Looking at watercooling

[irenedakota]

I am looking at water cooling my rather hot computer.

My hardware that I want to watercool:
* AMD Phenom II x4 940BE
* ATI HD5850

My CPU easily hits 60C at load (Stock speeds - summer) - I have a Cool-it Domino ALC cooler ATM (Stock cooler ran hotter)
I'm still waiting for my HD5850, but my current HD3850 hits 95C at load (Stock speeds).

I have a Coolermaster HAF922 case.

What do the experts think about the following gear?
* Swiftech H20-220 Apex Ultima kit (Apogee GTZ, MCR220 radiator, MCP655-B pump, MCRES-Micro Revision 2 reservoir)
* Swiftech Komodo 5800
* Swiftech MCR120 Rad
* PrimoFlex Pro LRT tubing
* Bitspower compression fittings

My planned loop will be:
Res -> Pump -> 2x120mm Rad -> Cpu -> 1x120mm Rad -> GPU -> Res

Any thoughts, comments and suggestions are welcome.

[Jamesrt2004]

cant you fit a tripple and a dual in that case, i'd do that, and that water block tbh is pretty old tech now, but the main question is...

how much money do you have to spend, and what are YOUR "ideal" temps for them both?

[irenedakota]

Budget is about USD 550 (Plus about USD 120 for shipping - from perfomance-pcs.com).

Works out $6 cheaper to get a Apogee XT (plus all the other bits from the kit separate)

I don't know about the GPU because I don't actually have it yet. But the CPU I'd be happy to be in the low to mid 50s @ 3.6 - 3.8Ghz.

Can't fit a triple in the case without modding unfortunately. Any form of case modifications are out of the question, and I want everything to be internal.

It has a mount for a double and two 120mm fan mounts (Back and on the bottom). I could get a second single if that will help.

[Conumdrum]

Your up against Physics. You might be fine with a 120x2 and a seperate 120x1. If it's enough depending on your CPU, your ambient room temps, aversion to louder rad fans is an individual thing. Give it a try, and if not enough add the second 120x1. Try to use room air through the rads, not warm case air.

$120 shipping? wow!

[irenedakota]

[snip]
$120 shipping? wow!

The joys of living in South Africa. Super expensive shipping out this way.

[Jamesrt2004]

Budget is about USD 550 (Plus about USD 120 for shipping - from perfomance-pcs.com).

Works out $6 cheaper to get a Apogee XT (plus all the other bits from the kit separate)

I don't know about the GPU because I don't actually have it yet. But the CPU I'd be happy to be in the low to mid 50s @ 3.6 - 3.8Ghz.

Can't fit a triple in the case without modding unfortunately. Any form of case modifications are out of the question, and I want everything to be internal.

It has a mount for a double and two 120mm fan mounts (Back and on the bottom). I could get a second single if that will help.

imo xt will be better, gpu get the mcw60 and use stock heatsink plate thing (like on 4870/90's ..

yes you can, look here http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww278/xguntherc/DSC_0978.jpg there's the third just under the vent =) get a trip + a single and you'll be good to go

oh and for ideas look at http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww278/xguntherc/CompleteLoop-1.jpg

[millertime359]

What are your room temps? The other issue you will be facing is that the rads still have to disapate the heat into the air. If your room stays around 32 degree C during the day, a typical watercooling setup still won't net you LOW temps. Your biggest improvement that you could make to your temps is lower your room temp.

[irenedakota]

imo xt will be better, gpu get the mcw60 and use stock heatsink plate thing (like on 4870/90's ..

yes you can, look here http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww278/xguntherc/DSC_0978.jpg there's the third just under the vent =) get a trip + a single and you'll be good to go

oh and for ideas look at http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww278/xguntherc/CompleteLoop-1.jpg

That's the HAF932 which is a bit bigger the HAF922. I have seen triple setups in a HAF922, but they all involve making new holes into the case.


What are your room temps? The other issue you will be facing is that the rads still have to disapate the heat into the air. If your room stays around 32 degree C during the day, a typical watercooling setup still won't net you LOW temps. Your biggest improvement that you could make to your temps is lower your room temp.

On a hot day room temp is about 28C. A typical watercooling setup should get me ok temps @ sound levels that are not approaching that of a jet.

[millertime359]

It will help, but you may want to look into a 3x120 for your CPU and 2x120 for your GPU. That way you have plenty of surface area seeing you seem to be battling against some pretty high ambients.

[irenedakota]

Nowhere to mount a 3x120, and or an extra 2x120. The best I can do is a 2x120 and 2 1x120s (Which, according to other South Africans I've spoken too should be enough).

[Jamesrt2004]

That's the HAF932 which is a bit bigger the HAF922. I have seen triple setups in a HAF922, but they all involve making new holes into the case.



On a hot day room temp is about 28C. A typical watercooling setup should get me ok temps @ sound levels that are not approaching that of a jet.

ah sorry my friend i got muddles up with the cases humm double plus 2 singles then maybe :up:

[irenedakota]

Here is a simple mockup of my planned loop:

http://imgur.com/ySxIS.jpg (http://imgur.com/ySxIS.jpg)

Any thoughts?

[millertime359]

I would make some measurements of that bottom section. You might not have room for the second 120x1 with the PSU and wires coming out. I don't know though.

If you don't mind doing some modding and using an external DVD drive, you probably could get a 120x2 in the front drive bays.

[NaeKuh]

The joys of living in South Africa. Super expensive shipping out this way.

wait isnt every other person a princess of a rich super billionare over there?

i get email from all your princesses asking me to help them move money in to the US.

(just kidding) :P

[irenedakota]

I would make some measurements of that bottom section. You might not have room for the second 120x1 with the PSU and wires coming out. I don't know though.

If you don't mind doing some modding and using an external DVD drive, you probably could get a 120x2 in the front drive bays.

I'd rather not do any modding (But if it is a tiny bit I might be persuaded).

Don't really need an internal DVD drive, and I already have an external one taking up space on my desk. Thanks for the tip - I'll certainly look into putting a 2x120 in front, then I won't need the 1x120s right? Or would you still suggest putting in a extra 1x120?


wait isnt every other person a princess of a rich super billionare over there?

i get email from all your princesses asking me to help them move money in to the US.

(just kidding) :P

That's Nigeria, not South Africa :rofl:

[millertime359]

I'd rather not do any modding (But if it is a tiny bit I might be persuaded).

Don't really need an internal DVD drive, and I already have an external one taking up space on my desk. Thanks for the tip - I'll certainly look into putting a 2x120 in front, then I won't need the 1x120s right? Or would you still suggest putting in a extra 1x120?

I'm just worried about your high ambients with your wish to overclock.

2 mcr220-qp with so 1450-1850 RPM Gentle Typhoons or S-flexs would probably be ok. Seeing that shipping is expensive and if there is enough room for a mcr120-qp and another fan, it might not be a bad idea to add it.

[irenedakota]

Thanks a bunch.

Once I've finalised my shopping list, I'll post here again to make sure I haven't missed anything.

[irenedakota]

Here is my shopping list
http://imgur.com/tNBB3l.png (http://imgur.com/tNBB3.png)

Anything that I should change/add or that I have forgotten? I'm going to be buying the fans from a local retailer (Works out cheaper).

One slight problem that I have found is that the Apogee XT have a AM2 hold down plate (yet). Any suggestions for an alternative water block?

[millertime359]

Alright, not certain why you have 5 barbs, 10 clamps, and 8 comp fittings. You will either use the barbs or the comp fittings, but not both. If you want the comp fittings, drop the barbs and clamps.

The AM2 backplate is out now, you will have to contact Michelle at Swiftech to get it though. IIRC, they ship it out for free on request. You might want to e-mail her to be certain. Michelle@swiftech.com I think.

I would get this pump: http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59_201&products_id=2539 and this res: http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59_318_665&products_id=23357

Damn, that res is OOS. That combo would have probably been a bit easier for you to mount. If you are going to get the D5 though, I would recommend getting the speed control version. You have the ability to turn the pump down if you find it too loud for you.

[irenedakota]

Those barbs are 2packs (So 10 barbs). My thoughts are that since comp fittings are quite a bit more expensive then barbs, but they look much nicer then barbs, I will use the comp fittings on the things that will be visible from outside.

I did look at that pump, but it has 3/8" barbs (And I'm using 7/16" tubing) - can you change the barbs on the pump?

As for the OOS res, it will probably be in stock again when I actually buy the stuff. First need to get paid :)

[millertime359]

Those barbs are 2packs (So 10 barbs). My thoughts are that since comp fittings are quite a bit more expensive then barbs, but they look much nicer then barbs, I will use the comp fittings on the things that will be visible from outside.

I did look at that pump, but it has 3/8" barbs (And I'm using 7/16" tubing) - can you change the barbs on the pump?

As for the OOS res, it will probably be in stock again when I actually buy the stuff. First need to get paid :)

You will take the top off that pump and then attach that res to the pump. It has G 1/4" threads, so no issues there. It is a nice neat little package and seeing you are tight on space, it should fit better than the D5 and Swiftech res.

Honestly, I wouldn't mix and match them. You have some nice looking clamps there, I would just choice either one. You have only need like 12-14 comp fittings anyways, and you already have 10 on order. Just trying to save you a couple bucks here. :)

[irenedakota]

Thanks for the help!

I didn't realize that the res sits on top of the pump. That will make things easier.

For cost reasons I think I'll rather go with the barbs with clamps.

I've found this very nice water cooling setup in the HAF 922:
http://hafenvy.shawwebspace.ca/asset/view/24847/65-finalinterior.jpg

From: http://www.overclock.net/case-mod-work-logs/569118-project-haf-envy-water-cooled-haf.html

That case has been modded quite a bit (For one the hdd bays have been removed). But it does show me that I will be able to easily fit a 1x120 rad in the bottom (I have the same psu)

And I heard very good news today. My GFX is finally on its way to me. Might be here tomorrow (But I don't think so since tomorrow is a public holiday here)

[millertime359]

Nice, seems as long as you don't have a 1000 watt PSU, that rad will fit on the bottom.

[ahmad]

I have got a question, will the MCP655 be able to give you reasonable flowrates with that many rads?

I am also surprised at your current setup because your res is going to carry the really hot water coming from the GPU. That also means your pump will be running hot water as well. It would make more sense to me to have the water out of a rad and into the pump but I don't know anything about water cooling just looking at it logically.

[millertime359]

I have got a question, will the MCP655 be able to give you reasonable flowrates with that many rads?

I am also surprised at your current setup because your res is going to carry the really hot water coming from the GPU. That also means your pump will be running hot water as well. It would make more sense to me to have the water out of a rad and into the pump but I don't know anything about water cooling just looking at it logically.

You always do res before pump. It is for bleeding and filling purposes. If you have the res below the pump, you will take the chance of running your pump dry.

Tests have been done and loop order doesn't matter outside of res before pump.

[ahmad]

You always do res before pump. It is for bleeding and filling purposes. If you have the res below the pump, you will take the chance of running your pump dry.


Ah yes of course, I should have said "rad into the res".


Tests have been done and loop order doesn't matter outside of res before pump.

Wow. I wish all of this info would be present somewhere in a guide. Seriously everything out there is bloody useless. Thanks mt.

[millertime359]

Wow. I wish all of this info would be present somewhere in a guide. Seriously everything out there is bloody useless. Thanks mt.

Yea, there are the stickies, but those tests I don't think made it into the stickies. I'm not certain where they are either. Some of the vets might know and be able to link it. :)

[irenedakota]

Sent an email to Performance PCs asking for a eta on that res, they say that it is discontinued.

Any other res suggestions? Can I just take any DDC res?

[millertime359]

o wow, didn't know that. Yes, any res will work.

[irenedakota]

Would this be fine:
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59_367&products_id=4510

Thats a Alphacool res with the pump already attached (Same pump I believe)

[irenedakota]

Never mind.

Works out almost $30 cheaper to buy the swiftech pump and this: http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=22629 bitspower res.

[millertime359]

Yea, I forgot about that BP one. The Alpha is nice, but a bit pricey. The BP one should be fine.

[Waterlogged]

Sent an email to Performance PCs asking for a eta on that res, they say that it is discontinued.

Any other res suggestions? Can I just take any DDC res?

If your talking about the XSPC res top. . .Jab-tech still has 12 for sale.

http://www.jab-tech.com/XSPC-Acrylic-Reservoir-for-Laing-DDC-pr-4123.html

[irenedakota]

If your talking about the XSPC res top. . .Jab-tech still has 12 for sale.

http://www.jab-tech.com/XSPC-Acrylic-Reservoir-for-Laing-DDC-pr-4123.html

That might be true, but it doesn't help me. Jab-tech don't ship to South Africa.

[millertime359]

If your talking about the XSPC res top. . .Jab-tech still has 12 for sale.

http://www.jab-tech.com/XSPC-Acrylic-Reservoir-for-Laing-DDC-pr-4123.html

Yea, Sidewinder's still has them in stock too, but seeing he has to have it all shipped to South Africa, and Gary doesn't have everything he wants, figured no use. :(

[Waterlogged]

Hmm, I could have sworn that J-T did international shipping. :(

Maybe talk to P-PC's and see if they would be willing to buy one for you from there and ship it to you. . .or talk with J-T and see if you could buy one and have it shipped to P-PC's for inclusion into your shipment? :shrug: You never know what vendors are willing to do unless you ask. ;)

[irenedakota]

There is nothing wrong with the BP res is there? It is smaller then the XSPC one, but that will just make it easier to mount in my case.

And then I just want to ask, do I need to add any special additives into my water? Or is the best straight distilled water and a bit of silver (I have seen people doing this - and I can get silver easily from a friend)

[dejanh]

There is nothing wrong with the BP res is there? It is smaller then the XSPC one, but that will just make it easier to mount in my case.

And then I just want to ask, do I need to add any special additives into my water? Or is the best straight distilled water and a bit of silver (I have seen people doing this - and I can get silver easily from a friend)

Don't do additives. Silver is fine. What I do is I buy some deionized water then I add a silver ingot into the water and let it sit for a few weeks. After I just use that water with 2 silver-plated barbs in the loop. Been crystal clear now for ~6 months.

[Kurz]

Or you can buy Silver Tabbed Wire.
And make a coil out of it.

[Waterlogged]

There is nothing wrong with the BP res is there? It is smaller then the XSPC one, but that will just make it easier to mount in my case.

And then I just want to ask, do I need to add any special additives into my water? Or is the best straight distilled water and a bit of silver (I have seen people doing this - and I can get silver easily from a friend)

None that I've heard of. . .but, it does share it's design with the Alphacool top + res (only in a one piece compared to 2 for the Alphacool) and the Alphacool is notorious for being a problem to bleed without being filled all the way up (which can be tricky) or an aquarium filter sponge installed. Even though the XSPC looks similar in design, the return tube prevents the problem of turbulence in the res by dumping the majority of the water back into the pump upon it's return to the res.

[millertime359]

None that I've heard of. . .but, it does share it's design with the Alphacool top + res (only in a one piece compared to 2 for the Alphacool) and the Alphacool is notorious for being a problem to bleed without being filled all the way up (which can be tricky) or an aquarium filter sponge installed. Even though the XSPC looks similar in design, the return tube prevents the problem of turbulence in the res by dumping the majority of the water back into the pump upon it's return to the res.

Looking at the description, it seems that BP includes the sponge, so might not be that bad. :shrug:

[shazza]

Just catching up on this thread - shopping list looks good. Also, you should have no issue at all with cooling the 940 and 5850 with a 220 and 120 rad - the extra 120 will provide a bit of extra help, given your ambient temps. I see 40 degree load temps on a BE965 and a 4770 on just one 220 rad with low speed fans (ambients around 23-24 degrees C).

[irenedakota]

My 5850 arrived today. Just waiting for the working day to tick away so I can go home!

And then to be paid so I can order my stuff :)

[irenedakota]

Just found these guys (http://www.specialtech.co.uk) and they work out quite a bit cheaper (Including shipping).

However, I've had to make one or two changes (For now) due to them either being out of stock, or not having the item at all.

Basically I'm looking at:
* EK Supreme HighFlow CPU block (The Apogee XT is OOS ATM)
* EK FC5850
* Laing DDC1+ (MCP355) With XSPC Reservoir (Its a bundle deal)
* 2x Black Ice GTS-Lite 240
* 1x Black Ice GTS-Lite 120
* XSPC Tubing (7/16")

What are the EK water blocks like (Compared to the Swiftech Apogee XT)? And how do the Black Ice rads compare to the Swiftech ones (The Swiftech ones are OOS, so I can wait for them)

[millertime359]

Downfall of the black ice is they are a high FPI rad. This means they work best with fans over 2000 RPM. They will still work fine with slower fans, just not as effiecent as a low FPI rad with the lower speed fans.

EK's new rads are suppose to be pretty nice. They are also a nice price. http://www.specialtech.co.uk/spshop/customer/product.php?productid=10693&cat=0&page=

Magicools are suppose to be pretty equal to Swiftech and are a fair price also. http://www.specialtech.co.uk/spshop/customer/product.php?productid=10473&cat=1220&page=1

[irenedakota]

I just found this worklog: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=231047 and the complete system: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=4076996&postcount=78

It has inspired me to do some modding to get a triple rad in (Its not a lot).

I'm now looking at a Magicool 360 and 2x Magicool 120

Still need to work out if I want to put in both 120s, but with the cost of shipping, I'd rather get an extra then have to place another order.