Enzotech VGA-1S/B waterblocks epic fail? or i'm totally unlucky. Check'n respond pls!

[Gre4ka]

Hello buddies.
I want to share some information about VGA-1S/B waterblocks from Enzotech.

1,5 months ago I bought 2 this waterblocks in Performance-pcs.

when i expected the waterblocks i find that included 1/2" G1/4 fittings can't fit any standard G1/4 hole. It was defective - both fittings in both waterblocks.
here some photo:
http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/2056/img4048t.th.jpg (http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/2056/img4048t.jpg) http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/5592/img4049n.th.jpg (http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/5592/img4049n.jpg) http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/9963/img4050.th.jpg (http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/9963/img4050.jpg)
http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/4319/img4051f.th.jpg (http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/4319/img4051f.jpg) http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/7858/img4052nf.th.jpg (http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/7858/img4052nf.jpg)
I respond this info to the shop and they resend it to Enzotech. 2 weeks later i received small parcel from Taiwan with 4 new and "correct" fittings. If Enzo used the standard fittings - that shoult'd be a problem at all. I have many different fittings - from Bitspower, EK and so on, but they can't be securely screwed in the Enzo waterblocks - due to plastic cover around the G1/4 - so only Enzo fittings that have smaller diameter closer to G1/4 can screw completely and securely into their waterblocks. There are some solution - such as using the rubber O-Rings from Swiftech fittings - O-rings there are thiker and non-standard (3mm instead of 2mm on many other fittings) so with them any fittings fits on Enzo waterblocks well, but i haven't any Swiftech fittings to grab an O-rings from.
After this case i hold all watercool works for some time, while i get 2 285GTX cards, new CPU waterblock and other stuff.
Yesterday i decided to rebuild my watercooling loop with this waterblocks and 2 285GTX cards instead of current 4870x2.
I removed stock cooling system from one card, removed stock TIM from GPU and so on and prepared for VGA-1S installation (i had planned to use with the passive GTX285 from Swiftech - this one (http://www.swiftnets.com/products/gtx285.asp)) because they are fully compatible and i want exactly the Enzo VGA-1S instead of Swiftech MCW-60R.
Enzotech promise VGA-1S compatibility (http://www.enzotechnology.com/vga_is.htm) with many video cards currently on market and old one (this includes ATI 2900-5870 cards - they use the same spacing, and many NVIDIA cards, and the GTX260/280 of cource). As we know the NVIDIA GT200 cards use the same GPU holes spacing. This includes the old one 260-280 and the new 275-285 (both revisions). But something goes wrong here.
Let's see on Swiftech GT200 holdplate for their MCW60-R:
http://www.swiftnets.com/assets/images/products/MCW60/MCW60-Gtx280-hold-down-plate.jpg
here is compatibility list (http://www.swiftnets.com/products/MCW60-COMPATIBILITY-CHART.asp) were we can check that GT200 plate is used on ALL GT200 NVIDIA cards and uses only 1 standard holes spacing - 61mm vertically/horisontally and 85,5mm diagonal between holes. Usually all new ATI cards uses the 54mm V/H and 75,5mm spacings.
So... i don't know HOW the Enzotech prepared waterblock for the market and how measured hold and backplate but they failed again (remember about fittings problem also). The included holdplates and backplates (they are universal - both for ATI and NVIDIA) utilizes the 54mm(75,5mm) spacing and.... strange 58mm (82,5mm) for... i don't know for. Because GT200 cards uses the 61mm (85,5mm) spacings.
here are some photo:
http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/6985/img4138min.th.jpg (http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/6985/img4138min.jpg) http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/1295/img4139min.th.jpg (http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/1295/img4139min.jpg)
http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/905/img4142min.th.jpg (http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/905/img4142min.jpg) http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/4859/img4143min.th.jpg (http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/4859/img4143min.jpg) http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/7431/img4144min.th.jpg (http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/7431/img4144min.jpg)
http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/9739/img4146min.th.jpg (http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/9739/img4146min.jpg) http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/6114/img4147min.th.jpg (http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/6114/img4147min.jpg) http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/3458/img4149min.th.jpg (http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/3458/img4149min.jpg)

it renders my waterblocks unusable... and i don't know what 2 do. I respond to the shop and Enzo through their tech support. Shop respond that they redirected my messege to Enzo also.
May be they plan to fix it with new holddown and backplates, may be they'll do nothing and just remove the GT200 compatibility from the list...
All that remains for me - wait.

Could anyone respond such problems with this waterblocks? or there been affected a limited part of the consignment?
I'am very dissapointed. I love Enzo production - very smart and beatifull things, but such problems raise questions about the selection of products of competitors :confused: :shrug:

[Gre4ka]

get a reply from Enzo by mail:

Dear Denis,
Our VGA-IS is not compatible with NVIDIA GTX285 (as per our website), we are coming
out with a back plate and mounting kit that will be compatible with GTX285
this week. You will be able to purchase that from Performance Pcs.
Please let me know if you have any questions and thank you very much again
for using our products.

very funny :D
Unfortunately I do not have a GTX260 videocard in my hands - i could make another photosession to demonstrate "compatibility".
I wonder - do they see and know the GPU around holes spacings on GT200 cards? it's not a 58mm. it's 61mm on ALL of them.
:shakes: :mad:

[Gre4ka]

get another reply from Enzo:

I apologize for all the inconveniences. The case is under investigation, as soon as I receive an answer I shall send you an updated response.
Thank you for your patience.
and one hour later:

Hi Denis,
After investigation R&D has confirmed there was a mix up on the board models. We will provide the mounting kit to you immediately and also provide necessary actions to fix the issue.
Please provide me your shipping address so I can ship the mounting kits to you.
Again we sincerely apologize for the inconveniences.

so... problem solved.

i think that this info should be usefull for somebody that already purchased VGA-1 waterblocks from Enzo or planning to do it and now know what 2 do in case of mounting it on GT200 cards.

p.s. Very strange that nobody interested in this problem and case and respond nothing :)

[Kurz]

I was interested just never went through that before.
So my input would be not valid.

[Gre4ka]

so...
on 7-th December i received the 2 new one GT200 holddown and backplates for VGA-1S from Enzotech.
today i starting to rebuild my watercooling loop and take some photo to share with you.
The new holdplates ideally fits the GT200 cards, have the correct 61mm spacings. But this hold and backplates are only for GT200 cards. They don't have a holes for the other spacings. So... i think Enzo will start to sell it separately.
they removed the GTX260-280 from compatibility list for VGA-1 waterblock from their site on 25-th october - when i did my last post here. But as i see - the shops that sell this waterblocks don't updated the description, so the 260-280 compatibility is still there.
Also the previous reply from Enzo
"we are coming
out with a back plate and mounting kit that will be compatible with GTX285
this week. You will be able to purchase that from Performance Pcs."
there are nothing on the Enzo website about this kit's and i don't see any in the PCs and other shops.
So... be carefully )))
this was the double-trouble purchase - the fittings problem and the GT200 uncompatibility. ohhh :rolleyes:

some photo (sorry for flashlight):
GT200 plates - as they are
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/8153/img4202min.th.jpg (http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/8153/img4202min.jpg)

plate on GT200 itself:
http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/9739/img4203min.th.jpg (http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/9739/img4203min.jpg)

Swiftech heatsink for GTX285 rev.2 and the Enzo VGA-1S together (pic1):
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/381/img4204min.th.jpg (http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/381/img4204min.jpg)

pic2:
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/9799/img4205min.th.jpg (http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/9799/img4205min.jpg)

as we can see - they are fully compatible.
enjoy.
i think this info could be usefull for somebody.
thanks for attention :surf:

[millertime359]

Thanks for the post. I was curious about those water blocks too. They look really nice. Its a shake you had so many issues with them.

[Gre4ka]

a little notice about Swiftech GTX 285 (and possible other) heatsink and the VGA-1S compatibility. Heatsink was developed to use with Swiftech MCW-60R so there are a little problem, but it easily solves.
here some more pics:

this is what we need to do with the GT200 VGA-1S holdplate to get problem solved. Originally holdplate are too close to heatsink and prevents good contact of VGA-1S waterblock and the GT200 chip. We need a 1,5-2mm space other there to get a good contact.
there are 2 ways - get off 1-2mm of the heatsink in the place where holdplate places, but it's take too much time and so on. And another way - make the holdplate placement higher - so we get our 1-2mm.
i used 10 isolation tape layers and make a "frame" in place where holdplate presses the waterblock borders. It's important to cut it, because in another way in will interfere with the heatsink.
http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/7264/img4214min.th.jpg (http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/7264/img4214min.jpg)
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/2865/img4215min.th.jpg (http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/2865/img4215min.jpg)

the arctic alumina drop in the center after mounting this way. the contact is fine.
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/5305/img4216min.th.jpg (http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/5305/img4216min.jpg)
http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/481/img4217min.th.jpg (http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/481/img4217min.jpg)

and finally vga-1s + 285gtx heatsink from swiftech. all problems solved.
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3613/img4218min.th.jpg (http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3613/img4218min.jpg)
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/1788/img4219min.th.jpg (http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/1788/img4219min.jpg)

as for me - it looks great )) i apologize performes also great )) will test it soon. need to prepare another 1 card :)
the total weight is equal or even greater than stock cooler. closer to fullcover solutions with acetal covers.

enjoy. have fun.

[Gre4ka]

:)
totally - VGA-1S is incompatible with Swiftech GTX285 heatsink (and other too). Heatsink is too high - so we need to make waterblock holdplate higher, but... there is a G1/4 holes. and when we moving holdplate higher - it blocks the holes, so we can't screw the fittings into it.
the solution is only to shrink off 2mm off the heatsink in the GT200 chip area. So the VGA-1S could be mounted in the stock configuration into the card. but it's too hard, and this solution in not yet good one for the waterblock with a price of ~55$

While there is no passive heatsinks for GT200 cards on the market that compatible with VGA-1S - it renders this waterblock unusable on this cards. The VRM, memory and nvio need a radiators. I know only swiftech solutions for 260-275-280-285 cards and some Thermalright stuff. So making it compatible with GT200 cards is just formal.

i opened the waterblock to make some photo and share it. By internal structure it repeates the Sapphire SCW-1 waterblock in smaller version :) so it's looks very unrestrictive for the waterflow.
will post soon.

ordered two Swiftech MCW60-R rev2 from Sidewinder )) hope will arrive until new year hollidays. This is what i should buy first time :) There was too much problems with VGA-1S - defective fittings and incompatibility with GT200 "from the box".

[Stewie007]

Hmm. I am considering buying those Enzotech blocks for my chilled water loop. I just hope that they put out a revision for the 5800 series soon. If not, I'll have to find another block. Its all copper, so it would work great.

Do you know if those fittings are nickel plated? Or are they chrome? I noted that you said only Enzotech fittings fit their blocks. Which is strange, because they claim they are tapped for BSPP fittings, so it should not matter what fittings you buy. If they don't fit properly, then they are probably BSPT.

[Gre4ka]

Stewie007
it should be compatible with 58xx already... because 58xx cards uses the same holes spacing around the chip as the 48xx are.
but you should find the radiators for VRM (very hot on 48xx and 58xx) and another hot elements of the vcard to use it.

about fittings... there is NO problem with holes itself - BSPP. any fittings screws in without problem (tried bitspower fatboy, swiftech, ek), BUT the plastic cover around the G1/4 holes prevents ANY non Enzotech fitting to make a leak-free secure connection. All Enzotech fittings have a very small round base around the thread - so they passes through plastic cover holes without problem and rubber o-ring presses well on the place. Any another fittings stops their base on plastic cover during screwing in, so there is no secure connection - o-ring don't touth the G1/4 hole around - so it starts to leak - like if you screw any fitting in without the o-ring on it.
the only solution is to use fitting with very long thread and very fat non standard (2mm) o-ring. At least 4mm. I tried (and write about it in previous posts) the o-rings from Swiftech fittings - they uses non standard 3mm o-rings - with my Bitspower fatboys - but 3mm is not enough. Another solution - destroy the plastic cover of the waterblock. This will render us the all copper naked cube :) Sharm and nice looking block will degrade to handmade things look :) All this stuff about fittings also correct for the CPU waterblocks - Sappire and so on. There are the same plastic cover.

i think Enzotech don't understand that people sometimes like to use alternate solutions - may be compression fittings, may be just from another manufacturer (Bitspower for example), but forced to use only their fittings.
very bad practice.
So - what we have? we have fine waterblocks (structure, very unrestrictive, very effective - at least this VGA block is the most effective on the market and so on) with fine forging technology, but with absolutely insane things like fittings problems, strange compatibility problems and other unpleasant stuff in one box.

Here are some photo of VGA-1S internal structure ;)

as we see - there is one more minor problem - the IN and OUT are important. The IN - is where the flow goes into the center of the block, and the OUT is there it going under the plate and around it.
Just copies the CPU waterblock structure.
http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/6927/img4241min.th.jpg (http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/6927/img4241min.jpg) http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/1285/img4242min.th.jpg (http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/1285/img4242min.jpg)
and there is NO word about importance of IN/OUT holes in instruction that included and the waterblock itself.

finally - after all of this i'll think twice before buy any stuff from Enzotech. Also very strange that nobody from Enzotech (i know here on this forum is present their representative) don't reply or comment in this thread.
anyway i duplicating all this information in many places. So many watercool addicted people should know what they will deal with when decide to purchase the Enzotech production.