Noise comparisons between Water and Air?

[voigts]

I have been watercooling now for some 4 years, and have considered on several occasions going back to air. I initially went into watercooling for quiet as at the time there weren't any good heatpipe CPU coolers like the TRUE that also are quiet. Unlike CPU coolers however, I don't see any real air cooling innovations when it comes to GPU coolers these days. I am wondering for those of you who use both cooling methods how your watercooled CPU-GPU setups compare noise-wise with the same air setups using high end parts. I am not a serious overclocker- more the 24/7 stable type.

I am running dual MCR320s with dual MCP350s and yate D12SL-12 fans all at about 7v. I find the fan noise to be very acceptable, but the pumps even when isolated from the case well are the loudest thing in my setup, and I wish they were quieter. And this is with them undervolted on a rheostat. I may just drop back down to 1 pump (I am running 2 at the moment for the sake of redundancy) to reduce noise. I however would like to know how air cooled setups compare from others observations.

[zalbard]

Yeah, pumps are definitely annoying. I'd say you can get about the same overclock using air cooling with quiet fans as using water cooling if you do everything right (TIM, lapping, fans, heatsinks, case), with a bit higher temperatures of course. The big problem about air cooling is GPU cooling since it takes a while for after-market coolers to be released for new video cards.
I went from water to air myself, due to financial issues though, but I don't regret it.
Also it depends on how important looks for you are, because there is no doubt that water cooled system done right can look absolutely amazing compared to the bulky air cooled one.

[Noisy]

I am running the Swiftech MCP 655-B, even though the heat dump is a bit more, but I found it very quiet running on 12V. You can't even hear it over the fan. The fan is rated @ 12V 64cfm 14dbA, and I am running it near 5 volt.

[Titan7171]

Yeah, pumps are definitely annoying. I'd say you can get about the same overclock using air cooling with quiet fans as using water cooling if you do everything right (TIM, lapping, fans, heatsinks, case), with a bit higher temperatures of course. The big problem about air cooling is GPU cooling since it takes a while for after-market coolers to be released for new video cards.
I went from water to air myself, due to financial issues though, but I don't regret it.
Also it depends on how important looks for you are, because there is no doubt that water cooled system done right can look absolutely amazing compared to the bulky air cooled one.

In my case I got about 400mhz increase going from High end air to high end water.........I dont know if thats "about the same"

400mhz is a pretty big increase if you ask me.

And everything is silent now.

[Locke]

I would say it depends on the fans you use and the radiator you choose and the performance you want. Generally water is quieter than air alone including the pump.

[voigts]

The big problem about air cooling is GPU cooling since it takes a while for after-market coolers to be released for new video cards.

Also it depends on how important looks for you are, because there is no doubt that water cooled system done right can look absolutely amazing compared to the bulky air cooled one.

And that is my main question. How loud/quite are the stock GPU coolers these days as there simply don't seem to be any good aftermarket GTX260+/ATI4870+ coolers. It seems most people are using the stock coolers, and I would like to know how loud they are in relation to quiet watercooling.


I am running the Swiftech MCP 655-B, even though the heat dump is a bit more, but I found it very quiet running on 12V. You can't even hear it over the fan. The fan is rated @ 12V 64cfm 14dbA, and I am running it near 5 volt.

The MCP655 is NOT a very quiet pump to me. It all depends on how much the noise bothers you. The MCP350 is a lot quieter than it.

[NaeKuh]

The MCP655 is NOT a very quiet pump to me. It all depends on how much the noise bothers you. The MCP350 is a lot quieter than it.

sub setting 3 it is... And its about as quiet as a 350 if not more..

[ShArKo]

Well i run my wc system with swiftech MCP655 and it´s very quiet. I use 2 12cm fan for my radiator and they are quiet but if I increase the RPM the noise is annoying. My CPU and my GPU are cooling by Apogee GT and MCW60. My Temps: 37ºc (CPU) 30ºc (GPU)

I prefer WC more than air cooling. The WC is more quiet, more cool and it make you PC more beautiful jejejeje

[MpG]

These days, you can do some pretty substantial cooling with a tower heatsink and an 800rpm fan, even with an i7 chip. You have to push the chip fairly hard before you finally hit the point where watercooling pulls ahead, noise-wise. Not that watercooling doesn't come with its own fun and benefits, but I think there's a fair number of people who watercool for silence, when some careful design and selection of parts could have gotten them similar noise levels with air.

[Noisy]

The MCP655 is NOT a very quiet pump to me. It all depends on how much the noise bothers you. The MCP350 is a lot quieter than it.

May be because I did not physically connect the pump to a hard point.
I have also tried the DD CPX-Pro under the same mounting condition. The CPX-Pro make a lot more vibration induced noise. For the MCP655-B I have, may be it is because it is balanced better then other unit, there is no vibration related noise, nor do I hear any high pitch noise.

[mojododo]

same here, the only time i can even tell my pump is on, is the rae occaision a tiny bubble passes through it. the only other way i know is temps are good and physically touching it. though my pump has been well accoustic and vibration dampened from my case. this is tested with pump only thing on, using a spare psu.

[migueld]

I'm in a similar situation but I've already decided to go back to air. I want silence and I don't overclock, and I found that my DDC even with a top and dampening etc, made a sound that it's distinctive. It's a bit sad to let go of all the amazing engineering in water cooling, and so much time invested, but for my needs air is probably going to be a better fit.

I've been researching a lot at www.silentpcreview.com, and wow those guys aim at ~16-19db of sound!! If following their advice don't get me a quiet rig, then I don't know what will. I'm going air and I'm predicting that it'll be quieter, we'll see :)

[Dreddy71]

Stock gpu coolers? well, with 4890s there much louder than the d5 pump i got (non vario), at stock speeds. you could manually turn it down but... temps shoot up as it gets quite. by far the noisiest thing youll have. possibly louder than a loosly mounted raptor hdd vibrating all over the place.

[WeeMaan]

My i7 rig was quieter with aircooling, but my D0 chip @ 4,2ghz went past the 90s when running linx.
Now it stays in the low 60s.

It's the pump that is the biggest noise factor, can't stand my 355 it is way to load for me.
Havn't had time to mod it to a 350 yet but i will, soon.

[Hondacity]

I'm in a similar situation but I've already decided to go back to air. I want silence and I don't overclock, and I found that my DDC even with a top and dampening etc, made a sound that it's distinctive. It's a bit sad to let go of all the amazing engineering in water cooling, and so much time invested, but for my needs air is probably going to be a better fit.

I've been researching a lot at www.silentpcreview.com, and wow those guys aim at ~16-19db of sound!! If following their advice don't get me a quiet rig, then I don't know what will. I'm going air and I'm predicting that it'll be quieter, we'll see :)

theyre extreme i tell you:up:

[Jah]

If your main goal i silence, and you are not prepared to move the rads/pumps to a location where you cant hear the noise, you can have it really quiet on air but you loose a ton of performance. You can build a reasonable PC without any moving parts if you put you mind to it, and don't mind the performance hit.
But there is just no way to go SLI/CF and heavy over clock on the CPU and stay quiet on air. You need significantly higher speed fans since you are stuck with a much smaller cooling are no mater how you do.

High end air you get the equivalent of 1x120 fan of cooling area on the CPU, High end water you just slap a tripplerad on it ;) And just don't think about cooling high end GPU:s quietly.

As a note a 10W DDC is quite a bit less noisy then the 18W one, and the mod is easy enough.

[Noisy]

aim at ~16-19db of sound!! If following their advice don't get me a quiet rig, then I don't know what will.

this will http://www.devhardware.com/c/a/Computer-Cases/Zalman-TNN-500A-Fanless-PC-Case-Review/

[voigts]

I'm in a similar situation but I've already decided to go back to air. I want silence and I don't overclock, and I found that my DDC even with a top and dampening etc, made a sound that it's distinctive. It's a bit sad to let go of all the amazing engineering in water cooling, and so much time invested, but for my needs air is probably going to be a better fit.

I've been researching a lot at www.silentpcreview.com, and wow those guys aim at ~16-19db of sound!! If following their advice don't get me a quiet rig, then I don't know what will. I'm going air and I'm predicting that it'll be quieter, we'll see :)

As quite as the MCP350 is, I too notice that distinctive sound also. 16-19db seems unattainable if you are using current higher end components, particularly video cards. I don't use the latest and greatest always, but I don't like having a dinosaur for a GPU either.


Stock gpu coolers? well, with 4890s there much louder than the d5 pump i got (non vario), at stock speeds. you could manually turn it down but... temps shoot up as it gets quite. by far the noisiest thing youll have. possibly louder than a loosly mounted raptor hdd vibrating all over the place.

This is what I thought would be the case, and if they are that loud, I wouldn't be satisfied with the stock coolers.

Even though the MCP350 is a pretty quiet pump, maybe I would be happier if at some point I broke down and bought an even quieter pump like an Aqua Computer Aquastream XT. I haven't heard one personally, but have read that they are about the quietest yet decent performing pumps available.

I may also for now just drop down to one MCP350 and undervolt it to see how it sounds.

I had my computer down inside of a desk where the pump noise wasn't quite as noticeable, but after rearranging my desk area, now my computer sits about 2' from my head so any noise is more noticeable. I'm not the type to obsess on having a totally silent setup, but I would like to get it even quieter than it is now. I have my daughter's computer quiet with a passive GPU and a xigmatek s1283 on the CPU, and it is very quiet, but of course the GPU isn't high end.

[justin150]

I run two DB-1 pumps and cannot hear them. HD are encased (and WCd) so cannot hear them either. Only thing that makes a noise are the fans (6x120) and thats more of a gentle noise. Downside of my rig is that it is in a TJ-07 which has major air flow issues so I had to add fans on the memory

[dreamaxx]

My UPS is a noisy bastard so I don't care how loud my PC is!

In actual fact Pegasus CAN be nearly silent, just depends how fast the fans are going :)

[warriorpoet]

Voigts,

I'm a quiet nut (fans under 500 RPM, double-softmounted pump, PaxMate and all that jazz), and I can honestly say My MCP 355 double softmounted (UN bracket with rubber grommets on Gel Stuff) is inaudible in my p180.

Regarding VGA cards, I'm using a Sapphire Vapor-X 4890 on air right now until I get the time to setup the EK block, and it's as quiet as I've heard on stock air in a LONG time. I wouldn't record around it, but then I disconnect 2 of my 4 <500RPM 120mm fans when I do that too. ;)

I know your case looks awesome, but is it really optimized for quiet? It took some serious extra decoupling and PaxMate application before I was happy with my p180, and that's pretty well a legend in quiet PC circles stock. The question is, how much does the little extra noise bug you?

[warriorpoet]

...now my computer sits about 2' from my head so any noise is more noticeable...AHA!

I did the same thing and even at 300 RPM my Yates were too loud. Moved it back down to the floor and PRESTO!- sweet quiet :)

[NaeKuh]

My UPS is a noisy bastard so I don't care how loud my PC is!

In actual fact Pegasus CAN be nearly silent, just depends how fast the fans are going :)

oh yeah!!

Nadeshiko can be completely silent..
Just depends on if she's finished or not. :rofl:

[iandh]

It's kind of hard for me to justify water at the moment, my 720BE hits max OC (3.8Ghz 1.45v) on passive air (mugen 2) and never passes 50C in OCCT.

In that case, it's absolutely silent.

I really wish I had the money for a couple of SSD's and 5770 crossfire with Accelero S1's, that would be pretty much totally silent.

I also remember seeing a recent review about a new PSU that is able to run totally fanless at times, I forget which brand though.

[MpG]

That'll be Seasonic's new X-series (http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=169).

[voigts]

Voigts,

I'm a quiet nut (fans under 500 RPM, double-softmounted pump, PaxMate and all that jazz), and I can honestly say My MCP 355 double softmounted (UN bracket with rubber grommets on Gel Stuff) is inaudible in my p180.

Regarding VGA cards, I'm using a Sapphire Vapor-X 4890 on air right now until I get the time to setup the EK block, and it's as quiet as I've heard on stock air in a LONG time. I wouldn't record around it, but then I disconnect 2 of my 4 <500RPM 120mm fans when I do that too. ;)

I know your case looks awesome, but is it really optimized for quiet? It took some serious extra decoupling and PaxMate application before I was happy with my p180, and that's pretty well a legend in quiet PC circles stock. The question is, how much does the little extra noise bug you?

Optimizing for quiet really is something I should give more thought to the next time around that I design and build another case.

As for the Paxmate, I've done some reading around and from what I read anyway, the Paxmate doesn't do that much for absorbing noise. The review I read said that most noise comes out of the ventholes before/after the paxmate. The review I read also said that Paxmate is a dust magnet. Do you find this to be the case?

As for how much the noise bugs me, well, enough that I want to do something about it. My system is quiet enough that it probably wouldn't bug most people, but it does me.

It seems to me the more that I look around that the quiet aircooling solutions are a hit or miss deal as far as finding what will work with GPUs. All of the aftermarket coolers of course vent directly into the case. If I were to switch to air, I would want to design a case that isolates the GPU from the rest of the case so that it gets its own airflow. I realize that this is the case with most of the stock coolers now in that they exhaust out of the rear of the case. Good aircooling really isn't that cheap either. I can easily see plunking down $100+ between CPU and GPU. I also am not fond of the idea of having to put a cinderblock on my CPU just to cool it.

I found a listing for a new Aquastream XT Ultra on another forum that I'm buying. I'm going to give that pump a try as it is reviewed anywhere I can find as being very, very quiet. I figure I'll sell at least one of my MCP350/XSPC top pumps to offset it a bit. I've also got the soggy sandwich coming with it. I've wanted to give this pump a try for some time, so now is as good a time as any.

If this simply doesn't fit the bill, then maybe I'll look further at aircooling solutions.


That'll be Seasonic's new X-series (http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=169).

That sounds like an awesome PSU.

[warriorpoet]

...As for the Paxmate, I've done some reading around and from what I read anyway, the Paxmate doesn't do that much for absorbing noise. The review I read said that most noise comes out of the ventholes before/after the paxmate. The review I read also said that Paxmate is a dust magnet. Do you find this to be the case?...PaxMate is good for one thing, and one thing only: taking off that extra little "edge" that's always left over after careful component selection and airflow/ free air noise management. It's not an isolation box and doesn't do as much as some (most?) of its proponents hope. It is one of those "thousand papercuts" pieces I use as a very last measure.

Dust magnet? Not unless you put it in direct airflow, but then, almost anything becomes a dust magnet then.

Main reason I mentioned PaxMate is that it took all remaining noise off my pump after double-isolating it. I could barely hear it before, and now I can't. Biggest noise factor with those DDCs in my (limited) experience is vibration; take that away and you're nearly there.

[Waterlogged]

I've found Paxmate good for removing minor/mild case vibrations, and like wp above, setting the DDC on it does wonders for the noise I do hear from it. . .but that's about it. It will not stop airborne sound very well at all. For that, I've also used some 1" thick stuff from Mcmaster (#5692T49) which does reasonably well but still not perfect. Like you've found out through research, any holes or vent are a major source of noise transmission without some sort of baffling.

[kamieldehond]

water is and will always be more quiet then air, because with sufficient rads you dont need fans. you just need to isolate the pump enough.

[warriorpoet]

water is and will always be more quiet then air, because with sufficient rads you dont need fans. you just need to isolate the pump enough.

Yes, but sufficient can be impractical.

IMO, the main advantage of water cooling for silencing purposes is the ability to be flexible in radiator placement. You can setup a water cooled system to evacuate heat from inside the case far easier than with air. The typical advantages apply: reduction in fan speeds, removal of unnecessary fans (i.e. GPU, NB, RAM, CPU, etc.) and reduced isolation demands.

[eth0s]

Well if silence is your goal, then you are going to have to give up performance, regardless of whether you choose water or air. The first thing you need to do is to find out how much noise you can tolerate, in terms of decibels (dba). Here is a comparison chart I lifted from some other website:

140 dba = threshold of pain: gunshot, siren at 100 feet
135 dba = jet take off, amplified music
120 dba = chain saw, jack hammer, snowmobile
100 dba = tractor, farm equipment, power saw
90 dba = OSHA limit - hearing damage if excessive exposure to noise levels above 90 dBa (employer required to provide ear protection)
85 dba = inside acoustically insulated tractor cab
75 dba = average radio, vacuum cleaner
60 dba = normal conversation
45 dba = rustling leaves, soft music
30 dba = whisper
15 dba = threshold of hearing
0 dba = acute threshold of hearing - weakest sound

IMHO, those SilentPC boys are kidding themselves if they think they are going to build a decent computer that puts out a total of 16-19 dba, or less. How are you going to get that quiet? Your first problem is going to be the PSU. PSU fans are usually around 32 dba, just by themselves. Next problem is going to be your pump, and IMO the quietest option is probably going to be a Laing D5 vario, because you can turn it down. At setting "4", that pump produces 35 dba, so you'll need to turn it down to "1", "2" or maybe "3". Now for fans, I guess you'll be wanting them Gentle Typhoon 500 rpm jobbers (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185088), which are rated by the mfg'r at only 5 dba! (if you can trust those numbers, which you probably cannot). Anyway, adding logrythms, if you have 3 GT's @ 500 rpm, they would produce a total of 9.77 dba! Still mighty quiet. So I guess the quietest option is probably air cooling, since it saves you the noise of the pump. But if you mount the pump on silicone gel, and enclose it in a box with some sound insulation, it can be pretty quiet, too. Also if you add some of those passive radiators, and a passive radiator/ reservoir (even though they are aluminum), you might be able to get your cooling done without fans.

There are ways to insulate sound, and if you are really serious about a totally quiet computer, and since you are building the case yourself, you should be able to accomplish it. However, you are not going to get anywhere near top performance, because by reducing your noise level, you are going to reduce your cooling capacity at the same time. Anyway, like I said earlier, the first place to start is to find your noise tolerance, and design a case and system to fit that limit. Is your limit 19 dba? Really? Are you a hypersensitive librarian? Can you live with 30 dba? I personally have found that I find anything under 40 dba to be "quiet", while 42 dba and above sounds "annoying" to me, and above 50 dba is intolerable. But that's just me. You have to find your own level.

[warriorpoet]

I agree that extreme quiet makes some compromises, but in my experience it's not enough to really be noticeable. I mean, will I notice the difference in my C2Q 9550 at 3.2GHz vs. 3.4 or 3.6? Probably not. Will I notice my 4890 lagging at 965 core instead of 990? Probably not much.

Conversely, will I notice 24 Db vs 19 Db on a recording? You bet your boots.

PSU: now there's the Seasonic X series, but I find the PCP&C Silencer series is exceptional when fan modded. I have a 1200RPM 80mm fan in exhaust and the original (LOUD) fan soft-mounted to the front as intake inside the iso chamber at the bottom of my p180. It's not noticeable when placed (as I have it) in a corner on carpet. Same with the double-softmounted pump in a PaxMated box (p180 upper chamber) and the 300-500RPM fans. Noise management can be every bit as much about source placement and isolation as component selection.

[voigts]

I'm not the type that is after absolute hyper overclocked performance. I'm more the stable 24/7 overclocker. So I think that I can still find a way to get very good performance at a noise level and quality that doesn't bother me. I don't have to try to get 19db either, which I think is really a bit extreme. I don't exactly have a sound meter here, so I have no way to measure that, so I can only go by subjective measures.

In my daughter's comp I have a S1283 CPU cooler with a passive ATI4550 and a few undervolted d12sl-12 yates. It is quieter than mine, but more importantly, all you hear is a slight whoosh of air. It is the higher pitched whine that comes from the pumps on mine that bugs me.

I bought that Aquastream XT ($105 shipped for a brand new Ultra with adapters and soggy sandwich- talk about a good deal), and whenever I get it installed hopefully sometime next week I'll chime back on here as to the end result.

[aqualab]

I use a Thermalright ard2 on my 4890 card, the CPU is cooled by a Noctua Nh something. all that in a antec squeleton, I barely hear something.

[warriorpoet]

...I don't have to try to get 19db either, which I think is really a bit extreme...

So's $300/hr. in a decent recording studio :D