Program to Force Supersampling for ATI systems? [Archive]

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aNoN_

10-18-2009, 06:15 PM

Hey.. Am interested in changing from nvidia to ATi but one of the features i really love with nvidia is the ability to force Supersampling (real supersampled FSAA and not regular transparency AA for alphatextures) in games using nHancer to give them a big quality/visual rise... Anyone know of such program? or some way else to force SSAA at 2x2, 3x3 or 4x4.

Thanks...

SoulsCollective

10-18-2009, 06:45 PM

The latest Catalyst Beta packages provide this feature (for the 5-series cards at least), however as with all such options in CCC, it's either on globally or off - you can't specify per-game profiles (which is the one real weakness of ATi drivers).

aNoN_

10-19-2009, 09:26 AM

Lightman

10-19-2009, 11:51 AM

So it's possible? Are you sure you know what type of AA am talking about? I mean this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supersampling - possible on the latest catalyst beta?

Or are you talking about "Sparse Grid Supersampling" ??

It is classic Full Screen Super Sampling.

Here is a small comparison:

I've did only selected ones, still took me 2h of grabbing and uploading, so enjoy!

Doom 3 1600x1200 Ultra Settings (AF set to use application setting except one pic) :

1. noAA
http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/2782/doom3noaa.th.png (http://img30.imageshack.us/i/doom3noaa.png/)

2. 2xMSAA
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/1360/doom32xmsaa.th.png (http://img12.imageshack.us/i/doom32xmsaa.png/)

3. 2xSSAA
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/5462/doom32xssaa.th.png (http://img169.imageshack.us/i/doom32xssaa.png/)

4. 4xMSAA
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/9540/doom34xmsaa.th.png (http://img169.imageshack.us/i/doom34xmsaa.png/)

5. 4xNTMSAA
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/8670/doom34xntmsaa.th.png (http://img169.imageshack.us/i/doom34xntmsaa.png/)

6. 4xWTMSAA
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/210/doom34xwtmsaa.th.png (http://img9.imageshack.us/i/doom34xwtmsaa.png/)

7. 4xEDMSAA
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/1043/doom34xedmsaa.th.png (http://img14.imageshack.us/i/doom34xedmsaa.png/)

8. 4xSSAA
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/3467/doom34xssaa.th.png (http://img134.imageshack.us/i/doom34xssaa.png/)

9. 8xMSAA
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/9390/doom38xmsaa.th.png (http://img14.imageshack.us/i/doom38xmsaa.png/)

10. 8xEDAA
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/2396/doom38xedmsaa.th.png (http://img193.imageshack.us/i/doom38xedmsaa.png/)

11. 8xSSAA
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/7940/doom3ssaa8.th.png (http://img246.imageshack.us/i/doom3ssaa8.png/)

12. 8xSSAA16xAF
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/4458/doom38xedssaa16xaf.th.png (http://img193.imageshack.us/i/doom38xedssaa16xaf.png/)

aNoN_

10-19-2009, 05:32 PM

Which means, ATi doesn't do supersample AA the way nvidia does by downsampling from a huge resolution?

Thanks for the pics btw...

punkrockpolak

10-19-2009, 06:38 PM

Thanks for the pics Lightman. Good visual comparison of the different settings.

SoulsCollective

10-19-2009, 06:48 PM

So it's possible? Are you sure you know what type of AA am talking about? I mean this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supersampling - possible on the latest catalyst beta?Yes, I do know what you're talking about, and yes, ATi offers true supersampling anti-aliasing.

Or are you talking about "Sparse Grid Supersampling" ??This would still be supersampling, merely using a different sample grid. I'm not entirely sure what sample grid pattern ATi uses.

Which means, ATi doesn't do supersample AA the way nvidia does by downsampling from a huge resolution?

Thanks for the pics btw...
No, ATi does supersampling the same way as nVidia or anyone else who implements it. Higher-res version of object scaled. I'm not entirely sure what grid pattern they use, but it's supersampling all right.

Andrea deluxe

10-20-2009, 01:18 AM

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/9153/15391303.png (http://img17.imageshack.us/i/15391303.png/)

Blkout

10-20-2009, 11:21 AM

Yes, I do know what you're talking about, and yes, ATi offers true supersampling anti-aliasing.
This would still be supersampling, merely using a different sample grid. I'm not entirely sure what sample grid pattern ATi uses.

No, ATi does supersampling the same way as nVidia or anyone else who implements it. Higher-res version of object scaled. I'm not entirely sure what grid pattern they use, but it's supersampling all right.

ATI uses rotated grid SS, Nvidia uses ordered grid SS. The ATI choice is superior.

More here.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3643&p=14

aNoN_

10-20-2009, 02:42 PM

Hey thanks a bunch for all the info.. But Andrea, is that really correct? that looks like the regular AA setting for transperancy objects...

@Souls, what levels of SSAA is possible? 2x2, 3x3, 4x4? nHancer also has 1x2 and 2x1 where only horizontal or verticals are affected.

Blkout

10-20-2009, 05:44 PM

aNoN_

10-21-2009, 03:52 AM

SoulsCollective

10-21-2009, 04:40 AM

nVidia supersampling is buggy and uses an inferior sample grid (thanks for the info on the ATi grid patter, Blkout - knew nVidia used aligned grid, but wasn't sure about ATi). This is probably why it isn't actually supported by them at all, and requires third-party programs to enable. See the above link for details.

As for comparisons in Crysis, that would show no difference unless you ran in DX9 mode- ATi has disabled supersampling in DX10 titles due to the changes the DX10 spec allows in AA behaviour.

gx-x

10-21-2009, 06:00 AM

"that would show no difference unless you ran in DX9 mode"

...which also shows no difference compared to dx10 mode...except for higher frame rates in dx9 mode. (I am talking Crysis Warhead).

@aNoN:

I also went from nvidia gtx260 to R4890 and believe me - you won't find aplication like nHancer, and renaming exe files to Oblivion.exe so you get AA is not a good idea from my experience. Sometimes securom won't launch the game at all, and in recent case, I played Risen using nHancer and "combined" mode (2x1SSAA + 2x2MSAA) and only thing I lost was bloom (which is fine by me) and on R4890 renaming Risen.exe to Oblivion.exe and forcing any kind of AA made vegetation like trees completely disappear from game so it's a no-go. :(

SoulsCollective

10-21-2009, 07:09 AM

@aNoN:

I also went from nvidia gtx260 to R4890 and believe me - you won't find aplication like nHancer, and renaming exe files to Oblivion.exe so you get AA is not a good idea from my experience. Sometimes securom won't launch the game at all, and in recent case, I played Risen using nHancer and "combined" mode (2x1SSAA + 2x2MSAA) and only thing I lost was bloom (which is fine by me) and on R4890 renaming Risen.exe to Oblivion.exe and forcing any kind of AA made vegetation like trees completely disappear from game so it's a no-go. :(
Er...that would be because you were using an HD4890 - and the 48xx series do not support SSAA. You need a 5xxx series card, and if you have one you can simply enable SSAA in the Catalyst Control Panel, absolutely no need to muck about with renaming game executables.

aNoN_

10-22-2009, 02:29 PM

Well, could someone do a comparision in dx9 with crysis or any other game plz?

aNoN_

10-24-2009, 10:52 PM

bump

tdream

10-25-2009, 03:21 AM

SSAA is the only real AA imo, 4xSSAA is the sweet spot. 8xSSAA is overkill but looks great. According to the article from anand, SSAA only works in DX9 mode for ati. And SSAA is only available through nhancer on nvidia cards and it's not rotated grid. So both vendors don't fully support SSAA.

SoulsCollective

10-25-2009, 03:30 AM

tdream

10-25-2009, 04:45 AM

It can't be fully supported if it doesn't work on certain titles and modes? People might assume (incorrectly) that it will work on all the latest games with all the nice eye candy, except it won't. It's a nice attempt to bring it back to the control panel, so I do appreciate the effort and hope Ati will allow DX10+ games to use it in the future. Folks who invest in crossfire usually have power to spare and SSAA is a great way to utilise it.

texasreefer

10-25-2009, 05:56 AM

Bottom line, the 5870 is closest any card has come to fully supporting SSAA. THe initial question was wether or not ATI could do SSAA, as nVidia has in the past. Turns' out nVidia never supported SSAA, as you have always needed a third party application to implement it. It was never true SSAA because it is known that the ordered config is sub par to rotated config and had been dropped and is no longer used. So to say that ATI doesn't fully support SSAA (merely because no support to DX10), is also to say that nVidia NEVER SUPPORTED it. They aren't implementing it in DX 10 games because they are making better decisions now and aren't taking any chances. They have successfully achieved their goal......the Fastest, most powerful single-core card solution. The GTX 295 is hanging on by a thread as the most powerful single card solution, but it's only a matter of time until they also take that crown too with the 5870X2. I

Chumbucket843

10-25-2009, 10:22 AM

Well, ATi does fully support SSAA as a standard (nVidia does not, lacking the ability to turn it on in their drivers and requiring third-party hacks to enable), they've just disabled it for DX10 games because the DX10 spec gives devs a lot more control over how they implement AA - therefore meaning it's harder for ATi to make sure their SSAA works properly. I think it's a bit of a weak excuse TBPH, but that's the justification and it's not really fair to say that they don't "fully support".

i can force SSAA from the nvidia control panel with out any problems and it looks much better than msaa. definitely less geometry/shader aliasing. i would not blame it on just ATi but directX too for not providing the proper tools.

aNoN_

10-25-2009, 12:53 PM

i can force SSAA from the nvidia control panel with out any problems and it looks much better than msaa. definitely less geometry/shader aliasing. i would not blame it on just ATi but directX too for not providing the proper tools.

No you can't... rofl

You're speaking about (MSTSAA/SSTSAA) Multi- or SuperSample TSAA ((TranSparency AA)) Which is not the same things as we are talking about. TSAA only affects transparent textures such as grass, bushes, treebranches and fences. SSAA (supersampled anti-aliasing) is something quite different.

Anyway, so will ATi bring SSAA to DX11 games and newer? or is it DX9 only? if yes, will this be changed in future drivers?

OT: Can anyone take some pics of any game with SSAA x4 or x8 please? I wanna see it ingame... *Rather an outdoors game with vegetation and stuff to see the effect working.

Chumbucket843

10-25-2009, 02:29 PM

No you can't... rofl

You're speaking about (MSTSAA/SSTSAA) Multi- or SuperSample TSAA ((TranSparency AA)) Which is not the same things as we are talking about. TSAA only affects transparent textures such as grass, bushes, treebranches and fences. SSAA (supersampled anti-aliasing) is something quite different.

Anyway, so will ATi bring SSAA to DX11 games and newer? or is it DX9 only? if yes, will this be changed in future drivers?

OT: Can anyone take some pics of any game with SSAA x4 or x8 please? I wanna see it ingame... *Rather an outdoors game with vegetation and stuff to see the effect working.
i am fully aware of what it is. i use nhancer to turn it on. didnt mean to call it nvidia ctrl panel.:up:
doom3 is one game that has huge improvements from ssaa.

Blkout

10-25-2009, 03:01 PM

Somehow i get the feeling that this supersampling you guys talking about doesn't compare to the high quality nvidias 4x4 SSAA does. Can someone do a comparison in Crysis for example between 0xAA and 8xSSAA with the fps showing please? Because, i go like from 30 fps down to 5 fps is i enable 4x4 SSAA, but the quality is perfect, outstanding...

Framerate would also take a massive hit on 4xAA or 8xAA supersampling in Crysis or any other game for that matter. 2xAA supersampling seems to be the sweet spot for me. It's quite comparable to 8xAA MS edge detect and runs better.

aNoN_

10-25-2009, 03:46 PM

Anyway, so will ATi bring SSAA to DX11 games and newer? or is it DX9 only? if yes, will this be changed in future drivers?

OT: Can anyone take some pics of any game with SSAA x4 or x8 please? I wanna see it ingame... *Rather an outdoors game with vegetation and stuff to see the effect working.

SoulsCollective

10-25-2009, 05:07 PM

I have a buttload of things to get done today, but I'll try and take some screenies in games for you tonight.

Anything in particular you want shots of? Out of what you might be interested in, I currently have Fallout III (with high-def packs), Unreal Tournament III, all the Valve-made Source games, Enemy Territory: Quake Wars, both S.T.A.L.K.E.R's and Crysis (not Warhead, regular Crysis) installed.

aNoN_

10-28-2009, 08:48 PM

Stalker and crysis please... (And if you didn't know, for crysis you have to press the "enhance application" button and then do 2xAA from the game option menu for it to work ingame)

If anyone else has 5870 and these games, dont hesitate to help me aswell... This will be the one of decisive importance for the choice whether am going to buy nVidia or ATi...

aNoN_

11-08-2009, 07:47 PM

bump

aNoN_

11-18-2009, 04:18 AM

bump....

aNoN_

11-24-2009, 05:04 AM

bump ffs.......

SoulsCollective

11-24-2009, 07:42 AM

Swearing about it is not likely to want to make anyone help you. There are numerous reviews of ATi supersampling available in the wild, rather than moaning about it I suggest you try and help yourself. If you'd left me a PM I might have remembered this thread and have been inclined to make some free time in my increasingly busy schedule, but my motivation to do so has just departed entirely.

aNoN_

12-21-2009, 03:07 AM

And leaving it to disappear far back the pages where noone notices it isn't likely to make ppl help me either right? There's numerous of reviews of ATi supersampling yes, but that's not what i wanted. I wanted comparison screenshots from crysis, which i yet havn't found in those numerous of ati supersampling reviews!

Would you kindly help me? Oh and i mean there's plenty of ppl in here with 58xx cards who could assist me with this, so therefor i seek here.