Adding a radiator, but which one? [Archive]

Feizy

10-07-2009, 01:39 PM

Hey guys, I have been a long time reader of these forums and I really respect your opinions. So finally, I have decided to post and hopefully contribute some useful info too.

First off here are a few pics of my system currently:

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/zbtbabyfactory/pc006.jpg

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/zbtbabyfactory/pc005.jpg

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t245/zbtbabyfactory/DSCN1353-1.jpg

And, here is my system order: Primochill Typhoon III split off to an MCR320-->Heatkiller-->back to res. The other loop goes from the Res--> MCR220 --> 4870x2 full cover WB --> MCW30 --> back to Res.

So, here is my issue. I used to have two separate loops, but I got the Primochill Typhoon III to clean up the space and it did. But, my CPU temps went up more than I would have liked. I was thinking about adding a MCR320 stackable radiator into the mix or just getting a bigger radiator to replace the existing mcr320.

I was thinking about either a GTX420 or PA140.3 to replace the MCR320.

I welcome any and all suggestions. Thanks guys!

millertime359

10-07-2009, 03:16 PM

Swiftech has a MCR420-QP out now too. You could also replace your MCR220 with a MCR320.

Also what were your before temps and what are your after temps? Did you take the CPU block off of the CPU?

Fafeifa

10-07-2009, 04:22 PM

One of the legs of the T3 has more restriction so the Water goes to the other loop while the loop with less restriction is doing all the cooling work since both sub loops has radiator the one with lesser flow is not cooling the waterr as much as the loop with higher flow resulting in higher temperatures in the whole system. Solution is to go back dual loops. Adding anothe radiator means adding more restriction to the loop and doesn't necessary mean that the new rad is going to get the necessary flow to cool down the water.

NaeKuh

10-07-2009, 04:59 PM

@ Fafeifa...

ive been following your posts and u know what..

your the first low post count poster in a while who actually knows what he's talking about.

Meaning.. u give good advice bro. :up:

BUT holy crap.. your join date is older the mine.. :rofl:

Feizy

10-07-2009, 05:02 PM

I've thought about the mcr420, but it is too long unless I run it at the bottom diagonally (i would prefer not to). I can fit radiators that are 19 inches or shorter in my case. Money is not necessarily a huge factory, but I am not going to be getting one of those Feser Monstas.

I run my i7920 C0 @ 4.2 w/ 1.35v. My old idle temps on the CPU were around 41c but now they are about 44c. My old temps after a few hours of gaming were 50c ish, but now they get as high as 60c ish. However, my 4870x2 is running much cooler, which I don't mind.

I am sure that one loop is a bit more restrictive than the other, but I would think it would be the GPU/northbridge block giving that the higher temps, but that doesn't seem to be the case as the GPU temps have dropped.

I just think that since the MCR320 (both radiators actually) is warm to the touch it can't quite handle the total heat of all of the components.

Feizy

10-07-2009, 05:05 PM

Hmmmm, I just had a thought about the restriction thing. Maybe if I put all the radiators on one loop and the other components on the other loop it would do better. Or, is that a bit off?

millertime359

10-07-2009, 05:07 PM

Try switching the NB block over to the CPU loop. You might have too much restriction on that GPU loop actually. Switching the NB block should help to level things out.

Also, did you dismount your CPU, or OC it higher when you switched to the T3?

Feizy

10-07-2009, 05:11 PM

I cleaned, reapplied thermal paste, and remounted the block a few times. I tightened the screws by hand until it was difficult to do so by hand (same thing as before the new res). Same OC as before too. Hmmm, the northbridge you say?

millertime359

10-07-2009, 05:14 PM

As long as you don't have a bad mount, that would be next try. The NB block should be the most restrictive and the CPU loop should be less restrictive. It should help to level things out.

NaeKuh

10-07-2009, 05:18 PM

how sensitive are you to noise?
Meaning... whats your tolerance to fans?

MCR320-->Heatkiller-->back to res. The other loop goes from the Res--> MCR220 --> 4870x2 full cover WB --> MCW30 --> back to Res.

Total rad area is = to a MCR520... 150W x 5 on what i think you want = a max of roughly 750W.

So your MCR setup is good for around 750W...
Cpu ~ 180-200W
GPU = 250W
Board = 30W

so your entire system puts out at most 480W... mmmmm...

Ok... this is going to be very difficult to answer. You need to do a coolant test and see what your delta air in rad -> water coolant temps are.
From a math perspective your not limited.

But you want lower temps...
i think you might have an ambient problem.

Feizy

10-07-2009, 05:22 PM

Ok, I will try switching the northbridge block, but I will probably get to that tomorrow. Do you think there would be any performance increase by having the rads on one loop and the components on the other? I read something recently, maybe by Vapor, about radiator placement and temps.

Feizy

10-07-2009, 05:25 PM

NaeKuh

10-07-2009, 05:26 PM

I like things quiet, but I play my games with headphones on so I can't hear anything else. I don't run the fans at full speed, but when I do the temps are a bit better, but not how it used to be. What do you think dumps out more heat, the 4870x2 + NB or the i7 @ 4.2?

the X2...

LOL....

See my edits...

I think you have an ambient problem... u dont happen to have a temp probe anywhere on the loop do you?

Errrr your fans are on low?
Ummm how about a fan upgrade with controller.
When u game you can blast them... when you bench you can blast them again... when you sleep you down volt them.

Feizy

10-07-2009, 05:30 PM

No temp probe. pooo. The MCR320 pulls are in from the front in a pull orientation (front right of case). The MCR220 is in the bottom left pushing air out so I am sure it is using some air from the MCR320.

Feizy

10-07-2009, 05:34 PM

Oh, I used to have a temp probe when I had the two seperate loops. It was on the GPU/NB loop and the temps of the water would get to about 43c. Not sure if that helps or not. Originally I was thinking it was a case of the temperatures kind of equalizing out but I'm not so sure now.

millertime359

10-07-2009, 05:35 PM

I was discussing some of that with martian. I have my T3 set like that and temps are fine. My E8400 isn't overclocked and I only have a GTX260. The T3 does like things to be balanced, but it shouldn't be too sensitive. The only issue with sticking all the rads on one loop and everything else on the other, is that if your temps are really due to things not being balanced, it still won't be. The rad loop should be less restrictive than the blocks loop.

I was about to ask what Naekuh brought up. What fans are you using and at what speed, also when did you do the swap?

Feizy

10-07-2009, 05:40 PM

I am using yate loon high speed fans. These I believe: http://jab-tech.com/YATE-LOON-120mm-Case-Fan-D12SH-124B-UV-Blue-Frame-with-4-Blue-leds-High-Speed-pr-3824.html

I just slow them down with my sunbeam fan controller.

Oh, and I switched over to the TIII about 2 or 3 weeks ago.

Fafeifa

10-07-2009, 05:43 PM

NaeKuh

10-07-2009, 05:44 PM

The MCR220 is in the bottom left pushing air out so I am sure it is using some air from the MCR320.

i think your MCR220 is messing things up for you. :X [ugh i had to make it kid friendly or mom is gonna pwn us]

Its picking up higher ambients, and forcing your coolant temps to go up.
Try reversing the fans on it so it pulls ambient and throws it back in your case.

Thats a problem with single loops when your rads are spaced out like that.
If one has higher ambients, one will throw your coolant temps up when there not near loaded.

If you load up both cpu and GPU, however you might notice you got lower overall temps.
Rads work better the closer you get to there load values.

Also the values i gave you were for full load. On idle your probably using 1/2.

Feizy

10-07-2009, 05:52 PM

:p: Yeah, gotta keep it pg rated. Cool. I will try reversing the fans first and then the north bridge as the north bridge will take a bit more work. Man, I need to get some plugs for the tubing so I don't have to drain the loop everytime.

skinnee

10-07-2009, 06:05 PM

Fafeifa has a point, unbalanced parallel legs/loops/sub-loops will slow flow rates and raise the C/W of your radiator(s). Flow rates do effect the C/W of a radiator.

But I don't see that as the sole cause with the configuration you have and loops you had previously, based on the math (thank you Excel!) your previous serial loops were right around 2GPM (GPU: 2GPM, CPU: 1.8GPM) individually. With the T3 and the parallel loops/legs you come in with roughly 1.6GPM for each... You are quite balanced flow rate wise.

Your GPU loop/leg has the higher load of two loops, and only having an MCR220. The extra rad capacity of your MCR320 is now being used to cool your GPU loop as well because both loops contribute heat. That is what made your CPU temps increase by moving to the T3.

You still have both options, split the loops or add more radiator to your system.

If you're going to go with a stackable, be sure to add fans just like you would for a non-stacked radiator.

edit - Good lord, I hit reply on a thread with 3 posts...typed some, had dinner, came back and finished what I was doing and there is like 15 replys... what the hell... and Naekuh wants a coolant test, what the hell...

millertime359

10-07-2009, 06:16 PM

Sounds like it if the fans don't help, don't worry about switching the NB block, but get a MCR320 to replace the MCR220

Feizy

10-07-2009, 06:18 PM

:ROTF: Oh man, that cracked me up at the end Skinnee.

I will post back tomorrow with my findings.

Skinnee, in your opinion would you go with another stackable MCR320 or sell off the current mcr320 and grab a bigger rad?

On a side note, what are anyones thoughts on if two separate loops would cool better than the dual loop of the TIII? I know it depends what rads you would use, but before I got the TIII I was thinking about getting the XSPC BayRes Two here: http://jab-tech.com/Acrylic-Dual-5.25-Reservoir-for-Two-Laing-DDCs-BayRes-Two-pr-4550.html

Just a though.

NaeKuh

10-07-2009, 06:22 PM

b4 u go buying rads..

Flip your fans first...
And see what happens.

Feizy

10-07-2009, 06:24 PM

Oh, I won't go buying any rads yet. Any upgrades for me are a few months away. I am going to put a new front on my case first so it looks like 1 whole case instead of two stuck together.

And, thanks to everyone for helping me out on this. I really appreciate it.

millertime359

10-07-2009, 06:29 PM

b4 u go buying rads..

Flip your fans first...
And see what happens.

+1, might have gotten lost in my response. Follow Naekuh's advice first.

There are a few people here that still feel dual loops are better. I think you if you the airflow and rads straightened out, you'll get your temps back down again.

I wouldn't get a bigger rad for the CPU sub-loop, just get a MCR320 for the GPU/NB sub loop if fans don't fix things.

Good luck. :up:

skinnee

10-07-2009, 06:32 PM

Personally, I'd add the radiator to the GPU loop. As long as you can keep your GPU load temps where you're happy, let the GPU leg take the most of the restriction flow hit, your CPU leg will decrease a bit too.

Just out of curiousity... what happened with your GPU temps when you combined the loops into a T3 in parallel config?

edit: Damn I'm slow tonight...

Naekuh does have a good idea with the fans though.

Feizy

10-07-2009, 06:38 PM

Ok, I couldn't wait until tomorrow. I have switched the fans on the MCR220. Gaming will commence shortly. I guess I will be a bit tired for work tomorrow. Oh well.

Fafeifa

10-07-2009, 06:50 PM

Just out of curiosity what blocks do you run?

skinnee

10-07-2009, 06:55 PM

me or the OP?

millertime359

10-07-2009, 06:59 PM

Just out of curiosity what blocks do you run?

Looks like a HK 3.0 LT and a EK FC from the pics. He listed the NB as a MCW30.

Feizy

10-07-2009, 07:10 PM

Yeah, I am using a HK 3.0 LT, MCW30, and the danger den full cover waterblock for the 4870x2. Well, temps seem a bit better. But not to where they were before the TIII. They are about 3c less than before, but that was only with 25mins of gaming or so.

Skinne, you asked earlier about my GPU temps before the switch. They were higher before the switch by about 5c i think, maybe more.

I think the warm air from my PSU might be being sucked into the mcr220 as they are right next to each other (see pics in first post).

Just by doing this little fan switcheroo makes me think I am going to need to rework my airflow in the case all together. And, put my NB block before my GPU block.

Oh, and for me to replace the MCR220 in the back I will need to make a new back panel out of sheet metal, if I want to keep a rad on the back. So many things to consider....

NaeKuh

10-07-2009, 07:12 PM

Loop order has no important.

You go the shortest route.

U dont need to reorder your loop, it seems fine.

Also hot air rises, and your fans arent on high, so i dont think you'll suck in your exhaust from your PSU.

I know.. Pull your side pannel off, and see what happens.

The pannel next to your PSU... so it your rad can draw air from outside.

See if that helps... if it does, then yes you have an ambient problem.

Feizy

10-07-2009, 07:19 PM

Ok, I will try that tomorrow. Right now, it is time to go to bed. Thanks for the help tonight guys. I will post back tomorrow.

Waterlogged

10-07-2009, 07:33 PM

BoxGods

10-07-2009, 08:16 PM

:slap: As long as there is airflow, hot air will go where it's told to go.

Well said. Shoulda added ":banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:es" as in MUSH :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:es!

Waterlogged

10-07-2009, 08:30 PM

Well said. Shoulda added ":banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:es" as in MUSH :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:es!

:rofl:

I was very tempted but thought better of it. :ROTF:

Feizy

10-08-2009, 09:21 AM

Hey guys, so I figured out what the issue was. It was an ambient air problem like NaeKuh originally suggested. I believe the MCR220 wasn't getting cool air, but it is now. After an hour of gaming my CPU temps haven't hit above 50c, close just 49c. But this is way better than before. And, my GPU is even cooler than before. Thanks for all the help guys.