Swiftech unveils MCR Drive Heat Exchangers

[gabe]

We are proud to introduce a totally new concept in the world of liquid cooling components: the patent pending MCR Drive™series of heat exchangers.

Built around the ubiquitous MCP350 pump and MCR QP radiators, the MCR Drive™ heat exchanger combines radiator, pump and reservoir into a single compact unit that simplifies installation, improves performance and reliability by shortening the flow path and reducing the number of connections, and provides a future-proof solution to users.

http://www.swiftnets.com/assets/images/products/MCR-DRIVE/MCRDRIVE%20SERIESX800.jpg

http://www.swiftnets.com/assets/images/products/MCR-DRIVE/MCR220%20DRIVE-EXPLODED.jpg

Product introduction (http://www.swiftnets.com/products/mcr-drive-introduction.html)

[WhiteFireDragon]

nice concept and great product, although i'm a little sketchy to buy another swiftech product

[DarthBeavis]

Swiftech makes fine products. Thanks for focusing on innovation Gabe! Keep them coming!

[biggatomic]

damn wish i knew these were coming out before i just brought 2 stacks. :(

[Dude_Person]

This looks handy for a compact build. Good stuff. :up:


nice concept and great product, although i'm a little sketchy to buy another swiftech product

Why's that? Never been anything but please with swiftech goods myself.

[BlueAqua]

Looks like a great idea and an easy way to get into watercooling. Any time frame on a release date?

[gabe]

Looks like a great idea and an easy way to get into watercooling. Any time frame on a release date?

We are shipping to the channels now. This will be available on the street next week.

I forgot to add that two of these could be installed in series for a dual rad dual pump system: in a cosmos s for example, you could have the MCR220 Drive in front bolted to the hard drive cage, and the MCR320 Drive installed up top :yepp:

[Hondacity]

gabe

whats the diameter of the pump inlet?

[gabe]

gabe

whats the diameter of the pump inlet?

Both inlet and outlet are G1/4 compatible. The unit accepts 1/2" and 3/8" barbs.

[NaeKuh]

you could have the MCR220 Drive in front bolted to the hard drive cage, and the MCR320 Drive installed up top :yepp:

NICE!

i think this is what u told me on PMS.

Gabe quick question... what the range of mounts we can use on this?

I mean if we had it vertical i see no problems, but if you had it horizontal, wouldn't you run into bleeding issues?

Have you tried the system sideways?

[zalbard]

Very interesting concept, indeed.
Going to need more pics, though, hope someone is going to buy these shortly. :) Or test!

[Petra]

Nice--you got this one to market pretty fast. Good job :up:

[ChielScape]

whats next? MCRES Drive? and then? tubing drive? MCP drive*?

*yo dawg, i heard you like pumps.

seriously gabe, i like how you try to think outside of the box but...

[Hondacity]

Both inlet and outlet are G1/4 compatible. The unit accepts 1/2" and 3/8" barbs.

gabe

pump inlet hole...whats the id?


http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c5/hondacity25/hole.jpg


thanks

[Boulard83]

Great !

NIce looking compact solution.

[Sadasius]

Geez that is awesome stuff. Great for a quick setup for sure. Damn all the innovation lately is making me drool with all the possibilities.

[StAndrew]

Such a simple idea :clap:. To echo an above request, what are the limitations in regard to the orientation?

[gabe]

NICE!

i think this is what u told me on PMS.

Gabe quick question... what the range of mounts we can use on this?

I mean if we had it vertical i see no problems, but if you had it horizontal, wouldn't you run into bleeding issues?

Have you tried the system sideways?

please read: http://www.swiftnets.com/products/installation_guide_MCR%20DRIVE-english.pdf


gabe

pump inlet hole...whats the id?



http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c5/hondacity25/hole.jpg


thanks

= current MCP350's = 7mm

[StAndrew]

Just to clarify, dose it come with the pump or is that sold separately?

[Devil_Dog]

What's the MSRP for these?

[zanzabar]

dose this use the same weak design as the stock 35x or dose it have the improvements of the aftermarket tops

[Dude_Person]

Just to clarify, dose it come with the pump or is that sold separately?

There are two versions of each.

MCR220-DRIVE-B
MCR220-DRIVE
MCR320-DRIVE-B
MCR320-DRIVE

The "-B" means without pump.

[Sadasius]

There are two versions of each.

MCR220-DRIVE-B
MCR220-DRIVE
MCR320-DRIVE-B
MCR320-DRIVE

The "-B" means without pump.

Why thank you..ummm Dude Person with interesting moustache! :up:

[jcool]

This would fit perfectly into a LianLi V351 :D

[Vapor]

I love it...further propagating the "two-piece" form factor from the H20-x20 Compact, just making it more flexible! Res/rad/pump-all-in-one + any block = only two pieces of tubing necessary + 1 piece of tubing for each additional block.

dose this use the same weak design as the stock 35x or dose it have the improvements of the aftermarket tops It seems to have a top inlet, which is the biggest single improvement you can make, AFAIK.

[Dude_Person]

To sum up questions about orientation. The lower the pump is, the better.

Upright = good
Upside down = bad
Side with pump at top = bad
Side with pump at bottom = acceptable (partially functional res)
Flat with pump hanging down (Barbs pointing up) = acceptable (non-functional res)
Flat with pump hanging up (Barbs pointing down) = bad

[GregSG]

MCR220-DRIVE-B Dual 120mm heat exchanger (bare, without pump), Black, including 1/2" & 3/8" fittings, and mounting screws $134.95
MCR220-DRIVE Dual 120mm heat exchanger with integrated pump, Black, including 1/2" & 3/8" fittings, and mounting screws $196.95
MCR320-DRIVE-B Triple 120mm heat exchanger (bare, without pump), Black, including 1/2" & 3/8" fittings, and mounting screws $147.95
MCR220-DRIVE Triple 120mm heat exchanger with integrated pump, Black, including 1/2" & 3/8" fittings, and mounting screws $209.95


:)

Review?

[Dude_Person]

Sorry, Double post

[Sadasius]

You know if it came with the bolt on box as well then it will be as easy as 1-2-3. Bolt on the back upright, slap a block on something and run 2 hoses. Fill and bleed...DONE!!!:yepp:

[dingdong555]

Great product gabe! This will make things so simple!

[gabe]

Just to clarify, dose it come with the pump or is that sold separately?

both


What's the MSRP for these?

Part # Description MSRP
MCR220-DRIVE-B Dual 120mm heat exchanger (bare, without pump), Black, including 1/2" & 3/8" fittings, and mounting screws $134.95

MCR220-DRIVE Dual 120mm heat exchanger with integrated pump, Black, including 1/2" & 3/8" fittings, and mounting screws $196.95

MCR320-DRIVE-B Triple 120mm heat exchanger (bare, without pump), Black, including 1/2" & 3/8" fittings, and mounting screws $147.95

MCR320-DRIVE Triple 120mm heat exchanger with integrated pump, Black, including 1/2" & 3/8" fittings, and mounting screws $209.95



dose this use the same weak design as the stock 35x or dose it have the improvements of the aftermarket tops

Improvements come from:
- considerably shortened and simplified flow path compared to a traditional 4-device loop (think of all the curves, elbows, tubing going from one device to another, etc..)
- 1/2 the number of fittings (4 instead of 8 in a CPU loop) - each fitting induces a measurable pressure drop.
- native ability to run the pump in 1/2" versus 3/8"


You know if it came with the bolt on box as well then it will be as easy as 1-2-3. Bolt on the back upright, slap a block on something and run 2 hoses. Fill and bleed...DONE!!!:yepp:

this will be an upcoming kit. Stephen literally took less than 10 minutes to assemble the entire kit shown here:

http://www.swiftnets.com/assets/images/products/MCR-DRIVE/MCR220%20DRIVE%20RADBOX%20INSTALLX800.jpg

[sirheck]

It should be VERY easy and quick to bleed.

[Sgt.McRuff]

Gabe, your website, when clicking on liquid cooling, cant see res section...

Also, your killing me, I just bought some rads, now I need more?!

[Erdrick1980]

all i can say is.. :shocked::shocked::eek::eek::up::yepp::):clap: please don't let it be out of stock when i get it next week.. :rolleyes::(

[CmB]

hmmmm, watercooling has tempted for a long time. This product is the one that will tip the balance, finally :-)

And once stock runs out initailly be sure to make more for me, lool ;)

[CedricFP]

Can the radiators be turned on their side so that the pump outlet is facing downward?

Also, are those G1/4 or 3/8 holes for filling the reservoirs?

This looks like a great product, gabe. Swiftech have never let me down before. In fact, I think that most people get into water cooling via one of the swiftech kits. I still remember mine was with the original Apogee GT as well as a D5 and MCRes + MCR220. Great stuff.

[sirheck]

Mounting horizontally??
Hmm, I have mounted the QP res rads horizontally.
Had to tilt the case a little to completly fill it to
get all of the air out and it works fine, has been
for over a year.

Not sure about this new set up though.:shrug:
Edit; Probably not. With half of the impeller above the
main water line i forsee it sucking some air.

[Tetrafluorometh]

Flat with pump hanging up (Barbs pointing down) = bad

Thats a problem for a lot of us then! What if we had the case at a slight angle 5mm rasied on the back leaning forwards. It's enough not to notice but enough to allow air to flow up to the bleed surly?

Other idea is we add a barb and some hose with a fill port to the rads own fill port and with the system vertical so bleed is at the higest point we fill till the system has no air at all!

Gabe this fits my bill perfectly due to a complet and utter lack of space and any forward thinkng on my behalf. Just the pump issue all that is holding me back as bottom mount or side aint an option.

How soon till these are in the UK?

Shame it has to be used with 25mm thick fan as a min!

Edit: Oh yeah and is there a plan for a single sized version?

[gabe]

Can the radiators be turned on their side so that the pump outlet is facing downward?

Also, are those G1/4 or 3/8 holes for filling the reservoirs?

This looks like a great product, gabe. Swiftech have never let me down before. In fact, I think that most people get into water cooling via one of the swiftech kits. I still remember mine was with the original Apogee GT as well as a D5 and MCRes + MCR220. Great stuff.

Please guys, read the link below; it explains everything: horizontal, vertical, upside down, on the side, doggy style (:rofl:), etc..: http://www.swiftnets.com/PRODUCTS/installation_guide_MCR%20DRIVE-english.pdf ... and make sure to read page 2 all the way to the end (for advanced/extreme users)

once you are done reading, let's discuss further.

there is also an illustration on the site:

http://www.swiftnets.com/assets/images/products/MCR-DRIVE/MCR%20DRIVE%20ORIENTATIONS%20X%20800.jpg

[gabe]

Shame it has to be used with 25mm thick fan as a min!



Please clarify

[Tetrafluorometh]

Please clarify

http://www.swiftnets.com/assets/images/products/MCR-DRIVE/mcr320%20drive%20dimensionsX800.jpg

23mm between the rad to the end of the pump. 20mm Yate Loon would not fit there. So thus being 25mm only


Please guys, read the link below; it explains everything: horizontal, vertical, upside down, on the side, doggy style (:rofl:), etc..: http://www.swiftnets.com/PRODUCTS/installation_guide_MCR%20DRIVE-english.pdf ... and make sure to read page 2 all the way to the end (for advanced/extreme users)

once you are done reading, let's discuss further.

I see what you have done there but for my aplication of this i have no room at all. I will be able to check fully in the morning but im pretty sure unless i can use 20mm fans it's a no go on the side. Roof is the only way!

Fact what if we added our own T line res into the system and bled the system till air free?

[gabe]

http://www.swiftnets.com/assets/images/products/MCR-DRIVE/mcr320%20drive%20dimensionsX800.jpg

23mm between the rad to the end of the pump. 20mm Yate Loon would not fit there. So thus being 25mm only



I see what you have done there but for my aplication of this i have no room at all. I will be able to check fully in the morning but im pretty sure unless i can use 20mm fans it's a no go on the side. Roof is the only way!

Fact what if we added our own T line res into the system and bled the system till air free?

if I understand your configuration, it looks like on the side in lower case compartment with 20mm fans would work; you would need an auxiliary res located higher than the rad for 100% safety (case #4) - use corner brackets to attach rad to bottom of case.

[Tetrafluorometh]

if I understand your configuration, it looks like on the side in lower case compartment with 20mm fans would work; you would need an auxiliary res located higher than the rad for 100% safety (case #4) - use corner brackets to attach rad to bottom of case.

Roof moun or side mount only, nothing else nothing less. I need to check if have the side space for certan with the item thats in place which i will do in the morning.

Have no option for a res higher. I will try for sid but i'd prefer roof mounter personly.

When are they onsale as i can't see them in your store and the UK will be forever in doing anything

[Boogerlad]

Does this bleed faster than the mcres?

[gabe]

Roof moun or side mount only, nothing else nothing less. I need to check if have the side space for certan with the item thats in place which i will do in the morning.

Have no option for a res higher. I will try for sid but i'd prefer roof mounter personly.

When are they onsale as i can't see them in your store and the UK will be forever in doing anything

roof install is only possible with two drive units in the chassis, which is reserved for extreme apps. Looks like side is your only option.

UK reselers should have the units available for purchase from master distributor in a couple of weeks.

[sirheck]

Does this bleed faster than the mcres?

Yeah it should be quick.

[gabe]

Does this bleed faster than the mcres?

please allow me a corny joke..

have you ever seen a horse urinate?

well, that's how it bleeds :ROTF:

Bad joke aside, I am referring here to the default orientation. the pump literally has a built-in reservoir attached above it, so it primes and bleeds instantaneously.

[Tetrafluorometh]

roof install is only possible with two drive units in the chassis, which is reserved for extreme apps. Looks like side is your only option.

UK reselers should have the units available for purchase from master distributor in a couple of weeks.

Umm 2 pumps is going to cost and there is not much in the loop at all to make sense of it! A 120 would be ideal as that can be vertical!

End of Jan 2010 then

What about if the unit was at an angle then, say it was slopping via the bleed side being raised 5mm up.

[Spawn-Inc]

wow, wicked idea gabe!

as far as mounting it could be mounted any way you want (accept upside down for the sake of the pump) you will just have to have the res fill port at the top.

[Rubycon]

Looks like the display adapter would be blocked. Those of us using dual link DVI cables with large ferrites would never be able to connect to the card with that hanging off the back.

How strong is the pump?

Say could someone mount the radiator on the ceiling above a ceiling fan and run the across and down the wall to their PC under the desk? :D

[Boulard83]

Fo any WC newbies, this RAD is awesome. You just need a Block, 2 hose ... and here you go !

[nipper575]

I agree that this will be great as part of a kit, very simple to install. As for those of use that need to have radiators orientated in all kinds of interesting ways, it may not be of much use but it's nice to have such products on the market never the less.

I have a friend who has just splurged on his first serious PC and wanted to water cool it from the get go after seeing mine even though I was trying to convince him not to do it straight away as water cooling can be dangerous to newcomers. He ended up buying one of the H20-220 Apex Ultima kits as it was on sale and cheaper than buying the same parts separately (I was at least able to steer him away from thermaltake and the H50). For those types of buyers like my friend who are new to water cooling and frankly, probably won't last that long in the hobby (they just do it for the hell of it), this new rad/pump/res combo mated with an XT would be fantastic to replace the H20-220 kit. Far less error to be made imo, less barbs to worry about leaking...

[voigts]

Just based off of cost alone I don't think that this setup really is very practical for those of us who already watercool (think 3 MCR320s for one triple MCR drive), but for the watercooling newcomer who is looking for something easy and quick this is the best idea to come out in a long time. It would really take the complexity out of putting in a watercooling setup for a CPU.

[prava]

Wow, awesome idea.
Gabe, could you please give us the measurements of the whole thing? I checked on your .pdf but couldn't find'em...

[gabe]

I agree that this will be great as part of a kit, very simple to install. As for those of use that need to have radiators orientated in all kinds of interesting ways, it may not be of much use but it's nice to have such products on the market never the less.


I tend to disagree. Extreme users like XS members will find dozens of applications for this, in basically any orientation they wish. The fact that we do not endorse many orientations reflects our concern for the casual users.

When we say in our installation guide "there is a risk that.bla bla..", it means that under certain circumstances, air could accumulate in the pump and cause it to stall. Extreme/advanced users understand this, and can take the appropriate precautions.

I do see great potential for this among extreme users. It performs very well, and solves plenty of space issues. Imagine two MCR320 Drives in your case for example!

[Boulard83]

I agree with gabe, but not 100% ... Extrem user want ... Extrem parts ! Not all in one parts ;)

[WrigleyVillain]

Fo any WC newbies, this RAD is awesome. You just need a Block, 2 hose ... and here you go !

Yep. Or even for 'simpler' builds you want to have to work on and maintain less like the wife or gf's rig :) (Well not in Shazza's case :D)

[gabe]

Just based off of cost alone I don't think that this setup really is very practical for those of us who already watercool (think 3 MCR320s for one triple MCR drive), but for the watercooling newcomer who is looking for something easy and quick this is the best idea to come out in a long time. It would really take the complexity out of putting in a watercooling setup for a CPU.

I believe you are thinking 3 MCR320 on street price sale, versus MCR320 Drive MSRP. This is not factoring in the fact that street prices will be suject to the same competition than all the other products.

I think that once the dust settles, XS users will end up saving money on this setup as opposed to other setups, and gain in simplicity, reliability and ultimately in performance. Think of the flow rate improvements alone compared to all the elbows that some guys have to use to route their tubing..

[gabe]

I agree with gabe, but not 100% ... Extrem user want ... Extrem parts ! Not all in one parts ;)

Yes, I was going to add this to my last comments, but I chose not to, because I do not want to come accross as criticizing what I personnally do not agree with ;) After all, there is room for everything in this world.

[nipper575]

Well obviously you would have a better idea than me, that previous post is just my assumption/prediction.

Just speaking from my own (limited) experience, I don't think I would find a way to use this myself easily unless mounting it on the back of my tower. Haveing separate water cooling components mounted internally allow you to utilise the space available to you in a more effective way imo. For example, the way my current MCR220 is mounted, to make enough room for the extra height of having a pump and reservoir installed on the same size rad, I would most likely loose another 2 x 5.25" bays which would render my PC useless to me. Not to mention that the MCR320 I have mounted internally on the roof would not physically fit at all if it had a res and pump mounted to it. Sure it looks more cluttered but it actually allows me to physically fit both rads internally as I am able to "split" the components and place them in tight areas.

I think this is a great product and I never meant to sound like I was rubbishing it or anything. Like I said, it's great to have such options available to us.

[Spawn-Inc]

i didn't see it in the pdf or website, what is the housing made of? looks like either all brass or brass port and plastic top?

[gabe]

I think this is a great product and I never meant to sound like I was rubbishing it or anything. Like I said, it's great to have such options available to us.

I didn't take it like this at all. Your comments just gave me an opportunity to express more of my opinions on the subject matter. Sorry if the engineer is being superceded by a salesman right now, it's the excitement of the moment.. it'will pass :cool:

[gabe]

i didn't see it in the pdf or website, what is the housing made of? looks like either all brass or brass port and plastic top?

oops I need to clarify this. Thanks! Yes the pump housing is brass.

[nipper575]

haha, no worries.

[jollyjoker]

Looks like a great idea.

[Blacky]

good concept :) but position wise limited though :(

[gabe]

Gabe,

I REALLY like your buisness/product/engineering statement. I think this product is great.

Now in my system I've hole sawed out the top of my case for my radiator (yes it's a swiftech)

For this setup, is it possible for you to make an functional reservoir?

If so, I'd buy a tripple radiator setup and mount that B!tch up in my case and get rid of the thermaltake big water cluttering my case up!

http://i842.photobucket.com/albums/zz350/MrMorello/DIY%20CASE%20RADIATOR%20AND%20FANS/IMAG0013.jpg

It is possible and will work fine with an auxiliary reservoir. But this res would necessarily be below the rad. So there is a serious risk if you move or shake your case, or if the coolant level is so low that air goes into the pump. That's why we can't officially support or recommend it.

[Kibbler]

Really clever design, the "10-minute setup" photo really nails it. This is pretty much fool-proof watercooling that can be installed as quickly as any HSF. Great out of the box thinking!

Sure many of us are curious about the performance figures. With this design the pump's heat will transfer directly to the radiator, whereas in a separate setup pumps radiate some heat into the air. Then again flow is supposed to improve. At any rate I'm looking forward to the performance comparison between this and a separate DDC + pump.

[Silverhawk]

I'm wondering why the reservoir wasn't extended to the same height as the pump? If that was done, then a horizontal mounting position with a functional reservoir would be possible right?

[dejanh]

What the funk? We need a custom rad top, I mean pump top, I mean rad top for this :confused: :p: It would be nice though if you could actually separate it.

Overall, good stuff...but I already have two MCR320s in my case :D

[Mech0z]

Looks really awesome! Hows the vibration absorbtion?

[Dude_Person]

I'm wondering why the reservoir wasn't extended to the same height as the pump? If that was done, then a horizontal mounting position with a functional reservoir would be possible right?

I believe the idea is that you put fans there to span that distance.

Edit: Sorry, just re-read your post. Ya, I thought of that too.

[mjtir]

I was hoping for a 140.x update of radiators line :( but i really like this concept.

Too bad i can't implement it in my ring.

[Nemon]

Wow! This is a great Idea. With this i can now build the perfect HTPC.

Very innovative product Gabe!

[Hondacity]

I believe you are thinking 3 MCR320 on street price sale, versus MCR320 Drive MSRP. This is not factoring in the fact that street prices will be suject to the same competition than all the other products.

I think that once the dust settles, XS users will end up saving money on this setup as opposed to other setups, and gain in simplicity, reliability and ultimately in performance. Think of the flow rate improvements alone compared to all the elbows that some guys have to use to route their tubing..

speaking of XS

i or some hardly fit your description...

and restriction:rolleyes: most of the kids think restriction. feeding kids koolaide..:shakes:

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

speaking of XS

i or some hardly fit your description...

and restriction:rolleyes: most of the kids think restriction. feeding kids koolaide..:shakes:

what is this koolaid you speak of? if you care to elaborate that is.

I was under the impression that koolaid is "a brand of flavored drink mix owned by the Kraft Foods Company." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koolaid) and yes I read the wiki, stop comparing a forum to a suicide cult.

[Jamesrt2004]

Shame it has to be used with 25mm thick fan as a min!

Edit: Oh yeah and is there a plan for a single sized version?

FAIL if you wana use it with anything less then 25mm anyways.. NO static pressure is baddd

and im sure 5mm wont make a diff.. stop hating on a innovative product and get a h50



@ Gabe... im guessing 355 is obv compatable with this =)

[jcool]

Gabe,

do you have some exact dimensions for us? Looked into the manual but didn't see any. Thanks :)

[Tomasis]

Gabe,

do you have some exact dimensions for us? Looked into the manual but didn't see any. Thanks :)

+1. im interested of mcr drive. very good concept and only 2 hoses.

[Factotum]

mcw220 with integrated reservoir = $59.95
________________________________
All in one = MCR220-DRIVE-B $134.95 (+125% :confused: :shakes::shakes::shakes:)

mcw220 with integrated reservoir = $59.95
MCP350™ $79.95
_____________________________
All in one = MCR220-DRIVE $196.95 (+40% :shakes:)

[prava]

I don't understand those of you who complain, seriously. This is not another rad nor another top...this is something we didn't have: pure innovation. It may not be for everybody, but this is how world is. Lets just say thanks to Gabe (and his team behind him) and encourage other manufacturers to follow his steps and bring new stuff to us. :up::up::up::up:

Gabe, measurements would be reallly handful.:cool:

[Factotum]

I don't understand those of you who complain, seriously. This is not another rad nor another top...this is something we didn't have: pure innovation.
true, but:
1. innovation have big price
2. integrated top don't change, its no good
may be for HTPC? - price HTPC and price WC for HTPC? :shakes:
for PC - nothing :shakes:

[Tomasis]

mcw220 with integrated reservoir = $59.95
________________________________
All in one = MCR220-DRIVE-B $134.95 (+125% :confused: :shakes::shakes::shakes:)

mcw220 with integrated reservoir = $59.95
MCP350™ $79.95
_____________________________
All in one = MCR220-DRIVE $196.95 (+40% :shakes:)

add costs for extra barbs, hose, reservoir, top for pump..

mcr drive is good for compact space as whole wc kit :up:

[gabe]

No not really! Needs a little more work.... I see room for a 2nd port on that existing resivor cavity where you could have a reservoir addon feature!!

I can envision a small rectangular cube that dosent extend past the radiator or above the fans

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/9687/resivor.th.jpg (http://img191.imageshack.us/i/resivor.jpg/)


Yes I agree. This is something we have been thinking about, but it is much more complicated than you think given the manufacturing process that we use for the plenums. I think that eventually we will find an economical and elegant solution.


I'm wondering why the reservoir wasn't extended to the same height as the pump? If that was done, then a horizontal mounting position with a functional reservoir would be possible right?

see above..



Looks really awesome! Hows the vibration absorbtion?

The pump housing is solidary from the radiator, so vibrations will travel thru. When mounted directly to a pannel, it is a good idea to decouple the assembly from the pannel by using silicon gaskets (between fan and pannel)for example. When used with the Radbox, the plastic housing acts as a damper.


Gabe,

do you have some exact dimensions for us? Looked into the manual but didn't see any. Thanks :)

http://www.swiftnets.com/assets/images/products/MCR-DRIVE/mcr220%20drive%20dimensionsX800.jpg

http://www.swiftnets.com/assets/images/products/MCR-DRIVE/mcr320%20drive%20dimensionsX800.jpg


mcw220 with integrated reservoir = $59.95
________________________________
All in one = MCR220-DRIVE-B $134.95 (+125% :confused: :shakes::shakes::shakes:)

mcw220 with integrated reservoir = $59.95
MCP350™ $79.95
_____________________________
All in one = MCR220-DRIVE $196.95 (+40% :shakes:)

Yes, I agree that when you compare the MCR Res (a swiftech exclusive) + a pump there is a big difference; but please also read this cost analysis, comparing to a traditional (granted using swiftech components) 4 device loop: http://www.swiftech.com/PRODUCTS/mcr-drive%20cost%20analysis.html


To be totally candid, the reason why there is such a difference between MCR Res and MCR Drive, is that the pump housing is precision CNC'd from brass. I absolutely envision drastic cost reductions in the future as production ramps up, and different manufacturing methods are used. If this concept takes off, there is no reason why the cost for the pump housing wouldn't be just a few Dollars more if anything at all.

[NaeKuh]

Hey gabe i dont understand why u guys have it with a 350 and not a 355.
Can you at least offer the option of either or?

Direct from YOUR website:
MSRP
Description Part # MSRP
MCP355™ Pump MCP355
$79.95


Why not just sub a 355 instead? Its the same price, and better performance.

Is there a specific reason why u guys picked the 350 over the 355?

[Manicdan]

wow this thing is great for a build i was going to do next. i like WCing, but i dont like too much weight or large parts everywhere.

i will say that like a few others here, they are expecting a good quality powerful pump. i hope to soon see a 355 used and voltage/speed adjustment options. when im not benching i like to keep the pump much lower and shave off 10-12W.

[geoffsthaboss]

looks great but just saw it on frozen...and seems a little expensive. i thought the price of the ones without the pumps were the ones with the pump...

not knocking the idea at all but its steeper than i expected

[Tomasis]

I absolutely envision drastic cost reductions in the future as production ramps up, and different manufacturing methods are used. If this concept takes off, there is no reason why the cost for the pump housing wouldn't be just a few Dollars more if anything at all.

lets hope for it :up:

i vote for 355 for including the kit. no much price difference from 350.

[Waterlogged]

Hey gabe i dont understand why u guys have it with a 350 and not a 355.
Can you at least offer the option of either or?

Direct from YOUR website:
MSRP
Description Part # MSRP
MCP355™ Pump MCP355
$79.95


Why not just sub a 355 instead? Its the same price, and better performance.

Is there a specific reason why u guys picked the 350 over the 355?

I'd be worried about cavitation with a 355. . .heck, I'm kind of surprised/impressed it doesn't cavitate with the 350.

[_G_]

Any chance of making a radbox but with a 60mm offset and open?
Made an offset bracket long ago for a rad mount to get the barbs lined up with the rear 120mm fan hole.
(plz excuse the crappy phone pic lol)
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/6148/imag0015m.th.jpg (http://img38.imageshack.us/i/imag0015m.jpg/)

[redphil]

I am currently using a Dual-Heat Exchanger mounted on the back of my case like the one shown in the pictures. But in my case (and I think in the case of many others) there would be a downside with the MCR Drive: the tubeholes of a lot of cases (like the ones of my Lian-Li) are in a high position above the position of the Heat Exchanger. But it's not useful to mount the MCR Drive with the tube-connectors upwards. So that's a bit unhandy.

You can see the problem in the following picture:
http://redphil.eu/p60.jpg
Besides, interesting and helpful product . :)

[Jamesrt2004]

its not hard to take out a pcie slot bracket n route it through there tho :/

[mrcape]

I got a swiftech res rad about a year ago and was skeptical at first, but I have to say that it was a freaking awesome purchase. It almost makes a separate res seem dumb after using both normal rad and res and the combo rad in single block loops and comparing performance. Not sure how it would do with a pump in the mix but I love the res/rad.

[Stewie007]

Hey, are you the same gabe that replies to the emails? :-p Are you absolutely sure I can't get away with NPT and a sealant? ^_^

[redphil]

its not hard to take out a pcie slot bracket n route it through there tho :/

The diameter of the tube is too big for that. ;)

[Bolas]

Are the pumps powerful enough that you could mount additional plain vanilla radiators in series with them for extra cooling?

For example, on a Lian Li PC-343B case, I could see mounting two of the swiftech dual all-in-one radiator/pump/reservoir combos in the front of the unit and then a couple more regular radiators on the top of the unit to give more cooling.

[Bolas]

I don't understand those of you who complain, seriously. This is not another rad nor another top...this is something we didn't have: pure innovation. It may not be for everybody, but this is how world is. Lets just say thanks to Gabe (and his team behind him) and encourage other manufacturers to follow his steps and bring new stuff to us.


I totally agree. Very nice innovation, wonder why I didn't think of it myself!

If someone's complaining that this design is not perfect... I seem to remember that the first computer left a lot to be desired as well, but that over time, it has improved.

Looks pretty nice to me for an all-in-one solution for a small form factor system.

Swiftech: The next step is to highlight to people some cases which would be ideal for mounting these vertically. Perhaps even work with a case builder (ahem, Lian Li) to design a case which is custom configured to hold these products. I forsee a case with a triple across the front, and a dual across the back, for quick and easy installation of a dual-loop water cooling solution.

Perhaps take a 3-compartment case style like a Lian Li X1000 and turn the design on it's side like a Maingear Shift. Then the rad/pump/res combos would be oriented vertically and in their own compartment. A couple tubes would enter the main compartment, go to the blocks, and back out. Simple, concealed, neat, and isolated from the main part of the unit.

[gabe]

I am currently using a Dual-Heat Exchanger mounted on the back of my case like the one shown in the pictures. But in my case (and I think in the case of many others) there would be a downside with the MCR Drive: the tubeholes of a lot of cases (like the ones of my Lian-Li) are in a high position above the position of the Heat Exchanger. But it's not useful to mount the MCR Drive with the tube-connectors upwards. So that's a bit unhandy.

You can see the problem in the following picture:
http://redphil.eu/p60.jpg
Besides, interesting and helpful product . :)

if you have at least one PCI opening available, you can drive your tubes thru it ;)

[gabe]

Hey, are you the same gabe that replies to the emails? :-p Are you absolutely sure I can't get away with NPT and a sealant? ^_^

I am the same Gabe yes, but I responded that you CANNOT use NPT fittings with our threads..

Here is copy of our exchange:

Hi There:

These threads are absolutely not compatible. Sorry :-(

Best regards,


Gabe



From: Michael ......
Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 8:42 AM
To: Help
Subject: Threaded fittings question.

Your radiators are threaded to fit BSPP fittings and G1/4 threads. The problem is, for various reasons, I am going to use them with metal piping and I cannot find such fittings to accomodate this use. Are the NPSM threaded holes at all compatible with NPT with the use of a good sealant?

Regards,

Mike

[gabe]

The diameter of the tube is too big for that. ;)

you can easily remove one of the partitions between two slots, , and it fit just fine, and still allow to install a PCI device in one of the slots.

[gabe]

Are the pumps powerful enough that you could mount additional plain vanilla radiators in series with them for extra cooling?

For example, on a Lian Li PC-343B case, I could see mounting two of the swiftech dual all-in-one radiator/pump/reservoir combos in the front of the unit and then a couple more regular radiators on the top of the unit to give more cooling.

Yes they are.

[gabe]

I totally agree. Very nice innovation, wonder why I didn't think of it myself!

If someone's complaining that this design is not perfect... I seem to remember that the first computer left a lot to be desired as well, but that over time, it has improved.

Looks pretty nice to me for an all-in-one solution for a small form factor system.

Swiftech: The next step is to highlight to people some cases which would be ideal for mounting these vertically. Perhaps even work with a case builder (ahem, Lian Li) to design a case which is custom configured to hold these products. I forsee a case with a triple across the front, and a dual across the back, for quick and easy installation of a dual-loop water cooling solution.

Perhaps take a 3-compartment case style like a Lian Li X1000 and turn the design on it's side like a Maingear Shift. Then the rad/pump/res combos would be oriented vertically and in their own compartment. A couple tubes would enter the main compartment, go to the blocks, and back out. Simple, concealed, neat, and isolated from the main part of the unit.

Cosmos S has a perfect spot up front to bolt on an MCR 220 Drive. Just bolt on the hard drive cage. it leaves 3 open slots for cd/dvd. and you can also add a tripe up at the top of the case. tha'ts what I have in my current system.

[thelittlechef]

I have two concerns about this design. One would be the shorter lifespan of a pump when compared to a rad. Will it be possible to replace the pump without replacing the whole unit? Number two would be noise, will pump vibrations resonate through the entire rad?

[CedricFP]

Would there be any issues running one of these with a second MCP355 w/ top?

[Leeghoofd]

Very innovative product that will create a big stirr for all them compact ( and sometimes underperforming ) all in one cooling solutions. Looking forward to some reviews

[Stewie007]

I am the same Gabe yes, but I responded that you CANNOT use NPT fittings with our threads..

I know, I know...... :)

[Bodkin]

This is great idea! Any timeframe for uk shops?

Aslo, what size is the fillport, is it 1/4 so i can mount the rad horisontaly and still fill it?

[Marcng]

would there be any problem using the top opening as the inlet for the rad, and block the one next to the pump outlet?
that way, it should eliminate any "bad" orientation, apart from the up-side-down one.

but i wanna know what thread size is that on the fillport first.

[Sailindawg]

Aslo, what size is the fillport, is it 1/4 so i can mount the rad horizontally and still fill it?

I'm using the 220 rad / res combo. The fill port is not a 1/4 fitting. It is larger. You would need to go to your local hardware store, match the threads of the fillport cap and get some appropriate fittings.

My current rad / res orientation is up-rite (with fill port on top) and bolted to the back of my pc via the rad box. I like the fact I don't need a stand alone reservoir. What I'm liking about the MCR drive approach, is the elimination of a lot of fittings, an internal pump inside the case and the reservoir.

[Bodkin]

I'm using the 220 rad / res combo. The fill port is not a 1/4 fitting. It is larger. You would need to go to your local hardware store, match the threads of the fillport cap and get some appropriate fittings.

My current rad / res orientation is up-rite (with fill port on top) and bolted to the back of my pc via the rad box. I like the fact I don't need a stand alone reservoir. What I'm liking about the MCR drive approach, is the elimination of a lot of fittings, an internal pump inside the case and the reservoir.

Thats annoying, guess I could use a t fitting to fill it

[alacheesu]

My only two complaints is 1) I'm a little worried about pump vibration and 2) it takes away half the fun in building a loop. :P Otherwise it looks like a very solid product as far as I can tell.

[affiliate13]

Very nice Gabe,
Any plans for a 140mm version or one a bit thicker?

[JeffLo]

nice product would 1 MCR320-DRIVE be enought for 2 5970 to cool? never tried wc b4 so this would be a great start and easy

[gillbot]

you can use this to go through the pci if you want to use fittings: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/7109/koo-105/Koolance_L-Bracket_with_Dual_G_14_Socket_Fittings_BKT-PCI-G.html

[Manicdan]

nice product would 1 MCR320-DRIVE be enought for 2 5970 to cool? never tried wc b4 so this would be a great start and easy

it probably can, but your temps might be in the 50-60s instead of lower 40s with a proper setup. theres plenty of reviews out there, just look radiator reviews, this will be no different than the rad by itself used with a full kit.

[PiLsY]

Few quick questions...

Any plans to do a 140mm version and/or allow g1/4 mounting for barbs?

Also would it be easy to invert the design for re-tooling? If so could you make 2 mirror opposite versions to allow all mounting possibilities? Just an idle thought :).

Do you find any vibration gets transferred to the case when hard mounting the rad via the radbox? I ended up adding two spacers with O rings to the g1/4 male/male connector attaching my pump to my rad to reduce vibration.

And a sneaky one at the end - 140mm radbox planned anytime soon Gabe?


Another brilliant product - really nails the all in one market while stopping the problems associated with upgrading the apogee drive baseplate for each new cpu that comes out. Makes good quality water cooling available to a much wider audience. Far less fear involved with this kind of solution when making the transition from air to water. :up:

[ahmad]

I have a feeling this design can be improved significantly with slight modifications...

[Manicdan]

is it safe to have it on the top of the case as long as you have the pump side hanging a little lower than the reservoir side? im talking only an inch extra here, not a full 45 degrees or anything.

[Boogerlad]

I have a feeling this design can be improved significantly with slight modifications...

How so?

[ahmad]

How so?

Pump top. If swiftech wanted to be clever they could provide a choice of pump top attachments to the rad, allowing a much wider range of configuration possibilities. Not sure how much more expensive it would be, but certainly $10 would be well worth it.

[sirheck]

Pump top. If swiftech wanted to be clever they could provide a choice of pump top attachments to the rad, allowing a much wider range of configuration possibilities. Not sure how much more expensive it would be, but certainly $10 would be well worth it.


I forsee some guys breaking out the ole Dremmel tool
and porting the bottom of the rad.:up:

But yeah i maybe could see a spacer to go in between the pump and rad.:shrug:

[_G_]

I forsee some guys breaking out the ole Dremmel tool
and porting the bottom of the rad.:up:

But yeah i maybe could see a spacer to go in between the pump and rad.:shrug:

I rember that happened with the original AC tops when they saw the small inlet and outlet ports, results where worse performance and a nice lexan paperweight.

[gabe]

I have two concerns about this design. One would be the shorter lifespan of a pump when compared to a rad. Will it be possible to replace the pump without replacing the whole unit? Number two would be noise, will pump vibrations resonate through the entire rad?

there is absolutely no indication that this setup would affect the life of the pump whatsoever.

yes you can replace the pump with any MCP350 or 355 pump. If this is a warranty, then we can replace the pump by simply removing 4 screws. by the way, the warranty is 2 years.

the pump is solidary from the rad. good insulation of the radiator from the chassis is a good idea, such as silicone gaskets, to prevent vibrations from the pump to rattle loose components in the chassis.


Would there be any issues running one of these with a second MCP355 w/ top?

if you mean a second pump in series, no objection whatsoever.


This is great idea! Any timeframe for uk shops?

Aslo, what size is the fillport, is it 1/4 so i can mount the rad horisontaly and still fill it?

UK shops probably in 2 weeks.
the fill-port is: PG11 (edited for earlier typo pg14)


would there be any problem using the top opening as the inlet for the rad, and block the one next to the pump outlet?
that way, it should eliminate any "bad" orientation, apart from the up-side-down one.

not possible. you would have no circulation in half of the radiator.

but i wanna know what thread size is that on the fillport first.

PG14



Very nice Gabe,
Any plans for a 140mm version or one a bit thicker?

sure, in time.


nice product would 1 MCR320-DRIVE be enought for 2 5970 to cool? never tried wc b4 so this would be a great start and easy

Absolutely


it probably can, but your temps might be in the 50-60s instead of lower 40s with a proper setup. theres plenty of reviews out there, just look radiator reviews, this will be no different than the rad by itself used with a full kit.

How you are you getting these numbers?


Few quick questions...

Any plans to do a 140mm version and/or allow g1/4 mounting for barbs?

Also would it be easy to invert the design for re-tooling? If so could you make 2 mirror opposite versions to allow all mounting possibilities? Just an idle thought :).

Do you find any vibration gets transferred to the case when hard mounting the rad via the radbox? I ended up adding two spacers with O rings to the g1/4 male/male connector attaching my pump to my rad to reduce vibration.

And a sneaky one at the end - 140mm radbox planned anytime soon Gabe?


Another brilliant product - really nails the all in one market while stopping the problems associated with upgrading the apogee drive baseplate for each new cpu that comes out. Makes good quality water cooling available to a much wider audience. Far less fear involved with this kind of solution when making the transition from air to water. :up:

140mm see above
G1/4: it already is compatible.
mirror: will look into it
mounting with radbox: less vibrations with rabox than hardmount to chassis: the plastic radbox acts as a damper - o-ring or rubber washer between the screw heads and the chassis (the ones that that forms the posts to fasten the radbox base) will also further decouple the assembly from the chassis for additional insulation - how did you install your pump to the rad and to a radbox? pic please. just curious.



Pump top. If swiftech wanted to be clever they could provide a choice of pump top attachments to the rad, allowing a much wider range of configuration possibilities. Not sure how much more expensive it would be, but certainly $10 would be well worth it.

yes, this is something we will be looking into

[Manicdan]

How you are you getting these numbers?



pure speculation. too many unknown variables, which is why i recommended he check out rad reviews. low vs high fan speed could easily make 10 degree difference, a light overclock could make another 10 degrees. based on a load anywhere from 600-800W a 320 rad is probably not enough, i would recommend a second one, or some delta fans and ear plugs.

[Jamesrt2004]

pure speculation. too many unknown variables, which is why i recommended he check out rad reviews. low vs high fan speed could easily make 10 degree difference, a light overclock could make another 10 degrees. based on a load anywhere from 600-800W a 320 rad is probably not enough, i would recommend a second one, or some delta fans and ear plugs.

load will be ALWAYS less then 600W.. the rad will be fine :yepp:

[Manicdan]

load will be ALWAYS less then 600W.. the rad will be fine :yepp:

dual 5980s always below 600W? based on what exactly?

[Bodkin]

Cheers for the fast response Gabe, hence why I buy swiftech! I cant find any info on PG14. How big a problem is filling it in a heavy case when its horizontal going to be? Are there any pg14 to bsp 1/4 converters about so I can add some tube?

Edit: Just seen on your sight it cant be mounted at top of a pc case. Shame, as I am sure many people would want to do that

[zytrahus]

Cheers for the fast response Gabe, hence why I buy swiftech! I cant find any info on PG14. How big a problem is filling it in a heavy case when its horizontal going to be? Are there any pg14 to bsp 1/4 converters about so I can add some tube?

Edit: Just seen on your sight it cant be mounted at top of a pc case. Shame, as I am sure many people would want to do that

I think he meant PG11, not PG14.

[kgtiger]

Congratulations Gabe, on bring a new ideas to the market, I like it, it's a sweet design. :yepp:

I feel it take a brave person, a true pioneer to think out side the box, to then have the guts to back him/herself and give it a go,
and really, really big balls to stand up and say, I have made this, what do you think, do you like it.
After all, this XS crowd can be quite demanding and a little tough to satisfy.:rolleyes:
However, I do feel all in all we really do need to thank you for sticking your neck out and trying something new. So thank you :up:

As my son is counting down the days, has been for over a month now, it's 2 days to Christmas, so Gabe, I wish you and your family a very Marry Christmas and a magnanimous new year.
May your stockings be filled to the top, of whatever you need the most. :)

Have a good one champ. :up:

[gabe]

pure speculation. too many unknown variables, which is why i recommended he check out rad reviews. low vs high fan speed could easily make 10 degree difference, a light overclock could make another 10 degrees. based on a load anywhere from 600-800W a 320 rad is probably not enough, i would recommend a second one, or some delta fans and ear plugs.

total load: fair enough
GPU temps: water temp will rise for sure. On the other hand, I think that the lower thermal resistance (pin matrix) of our Epsilon blocks will really shine there.

[gabe]

I think he meant PG11, not PG14.

Sorry for the typo, yes you are correct it is PG11

[gabe]

Congratulations Gabe, on bring a new ideas to the market, I like it, it's a sweet design. :yepp:

I feel it take a brave person, a true pioneer to think out side the box, to then have the guts to back him/herself and give it a go,
and really, really big balls to stand up and say, I have made this, what do you think, do you like it.
After all, this XS crowd can be quite demanding and a little tough to satisfy.:rolleyes:
However, I do feel all in all we really do need to thank you for sticking your neck out and trying something new. So thank you :up:

As my son is counting down the days, has been for over a month now, it's 2 days to Christmas, so Gabe, I wish you and your family a very Marry Christmas and a magnanimous new year.
May your stockings be filled to the top, of whatever you need the most. :)

Have a good one champ. :up:

Thanks! But our Thermal Engineer Stephen Mounioloux is the inventor, and he deserves all the credit. On the personal level, my biggest satisfaction in this job comes from knowing that what we do here is used and appreciated by our customers. Thanks again for confirming this!

[Manicdan]

is it safe to have it on the top of the case as long as you have the pump side hanging a little lower than the reservoir side? im talking only an inch extra here, not a full 45 degrees or anything.

any response to this question of mine, Gabe?

[Bodkin]

^this

[gabe]

Cheers for the fast response Gabe, hence why I buy swiftech! I cant find any info on PG14. How big a problem is filling it in a heavy case when its horizontal going to be? Are there any pg14 to bsp 1/4 converters about so I can add some tube?

Edit: Just seen on your sight it cant be mounted at top of a pc case. Shame, as I am sure many people would want to do that

It can be installed and will work perfectly well this way, but 1/ you need an auxiliary reservoir, and 2/there is a risk that the pump could lose it's prime if:

1/ the level in the reservoir is sufficiently low (enough air to fill more than that half the pump cavity, which is not that much..) and
2/ you move or ship your PC someplace and that big air bubble travels to the pump and stays there.

Then you restart your system.. and the pump can't prime.

Now, the above is true for ANY liquid cooling system where the user installs the pump at the highest point of the loop, simply because the pump becomes an air trap.

Regarding mounting the radiator at an angle, then the pump is no longer at the highest point, and therefore air could travel upwards install of staying stuck in the pump, and it would work.

Understand that we are very mindful to only recommend the safest configurations to users.

[mav2000]

Well that kills it for me...This is an amazing product, but I just wish it could be used at the top of the case.

[PiLsY]

140mm see above
G1/4: it already is compatible.
mirror: will look into it
mounting with radbox: less vibrations with rabox than hardmount to chassis: the plastic radbox acts as a damper - o-ring or rubber washer between the screw heads and the chassis (the ones that that forms the posts to fasten the radbox base) will also further decouple the assembly from the chassis for additional insulation - how did you install your pump to the rad and to a radbox? pic please. just curious.


Must confess to not using a Swiftech one - got this one years ago. I do have the clearance for the swiftech one - just need to swap the rear case fan from internally mounted to externally mounted. Really fancy changing to 140mm throughout.


Tight fit using an Eheim as below:
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u235/matt08071975/Games%20PC/P1010115-1.jpg


But plenty of room when I switched to a DD CPX-Pro:
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u235/matt08071975/Games%20PC/Image003-1-1-1.jpg

[dingdong555]

Jab-Tech now has these instock guys. Very good price IMO as all you need is a CPU block + some tubing. Great for system builders + people who want to be introduced to liquid cooling!

MCR320/Pump (http://jab-tech.com/Swiftech-MCR320-DRIVE-With-Pump-pr-4623.html#buynow) - $194.95
MCR 320/No pump (http://jab-tech.com/Swiftech-MCR320-DRIVE-B-No-Pump-pr-4622.html) - $134.95
MCR 220/No pump (http://jab-tech.com/Swiftech-MCR220-DRIVE-B-No-Pump-pr-4621.html) - $124.95
MCR 220/Pump (http://jab-tech.com/Swiftech-MCR220-DRIVE-Pump-Included-pr-4620.html) $184.95

[aiya]

Wish they made a single 120 version but I'm guessing there isn't a large enough market to warrant production.

[kevikev]

Looks like the display adapter would be blocked. Those of us using dual link DVI cables with large ferrites would never be able to connect to the card with that hanging off the back.


Wish they made a single 120 version but I'm guessing there isn't a large enough market to warrant production.

Me, too. The double and triple versions won't be feasible for rear mounting if you have bulky video cables connected to outputs in your 1st/topmost PCI-E slot.

I'll have to measure and see if I could connect my cables to the bottom 2 slots of the bottom most slot and still have clearance for the hoses.

[gabe]

Me, too. The double and triple versions won't be feasible for rear mounting if you have bulky video cables connected to outputs in your 1st/topmost PCI-E slot.

I'll have to measure and see if I could connect my cables to the bottom 2 slots of the bottom most slot and still have clearance for the hoses.

You can always use a Radbox..

[kevikev]

Wish they made a single 120 version but I'm guessing there isn't a large enough market to warrant production.


You can always use a Radbox..

If this is in answer to enough clearance between the MCR Drive and cables coming out of the expansion slot, then the comment was already assuming a Radbox would be used.

With the Radbox and 120mm fan inbetween, how much clearance are we looking at between the backplate of the motherboard tray and the radiator itself?

The part that I'm concerned about it is:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4035/4418086044_5631507df1_o_d.jpg

The yellow line on the left hand side shows roughly where the left edge of the radiator would extend downwards and depending on how far from the backplate the radbox+120mm fan extends, it may or may not be enough clearance for the Ferrite video cables. The yellow line going across the image shows where the bottom of the radiator/pump might block another of the video output cables.

I'll have to make a cardboard cutout mockup and see for myself, unless there is a to-scale drawing I can print out of:
http://www.swiftnets.com/assets/images/products/MCR-DRIVE/mcr220%20drive%20dimensionsX800.jpg

[iceredwing]

so then it is confirmed that they won't be making a single radiator version?

[Captain_Harlock]

They couldnt does a single 120 version of this design and compete price wise with other LCLC systems like the corsair H50. Maninly becuase LCLC 120 solutions use cheaper, lower end pumps. This design is meant for the 350/355 series and the pump alone costs more than an LCLC kit. The best they could do is to bring back the swiftech h20-120 and most of us in 2010 would wonder why. Even the h2-120 kit used a modded 350/355 I think. So unless they decide to get into low in pumps for the LCLC market, I dont think we will see another 120 cooling kit from swiftech again. Besides, most people are begging the LCLC players to start making 240 and 360 kits. This is of course my two cents on the subject. I'm sure Gabe will have something to say about it.

[Waterlogged]

They couldnt does a single 120 version of this design and compete price wise with other LCLC systems like the corsair H50. Maninly becuase LCLC 120 solutions use cheaper, lower end pumps. This design is meant for the 350/355 series and the pump alone costs more than an LCLC kit. The best they could do is to bring back the swiftech h20-120 and most of us in 2010 would wonder why. Even the h2-120 kit used a modded 350/355 I think. So unless they decide to get into low in pumps for the LCLC market, I dont think we will see another 120 cooling kit from swiftech again. Besides, most people are begging the LCLC players to start making 240 and 360 kits. This is of course my two cents on the subject. I'm sure Gabe will have something to say about it.

Sorry, but this is exactly why Swiftech should make a 120 version. Sure it may not be as cheap as a LCLC but it would also perform at least 2x better than a LCLC, so in the end, it'd actually be worth the money, unlike those crap units. It would also give us a viable alternative to point to for those that are interested in a LCLC and still remain somewhat cost effective, without any of the black eyes associated with LCLC.

[Captain_Harlock]

Yeah, but they stopped producing it. I would have to assume its because it couldnt compete in the LCLC market with it. And since the 220 kits were just a wee bit more money for much better performance, one has to wonder why wouldnt you get the 220 or better? Of course we know that that the MCR120, a 350/355 pump (still dont know which one it had), and a decent block all combined in a short loop with only four ports will outperform any other single 120 LCLC on the market, but not at dollar to performance ratio. I mean, $70 for most LCLC compared to the old $130-$150 that the H20-120 tended to sell at. That has to be the reason the 120 line was dropped, or am I missing something here.

[Waterlogged]

Yeah, but they stopped producing it. I would have to assume its because it couldnt compete in the LCLC market with it. And since the 220 kits were just a wee bit more money for much better performance, one has to wonder why wouldnt you get the 220 or better? Of course we know that that the MCR120, a 350/355 pump (still dont know which one it had), and a decent block all combined in a short loop with only four ports will outperform any other single 120 LCLC on the market, but not at dollar to performance ratio. I mean, $70 for most LCLC compared to the old $130-$150 that the H20-120 tended to sell at. That has to be the reason the 120 line was dropped, or am I missing something here.

Actually, Swiftech still sells a H2O-120 kit. The current revision is the H2O-120 Compact (http://www.swiftnets.com/products/h20-120-compact.asp), the one with the pump built into the block. The problems with those is the barbs seem to break a bit on the easy side and your sort of tied into a "certain block". Gabe sent out replacement parts for all the damaged ones I'm aware of but still, it seems like kind of a hassle, and your still tied into that same block...a 120 pump/rad combo would be the natural replacement for the Compact as it would certainly correct the "block problem".

[gabe]

Sorry, but this is exactly why Swiftech should make a 120 version. Sure it may not be as cheap as a LCLC but it would also perform at least 2x better than a LCLC, so in the end, it'd actually be worth the money, unlike those crap units. It would also give us a viable alternative to point to for those that are interested in a LCLC and still remain somewhat cost effective, without any of the black eyes associated with LCLC.

working on it.. but the cost of our pump alone = to the cost of their kit, reason why we released the dual and triple version first. But I agree that a 120 would be a good option for very space constrained applications, and since the pump comes with it, it would always be possible to add a second rad whenever feasible.

[OggeOJ]

Innovation right there, thinking of the thread "whats the next innovation going to be".

[meanmoe]

Actually, Swiftech still sells a H2O-120 kit. The current revision is the H2O-120 Compact (http://www.swiftnets.com/products/h20-120-compact.asp), the one with the pump built into the block. The problems with those is the barbs seem to break a bit on the easy side and your sort of tied into a "certain block". Gabe sent out replacement parts for all the damaged ones I'm aware of but still, it seems like kind of a hassle, and your still tied into that same block...a 120 pump/rad combo would be the natural replacement for the Compact as it would certainly correct the "block problem".

I used to run this kit on an HTPC... nice kit. Unfortunately, as stated, your stuck with that (apogee?) block. It's still a nice compact little system.

[james111]

Any update on the 120 version gabe? I'm really looking forward to this compact version.

[wevsspot]

Relative to using a 220 or 320 drive series in conjunction with a radbox and clearance issues. When I mounted mine I used the radbox + 120X38mm Yate Loon fans. The extra width of the 38mm wide fan gives you a little more wiggle room, and if things are really tight you can use a 38mm with the rad box and regular width 120s on the bottom.

A question specifically for Gabe though. I've had my MCR Drive Series system up and running for about a week now (replaced a loop consisting of MCR220-QP, MCP655, MicroRes and Apogee GTZ). And I get a constant popping/ticking noise that seems to be coming from near the top of the radiator inside the reservoir. I'm sure it's not the pump (that was my first concern) I've got good and steady head and pressure and I actually listened to it with my daughter's stethescope (or however you spell it). I've got the 220 with the MCP350 pump that comes factory with the unit. The system appears to be fully bled at this point - i'm using clear tubing and the flow going into the Apogee GTZ block is foam and bubble free. Of course the flow coming out of the water block is disturbed and is flowing back into the inlet of the radiator. Any help you can give would be appreciated. The reservoir has been opened and topped off now twice and at this point is full to the fill hole. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, because I love the setup but this noise is driving me bonkers :(

[Sailindawg]

@wevsspot

I've been running a 360 Drive since they came out. The best way to fill & bleed, is to build your loop and fill outside of the case. Put the radiator as the highest point and dangle the loop. I put the rad on the edge of a table, dangling the hoses and blocks. Fill throttling the pump motor until there is no air in the loop. To seal the rad, I top off the rad fill port to a reverse miniscus and then screw the stopper in, wiping any excess water that spills.

Now you should be good to go. Install loop back into case. The loop should be silent after that. The pinging you're referring to is a small amount of air in the loop.

[wevsspot]

Sailin - thanks for the quick response and thanks for the confirmation on the pinging noise coming from the radiator and nothing else. However, excuse my lack of "smarts" on some of the things you recommend. I'm just a simple boy from Arkansas and I'm not sure I understand your procedure and I definitely don't know what a reverse miniscus is :(
Once you build the loop outside of the case (which I did for a 24 hour leak test) how do you keep the loop sealed for installation into the rig? If I break the hoses down from the fittings I'm introducing air again right? I'm attaching a photo from my post over at OCC forums to show you how my installation looks. Any advice or clarification you can give would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again.

p.s. My reservoir is slightly higher than the cpu block mounted using a radbox and 120mm fan holes/spacers etc.

Regards,

Jerry

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/4263/dscf2199z.jpg
By wevsspot (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/wevsspot), shot with FinePix S3100 (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=FinePix+S3100&make=FUJIFILM) at 2010-04-02
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/1683/dscf2192j.jpg
By wevsspot (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/wevsspot) at 2010-04-02

[Sailindawg]

Wevsspot,

(face palm) I responded thinking of how I put my loop into my CM Stacker. I have the original Stacker. I have the option of putting the power supply at the top or bottom of the case. I keep my power supply at the top of the case.

I removed the back plate on the bottom of the case and pass through the blocks and hoses the opening. I keep the 360 on a rad box outside the case. It's a very simple, straight forward solution that makes for removing the loop very easy.

In your case, your power supply sits at the bottom of the case and you route the tubing through a pci slot. Thanks for the pic of your rig. I didn't realize that you had to build the loop in place.

I have tried bleeding the 360 without removing it. It takes much longer. What I did was throttle the pump on / off to move the air bubbles to the rad. I left the stopper off to see the bubbles coming up. That worked until I had very small fine bubbles. I worked those out by slightly over filling the rad, jogging the power on/off, then releasing the pressure from the rad by removing the stopper. Repeated this for about 15 minutes and repeated over a few days. I ended up getting out 95-98% of the tiniest bubbles. Every once in a while I hear one of those ticks / pings.

In my earlier post, what I meant by a reverse miniscus, was that I over filled the rad a small amount to the point of where the water was just ready to overflow from the fill port. This guaranteed that no air would get into the rad when closing the stopper.

The one draw back to Swiftech's rad / res design, is that if one builds the loop in place, it's almost impossible to remove all the air from the loop. I had a 220 rad / res and found that I really needed a separate res or T-line to remove 100% of the air from the loop.

For me, the 360 is pretty convenient, easy to remove and maintain which is what I was after. HOWEVER, it only remains that way if I use my current case. If I changed my case to something similar to your case, (knowing what I know now)I'd stick with a separate reservoir solution.

[YooNiBaLL]

Would this set be good to use for my 3x275GTX set up? I get pretty high temps with stock air (75 to 80).

[wevsspot]

Sailin - thanks again. When I got home last night I did some research on "reverse miniscus" and kind of discovered what you meant. When I first saw the word all I remembered was when I tore my miniscus playing baseball and couldn't figure out what the heck that had to do with bleeding a water cooling line :)

Anyways, when I got home I actually did a hybrid of your idea. First thing was to try and improve tubing flow exiting the rear of the case. Fewer really sharp bends and no kinks (as of yet anyways). Then I refilled the loop to about 3/4 full in the reservoir and actually tipped my computer upwards from the rear at about a 45 degree angle to get most of the radiator slightly above the cpu block - that frickin' case with everything inside/on it is a heavy son-of-a-buck.......

Powered the pump on and off several times - then set everything upright again. Removed the fill plug and let the air bubbles escape - wiped off some foam and topped off the res until it was overflowing into a cup below the radiator (that reverse miniscus thing :)). Repeated process about five times and the loop is actually pretty darned clear now. And best of all it is silent :) Oh how I love peace and quiet in my old age.

Anyway, will probably have to repeat the procedure a few times from now, but that's ok since you enlightened me to the secret. I don't mind doing that 1/2 has much as I hated opening up my old case, having to move cooling lines from the pump, reservoir, blocks etc. just to change a frickin' video card or put in a new sound card.

I really appreciate your help.

[wevsspot]

Would this set be good to use for my 3x275GTX set up? I get pretty high temps with stock air (75 to 80). My temps at both idle and 100% load are as good as they were with a MCR220-QP, MCP655 pump and Res. I'm sure some of that has to do with the reduction in restrictions in the loop because of the various fittings, bends etc. on my old loop.

With the MCP350 I think the key is going to be flow and head pressure. I'm not sure how well the MCP350 pump would handle the restrictions caused by three seperate water blocks.

However, you could always opt for the Drive Series Radiator without the preinstalled pump and put a MCP355 on it instead.

I guess the other major consideration will be mounting orientation and location. With this setup there is only "one" recommended default orientation and that is with the reservoir at the top, radiator in the middle and pump at the bottom. The Swiftech site shows a couple other possible orientations but they all recommend the use of an additional res placed well above the pump to make sure the pump never runs dry (it isn't a self priming pump).

If you want to hang the pump off the back of your pc using a radbox or the likes then this would be a good alternative instead of dealing with a stand alone pump or res. I'd still wait for an expert to comment on whether the stock MCP350 will play nice with a three block loop though.

[Toolius]

@wevsspot Sidewinders will swap the mcp350 for the mcp 355 for like 5 $ or something . The option is there on the MCR drive product page .:up:

Just got my MRC 220 Drive and Apogee XT delivered to me all the way in india ! My aunt brought this down for me :p: ( sweet Aunt :D )
Thank you Gary at sidewinders for everything and awesomely quick shipping.. :)
Thank you Gabe @ swiftech for making this awesome product. This thing could really sell like hot cakes in a country like ours.
Our i7's are burning up..:yepp:
I really hope you guys do come to india soon ! :up: *hint hint* :p:
Forgive the average pictures.. i have a pretty old crappy cam.:shrug:

http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/5931/dsc01470.th.jpg (http://img545.imageshack.us/i/dsc01470.jpg/)
http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/2170/dsc01469xj.th.jpg (http://img707.imageshack.us/i/dsc01469xj.jpg/)
http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/2582/dsc01466s.th.jpg (http://img683.imageshack.us/i/dsc01466s.jpg/)
http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/4699/dsc01467x.th.jpg (http://img535.imageshack.us/i/dsc01467x.jpg/)
http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/1300/dsc01472u.th.jpg (http://img709.imageshack.us/i/dsc01472u.jpg/)
http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/4043/dsc01477i.th.jpg (http://img32.imageshack.us/i/dsc01477i.jpg/)
http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/4889/dsc01482.th.jpg (http://img576.imageshack.us/i/dsc01482.jpg/)
http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/5274/dsc01485o.th.jpg (http://img683.imageshack.us/i/dsc01485o.jpg/)
http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/7489/dsc01484.th.jpg (http://img545.imageshack.us/i/dsc01484.jpg/)
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/7329/dsc01471j.th.jpg (http://img694.imageshack.us/i/dsc01471j.jpg/)
http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/8431/dsc01491p.th.jpg (http://img188.imageshack.us/i/dsc01491p.jpg/)
Currently Flushing the rad with warm distilled water.
Should i clean this with club soda ? :shrug:

Thanks a ton guys !

[Martinm210]

This is really clever, glad to see some innovation still running strong. NICE!

Curious why the MCP350 was chosen over the 355? Granted the thermal result differences are small and I think you can modify it to 18V, I'd personally rather have the 355 to start with.

Also has the integrated pump top been modified over stock for better efficiency?

I just didn't see any pump performance PQ curves on the site. I'm guessing it would be similar to a stock MCP350, perhaps better due to the removed inlet 90.

[wevsspot]

According to Swiftech, the pump performance curves are similar between the integrated and stand alone versions of the MCP350. However, I disassembled mine on arrival to have a look at the guts and I think just based on design it probably performs slightly better than the standalone. The machining quality is fair to good, although if you had a small dremel you might be able to improve flow and reduce turbulence a little bit by putting a chamfer on the outlet channel opening (pump housing side). Other than that, no burrs, not a lot of machining tool chatter, cuts were clean, drilled holes looked good etc.

One of the benefits of using the MCP350 at 10W is that this pump is virtually silent.

[Waterlogged]

This is really clever, glad to see some innovation still running strong. NICE!

Curious why the MCP350 was chosen over the 355? Granted the thermal result differences are small and I think you can modify it to 18V, I'd personally rather have the 355 to start with.

Also has the integrated pump top been modified over stock for better efficiency?

I just didn't see any pump performance PQ curves on the site. I'm guessing it would be similar to a stock MCP350, perhaps better due to the removed inlet 90.

I'd have to guess because Swiftech is a little bit more friendly to the cost conscient water cooler and their products are usually also beginner friendly that the 350 just made more sense.

[Toolius]

Guys just a couple of questions..
1)would a DDC 3.25 fit the MCR 320 Drive ? and
2)would it be more silent than the 350 that comes on the Drive ? the 350 has a perticular whine to it that i can hear.
3) which is the most silent pump that i can use on the MCR drive series and also the most silent stand alone pump ?
Thanks a ton for the read guys
:)

[wevsspot]

Update pics of MCR 220 Drive used in LianLi Lancool case;

http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/6493/dscf2203b.jpg
By wevsspot (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/wevsspot), shot with FinePix S3100 (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=FinePix+S3100&make=FUJIFILM) at 2010-04-19

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/9720/dscf2209b.jpg
By wevsspot (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/wevsspot), shot with FinePix S3100 (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=FinePix+S3100&make=FUJIFILM) at 2010-04-19

[vinay]

Will the MCR320-Drive be same as using the Swiftech MCR 320 QP and MCP 350 for a i7 setup(cpu loop only)? Is it any good?

[kevikev]

Will the MCR320-Drive be same as using the Swiftech MCR 320 QP and MCP 350 for a i7 setup(cpu loop only)? Is it any good?
Gabe commented earlier in the thread that the combo you've described would be good even when adding a pair of GPUs to the loop.

[vinay]

Gabe commented earlier in the thread that the combo you've described would be good even when adding a pair of GPUs to the loop.

I missed that point.
Well then its very good so i can skip all the tubing problems..
Thank you..

[Coil Spring]

Are replacement pumps available for this radiator system? If so, how much do they cost?

[Waterlogged]

Are replacement pumps available for this radiator system? If so, how much do they cost?

Any DDC model will fit and work.

[Coil Spring]

http://martin.skinneelabs.com/DDC32PumpTopTesting.html

According to this article, a pump top having an inlet with a 90 degree bend hurts efficiency.

Does the swiftech pump housing eliminate this problem like the other aftermarket tops?

[jetroho]

@ Coil Spring ,
yes the inlet of the pump comes straight out of the bottom of the radiator. Its just like an after market top .
j

[shadow of chaos]

Gabe mentioned this was coming out as a kit? if so when? also i cant find MCR Drive in any uk online shops, only one i found was dutch.

Performance should be great on a i7, i dont think i'd put a gpu in the same loop though unless the pump was more powerful. could always add a second for the gpu.

[antiacid]

this does look pretty damned cool! If only I hadn't already bought 2 mcp655 and a bunch of mcr's... Damn you and getting new products out before I can break the old ones! ;)

[james111]

Is the Swiftech MCP350 quieter then the MCP355?

[kevikev]

Is the Swiftech MCP350 quieter then the MCP355?
Yep, according to the Swiftech web page, it was not recommended to use the 355 in cases where you wanted low noise.

[Rapid7]

Gabe mentioned this was coming out as a kit? if so when? also i cant find MCR Drive in any uk online shops, only one i found was dutch.

Performance should be great on a i7, i dont think i'd put a gpu in the same loop though unless the pump was more powerful. could always add a second for the gpu.


http://www.aquatuning.co.uk/product_info.php/info/p9131_Swiftech-MCR320-Drive-Radiator-360mm---ohne-Laing-Pumpe.html


http://www.aquatuning.co.uk/product_info.php/info/p9132_Swiftech-MCR320-Drive-Radiator-360mm---mit-Laing-Pumpe.html

[Tile]

This combo works fine and dandy in small Stacker-type cases because it's easy to install, fill and bleed. Honestly I like this idea.

[shadow of chaos]

http://www.aquatuning.co.uk/product_info.php/info/p9131_Swiftech-MCR320-Drive-Radiator-360mm---ohne-Laing-Pumpe.html


http://www.aquatuning.co.uk/product_info.php/info/p9132_Swiftech-MCR320-Drive-Radiator-360mm---mit-Laing-Pumpe.html

is that the 350 pump or 355? i dont want the 355.

Btw does this compare closely to a full custom loop in performance? i want it because it's so simple to set up. or does the pump let it down somewhat? i only have stock cooling atm.

[Rapid7]

The first link is for the Radiator on it's own,no pump you supply your own 350 or 355.
The second link is for the radiator with the pump included which is a 350, as far as i know by looking on swiftech's site the included pump is allways a 350.

[XxDeadlyxX]

I have an i7 980X, two GTX 480s and an Antec 1200 case. Would the MCP320-Drive be good enough for this CPU and the two GPUs, for running relatively high overclocks? (ie. 4.4GHz for CPU)? Air temps for my 480's are sucking bigtime, can't overclock it much at all without the temps going into 90s on full load and 100c in Unigine Heaven.... so I'm really looking for something better without too much hassle or expertise required. The MCP320-Drive seems appropriate?

Also can I use an EK Supreme HF with this setup? Or is it better to stick with the Apogee XT?

EDIT: Actually is it feasible to buy TWO MCP320-Drive's, one for CPU and UD7 northbridge, and the other for my two GTX 480s? Is that a good idea? Can both be mounted on the back of my Antec 1200 or can't you do more than 1?

[kadozer]

awesome product! I've been having a bit of a hard time last couple weeks trying to plan out 2 loop vs 1 loop ideas for my CPU/GPU blocks. This makes life so much easier now.

[wevsspot]

Prospective buyers...... Give it a go, you wont' be disappointed. Just remember that orientation of the radiator is somewhat limited because the res and pump are integrated into the unit. The Swiftech site shows all of the approved/non-approved orientations. I've been very happy with mine. Head pressure and flow from the MCP 350 is good and it is a quiet little pump. I think the fact that the pump mounts to the radiator and creates an "aftermarket" top so to speak, really helps the performance of this system.

[shadow of chaos]

Prospective buyers...... Give it a go, you wont' be disappointed. Just remember that orientation of the radiator is somewhat limited because the res and pump are integrated into the unit. The Swiftech site shows all of the approved/non-approved orientations. I've been very happy with mine. Head pressure and flow from the MCP 350 is good and it is a quiet little pump. I think the fact that the pump mounts to the radiator and creates an "aftermarket" top so to speak, really helps the performance of this system.

it sounds great and would like one to cool my i7 & 5870, but if i were to get a dual gpu on the next graphics card releases i am not sure how much that would affect temps. could add a 2nd rad but that means more connections

[wevsspot]

you can daisy chain additional radiators and pumps to your heart's content. about the only consideration is that the mcp350 always has to run primed since it's a non-priming pump.

[Martinm210]

According to Swiftech, the pump performance curves are similar between the integrated and stand alone versions of the MCP350. However, I disassembled mine on arrival to have a look at the guts and I think just based on design it probably performs slightly better than the standalone. The machining quality is fair to good, although if you had a small dremel you might be able to improve flow and reduce turbulence a little bit by putting a chamfer on the outlet channel opening (pump housing side). Other than that, no burrs, not a lot of machining tool chatter, cuts were clean, drilled holes looked good etc.

One of the benefits of using the MCP350 at 10W is that this pump is virtually silent.

Yeah, I'm just a graph freak and like seeing test results. They probably don't want to show it because to test it...you'd have to include the radiator as part of the package. The radiator itself will have pressure drop, so the net test result would be worse than a pump by itself.

That's not to say that it's worse than separate components though...just one of those hard to explain things where you have a combination of pump PQ performance that's already reduced in performance by a radiators restriction. That's my guess anyhow.. They could at least compare using system flow rate I guess, but that too would be a bit of a mixed bag of things. Some people would probably want you to test with an aftermarket top, etc....

I would guess it's probably better than a DDC with stock top but worse than one with a good aftermarket top. Difference pretty marginal though and not enough to really worry about.

[JokerCPoC]

working on it.. but the cost of our pump alone = to the cost of their kit, reason why we released the dual and triple version first. But I agree that a 120 would be a good option for very space constrained applications, and since the pump comes with it, it would always be possible to add a second rad whenever feasible.

I'd like to see a 420/360 version(able to use either 120mm fans or 140mm fans) and this would be a 140x420mm type radiator, res and pump of course.

[ScottALot]

a small rectangular cube

Nope. Not happening.