Explanation of dedicated Physx cards, please

[DarthMurdicide]

Well hello there!

In doing research for building my new rig, I've noticed that if you choose to go with ATI for my main cards, it's said that I can have an nvidia card for Physx. From what I've read, this option is available on Windows 7 only. My question is how does that work? For example, if I elect to buy 2x 5870's in CrossfireX, and then have a GTX 285 for Physx, if I run a Physx enabled game, do I need to switch the output HDMI cable from the back of the ATI card to the output of the nvidia card?

Thanks!

[Oc-Ghost]

Yes, you probably can use 2x 5870 and a 285 for Physx, Catalyst drivers for 5870's and a hack&physx driver for 285.

That's a downside to using physx with ati cards in the system, nvidia recently stopped supporting it.
Only way to get it to work is with some hacked driver, which are available currently.

Do you switch cables when your starting up a physx game with your current setup? Answer is no, and no to your question also. :)

[DarthMurdicide]

A little confused, if I use the 285 for the Physx game, don't I need to have the video signal output through the 285?

[zanzabar]

A little confused, if I use the 285 for the Physx game, don't I need to have the video signal output through the 285?

u get a cracked NV driver and u do not change the video cable it needs to stay in the rendering gpu (so the top xfire card).

u also dont need a 285 that would have a alot of heat and cost alot of money any generic g92 would work even the under clocked with 256MB of ram once u get past a low clocked g92 it dosnt make a difference

[SoulsCollective]

Think of the nVidia card as working somewhat like a second CPU. It's not doing any rendering, you're merely using the GPU's parallel nature to deal with the many simultaneous PhysX calculations efficiently. Thus, you don't need to swap cables over or anything like that - just fire up the game and it'll work, outputting video signals and doing game rendering through the primary graphics adapter - the Crossfire 5870 array - and with the nVidia drivers handling the directing PhysX calls to the nVidia card, to be then handed back to be incorporated into what the 5870s are outputting on your monitor.

As mentioned above, though, you will need to use the hacked drivers - not a problem, from all reports they're working just fine - and also as above, a GTX285 is massive overkill for this application. PhysX really sees no benefit from running on anything above, say, a 9600GT.

[Locke]

so i can use my 8800gt to run physx? while using my new 5850 to use am my primary graphics adapter?

[Blkout]

so i can use my 8800gt to run physx? while using my new 5850 to use am my primary graphics adapter?

Yes, with the hack.

[texasreefer]

What would perform better, I wonder?

2 x 5870s + gtx 285 (for physx) or 2 x 5870s with a dedicated phyx card via PCI E 1x

[DarthMurdicide]

SoulsCollective, thanks so much, you've explained that well, and I know what to do now. Take care!

[SoulsCollective]

What would perform better, I wonder?

2 x 5870s + gtx 285 (for physx) or 2 x 5870s with a dedicated phyx card via PCI E 1xIf by "dedicated PhysX card" you mean the ooold Ageia add-in cards, then using an nVidia card dedicated solely to running PhysX by far. In fact, with the newer driver versions, I believe the old PhysX cards are no longer supported. However, as has been noted now, using a 285 to process PhysX is cracking a walnut with a sledgehammer - massive, unhelpful overkill (considering heat output, power consumption, cost, and slots taken up).
SoulsCollective, thanks so much, you've explained that well, and I know what to do now. Take care!No worries mate, glad I could help.

[texasreefer]

Yeah, I've had this PPU unit in my PC (wasting space) trying to make use of it. I just want to improve my Vantage score. I'm fixin to purchase the OEM win 7 64, and I'll be able to find out how effective it is. I may purchase an 8800 or 9800 ( whichever is cheaper).

[SoulsCollective]

Yeah, I've had this PPU unit in my PC (wasting space) trying to make use of it. I just want to improve my Vantage score. I'm fixin to purchase the OEM win 7 64, and I'll be able to find out how effective it is. I may purchase an 8800 or 9800 ( whichever is cheaper).There's really no point. Any PhysX drivers after 8.04 lack support for the Ageia PPU units, and the performance is pretty terrible compared to an 8-series nVidia GPU. Have a look here (http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=108194) for more details.

[texasreefer]

Thanks for that info SC, very useful.

[DarthMurdicide]

Man after reading a LOT of articles at xtremesystems, I am slowly coming to the conclusion that because of their failure at chipsets, nvidia is doing anything they can to dominate / monopolize the GPU market, even if it means sabotaging their own customers (Aegis)! That's a shame, for companies like EVGA, who in my opinion offer excellent customer service, will end up suffering as more customers migrate to ATI-based cards. Companies like XFX, who offer multiple GPU lines, will definitely reap the rewards. And it looks like ATI is surely benefitting from their jump to DirectX 11 support and a more powerful GPU; I can't find 5870's ANYWHERE! About the only manufacturer that had cards available as of yesterday was Diamond, but they sold out yesterday evening at newegg, and frankly, I don't want to buy Diamond because they only offer a 1 year warranty (which is shocking). Guess I'll have to wait for ATI/XFX to catch up. What sucks too is that newegg for whatever reason deactivated the XFX 5870's! Sapphire only offers a 2 year warranty; are there any other manufacturers out there that make 5870's with a lifetime warranty besides XFX?

[kiwik]

Visiontek, but I can't say I trust their CS as much as XFX.

[texasreefer]

I wouldn't count out nVidia's chipsets, they've always done more with the same amount of die spacing. The 5870s have a smaller die to work with, but i wouldn't be surprised if nVidia dropped a bomb with a 45nm die.

[DarthMurdicide]

True, but surely mobo manufacturers would prefer to use a more universal chipset like the X58 that can support both CrossfireX and SLI.

[texasreefer]

Sorry for the confusion, but I meant GPU chpset dies...not NB chipset. But, yeah the x58 has alot to do with the 5870s success, it brought alot of nVidia users over to ATI.

Since the 5870 has a 40nm chip, thr power consumtion is low, heat/temp is lower, and performance goes up. Not to mention DDR5 runs at lower voltage.

I believe nVidia will answer though, for now im setting with 4870 quadfire.

[Locke]

Where are these cracked drivers?

[texasreefer]

http://www.techpowerup.com/105329/Hack_Released_to_Enable_PhysX_on_Windows_7_with_AT I_GPU_Present.html

sorry i couldn't post the link, but im posting from my PDA at work

EDIT - I guess it worked

[Oese]

mmh this sounds like a cool thing to experiment with untill ati is on track with its OpenCL and some physics (not PhysX :p) engine.

You guys think a cheapo 8400GS or 9400GT will do some good job? That'll be nice :) Some ageia card cant be more powerful then a 8400GS i suppose :)

also i like the idea of abusing some cheap nv card :lol:

[zanzabar]

an 8400 or 9400 will not handle physX and they are all defective u need atleast an 8600 or 9600 but they are the same price as the g92 so why bother with a slower passably defective card just get a g92 if u want phsyX

[Oese]

are u sure? if so, a 9600 should be awfully slow if it was to render AND calculate physics^^

perhaps it is though :p

g92 u mean 8800? ahh i get the idea 9600=less shaders but same price :) but still ~90€ new card and they are big+need power. no way trying perhaps a 9500? its 50€ only.. must only do physics, doesnt need to do any rendering :)

[zanzabar]

anything sub 8600gt/9600gso will not work for games properly

look at the 9800gt EE it dosnt need a connector from the psu and its cheap

[SoulsCollective]

are u sure? if so, a 9600 should be awfully slow if it was to render AND calculate physics^^It would be - but then, you don't use it to do any rendering - just PhysX.

g92 u mean 8800? ahh i get the idea 9600=less shaders but same price :)
Exactly.

Really, there's been quite a few reviews looking at this, and anything much less than a 9600GT does tend to suffer when implementing advanced PhysX stuff - as said above, you can get "green" versions of the card that do quite well with heat and power consumption.

[DarthMurdicide]

Hey texasreefer, I'M SORRY for the confusion. Should've said NB Chipset. Shoot I wonder how long I'm going to have to hold off until I can buy my 5870's; want to buy at once with my other components to take advantage of the 12 month interest free at newegg. I'll just wait. Since I'm going to give my current computer to my wife, maybe I'll take out one of the 260's and use that in my new rig as the Physx GPU. She ain't going to be playin WoW or Crysis, that's for sure, so she'll get by just fine with two 260's in SLI.

So, thanks everyone for all of the great advice, and I'm sorry if I got off-tpoic. I'll let y'all know how it comes along. Adios Sith,

DM

[texasreefer]

I'm waiting for the 5870X2 to come out, then I'll buy one after the price drop. My buddy has an XFX 5870 and is hitting 26k on 3dmark06. I have four cores and can bearly break 30k. I could see how crossfiring these puppies could kill.

[texasreefer]

I wonder if this videocard would work as a good physics (physx) processor, considering it is the eco-friendly edition....meaning, it has no 6-pin or any external power for that matter. I am only using it for physx/CUDA support. What do you guys think?

http://cgi.ebay.com/XFX-9800-GT-NON-6PIN-REVISION-WITN-ACC_W0QQitemZ180422834239QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPCC_Vi deo_TV_Cards?hash=item2a0209f83f

[Khoral]

That's really interesting :D
I won't put my 8800GTX to dishes finally xD

But I've a question (yeah, me too o/).
If I want to use my GeForce 8 to do PhysX and only that, do I have to plug in the 2 extra PCI-E cables or not ? (I suppose I have to, but it can't hurt to ask ^^)

[SoulsCollective]

Yep. It won't draw as much power only doing PhysX, but the card will squeal loudly if no power cables are attached, and will complain before allowing you to boot into Windows.

[texasreefer]

Good to know. Those cards, eg 9800gt and 8800gts, are still fairly pricey. I was really surprised to find that they were still going for a little more than 100 USD.