HD5870 and HD5850 Reviews

[onethreehill]

http://www.tomshw.it/graphic.php?guide=20090923
http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=783
http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=858
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ATI/Radeon_HD_5870/
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_5870_PCI-Express_Scaling/
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ATI/Radeon_HD_5870_CrossFire/
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/23415-sapphire-radeon-hd-5870-1gb-gddr5-review.html
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=20289
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=20354
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2009/09/22/amds_ati_radeon_hd_5870_video_card_review
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2009/09/23/ait-radeon-hd-5870-1gb-review/1
http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-5870-review-test/
http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3643
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-5870,2422.html
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/hardware/grafikkarten/2009/test_ati_radeon_hd_5870/
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/2933/sapphire_radeon_hd_5870_1gb_graphics_card/index.html
http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/2934/sapphire_radeon_hd_5870_1gb_in_crossfire/index.html
http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,695689/Radeon-HD-5870-Review-of-the-first-DirectX-11-graphics-card/Reviews/
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/ati_radeon_hd_5870_performance_preview/
http://www.sweclockers.com/articles_show.php?id=6195&page=9
http://lab501.ro/placi-video/ati-radeon-hd-5870-vs-nvidia-gtx-295
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1080/1/
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/radeon-hd5870.html
http://www.nordichardware.se/Recensioner/?skrivelse=528
http://www.hardwareluxx.de/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13073&Itemid=170
http://techreport.com/articles.x/17618
http://news.ati-forum.de/index.php/testberichte/42-grafikkarten/720-test-sapphire-radeon-hd5870
http://www.insidehw.com/Reviews/Graphics-cards/ATI-Radeon-HD-5870-vs-NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX285.html
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2009/09/30/ati-radeon-hd-5870-architecture-analysis/1
http://ixbtlabs.com/articles3/video/cypress-p1.html
http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews.php?reviewid=853
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1104/1/

ATI HD 5870 Scaling Performance: X58 vs P55 Showdown
http://anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=3649

HD 5870 multi-card performance scaling - 1,2,3,4 cards
http://lab501.ro/placi-video/hd-5870-performanta-in-configuratii-multi-card-pe-x58-si-p55

Attack of the Clones: ATI Radeon HD 58xx in CrossFireX Configurations
http://xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/radeon-hd5800-crossfirex.html

Radeon HD 5850 Reviews (CrossfireX)
http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-5850-review-crossfire/
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=20481
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1097/1/
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-5850,2433.html
http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3650
http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,696250/Radeon-HD-5850-reviewed-The-DirectX-11-bargain/Reviews/

AMD Radeon HD 5850 1GB Reviews
http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=788
http://techreport.com/articles.x/17652
http://hothardware.com/articles/AMD-ATI-Radeon-HD-5850-Performance-Review/
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2009/09/30/amds_ati_radeon_hd_5850_video_card_review
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/ati_radeon_hd_5850_performance_preview/
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/HD_5850/
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/24095-xfx-radeon-hd-5850-1gb-gddr5-review.html

[Monstru]

Wow, 5 hours before the NDA, way to go ATI :nono:

[skb]

Nice it's already the 23 in italy :P

[ubuntu83]

Finally. Nice share OTH as always:up:

[Pillo-kun]

it 1am here so get on with it i say!!

[ChinStrap]

sweet

[LowRun]

Finally. Nice share OTH as always:up:

Actually jaredpace was the first to bring it :cool:




FULL REVIEW with CROSSFIRE:

http://www.tomshw.it/graphic.php?guide=20090923

http://www.tomshw.it/guides/hardware/graphic/20090923/images/Crysis%208x%20AA.png

http://www.tomshw.it/guides/hardware/graphic/20090923/images/Far%20Cry%202%208x%20AA.png

http://www.tomshw.it/guides/hardware/graphic/20090923/images/Stalker%204x%20AA.png

[[XC] gomeler]

Looking like 1 HD 5870 ~= 1 HD 4870x2 which makes sense given the doubling of everything except bandwidth. Now I'd like to see 3DMark Vantage scaling with 4 GPUs. Looks like the HD 5870s are taking out the GTX 285 SLI in extreme and high but the 285s are still pulling in performance. Strangely enough, the GTX 285 was scaling better in performance going from 1 to 2 GPUs..

[Piotrsama]

Wow, 5 hours before the NDA, way to go ATI :nono:

Are you blaming ATI because some site broke NDA a few hours before time?
:D

[cegras]

Why aren't any tests conducted with AF?

[Pillo-kun]

Why aren't any tests conducted with AF?

read the review man!!

[Glow9]

So its on par with a 4870x2 with DX11 essentially. I do like the 27W idle though

[onethreehill]

Actually jaredpace was the first to bring it :cool:
Yep. Just read it in Hardware Section
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=4027699&postcount=1766

[LardArse]

wow

[miahallen]

This will be a hard launch right?

[Hornet331]

yes... finally good idle power consumption. :up:

[Kai Robinson]

5870 just got added to my Christmas list ;)

4870x2 Performance without the potential CF driver hassles that i have with my CF 4850 setup

[Stukov]

read the review man!!

No speak Italian.

[tool_462]

No speak Italian.

http://translate.google.com/#

[EnJoY]

I'll wait for AnandTech at midnight. ;)

[Sh1tyMcGee]

dont know why, but i am not that impressed. Will def. wait for nvidia's response.

[HuffPCair]

I'll wait for AnandTech at midnight. ;)

Same. Really cant wait to see these cards.

[HuffPCair]

dont know why, but i am not that impressed. Will def. wait for nvidia's response.

You mean "if" lol I to would like to see how both of the new cards from Nvidia and ATI are going to do.

But it is taking Nvidia what seems like a while to respond.

[Mechromancer]

Well, it looks like AMD made a monster. Good job AMD!

[chispy]

Jeeeesus , this is going to pawn every 3D benchmark available :shocked: ,
except 01 :ROTF:

[Sh1tyMcGee]

You mean "if" lol I to would like to see how both of the new cards from Nvidia and ATI are going to do.

But it is taking Nvidia what seems like a while to respond.

Nvidia will answer im sure of that. This is a great card indeed, but i think all the hype for 2 months kind of made it bigger than it really is.

[HuffPCair]

Nvidia will answer im sure of that. This is a great card indeed, but i think all the hype for 2 months kind of made it bigger than it really is.

I disagree these cards seem like they are going to be great cards, but I do like seeing the competition from both of the companies.

[AndrewZorn]

aaaand my 8800gt and newer 4850m are pretty much crap

[Vit^pr0n]

People expect wayyyyyy too much. I mean really.. it's 2x the speed of the last gen ( 4870 ), and even surpasses the 4870x2/gtx295 in a few benchmarks.

Some people just wont be happy unless it's 5x performance or some ridiculously unrealistic #.

:shrug:

[G0ldBr1ck]

just waiting for the Egg to let me buy this.......... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121346&cm_re=hd_5870-_-14-121-346-_-Product

[Cuthalu]

Nvidia will answer im sure of that. This is a great card indeed, but i think all the hype for 2 months kind of made it bigger than it really is.

I don't know what some of you were expecting, but we are definately living the Golden Age of GPU's once again. There were those times when increase of 50% over previous generation would've been a miracle, and now, we're seeing for the second time in a row way over 50% increases. And the card is blazingly fast when it needs to be - at high AA. All this with revolutionary low idle power consumption at high end. :toast:

[Nedjo]

dont know why, but i am not that impressed. Will def. wait for nvidia's response.
why not awaiting Intel's response in form of Larrabee, so you could play Project Offset? ;)

[damtachoa]

Look like 5870 crossfire does not scale that good. I'll wait for 5870X2 performance before I swipe my credit card.

[Darth_Penguin]

aaaand my 8800gt and newer 4850m are pretty much crap

How do you think my 3 month old 4890 feels? :D

[Xoulz]

Nice!

Ati's x2 series are going to be Monsters....

[clayton]

As expected. GTX 295-like performance from a single card. I'm not expecting much from GT300. Maybe sightly faster, but won't match it in price for sure.

[annihilat0r]

GTX 295 is faster than 5870 in a substantial number of games, but overall 5870 seems to pull ahead.

Not by a wide margin, though. Considering that 295's can be found around $450 (even here in Turkey, don't know about the US) and 5870's will cost around $400, it'll take only a price cut of around $80 for NVidia to still remain very competitive in that range.

Yeah, obviously for NVidia it's not easy to swallow such a price cut, but with all the rumors that the 5870 would totally annihilate any competition and make ATI the choice for most gamers until GT300's came out; I think it's not too bad news for NVidia.

I will totally go for 5870, not 295, but I don't think 5870, while an amazing card; will be enough to be heartily recommended to anyone with around $400 to spend, of course if NVidia indeed cuts the price of 295's.

[Glow9]

aaaand my 8800gt and newer 4850m are pretty much crap

Why they can still play everything out there for the most part right now. My 8800GTS can I still don't see a point in upgrading since not exactly a whole lot of DX11 titles out there.

[Sh1tyMcGee]

why not awaiting Intel's response in form of Larrabee, so you could play Project Offset? ;)

Says the guy who works for AMD, you know i never listen to anyone preach their own product. So that being said, if you go back you can see i clearly said its a great card. Not like current Gen has issues playing any games right now anyway. You dont have to be hurt because i said i would wait for your competitor to see what they have to offer, everyone is counting nvidia out because they will be a month late to the party, my current card (4870 512mb) plays all my games fine, nothing coming out will be changing that anytime soon. So i dont mind waiting another 2 months to see what competition has to offer.

[Kai Robinson]

Look like 5870 crossfire does not scale that good. I'll wait for 5870X2 performance before I swipe my credit card.

More than likely a driver issue. You cant expect magic from the initial driver release that supports the cards.

[natty]

for $400 it doesn't look that impressive

[ideate]

I'm still running my 8800GTX on water. Probably the longest lasting component I've had in my computer.

[annihilat0r]

Summary (to complement my post above)

Vantage: 295 is better than 5870 in all resolutions.
Clear Sky: 295 is faster without AA; with AA they are equal.
Crysis: 295 is faster without AA; with AA they are ~equal.
Far Cry 2: 295 is faster with, and without AA.
Left 4 Dead: 295 is faster without AA; with AA they are ~equal.
World in Conflict: 295 is faster with and without AA.
HAWX: 295 is faster without AA, with AA 5870 is faster. However, there seems to be some kind of problem with NVidia with AA in this game.
Resident Evil 5: 295 is faster without AA, with AA 5870 is faster at 1920 and above.
GTA4: They're about equal but 295 crashes at 2560 res.

So I have to take back what I said or what? 295 seems to be a faster card than 5870 (but consumes more power). I don't think NVidia has to drop its price below 5870. Sure, one is SLI and the other is not, but it's marketed and priced as a single card.

[Nedjo]

Says the guy who works for AMD, you know i never listen to anyone preach their own product. So that being said, if you go back you can see i clearly said its a great card. Not like current Gen has issues playing any games right now anyway. You dont have to be hurt because i said i would wait for your competitor to see what they have to offer, everyone is counting nvidia out because they will be a month late to the party, my current card (4870 512mb) plays all my games fine, nothing coming out will be changing that anytime soon. So i dont mind waiting another 2 months to see what competition has to offer.

you've missed this blue spot at the end of my post: ;)

chill out I was just poking you a bit 'cos of Project offset in another thread and the fact that some guy jumped in trying to defend you although I didn't attacked at first place...

so, no worries all is fine
:up:

and no, I haven't preached 5870 in this thread ;)
it's up to you to see that card rocks... or you can choose not to :shrug:

[Clairvoyant129]

why not awaiting Intel's response in form of Larrabee, so you could play Project Offset? ;)

Why so negative? Since he or she wants to be a smart consumer? Oh but I'm not surprised why. :rolleyes:

[annihilat0r]

you've missed this blue spot at the end of my post: ;)

chill out I was just poking you a bit 'cos of Project offset in another thread and the fact that some guy jumped in trying to defend you although I didn't attacked at first place...

so, no worries all is fine
:up:

and no, I haven't preached 5870 in this thread ;)
it's up to you to see that card rocks... or you can choose not to :shrug:

Overall, 5870 is slower than a GTX 295 and is priced $50 lower. I don't think it really rocks that much, although it's definitely a good card.

[AbelJemka]

for $400 it doesn't look that impressive
It beats 4870X2 and 295GTX while consuming like 100W less in charge and 50W in idle and can run 3 screens natively.
Sure not really impressive :shocked:

[annihilat0r]

those comments make me believe that I am looking at a different set of results..??

How can 5870 be faster than GTX295 where in %50 of the occassions they are equal, and in most of the remaining cases 295 is faster?

[Clairvoyant129]

those comments make me believe that I am looking at a different set of results..??

How can 5870 be faster than GTX295 where in %50 of the occassions they are equal, and in most of the remaining cases 295 is faster?

Depending on people's preferences, everyone has a different conclusion. I would say its a good card around GTX 295's level but once you start pumping 8x AA, it's definitely better.

I would love to pick these up but I would wait first to see how Nvidia responds.

[Nedjo]

Overall, 5870 is slower than a GTX 295 and is priced $50 lower. I don't think it really rocks that much, although it's definitely a good card.

as far as I can see e-tailers didn't broke NDA, like THG.it (they're five hour in the breach)

But I can tell you that price difference isn't like you're saying my friend:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010380048%201305520548%20106792634%201067946192&name=GeForce%20GTX%20295

[Sly Fox]

Just to avoid the hassles of multi-GPU I prefer the 5870 already.

If all you play are a handful of very select games that happen to scale very well and run glitch free, SLI/CF is great.

But try my gaming habits on for size... You'll find out very quickly that multi-GPU still has a ways to go.

[Cuthalu]

Chinese review: http://vga.zol.com.cn/149/1493519.html

[AbelJemka]

those comments make me believe that I am looking at a different set of results..??

How can 5870 be faster than GTX295 where in %50 of the occassions they are equal, and in most of the remaining cases 295 is faster?
Looking at game benchmarks with AA (8 benchmarks), 5870 wins 6 out 8.
Loses clearly WiC, 10% slower in FC2 and GTX295 can't run 3 games at max settings. End of Story :D

[Sh1tyMcGee]

as far as I can see e-tailers didn't broke NDA, like THG.it (they're five hour in the breach)

But I can tell you that price difference isn't like you're saying my friend:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010380048%201305520548%20106792634%201067946192&name=GeForce%20GTX%20295

Not everyone shops at newegg, i can pickup a GTX 295 for $429 locally. Newegg has some high prices, i dont shop there enless i HAVE to. Not saying the GTX 295 is a better card, but clearly overpriced at Newegg like most things, remember newegg selling the 80GB intel SSD for $500? lol

[ripken204]

this is where i am thankful that i can kinda speak italian :)

[HuffPCair]

Says the guy who works for AMD, you know i never listen to anyone preach their own product. So that being said, if you go back you can see i clearly said its a great card. Not like current Gen has issues playing any games right now anyway. You dont have to be hurt because i said i would wait for your competitor to see what they have to offer, everyone is counting nvidia out because they will be a month late to the party, my current card (4870 512mb) plays all my games fine, nothing coming out will be changing that anytime soon. So i dont mind waiting another 2 months to see what competition has to offer.

Just ignore people. I understand what you are saying. I personally am not made of money so I just like to watch the two companies. This is how it is suppose to be one company starts to get better so then the other company tries to beat it.
I am in the process of building a new computer and I will probably be going ATi whether it is the 5 series or the 4. Nvidia just needs to lower their prices I think personally. Yes there cards are good but they are not 500 dollars good. If the 300 series come out and does a better job meaning they do more then just 3 FPS then ATi I will look into them, but from past I expect this race to be about even. That is just my opinion.

[Nedjo]

Not everyone shops at newegg, i can pickup a GTX 295 for $429 locally. Newegg has some high prices, i dont shop there enless i HAVE to.

well good for you :clap: so all of fifteen GTX295's are the most expensive in the States?

[annihilat0r]

Looking at game benchmarks with AA (8 benchmarks), 5870 wins 6 out 8.
Loses clearly WiC, 10% slower in FC2 and GTX295 can't run 3 games at max settings. End of Story :D

Which 6 out of 8? In Clear Sky 295 is slightly ahead (not counting 2560 where the game apparently crashed), in Crysis it's slightly behind, in FC2 it's substantially ahead, L4D slightly behind, WiC REALLY ahead, HAWX REALLY behind, RE5 behind (at higher res), GTA4 equal. So --> pretty much equal even with AA. Without AA, it's faster.

And Nedjo, I don't think sending a Newegg link with the card $520 on it really establishes that the card sells for $520. Here's a Turkish site for you http://www.teknolojix.com/pinfo.asp?pid=5148, this makes about $477, and if you buy it right now it's at about a %10 discount, bringing it down to $430-450.

[Nedjo]

And Nedjo, I don't think sending a Newegg link with the card $520 on it really establishes that the card sells for $520. Here's a Turkish site for you http://www.teknolojix.com/pinfo.asp?pid=5148, this makes about $477, and if you buy it right now it's at about a %10 discount, bringing it down to $430-450.

I was trying to establish point of reference!

I'm sure there are lots of places in the world where you can buy many goodies for awesome prices... but when ATI and NVIDIA speak about suggested e-tail price that we all argue about, it's a price on newegg ;)

[G0ldBr1ck]

I would have to guess that after a more refined driver is used the 5870 will ever so slightly edge out the 295 in almost all of these benches. Its only logical to assume this.

[AbelJemka]

Which 6 out of 8? In Clear Sky 295 is slightly ahead (not counting 2560 where the game apparently crashed), in Crysis it's slightly behind, in FC2 it's substantially ahead, L4D slightly behind, WiC REALLY ahead, HAWX REALLY behind, RE5 behind (at higher res), GTA4 equal. So --> pretty much equal even with AA. Without AA, it's faster.

And Nedjo, I don't think sending a Newegg link with the card $520 on it really establishes that the card sells for $520. Here's a Turkish site for you http://www.teknolojix.com/pinfo.asp?pid=5148, this makes about $477, and if you buy it right now it's at about a %10 discount, bringing it down to $430-450.
The games don't crash, they just can't run because not enough memory!

[LC_Nab]

You all keep forgetting that the 5870 is out with baby drivers probably still beta and like all new cards , it takes a few weeks at least to get drivers that it will unleash its full potential .

379 $ is not bad , also in October it should drop a bit more with the new ones coming out .

[5ILVgearX]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102856&Tpk=5870


limit 1 per customer :eek:

CF benchies will have to wait :p:

[G0ldBr1ck]

Finely there for sale on the Egg!

[Klarko]

How much of a price drop should could we expect when the nvidia cards come out? (pending they are acceptable performance)

[demonkevy666]

295 is dual gpu 5870 is single gpu. what's all the fuse about.....

my 3870 is 5 times SLOWER :(

1 card is 5 times faster.

[Sh1tyMcGee]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102856&Tpk=5870


limit 1 per customer :eek:

CF benchies will have to wait :p:

Id wait for XFX, Sapphire's support and warranty sucks.

[AbelJemka]

Even if 295GTX=5870. Power comsumption sells the deal for ATI. You can't ignore it Annihilat0r!
Eyefinity is also a good bonus...

[LC_Nab]

295 is dual gpu 5870 is single gpu. what's all the fuse about.....

my 3870 is 5 times SLOWER :(

1 card is 5 times faster.

Correct me if Im wrong , but I read that the 5870 is a dual core single gpu .

[Star_Hunter]

Will anyone have reviews with the 2GB version as well?

[fornowagain]

Sorry if its a repost

http://www.sweclockers.com/articles_show.php?id=6195&page=9

[AndrewZorn]

oh, great, some stupid new model on the heatsink.

they say they cant afford things like a proper thermalpaste job, that the products would no longer be affordable and they have to cut costs somewhere.

i can kind of understand this stupid :banana::banana::banana::banana: for the box
but do i really want some grungy dreadlocked woman inside my computer? no. am i paying for it? yes.

why can't it just be black, i'd rather have proper cooling.

[Mechromancer]

I hope the fact that it is for sale and available for only $379 on launch day after all the hype shuts up the naysayers. I could call out names but this has to be a STFU moment for them already. Nvidia fanboys can be quiet until your crap comes in December.

Intel fanboys, rejoice today! In a month you can get a couple 5870s, and P55 mobos with Lucid Hydra on-board for ridiculous scaling. We are probably seeing the future of everything we hold dear today between 5870 and IDF. Today we have learned all is well in the world of PC hardware!

[Mad1723]

Correct me if Im wrong , but I read that the 5870 is a dual core single gpu .

I will correct you, it's not. It's just 2 times the shaders of the 4870/4890, so people assumed it was a dual core GPU... ;)

[Peen]

Wow in stock already at Newegg. Too bad it's got an ugly ass dreadlock Manbearpig on the HSF. Why can't they have tasteful graphics?

[HuffPCair]

Id wait for XFX, Sapphire's support and warranty sucks.

Agreed to that. XFX is the best card out I think. Cant wait to see it hopefully they do something cool to outside case of card.

[G0ldBr1ck]

Newegg just sold out allready :cool:

They took my order, than sent an email telling me my order was cancled

[YukonTrooper]

This card is money. GTX 295/HD4870 X2 performance with considerable power reductions and some people are complaining? Crazy talk.

Out with my GTX 260 216SP and in with this sweet piece of ass from ATI. I'll have Milkyway@Home WU's clogging my bandwidth.

[Chickenfeed]

I'd like to know how they recorded noise levels. According to them the 5870 is louder than the 4890. They also show the 4870x2 as being louder than the 4980. I've had a 4890 in here and it was as loud if not louder so I'm not sure how they loaded the cards. If the 5870 is in fact as loud as or louder than the 4890, that is very disappointing.

I'll wait to see more reviews before making any conclusions but seeing a single 5870 get beat at 1920x1200 with AA ( in a few of their tests ) by a 4870x2 isn't reassuring for me. More so is the fact that SLI GTX 285s don't appear to be that far behind in many cases ( 5870s in crossfire )

One thing is for sure though if I do get any type of 5870, it will be XFX. HIS has the worst support I've ever dealt with in my life (I've tried to have my 4870 replaced for upwards of 6 months... so don't buy one of their cards for the love of god ) and from what I'm hearing Saphire isn't much better.

The only reason I'd be attracted to a single 5870 is if it offers the same and better performance (somewhat so far ) with a quieter audio foot print ( doesn't look like it ) and with reduced power consumption ( something it does do ) I expect them to be around 475 cnd all said and done (exchange, gst, shipping and Canadian bend over tax ) so that is a large investment for a not so large improvement. That said I'm waiting for the 5870x2 and or GT300.

[paulhamm]

Hmm the over priced eggbeater is selling the HD5870 1gb for $379.99 and the GTX-295 for $469.99 which shows the eggbeater is clearly biased against Nvidia and for AMD. That does appear to be a significant price advantage to AMD. AMD must be very upset about that. They really should have charged more. That way Nvidia would have been able to better compete. I think they should raise the price to $449.99 to make it a fair fight with Nvidia. Thats the right thing to do.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102856 HD 5870 1gb $379.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814143192 GTX-295 $469.99 in the cart

Oh, they should destroy all the Juniper parts and just use the rv790 to compete against Nvidia in the midrange. Nvidia only has the g200b so we have to be fair right?

[Monstru]

HD5870 vs GTX 295 (http://lab501.ro/placi-video/ati-radeon-hd-5870-vs-nvidia-gtx-295) @ lab501.ro - Google Translator (http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=en&js=y&u=http%3A%2F%2Flab501.ro%2Fplaci-video%2Fati-radeon-hd-5870-vs-nvidia-gtx-295&sl=ro&tl=en&history_state0=)

[BeepBeep2]

Hmm the over priced eggbeater is selling the HD5870 1gb for $379.99 and the GTX-295 for $469.99 which shows the eggbeater is clearly biased against Nvidia and for AMD. That does appear to be a significant price advantage to AMD. AMD must be very upset about that. They really should have charged more. That way Nvidia would have been able to better compete. I think they should raise the price to $449.99 to make it a fair fight with Nvidia. Thats the right thing to do.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102856 HD 5870 1gb $379.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814143192 GTX-295 $469.99 in the cart

Oh, they should destroy all the Juniper parts and just use the rv790 to compete against Nvidia in the midrange. Nvidia only has the g200b so we have to be fair right?

lol, the 5870 was said to be $100 cheaper than the GTX 295...it doesn't really matter. They are both overpriced.

"I think they should raise the price to $449.99 to make it fair"

When Nvidia came out with the G80 core I was a sucker to buy an 8800GTS. I bought mine for $460. Was that fair to ATi? Hell no, because nvidia was "the all powerful" and "they had DX10".

It recently died for no apparent reason and I replaced it with a $120 4850. I never looked back.

[JAG87]

Lets be objective here. The card is good, but not great, this is not G80 reloaded. Ati did incredibly well to put out a card that is in most scenarios twice as fast as it's predecessor and of GT200. In some cases it even makes a GTX295 beg for mercy...

But that isn't revolutionary. What is revolutionary in my opinion is that Ati is first to the market. Make no mistake, GT300 will beat this card, it's granted. The speculated specs of GT300 project a slightly greater than 2x performance of GT200, so it will get beaten (IMO at least).

The nice thing is that prices will settle until GT300, and nvidia is going to have to watch their prices if they want to keep their customers. People won't pay a 50% price markup for 10% improvement over the competitor, they better price their top dog no more than 449-499.

The HD5870 is a great buy nevertheless, and we should all thank Ati for keeping their feet on the ground with pricing. I truly hope never to see a $600 dollar launch ever again.

[trinibwoy]

This card is money. GTX 295/HD4870 X2 performance with considerable power reductions and some people are complaining? Crazy talk.

It seems crazy if you selectively choose games to look at. But there are titles where a lowly GTX 285 comes close or beats the 5870. So its performance varies wildly between GTX 285 and 4870X2 levels. That leads me to believe that something is very heavily bottlenecked - after all it has about the same fillrate and bandwidth as a 285.

[highoctane]

Newegg just sold out allready :cool:

They took my order, than sent an email telling me my order was cancled

I had one in my cart just now but looks like they stole my precious back before I could checkout!! :D

EDIT: I guess this is just a sign for me not to buy on impulse and wait for the price drops and the competition to arrive.

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/9959/5870h.jpg

[Chickenfeed]

I'd wait to see more reviews to get a balanced picture of the reality of the matter. One thing I will not deny however is that there are more Nvidia centric titles than ATI. This is most likely do to Nvidia's relations to developers with their TWIMTBP program but its undeniable. That said even with this newer / faster hardware, there are cases were AMD still won't outpace GT200 by a considerable margin. Also I personally feel Nvidia has more consistent scaling across more titles with SLI over crossfire.

[HuffPCair]

Lets be objective here. The card is good, but not great, this is not G80 reloaded. Ati did incredibly well to put out a card that is in most scenarios twice as fast as it's predecessor and of GT200. In some cases it even makes a GTX295 beg for mercy...

But that isn't revolutionary. What is revolutionary in my opinion is that Ati is first to the market. Make no mistake, GT300 will beat this card, it's granted. The speculated specs of GT300 project a slightly greater than 2x performance of GT200, so it will get beaten (IMO at least).

The nice thing is that prices will settle until GT300, and nvidia is going to have to watch their prices if they want to keep their customers. People won't pay a 50% price markup for 10% improvement over the competitor, they better price their top dog no more than 449-499.

The HD5870 is a great buy nevertheless, and we should all thank Ati for keeping their feet on the ground with pricing. I truly hope never to see a $600 dollar launch ever again.

So you are saying they should price their cards just like they are now basically. If no more than 499 for their top dog. Well wonder what the 295 has been at forever. O 499.99, they really need to level the prices out a little better. 500 bucks for a gpu that is going to be replaced in maybe a year isnt worth it.

Ati has done a great job at producing cards. The only people that seem to be dissing on it are the ones that are afraid someone is going to have a better card than them. 295 is a great card yes, but the 5870 is going to be a great card if not better when the drivers start to get out of the beta phase.

I truly do not understand how many people can criticize a card that isnt even out yet or hasnt even been out longer then a few hours at the most.

[trinibwoy]

Guru3D: http://guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-5870-review-test/

[JohnJohn]

http://www.tomshw.it/guides/hardware/graphic/20090923/images/Grand%20Theft%20Auto%20No%20AA.png

LOL man im tired of seeing that Gtx295 dying again & again at high resolutions :ROTF:

I wonder if they can run some insane resolutions with some multi-monitor support :rolleyes:

And only @ 380 :eek: :clap: :up:

[onethreehill]

http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=783
http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=858
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ATI/Radeon_HD_5870/
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_5870_PCI-Express_Scaling/
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/23415-sapphire-radeon-hd-5870-1gb-gddr5-review.html
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=20289
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=20354
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2009/09/22/amds_ati_radeon_hd_5870_video_card_review
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2009/09/23/ait-radeon-hd-5870-1gb-review/1

[AbelJemka]

It seems crazy if you selectively choose games to look at. But there are titles where a lowly GTX 285 comes close or beats the 5870. So its performance varies wildly between GTX 285 and 4870X2 levels. That leads me to believe that something is very heavily bottlenecked - after all it has about the same fillrate and bandwidth as a 285.


Guru3D: http://guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-5870-review-test/


Performance -- Well it's grand really. Some titles like Fallout 3 I expected to see a little better scaling but the generic consensus is that the Radeon HD 5870 is MUCH faster than the current leading flagship, the GeForce GTX 285. In fact on occasion it's even faster here and there than a GeForce GTX 295. See this is not a measly small upgrade, no Sir. ATI doubled up everything on the Radeon HD 5870 making sure you will get a grand gaming experience. And oh my gawd, I just realized what a beast the 5870 X2 will be.
:up:

[onethreehill]

http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3643
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-5870,2422.html
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/hardware/grafikkarten/2009/test_ati_radeon_hd_5870/
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/2933/sapphire_radeon_hd_5870_1gb_graphics_card/index.html
http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,695689/Radeon-HD-5870-Review-of-the-first-DirectX-11-graphics-card/Reviews/
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/ati_radeon_hd_5870_performance_preview/
http://hothardware.com/Articles/AMD-ATI-Radeon-HD-5870-Unquestionably-Number-One/

[trinibwoy]

There is no sense in trying to deny that the new ATI Radeon HD 5870 1GB graphics card is incredibly fast and takes the lead as the fastest single-GPU card on the market. When we compare it to the NVIDIA GeForce GTX 285, AMD's new Evergreen GPU bests it in every test with the exception of the new Batman title where the two cards are basically neck and neck. The largest performance gap we saw was in Far Cry 2 where the AMD driver team obviously spent a bit more time to get things where the hardware designers feel they should be. In fact, I am willing to give AMD another couple of weeks to produce better results in both Batman and Resident Evil 5 as both games were part of the NVIDIA "The Way It's Meant to be Played" network which usually results in a earlier access to builds and driver tweaks.

MSRP:

Radeon HD 5870 1GB - $379
Radeon HD 5850 1GB - $259

[eric66]

this card needs some serious driver support imho in some games its very fast in some it even falls behind 4870 x2 don't know kinda mixed thing lol

[wickedld9]

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1080/1/

[drizzt5]

I can't wait to see some benchies with these cards, but I'm sorry...I am spoiled now and don't like spending above $150 for a GPU :(

[YukonTrooper]

I can't wait to see some benchies with these cards, but I'm sorry...I am spoiled now and don't like spending above $150 for a GPU :(
You don't spoil yourself enough if you don't like spending above $150 for a GPU. :p:

[Glow9]

Did any reviews OC the card?

[JohnJohn]

Really liked Guru3D (http://guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-5870-review-test/27)Conclusion



Performance -- Well it's grand really. Some titles like Fallout 3 I expected to see a little better scaling but the generic consensus is that the Radeon HD 5870 is MUCH faster than the current leading flagship, the GeForce GTX 285. In fact on occasion it's even faster here and there than a GeForce GTX 295. See this is not a measly small upgrade, no Sir. ATI doubled up everything on the Radeon HD 5870 making sure you will get a grand gaming experience. And oh my gawd, I just realized what a beast the 5870 X2 will be.

Anyway, the results speak for themselves, and the good news is... we used an early beta driver for testing. Why is that good news you ask? Well, overall performance will only get better with future driver updates. If history has taught us one lesson, that is it.

So we established that the Radeon HD 5870 performance is grand. What about its feature set then? Well, let's face it... that's brilliant as well. ATI is the first to launch a high performance product that is DirectX 11 ready. And while I so wish we already had some DX11 titles to test... it's good to know that if you buy this product, you'll be future proof, as when DX11 games kick in, you will be good and ready to go. Don't forget that DirectCompute will be integrated into Windows 7. Example: if you drop a video file in your iPOD it will be transcoded automatically over the GPU. Yes the GPU will merge much more into the operating system in the years to come. Something new and refreshing is happening here for sure.

Talking about transcoding, it surely didn't suck to see how fast the transcoding process was handled by the Radeon HD 5870, leading performance and nothing less.

Of course we have to mention Eyefinity - the capability to utilize more than two monitors is a very clever idea. And sure, 99% of you will never use that feature. But the 1% that does so, is the avid Guru3D visitor. You guys know we've reviewed the Matrox TripleHead2Go series where you need to drop 250 USD to get a fairly limited three screen display. The implementation of Eyefinity certainly is a blow to the face of Matrox and you guys get to have this feature nearly for free. I don't know about you guys, but I like features; a lot. As Buzz Lightyear from Toy Story would say, "To Eyefinity and beyond... ".

Image quality - We haven't touched on this deeply in the actual review but we did do some comparisons behind the scenes here. Image quality in anti-aliasing is just top notch, yet more importantly, ATI has improved anisotropic filtering with the Radeon HD 5000 series. It's no longer angle dependant and is nearly perfect. So while ATI's image quality already was really excellent... they've upped it a small notch again as well.

Price/performance wise the product might be slightly higher priced at the 399 USD bracket, opposed to the 299 USD you needed to chuck on the table at the Radeon HD 4870 launch. But let's be honest here, 399 USD is a decent price for a very fair and honest product. Just look at what you are receiving, there are just so many features and so much value to be found in it. A DX11 class product with massive performance and multi-display desktop/gaming support. We feel that a high-end product of this class may cost 399 USD as it's really worth that kind of money.

Bottom line: we really like the Radeon HD 5870 for what it brings to the market. And that is leading Single-GPU performance, a massive feature set and a fair price. We ask you - what's not to like here?

[Vinas]

Ohh the cards sold out on newegg so fast... Somehow I still got a HIS 5870 on the way for my new build though :-) gota love newegg!

[gumballguy]

All these people saying its less than they expected.... are already running 4870x2's and 295's!

Well DUH. Of course that means it's not a worthy upgrade (with no dx11 titles yet, assuming you don't want multi monitor).

But I don't think for anyone who has an older card that there is a more sensible option.. given you can crossfire later (who's going to run 2x295's? :p)

5870 = 4870x2 is huge. Maybe you're all at the bleeding edge and its nothing to you, but I'm not. I've got a 7000 series in the server and a 2600 in my laptop.... if you were me, looking for a grand upgrade, what would you buy? :p

[zerazax]

God reading through the Anandtech review, I had no idea how many things got added into DX11 and I'm sure the HTPC users will be happy to know that we can use protected audio through it *finally*!

[Machinus]

This is pretty good news for ATI:

- Fastest single-card solution (likely to be comparable to GT300 even if slower).
- By far the best energy performance of any card. This adds significant value to the card, making it quieter and cheaper to run over the long term (lower khws drawn for computing and A/C).
- Drivers will likely increase the performance of the card a substantial amount over time.
- DX11 games will increase the gap between 5870 and 295. (This does make the comparison with GT300 more important.)

In sum, this is the best product you can currently buy. GT300 can potentially best it in FPS, but ATI has created a serious competitor that is signficantly faster, more efficient, and reasonably priced AT LAUNCH, which is guaranteed to become cheaper and faster due to drivers over time...nVidia is going to have a hell of a time competing here.

[dasa]

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/radeon-hd5870.html
nice low power use
14.7 idle
25.8 2d
107 3dm06
161.3 futurmark

[villa1n]

This is pretty good news for ATI:

- Fastest single-card solution (likely to be comparable to GT300 even if slower).
- By far the best energy performance of any card. This adds significant value to the card, making it quieter and cheaper to run over the long term (lower khws drawn for computing and A/C).
- Drivers will likely increase the performance of the card a substantial amount over time.
- DX11 games will increase the gap between 5870 and 295. (This does make the comparison with GT300 more important.)

In sum, this is the best product you can currently buy. GT300 can potentially best it in FPS, but ATI has created a serious competitor that is signficantly faster, more efficient, and reasonably priced AT LAUNCH, which is guaranteed to become cheaper and faster due to drivers over time...nVidia is going to have a hell of a time competing here.

LoL exactly, I m not sure what people were expecting, especially with Launch Drivers... I see big potential still, you have it beating the x2 in most cases and the 295gtx in many... doing it quieter, and as a single card solution.. pretty impressive.

[Utnorris]

Id wait for XFX, Sapphire's support and warranty sucks.

Zipzoomfly has it at $399.

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10011222

Sold out while I was writing this though. With bing cashback puts it at $388 shipped.

[Chickenfeed]

The XFX model is in stock at NCIX in Canada for $429CND ($20 instant rebate) If I were to get one, this would be the one I'd get. I just can't justify spending upwards of 400 dollars on a card that is slower in many cases just for the sake of power usage and noise.

For those looking to upgrade a card that is more than a generation old however, they look to be quite nice. As has been mentioned in a few of the reviews, it still remains to be seen how DX11 and OpenCL will fair. I personally expect DX11 to outperform DX10 if its done right but we shall see.

[astrallite]

I will correct you, it's not. It's just 2 times the shaders of the 4870/4890, so people assumed it was a dual core GPU... ;)

Well let's see when pcgh provides a microstutter review sometime in the future and debunk the myth.

[postumus]

are ppl forgetting the 9800gx2 beat the ati 4870 and gtx 280 pretty handily when they came out..
dunno what ppl were expecting, I think the performance of this card is blazing, the price is good, the features are great.

[Daveburt714]

I've been a computer nerd since the Vic20 back in 1983!

I really find it hard to believe people are knocking this card, it's frikken awesome and ~$150 less than what the GTX295 was yesterday... :p:

FWIW, I learned my lesson about staying on the cutting edge of video cards, it's a really expensive proposition!

I love the 5870!! I bought a 4870 Saturday for $129...

I'm a Happy Camper. :D

[tajoh111]

LoL exactly, I m not sure what people were expecting, especially with Launch Drivers... I see big potential still, you have it beating the x2 in most cases and the 295gtx in many... doing it quieter, and as a single card solution.. pretty impressive.

I see this launch as an opportunity for NV, the door is left really wide open because the gap is not nearly big enough.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3643&p=17

If you ignore resident evil(37%) and Dawn of war II(loses by 4%), the gap between CF 5870 and GTX 285 SLI is between 10-20% ahead for the 5870cf.

This is all speculations but..

If the GTX 380 is indeed 510 shaders vs 240 and higher clocks than the gtx 285 and they improve the AA algorithm which has been long overdue for the company and other things coming with the new architechture(since it is said to be new), I can see a GTX 380 possibly being as fast as a CF 5870 or a 5870x2. If this happens(and it is a big if), NV will be able to charge as much as they want for the gtx 380. And similarly a gtx 395 will be untouchable. I know its the halo, and people don't spend the most money there(volume), but its enough to make the 5870 crumble in price which is a good thing. It also gives NV room to attack the 5870 in its own home, with scaled down versions of the gtx 380.

I think waiting for the gtx 380 whatever flavor you go, because I can't see the gtx 380 not having an effect on the price of the 5870.

[kl0012]

Really liked Guru3D (http://guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-5870-review-test/27)Conclusion


Talking about transcoding, it surely didn't suck to see how fast the transcoding process was handled by the Radeon HD 5870, leading performance and nothing less.


Actually I'm a little bit dissapointed with perf in video transcoding. With almost 2 TFLOPs of perf HD5870 should be at least 10 times faster then 3.8GHz Nehalem (120 GFLOPs) not just by 16%.
But the power consumption is really impressive for such a powerful card.

[villa1n]

I see this launch as an opportunity for NV, the door is left really wide open because the gap is not nearly big enough.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3643&p=17

If you ignore resident evil(37%) and Dawn of war II(loses by 4%), the gap between CF 5870 and GTX 285 SLI is between 10-20% ahead for the 5870cf.

This is all speculations but..

If the GTX 380 is indeed 510 shaders vs 240 and higher clocks than the gtx 285 and they improve the AA algorithm which has been long overdue for the company and other things coming with the new architechture(since it is said to be new), I can see a GTX 380 possibly being as fast as a CF 5870 or a 5870x2. If this happens(and it is a big if), NV will be able to charge as much as they want for the gtx 380. And similarly a gtx 395 will be untouchable. I know its the halo, and people don't spend the most money there(volume), but its enough to make the 5870 crumble in price which is a good thing. It also gives NV room to attack the 5870 in its own home, with scaled down versions of the gtx 380.

I think waiting for the gtx 380 whatever flavor you go, because I can't see the gtx 380 not having an effect on the price of the 5870.

I d be skeptical of any sli vs CF comparisons with immature drivers... I would only take single card results for the moment, as the yare probably more representative of the performance so the margin between a 285 vs 5870... probably accurately reflects the performance diff, versus the CF / SLI comparison at the moment, as scaling will most likely improve substantially from launch numbers.

To better illustrate... http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/rv870_092209122344/20093.png

Compare the scaling of a 4870 to a 4870x2 .. versus a 5870 to 5870x2... now unless there is some architectural abnormality with 58xx series, the scaling should come close to mirroring what the 4870 achieved, granting there is no bottlenecking to prevent that via pci-e or cpu, etc.

On top of that, I m sure these clock speeds aren't set in stone, as the process matures, we ll have what equates to 4890's appearing as well i m sure, that and the fact nvidia to the best of our knowledge isn't ready to launch anything for 4months yet... So we ll see, I think this will drop 4870x2's like a rock, and 285's and 295's as well, which will allow me to cheaply trifire a 4870x2 with my 48701gb while i wait and let the smoke settle in q1 2010 ^^ Plus, it remains to be seen if the lynnfield will suffer at high res from the pci-e lanes..at 8x ** that answers that! lol. (http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_5870_PCI-Express_Scaling/25.html)

[Bail_w]

Awesome, amazing idle power consumption.

[strange|ife]

I like the techpower up review. They compare various pcie x lanes by taping off the conductors. testing 1x 4x 8x and 16x

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_5870_PCI-Express_Scaling/25.html

[kl0012]

I like the techpower up review. They compare various pcie x lanes by taping off the conductors. testing 1x 4x 8x and 16x

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_5870_PCI-Express_Scaling/25.html

Thanks for drawing attention to this article. Indeed very useful info.

[STEvil]

No 2gb 6 cards yet :(

[Aleki]

NCIXUS (http://www.ncixus.com/products/44138/HD-587A-ZNF9/XFX/)has the XFX5870 for $388 :)

[eleeter]

This is all speculations but..

If the GTX 380 is indeed 510 shaders vs 240 and higher clocks than the gtx 285 and they improve the AA algorithm which has been long overdue for the company and other things coming with the new architechture(since it is said to be new), I can see a GTX 380 possibly being as fast as a CF 5870 or a 5870x2. If this happens(and it is a big if), NV will be able to charge as much as they want for the gtx 380.
I think you are being wildly optimistic here. For this to happen, Nvidia has to best their current single GPU performance by at least 3X.

I also don't think the 5870 is really stretching its legs yet with current games. Looking at the various reviews, yea it's easy to be a bit underwhelmed, but I don't think we have seen exactly what a 5870 is really capable of. Kinda reminds me of the first 9700 reviews. Performance was great, but not astounding compared to previous gen stuff in many games.

[STEvil]

I think you are being wildly optimistic here. For this to happen, Nvidia has to best their current single GPU performance by at least 3X.

I also don't think the 5870 is really stretching its legs yet with current games. Looking at the various reviews, yea it's easy to be a bit underwhelmed, but I don't think we have seen exactly what a 5870 is really capable of. Kinda reminds me of the first 9700 reviews. Performance was great, but not astounding compared to previous gen stuff in many games.

ATI Kicked up the AA mode... more than a notch. :D

http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,695689/Radeon-HD-5870-Review-of-the-first-DirectX-11-graphics-card/Reviews/?page=6

[tajoh111]

I d be skeptical of any sli vs CF comparisons with immature drivers... I would only take single card results for the moment, as the yare probably more representative of the performance so the margin between a 285 vs 5870... probably accurately reflects the performance diff, versus the CF / SLI comparison at the moment, as scaling will most likely improve substantially from launch numbers.

Compare the scaling of a 4870 to a 4870x2 .. versus a 5870 to 5870x2... now unless there is some architectural abnormality with 58xx series, the scaling should come close to mirroring what the 4870 achieved, granting there is no bottlenecking to prevent that via pci-e or cpu, etc.

On top of that, I m sure these clock speeds aren't set in stone, as the process matures, we ll have what equates to 4890's appearing as well i m sure, that and the fact nvidia to the best of our knowledge isn't ready to launch anything for 4months yet... So we ll see, I think this will drop 4870x2's like a rock, and 285's and 295's as well, which will allow me to cheaply trifire a 4870x2 with my 48701gb while i wait and let the smoke settle in q1 2010 ^^ Plus, it remains to be seen if the lynnfield will suffer at high res from the pci-e lanes..at 8x ** that answers that! lol. (http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_5870_PCI-Express_Scaling/25.html)

One more thing to look at it for me is the TFLOPs, the GTX 285 has about 1.06tflops of performance vs 2.08flops of performance of the 5850.

Although it is nearly double the tflops, the 5850 is only 5% faster according to tech powerup. The next GTX 380 is supposed to be 2.5 tflops. If we do indeed get this many tflops from the gtx 380, than forget about it just be competitive with the 5870, its going to start getting competitive with the 5870 x2.

The specs of the gtx 380 might seem outlandish at this point, but considering the size of the gtx 380, which is guaranteed to be huge and NV won't fool around considering how much marketshare AMD has gained for NV being conservative the last time around, I expect them to make a crazy card this time around.

Eleeter, I don't think they need to increase their performance by so much 3x overall, more so a little over 100% over a gt200 will do it because I think because of scaling issues in regards to tflops in regards to 5xxx series cards (e.g 1.2 tflops 4870 -> 2.7 tflops 5870 does not yield close to the theoretical amount), the 5870x2 might be only 50-70% faster than a 5870.

If we want to look this in terms of math, a 5870 is 40% faster than a gtx 285, if the 5870x2 is 50% faster than the 5870, which is typically what we see in the anandtech review, then the 5870x2 offers 2.1 times the performance of the gtx 285(math is 140%*50% = 210%). So if the gtx 380 offers a little over double, it can be competitive with the 5870x2. Based on rumors, considering NV has increase the tflop performance by 2.3 or so and has changed the architecture to something new(and AA is something NV can definitely increase because of how bad the old AA algorithms are on their cards), I can see with high AA and high resolution, NV more than doubling the performance.

When NV went to 7900gtx -> 8800gtx they doubled the amount of gflops(255gflops->510gflops) plus they made a new architecture and we got 100% + boost in high AA and resolution conditions.

This time if NV didn't fool around and the rumors are true(the increase of 2.3-2.4 in shader flops and they are changing to a new architecture), I can see a jump like we saw when the 8800gtx happened. If this happens and it is a big if, the 5870x2 will have similar performance to the 380gtx.

[JohnZS]

I am waiting for 2GB customised overclocked and custom cooled versions of the 5870 to appear.
For now you can purchase a 1GB (IMHO should be 2GB) 5870 in the UK for £298.99 inc VAT that is a little bit cheaper than a GTX 295 :)
John

[vietthanhpro]

waiting 5870 2GB GDRAM5 benchmark.................

[Nomadsoul]

Interested in 5850, any review ? :S:

[villa1n]

One more thing to look at it for me is the TFLOPs, the GTX 285 has about 1.06tflops of performance vs 2.08flops of performance of the 5850.

Although it is nearly double the tflops, the 5850 is only 5% faster according to tech powerup. The next GTX 380 is supposed to be 2.5 tflops. If we do indeed get this many tflops from the gtx 380, than forget about it just be competitive with the 5870, its going to start getting competitive with the 5870 x2.

The specs of the gtx 380 might seem outlandish at this point, but considering the size of the gtx 380, which is guaranteed to be huge and NV won't fool around considering how much marketshare AMD has gained for NV being conservative the last time around, I expect them to make a crazy card this time around.

Xfire for 5870 in Farcry2 as seen in my post 28% increase vs single card...
Xfire for 4870 vs 4870x2 91% increase.. near perfect scaling... I think the scaling for the profiles of the 5870 have a long way to go... even if they dont reach as high it will still be a substantial fps increase.

As for the Tflops, the 5870 is at 2.7? .. And again, look at the drivers, the performance is from launch drivers, that havent harnessed the power yet, and from old games, I think there is more in store with dx11. As well the speculation on the gtx380 is just that, I m sure the numbers will edge out the 5870, but who knows by how much, we could argue either way, and it wont make a difference until some real numbers are released, so for now, we should focus on what we know.. which is the 5870 is a powerful card and given the scaling and performance in games, seems like it has a lot of room to mature with drivers.

[Tuvok-LuR-]

time to grab an used 4870x2 :D

[FischOderAal]

Here's another german review:
http://www.hardwareluxx.de/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13073&Itemid=170

[Jor3lBR]

time to grab an used 4870x2 :D

2 vs Brand New XFX HD 4870x2 2Gb for $500 ($250 each), shipping and tax included on eBay ----> priceless :)

Thanks ATI 5870 :up:

[mav2000]

Holy cow, the power consumption on these cards are sick when compared to their performance, this has really got the 295 beat....but I am going to wait a while and see how the price games go. Meanwhile I am happy playing with my 4870.

[natty]

i was hoping for more than 30% over GTX285 :(

[Mean Machine]

Here's NordicHardware's: http://www.nordichardware.se/Recensioner/?skrivelse=528 (in Swedish, but still).

[gallag]

Looks good, More into cpu than gpu so excited to see these bad boys remove a bit of the old gpu bottleneck in a core2 vs ph2 vs i5 vs i7 review. And to the people trying to justify the more expensive, Power sucking nvidia gpus because they tie at times you sound as bad as the people doing the same with the ph2-965 over the i5-750. Seems that the best combo is yet again Intel and AMD, Who would have thought it.

[vardirox]

Just have anyone compare reading all the reviews versus *watching* the reviews of the Radeon 58xx Eyefinity in action on three 30" monitors... Nothing comes close!!!

http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo85/chipshot64/amdeyefinitypcperbatman.jpg

PC Per Eyefinity Video Review:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujf6P6iGcfc&feature=channel_page

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eghSPBaZm0U&feature=player_embedded#t=14

Reminder - Gaming on 3 x 30" is about 7 feets 6 inches which is Yao Ming territory! :eek:

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/captioncall/0420yao-ming.jpg

[Leeghoofd]

Looking good ATI, bit overhyped by the marketing guys (as usual), but once drivers mature this is a beast... would really love to see 5850 reviews...

I'm really annoyed that so many reviewers think the 5870 is there to beat the GTX 285... wonder what world they have lived in the last few weeks...

At Bit-tech really fun to see a test where they cranck up the filtering and get more fps then with lower detail level applied...

Now let's hope the DX11 games are real showstoppers !!

[tajoh111]

Xfire for 5870 in Farcry2 as seen in my post 28% increase vs single card...
Xfire for 4870 vs 4870x2 91% increase.. near perfect scaling... I think the scaling for the profiles of the 5870 have a long way to go... even if they dont reach as high it will still be a substantial fps increase.

As for the Tflops, the 5870 is at 2.7? .. And again, look at the drivers, the performance is from launch drivers, that havent harnessed the power yet, and from old games, I think there is more in store with dx11. As well the speculation on the gtx380 is just that, I m sure the numbers will edge out the 5870, but who knows by how much, we could argue either way, and it wont make a difference until some real numbers are released, so for now, we should focus on what we know.. which is the 5870 is a powerful card and given the scaling and performance in games, seems like it has a lot of room to mature with drivers.

I don't know how much driver performance you can expect from the single card those. Considering the similarities between the 5870 architecture and the 4870 architecture, beside CF performance I don't know if there is going to be any real jumps in performance. I think alot of the transisters from the new rv8xx is dedicated to directx 11, so I can see performance not going up like crazy.

One more reason I am hopeful of NV performancewise is nv gtx 6xxx and gtx 8xxx, were all changes to new architecture and all them had huge performance jumps. Of course 5xxx gtx was a new generation and was terrible, I hope this is not the case because I want a strong competition from both sides, where both companies can make money and offer price drops to the consumer. The sad thing is considering the size of NV chips, the only way this happens is if NV big chips are competitive with AMD dual chip solutions or offers a 50% performance advantage over AMD single chip solutions, which I think NV is banking on.

I am not an NV fanboy as I have a 4870x2 and a 4890 and nothing from the gtx 2xx series lineup. I just want a strong competition from both sides, which I think everyone wants.

[Newblar]

Looking good ATI, bit overhyped by the marketing guys (as usual), but once drivers mature this is a beast... would really love to see 5850 reviews...

I'm really annoyed that so many reviewers think the 5870 is there to beat the GTX 285... wonder what world they have lived in the last few weeks...

At Bit-tech really fun to see a test where they cranck up the filtering and get more fps then with lower detail level applied...

Now let's hope the DX11 games are real showstoppers !!

you mean the next generation single gpu against the last gen's single gpu leader?
whats so wrong about that

[w0mbat]

Yummy
http://img5.imagebanana.com/img/wv4y019e/1.jpg
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2009/09/23/win-a-sapphire-radeon-hd-5870-vapor-x-card/1

[zalbard]

wow
+1
That's a lot reviews at once! And all of them agree that the performance rocks! :D

[Vit^pr0n]

Man this thread is almost exactly the same as the 4800 series launch thread.

People were saying how they weren't that impressed since it wasn't 2x the performance of the 8800GTX and was slower than the 9800GX2 :rolleyes:

Look where the 4870 is now. With drivers, it has become a great card. Let's not forget that CF scaling for the 4800 series wasn't exactly close to 2x like it is now. Did everyone forget one of the driver releases by ATi that fixed CF scaling to be near double what it was at launch?

When will people learn :rolleyes::confused:

[villa1n]

I don't know how much driver performance you can expect from the single card those. Considering the similarities between the 5870 architecture and the 4870 architecture, beside CF performance I don't know if there is going to be any real jumps in performance. I think alot of the transisters from the new rv8xx is dedicated to directx 11, so I can see performance not going up like crazy.

One more reason I am hopeful of NV performancewise is nv gtx 6xxx and gtx 8xxx, were all changes to new architecture and all them had huge performance jumps. Of course 5xxx gtx was a new generation and was terrible, I hope this is not the case because I want a strong competition from both sides, where both companies can make money and offer price drops to the consumer. The sad thing is considering the size of NV chips, the only way this happens is if NV big chips are competitive with AMD dual chip solutions or offers a 50% performance advantage over AMD single chip solutions, which I think NV is banking on.

I am not an NV fanboy as I have a 4870x2 and a 4890 and nothing from the gtx 2xx series lineup. I just want a strong competition from both sides, which I think everyone wants.

I agree, unless its dx11 I dont think the performance is going to astronomically jump, i was talking about the CF performance mainly improving substantially, as the 5870x2 will hold the perf crown for a while, unless those massive gt300 cores somehow fit on a single pcb lol! Competition is good, this will drive nvidia s current offerings down quite a bit, but i think ATI has surprised them, so it will be interesting to see what the gt300 holds in store. I m sitting on the fence for a bit... although that vapor X version looks pretty damn sweet!! hehe.

[Dante80]

Yummy
http://img5.imagebanana.com/img/wv4y019e/1.jpg
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2009/09/23/win-a-sapphire-radeon-hd-5870-vapor-x-card/1

Very nice indeed...:)

two minor rants though

1> heat in the case
2> cmon sapphire, it took ATI all these years to abandon the red pcb, and you still go for the blue?....go black baby...XD

[eric66]

lol @ amd amd can't do :banana::banana::banana::banana: its still ati engineers under amd roof

[Jamesrt2004]

congrats amd/ati great card

(people complaining = their faults for hyping it on there own.)

seems a great card power consumption is insanley good 50@w at idle and under load its only a few more then my current 4870 with twice the performance! insane ....


cheapest in UK seems to be £300 at OCUK lol scan is at £350 O.o ebuyer @ 300/309/309 for their cards.. thought they would be about £15 cheaper then that but my prediction of $380 at launch was 100% spot on =) .. shame my UK was out (not that it matters, wait for the price drop when gt300 comes out)

drivers only seem to improve by what between 5~10% so I think we will need 2gb to take down the 295 beast :)




ok TPU has pissed me off... in their review one of the bad points was it didn't support cuda/physx ... what a fking moron.

[flopper]

Nvidia cards = dx10, old tech, cant do 10.1 nor dx11 in hardware.
ATI, owns dx10.1 and dx11, and games taking advantage of that, will just simply hurt Nvidia alot.
All the reviews have, old tech as dx9, dx10, and dx10.1 and the 5800 series basically crush everything out there using comparison to old tech.

So, how will it far down the road when dx11 becomes more adopted?
I am thinking frostbite engine 2, I am thinking bf3 and so on.
I would assume the card that I get, I can have for 2 years without any need for an upgrade.
Same as for my 4870.

Cant wait to game at 3 screens.

[eric66]

http://www.hardocp.com/image.html?image=MTI1MzU4OTM1NVlDbXBla3ZKZm5fNl8yX 2wucG5n

af is clearly superior with new ati cards i am liking that ati always was about iq so it continues

[Milos-stancene]

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2009/09/22/amds_ati_radeon_hd_5870_video_card_review/9

his is Crysis! Nothing can seem to blow it out of the water

[gOJDO]

2 vs Brand New XFX HD 4870x2 2Gb for $500 ($250 each), shipping and tax included on eBay ----> priceless :)

Thanks ATI 5870 :up:2x5850 will outperform 2x4870X2, will have less microstuttering, will OC more, will consume less energy and will dissipate less heat. So, 4870X2 for $250 is not such a good deal...

[randomizer]

http://www.hardocp.com/image.html?image=MTI1MzU4OTM1NVlDbXBla3ZKZm5fNl8yX 2wucG5n

af is clearly superior with new ati cards i am liking that ati always was about iq so it continues

Is it so clear in game though? Synthetics are all well and good, but don't necessarily mean anything in the real world.

[mk_dir]

OK today is the NDA break for AMD's HD5870/HD5850, however, anyone see a HD5850 review??

And yes, I can make me an idea about his performance (matched with GTX285) but seriously, not even one review?

[cirthix]

I like the techpower up review. They compare various pcie x lanes by taping off the conductors. testing 1x 4x 8x and 16x

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_5870_PCI-Express_Scaling/25.html

Interesting review.


XBIT's power consumption numbers look awesome.

[takamishanoku]

Wow what a card! Ati have done everything right. If I was going to upgrade this would be the card. Well done Ati.

[Jamesrt2004]

OK today is the NDA break for AMD's HD5870/HD5850, however, anyone see a HD5850 review??

And yes, I can make me an idea about his performance (matched with GTX285) but seriously, not even one review?

one I read did in one of the main page (they downclocked and disabled 2 simd's or something so its literally 100% 5850 with maybe bit higher power consumption

[saaya]

FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINALLYYY!!!!

god this was the slowest launch ever... and cards still arent in retail :rolleyes:

[Kai Robinson]

Like i said, i'll be buying myself a 5870 for Christmas, to replace the 4850 Crossfire setup i have at the moment. No doubt drivers will unleash more potential over the coming months.

[xgate]

OK today is the NDA break for AMD's HD5870/HD5850, however, anyone see a HD5850 review??

And yes, I can make me an idea about his performance (matched with GTX285) but seriously, not even one review?

+1
What I have only read is that the 50's will use the same memory as 70's, and I still want confirmation...
It will be great for overclocking :)

[Jamesrt2004]

FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINALLYYY!!!!

god this was the slowest launch ever... and cards still arent in retail :rolleyes:

I can buy from plenty places in UK :p: so ARE retail hehe

yeah I agree too long though, they shouldnt have anounced its 3 weeks ago. just anounce it today WITH stock, seems a lot better or even a week ago.. 3 just took the biscuit hehe =)



+1
What I have only read is that the 50's will use the same memory as 70's, and I still want confirmation...
It will be great for overclocking :)

no they dont use same memory, they use pretty much the same thats on 4890's @ 4000mhz, the 70's get the big dog 5000mhz

[onethreehill]

http://techreport.com/articles.x/17618
http://news.ati-forum.de/index.php/testberichte/42-grafikkarten/720-test-sapphire-radeon-hd5870

[FischOderAal]

I can buy from plenty places in UK :p: so ARE retail hehe

There's not ONE place in germany where HD-5870 and HD-5850 are available...

Exchange between pound and euro is quite good, but afaik your hw-prices suck, am I right?

€dith: Nope :eek: Not really. But I'm waiting for the HD-5850.

[Dante80]

A quick question. Why is there no 5850 review available atm?

1> Was there a separate NDA for the 2 cards?
2> Were there no sample cards given by AMD to reviewers?
3> Did AMD ask reviewers to postpone said reviews due to market supply problems/glitches?
4> Was this a strategy decision by AMD, for marketing or other reasons?

[Leeghoofd]

you mean the next generation single gpu against the last gen's single gpu leader?
whats so wrong about that

As 5850 was put up against GTX 285 in the marketing slides, 5870 is foreseen to rival with GTX 295...

The cards are nicely performing, but I hope them drivers mature fast and games, software is adapted rapidly, so we can see some real gains of these GPU's...

Only thing I see is pre order...where did you order yours Jamesrt2004 ?

[onethreehill]

OK today is the NDA break for AMD's HD5870/HD5850, however, anyone see a HD5850 review??

And yes, I can make me an idea about his performance (matched with GTX285) but seriously, not even one review?


one I read did in one of the main page (they downclocked and disabled 2 simd's or something so its literally 100% 5850 with maybe bit higher power consumption

Techpowerup?

We simulated the performance of the HD 5850 by taking our HD 5870, reducing the clock speeds and disabling two SIMDs, which results in exactly the same performance as HD 5850.
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ATI/Radeon_HD_5870/5.html

[zerazax]

Lost in a lot of the shuffle is the fact that AMD/ATI has had these cards out for DX11 devs since June...

We all know what happened last time we went to DX10. Nvidia had its cards out far earlier, and devs worked much more closely with Nvidia...

Obviously, a lot remains to be seen, but it wouldn't surprise me if DX11 titles, early on at least, have a slight ATI slant

[saaya]

A quick question. Why is there no 5850 review available atm?
w1zz disabled a part of his 5870 and downclocked it to 5850 clocks... he says its the same perf as a 5850...
so tpu has the only 5850 review and its not even a REAL 5850 review? 0_o
and this after all the hype and "hold your horses" launch? :stick:
terrible launch...


I can buy from plenty places in UK :p: so ARE retail hehe
link? its listed in many places but no stock... its pre-order... :/

and i just finished the tpu review... 43db under load for the 5870? :stick:
thats a lot... and tdp is about the same as a gtx285 so why is it 6db noisier?

and performance... i really expected more...
both 5850 and 5870 are always between 285/4890 and 4870x2/295...
i thought the 5870 was supposed to beat at least the 4870x2 and the 295 at least in some cases?

5850 is on average only 5% faster than a 285...
the 5870 is on average 15% slower than a 295...
compared to their own predecessors the 5850 is only ~20% faster on average than a 4890 and a 5870 is only ~40% faster...

performance per dollar the 5870 is about the same as a gtx285 and the 5850 is between a 280 and 260...

the 5870 only oced around 5%... so basically zero...

5870 at 379$ and 5850 at 259$ are still priced too high...
4890s are available below 200$ and are only 20% slower than a 5850...
4870x2 is available for 330$, 50$ less than a 5870 and its faster than a 5870!!!

this is really a big letdown... double the hw resources and only a mere 20-40% performance gain? how come? maybe its because they have two seperate blocks of 800sps instead of one block of 1600 sps? thats probably what chiphell was refering to with their dualcore gpu talk...

im really dissapointed... more hw resources than a 4870x2, in one gpu and not 2, at higher gpu clocks, with faster memory... and it ends up slower than the 4870x2? and it costs more? :confused:
what happened???

[zerazax]

Drivers anyone? ^

At release, the GTX 280 was benched to be slower than the 9800 GX2. The 4800's, while faster than the 38xx's by a lot, were oft compared to the 9800GTX's... Well, add on a 4870 1GB edition, driver improvements... and voila, performance is where we think of it today.

Lost in a lot of the shuffle is the fact that AMD/ATI has had these cards out for DX11 devs since June...

We all know what happened last time we went to DX10. Nvidia had its cards out far earlier, and devs worked much more closely with Nvidia...

Obviously, a lot remains to be seen, but it wouldn't surprise me if DX11 titles, early on at least, have a slight ATI slant

[Jamesrt2004]

w1zz disabled a part of his 5870 and downclocked it to 5850 clocks... he says its the same perf as a 5850...
so tpu has the only 5850 review and its not even a REAL 5850 review? 0_o
and this after all the hype and "hold your horses" launch? :stick:
terrible launch...


link? its listed in many places but no stock... its pre-order... :/


Wow.. my bad ... on the main page it said

"We have large amounts of stock available of the Sapphire ATI Radeon HD 5870 1024MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card with more cards from XFX, PowerColor, Gigabyte and VTX arriving later this week. "

and I could purchase one earliar, but they already ran out it seems and are pre-order for more :ROTF:

[gosh]

Interesting test where they are using one AMD system and one Intel system.

5870 on Intel i7 940 and AMD Phenom II 955 (http://translate.google.se/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fmikrodatorn.idg.se%2F2.10 30%2F1.253738%2Fmikrodatorn-hardtestar-radeon-hd5870&sl=sv&tl=en&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8)

[mk_dir]

A quick question. Why is there no 5850 review available atm?

1> Was there a separate NDA for the 2 cards?
2> Were there no sample cards given by AMD to reviewers?
3> Did AMD ask reviewers to postpone said reviews due to market supply problems/glitches?
4> Was this a strategy decision by AMD, for marketing or other reasons?

I think that's the main reason, I heard that the portion of full working RV870 chips per wafer are relative high, so there's gonna be a stock problem for the HD5850 for the first weeks, as far as HD5850 GPU cores are not laser cutted...


Techpowerup?

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ATI/Radeon_HD_5870/5.html

Thanks a lot! In synthesis:

http://tpucdn.com/reviews/ATI/Radeon_HD_5870/images/perfrel.gif

[AKM]

performance per watt wise the 5870 is by far the worst card tpu ever tested...

Ugh.. what?

http://tpucdn.com/reviews/ATI/Radeon_HD_5870/images/perfwatt.gif

[billdavis]

avaliable @ ncix

[randomizer]

Drivers anyone? ^

Considering the drivers were only sent out last Monday (not much time to do a review eh?), I think the driver devs had been holding them back as long as possible, so if they aren't up to par it's disappointing.

[AbelJemka]

...
Graph skills reading needed Saaya :rofl:

edit : 4870X2 has 50% more bandwidth than 5870, that the point!

[flopper]

and performance... i really expected more...
both 5850 and 5870 are always between 285/4890 and 4870x2/295...
i thought the 5870 was supposed to beat at least the 4870x2 and the 295 at least in some cases?

5850 is on average only 5% faster than a 285...
the 5870 is on average 15% slower than a 295...
compared to their own predecessors the 5850 is only ~20% faster on average than a 4890 and a 5870 is only ~40% faster...


Battleforge dont use tesselation as it isnt adding to the visual quality in the rts game camera view.
http://mikrodatorn.idg.se/polopoly_fs/1.253855!imageManager/3060608602.jpg

You confusing Nvidias old tech, and it is old and renamed tech, with new tech, brand new, the paint is still dropping from the stickers, the birds havent had time to settle down, the air is fresh and sweet,
get a grip with dx10.1 with dx11, and nvidia isnt even contending.

No confusion here.

Just a note: in dawn of war, the gtx295 has 15fps less than 5870, 50fps if we count in call of juarez.

edit: the tendency is that minimum fps stays much higher on the new 5870.
http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews.php?reviewid=842&pageid=5
That is important for reason as, microstuttering using sli/crossfire, stuttering in intensive fights, racegames etc...

[GregSG]

Powercolor ATI 5870 that's in my rig now. (http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=2509341)

Not mine, belongs to a member in HWZ SG

[FischOderAal]

Lucky you :( Have fun!

[saaya]

Drivers anyone? ^
At release, the GTX 280 was benched to be slower than the 9800 GX2. The 4800's, while faster than the 38xx's by a lot, were oft compared to the 9800GTX's... Well, add on a 4870 1GB edition, driver improvements... and voila, performance is where we think of it today.
and you base that on what?
1. the 280 didnt improve perf notably compared to the 9800gx2, sites just stopped including 9800gx2 cards in their benches cause they were obsolete as time moved on.
2. gtx280 performed about the same as 9800gx2, it wasnt slower than a 9800gx2, at least not on average.
3. so what, cause gtx280 price perf sucked at launch its ok for 5800s price perf to suck at launch as well? :P
4. driver improvents of the 4870 were only around 10% on average since 8.7, maybe 15% by now... and even IF new drivers will give these cards a boost, itll take months... and by then prices and perf of other cards will have changed as well... so this argument makes no sense... what matters is perf and price right now, and its not making any sense at this point to go for a 5xxx imo...

if you want perf go for a 4870x2, its CHEAPER and FASTER than a 5870...
if you want perf/cost go for a 4890 or gts260... 50-100$ cheaper and only slightly faster than a 5850...



Ugh.. what?

http://tpucdn.com/reviews/ATI/Radeon_HD_5870/images/perfwatt.gifmy bad, already edited my post :D

nice pciE scaling article with the 5870 by w1zz:
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_5870_PCI-Express_Scaling/1.html

i dont agree with his conclusions though, if your spending as much as 750$ on 2 5870 cards to get an average perf boost of 50% or so, you def care about losing 5+ fps due to running only 8x 8x and you should rather get an x58 board...

and i highly recommend people to NOT use the 4x 1.0 slot on p55 boards for a third vga!

[billdavis]

Powercolor ATI 5870 that's in my rig now. (http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=2509341)

overclocks?!?

have a better system to use

[saaya]

edit : 4870X2 has 50% more bandwidth than 5870, that the point!
yeah i guess the bw does add up and work better for an xfire setup than a single gpu... still dissapointing though... if bw is really such a big limit then why did they stay at 256bit and didnt go at least 384?



You confusing Nvidias old tech, and it is old and renamed tech, with new tech, brand new, the paint is still dropping from the stickers, the birds havent had time to settle down, the air is fresh and sweet,
get a grip with dx10.1 with dx11, and nvidia isnt even contending.wth are you talking about? are you y_eye? your sentences sound really weird just like the stuff he puts together :D
so cause its new its better?
and cause it supports dx11 its better?


in dawn of war, the gtx295 has 15fps less than 5870, 50fps if we count in call of juarez.where?
in coj2 the 5870 is 5-10fps faster than the 295
in dow2 the 5870 is 5-10fps slower than the 295


edit: the tendency is that minimum fps stays much higher on the new 5870.
http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews.php?reviewid=842&pageid=5
That is important for reason as, microstuttering using sli/crossfire, stuttering in intensive fights, racegames etc...
right, one gpu is better than 2 but if that 1 gpu costs more than 2 other gpus you do start thinking how bad the micro stuttering really is... :D

that review your linking to is comparing a dx11 patched game vs the dx10 version... fair enough... but i doubt we will even see a handful of games with dx11 support anytime soon...

so 5850 keeps a notable higher min fps compared to a 4890?
its a shame tpu doesnt show min fps... ill read some more reviews...

[Gamer]

As 5850 was put up against GTX 285 in the marketing slides, 5870 is foreseen to rival with GTX 295...

The cards are nicely performing, but I hope them drivers mature fast and games, software is adapted rapidly, so we can see some real gains of these GPU's...

Only thing I see is pre order...where did you order yours Jamesrt2004 ?

I bought mine at overclockers.co.uk for about € 333 including shipment.
Not that cheap as in the USA, but better as Belgium online shops.

[saaya]

so much for NCIX has cards in stock :P

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/5148/5870b.jpg

[LiquidReactor]

I expected more from this card. I hope its just early unoptimized drivers because theoretically this card should be as fast if not slightly faster then HD 4890 CF.

[Xoulz]

If it is good then what is great? Currently I most certainly cannot name anything better.

AMD did a wonderful job, and I think it's about time they take the credit. ATi did the HD2xxx and HD3xxx, the HD5xxx is most certainly an AMD product. AMD got Ati way overpriced and with a crappy design and made something decent out of it. IMO the credit goes to AMD, not Ati

nvidia will fist have to make the GT300 and for their sake, as well as ours, they better make something better than the bloated GT200. I don't think nvidia can survive another GT200 scenario, not with the HD5xxx in production, HD4xxx was way easier to compete with.

GT300 might be faster than the HD5xxx but at what price? I mean die size and yield, heat output and power consumption, performance per transistor or mm2.

Also nvidia will have to make quite the leap, if they want to make GT300 a definite winer they will have to make it MORE than 2x as fast as prev gen, something the industry has yet to see. It is a very hard task IMO, and there might very well be another can of whoopass for nvidia. Hope they manage to stay competitive thou, for competitions sake.

Very well done AMD, congrats. Time to buy some AMD stock maybe?



This ^^

ATi must've worked their cross-talk, because the HD5800 (Crossfire) series scales better, on almost all occasions. Wonder how well the x2 line is going to scale, seeing that their cross bars run at higher freq.

What I think is the remarkable story is the Radeon HD5850.. @ $249 !!

Not much for many of us, given.. but, clearly a $199 card by Xmass. Thus setting the bar for basic-mainstream DX11 enthusiasts, etc.


ATM, the HD5870 makes everything else moot, period!

[billdavis]

so much for NCIX has cards in stock :P

:down: canadians :down:

[Don_Dan]

I didn't follow the whole thread, maybe it has been posted before, anyway:

Here's the HD 5870 review done by the German hardware magazine PC Games Hardware, this is the English version of the review. (http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,695689/Radeon-HD-5870-Review-of-the-first-DirectX-11-graphics-card/Reviews/) Check it out! :up:

Okay, it has been posted already... Sorry. -.-

[Lestat]

yeah not that impressed, what was the max i saw 10fps better than the GTX285 and that was only 1 game, all others were about equal with some being less.

not worth the money to ME, but if you have a 4700 or 4800 or even a 4900 series card then you might see the increase. but for 285 owners... nope, nothing special about the ati card..... for now.


ATM, the HD5870 makes everything else moot, period!

boy if you call the MEAGER performance increase that i saw in those reviews a lead and a moot point then i have a bridge i'd like to sell you.

but i agree give them time they will work on the drivers and hopefully get some more blood from this turnip.

[onethreehill]

Sapphire Radeon HD 5870 1GB in CrossFire
http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/2934/sapphire_radeon_hd_5870_1gb_in_crossfire/index.html

ATI Radeon HD 5870 vs. NVIDIA GeForce GTX285
http://www.insidehw.com/Reviews/Graphics-cards/ATI-Radeon-HD-5870-vs-NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX285.html

[saaya]

ok, i just read the hwcanucks review...
hes using vista 64 sp1 instead of vista 32bit sp2 that tpu uses... and hes at 4g while tpu is at 3.8g for their i7 setups...
im a bit confused how far their numbers are from each other, so i assume 32bit vs 64bit makes quite a diference?
canucks has the 4870 and 295 performing worse than single gpu cards in quite some scenarios, and has the 4870x2 beating the 295 while on tpu the 295 is clearly ahead in almost every bench...

another weird thing, canucks has a 5870 beat a 4870x2 in quite some situations as well...
very weird... ill never understand how reviews can end up with numbers that are that far from each other using the same hw...
dont get me wrong, im not saying any numbers are fake, it must be diferent windows and driver config...

just finished the canucks review... i dont see the 5870 having constantly higher min fps than other cards... but in 2 or 3 scenarios yes...
no major improvement though imo...

it seems to make a huge diference what review you read!
definately check out several reviews!!!
hwcanucks draws a much more positive picture than tpu for example!

[HKPolice]

Very disappointing. Why pay $400 for a 5870 when a $250 4870x2 performs the same? Better yet, just get 2x 4870 for $100 each.

Sure for the rich gamers/benchers price is not an issue, but those are the minority.

[Xoulz]

yeah not that impressed, what was the max i saw 10fps better than the GTX285 and that was only 1 game, all others were about equal with some being less.

not worth the money to ME, but if you have a 4700 or 4800 or even a 4900 series card then you might see the increase. but for 285 owners... nope, nothing special about the ati card..... for now.



boy if you call the MEAGER performance increase that i saw in those reviews a lead and a moot point then i have a bridge i'd like to sell you.

but i agree give them time they will work on the drivers and hopefully get some more blood from this turnip.



Dude.. the 5870 ownz the 285, it would be a great upgrade..! Even if they are the same price..!




And yes, the HD5870 makes everything else moot. It's a single GPu chip debuting @ $349... Which means this will be a mainstream $319 card by the Holidays. We also know there will be a HD5890 and the enevitable new x2 series..!

Lestat, do you not recognize the damage two HD5850's will do to anything nVidia relases, once these cards are $199?, for $399(HD5840 x2) you'll have 2,880 shaders...! :eek:

What (under $400) will Nvidia have that can compete with that?

[Vinas]

Very disappointing. Why pay $400 for a 5870 when a $250 4870x2 performs the same? Better yet, just get 2x 4870 for $100 each.

Sure for the rich gamers/benchers price is not an issue, but those are the minority.
Buy the 4870x2 and be outdated isn't something I'd like to repeat... I went the 3870x2 route when the 4870 was released and for me it was a poor decision. If you're gonna spend the money for an enthusiast part; get the new part IMHO.

Now that I bought the 5870, I am free to CF them once the prices drop for a really nice performance gain. The prices never really drop below $300 for the x2 where the single card will dip to the $200s. So in the long run that would be only $580ish for two 5870s vs at least $600 for two 4870X2s. It's a wash :p:

[Jamesrt2004]

Very disappointing. Why pay $400 for a 5870 when a $250 4870x2 performs the same? Better yet, just get 2x 4870 for $100 each.

Sure for the rich gamers/benchers price is not an issue, but those are the minority.

power draw is BLAGGH on the 48XX :( :(



@ le stat... the 5870 beat the 285 in all benches I saw by quite a margin... lol

[Xoulz]

Very disappointing. Why pay $400 for a 5870 when a $250 4870x2 performs the same? Better yet, just get 2x 4870 for $100 each.

Sure for the rich gamers/benchers price is not an issue, but those are the minority.



wattage..?

noise..?

DirectX11..?

better AF..?

less heat..?

etc..?

:down:

[Nedjo]

Very disappointing. Why pay $400 for a 5870 when a $250 4870x2 performs the same? Better yet, just get 2x 4870 for $100 each.


where???

[onethreehill]

http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/sapphire_hd5870/
http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=1682
http://www.techspot.com/review/198-ati-radeon-hd-5870-review/

[ghost_recon88]

No HD 5850 reviews yet?

[GregSG]

http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles/view.php?id=3012&cid=3&pg=1

:)

[AbelJemka]

yeah not that impressed, what was the max i saw 10fps better than the GTX285 and that was only 1 game, all others were about equal with some being less.
10 fps better?
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/rv870_092209122344/20100.png

http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/video/radeon-hd5870/diagrams/codww.png

http://www.hardware.fr/medias/photos_news/00/26/IMG0026854.gif

May buy new eyes or stop cherrypicking reviews!

[saaya]

the tpu numbers are off compared to everything else i saw so far... :shrug:
i liked the xbitlabs one best so far, they test a lot of games in a lot of res, they use aa and af in a very smart way where it makes sense, and they show min and max fps and all details in how they tested...

for xbitlabs the 5870 is give or take the same as a 4870x2 in performance, sometimes slightly ahead sometimes slightly behind.
its clearly slower than the 295, but not by a huge margin...
the one thing that looks odd on xbit is that the 295 DESTROYS both the 4870x2 and 5870 in hawx... it looks like they tested in 10.0 and not 10.1 and even then its really weird... :confused:

after reading the hwcanucks and xbitlabs review i have a much more positive picture of the 5870...
looks like its about the same as a 4870x2 but its one gpu and not two, which is a plus, and it has some improvements over the 4800 series...
but the price is still not right... how can it cost 50$ more than a 4870x2? which performs about the same or even better in some sitations?
and the very poor overclocking results on 5870 cards really suck too, only 5% according to tpu, thats a joke... even a super hot 4870x2 ocs better...

[Morais]

Anand review rocks, as aways. Loved the idle power, stability in the card and overcurrent protection. For sure il try to sell my 4850 and buy a 5k series

[v0dka]

I'm wondering where Lestat got those scores as well. :shrug:

So what's the verdict: one 5870 or two 5850 as best price / perf?

[Mech0z]

Any info on when we will see 3. party coolers and when the 2GB will launch? 2GB should be be alot faster in high res games unless the bus limits it I would presume

[FischOderAal]

after reading the hwcanucks and xbitlabs review i have a much more positive picture of the 5870...

:up:


looks like its about the same as a 4870x2 but its one gpu and not two, which is a plus, and it has some improvements over the 4800 series...
but the price is still not right... how can it cost 50$ more than a 4870x2? which performs about the same or even better in some sitations?
and the very poor overclocking results on 5870 cards really suck too, only 5% according to tpu, thats a joke... even a super hot 4870x2 ocs better...

I expected the HD-5870 to be app on par with the HD-4870X2. Yes, CF-scaling is not an issue with one GPU, but who says doubling everything leads to double the performance? Therefore I'm quite pleased up to now, except for the price. BUT AMD is advertising features as well and seeing it's the only DX11-card out there I can understand why they priced them this way. I expect prices to improve soon.

[xgate]

no they dont use same memory, they use pretty much the same thats on 4890's @ 4000mhz, the 70's get the big dog 5000mhz

At least Asus Eah5850 has the 5ghz ones.
Also they have voltage tweak for core and mem! :D

[AbelJemka]

Personnally i have never see an ATI card being good at overclocking at launch!
And for the price difference between 4870X2 and 5870 i think that feature ( Eyefinity, DX11, better power compsumption, etc...) have a cost :shrug:

[Think]

Anandtechs reviews are the best. Very nice card indeed. So does this mean that dual gpu is out of the equation?

[jmke]

We collected several thousand benchmark and game results into a single result chart which shows the relative performance of the various graphics card out there, compared to the newly arrived Radeon HD 5870. Techpowerup underclocked and disabled two SIMDs on their sample to match the specifications of the HD 5850, their result has also been added to the chart; and as you will see, the HD 5850 is on average ~7% faster than the GTX 285. The higher clocked and more powerful HD 5870 is ~10% slower than GTX 295, and 4% slower than their own HD 4870 X2. The HD 5870 is however the fastest single GPU out there now, besting the GTX 285 by almost 20%!



http://i37.tinypic.com/b5368y.png (http://www.madshrimps.be/vbulletin/f22/amd-radeon-hd-5870-hd-5850-performance-chart-66465/)
source: http://www.madshrimps.be/vbulletin/f22/amd-radeon-hd-5870-hd-5850-performance-chart-66465/

enjoy :)

[btarunr]

Synthetic HD 5850 represents a real HD 5850. Neither is faster/slower than the other. The only grey-area is the power consumptions, perf/W, and here, a synthetic HD 5850 is excluded.

What's more, we have another review slated for later today. http://forums.techpowerup.com/showpost.php?p=1564289&postcount=14

[gosh]

http://mikrodatorn.idg.se/polopoly_fs/1.253855!imageManager/3060608602.jpg

You confusing Nvidias old tech, and it is old and renamed tech, with new tech, brand new, the paint is still dropping from the stickers, the birds havent had time to settle down, the air is fresh and sweet,
get a grip with dx10.1 with dx11, and nvidia isnt even contending.

No confusion here.


There is an error in that graph.
Update: I stress to get everything ready so, the results for HD5870 and GTX295 changed places in the graph above. Until we can replace it, so be aware that the HD5870 is receiving the best results. (http://translate.google.se/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fmikrodatorn.idg.se%2F2.10 30%2F1.253738%2Fmikrodatorn-hardtestar-radeon-hd5870&sl=sv&tl=en&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8)

[saaya]

I'm wondering where Lestat got those scores as well. :shrug:

So what's the verdict: one 5870 or two 5850 as best price / perf?
im going to read a few more reviews, but it seems theres quite some variation for some reason... really odd... same hw, same software, same res, same drivers... but some people get notably diferent perf than others... 0_o

tpu is 32bit, which might explain why they got notably diferent results...
xbit anand and hwcanuucks are on vista 64 or win7 64...
i also think at least some results in tpus db are outdated and that might explain diferent results as well...

and yes, price perf 5850CF seems to be the best...
for benching 4890 3x CF might be the same or close though...


Any info on when we will see 3. party coolers and when the 2GB will launch? 2GB should be be alot faster in high res games unless the bus limits it I would presumei doubt 2gb will be faster, why should it? its not any faster for current gpus...
and i hope we will see better 3rd party heatsink soon as well...



I expected the HD-5870 to be app on par with the HD-4870X2. Yes, CF-scaling is not an issue with one GPU, but who says doubling everything leads to double the performance? Therefore I'm quite pleased up to now, except for the price. BUT AMD is advertising features as well and seeing it's the only DX11-card out there I can understand why they priced them this way. I expect prices to improve soon.i hope so... even with the 5850 being more than 20% faster than a 4890 on average, im really surprised to see a 5850 cost almost 100$ more... but prices seem to vary as well, originally it was 299$, then 279$ and now some mentioned 249$? i think its 279$ and 4890s can be had to 190$, so theres quite a gap there...


Personnally i have never see an ATI card being good at overclocking at launch!
And for the price difference between 4870X2 and 5870 i think that feature ( Eyefinity, DX11, better power compsumption, etc...) have a cost :shrug:huh?
4870 and 4890 both oced well...
what were def clocks for 4890? 850mhz?
and they clocked to close to 1ghz on air... hows that bad ocing?

[kiwi]

but the price is still not right... how can it cost 50$ more than a 4870x2? which performs about the same or even better in some sitations?


5870 is almost 2x more efficient per watt. Price is good. I remember 7800 days when we paid $600+ for a high end card :/

[Dami3n]

With the drivers used, performance is a bit dissapointing. With numbers over the table, this 5870 should beat easy the "old" 4870x2, and it can´t :shrug:

[saaya]

5870 is almost 2x more efficient per watt. Price is good. I remember 7800 days when we paid $600+ for a high end card :/
you talk as if those days are over :D
what do you think the 5870x2 and gt300 are going to cost when they come out? :D


With the drivers used, performance is a bit dissapointing. With numbers over the table, this 5870 should beat easy the "old" 4870x2, and it can´t :shrug:what review did you read?

check the xbitlabs review... it DOES beat the 4870x2 in several scenarios... check the graph at the end of the review and youll see its roughly on par with a 4870x2...

[annihilat0r]

I think Anand's review has established that a 5870 is slower than a 295.

I'd never get a 295 over a 5870, but what I was stressing earlier that 5870 isn't going to be all-destructive for NVidia at the $400 range if they are able to reduce 295's prices so that they can be got for around $400 (instead of the $430-450 right now). This wasn't what we were made to expect from 5870 and I can't help but feel a little disappointed.

Yes, better performance per watt, single GPU, DX11... These are going to make ME get a 5870, but for the best FPS numbers, the fastest single card is still 295. I hoped otherwise.

[billdavis]

when can we buy them in the us

[AbelJemka]

4870 and 4890 both oced well...
what were def clocks for 4890? 850mhz?
and they clocked to close to 1ghz on air... hows that bad ocing?

4870 at launch TPU :
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Diamond/HD_4870/24.html

The final overclocks of our card are 785 MHz core (5 % overclock) and 1150 MHz Memory (27.7% overclock).

4890 at launch TPU :
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Sapphire/HD_4890/32.html

The final overclocks of our card are 925 MHz core (9% overclock) and 1110 MHz Memory (14% overclock).
;)

[SKYMTL]

ok, i just read the hwcanucks review...
hes using vista 64 sp1 instead of vista 32bit sp2 that tpu uses... and hes at 4g while tpu is at 3.8g for their i7 setups...
im a bit confused how far their numbers are from each other, so i assume 32bit vs 64bit makes quite a diference?
canucks has the 4870 and 295 performing worse than single gpu cards in quite some scenarios, and has the 4870x2 beating the 295 while on tpu the 295 is clearly ahead in almost every bench...

another weird thing, canucks has a 5870 beat a 4870x2 in quite some situations as well...
very weird... ill never understand how reviews can end up with numbers that are that far from each other using the same hw...
dont get me wrong, im not saying any numbers are fake, it must be diferent windows and driver config...

just finished the canucks review... i dont see the 5870 having constantly higher min fps than other cards... but in 2 or 3 scenarios yes...
no major improvement though imo...

While I don't know if this is the case, Mike from TPU has stated quite a few times that he uses in-game benchmarks for many games. This may have changed but the difference is that we use either walkthroughs in games that don't allow timedemos instead of the in-game benching tool in games like DoW, HawX, etc. Neither approach is "right" and both will give different results.

When it comes to timedemos, everyone uses different ones as well so parallels can't be drawn.

Finally there is this:

TPU:


NVIDIA: 186.18
ATI: Catalyst 9.6


HWC:


ATI 9.9 WHQL
Nvidia 190.62 WHQL (w/ SLI V2 Patch)

ATI's 9.8 and 9.9 drivers brought VERY good performance increases to the whole ATI lineup. Especially the HD 4870X2.

The same goes for the increases brought on with the onset of Nvidia's 190-series drivers.

Just as an FYI, 18x-series drivers from Nvidia didn't support SLI in CoJ or DoW.

This is exactly why you need to read more than one review to get a broad picture regarding what the lay of the land really is.

[One_Hertz]

I wonder if 5870CF is going to be faster than the 5870X2?

[Dami3n]

what review did you read?

check the xbitlabs review... it DOES beat the 4870x2 in several scenarios... check the graph at the end of the review and youll see its roughly on par with a 4870x2...

Anand, bit-tech, Hcanucks,....., and it can´t beat easy the 4870x2.
With same specs, better clocks, and without de handicap of crossfire, i expected better performance in all games. So, yes, the results with the drivers used is a bit dissapointing.

[bloodbanger]

Well,i don't give a ratt's ass about the gamebenches they use.Never play those games anyways.I'm pretty sure it's a beast in the games i do plan on playing :D

[AbelJemka]

Read specs and see 232Gb/s 4870X2 and 150Gb/s 5870.
256bits bus huge bottleneck for 5870!

Feel Christmas 5890 with increase bus :rolleyes:

[SKYMTL]

Anand, bit-tech, Hcanucks,....., and it can´t beat easy the 4870x2.
With same specs, better clocks, and without de handicap of crossfire, i expected better performance in all games. So, yes, the results with the drivers used is a bit dissapointing.

Unlike some people, I am of the opinion that history has shown that new drivers do not increase the performance of a single chip card unless there are issues to begin with. Dual GPU cards? Yes, new drivers definately increase performance in existing games.

Where single GPU cards get performance increases is with new games that hadn't been optimized in past drivers or fixing errors with performance in current games. One example of an issue is the HD 5870's HawX DX10.1 performance. I am sure that will be fixed in future revisions.

Otherwise, I will put money on the fact that the HD 5870 will never beat the HD 4870X2 on a regular basis even with driver revisions. There is a substantial bandwidth gap between the two making equalized performance next to impossible.

[jmke]

Well,i don't give a ratt's ass about the gamebenches they use.Never play those games anyways.I'm pretty sure it's a beast in the games i do plan on playing :D


so is a TNT 2 Ultra , for the games I do plan on playing.

[bloodbanger]

so is a TNT 2 Ultra , for the games I do plan on playing.

Yeah yeah,you get the point:p:

I plan on playing Dragon Age,Divinity:Ego Draconis(need to support the Belgian Developers lol)and Arcania/Risen...

For these games the 5870 is more then powerfull enough

[saaya]

reading the anandtech review now...
CF in warhead sucks, a 5870 is notably faster than a 285 but 5870CF is barely ahead of 285SLI...
for anandtech the 5870 is up to 25% faster than a 4870x2? thats the highest ive seen so far in any review...

wutt? in fc2 anandtech has a 4870x2 do about the same as 5870CF???
and a single 5870 beats a 295 and kills a 4870??? :confused2
sounds like 5870CF is again craptacular ...

but a 4870x2 notably beating a 295 and even 285SLI? thats really weird...
especially since a 4870 is notably slower than a 285 in their graphs too...

anandtechs FC2 results make me dizzy ^^

everything else looks a lot like on xbitlabs, 5870 is about the same as the 4870x2 and the 295 tends to be a tad faster... on xbitlabs the 295 has a bigger gap over the 5870 and 4870x2, thats the only diference between anandtech and xbitlabs so far... that plus some weird warhead and fc2 numbers :D

excellent conclusion on anandtech! :toast:
i couldnt agree more...

The easiest kind of product for us to write about is the kind that’s clearly superior to its competition.
The hardest kind to write about is the kind that’s stuck in the middle. For the 5870, we have the latter case.

Let’s be clear here: the 5870 is the single fastest single-GPU card we have tested, by a wide margin. Looking at its performance in today’s games, as a $379 card it makes the GTX 285 at its current prices ($300+) completely irrelevant. The price difference isn’t enough to make up for the performance difference, and NVIDIA also has to contend with the 5850, which should perform near the GTX 285 but at a price of $259. As is often the case with a new generation of cards, we’re going to see a shakeup here in the market as NVIDIA in particular needs to adjust to these new cards.

The catch however is that what we don’t have is a level of clear domination when it comes to single-card solutions. AMD was shooting to beat the GTX 295 with the 5870, but in our benchmarks that’s not happening. The 295 and the 5870 are close, perhaps close enough that NVIDIA will need to reconsider their position, but it’s not enough to outright dethrone the GTX 295. NVIDIA still has the faster single-card solution, although the $100 price premium is well in excess of the <10% performance premium.

Meanwhile AMD is retiring the 4870 X2, which ended up beating the 5870 enough that we would consider it a competitor to the 5870. However, you can’t consider it if you can’t buy it.

[zalbard]

source: http://www.madshrimps.be/vbulletin/f22/amd-radeon-hd-5870-hd-5850-performance-chart-66465/

enjoy :)
Thanks!
Need new drivers for proper CF support it seems.

[cegras]

saaya: It's hard to see you base your conclusions on a techpowerup review that used 6 gb of ram on a 32 bit system - or am I missing something here?

[RaZz!]

Anand, bit-tech, Hcanucks,....., and it can´t beat easy the 4870x2.
With same specs, better clocks, and without de handicap of crossfire, i expected better performance in all games. So, yes, the results with the drivers used is a bit dissapointing.

even though the benchmarks show a pretty strong performance i tend to agree, atleast for now. if you consider that the 5870 is basically a 4870x2 in one chip (without crossfire which adds some sort of overhead etc) i still can't really think of a reason why the 5870 isn't faster than a 4870x2 most of the time :shrug:

i really hope performance increases with more mature drivers later on. or are we really looking at a bottleneck regarding the 256bit interface some people "predicted" prior the launch?

two 5870 in cf however look impressive. pretty good scaling considering the fact these use release drivers, especially compared to the scaling of the gts295 or two 285 in sli.

however, i'm really tempted to replace my 4850 with a 5870 - even if i don't know why, as everything i play atm runs fine on the 4850 :p: i think it's the charm of new hardware and dx11 (including compute shader etc...) :D

[Wesker]

dont know why, but i am not that impressed. Will def. wait for nvidia's response.

Sums up my feelings, exactly.

The performance isn't bad or anything (unlike the R600, for example), but it just isn't the "WOW!" that I was expecting. Perhaps, my expectations were set too high. But with the specs being double of RV790 (with the exception of bandwidth), I was expecting at least 1.9-2x the performance of RV790. Instead the performance is just under that figure, on average. Perhaps it's the early drivers or the memory bandwidth holding it back--But then again, RV770 was never bandwidth limited...

I may perhaps wait for GT300 or Hemlock. This HD4890 is still strong.

[jmke]

or am I missing something here?

that very few games require more than 2gb ? :)
HD 5850 is listed at €200 in Europe... 88% performance of the Radeon HD 5870 AND it outperforms the GTX 285 easily;
if you don't have a 30" screen and don't play on triple monitor carnage, the HD 5850 seems to be the card to go; all the other cards in the €150-200 bracket will have to reduce their prices to remain valuable as an option; any card over €200 which is not faster than HD 5850... don't buy.

[saaya]

I wonder if 5870CF is going to be faster than the 5870X2?first of all, there seem to be serious issues with 5800 xfire, so those numbers anandtech showed will def improve...
but overall, yes, 5870x2 will DEF be slower than 5870CF, always...
with 5870x2 your limited by power and heat, with 5870CF your not...


Anand, bit-tech, Hcanucks,....., and it can´t beat easy the 4870x2.
With same specs, better clocks, and without de handicap of crossfire, i expected better performance in all games. So, yes, the results with the drivers used is a bit dissapointing.
well, in some tests its 5% or 10% in the lead... but yes, its not clearly faster than the 4870x2... its more of a replacement for the 4870x2, and the fact that its single gpu makes it a good replacement even if it ONLY offers about the same perf... at least in my opinion... and xbit and anandtech seem to agree...

but yes, i also expected more... and im confused why the 5870 doesnt do better...


Unlike some people, I am of the opinion that history has shown that new drivers do not increase the performance of a single chip card unless there are issues to begin with. Dual GPU cards? Yes, new drivers definately increase performance in existing games.

Where single GPU cards get performance increases is with new games that hadn't been optimized in past drivers or fixing errors with performance in current games. One example of an issue is the HD 5870's HawX DX10.1 performance. I am sure that will be fixed in future revisions.

Otherwise, I will put money on the fact that the HD 5870 will never beat the HD 4870X2 on a regular basis even with driver revisions. There is a substantial bandwidth gap between the two making equalized performance next to impossible.check the xbitlabs article about this, called driver scaling with 4870 iirc... from half a year back... they showed that in several games perf had improved around 10%... thats not much, but if youd compare 8.7 to 9.9 im sure youd see more than a 10% boost for a 4870... probably around 15-20% in several games... and not just av fps, min fps has increased as well...

its unusual for this to happen though, and its nowhere near the perf jumps dual gpu setups make with driver updates, def agree on that...

looking at all results of the reviews ive seen so far, id say 4870x2 is roughly equal to a 5870, and 5870 is single gpu so thats making it the winner...
even if it will never beat the 4870x2 accorss the board, i dont care, its single gpu and thats worth more than 5% perf imo... especially if you look at what fps numbers we are talking about here... :D

my current impression after having read several reviews is this:
5870: fails to beat 295 and 4870x2, but does about the same with only 1 gpu... price needs to be reduced to 300-350$ then itll be a very sweet deal

5850: notably beats 285 at almost 100$ lower price, good deal for people who dont have a 285 or faster atm...

im really curious about 5740 or whatever juniper is called?
4890 perf at 99$ with dx11? :D


saaya: It's hard to see you base your conclusions on a techpowerup review that used 6 gb of ram on a 32 bit system - or am I missing something here?what does that have to do with anything :confused:
he probably has a 64bit partition but hes doing 32bit for now cause thats what he built his db with and he doesnt wanna mix 32 and 64bit...


that very few games require more than 2gb ? :)require? 0 :D
benefit? i only know of one, gta4, and that seems to only happen at mega res and in some scenarios...

HD 5850 is listed at €200 in Europe... 88% performance of the Radeon HD 5870 AND it outperforms the GTX 285 easily;
if you don't have a 30" screen and don't play on triple monitor carnage, the HD 5850 seems to be the card to go; all the other cards in the €150-200 bracket will have to reduce their prices to remain valuable as an option; any card over €200 which is not faster than HD 5850... don't buy.IF you dont have a gtx285 already... and even if you have a 4890 id rather wait than upgrade... i mean really, what for? what can you play with a 5850 that you cant play with a 4890 or even 4870?

[jmke]

what can you play with a 5850 that you cant play with a 4890 or even 4870?
only 2, Crysis, Crysis Warhead, with high IQ ;)

[Calmatory]

But with the specs being double of RV790 (with the exception of bandwidth), I was expecting at least 1.9-2x the performance of RV790. Instead the performance is just under that figure, on average.

Welcome to the real world. How could it possibly be "at least 2x" faster when NOT ANY of the specs go OVER 2x when compared to RV790?

Indeed, no way. You expected something which is not even possible, and now feel disappointed. Disappointed because of your overly-optimistic expectations.

Good luck next round, will be disappointed again, and again.

[SKYMTL]

check the xbitlabs article about this, called driver scaling with 4870 iirc... from half a year back... they showed that in several games perf had improved around 10%... thats not much, but if youd compare 8.7 to 9.9 im sure youd see more than a 10% boost for a 4870... probably around 15-20% in several games... and not just av fps, min fps has increased as well...

While I haven't read it, I am sure the games showing the most improvement are the ones that were either new releases or not even released when the HD 4870 was brought to market. ;)

[kiwi]

you talk as if those days are over :D
what do you think the 5870x2 and gt300 are going to cost when they come out? :D


Back then there were no x2 solutions cause x2 is just a cheat :p: Unless they drastically reduce power consumption.

With cpu cores they did that. More cores but +/- same power. But with GPUs they can't (yet). You get the point :) OK, going a bit offtopic here :)

[flippin_waffles]

Has anyone seen a review on anything other than an i7 cranked up to the absolute limit of the chip? Not sure about anyone else, but I don't have one, nor do I intend to get one. I'm also equally confident that not all users of i7 run them overclocked, in fact i'll bet that the vast majority don't. So while it's all good and nice to say that this is the only way to see what the potential of the card is, what about writing a review that caters to actual users? You know, with hardware settings that people can relate to. I don't give a siht how this card performs with an i7 trying to hit 4GHz, when I have a 955 running at stock, or a couple hundred MHz higher. How does all that do me any good if i'm trying to decide what kind of improvement i'll get in my system? How about some REAL WORLD performance guys? I keep seeing that bloody term being thrown about, and then see review after review trying to clock there cpu's to the stratosphere. Would some variety be so bad? Oh I know, "we are trying to eliminate the cpu bottleneck". Well most of us have a cpu bottneck! What kind of bizarre thinking is that?? Ok, sure it's nice to see the max potential of new hardware, but is it that critical that nobody can write a review that is helpful to the other 90% of the online population? Seems like kind of a no brainer to me. How about some stock settings guys?

Anyway, it's the same principal and failed logic that goes into deciding to review cpu's with game benchmarks at ultra low resolutions that would be run on 10 inch monitors 15 years ago. Why not just stick to cpu benchmarks to benchmark a cpu? JHC Who cares how fast a cpu will run a game at 640x480. Yeah yeah, I know, if you don't like it don't read it, or write your own review. But wouldn't a more practical approach smarter in the long term?

More to the point though, looks like this is a great card. :p:

[Boissez]

http://i37.tinypic.com/b5368y.png (http://www.madshrimps.be/vbulletin/f22/amd-radeon-hd-5870-hd-5850-performance-chart-66465/)
source: http://www.madshrimps.be/vbulletin/f22/amd-radeon-hd-5870-hd-5850-performance-chart-66465/

enjoy :)

Well either the 8800GT is 20% faster than the 9800GT... or the numbers are somehow wrong.

[kgk]

huh?
4870 and 4890 both oced well...
what were def clocks for 4890? 850mhz?
and they clocked to close to 1ghz on air... hows that bad ocing?

Close to?

They clocked well over 1Ghz. I have a Sapphire Toxic with a stock clock of 960mhz that easily runs 1030Mhz 24/7 on air. There are plenty of 4890's that do 1050Mhz on air 24/7 as well with good cooling.

Personally I'm not jumping to the 5000 series until we see a 5890 or better overclocks/cooling and more memory on the 5870. Almost always better to jump in after the revisions. Did the same when the 4870 was released. The initial 512MB cards were a joke, although quickly replaced with the 1GB versions. Still glad I held out for the 4890's, especially considering the cheap price and the performance jump.

The lack of any significant DX11 titles until next year, at which time we'll see a mature DX11 card selection make the purchase of the current 5800 lineup rather pointless for anyone with a decent card now.

All in all, still a very impressive offering. But I'm not jumping in until I see a top title like BF3, Rage, etc. that can bury a 4890 or GTX285 @ 1920x1200 or 2560x1600.

[kgk]

only 2, Crysis, Crysis Warhead, with high IQ ;)

I have yet to meet a single person who actually plays these titles. Everyone tried Crysis when it came out to see the new graphics. Then we all moved back to playing our multiplayer games like CoD, TF2, and L4D.

[Wesker]

Welcome to the real world. How could it possibly be "at least 2x" faster when NOT ANY of the specs go OVER 2x when compared to RV790?

Indeed, no way. You expected something which is not even possible, and now feel disappointed. Disappointed because of your overly-optimistic expectations.

Good luck next round, will be disappointed again, and again.

I was expecting further improvements efficiency. Not only does it share similar paper specifications as R700, but it also share's RV790's core clock speed.

R600 -> RV770 was impossible? :rolleyes: RV770's performance over R600 was greater than the 2.5x increase in the ALU count. Most of RV770's performance wins over R600 came from internal improvements in the chip design (most notable being the inclusion of hardware based MSAA resolve).

Years ago, were you also around saying that the performance of chips like Conroe, Hammer, Nehalem, R580, R300 and G80 were impossible?

...oh, and thanks for the attitude. :up:

[kgk]

require? 0 :D
benefit? i only know of one, gta4, and that seems to only happen at mega res and in some scenarios...

It starts to become noticeable at 1920x1200 with everything maxed. That is not a mega res. That's a very common gaming resolution today. At 2560x1600 it becomes a very noticeable problem in GTAIV. It's only going to become more noticeable with newer games that push the envelope further. So if I were to pick up a 5870, I'd much prefer it to have 2GB of memory.



IF you dont have a gtx285 already... and even if you have a 4890 id rather wait than upgrade... i mean really, what for? what can you play with a 5850 that you cant play with a 4890 or even 4870?

Exactly. Even if I were on a 3870 or 9800gtx, I'd still wait to see what's available in the spring. Then we'll actually have some selection of good games that will take advantage of DX11, more cards to choose from, and better prices thanks to increased competition.

[SKYMTL]

Has anyone seen a review on anything other than an i7 cranked up to the absolute limit of the chip?

I can get mine to 4.6Ghz but in-game stability gets thrown out the window and stability is what's needed for benchmarking.

[Mech0z]

i doubt 2gb will be faster, why should it? its not any faster for current gpus...
and i hope we will see better 3rd party heatsink soon as well...
?

http://www.fudzilla.com/images/stories/2009/September/General%20News/sapphire_hd5870vaporx_1.jpg That might be my next card :)

http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/15648/1/

[flopper]

Has anyone seen a review on anything other than an i7 cranked up to the absolute limit of the chip?
More to the point though, looks like this is a great card. :p:

sami ran the single-GPU X11364 score with CPU aircooled at 4GHz and a single 5870 at 1250MHz engine and 1390MHz memory.
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1080/15/

always someone pushing stuff....

[jmke]

I have yet to meet a single person who actually plays these titles. Everyone tried Crysis when it came out to see the new graphics. Then we all moved back to playing our multiplayer games like CoD, TF2, and L4D.

well you met me, so now you can no longer claim that;)
I've played through Crysis several times now;
Crysis Warhead was slightly less entertaining;

[jmke]

Well either the 8800GT is 20% faster than the 9800GT... or the numbers are somehow wrong.

very few samples of 8800 GT (only from Anand in comparison TO the HD 5870)
see the numbers always in reference to the HD 5870 results, as that card was ALWAYS available in all charts, however not all cards were in all result charts; the 8800 GT popped up, and I did find it useful to include as this card was quite popular :)


----------

I've not gone through all reviews out there, anybody encounter one where they actually run two/three monitors ?

[Boissez]

very few samples of 8800 GT (only from Anand in comparison TO the HD 5870)
see the numbers always in reference to the HD 5870 results, as that card was ALWAYS available in all charts, however not all cards were in all result charts; the 8800 GT popped up, and I did find it useful to include as this card was quite popular :)
I see - Wouldn't it be better though to merge the 8800 and 9800 numbers then? they're basicly the same cards anyway. Anyways many thanks for compiling this list - saves lazy guys like me a lot of time riffling through reviews :up:

[flippin_waffles]

I can get mine to 4.6Ghz but in-game stability gets thrown out the window and stability is what's needed for benchmarking.

I'm just saying, in a long winded way, what can I expect if i'm running a Phenom II 955 or 945 at stock, if I upgrade to this GPU? Or an Inel CPU at stock for that matter. Obviously it'll be faster, but then everyone already knew that. How much faster, is the benefit worth it? I haven't seen a review that answers that question. You'd think reviewers would clue in to the fact that not all people reading reviews, by a long shot, are users that run there equipment out of spec. So given the 20+ reviews out there, if you had a review that catered to the other 90% of the population, which one of the 20+ would get more views when those people search for answers?
And personally, i'd also like to see which platform is more efficient.

[strange|ife]

will probably be getting the 5850 after prices come down.

4870 512meg is decent, but struggles @ 1920 in some games

[Olivon]

OTH roxxx !

Thanks again :clap:

[Jamesrt2004]

I can get mine to 4.6Ghz but in-game stability gets thrown out the window and stability is what's needed for benchmarking.

meh you know what he means.. compare the percentage of people with normal C2D and C2Q's etc at normal 2.4~3.2 ghz compared to people with i7 @ like 4.2 lol

I like him and im sure a lot of other people would like to see results on say a Q6600 @ 3.2 or 3.6 or something a little more.. realistic for a lot of us :)

[HuffPCair]

wow very impressed. Seems like a great card from what 3Dguru is saying. Can't wait to see some XSers throw out some benchmarks.