Heater core or real rad?

[Underwater Mike]

Getting ready to start ordering the parts for my first water setup, and I'll probably have to do an external enclosure. I saw in THIS THREAD (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?postid=251834#post251834) that some of you guys are using a Chevy truck core with side-by-side 120mm fans. A few questions:

1) How tough is it to attach 1/2" fittings to a heater core? I can buy a small propane torch if I need to, but I have zero experience in that kind of thing.

2) What are the dimensions of that heater core? I need to plan for an enclosure.

3) Is making a shroud (or two) as much of a hassle as it sounds?

4) Between the parts and effort involved -- plus the likelihood that I'll mess up something -- would I be wiser to just spend a hundred bucks on a TC HE120.2 rad and throw some fans on that? I figure that the core plus fittings and materials would cost me about $50, not including the extras I'll need when I botch it the first time.

5) What do you think of THIS (http://www.galleria-e.com/cgi-bin/Colemans.storefront/3fbfcda302f9f6e6273fd81e6c0206d3/Product/View/134101) for the enclosure? Or should I go with a cheap Rubbermaid container?

Thanks.

[Karnivore]

1) If you've never worked with a torch/solder before it can be difficult and I would suggest going with something already setup. (Dtek Customs Procore is decent for teh $$$)

2) Sorry this i cannot answer, perhaps my bump will get more answers for you...

3) Fan shrouds aren't bad at all, for a cheap easy to make Tupperware Sandwich containers work well. Or you can use sheet metal or Pleaxi, but more work..

4) Don't think i would buy a 100 dollar Rad... Procore from Dtek is ready to go with a shroud for around 50, and works quite well.

5) Have you ever tried to make holes in a GI ammo can? thats some tough metal... I would use the tupperware if you want less work, wood, plexi, or a combination there of for a more custom external box.

Hope this helps...

[Poki]

Autozone carries a Ford mustang heatercore that is very similar. Not sure if i still have the box here but i'll look.
Anyway the main difference is it has 5/8" stubby nipples. All you need is two 5/8" adaptors.
If you have really cool people at "the zone" they'll let you go look at their heater cores. They have the dimensions on the box tag. IE: heightxwidthxdepth and fitting sizes!

[Poki]

I still have the box :)
Sold at Autozone: Ready-Air #39 9026 9.75" tallx 6" widex 2" deep 5/8" inlet and outlet. It has cross reference numbers too...
Napa #3102
4 Seasons #94584
Everco #2275
Stant #90260
Murray #279320
If i recall correctly it was $40. It's still in service running in the backside of a HP Netserver. No leaks and good quality!
I just checked Napa Online and their list is $27.99

[Craig]

The demensions of my rad (chevy truck one) are 11.25 X 6.375 X 2" and that includes the tanks at both ends. The finned area on mine are 9.25 X 6.375 X 2. There is however a second company that makes this core and the demensions ar a bit differant.

Finned area only: 9.5 X 6.125 X 2" so about .25" longer overall if the tanks are the same size as mine has, and they are pretty close from the pics I've seen of this core. This coe is also 1/4" narrower than mine.

Shrouds are not hard to make, most of all the ones from plexi. It's just a glued together box really that's open on one side.

Soldering isn't IMO all that hard to do. But I grew up on a farm and have used a torch all my life so perhaps that tilts my opinion. I soldered a repair job on my first raidiator (truck) when I was in my teens, it didn't leak and nothing else I've soldered has leaked. Perhaps I've been lucky, or just have a touch for torches and such.

And you can also glue the barbs in with a product called JBweld, a sort of epoxy made for use with metals.

Most of all you'll have the satisfaction of having made part of your cooling system yourself.

Best of luck.

[Lithan]

I found a PERFECT 6"x6"x2" beauty for under 20$ at pep boys (The chevette was out of stock so I explained my intent and they showed me two shelfs of heater cores from 18$ (chevette was cheapest) to 60$ and up. This was the best sized for a single 120 of 172mm fan. It is THE core for a front bottom mounted core in my opinion. It's a Ford replacement and the number was 39 8016. Cooling area is a perfect square for real easy shroud making, The inlet AND outlet are both 5/8's so no need for barbs if you dont want and real easy modding if you do. And the arrangement of the inlet and outlet pipes is a work of art. Both are at a 90* angle to the core itself if it stands, extending to the side almost symmetrically.

[Karnivore]

Nice find lithan, any possibilities of a pic or two?:thumbsup:

[Technik]

How much more performance is a BIX2 over a D-tek heatercore and shroud and is it worth it? I already have a D-tek rad and am thinking about adding a video block.

[Karnivore]

Originally posted by Technik
How much more performance is a BIX2 over a D-tek heatercore and shroud and is it worth it? I already have a D-tek rad and am thinking about adding a video block.

I cant't say the exact performance difference, having not used the BIX series of rads, but the Dtek Procore is a decent performer, and will easily handle CPU and GPU cooling chores, I hightly doubt the minimal gains would make the swap worthwhile.

Your wording in the description of your current Rad suggest your using a single shroud/fan on the procore, I would suggest a second shroud/fan as a more worthwhile upgrade.

[Technik]

So a push and pull config is the best for any rad? I just switched from a push to a pull config on a Black Ice rad and I noticed a drop in temps.

[Karnivore]

Well I've never bothered to test mine in any other config, but I couldn't imagine a single fan performing better then a pair...

[Underwater Mike]

Thanks for all the info, guys! Really helps a lot.

On that D-tek Pro, are those headless bolts (with the wing nuts) long enough to go through a shroud and fan on each side of the rad, in case I do a push-pull arrangement? And I wonder if that'd be big enough, since I want to have three blocks on the circuit (CPU, NB and VGA)?

Do you guys use hole saws, nibblers, or what? I have a 92mm hole saw, but the 120 is outrageously expensive, even though I'd rather use 120s on the rad. Also, any good pix of enclosures? I went through most of the water threads in the forum and saw some good examples, but a lot seem to be made from extra cases or pieces thereof. I'd like something a bit smaller...

One more: Any of you with external setups use quick-connect fittings on the external connections? I like that feature of the Exos and was wondering if it's practical on a homebrew setup?

Thanks again.

[Marci]

Do you guys use hole saws, nibblers, or what? I have a 92mm hole saw, but the 120 is outrageously expensive, even though I'd rather use 120s on the rad

Hole Saws for > 92mm
Jigsaw for anything over 92mm
Nibbler for basic window work
Jigsaw for window detail work
Dremel for ultra-detail work...

Detail/Finishing Files for edge-finishing.

[Karnivore]

Originally posted by Mike Donatello


On that D-tek Pro, are those headless bolts (with the wing nuts) long enough to go through a shroud and fan on each side of the rad, in case I do a push-pull arrangement? And I wonder if that'd be big enough, since I want to have three blocks on the circuit (CPU, NB and VGA)?

The bolts they supply are only long enough for a single shroud, if you want to do the dual shroud you'll have to get some threaded rod from home depot type store. ProCore should be fine with the 3 blocks...




Originally posted by Mike Donatello
Do you guys use hole saws, nibblers, or what? I have a 92mm hole saw, but the 120 is outrageously expensive, even though I'd rather use 120s on the rad.

Nope I use a dremel, jigsaw and files, hole saws are quite nice though.


Originally posted by Mike Donatello
Also, any good pix of enclosures? I went through most of the water threads in the forum and saw some good examples, but a lot seem to be made from extra cases or pieces thereof. I'd like something a bit smaller...

I've seen quite a few different external boxes, some so detailed and thoght out they seem more art then utility. Others simple working boxes.. I think the best thing here is to use your imagination, come up with something that work for you.


Originally posted by Mike Donatello
One more: Any of you with external setups use quick-connect fittings on the external connections? I like that feature of the Exos and was wondering if it's practical on a homebrew setup?

Thanks again.

I've not seen any quick connects in use, valves could probably be used with less restriction to flow rates...

[Underwater Mike]

Hmm, what do you think of getting a generic, cheapo case with its own PSU for the enclosure? That way I can offload the pump and fans onto the generic PSU and take some of the burden off my Antec, which is about at its limit now.

Micro Center has a cheapie for $29 with a PSU (http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0161633). Should be more than enough room for everything I need, and I may create some molex extension cables to take the fans from the main case off that PSU and put it on the cooling box PSU. Since the cheap-o is powering only fans I don't really care about the quality of the power.

Do you all use a relay to start the pump, or just stick with separate power? Sorry for all the odd questions. Prolly should stick with a kit...

[Karnivore]

Should work just fine, a few others here have done pretty much the same thing, My H2O rig is all in my case and I'm considering making an external box, quite a few advantages to it the way I look at it.

[Underwater Mike]

Yeah, much cheaper at Napa!

Poki, how do you have fans mounted on there? It's wide enough for a 120 but half again as long. Do you have a shroud that attenuates the size down to 1x120, or do you have two 92s on there? Pix? :D


Originally posted by Poki
I still have the box :)
Sold at Autozone: Ready-Air #39 9026 9.75" tallx 6" widex 2" deep 5/8" inlet and outlet. It has cross reference numbers too...
Napa #3102
4 Seasons #94584
Everco #2275
Stant #90260
Murray #279320
If i recall correctly it was $40. It's still in service running in the backside of a HP Netserver. No leaks and good quality!
I just checked Napa Online and their list is $27.99

[Underwater Mike]

Forgot to mention, but I'm now considering mounting everything to pegboard and using a couple heavy bushings or thin pipe sections to create standoffs about 2" from the side of my case. This way, eveything will hang off the side without the added bulk of another case under the desk. I'll either screw or zip-tie the rad, rez and pump to the board.

Thoughts?

(P.S., If I go that route, I'll be cutting down on the CPU, NB and vid fans, so I figured the PSU would be okay, rather than getting a separate PSU.)

[Poki]

Originally posted by Mike Donatello
Yeah, much cheaper at Napa!

Poki, how do you have fans mounted on there? It's wide enough for a 120 but half again as long. Do you have a shroud that attenuates the size down to 1x120, or do you have two 92s on there? Pix? :D

It has 2x120's mounted outside, w/no shroud sucking out. They're secured with with 2 zipties, one runs through the radiator/fan and then just a tie head secures it to prevent heatercore damage... I'll look for a pic.

[Poki]

Not very good pics but i hope they do, it's simple but effective.

[Poki]

2

[Underwater Mike]

Thanks for the pix!

Maybe I misread the dimensions of the rad? Looks like it's a perfect fit? I thought the fans side-by-side would be too long.

Looks like you have a big case, too. What is it?

[Poki]

That's an OLD HP Netserver case. It's like two full ATX's side by side.. Prolly 1991/92 vintage, it was a p60 dualie with a mess of SCSI2's. Right now it has a SIS655/P4 setup in it.
Michigan State University has a surplus extention i like to visit and browse for cheap goodies.
I get pretty good deals there from time to time. If not, i atleast see some neat old stuff.

[Underwater Mike]

Poki, I was looking at some large cases like that, but since I'm anticipating buying a new, BTX-form setup in a year, I can't justify the cost. :(

Just ordered the core from Napa (no one had one locally) so I guess I'm committed! Can I stretch 1/2" ID tubing over the 5/8" in-/outlet, or do I need adapters?

Also, investigated the plexiglass option, but it's around $40 for a 2' x 4' sheet, which seems steep (given that I'll probably scar it up). I could do something in nice wood for that much. Pegboard, painted gloss back, seems much more reasonable. Either that or something chez Rubbermaid.

Any opinion on quick-connect vs. barbed fittings? Seems like Swiftec makes the most popular of the former, while everybody has the latter?

[Poki]

You should be able to find 5/8-1/2" polyprop/nylon barbed nipples at a good hardware store. Just grab a foot of 5/8" hose to hook them up. As far as quick connects go, i would avoid them for the possible lower flow rate and the price difference.
But if you want them, just get them. :0
As far as a case goes, you would be suprised how *cheap*(less tan $20) you can find old servers for and convert them over to ATX. They're quite heavy though!

[Underwater Mike]

Okay, here are a couple thoughts on mounting, keeping the same old case and forgoing the left side window. :( Any thoughts on my two versions of mounting the 2 x 120mm fans and rad/shroud onto the side of the case? I'd use some reinforcement on the inside of the door, and my entire case is lined with relatively ineffective but expensive Akasa Paxmate.

My thinking on the second one is to use the draw of the 2 x 120mm to pull air in through a filter in the front, past the drives, and save on noise by pulling those fans altogether. Blowhole, rear 80mm and PSU fans stay as-is.

[Technik]

It is best to have cool air pulling into the rad for the best temps since the air coming in is barely warm.