Best P4 DDR Board

[Obscure]

Hey Guys,

Im picking up a P4 2.26b cpu soon and was wondering what is the best P4 DDR motherboard on the market right now. If it has RAID, USB2.0 and any other goodies that come with it, that's fine.


Thanks,

[PiLsY]

Abit IT7 :).

PiLsY.

[Charles Wirth]

IT7 Max or IT7 Max2 by far, all the newest features and a very nice overclocker.

Quite a few IT7 's on page one one madonion.com including mine.

[Jupiler]

Gonna pick up an IT7 Max today. Hope it works out fine but I think it should, after reading all the positive comments about this board.

[NoStra]

Why not a BD7-II? Almost the same...but much cheaper!

[Hardass]

Originally posted by Obscure
Hey Guys,

Im picking up a P4 2.26b cpu soon and was wondering what is the best P4 DDR motherboard on the market right now. If it has RAID, USB2.0 and any other goodies that come with it, that's fine.


Thanks,
Welcome to Xtreme.

[PiLsY]

Originally posted by NoStra
Why not a BD7-II? Almost the same...but much cheaper!

Cos the BD7-2 sucks :rolleyes:. 4 channel raid on the IT7, firewire on the it7, 10 USB 2.0 ports on the IT7, 6 channel onboard sound on the IT7 (if thats what floats your boat) compared to the BD7-2's onboard lan and 2 channel audio. Thats without even mentioning the 2.7v (2.65v actual) ddr voltage limit on the BD7-2, and the VERY poor 12v line. That alone is good enough reason to go for the IT7, but with all the additional features mentioned above all for a very low price difference youd be a fool not to.

PiLsY.

[Charles Wirth]

IT7 also has built in 10/100 lan

[Obscure]

Thanks guys... im gonna pick up the IT7... now one more question... what are your thoughts on this Geil PC3500 DDR ram?

[Chong345]

read this.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2206

[Bravo]

Originally posted by PiLsY


Cos the BD7-2 sucks :rolleyes:. 4 channel raid on the IT7, firewire on the it7, 10 USB 2.0 ports on the IT7, 6 channel onboard sound on the IT7 (if thats what floats your boat) compared to the BD7-2's onboard lan and 2 channel audio. Thats without even mentioning the 2.7v (2.65v actual) ddr voltage limit on the BD7-2, and the VERY poor 12v line. That alone is good enough reason to go for the IT7, but with all the additional features mentioned above all for a very low price difference youd be a fool not to.

PiLsY.

I have never felt the need to correct you as powerful as now.

1. The BD7-II is almost 150 dollars cheaper then the IT7 in Australia.
2. The RAID component is featured on the BD7-II, and its model is called BD7-II RAID. It sells for 295 AUD here, The IT7 being 450 dollars.
3. Who the hell uses more then 2 USB ports? As much as i hate the things (they limit/restrict overclocking on AMD based boards), i've only got a mouse that uses it. Given the advantages of using USB2.0 over USB1.0, and the cost implied of using scanners/printers/modems via USB port, any idiot would be a fool to use them while benchmarking. My PS2 mouse/keyboard continue to serve me well after 3 years of continuous use.
4. Chainbolt has tested 4 boards, and found no voltage differential operating across them. The power supplies people use when "complaining" their boards are crap are either A) untested B) generic pieces of crap C) unused to a 12v load (which, given a period of 6 months with use on an AMD system, seriously screws with your 12v line when you finally use it on an intel system).
5. The DDR voltage is not a problem, in many cases, how many people have actually had a benefit of testing their IT7 with 2.65v and see how far it overclocks? I can bet you the difference will be 0 between the two boards, at the same voltage. The BD7-II is not hampered by the lack of overvoltage for DDR either. Chainbolt, and myself, have both had sticks of Samsung CTL 'C' revision chips up to 220 mhz and above (the highest being 235).

PiLsY, for you to prove me wrong on any of the points above, i would like to see links before you recommend one board over another. Now i will ask the more important question, have you had both boards side by side, tested, and found anything inferior about either of them? I sure as hell havent.

[chainbolt]

Originally posted by PiLsY


Cos the BD7-2 sucks :rolleyes:. 4 channel raid on the IT7, firewire on the it7, 10 USB 2.0 ports on the IT7, 6 channel onboard sound on the IT7 (if thats what floats your boat) compared to the BD7-2's onboard lan and 2 channel audio. Thats without even mentioning the 2.7v (2.65v actual) ddr voltage limit on the BD7-2, and the VERY poor 12v line. That alone is good enough reason to go for the IT7, but with all the additional features mentioned above all for a very low price difference youd be a fool not to.

PiLsY.

If something is sucking, then it is such an unqualified opinion.

The undervolting is C O M P L E T E L Y irrelevant, because it's only a read out. There are hundreds of ppl who get their P4 2.26 above, aircooled, to 3000Mhz and even 3100 MHz.

Here is a 500 post thread where actual BD7-II users are reporting, please read it careful. http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63738

The very expensive "addtitonal" features on the IT7 are nice, but I do not need as SINGLE of them: I need:

- RAID
- LAN
- 6-channel sound

Exactly that is what I get with the BD7-II RAID, I don't need legacy free, because USB is sucking. And if you don't need RAID, you can get the BD7-II, that board cost here 100 USD. There is no better deal for a P4 board currently. I don't say that the IT7 is "bad" or sucking, but locking here around at vendors it seems it's a kind of slow moving item, because of the heavy price. The IT7 is simply too expensive.

And if you want to see a qualified opinion about the BD7-II, read this and then show YOUR benchmarks if you think your IT7 (with the same chipset) can do it better :)

http://www.overclockers.com.au/article.php?id=78544

[Charles Wirth]

read this and then show YOUR benchmarks if you think your IT7 (with the same chipset) can do it better :)

http://www.overclockers.com.au/article.php?id=78544 [/B]

My Benchmark (http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=4153327)

By far the IT7 is the best system I have owned. USB is fine if you plan ahead for it.

[chainbolt]

Originally posted by FUGGER


My Benchmark (http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=4153327)

By far the IT7 is the best system I have owned. USB is fine if you plan ahead for it.

Thank you: but this is a ORB entry for 3DMark 2001. This is testing the video subsystem, 3DM2001 is not testing the overall system performance. What you get tested is mostly your vid card, and only to a lesser part the board/chispet.

I think it's necessary to run a little bit more than a freeware toy like 3DM2001 to judge overall system performance with a given mainboard.

Aagain: the IT7 is a good choice when you need 4-channel RAID and Firewire and you have already a USB keyboard. Otherwise not, because you get the same performance MUCH cheaper with the BD7-II.

[Charles Wirth]

Ok, twist my arm Sandra @ 3140 (http://fugger.netfirms.com/3140.htm) with memory at 2.5-6-2-2

More? I got more.

[Charles Wirth]

So you do not get confused, that is a 24/7 system.

[Charles Wirth]

I cannot edit my posts, "You do not have permission to access this page. "

Correct Link (http://fugger.netfirms.com/3140sandra.htm)

[chainbolt]

Originally posted by FUGGER
Ok, twist my arm Sandra @ 3140 (http://fugger.netfirms.com/3140.htm) with memory at 2.5-6-2-2

More? I got more.

Fugger at what FSB do you get 3140? What RAM are you using? The IT7 and the BD7-II have exactly the same chipset, excatly the same memory controller. What you have is a natural variation between samples, something of up to 5 % when using exactly the same CPU/RAM/OS/settings on a different board, that's all.

[NoStra]

That is why I would choose de BD7-II...

I DON'T have an USB keyboard...and am not planning to buy an USB-version.
I DON'T need all those USB ports, I only use 2 of them.
I have a perfect soundcard, so I won't need the 6 channels onboard soundcard of the IT7.
Same for the LAN onboard...but that is also included with the BD7-II right?

I just need the BD7-II and not the IT7. Much cheaper, the same performance and for me it has everything that I need.

[chainbolt]

Originally posted by NoStra
That is why I would choose de BD7-II...

I DON'T have an USB keyboard...and am not planning to buy an USB-version.
I DON'T need all those USB ports, I only use 2 of them.
I have a perfect soundcard, so I won't need the 6 channels onboard soundcard of the IT7.
Same for the LAN onboard...but that is also included with the BD7-II right?

I just need the BD7-II and not the IT7. Much cheaper, the same performance and for me it has everything that I need.

That is what most ppl say all along, performance wise both boards are identical, they have the same memory controller. On both board you get a max bandwidht of around 3500~3700 MB/sec depending on your sample and the RAM you use. If you don' need Firewire and 4-channel RAID, and you don't want to buy a USB keyboard, you better take the BD7-II, it's the better choice.

The BD7-II has 6-channel sound and LAN
The BD7-II RAID has additionally the HPT 372 2-channel controller.

The non RAID version is here 100 USD, cheap like dirt. It's an absolutely stable and high performing platform. Most users can run their P4 2.26 on this board between 3000 and 3100 MHz. (see the thread link to OCAU). The only little hick-up is the undervolting but that seems to be only a read-out issue, because otherwise ppl could not take their CPU so high on this board. My 2.26 makes it aircooled with the Intel stock cooler to 3070 Mhz and vapochilled to around 3260 Mhz.

[NoStra]

Here in Holland you can buy the BD7-II non raid for 134 euro's ( a dollar is allmost worth a euro), that's the bottomprice. The raid version costs 149 euro's.
The IT7max costs here 219 euro's. So I call that a pretty big price difference between those 2 boards. Especially of you don't need all those fancy addons..

Maybe in the US the boards don't differ that much in price...but here they do....

[chainbolt]

Originally posted by NoStra
Here in Holland you can buy the BD7-II non raid for 134 euro's ( a dollar is allmost worth a euro), that's the bottomprice. The raid version costs 149 euro's.
The IT7max costs here 219 euro's. So I call that a pretty big price difference between those 2 boards. Especially of you don't need all those fancy addons..

Maybe in the US the boards don't differ that much in price...but here they do....

That's interesting the non-RAID version is here (Tokyo) around 105 USD, the RAID version 130 USD, and the IT7 is 200 USD. The IT7 is really not selling well. I think it's worthwhile if you need the on-board stuff, a 4-channel RAID card cost here around 90 USD and a comnined Firewire (4 ports) and USB 2.0 (6 ports) card around 30 USD. But who needs 4-channel RAID?

[shadco]

But who needs 4-channel RAID?

Consider this config.

IDE1 CDRW
IDE 2 DVDROM
IDE 3 boot hd
IDE 4 RAID 0 HD
IDE 5 RAID 0 HD

There is one use for example.

Then there is this using plain old Samsung PC2700 (http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddr333/it7/IT7178-234mem.jpg).

Shad

[chainbolt]

Originally posted by shadco


Consider this config.

IDE1 CDRW
IDE 2 DVDROM
IDE 3 boot hd
IDE 4 RAID 0 HD
IDE 5 RAID 0 HD

There is one use for example.

Then there is this using plain old Samsung PC2700 (http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ddr333/it7/IT7178-234mem.jpg).

Shad

Shadco: I am using Raid 0 since 1 year, I have the TX/4 and the HPT 324.

http://www.overclockers.com.au/techstuff/a_hdd_shootout/
http://www.overclockers.com.au/techstuff/a_raid0_ata133/

And for somebody who needs 4-channel RAID the old (not the new) IT7 is OF COURSE a consideration. However for the 100 USD price difference between the BD7-II non RAID version and the IT7 I can almost buy a stand alone 4-channel RAID controller, and that would be the better solution.

[Creative]

Chainbolt BD7-II Raid has 2 channel sound dood and it doesnt even work on my mobo even at 133fsb default cpu speeds. :(:(

I am changing to the IT7 cos im sick of this BD7 POS undervolting and only giving me maximum 1.67 for the vdimm. I need those volts so I will pay the premium...simple.....and even though the boards are 99.9 similar I do think the IT7 is faster...just look at everyones results.....and I do think the extra vdimm volts are gonna help me...:)


And no i dont think its a read out error cos my pc will just reboot itself and o other wierd things.....IT7 for me this weekend....:D

Sif care about the cost ;)

[Charles Wirth]

Creative, good choice as you are about to find out.

Chainbolt 174FSB i think, memory was 3:4 ratio

[shadco]

IT7 for me this weekend....

Be sure to get your hands on the 8Z bios.

Shad

[chainbolt]

Originally posted by Creative
Chainbolt BD7-II Raid has 2 channel sound dood and it doesnt even work on my mobo even at 133fsb default cpu speeds. :(:(

I am changing to the IT7 cos im sick of this BD7 POS undervolting and only giving me maximum 1.67 for the vdimm. I need those volts so I will pay the premium...simple.....and even though the boards are 99.9 similar I do think the IT7 is faster...just look at everyones results.....and I do think the extra vdimm volts are gonna help me...:)


And no i dont think its a read out error cos my pc will just reboot itself and o other wierd things.....IT7 for me this weekend....:D

Sif care about the cost ;)

Creative, dood:

Amazing: you have the BD7-II? I dont think so, you may wish to consult page 1-2 of the manual, and read a little about the 6-channel sound this board has. Maybe you have not installed the drivers/utililty to enable it? It's actually quite good sound.

How fast a board is is certainly not determind by Sandra memory benchs, but only by actual applications. I am not aware of any difference between the IT7 and the BD7-II in this regard. I stay corrected if somebody is posting his benchs here, Sysmark, Content Creation, Business Winstone etc, time demos. Anything else is regarded as the usual proud owner blablabla.

The voltage reading of the BD7-II, you know already what I think about this.... at both boards, the IT7 and the BD7 you can oc a 2.26 to around 3100 + aircooled and around 3300 vapochilled. I don't see the slightest difference here.

As you know, I have 3 BD7-II up and running, they are all undevolting, but none of them is rebooting or doing any "wierd" things. Either your hardware or software set-up is screwd, or you got a bad sample. :)

[Creative]

Chainbolt dood :D

I swear on some reviews on the net when I was looking for if it was 2 ch or 6 ch said it was 2 ch.....hmmmm but on the Abit site itself on the BD7II-Raid specs it says this

Audio
AC'97 2-ch Audio CODEC on board
taken from here http://www.abit.com.tw/abitweb/webjsp/english/pt_main_back.jsp?pPRODUCT_TYPE=MotherBoard&pMODEL_NAME=BD7II-RAID

In the manual it says 6 channel but here it says 2 ch....or am I reading it wrong? I did install the drivers and stuff from the cd and enabled Auto in the bios but still no go.....:(

So is it 6ch or 2ch?
heheheh

[PiLsY]

Ok then here we go :). I like a challenge :).

First off - yes I have had both boards :).

The vDDR thing - certainly with the samsung 333 modules most people find the sweet spot to be around 2.88v. The BD7-2 was a full 0.2v under this. I am not questioning that it is very efficient with ddr voltage, just that basically everyone could get higher with more voltage. For example, my limit on the BD7-ii was 224mhz, on the IT7 its 248mhz atm using 2.92v. Speaks for itself :).

The raid features are NOT the same. The IT7 has 4 channel raid, the BD7-ii has 2 channel raid. Were talking double the bandwidth (well about 60%extra) when using all 4 channels (which I am :)). I find it a very viable option to run 8 low capacity drives (maxtor 20gb 5400 rpm low profile silent drives) and have the ub3r speed usually associated with the more expensive and noisy 7200rpm drives. Also works out very cheap too.

USB ports - im currently using over 10 USB devices. Hell ive even got a usb hub plugged in. It doesnt affect my system performance or overclocking in any way at all. All benches are pretty much identical witha ll my USB stuff running. USB 2 is important if you use the likes of an external CDRW, external HDD etc. Admittedly not many people do at the moment, but this is the way technology is heading. i dont see th point in NOT having the latest standard, especially on a legacy free board.

Compared to my IT7 the BD7-ii was about 0.3v lower on the 12v line and 0.2v higher on the 5v line. This is using identical components and power supply. It meant my 12v line and 5v line under load once adjusted were around 5.5 and 11.9v. I dont have a cheap, crap or generic PSU either, ive got an Enhance ENS0246 - imo the best PSU we can buy here in europe. Ive tested all sorts of PSUs over the last year, including the antec 550, enermax 551 and several macron and sparkle PSUs, this one came out on top by quite a margin. On the IT7 my voltages are 5.2 / 12.04 under load. A much better voltage subsytem if you ask me :).

Price - here in the UK the IT7 can be had for £120. The BD7-ii raid is £104. Thats a difference of £16 or 22 euros. Very little. 3 packs of cigarettes and a pint of beer ;). I can fully appreciate price differences may be higher elsewhere, but I personally (having used the IT7) would spend the extra to get the best. I feel this board could quite easily outlive the BD7-ii by a good months or so (if I didnt always have to have the fastest board out that is :p) due to all the extra little features.

Chainbolt - your comment about USB sucking is one thing I dont understand. I dont find anything wrong with USB at all - infact I love it. Its much easier to use, hot swapping is invaluable and driver support for a USB platform is always better. For instance, ill list my USB devices below.

Mouse
Keyboard (costs £12 so the argument about buying a USB keyboard is pretty pointless :p).
Smart reader
Camera
Scanner
Printer
CDRW
USB Light (handy for working in the pc ;))
SB Extigy
MP3 player
Digital camcorder
Abit Media XP drive bay (runs off usb header on board)

I can run all of these devices plugged in and operating at once (admittedly I use my 4 port usb hub) and not lose a single mhz FSB and stay within +-30 points of my normal 3dmark score on my general use OS partition.

The BD7 for me gave me over 120mhz less on cpu than the IT7. Not to mention being able to run cas 2 20mhz higher on the memory due to the extra voltage.

I should also point ot that the early BD7-iis had 2 channel sound (alc350, not 650). I wasnt aware the newer boards had the ALC650 codec. However, the IT7 has the 6 channel audio without losing the mic and line in ports (useful if you play games using chat programs).

The only problem with both the IT7 and BD7-ii that I and many other people found was that the onboard audio wont work at any PCi frequency other than 33mhz. Less of a problem for me due to the extigy, but annoying none the less.



To sum up then, yes the IT7 is more expensive than the BD7. If you dont want to clock to the max, and arent bothered about losing 8 usb ports, firewire, full 6 channel sound (ie not shared ports), 4 channel usb, 0.6v ddr voltage, more voltage loss on 5v and 12v lines then sure buy the BD7. Its a great board, im not debating that. I just KNOW the IT7 is better. having used the 2 boards in the same system I can 100% guarantee the IT7 is faster, simply because of the extra ddr volts allowing me to run higher FSB at 3:4 ratio.

The original question was what is the best p4 board. Not what is the best value, just the best. And without a shoadow of a doubt its the IT7.

I should just add chainbolt that dismissing peoples opinions as just proud owner blablabla is something I find very offensive. In such light I shall now dismiss all your comments about the BD7 as proud owner blablabla.

PiLsY.

[NoStra]

OK pilsy....you are getting me warm for the IT7... Cause is see that all the guys that run 230Mhz RAM+ have an IT7 and not a BD7-II. The guys with a BD7-II all max out at +-225Mhz. Strange but true....same chipset, different scores! Maybe the IT7 is really better? :)
The only problem for me right now is my ps2 keyboard. Can I buy a ps2-to-USB plug? Do they exist?

[majormav]

only one to choose in my book its the ABIT IT7 without a doubt

[chainbolt]

Originally posted by Creative
Chainbolt dood :D

I swear on some reviews on the net when I was looking for if it was 2 ch or 6 ch said it was 2 ch.....hmmmm but on the Abit site itself on the BD7II-Raid specs it says this
taken from here http://www.abit.com.tw/abitweb/webjsp/english/pt_main_back.jsp?pPRODUCT_TYPE=MotherBoard&pMODEL_NAME=BD7II-RAID

In the manual it says 6 channel but here it says 2 ch....or am I reading it wrong? I did install the drivers and stuff from the cd and enabled Auto in the bios but still no go.....:(

So is it 6ch or 2ch?
heheheh

Each AND every BD7-II has 6-channel sound. That includes yours. It's speaks for the review when the reviewer is not even capable of understanding how to install the 6-channel sound utility (to enable 6-channel) or to read manual :)

[chainbolt]

Originally posted by PiLsY
Ok then here we go :). I like a challenge :).

First off - yes I have had both boards :).

The vDDR thing - certainly with the samsung 333 modules most people find the sweet spot to be around 2.88v. The BD7-2 was a full 0.2v under this. I am not questioning that it is very efficient with ddr voltage, just that basically everyone could get higher with more voltage. For example, my limit on the BD7-ii was 224mhz, on the IT7 its 248mhz atm using 2.92v. Speaks for itself :).

The raid features are NOT the same. The IT7 has 4 channel raid, the BD7-ii has 2 channel raid. Were talking double the bandwidth (well about 60%extra) when using all 4 channels (which I am :)). I find it a very viable option to run 8 low capacity drives (maxtor 20gb 5400 rpm low profile silent drives) and have the ub3r speed usually associated with the more expensive and noisy 7200rpm drives. Also works out very cheap too.

USB ports - im currently using over 10 USB devices. Hell ive even got a usb hub plugged in. It doesnt affect my system performance or overclocking in any way at all. All benches are pretty much identical witha ll my USB stuff running. USB 2 is important if you use the likes of an external CDRW, external HDD etc. Admittedly not many people do at the moment, but this is the way technology is heading. i dont see th point in NOT having the latest standard, especially on a legacy free board.

Compared to my IT7 the BD7-ii was about 0.3v lower on the 12v line and 0.2v higher on the 5v line. This is using identical components and power supply. It meant my 12v line and 5v line under load once adjusted were around 5.5 and 11.9v. I dont have a cheap, crap or generic PSU either, ive got an Enhance ENS0246 - imo the best PSU we can buy here in europe. Ive tested all sorts of PSUs over the last year, including the antec 550, enermax 551 and several macron and sparkle PSUs, this one came out on top by quite a margin. On the IT7 my voltages are 5.2 / 12.04 under load. A much better voltage subsytem if you ask me :).

Price - here in the UK the IT7 can be had for £120. The BD7-ii raid is £104. Thats a difference of £16 or 22 euros. Very little. 3 packs of cigarettes and a pint of beer ;). I can fully appreciate price differences may be higher elsewhere, but I personally (having used the IT7) would spend the extra to get the best. I feel this board could quite easily outlive the BD7-ii by a good months or so (if I didnt always have to have the fastest board out that is :p) due to all the extra little features.

Chainbolt - your comment about USB sucking is one thing I dont understand. I dont find anything wrong with USB at all - infact I love it. Its much easier to use, hot swapping is invaluable and driver support for a USB platform is always better. For instance, ill list my USB devices below.

Mouse
Keyboard (costs £12 so the argument about buying a USB keyboard is pretty pointless :p).
Smart reader
Camera
Scanner
Printer
CDRW
USB Light (handy for working in the pc ;))
SB Extigy
MP3 player
Digital camcorder
Abit Media XP drive bay (runs off usb header on board)

I can run all of these devices plugged in and operating at once (admittedly I use my 4 port usb hub) and not lose a single mhz FSB and stay within +-30 points of my normal 3dmark score on my general use OS partition.

The BD7 for me gave me over 120mhz less on cpu than the IT7. Not to mention being able to run cas 2 20mhz higher on the memory due to the extra voltage.

I should also point ot that the early BD7-iis had 2 channel sound (alc350, not 650). I wasnt aware the newer boards had the ALC650 codec. However, the IT7 has the 6 channel audio without losing the mic and line in ports (useful if you play games using chat programs).

The only problem with both the IT7 and BD7-ii that I and many other people found was that the onboard audio wont work at any PCi frequency other than 33mhz. Less of a problem for me due to the extigy, but annoying none the less.



To sum up then, yes the IT7 is more expensive than the BD7. If you dont want to clock to the max, and arent bothered about losing 8 usb ports, firewire, full 6 channel sound (ie not shared ports), 4 channel usb, 0.6v ddr voltage, more voltage loss on 5v and 12v lines then sure buy the BD7. Its a great board, im not debating that. I just KNOW the IT7 is better. having used the 2 boards in the same system I can 100% guarantee the IT7 is faster, simply because of the extra ddr volts allowing me to run higher FSB at 3:4 ratio.

The original question was what is the best p4 board. Not what is the best value, just the best. And without a shoadow of a doubt its the IT7.

I should just add chainbolt that dismissing peoples opinions as just proud owner blablabla is something I find very offensive. In such light I shall now dismiss all your comments about the BD7 as proud owner blablabla.

PiLsY.

PiLsY: we are repeating ourselves: in order to convince me please show benchmarks which show the overall system performance in dependecy from the CPU and the chipset, such as Sysmark, Business Winstone, Content Creation or whatever.

The undervolting is IRRELVANT (or only a read out issue) as long as it is not hampering overclocking. Please, show me that you can take a 2.26 higher on a IT7 then a BD7-II. As I said the 2.26 goes aircooled to 3100 Mhz on the BD7-II.

Again: this 2 things are requested: System performance benchs and CPU overlocking results which show that the IT7 is BETTER, and not only by a few random points.

The updated version of the IT7 (max) does not have 4-channel RAID anymore, by the way. I think this discussion is going nowhere, we are is only repeating our points.

And honestly: I would NOW not take either of them, because the first SiS648 boards (Asus) are already in the retail pipeline, and that is not only cheaper, but most probably also a better solution.
At least I would wait.

[NoStra]

Don't those sis boards have FSB issues? In 1 review they couldn't take it higher than 148Mhz... Not a good deal for an OCer..

[chainbolt]

Originally posted by NoStra
Don't those sis boards have FSB issues? In 1 review they couldn't take it higher than 148Mhz... Not a good deal for an OCer..

This is the NEW SiS684 chipset with SATA and AGP 8 and a new memory controller, such boards are not yet in the market, only reference boards for previews. It looks like the SiS648 is a few points faster than the 845E based BD7 and IT7. Some say (e.g. THG) it gives bandwidth close to RDRAM, which I don't believe. But for sure it's better than the 845E. That is the result of all previews. The first boards will retail in a very short while. Vendors are already displaying the Asus P4S8X here. (preview of this board here: http://www.ocworkbench.com/2002/asus/p4s8x/p4s8xp3.htm

For somebody NOW buying, the BD7 or the IT7 are the best, but if you can wait 2 or 3 weeks, don't. The new vidcards like the Radeon 9700 which is already on sales here are all coming with AGP8, and that does not work with the IT7 or the BD7. Also no SATA is availbale.

Here is a direct (realistic) comparo SiS648 with 845E
http://www.a1-electronics.co.uk/Intel_Section/Chipsets/P4North533/SiS_648_Aug02.shtml

The difference is small but there.

[NoStra]

I have seen the bench...but the Sis chipset only performance better when it is set to DDR400. When you will set the DDR memory to 200Mhz on (for example) a BD7-II, then you will get the same performance! Cause it performs the same as DDR333 on the BD7-II when the Sis is also set to DDR333. Or is my explanation not right?
And the advantage of AGP8x.... If it will be the same advantage as the jump from AGP2x to AGP4x then I won't need AGP8x. Only 1 or 2 FPS extra isn't a great advantage...

[chainbolt]

Originally posted by NoStra
I have seen the bench...but the Sis chipset only performance better when it is set to DDR400. When you will set the DDR memory to 200Mhz on (for example) a BD7-II, then you will get the same performance! Cause it performs the same as DDR333 on the BD7-II when the Sis is also set to DDR333. Or is my explanation not right?
And the advantage of AGP8x.... If it will be the same advantage as the jump from AGP2x to AGP4x then I won't need AGP8x. Only 1 or 2 FPS extra isn't a great advantage...

not exactly, because in this comparo the BD7 is NOT running with DDR333, it's higher, beause they set the CPU/RAM ratio to 3:4 and that results in more than DDR333. Check it ...:) And it is not only AGP 8, also SATA, the SiS648 has more. In a few months all new HDD will come with SATA. If you change your board every 2 or 3 months, I agree, it does not matter. but if you want to keep it, let's say for half a year or even longer, I would not buy a 845E or G board now.

[NoStra]

Yeah I saw the DDR354Mhz...but when you do some math...
The DDR 333 score will look like this 2538/2537 vs the sis score of 2554/2555. Not such a big deal right? Those 16/18points aren't worth waiting for me....

[Obscure]

Apparently Serial ATA is overrated from what ive been reading on the net. Also, I ordered my IT7 and P4 2.26b. Picking it up on Monday. Ill let you guys know how it fares out. I can't wait!

[PiLsY]

Chainbolt - getting bored of this now.

I dont have sysmark etc, and frankly I dont see the point in dling them. If you want to talk real world then tbh you may as well get a P4S333 as in all honesty in games the it7 is only about 10fps faster - hardy noticeable when youre talking about over 200fps anyway.

As for clocking higher, ive already said in my previous post - the extra 0.6v vddr gained me another 10mhz fsb (13mhz ram) compared to the BD7-ii. I dont need to "proove it" at all. Its fact. Simple example - my 3dmark score is posted with the IT7, not the BD7.

You seem hung up on the fact that the BD7-ii is cheaper. If you cant affird the IT7 then fair play, buy the BD7-ii. As ive already stated its a damn fine board. fact is tho the IT7 is better. Youre the only one unable to see that. Quit with the blablabla and try the IT7 with some decent memory (winbond ddr400 for example) and youll notice that (surprise surprise) the extra 0.6v vddr makes a hell of a difference. Its a very newbie comment to say that more voltage doesnt make any difference. Of course it does :rolleyes:. Infact im now trying to find a vddr mod for the IT7 as ive been testing this winbond in my KX7333 and it works best at 3.32vddr. Gains me an extra couple of mhz fsb (3mhz ddr).

If youre not trying to clock as high as possible, you canta fford the extra outlay (minimal here in the UK), or you just plain dont want all the extra features then fine buy the BD7-ii. The original question was whats the best p4 ddr board, and thats the IT7. Period. Most features, most overclocking features and better voltages (even if they are only read outs - at least theyre accurate ffs!).

Now enough of this petty squabble.

PiLsY.

[chainbolt]

Originally posted by PiLsY
The original question was whats the best p4 ddr board, and thats the IT7. Period. Most features, most overclocking features and better voltages (even if they are only read outs - at least theyre accurate ffs!).

PiLsY.

You are simpy repeating what you have said before, seeing some evidence would make it easier to believe this.

[PiLsY]

Oh go away and bother someone else you cretin :rolleyes:

PiLsY.

[chainbolt]

Originally posted by PiLsY
Oh go away and bother someone else you cretin :rolleyes:

PiLsY.

dito:toast:

[MudWhistle]

Lol, chainbolt still wont let the IT7/BD7 debate die, you should of seen him at Icronic trying to convince the masses on how good the BD7II is when in reality he is just trying to justify the money HE spent on the BD7II. Face it Chainbolt, if you want the BEST PIV board on the market right now, the IT7 is the one to get. If i can find the post I will post it here on icronic about the BD7II and it's low mem DDR. I basically told everyone to quit whining and get an IT7 if you need the voltage. Oppainter had a BD7II back then and did just that, funny how far he can take ram on his IT7 board :)

[chainbolt]

Originally posted by MudWhistle
Lol, chainbolt still wont let the IT7/BD7 debate die, you should of seen him at Icronic trying to convince the masses on how good the BD7II is when in reality he is just trying to justify the money HE spent on the BD7II. Face it Chainbolt, if you want the BEST PIV board on the market right now, the IT7 is the one to get. If i can find the post I will post it here on icronic about the BD7II and it's low mem DDR. I basically told everyone to quit whining and get an IT7 if you need the voltage. Oppainter had a BD7II back then and did just that, funny how far he can take ram on his IT7 board :)

I am warming up on the IT7-II. That seems to be something interesting:

- no USB keyboard necessary anymore
- 2-channel instead of the (for many) useless 4-channel RAID
- "Serillel" connector, which means you can run your ATA disk on the SATA port
- cheaper than the IT7
- sexy black PCB

The only item missing is AGP 8x, but we still don't whether this is jus a marketing gimmik or for real.

[12Bravo]

ABIT IT7 MAX = $152
ABIT BD7II-RAID = $118

Prices are from newegg, think I'll take the IT7 and mark up the $34(USD) as the price of trying to quit smoking... :D

[chainbolt]

Originally posted by 12Bravo
ABIT IT7 MAX = $152
ABIT BD7II-RAID = $118

Prices are from newegg, think I'll take the IT7 and mark up the $34(USD) as the price of trying to quit smoking... :D

The IT7 II is probabaly a better choice now. It has better options, like the SERILLEL adaptor, a P2 ports, and a cool black PCB. And I think Abit is not producing the IT7 anymore.

[Ragnarok]

I'd be inclined towards the IT7Max 2 now as well...

Serial ATA alone is enough for me to choose it over the IT7Max

[zakelwe]

Unless you plan to upgrade again in November I suggest you wait till the E7205 based boards come out.

Regards


Andy

[chainbolt]

Originally posted by zakelwe
Unless you plan to upgrade again in November I suggest you wait till the E7205 based boards come out.

Regards


Andy

what is E7205? granit bay? Novmeber? that is 3 to 4 months! A little long to wait. And November might be a bad timing, because in December/January 2003 Intel is changing the socket it seems.

[zakelwe]

Originally posted by chainbolt


what is E7205? granit bay? Novmeber? that is 3 to 4 months! A little long to wait. And November might be a bad timing, because in December/January 2003 Intel is changing the socket it seems.

Yes, that is the workstatrion chipset formally known as Granite Bay ( to quote a phrase )

If it's too long to wait then go for a 850e 4.2GB bandwidth board now rather than a 3.2GB 200/400 Mhz DDR single channel solution now.

I can't see the point in a single channel PIV motherboard.

Regards

Andy

[chainbolt]

Originally posted by zakelwe


Yes, that is the workstatrion chipset formally known as Granite Bay ( to quote a phrase )

If it's too long to wait then go for a 850e 4.2GB bandwidth board now rather than a 3.2GB 200/400 Mhz DDR single channel solution now.

I can't see the point in a single channel PIV motherboard.

Regards

Andy

thanx, I have a P4T533, mine is doing 4300 MB/sec bandwidth. Screeshot is posted, if you please check it in this forum. I 100% agree on this, a 850E platform is much superior to any current DDR board. But most ppl here have DDR RAM and don't want to invest in RDRAM which will be discontinued in a while. Also: for overclocking DDR boards are better, and that is what most ppl have in mind.