5.1/7.1 Amp Seperate

[Daveburt714]

The owner of the company I work for redid his Home Theater and gave me a really nice B&K preamp. This thing cost over ~$2500 a few years ago and I would like to use it.
The only bad thing is a matching B&K Amp cost ALOT of money, even on EBay the cheapest I could find was $1000 used... :shocked:

If nothing else I'll try using it with my 5.1 Sony reciever, but I just wondered if anyone had any ideas for a nice/cheaper Amp seperate?

It supports ALL Dolby Formats plus THX and NEO6. One other question for anyone who might know, do you think it would be an improvement over my Sony Reciever even if I did have to use it's amp?

Thanks....... Dave

Heres a couple pics:

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c330/Daveburt/DSCN0372.jpg

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c330/Daveburt/DSCN0373.jpg

[jason str]

Find some used Adcom amps, you can usually find them for reasonable prices and they sound great.

I recommend the GFA 5400 (2 channel amp) if you can find one.

They make 2,3 and 5 channel models also.

Sell your sony to help pay for your new amps.

[EniGmA1987]

WOW. Thats really nice. One of those would be perfect for me. I dont use any HDMI, all component and optical or RCA analog inputs to my receiver. and I have all seperate professional grade amplifiers that have XLR inputs, so those XLR outputs on that amp would be perfect for me. No more suck RCA to XLR unbalanced cables. Ill have to look into getting one of those for me, or if you cant afford using it or end up not wanting it ill gladly take it off your hands.


As for it being an improvement over your Sony receiver, absolutely. Unfortunately the Sony would hold you back considerably. First because those balanced XLR outputs would have to be changed down to unbalanced RCA connectors to go in to the multichannel input on your Sony. Also, the amps inside your Sony are some hardcore suckage. You would be way better off buying a bunch of 2 channel amps and going straight from the XLR outputs on this unit to the power amplifiers. Unfortunately that can get pricy fast for some decent amps. A favorite among the garage band and home theater crowd (the midrange home theater, not the insane HT people) are Behringer power amps, the euro power line. They are fairly cheap power amps with decent power ratings. Or Peavey just came out with some new amps that are really cheap. However, they don't quite produce the full wattage they specify, but it still would do a lot better than your Sony.


EDIT: here are the cheapest amps you could get that are decent/good:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/IPR1600/
They say 1600w total, but in reality you will probably be getting about 350w per channel @ 4ohms. Again, you will need one of those amps for every 2 channels of audio you have. So if you run a 5.1 system you will need to buy 3 of those amps.

EDIT again: These would also work:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/XLS202/
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GX3/

However, I have had 2 Crown XLS series amps go bad on me (XLS602s), and 2 QSC amps go bad on me (an original PowerLight PLX3002 and a USA1310). Thus I no longer like to use those brands as much, however I do trust QSC more than Crown. Out of 30 QSC amps I have either owned or used in the past six years, 4 have gone bad. 3 out of 4 Crowns I have used or own have gone bad. I prefer Crest Audio and Lab Gruppen.

Oh and remember, if you cant afford to use this in your system or if you just dont want to, I will take it off your hands ;)

[Daveburt714]

Thanks for the info folks!

I hooked it up to my Sony for the time being (Multi In) and watched Transformers last night. All I can say is WOW... :clap:

Sounds much better than the Sony reciever itself, the seperation and crispness of the sound is amazing!

Buying amps is going to be a little pricey but I think I'm convinced it's worth it.

Any comments on these amps?
Technical Pro LZ-1100
http://www.abesofmaine.com/item=TPLZ1100~item.htm

My only consern would be the noise level of the amps, but I guess I could put them in a closet or something.

[jason str]

What kind of speakers are you running ?

The Adcom will be silent, they use fins for the heatsink.

Get some used stuff, a good quality used amp will be better than a bottom basement unit.

[EniGmA1987]

low quality amps are the worst investment you can do, I learned that first hand. I bought some cheap $120 amps rated for a little over 1000 watts, and they sound HORRIBLE. not only do they clip at extremely low volume levels, they cant produce anywhere near the power the amp is supposed to be rated for, and the signal sounds bad, especially the higher frequencies. Do yourself a favor and dont get anything except a real brand name companies amps.

QSC
Crown
Crest
SoundTech -> not a respected company, but oddly enough the best sounding amp I own.
Berhinger
Peavey
Yamaha
Mackie
Samson

are your "brand name" professional amps, although many of those are not great quality brands. I just listed all the main ones. Sure you can also get lots of smaller companies hifi home theater amps and they will sound amazing, but generally those cost a great deal of money and are probably out of your price range.

[Daveburt714]

Thanks for the heads up EniGmA1987. I was a little leary of those anyway. Actually I'm pretty impressed with the sound just using the Sony's amps, the quality is much better than using it's decoders/circuits.

I'm in the process of buying a house anyway so I need to save some cash.
I'll definetly keep an eye on Ebay and Craigslist in case something comes along though! :up:


What kind of speakers are you running ?


My speakers are all Infinity's.

SM112 towers for the mains
Center and rears are from a set of surround 750 series
and a 12" powered sub.

Guess you can tell I like Infinity.... :D

[Donnie27]

Thanks for the heads up EniGmA1987. I was a little leary of those anyway. Actually I'm pretty impressed with the sound just using the Sony's amps, the quality is much better than using it's decoders/circuits.

I'm in the process of buying a house anyway so I need to save some cash.
I'll definetly keep an eye on Ebay and Craigslist in case something comes along though! :up:

My speakers are all Infinity's.

SM112 towers for the mains
Center and rears are from a set of surround 750 series
and a 12" powered sub.

Guess you can tell I like Infinity.... :D

Carver-AV-505-5-Channel-Power-Amplifier-80w-x-5 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Carver-AV-505-5-Channel-Power-Amplifier-80w-x-5_W0QQitemZ380165442739QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Defau ltDomain_0?hash=item5883a04cb3)

Price: US $211.00 + $41.30 UPS GroundSee more services See discounts?

Don't be fooled by other so called named brands claiming to offer more wattage. Unless you intend to DJ for a nightclub, this real CLEAN 80 Watts per channel is more than enough to cause hearing loss.

Yes, the real AMP will kill that Sony.

[EniGmA1987]

That is a pretty nice amp, and cheap too! But no balanced inputs...

[jason str]

Great find on the Carver, they make respectable sounding amps.

Be sure to check your local Craigslist for local offers.

Marantz, Scott, Halfer, Rotel, Krell, are others to look out for.

Sometimes you can find some decent stuff on Audiogon for sale too.

[EniGmA1987]

Yes those are some pretty good home theater amplifier brands, but I would try and find one with balanced inputs. You have balanced XLR outputs on your high end HT processor, converting down to unbalanced signal will only bring down the quality of the signal itself and allow more chance of interference to affect it. Granted it will be a short cable run so you wont have much chance for interference to enter into the system though those cables, but it would still lower the integrity of the signal to change it from a high quality XLR connection to a regular old RCA.

[psyconut713]

http://www.emotiva.com/

great for the price, brand new

my buddy mixed this as his surround with his bryston for his mains

http://emotiva.com/xpa5.shtm

[EniGmA1987]

That xpa5 would be a great choice :)

[jason str]

Yes those are some pretty good home theater amplifier brands, but I would try and find one with balanced inputs. You have balanced XLR outputs on your high end HT processor, converting down to unbalanced signal will only bring down the quality of the signal itself and allow more chance of interference to affect it. Granted it will be a short cable run so you wont have much change for interference to enter into the system though those cables, but it would still lower the integrity of the signal to change it from a high quality XLR connection to a regular old RCA.

Home audio will not benefit much using XLR cables since the cables are much shorter and far less likely to pick up interference than the long runs that are used in professional applications, the amp itself will be much more of a factor in sound quality.

[EniGmA1987]

Home audio will not benefit much using XLR cables since the cables are much shorter and far less likely to pick up interference than the long runs that are used in professional applications, the amp itself will be much more of a factor in sound quality.

I realize that, but if the pre-amp is sending out a balanced signal, doesn't it have a signal level of +4dBv? and the unbalanced RCA inputs on some of the amps would have a signal level of -10dBv right? Wouldn't it be best to match the proper voltage/signal levels? If I remember right, it is almost a 12 decibel difference between those signal levels. Which since every 6dB is double the volume, if you were to go from those XLR outputs to the RCA inputs you would be halving your volume, and then halving it yet again giving you only 1/4 volume from if you had just stayed balanced the whole way.

Personally I think it would make a big difference if you bought an amplifier that took full advantage of your special outputs on your super nice pre-amp and you were able to stay with the XLRs. But hey if you want to mismatch voltages then thats your thing...

[Daveburt714]

Thanks for all the suggestions folks!

I'm still very new to seperates, and I'm sure that Carver is a really nice Amp for the price...
I'm not sure about the importance of the XLR thing. This is only a guess on my part (I'll have to research a little more), but my gut tells me even on a short run it would offer better quality...

One other thing I'm kind of a stickler for is matching components. I had a Bose Center and surrounds on the speakers (with the Infiity Mains) and I was not happy with them at all! It's just me I guess, but Bose speakers have never really impressed me anyway, not sure why I even bought them... No offense intended to anyone, just my preferences. :p:

That Emotiva is beautiful and I'm sure it would be a good choice, unfortunately it's out of my price range for the time being. :(

Money is kinda tight right now, and as I said before I like matching components anyway. I'm really impressed with this B&K Head! Not sure where it's going to end up, but I'm watching this B&K Amp to see where it lands when it gets close to the end of the auction...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=320439030846&Category=14973&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26its%3DI%26otn%3D2

If I could put in a last minute bid for ~$300 and get it I'll probably go that route... :D

[jason str]

Whatever you choose will be a big improvement over your Sony, i too dont like to mix and match brands but unfortunately i have never heard that brand of amplifier so cannot comment on the sonic qualities but maybe you could find a local store that stocks the brand and give a test drive.

Good find on the B&K amp, hope it comes through for you so you have some matching equipment.

And stay away from Bose, nothing more than overpriced junk.

[MattiasNYC]

I realize that, but if the pre-amp is sending out a balanced signal, doesn't it have a signal level of +4dBv? and the unbalanced RCA inputs on some of the amps would have a signal level of -10dBv right? Wouldn't it be best to match the proper voltage/signal levels? If I remember right, it is almost a 12 decibel difference between those signal levels. Which since every 6dB is double the volume, if you were to go from those XLR outputs to the RCA inputs you would be halving your volume, and then halving it yet again giving you only 1/4 volume from if you had just stayed balanced the whole way.

Personally I think it would make a big difference if you bought an amplifier that took full advantage of your special outputs on your super nice pre-amp and you were able to stay with the XLRs. But hey if you want to mismatch voltages then thats your thing...

I could be wrong but the output of a speaker is "speaker-level", and neither the hotter "pro-audio line level" +4dBu or the -10dBV "consumer-level" are relevant. These levels are the ones to concern oneself with when making connections between components such as turntables, outboard effects (compressors etc), micpreamps etc.....

EDIT: Actually, I think I misread the intent here, and you might be right, the output level may be a concern depending on the gear to be connected to it....

[EniGmA1987]

Yes Mattias, I wasnt refering to anything speaker level or post amp. I meant going from the pre-amp out, to the input stage on the amp, going from a balanced line-level signal, to an unbalanced line-level signal.



Hey Dave, looks like that amp is at $400 right now :( But the specs are kinda sucky anyway. much better than your Sony still, but some of the main specs for the amp are:
Power rating: 8 ohms 125 watts @ 1 kHz/ 4 ohms 185 watts @ 1 kHz
Damping factor 150
Slew rate 14 V / )sec

The power rating if you notice is for a straight 1kHz singnal, not a full range signal. I bet a 20Hz-20kHz rating would be around 80-90 watts @ 8ohms. That should still be enough for what you want though,but Im just saying that it is over exagurated a bit.
Damping factor is slightly on the low side of things, if you are getting a seperate amp you really should try and get a damping factor of at LEAST 200, I personally like to look for things over 300.
Slew rate is also a bit slow if my memory serves me right. The slew rate can affect transient response and dynamics of the sound.

Like for instance, QSC brand RMX series amplifiers have a damping factor of at least 300 @ 8ohms, for everything under 1kHz. They also have a slew rate of 40v sec. Im sure you could find some sort of multichannel high end home theater amp with much better specs than that B&K amp you are looking at.

[Donnie27]

That is a pretty nice amp, and cheap too! But no balanced inputs...

But that AMP is made for something like that Pre AMP this Guy has. If you keep worrying about the Absolute best, you end up with Nothing. This is an Old School 5 RCA input AMP, no BS and no frills. Its made for a Pre-AMP not a recording Mixer. I'm not sure if Balanced Inputs would matter.

I've used the 2 channel version of this Carver Amp and this 5 ch version would be absolutely hard to beat for a quick and dirty killer system.

I know you know your stuff very well, so this is for most of the others.

@ the OP.


Balanced audio is a method of interconnecting audio equipment using impedance-balanced lines. This type of connection is very important in sound recording and production because it allows for the use of long cables while reducing susceptibility to external noise.

Balanced connections use three-conductor connectors, usually the XLR or TRS jack plug. XLR connectors, for instance, are usually used with microphones because of their durable construction, while TRS jack plugs are usually used for mixer inputs and outputs because of their smaller profile.

For this use shielded or heavy duty RCA cables can pull off and is really all that's needed here.

Good cheap cables?

http://www.computercablestore.com/6_FT_Component_Video_Cabl_PID447.aspx

Two Sets of these work great (total of 6 cables). You get all 5 plus one for the separate Powered Sub. You'll NOT get any noise or signal loss worth talking about with these. If there is any Noise or Loss, your ears will NEVER know it.

One of these. (http://www.computercablestore.com/5_FT_Audio_Y_Splitter_Cab_PID457.aspx) Connected to your sound card's Center Sub Out Put if you're using a Computer or the 6th Line straight to the Sub.

The Pre Out of my Harmon Kardon 247 was connected to my Harmon Kardon 730 twin amp's Pre-amp input with the Couplings removed. This gives the Main Left and Right speakers some kick-@$$ serious thump! With this Carver you can get the same thing from 5 channels instead of two.

[Daveburt714]

If you keep worrying about the Absolute best, you end up with Nothing. This is an Old School 5 RCA input AMP, no BS and no frills. Its made for a Pre-AMP not a recording Mixer. I'm not sure if Balanced Inputs would matter.

I've used the 2 channel version of this Carver Amp and this 5 ch version would be absolutely hard to beat for a quick and dirty killer system.

Thanks for the input Donnie27...
You may very well be right about the Carver, the price is right and I'm sure it would be much better than using the 5.1 input on my Sony.

In all reality, An Amp is an Amp, and I'm sure the Carver would sound a whole lot better than what I have! :p:

I'll keep you folks posted with my adventures... ;)

I love XS... You folks are the shyt when it comes to tech!

Thanks to all for your help!

[Donnie27]

Thanks for the input Donnie27...
You may very well be right about the Carver, the price is right and I'm sure it would be much better than using the 5.1 input on my Sony.

In all reality, An Amp is an Amp, and I'm sure the Carver would sound a whole lot better than what I have! :p:

I'll keep you folks posted with my adventures... ;)

I love XS... You folks are the shyt when it comes to tech!

Thanks to all for your help!

You're very welcomed and good luck!!!! I love sounds almost as much as I love computers. There's always something better but anything is better nothing is the way I see it. I kicked the Audiophile bug but not an Audio bug as a whole. I enjoy seeing others enjoying great sound systems. I don't care for the "This is better so that sucks" crowd at all.:mad: I mean grade A beef doesn't suck because grade AAA is slightly better.

[Daveburt714]

Yeah, it's me again... :p:

Sorry for all the noob questions, pretty sure I let a decent amp slip away.
It was a 6x60 watt Rotel for $125, the guy had 2 of them and they both sold before my check hit the bank (less than 24 hrs)... :(

I've spent most of my time looking for a 5.1 (6 channel amp) because I wasn't sure how well my Infinity sub would react with line level input (I've always ran to the powered in connectors).

To help figure out my options I took a cable and ran it from the B&K head to the Line Level input on the Sub and it shook the frikken walls!
I had to turn the volume on the Sub down to about 1/8th volume just so I didn't make the neighbors mad!

So this opens up a whole new set of options for me. :yepp:
Seems like a 5 channel amp should be more than enough. I'm not stupid, but I am a little ignorant when it comes to audio, so I appreciate the help... :up:

Anyway, I found this one on Ebay, it's from a guy with "0" rep so I'm a little leary... I've Googled it quite a bit and it looks good to me, any opinions, other than the fact that I would be buying from an untested seller?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150383437912&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

BTW: BOOO!! :shock: Happy Halloween...

[PaganII]

I use a QSC RMX 1450 for a stereo and it rocks! QSC makes a 4 channel CX404 about 200wpc but is too expensive retail. Much cheaper on ebay. Churches use them for PAs.That Carver looks perfect. Made in USA too I think.
Behringers are knock offs of the RMX.

[jason str]

Great find on the Adcom, you wont be sorry with that even at twice the cost.

Detailed mids, sparkling highs and solid bass response.

If it does not pan out don't give up, something will come along.

[EniGmA1987]

Bidding ended on it already, did you manage to buy it?

[mikecdm]

That pre/pro is a nice pick up. I'd love to have something like that, but would be in the same situation, no cash for amps.

I'd also like to know if you bought the adcom and what speakers is it going to be pushing.

[Daveburt714]

I appreciate all the help folks!

No, I didn't get the Adcom... :(

It sucks being broke, but I'm really focusing on getting my house thing done right now so my budget is kinda limited. I took a chance today and spent $90
on a case and PSU so I could put together a Rig (from spare parts) to sell on Craigslist. Not a bad deal, and it should give me a little more leverage...

I spent $90, but I have decent rig for sale for $250...
Cooler Master Elite 335 Case (new)
Thermaltake 430w PSU (new)
Phenom 9850 X4
4Gb G.Skill DDR2 1000
250 Gb Samsung HD drive
Pioneer DVD writer
ATI 3450 Video Card
Windows XP 64 Pro intalled

I might already have it sold, one of my friends seems really interested, if not I'll post it on Craigslist... :D

TMI, I know, but I just tought I would let you all know what I was up to.

If I can sell that rig, I'm looking at this Amp for now:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260499994600&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

I really want a legit Amp for this head... guess I'll just have to be patient... :rolleyes:

[Donnie27]

I appreciate all the help folks!

No, I didn't get the Adcom... :(

It sucks being broke, but I'm really focusing on getting my house thing done right now so my budget is kinda limited. I took a chance today and spent $90
on a case and PSU so I could put together a Rig (from spare parts) to sell on Craigslist. Not a bad deal, and it should give me a little more leverage...

I spent $90, but I have decent rig for sale for $250...
Cooler Master Elite 335 Case (new)
Thermaltake 430w PSU (new)
Phenom 9850 X4
4Gb G.Skill DDR2 1000
250 Gb Samsung HD drive
Pioneer DVD writer
ATI 3450 Video Card
Windows XP 64 Pro intalled

I might already have it sold, one of my friends seems really interested, if not I'll post it on Craigslist... :D

TMI, I know, but I just tought I would let you all know what I was up to.

If I can sell that rig, I'm looking at this Amp for now:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260499994600&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

I really want a legit Amp for this head... guess I'll just have to be patient... :rolleyes:

I've not heard that model but I'd not heard anything from Carver I didn't like!

Good things come to those who wait but on the same note, steady long you steady wrong (Steady not study in the south LOL!)

[Daveburt714]

For anyone still interested...

That $90 I spent to put together a machine from used parts actually turned out to be a good investment!
My friend fell through on the purchase so I put it on Craigslist at $300 (fully expecting to have to lower the price)...
Well, I didn't, a guy came and picked it up today for $300 and was quite happy with it. :D

So now I have the cash to buy a decent used Amp. WooHoo! :up:

I found this one locally on Ebay, but the sale doesn't end until Monday night.
I PM'd the guy and he said I could pick it up and save shipping which will hopefully give me enough leverage to win the bid.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110453198386&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
I'm seriously leaning toward the Rotel above, hope I can get it for <=$300.

The other one, which I could buy right now (and knowing my luck will be gone right after I lose the Rotel bid) is the reposted Carver that Donnie27 linked earlier.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380173481819&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
If I lose the Rotel bid, I'll just go ahead and buy the Carver if it's still there...

Anyway, this wasn't a pointless post. I have a legit question!

How important is "THX Certification"?
Is this really something to pay attention too, or just marketing fluff?

The main reason I'm asking is that the Rotel is THX certified, and the Carver isn't...

Thanx folks, not trying to be a pest!
Dave

[EniGmA1987]

THX Certification doesnt mean anything really. It is just a spec that means it meets certain requirements, which can be met without being THX certified. Also there are a LOT of different levels of THX so just a certification doesnt mean anything unless you know exactly which level it qualifies for.

I think the majority of nice aftermarket amps go above and beyond all basic THX certifications whether they sent the unit in for its THX stuff or not.


BTW I like that rotal, even though it doesnt have balanced inputs. But no need to start that argument up again. It will still be leaps and bounds better than your Sony crap.

[Daveburt714]

Ebay idiots went to $351+ on that Rotel... :rolleyes:
I really tried, especailly since it was local, but that was just too rich for my blood.

Oh well, guess I'll keep trying...
Maybe I'm steadying too long. :p:

[Donnie27]

Ebay idiots went to $351+ on that Rotel... :rolleyes:
I really tried, especailly since it was local, but that was just too rich for my blood.

Oh well, guess I'll keep trying...
Maybe I'm steadying too long. :p:

That's why I stay away from the bidding kiddies. In some cases I saw people take bidding personal and bid more than an Item's new price. I strictly buy via "Buy Only" now.

EniGmA1987 is absolutely right about the THX Certification. Most of my buds and I see the THX cert as a set of Minimum Requirements. Most modern equipment easily surpasses these requirements. THX does however become important when looking at Vintage Equipment. Please also note, there are a lot of folks lurking here. Once a link shows up others might see it and buy!

[Daveburt714]

Well, after alot of trauma with my 1st PayPal purchase (instant my azz!)...

I seem to be the proud owner of a Caver AV-505 ($245 shipped). :up:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380173481819&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
It was sent today from Colorado Springs to Cincinnati via FedEx ground, so hopefully I'll get it by Saturday.

There are a few drawbacks with the Amp, no input sense which means I'll probably have to get my butt off the couch to turn it on (Maybe I should invest in a CLAPPER (hehe)).
And it doesn't have XLR inputs which would probably improve signal/noise between the Amp/Preamp, but most of the reviews I read rated it pretty high, so it should be a good starter amp... ;)

I took everyones suggestions into considertion, and I thank you all for your help!!

Here are the specs (Note the >300 Damping Enigma ;)):

AV-505 Specs
* One compact amplifier provides all the power needed for a high performance home theatre system
* Total Direct Coupling for high damping factor at all frequencies
* Each channel protected by: individual fusing, excess temperature sense, DC fault sense, power-on delay, shorted load sense.
* Minimal signal path design, with on card I/O connectors eliminating internal interconnect cables
* Gold Plated RCA Jack Connections
* Individual calibrated level trim controls for each channel
* Removable handles for 17 cabinet space (with trim caps)
* Designed and built by Carver Corporation in Lynnwood, WA USA
* Frequency Repsonse: 20-20kHz +0,-0.2dB
* Power Output: FTC 20hz-20khz
* Power Output: 8ohm 100 watts per channel two channels driven
* Power Output: 8ohm 80 watts per channel all channels driven
* THD: less than 0.08%
* Dynamic Headroom: >1.1dB @ 8ohms all channels driven
* Gain: 29.0 dB (+/- 0.5dB)
* Input Impedance 50 kohms
* Damping Factor: >300 typical (20hz-20 khz)

I still have a few things to work out. I can't seem to find an online "Users Manual" (not that it's a complicated device, but it would be nice to have).
And I'm still having problems using the B&K's Preout to the Infinity Sub....
It's really overpowering even when I lower all settings on the B&K and turn the Sub's volume really low (almost off!).
I'm sure I can figure it out, even if it requires a hacked cable to the Subs powered inputs...

All in all, I'm pretty excited to see what the new Audio Rig sounds like!
If I get it Saturday I might just have to make it a "Lord of the Rings" weekend, It's been awhile since I watched them anyway! :D

[Donnie27]

Well, after alot of trauma with my 1st PayPal purchase (instant my azz!)...

I seem to be the proud owner of a Caver AV-505 ($245 shipped). :up:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380173481819&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
It was sent today from Colorado Springs to Cincinnati via FedEx ground, so hopefully I'll get it by Saturday.

There are a few drawbacks with the Amp, no input sense which means I'll probably have to get my butt off the couch to turn it on (Maybe I should invest in a CLAPPER (hehe)).
And it doesn't have XLR inputs which would probably improve signal/noise between the Amp/Preamp, but most of the reviews I read rated it pretty high, so it should be a good starter amp... ;)

I took everyones suggestions into considertion, and I thank you all for your help!!

Here are the specs (Note the >300 Damping Enigma ;)):

AV-505 Specs
* One compact amplifier provides all the power needed for a high performance home theatre system
* Total Direct Coupling for high damping factor at all frequencies
* Each channel protected by: individual fusing, excess temperature sense, DC fault sense, power-on delay, shorted load sense.
* Minimal signal path design, with on card I/O connectors eliminating internal interconnect cables
* Gold Plated RCA Jack Connections
* Individual calibrated level trim controls for each channel
* Removable handles for 17 cabinet space (with trim caps)
* Designed and built by Carver Corporation in Lynnwood, WA USA
* Frequency Repsonse: 20-20kHz +0,-0.2dB
* Power Output: FTC 20hz-20khz
* Power Output: 8ohm 100 watts per channel two channels driven
* Power Output: 8ohm 80 watts per channel all channels driven
* THD: less than 0.08%
* Dynamic Headroom: >1.1dB @ 8ohms all channels driven
* Gain: 29.0 dB (+/- 0.5dB)
* Input Impedance 50 kohms
* Damping Factor: >300 typical (20hz-20 khz)

I still have a few things to work out. I can't seem to find an online "Users Manual" (not that it's a complicated device, but it would be nice to have).
And I'm still having problems using the B&K's Preout to the Infinity Sub....
It's really overpowering even when I lower all settings on the B&K and turn the Sub's volume really low (almost off!).
I'm sure I can figure it out, even if it requires a hacked cable to the Subs powered inputs...

All in all, I'm pretty excited to see what the new Audio Rig sounds like!
If I get it Saturday I might just have to make it a "Lord of the Rings" weekend, It's been awhile since I watched them anyway! :D

WOW! Nice going Dave!!!!!!:up:

[Daveburt714]

Well, I got the Carver and hooked it up today!

I was really shocked at how bright it was compared to the Sony (not a bad thing), the more I listen to it the more natural it sounds...

I tuned the B&K and mellowed out the sound quite a bit, but I have a question for all you Audio Gurus. ;)
It has to do with "Speaker Size" on the preamp...

I've read the B&K Manual and learned that Speaker Size has more to do with Fequency Range than it does with physical size...

My mains (Infinty SM-112's) have a FR of 32Hz-27Khz, while my center/surrounds (Infiity TSS-750's) have a FR of 135Hz-20Khz

The B&K has a Sub crossover option called "Ultra" which splits the low frequency signals between the mains and the Sub.
I haven't selcted it yet because I don't want to hurt my mains, but I'm thinking it should be OK since they are rated all the way down to 32Hz...

I know it's something I'll have to play with (being careful with volume), and a matter of personal preference, but I don't want to trash my mains!

I currently have the mains set as Large and the TSS-750's set as Small (hell, I might even be able to set the 750's as Large 135Hz is pretty low)..

Is anyone willing to offer any comments on these settings? I won't hold you personally responsible or anything... :p:

BTW: I figured out why my Sub was so overpowering!
When I had it hooked up to the Sony I had the B&K cranked all the way to +120db and used the Sony's volume for all the other speakers (doah!)...
With the Carver -20db is too frikken loud, no wonder the Sub was thumping @ +120! :D
See, I already made one noob mistake... :ROTF:

And I was worried about wether 80wpc would be enough... :shakes:

[jason str]

As long as your surrounds are not bottoming out, muddy sounding or distorting leave them on large, you will be missing things out of them otherwise.

[EniGmA1987]

The "large" and "small" setting does indeed have to do with frequency response and not actual size. When set to small it makes all frequencies under a certain number not go to those speakers, whereas large setting makes all frequencies down to the crossover go to those speakers. All "good" speakers can handle the large setting just fine even if they are surrounds or the center. It is just the crappy home theater in a box or walmart brand speakers that you would have trouble with. So you should probably leave your speakers set to the large setting. The only speaker I would consider leaving as "small" is the center, because that is for dialog reproduction and shouldnt have big booming sounds in it anyway. So if the receiver filters out everything below 200Hz or so from going to that, then the center speaker can more easily reproduce the dialog frquencies, and the dialog might sound a little less muddy. I realise all the audiophiles on the internet would kill me for saying that, but for your setup I think it would probably sound better with the frequency filter on the center.

As for the Ultra, I personally use that in my home theater. Mine is called "plus" though, but it does the same thing. It makes all the frequencies below the crossover point not only go to the sub(s), but also to any speakers set to large. Your surrounds wont be able to reproduce those frequencies anyway so you wont hear the really low stuff back there. And I dont think itwould be damaging to send those frequencies back there either. The speaker may try to reproduce those frequencies, but it wont be able to do it. And unless pushed really hard, it should blow out those speakers or damage them in any way. Setting it to ultra would give you more rumble in your system since the front left and rights would be helping the sub out. But maybe you dont want lots of rumble, so in that case you shouldnt use the ultra setting.

[Donnie27]

Well, I got the Carver and hooked it up today!

I was really shocked at how bright it was compared to the Sony (not a bad thing), the more I listen to it the more natural it sounds...

I tuned the B&K and mellowed out the sound quite a bit, but I have a question for all you Audio Gurus. ;)
It has to do with "Speaker Size" on the preamp...


I haven't selcted it yet because I don't want to hurt my mains, but I'm thinking it should be OK since they are rated all the way down to 32Hz...


BTW: I figured out why my Sub was so overpowering!
When I had it hooked up to the Sony I had the B&K cranked all the way to +120db and used the Sony's volume for all the other speakers (doah!)...
With the Carver -20db is too frikken loud, no wonder the Sub was thumping @ +120! :D
See, I already made one noob mistake... :ROTF:

And I was worried about wether 80wpc would be enough... :shakes:

Last things first, good companies don't use cheap tricks to over market their products. How they cheat might be a good Subject for another thread.

I don't know how I missed this one! EniGmA1987 gets an absolutely QFT! Many will buy Large speakers that are meant for MTM duties. MTM = Midrange, Tweeter/s, and Midrange. They then turn them on and think, man these speakers suck! We had a thread here where one guy even tried to argue that Logitech's 5500 satellites were Full Range LOL! NOTE! While picking even small hide-away speakers, make sure they can reach down to at least 80Hz THX recommends! I find 60Hz is even better on MY SYSTEM! This might suck for others. Now many folks can't tell where my Sub is placed:up:

My mains rate to 28Hz because I removed one 18Hz to 1000Hz Sub and replaced it with two Woofers (Note, sub and woofer are close/similar but NOT the same) two good 10's have the same affect one 15" Woofer, NOT sub-woofer but more accurate in *most cases. They're rated from 28Hz to 3500Hz. I bring this up because my HTPC and receiver are matched go no lower than 60Hz and THX recommends at least 80Hz again. But stealing bass meant for the Sub can mess things up surround sound wise.

[individual]

We had a thread here where one guy even tried to argue that Logitech's 5500 satellites were Full Range LOL!

Hahahaha! I used to own these for my computer, pretty good speakers for the price, but how can he think the satellites are full range....DOI. Small speakers just don't do music justice these days.

Right now I'm running an Onkyo TX-NR906, 2x Krix Neurophonix front, Epicentrix center, 2x pheonix rears, seismix 5 sub Pioneer blu-ray and a Samsung LED 46", never had a better system :D

[Donnie27]

Hahahaha! I used to own these for my computer, pretty good speakers for the price, but how can he think the satellites are full range....DOI. Small speakers just don't do music justice these days.

Right now I'm running an Onkyo TX-NR906, 2x Krix Neurophonix front, Epicentrix center, 2x pheonix rears, seismix 5 sub Pioneer blu-ray and a Samsung LED 46", never had a better system :D

Yet, I love mine more than many systems costing 10 times as much. I tried 20 combination of speakers, and at least 10 receivers. That includes Harman Kardon, Denon, Yamaha and Onkyo, still stuck with the Pioneer 819H (yes loved everything about them except prices). My speakers are very efficient and need a low amount wattage perform. They shake that side of the house, not just the room. I don't do that much because I love my hearing because I love Music.

When I redid and tested them in the Garage, a neighbor thought we we're getting ready to have a block party, he lives two city blocks away, I'm in the Burbs. Not only loud, they sound good enough that two friends built similar speakers with even better drivers. The funny part is they are well off enough to buy just about anything:rofl: One guy even bid on Ebay to get a set of Mach Ones Last year.