it also involves some danger in trying to apply it correctly..

and if i try it with my wc setup the tubes would probably melt...

Your tubes will be fine, the water will get hot, but not as hot as the CPU. The CPU temp is hot because there is little to no contact with the waterblock, since the TIM has not flowed to cover the gaps. Once the reflow is done, the heat from your CPU will transfer to the waterblock, and your CPU will cool down a bit before going back up again. At this point the reflow is complete and you can turn on the pump again.

I've had an accident doing this, didn't clamp down the tube, water heated up whick led to the tube being heated up and got loose and popped off the barb. The water is hot, but not anywhere near the temperature of the cpu.

So you don't have to worry about the tube melting :) Just make sure you clamp it down.

[Zigosity]

Indigo Extreme FTW

I'm running this too, it's good. A friend of mine had his rupture and leak all over his noctua cooler though, so... be careful. After like 2 months of using it too, he just lost his OC one day, then a few days later his temps went nuts.

[elk0019]

wow ty for the help mate it sounds a bit scary lol

but i am tempted to get the extra degrees so i'll probably take a shot at it

to bad sidewinder doesn't have it, i'm getting the last parts of the loop from there and it would have been nice to just throw it in and be done with it

ps: this (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=236367) thread seems very usefull

[Main]

I just stopped my pumps and went into bios and started the pumps when temperature passed 95 degrees C and stopped pumps again when temperature dropped to 90 degrees C. I did this for an whole hour :D

Another TIM that is very good is CooLaboratory Liquid Pro - CooLaboratory Metal Pad shall also be good says a lot of people.

I merely got a degree lower temperature with Indigo vs. Liquid Pro, I even did mount Indigo on the CPU two times - and ended up with exact the same temperature both times.

So if Metal Pad is better than Liquid Pro - as some people say - it can mean that Metal Pad is as good as Indigo Extreme - maybe even better. :shrug:

[WeeMaan]

Just make sure you don't lap that HK, they don't like it when you lap them. (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=221366)

I lapped my heatkiller and noticed 1-2 degree celsius better temps.
Ofcourse I removed the bottom first so it would still have some bow.

[elk0019]

I lapped my heatkiller and noticed 1-2 degree celsius better temps.
Ofcourse I removed the bottom first so it would still have some bow.

i do find it a bit odd that lapping it results in worse performance :\

[Waterlogged]

I lapped my heatkiller and noticed 1-2 degree celsius better temps.
Ofcourse I removed the bottom first so it would still have some bow.

You were probably luckier with the mount than prior to lapping. From what I hear, those HK mounting mechanism's aren't as good as they could be. Going higher than 800 grit has pretty much been proven to be nothing but a waste of time and energy as it does nothing for improving thermal transfer.


i do find it a bit odd that lapping it results in worse performance :\

If a block is designed to take advantage of a bow and you remove it, it will most certainly perform worse.

[WeeMaan]

You were probably luckier with the mount than prior to lapping. From what I hear, those HK mounting mechanism's aren't as good as they could be. Going higher than 800 grit has pretty much been proven to be nothing but a waste of time and energy as it does nothing for improving thermal transfer.



If a block is designed to take advantage of a bow and you remove it, it will most certainly perform worse.

I have done several mounts before and after the lapping, so I think we can take that out of the ekvation.
Yes, higher than 800 has never given me any real advantager either.
And about the bow, just because you lapp the heatkiller doesn't mean you remove the bow.? (If you remove the base prior to lapping)

Edit: Alltough I agree that 1-2 degrees is still in the margin of error.

[Waterlogged]

I have done several mounts before and after the lapping, so I think we can take that out of the ekvation.
Yes, higher than 800 has never given me any real advantager either.
And about the bow, just because you lapp the heatkiller doesn't mean you remove the bow.? (If you remove the base prior to lapping)

True, but isn't it almost a mirror finish to start with?. . .so why even bother lapping it?

[Boulard83]

My Apogee GT was concave ... and not Bowed. So lapping helped, but LOTS of block are Bowed .. NO LAP !

My GTZ is awesome out of the BOX.


For the paste : I uxe MX-3 and i REALLY love this paste.

[WeeMaan]

True, but isn't it almost a mirror finish to start with?. . .so why even bother lapping it?

I wouldn't say mirror finnish, more like avarage looking. Perhaps I got a bad "batch".
And I actually lapped it first just to remove a ugly mark the TIM had left on it, the temperature difference was just a bonus. :)

Before
http://www.pici.se/pictures/medium/raYlrHzKU.jpg

After
http://forumbilder.se/images/6921200961403d070.jpg

[Main]

Shall we agree that the perfect fit between a cooler and the cpu would be two perfect flat and 100% clean surfaces with no grooves at all in them ?
Yes we do agree :) - but such surfaces is impossible to get.

So what we do to deal with grooves and surfaces that ain't perfect flat is to use tim - the tim fills the grooves - pressing out the air and when pressed together the tim compensates for an uneven surface.

Some tims (eg. ShinEtsu, AS5) are very thick - they really have a hard time getting down into the smaller grooves, I suspect that air very often can get trapped in small grooves under the tim. It is a well known fact that the thicker tims very often benefits from "burn in" aka. the Indigo Xtreme method.

Then using such thick tims on lapped surfaces can probably give worse results since a lapped surface don't have as deep grooves as before the lapping. Trapped air will also have a much harder time seeping out from a finer surface - especially with thick tims.
So my bet are - a lapped an flat surface needs a thinner tim than a coarse uneven surface.

I always rub tim - using force and in all directions with my finger and using a thick plasticbag - onto the cooler and CPU surfaces, I wipe off excess tim from the cooler and CPU surface with lint free paper after this before I proceed adding tim and mounting.

I have seen a lot of questionable lapping - a typical fault is that the surface is bent downwards on all four edges. It is near impossible to get a perfect flat surface using emerypaper alone. You will need a lapping plate (http://glennview.com/jpgs/tools/lap/big_1.jpg) and knowledge on how to lap. Average Joe don't know how to lap - he will always tilt the cooler when he is lapping.
I have even seen people using coppercleaner on their coolers after lapping - they filled the grooves with coppercleaner :shakes:

I have personally never seen temperatures raising after lapping - but I have seen temperature dropped :)

just my ten cents :)

[WaterFlex]

Shin-Etsu and MX3 are the best tim.

[zeropluszero]

i use shin-etsu and MX3 - both are good.

[RoadconeTuning]

i've got a pile of AS5 so i've been using it... im pretty sure i suck at mounting so i doubt i'd notice the difference...

its kinda funny thinking that i've been putting AS5 on everything from my watercooled Q6600 to the AthlonXP system i fixed last month lol.

[jbartlett323]

AS5 is a great performer for everyday use. I think most people use it because its fairly inexpensive anymore but more because everyone, and i mean everyone, knows what Arctic Silver is. MX-2 is much better, I saw a 3 degree difference when i switched, so thats really what i recommend. However I am currently running Shin-etsu I got from Dell (replaced a proc under warrenty thats what they sent me) and i gotta say: Spreading it is impossible but it sure does make for really nice temps!

[exodusprime1337]

are there any local places you can go buy greases like shin-etsu and the like, all i can find around here is as5(rhode island), i'm gonna order some new tim just don't know what yet.

[exodusprime1337]

i was also reading a review or 2 on the thermalright chill factor grease that comes with every thermalright cooler, i've got like 20 tubes of it, and it apparently has nice performance, i might try it out, i've go everything almost but the two tims i want to try with is ocz freeze and shin etsu grease... damn :(

[NaeKuh]

ty for the input all

@.:r32 skinnee's review says "Without a doubt, Indigo Xtreme is the performance winner here. "

so how come mx-2 gets more votes?

cuz its cheap, does a good job, and you get the most consistant mounts with it.

We tend to buy the MX-2 in the large 30g tube, and that usually lasts us almost forever.

When it boils down to it, there almost the same.
You will get more variation because of mounting then using different tim.

[Antioch]

Shin Etsu.

[Main]

ARE BEST... oh well...

[Jamesrt2004]

i was also reading a review or 2 on the thermalright chill factor grease that comes with every thermalright cooler, i've got like 20 tubes of it, and it apparently has nice performance, i might try it out, i've go everything almost but the two tims i want to try with is ocz freeze and shin etsu grease... damn :(

the first stuff was poo

chill factor 2 is good though, although i use mx3 :) :up:

[exodusprime1337]

the first stuff was poo

chill factor 2 is good though, although i use mx3 :) :up:

nice i might give it a go, temps are already pretty good with my as5, although i'm only still using it because i have so much(damn you radio shack clearance sale), i'm considering removing my res putting in a t line and lapping my fuzion v2... maybe i'll try the chill factor then.