View Full Version : Chiller/ac unit
Pimpsho
11-20-2003, 06:23 PM
ok i just received my ac unit today and took some pics of the compressor...i had it on for like 5 minutes and it doesnt seem to be gettin as cold as i thought it would maybe i struck out? i took a pic of the compressor for u guys....
keep in mind i was in a lil hurry to open her up;) shes a lil messy
http://home.comcast.net/~c.brander/acunit.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~c.brander/compressorinfo.jpg
Pimpsho
11-20-2003, 06:33 PM
trully sorry for the pics i cant downsize them as of now
water_cooler 20
11-21-2003, 04:53 AM
the only way to make it as cold as possible is to take the thermostat off or maybe put the temp probe on the bottom of the compressor to fool it
Thats a nice looking comprossor:D looks like a 3/4 hp com
berkut
11-21-2003, 05:43 AM
remove the fan of the evaporator, she'll get MUCH colder
Gary Lloyd
11-21-2003, 09:46 AM
Pimpsho, you wouldn't happen to be in the Detroit area, would you?
(Thinking uranus describes the heart of the city... LOL)
mrnuke
11-21-2003, 03:50 PM
thats the same compressor i have in my window ac unit
Pimpsho
11-21-2003, 04:30 PM
ya ok i finally had time to mess with it today.
i turn it on for bout 3-5 minutes then the compressor turns on and everything becomes cooler....then after about another 5-6minuts of it being on the cap tubes gets nice and frosty...but after it gets frosty the frost starts going away then theres no frost but its still kickin out cold air...any one got an idea why it would go away?
You can look up the compressor on LG's site.;)
Pimpsho
11-21-2003, 05:27 PM
hey vlad do u have a thread on ur chiller? if so hook me up with a link buddy i wana get some ideas.
Gary Lloyd
11-21-2003, 05:29 PM
but after it gets frosty the frost starts going away then theres no frost but its still kickin out cold air...any one got an idea why it would go away?
Because you didn't saw off the front motor shaft, which powers the evaporator fan, yet. Saw it off and remove the evaporator fan.
What are the dimensions of the evaporator?
Gary Lloyd
11-21-2003, 05:43 PM
I'm almost afraid to ask for pictures, but I don't care what the compressor looks like. I want to see the evaporator.
Pimpsho
11-21-2003, 05:44 PM
aite leme install my photoshop here so i dont get ne more crying;) just playin guys ill resize the above photos in a jiffy
Pimpsho
11-21-2003, 06:18 PM
more pics as u requested sizes.....as u like i hope..
http://home.comcast.net/~c.brander/condesorside.jpg http://home.comcast.net/~c.brander/size1.jpg http://home.comcast.net/~c.brander/size2.jpg
Pimpsho
11-21-2003, 07:38 PM
some more pics also can u guys tell me how this is flowing... like what is the big part that looks like an inflated balloon i think bowman called it the umm dry someting...cant remeber but ill show u a pic...http://home.comcast.net/~c.brander/startup.jpg
Pimpsho
11-21-2003, 07:39 PM
ok in the middle of the picture towards the compressor...(right side of compressor) what is that called and what does that do?
Pimpsho
11-21-2003, 07:41 PM
hers some pics u guys will enjoy...or atleast i had a big grin on my face;) lowest temps my eyes have seen in person. I think im umm...already umm whats the word im looking for? ADDICTED to this stuff:toast:
http://home.comcast.net/~c.brander/temps.jpg
Pimpsho
11-21-2003, 07:41 PM
thought this was funny...
http://home.comcast.net/~c.brander/warning.jpg
-26c is around what mine got to exposed like that. once you submerge the evap in a liquid like alcohol the temp will drop a lot more. mine got down to -42.7c. looks good bud, keep us posted.:cool:
Originally posted by water_cooler 20
the only way to make it as cold as possible is to take the thermostat off or maybe put the temp probe on the bottom of the compressor to fool it
What i do is remove the thermostat completely. the power switch feeds thru the thermostat to the compressor, if you remove the thermostat and go directly to the switch the comp will only go off
when you trun it off.;) i've had no problems running them 24/7
once it gets to its lowest temp the comp seems to quiet down a little and get cool to the touch.
Gary Lloyd
11-21-2003, 09:51 PM
Check this out:
http://www.usplastic.com
Click on "rubbermaid". Click on "insulated coolers". Click on "12 can insulated cooler".
I wonder if the evaporator would fit into the 12 can cooler.
water_cooler 20
11-21-2003, 09:56 PM
the link just goes to the home page
Gary Lloyd
11-21-2003, 10:17 PM
Yeah I tried to go direct. While you're in there look around. All sorts of good stuff.
water_cooler 20
11-21-2003, 10:23 PM
i think his evap is to long since his evap is around 14.6 and the tank is 14.59 wide it might be a tight fit
Gary Lloyd
11-21-2003, 10:29 PM
The tank is 19.7" wide and 14.6" tall.
mrnuke
11-21-2003, 11:08 PM
gary, thank you sooooooooooo much, i was looking for a cooler, but now that you stumbled upon this, and it is quite a nice size! I'm in the same situation. Would u recommend that you put a barb on the bottom to take the water out?
mrnuke
11-21-2003, 11:09 PM
btw, what do you recommend for liquid in the loop?
Originally posted by mrnuke
btw, what do you recommend for liquid in the loop?
I use denatured alcohol & proplyene glycol. rather then putting a barb on the bottom where it might leak i go in the side near the top. i use a submersable pump but you can still do it with an inline
pump by running a pickup hose to the bottom.
Gary Lloyd
11-21-2003, 11:39 PM
Anyway, I'm thinking the next step should be to cut that shaft right back close to the motor. You won't be needing that anymore. And all of that styrofoam can be removed. Then we can think about what size/shape container we need for a reservoir.
Gary Lloyd
11-21-2003, 11:46 PM
gary, thank you sooooooooooo much, i was looking for a cooler, but now that you stumbled upon this, and it is quite a nice size! I'm in the same situation. Would u recommend that you put a barb on the bottom to take the water out?
I have seen these coolers in the stores. They are sold everywhere. If at all possible, everything should go through the top lid.
Pimpsho
11-21-2003, 11:56 PM
yes i am trying to think of the best way to move the condenssor into a cooler the tubes from the condensor going to the compresoor are low so what would u guys recomend me doing in order to let the condensor slide into the cooler? up for ne ideas if u have ne thing let me know cuz ill be cuttin and doin this within a matter of hours just runnin ideas through my head as of now...
Gary Lloyd
11-22-2003, 12:19 AM
The condenser? Don't you mean the evaporator?
berkut
11-22-2003, 03:30 AM
You can make a reserviour of plexiglas and glueing it with plexi meled in acetone...
\/icious
11-22-2003, 07:21 AM
hey pimpsho. where did you get it and what size is it?
Pimpsho
11-22-2003, 09:40 AM
@gary: ya the evaporator...i was drinkin last night and sat down and tried to describe what i was thinkin ...
@berkut: i was trying to see if i could have it in an insulated res but ive made a plexi glass res for my 2rads and L30 b4 so if all else fails i could plolly build one arround the evaporator.
@ viocous i got her off ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2358331840&category=20711&rd=1
Pimpsho
11-22-2003, 09:43 AM
ok guys got a quick question. how would i bend the copper tubbing without breaking it? is it possible to do by hand?
Very slowly! take your time. i do it all by hand. dont try to bend any sharp radius. copper bends easy, watch for kinks.
Pimpsho
11-22-2003, 10:04 AM
sweet! ya ill be takin it slow i got all day to get the evap into a cooler;)
Gary Lloyd
11-22-2003, 02:58 PM
Did you get that styrofoam out of the way so we can see how much room we have?
Slickthellama
11-22-2003, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
I'm almost afraid to ask for pictures, but I don't care what the compressor looks like. I want to see the evaporator.
Im pretty close to you. Im in Troy. :D
Pimpsho
11-22-2003, 03:34 PM
ok im gona buy a tube bender...dont wana risk lookin the good stuff inside the pipes! i hope home depot has what im lookin for
Pimpsho
11-22-2003, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
Did you get that styrofoam out of the way so we can see how much room we have?
ya leme get a snap shot
Pimpsho
11-22-2003, 03:46 PM
here it is with the fan takin out now we got some room to work!
Gary Lloyd
11-22-2003, 03:48 PM
Im pretty close to you. Im in Troy.
Hello from Trenton. Wavin at ya. :D
mrnuke
11-22-2003, 03:48 PM
ok, i started my project today, and i'll have pics up a bit later. I found one of those coolers at target for 10 bux and my evap will fit perfectly. I made some mods to the ac unit by cutting the shaft down, and clearing some of the fan molding off. I was gonna get a danner mag 5, and since u say to go all through the top, will it suck up the liquid? or does it have to be submerged?
Gary Lloyd
11-22-2003, 04:00 PM
This is going to take some creative bending to get it in a cooler. We can try to get just the evaporator in a small cooler, or we can use a large cooler and put both the evaporator and the suction line in it. Either way, a bending tool is a very good thing to have. Keep in mind that the weak spot is the connections. We want to bend the tubes without breaking the braze joints.
Pimpsho
11-22-2003, 04:33 PM
ok i have a good idea but i duno if it is possible... ok if u see in this pic the capillary tubbing is low and also coiled up... now im trying to have all the stuff goin in through the lid of the cooler and i duno what the big tube is thats comming off the top of the evap but that ends up goin towards the top of the compressor. so my idea is to have the cooler butting up right next to the compressor so that i dont have to bend ne tubbing except for the cap tubing. now im wondering if its going to be possible to unravel the captubbing just enough to run up the big tube that it is zip tied to or is it not possible? my thoughts are that the cap tube will kink or be kinda twisted if i unravel it a lil..
Gary Lloyd
11-22-2003, 04:46 PM
Cap tubing is no problem at all. You can bend it all over the place without kinking or breaking it. Just be careful not to put stress on the ends of the cap tube. That is where it can break. You can also easily bend the small tube that the cap tube is attached to (with your bending tool). But again, just be careful of the point where they connect to each other.
Pimpsho
11-22-2003, 04:50 PM
ok im gona go do it also just so i know...whats gona happen if i break a joint? how bad is freon?
Gary Lloyd
11-22-2003, 04:59 PM
If it breaks, just back up and let it blow. Liquid on your skin can cause frostbite. The refrigerant is non-toxic, but avoid breathing it anyway. It contains no oxygen, and you need oxygen. Open a window. Wear gloves and goggles, just in case.
Gary Lloyd
11-22-2003, 07:04 PM
In the picture you have added the words "move cap tubing up here". To the right of the word "up" there is a 45 degree bend in the suction line. Use your bending tool to straighten out the tubing, removing that bend. This will move the suction line away from the compressor, giving you a lot more room. Then you won't have to sit the cooler on top of the compressor base.
Pimpsho
11-22-2003, 07:22 PM
alright so ive been trying to find a cooler to see how far i need to bend these tubes lil as possible i struck out tonight at sears so ill head back to home depot for a cooler of somesort...thanks for all the help gary u da man:toast:
Gary Lloyd
11-22-2003, 08:05 PM
mrnuke... Where are those pics you promised us? :D
Gary Lloyd
11-22-2003, 08:29 PM
ok in the middle of the picture towards the compressor...(right side of compressor) what is that called and what does that do?
that can is called a "RECEIVER" its basicly a holding tanks for excess freon or r22 in your case .. this requires a high amont to be used to chargew the setup and aids in keeping a constant flow of freon at all times I would think.. PC directdie units almost neevr have these as they casue too much hastle.. anything else I forgot to add or was off on the masters can answer for ya
Nope. I haven't gotten a good look at it, but it will be either a suction drier, or far more likely, an accumulator. Receivers are not used on cap tube systems.
Pimpsho
11-22-2003, 09:23 PM
lil more progress!! cap tubbing ready to go...im gona bend that 90 degree angle in a few! hope fully well be talkin chilled water tomaro if nothing gets in my way!
Pimpsho
11-22-2003, 09:24 PM
and gary this is what i was talking about...the thing all covered in frost is what?
ellsworth
11-22-2003, 09:52 PM
Originally posted by MickeyMouse
that can is called a "RECEIVER" its basicly a holding tanks for excess freon or r22 in your case ;).. this requires a high amont to be used to chargew the setup and aids in keeping a constant flow of freon at all times I would think.. PC directdie units almost neevr have these as they casue too much hastle.. anything else I forgot to add or was off on the masters can answer for ya
yes and no. that is an accumulator which is included to prevent liquid from entering the compressor. these are commonly used in ac units becasue of varying ambient temperature and heatloads (ie ac setting etc.). since you cant charge for a specific heatload you have to have an operating range for the system to work with. when the heatload is low (evaporator fan on slow, or high ambeint temperature) not all the liquid will evaporate and can
back up to the compressor, an accumulator prevents this. this is also common with expantion valve throttled systems where liquid slugging can be a problem on startup because the sensor bulb hasnt been cooled enough.
off topic:
freon = r12
if (refrigerant != r12)
{
refrigerant != freon
}
Pimpsho
11-22-2003, 10:04 PM
ahh gotcha!! so i assume the machI and II have these to right? since ur heat load varries whith full load and idle? thanks for the good info ellsworth ur one smart guy...good to have u on the forums helping us noobs out!!!
ellsworth
11-22-2003, 10:11 PM
prometia's use somthing similar to prevent this without actually using an accumulator. they make a sharp bend in the pipe (u-shape) right before the inlet so that the liquid can collect and boil off before entering the compressor. the heatload doesnt vary enough i dont think to need an actual accumulator.
mrnuke
11-22-2003, 10:56 PM
Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
mrnuke... Where are those pics you promised us? :D
commin tomorrow, can't find my camera....... but i will have them tomorrow :) thanks for that 12 can cooler recommendation, fits PERFECT!:toast: :D
berkut
11-23-2003, 02:16 AM
Pimpsho - i hope you have A LOT of STRONG anti corrosion additives as i see at least 4 metals there... aluminium, copper, steel and Zn (dunno the english name) wich is the coating on the steel... add brass on the joints... ouch
ellsworth
11-23-2003, 02:36 AM
anti-corrosion = antifreeze
anti freeze is made for anti corrosion so your radiator doesnt corrode, and i think it is the glycol that makes it to where water cant react. the glycol fills the bonds so the water is saturated, if i remember my chemistry correctly. you need antifreeze anyways so you kill 2 birds with one stone.
berkut
11-23-2003, 06:26 AM
anti-corrosion = antifreeze
nope, not always... glycol isnt the anti corrosion part of a antifreeze... neither is alcohol... its in antifreeze to lower the point where water freezes up ... there are special additives in a system wich dont let corrosion occur, there are different types of antifreeze's, like for full aluminium systems, aluminium-s'steel, copper/ aluminium etc. i qould go for copper-aluminium systems antifreeze, a highly concentrated one. And i wouldnt use water to make it less dense but pure ethyl alcohol
mrnuke
11-23-2003, 10:07 AM
Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
mrnuke... Where are those pics you promised us? :D
anyone know how many posts you have to have in order to post pictures on here? I got a few, but i can't put them up :(
Pimpsho
11-23-2003, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by berkut
nope, not always... glycol isnt the anti corrosion part of a antifreeze... neither is alcohol... its in antifreeze to lower the point where water freezes up ... there are special additives in a system wich dont let corrosion occur, there are different types of antifreeze's, like for full aluminium systems, aluminium-s'steel, copper/ aluminium etc. i qould go for copper-aluminium systems antifreeze, a highly concentrated one. And i wouldnt use water to make it less dense but pure ethyl alcohol
well i can be xtra sure and have some anti corrosion in the water and anti freeze to be sure... what kinda stuff is out there that works berkut? or do u use it?
berkut
11-23-2003, 11:10 AM
hmmm i would use G40 or G60 (for VW) or how's it called anti freeze. And as pure as you can get ethyl alcohol like i said. Soon ill do some testing beacause im planning to build in a water chiller and direct die chipset cooler to the cascade.
hatemi
11-23-2003, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by mrnuke
anyone know how many posts you have to have in order to post pictures on here? I got a few, but i can't put them up :(
Ive had it for quite some time...maeby after 20 posts or so.
mrnuke
11-23-2003, 11:25 AM
damnit, it won't let me post pictures inbetween options and rate this fourm, there is supposed to be a picture one, but i don't have that option :(
mrnuke
11-23-2003, 11:52 AM
http://64.81.234.201/ac 1.jpg http://64.81.234.201/ac 2.jpg
mrnuke
11-23-2003, 12:03 PM
yay, there ya go gary :)
Karnivore
11-23-2003, 12:06 PM
Excellent thread guys, nice pics, keep them coming :)
mrnuke
11-23-2003, 12:06 PM
will do, gonna work on it some more later on, gotta do some drillin and fittin so i can seal it up and the liquid will not evaporate
berkut
11-23-2003, 12:14 PM
Damn, thats a perfect fit !
mrnuke
11-23-2003, 12:16 PM
yeah, Gary mentioned it and it fit my demensions perfect. Does anyone know what liquid to use so it won't freeze up. I am guessiong i can get temps in the -40c range.
water_cooler 20
11-23-2003, 12:33 PM
go w/ winter grade anti-freeze
Pimpsho
11-23-2003, 12:35 PM
dude how did u bend the tubes liek taht there so hard....and thats a exact replica of mine...have u put ne water in there yet or anti freeze?
berkut
11-23-2003, 01:29 PM
Use winter grade anti freeze for aluminium copper systems
And if its a concentrate use alcohol with it
Pimpsho
11-23-2003, 01:46 PM
Originally posted by berkut
Use winter grade anti freeze for aluminium copper systems
And if its a concentrate use alcohol with it
alcohol as in like §§§§ i drink? but like 60% alcohol?
berkut
11-23-2003, 02:21 PM
i would use more like >90% alcohol
Pimpsho
11-23-2003, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by berkut
i would use more like >90% alcohol
im not 21 yet...and what would i get ne ways.... everclear? or is nail polish remover good stuff?
mrnuke
11-23-2003, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by Pimpsho
dude how did u bend the tubes liek taht there so hard....and thats a exact replica of mine...have u put ne water in there yet or anti freeze?
kinda funny, unclip the coiled return line and use that, but for the cap line, all i did was bend it by hand very carefully (kinda hard to do when you are used to tearing eveyone appart on the football field) I took my time and just bent it slowly and not to put the same pressure on the same part of the tube. If you go slow, watch for kinks, that copper is very forgiving. just my $.02
mrnuke
11-23-2003, 02:44 PM
and btw pimpsho, i don't have anything in there yet, i still gotta get a pump, the blocks and cut out a notch so the return line and the cap line won't get in the way. So I still have lots of stuff to do. I'll be sure to take some pic's of it too :)
Pimpsho
11-23-2003, 02:59 PM
where did u score the cooler?
mrnuke
11-23-2003, 03:38 PM
target for 10 bux :) its one of those rubbermaids that fits a 12 pack of pop and fits in the car. Gary mentioned it and i looked into it. Perfect fit w/o a big bulky cooler
Originally posted by Pimpsho
im not 21 yet...and what would i get ne ways.... everclear? or is nail polish remover good stuff?
Use 100% denatured alcohol. you can get it at any hardware store, Ace/ trunvalue/ homedepot, look in paint dept in solvents.
Pimpsho
11-23-2003, 04:49 PM
alright in heading to get a cooler now and some anti freeze and the denatured alcohol!
If you go to homedepot look for this instead of auto antifreeze. its way better. and cheaper too!
Gary Lloyd
11-23-2003, 05:48 PM
mrnuke, congrats. Its a thing of beauty. :toast: :D
What is the make and model of your A/C? That looks like it would be the one I would recommend.
If you can make the coil sit in there kitty corner, you can pump your coolant in one end of the cooler and out the other. That would force the cooland to circulate through the coil, making it more efficient.
Gary Lloyd
11-23-2003, 05:59 PM
Pimpsho, unfortunately yours is not an exact duplicate. Your tubing runs in entirely different and very inconvenient directions. But with a tubing bender, some careful planning, and even more careful bending, we can do this. :D
Pimpsho
11-23-2003, 06:06 PM
aite well i got some goodies!!! first something u guys have seen somewhere b4 i think;) (special thanks to gary and mrnuke on the find!)
Pimpsho
11-23-2003, 06:08 PM
then the stuff to make it all happen
mrnuke
11-23-2003, 06:08 PM
its a kenmore 5250btu unit model # 580.74053, and what do you mean by the coil sitting there? if you can just copy my pic and circle what you wan me to do. Thanks
mrnuke
11-23-2003, 06:09 PM
nice pimpsho, tell me how the denatured alcahol works for ya, i don't have the time this week, but i'll be back at it next week
P.S. LOL look at that target bag, COPY CAT! but good for you man, can't wait to see how ours turn out!
Pimpsho
11-23-2003, 06:28 PM
Originally posted by mrnuke
nice pimpsho, tell me how the denatured alcahol works for ya, i don't have the time this week, but i'll be back at it next week
P.S. LOL look at that target bag, COPY CAT! but good for you man, can't wait to see how ours turn out!
lol the bag was for the gun i got....i carried that cooler out in style;) the clerkwas like its a lil cold for a cooler isnt it? im like u can never be to cold:) she didnt get it so i just walked off...i woulda felt stupid saying its for my computer...haha:stick:
Pimpsho
11-23-2003, 06:31 PM
Originally posted by vlad
If you go to homedepot look for this instead of auto antifreeze. its way better. and cheaper too!
what is that stuff exactly? im not to hyped about the phat warning label on the denatured alcohol lol... I dont like it when stuff has the skull and crossbones on it...;) but ill give it a go
mrnuke
11-23-2003, 06:32 PM
lol, but thats the best!
Originally posted by mrnuke
tell me how the denatured alcahol works for ya,
I've been using denatured alcohol @ -43c and it works great. NO slush what so ever.:up:
Originally posted by Pimpsho
what is that stuff exactly? im not to hyped about the phat warning label on the denatured alcohol lol... I dont like it when stuff has the skull and crossbones on it...;) but ill give it a go
Antifreeze for heating systems thats all. its no more poisonous
then auto antifreeze & its better & cheaper. all this crap will kill you if you drink it. :D
mrnuke
11-24-2003, 03:51 PM
here ya go pimpsho
http://64.81.234.201/ac 3.jpg http://64.81.234.201/ac 4.jpg http://64.81.234.201/ac 5.jpg
mrnuke
11-24-2003, 03:53 PM
damnit, i gotta host them :( they will be up in a bit
Pimpsho
11-24-2003, 05:46 PM
send em to me;) nuke c.brander@attbi.com
mrnuke
11-24-2003, 05:50 PM
sent em, u can post them up if you want, gotta figure out how to host them myslef :(
mrnuke
11-24-2003, 06:14 PM
k, they are up on this thred. I will have more to come this weeked
Pimpsho
11-24-2003, 06:24 PM
ok well i didnt get to make it to home depot to pick up the pipe benders.... but if u guys maybe could post a good set of them then ill have something to look for....thanks:D
Gary Lloyd
11-24-2003, 07:49 PM
Here's what they look like:
http://www.rparts.com/Catalog/Tools_&_Equipment/benders.asp
Scroll down to the 3 in 1 benders. That's what you need. If you shop around, you can find them a lot cheaper.
You will be amazed at how easy it makes the bending.
mrnuke
11-24-2003, 07:50 PM
Gary, can you please specify what you mean my coiling something up to make it more efficent again. I am a vapor n00b
Gary Lloyd
11-24-2003, 07:53 PM
mrnuke... What I was suggesting is that you put the evaporator in the cooler diagonally, so that the coolant flows through it instead of around it.
mrnuke
11-24-2003, 07:59 PM
what is the difference, by having it in diagonally is that better flow for the freon?
Gary Lloyd
11-24-2003, 08:03 PM
No, for the coolant (anti-freeze mixture).
If you pump the coolant in on one side of the evaporator, and out on the other side of the evaporator, then it has to go through the evaporator and get colder.
Gary Lloyd
11-24-2003, 08:07 PM
I'm not sure if I am making this clear. The evaporator should be vertical, as it is now, but just turn it a little so the ends are against the sides of the cooler.
Pimpsho
11-24-2003, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
I'm not sure if I am making this clear. The evaporator should be vertical, as it is now, but just turn it a little so the ends are against the sides of the cooler.
hes just saying so the coolant has to be forced through the fins of the evap it has nothing todo with the freon or r-22... hes just saying if the liquid goes through the evap fins it has a chance to get a lil colder or stay at a cooler temp under load...
Pimpsho
11-24-2003, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
Here's what they look like:
http://www.rparts.com/Catalog/Tools_&_Equipment/benders.asp
Scroll down to the 3 in 1 benders. That's what you need. If you shop around, you can find them a lot cheaper.
You will be amazed at how easy it makes the bending.
lol wana leme borrow urs;) jk i think i might have to pull off another 12hr day at work to catch up on some lil things...i will get them either tomaro or wensday!! and get this pig going dangit..i hate getting slowed down. ne ways garry ur such a big help and everyone else on this forum as well. its nice to have so many people with so many wonderfull ideas!!
luihed
11-24-2003, 09:18 PM
Good work there guys..... This thread is excellent for someone who's just starting to make a chiller...... one question though and sorry if its off topic, H0w come there arent many who uses windshield wiper fluid, ive seen ones that are good to -45c and its alot cheaper than antifreeze..... also isnt alcohol a lil dangerous especialy if your pump is submerge in it? thanks....
Gary Lloyd
11-24-2003, 09:36 PM
Windshield washer fluid is methanol alcohol mixed with water. It can be strengthened, if needed, with gas line anti-freeze, which is pure methanol. Many of the chillers in this forum are using this and it seems to work very well. I take it the concern here is the effects that this may have on the aluminum fins and/or the steel endplates. I know very little about the subject, so I'm just sitting back and watching. :D
Redwolf
11-24-2003, 10:57 PM
Some one should try d-Limonene
http://www.floridachemical.com/
BMORIN
11-25-2003, 09:49 AM
GREAT THREAD! Keep it going!
I've been researching into doing one myself so this has been great to follow.
mrnuke
11-25-2003, 03:57 PM
I got my new danner mag 5! also, gary, in the picture of the evap, do you want it diagnol side to side like that in the red or up and down (elavation) for the way you were trying to explain to me?
http://64.81.234.201/pump.jpg http://64.81.234.201/acevap.jpg
Gary Lloyd
11-25-2003, 04:56 PM
Yes, side to side just as in the red line. This divides the cooler into two triangular shaped compartments. If you pump your coolant into one of those compartments and out of the other, then the coolant is forced to flow through the evaporator.
mrnuke
11-25-2003, 04:57 PM
thanks a lot, glad we could clear that up
Pimpsho
11-26-2003, 06:13 PM
well sorry to say but all the good stuff is gone....i was almost done and i had it in the cooler when i here this PSSSTTTT and white stuff goins everywhere and now all i have is an empty ac unit....ill post a pic of where it broke...
Pimpsho
11-26-2003, 06:21 PM
well gary was right right next to the brazing
:rolleyes: well now it looks like i get to tweak it right? is there any thing u guys could ponder up todo that would make this thing chill better then b4? im up for ne ideas or would u guys just say get it all setup and bend it all up to fit inside the cooler then have someone fix the leak then fill it up again? how much for a refill of r-22 or whatever i could put in it for better temps without having to do a big overhaul on the hole thing...
Pimpsho
11-26-2003, 06:36 PM
pic
Pimpsho
11-26-2003, 06:37 PM
this is where i was at basically finished....
mrnuke
11-26-2003, 06:53 PM
don't get down guys, i still got mine and i'll definently post pics of it all. This weekend i'm gonna work on it and i'll have the pics up soon there after!
Gary Lloyd
11-27-2003, 12:42 AM
Ouch. This is where you start spending money, whichever way you go. You need to decide whether you want to get all the tools needed to fix it or to have someone do it for you. Either way, it is going to be expensive. Another idea would be to get another A/C and start over. No good choices.
Pimpsho
11-27-2003, 01:33 AM
really how much to just patch it up and fill it? over 100 u think?
mrnuke
11-28-2003, 06:36 AM
it will cost enough if you take it to a refridgerator shop. Buddy of mine had his vapo spring a leak. He fixed the piping w/ a solder and got it refilled w/ R22 for about $75-150, i can't remember
Pimpsho
11-28-2003, 10:25 AM
lol for that much ill just get another;)
Silver
11-28-2003, 08:09 PM
Just want to stay posted on the thread. Find it interesting.:)
aww damn sucks pimpsho :(
i have been awaiting this thread for long long time
because im trying to get this setup some time in teh summer.
well better luck next time.
btw nice making this thread, answered alot of questions i had :)
Pimpsho
11-28-2003, 09:53 PM
ya im currently biddin on another unit on ebay i kinda want to get a higher btu unit and im also not messing arround with this one...its gona be perfect:banana:
lallend
11-28-2003, 10:04 PM
Pimsho, how bout just using the one you have. Bend everything to where you like it and then get it fixed by a refrigeration dude.
That way everything is where you want it and it works too
If you were to get another A/C unit, you are faced with the same thing and it may spring a leak while trying to bend the pipes. If that happens, you will have bought 2 units with nothing to gain
Just something to think about is all. Good luck Pimpsho!
Pimpsho
11-28-2003, 10:14 PM
Originally posted by lallend
Pimsho, how bout just using the one you have. Bend everything to where you like it and then get it fixed by a refrigeration dude.
That way everything is where you want it and it works too
If you were to get another A/C unit, you are faced with the same thing and it may spring a leak while trying to bend the pipes. If that happens, you will have bought 2 units with nothing to gain
Just something to think about is all. Good luck Pimpsho!
very true man ive been thinking about it and its a toss up...cuz its gona cost atleast 75bux im thinkin to refill it and all. so ill prolly figure it out tomaro cuz right now im messin with my girlfriends comp;) she just got a new setup today so im already tweakin it all up for her:toast: i told her she didnt have a choice on whether or not i got to fuxor with it:D
i agree with lallend , u wouldnt have to go thru the trouble now after just bending everything into place, and now u dont have to worry about leaks ;)
few questions,
what kind of water temps do you guys expect from this system?
does teh system run 24/7 ?
are pelts needed at those temps ? ( too much power usage heh, compressor and peltier system i think )
1 more, if some time i needed to go Direct die, what systems do u recomend ( im not a fan of the prommie price ) and can i get a AC shop to put it together and gass it and stuff? ( prolly run me up to a prommie price but oh well )
Gary Lloyd
11-30-2003, 04:52 AM
A window A/C could be made into a direct die. The only difference between direct die and chiller is the type of evaporator.
Of course we would want a more restrictive cap tube and a more flexible suction line.
Gary Lloyd
11-30-2003, 04:54 AM
Pimpsho, if I were you I would put a low side access valve on it, and repair the leak. Then decide if you want to fill it yourself or have someone else do it.
Pimpsho
11-30-2003, 05:31 PM
puttin the valve on would be pretty easy i assume right? just cuttin the copper pipe somewhere(u would have to show me;)) and then braze it in.. also how would i go about fixin the leak?
Gary Lloyd
12-02-2003, 09:47 AM
Usually there is a process tube on the compressor. It is pinched off an brazed shut. This is where you would braze in an access valve. Or you can braze it into the suction line. How would you fix the leak? Braze it.
Gary Lloyd
12-02-2003, 09:49 AM
How are you doing with your system, mrnuke? Make any progress over the weekend?
mrnuke
12-02-2003, 12:46 PM
lol, not really, i had a lot of stuff to do, but i also need to know where to find some quick disconnects for 1/2" tubing so i can disconnect my chiller from the rest of the computer for when i go lan or move it. Any help on that would be great. I promase i will have it done before christmas with pictures!
Pimpsho
12-02-2003, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
Usually there is a process tube on the compressor. It is pinched off an brazed shut. This is where you would braze in an access valve. Or you can braze it into the suction line. How would you fix the leak? Braze it.
alright now to get going on this thing... should i just cut out where it was cracked and then put a lil coupler over the 2 ends and braze them? cuz would it be really weak if there is a crack then just some brazing over it? and i know what ur talking about to put the access valve cuz i see a tube where its pinched like two times and it just dead ends...so what would i do? just cut the pinched parts outa the copper then braze the valve on?
NitroRat
12-06-2003, 09:36 AM
Set your evap where you want it so you won't have to move it anymore if you have to extend both inlet and outlet nows the time. When you have it in the right spot, pick a spot on the tubing that is straight and trim and add flexible copper tubing and couplers, flux and solder, evacuate, you could let it sit overnight with a vacuum and if it stays in vacuum you should have no leaks. Then charge it up and chill away...
mrnuke
12-06-2003, 10:33 AM
i worked a bit more last night, i'll post a pic later of what all i did.
Gary Lloyd
12-07-2003, 06:42 AM
Sorry, guys. I have fallen behind here. Been having computer problems... LOL
Without a doubt I have the oldest and slowest computer around here, and it is giving me fits. I know a lot about cooling, but am a noob when it comes to computers. Trying to upgrade the modem, and it just refuses to be upgraded.
Pimpsho, you should be able to just braze over the crack. The trick is to get it just the right temperature so you can butter the material on thick. Done right, it will be stronger than the copper.
Gary Lloyd
12-07-2003, 06:49 AM
...and i know what ur talking about to put the access valve cuz i see a tube where its pinched like two times and it just dead ends...so what would i do? just cut the pinched parts outa the copper then braze the valve on?
In the pics, I see a pinched off tube at the condenser. This would be for a high side access. Is there a similar tube on the compressor? That's where we really need an access. Either on the process tube or on the suction line.
Gary Lloyd
12-14-2003, 06:23 AM
Guys, how are these projects coming?
Pimpsho, this is a little late, but here is how I would have bent the suction line in order to avoid breaking it: The suction line came out of the coil, then down, over, and up, in a wide U shape. I would have made a 90 degree horizontal bend in the bottom center of the U, making the line wrap around behind the bottom of the evaporator. I would then straighten the horizontal line alongside the top of the compressor to match.
Of course, this is just going by the pictures. The reality may not match.
Pimpsho
12-14-2003, 12:29 PM
very true! im working on a work bench so that im not doing all my stuff onthe ground...(back starts to hurt:rolleyes: ) but i was wondering how i could fill it back up... i see those lil guages uguys have that show pressure i think.... but what else would i need besides some freon to get this thing going again?
Redwolf
12-14-2003, 12:44 PM
A good tempature probe.
Originally posted by Redwolf
A good tempature probe.
What is a "good" and "acurate" temperature probe.
what would it cost. >= 100$ or less then 100$ ?
Redwolf
12-15-2003, 10:38 AM
Alot of people say to use Fluke. Personaly I like Omega. They make a great product for alot less. The HH11 $65 or HH12 $75
http://www.omega.com/ppt/pptsc.asp?ref=HH11_HH12&Nav=m02
Or like the one I've got HH509 for $120
http://www.omega.com/pptst/HH508_509.html
For the Euro guys.. Testo. You can buy them in the US too thou.
They make some nice pocket type surface thermomters.
http://www.testo.de/ZZ/en/index2.htm
mrnuke
12-19-2003, 03:57 PM
woohoo, done with finals, so time to do some work on my chiller before i go to the sugar bowl! Gary, sorry i haven't posted any new pic's been really busy with finals. I'm gonna get to work on it this weekend and i have already cut in the cooler where the return line and cap tube come out.
jamaljaco
12-21-2003, 02:50 AM
:slobber:
jamaljaco
12-21-2003, 03:01 AM
;)
jamaljaco
12-21-2003, 03:09 AM
When I got them home I opened them up. I checked the wires most of it in bad shape but workable . I pluged them in fired them up and was a bit suprised when they both worked ! Awsome!thease thing sat outside in the rain for three years.At least.
jamaljaco
12-21-2003, 03:23 AM
This is the unit I used after a night in the basement with four rattle cans . Remember it looked just like the other.I removed all the unwanted switching,wires,spare sheet metal.sanded ,removed rust scale ,sanded washed wiped and polished all the coper.
jamaljaco
12-21-2003, 03:33 AM
After the wiring, I mounted a single toggle to fire the thing up. Note the start capacitor painted copper and nestled under the tubing didnt have room for much after mounting our beloved beer cooler on the factory baseplate.
jamaljaco
12-21-2003, 04:05 AM
I forced the evaporator up against the side of the tank to form a seperate section for the returning fluid. I couldnt get mine to go in diagonal as Gary sugested.
jamaljaco
12-21-2003, 04:24 AM
This fitting is connected to the outflow of a Danner mag 5. Shoving the Danner into place was a bit dicey. It would only go in one oriention with the room allowed by my evap. Getting it deep enough to fit below the suction line and water level took forcing it down into the narrowing bottom of our beloved beer cooler. Distorting it so the lid was now ill fitting .Thats why you see the extra weather striping around the lid seal.
jamaljaco
12-21-2003, 04:36 AM
After notching for the plumbing I just filled the excess space with weather stripping. The holes for the coolant lines can be drilled
jamaljaco
12-21-2003, 04:50 AM
Here it is at its final resting place. On some sturdy plastic shelving for 15 bucks from home depot.
jamaljaco
12-21-2003, 05:15 AM
I'm currently cooling my cpu and nb. Both blocks from Danger Den. I'm using the maze3 and thier Z block on the nb. the maze3 is a bit large extending beyond the socket area making it a bit of a pig to insulate. I chose all .500" fittings and .500 ID tubing .The tubing is Tygon . Tygon has a lower brittle temp and is designed to take harsh chemicals. I'm running ethanol denatured with methanol about 30% to about 70% Prestone Dex-Cool.
jamaljaco
12-21-2003, 05:39 AM
Well there it is, -25c both chips under normal load. The coolant temp stays pretty constant Iv'e only seen it raise 2c loaded as hot as I can get it. Iv'e gained 216 mhz over my ambient temp water cooling . Thats more than the power of Gary's system. Hehe.
jamaljaco
12-21-2003, 05:41 AM
I'll have that vid card in the circuit in a couple weeks ..
Gary Lloyd
12-21-2003, 06:36 AM
WOW... Very nice work. :D
I like your way of making a compartment for the returning coolant. How did you get it to stay in position?
I see the condenser fan shroud is missing. This allows condenser air to recirculate rather than being forced to flow through the condenser. You need to build a shroud for it to get maximum flow through the condenser.
Gary Lloyd
12-21-2003, 06:51 AM
Iv'e gained 216 mhz over my ambient temp water cooling . Thats more than the power of Gary's system. Hehe.
My beloved pentium 60mhz has finally gone the way of the dinosaurs. I have pieced together a 166mhz now, cannibalizing 3 old computers in the process, and am having nothing but problems. Anybody know what a vcache is? Mine seems to be full... LOL
Originally posted by jamaljaco
I'll have that vid card in the circuit in a couple weeks ..
that rig is a thing of beauty! i like it
did you paint that compressor in that nice blueish color or was it like that from the beginning (after cleaning, of course)? awesome, so now i have to get my chiller up and running!
also... those 92db in your sig aren't for real, are they? i mean 92db .. i was freaking out with my coolermaster at 47db ;) and 92db is like 4 times as loud as that..
btw what is the throughput of that biga** fan? my chiller had a 120mm papst 4650n installed (94cfm, 46db). i replaced it with 2 deltas running at 7v (got 3 more if needed :D) and it's pretty quiet right now. also - as gary noted - close the space around the fan so the air is pushed only through the condenser.
jamaljaco
12-21-2003, 08:14 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
WOW... Very nice work. :D
I like your way of making a compartment for the returning coolant. How did you get it to stay in position? [QUOTE]
Good morning Gary. Thats pretty much just where it wanted to be . It did seperate from the side wall towards the bottom of the tank positioning the Danner pump (which went in first) took care of the that.
jamaljaco
12-21-2003, 08:33 AM
Hello Sky , welcome to the madness. After cleaning with navel jelly and various grits of sandpaper it all had to be painted . The only part I didnt paint was the copper tubing and the evap .Not sure of the actual db rating it was more of a joke.Its as loud as a window a/c .Not sure of the cfm either , thats original equipment.
Pimpsho
12-21-2003, 02:47 PM
man ur really makin me jealous!!! damnit i wish i didnt break my chiller!!! well i am gona fix that thing asap!
jamaljaco
12-21-2003, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
. Anybody know what a vcache is? Mine seems to be full... LOL sORry Gary I've forgotten most my paleontology.
jamaljaco
12-21-2003, 03:16 PM
Wow! Thanks for the heads up on that fan shroud . Must have knocked at least 10db off the noise factor , hehe..
GeekGoddess
12-21-2003, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
My beloved pentium 60mhz has finally gone the way of the dinosaurs. I have pieced together a 166mhz now, cannibalizing 3 old computers in the process, and am having nothing but problems. Anybody know what a vcache is? Mine seems to be full... LOL
Ok, as a historian here,,,think I can help you w/ your vcache prob Gary, LOL. The Virtual Cache (VCache) is a disk cache that stores data from the HDD in the faster RAM so that if a program needs that certain piece of data, it can just access it in the vcache instead of accessing the HDD, which would take longer. The VCache can also copy more data than what the program asks for in anticipation that the next data segment would be needed next. This helps your HDD's performance. It kinda works in conjunction w/ your swapfile (virtual memory). You can optimize your VCache in your Registry, Like so:
Open your System.INI file, scroll down until you see the line [vcache]. Usually, there will be nothing under this line. To adjust the vcache settings, you'll need to add the following lines below the line [vcache] :-
MinFileCache=xxxx
MaxFileCache=yyyy
ChunkSize=zzzz
where xxxx is the minimum size of the vcache in kilobytes (KB)
yyyy is the maximum size of the vcache in kilobytes (KB)
zzzz is the granularity of the vcache in bytes
Most agree that the optimal Max value would be 1/4 of the system RAM. Save any changes that you've made to the system.ini file, close Notepad and reboot the system. The changes will only take effect after you reboot the system.
This should help solve your problem. You can find a lot more information on this and other registry/disk optimizations at this site, its old stuff, written for win 98/2000 and also for older intels, but I found it VERY informative.....It might help you with your Dinosaurs! :) For the VCache info, goto the Disk Cache Optimization link. Hope it helps! :D
http://www.adriansrojakpot.com/Speed_Demonz.htm
Originally posted by jamaljaco
Hello Sky , welcome to the madness. After cleaning with navel jelly and various grits of sandpaper it all had to be painted . The only part I didnt paint was the copper tubing and the evap .Not sure of the actual db rating it was more of a joke.Its as loud as a window a/c .Not sure of the cfm either , thats original equipment.
thanks
i went about my rig mostly like you described, sanding the tubing and all those bits that now shine as new. just gave those a transparent coating to keep it like that.
so now i'm working to cut the noise down to as low as possible. atm the psu of one of my ancient 386-rigs supplies the power for the fans on the condenser and that psu is noisy as hell. while it isn't real loud, it's enough to blend out the delta fans @5/7v and the compressor's working noises are barely audible :)
jamaljaco
12-22-2003, 05:51 PM
No Fair Sky! We wants pics.!.
jamaljaco
12-22-2003, 06:00 PM
Yea , I used 2000 grit on my copper just to polish it . What clear coating did you use? Thought about clear coating mine but didnt know what would hold up to the hot and cold extremes.I really want to see your low noise fan solution .
jamaljaco
12-22-2003, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by Pimpsho
man ur really makin me jealous!!! damnit i wish i didnt break my chiller!!! well i am gona fix that thing asap! Pimpsho, I see your name on the boards , you better be working on that chiller! hehe.
mrnuke
12-22-2003, 11:00 PM
hey jamal, what did you do to condensate proof ur wb's and did you use dielectric grease for the pin holes?
jamaljaco
12-23-2003, 12:49 AM
Originally posted by mrnuke
hey jamal, what did you do to condensate proof ur wb's and did you use dielectric grease for the pin holes? Yea< lotsa dielectric grease in the socket, around the socket, ect. neoprene in the center of the socket after the grease,basicaly put it everywhere I thought moisture might occur. I coated the back of the mobo with liquid electrical tape as it can peel away clean if you need to remove it. for the closed cell foam I just bought an assortment of weather striping and expermented to get the right thickness for my temps . I recomend hooking up the coolant lines and waterblock(s) and pumping the chilled fluid through them for a few days while experimenting with insulation and different coolant mixtures before mounting it to our expensive hardware.I got all my good ideas from these forums , hehe
GeekGoddess
12-23-2003, 10:14 AM
JAMAL,
Your Chiller unit is truly a Thing of Beauty! Im very impressed! You must have put a lot of long hours into that project. I must commend you on that not only does it look very effective in chilling your water, but its also very attractive. Very nice setup! :D :toast: :cool: You must either be single, or have a very understanding woman in your life. ;) :D
jamaljaco
12-23-2003, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by GeekGoddess
JAMAL,
Your Chiller unit is truly a Thing of Beauty! Im very impressed! You must have put a lot of long hours into that project. I must commend you on that not only does it look very effective in chilling your water, but its also very attractive. Very nice setup! :D :toast: :cool: You must either be single, or have a very understanding woman in your life. ;) :D sSHhEeesHh !!>..
so i guess it's time for my to-be-chiller to show up :)
some words upfront. this used to be a beverage cooler, so it isn't anywhere as powerful as an a/c unit - but we'll see what temps it is actually capable of reaching.
atm it's being dissected - all the surplus parts will be removed and the rest will then be spit-shined, as some of the other parts already are.
http://www.abi02.de/deepblue2k2/pixx/cmp_setup02-9134.jpg
this is the whole unit. the biggie black bit in the background are 2 mora ga radiators that were put together for a quick loop to just test them for possible leaks. and they did a good job of showing the condensing water. the water temp in the rez was ~-5°C with the room temp at the time of the test being ~10-13°C -> HEAVY! condensation!
the pic shows 3 of the 4 fans, plus the original metal papst fan. 2 fans are right behind the condenser running at 5v. atop those 2 fans are 2 pieces of plexi that just serve as a shroud for the fans.
the 2 fans around the compressor are mostly off or running at 5v - this is just a precautional setup for high outside temps.
http://www.abi02.de/deepblue2k2/pixx/dt_compr01-9140.jpg
this here is the small compressor that's delivering the cooling goodness, a danfoss fr7.5g charged with r134a. the leftmost bit is the drier, sanded with 400-1000' sandpaper and later on coated with a layer of clear lacquer. so far the lacquer does a goob job - no blistering at all.
the compressor itself still needs a bit of cleaning - that greyish goop is really hard to remove - even paint thinner didn't get it off. hmmmm i guess i'll have to paint it blue :D
GeekGoddess
12-23-2003, 04:04 PM
SKY, very nice! Looks awesome, Keep up the good work. :D :toast:
http://www.abi02.de/deepblue2k2/pixx/dtl_wtrrez02-9138.jpg
and here comes the actual rez with the evap (that silver piping).
at the time of the picture the whole setup was turned of for some time - so there's no ice on the evap. temps measured on the evap in the top left corner (about where that whiteish tube crosses the pic) gave me around -10°C - not that much, but it's at the end of the evap. the coldest part is deep down at the bottom of the rez. and besides my temp-measuring was pretty cumbersome - a kty110 thermistor hooked to a cheapo multimeter - reading resistances of the display ;). same for the compressor - without the bottom 2 fans running it was at 45°-50°C.
while there's still only pure water in the rez, i guess the temps are ok. so far the actual water temp was around -6°C. next week i'm going for some g48 glysantin from basf - that should get the temps a good deal down (at least i hope so).
that's it for now. whenever my waterblocks show up, i'll post a follow up on this.
hm while i'm at it. does anyone know of a good (=accurate) tempsensor / lcd setup? i wanted to go for the digidoc 5 deal, but it's said to be only 0°C-100°C - not exactly what i need. as i'm going to build a custom cube for this whole chiller, i want it to include some lcds showing the temps and an option to adjust the fans from outside the case... hm maybe even selfadjusting...
thanks geekgoddess!
the pump inside the rez is a maxijet/powerhead 1200 - doing pretty good so far - just needs a little bit of neoprene underneath to stop its vibrations from passing through the entire setup.
the 2 mora radiators i talked about earlier are part of a "backup" plan. one is supposed to keep my main rig cool (palo1800+) while the second is the actual backup for my gaming/benching rig (tbb1700+ @2.4g) - because i ain't going to drag that chiller around to a lan at a friends place. that chiller weighs around 25-30kg, add another 14 liters of coolant in the rez...
http://www.abi02.de/deepblue2k2/pixx/dtl_compr02-9135.jpg
ah well.. final pic of the drier close up with the focus on some piping in the back that still needs some cleaning since its behind the compressor and below the condensor - thus inaccessible atm.
GeekGoddess
12-23-2003, 04:33 PM
Looks even better seeing the newer pix,,,hehe,,nice and shiny! :)
Pimpsho
12-23-2003, 04:53 PM
ya im working on mine right now!!! and hey jamalco thats some sweet ass work u did there!!!! props man i never thought of paintin the compressor
Gary Lloyd
12-23-2003, 06:33 PM
Jamal, are you ready for the next step?
Well there it is, -25c both chips under normal load. The coolant temp stays pretty constant Iv'e only seen it raise 2c loaded as hot as I can get it. Iv'e gained 216 mhz over my ambient temp water cooling .
We can do better. Since this system is charged for a much heavier load (A/C), it now has too much refrigerant in it. Your next step is to get a piercing valve and a set of guages. Install the piercing valve on the process tube. That's the stubbed off tube on the compressor.
Run the system until the coolant is at its lowest temperature (under load). Put your low side guage on the piercing valve. Then remove a little refrigerant, wait 10-15 minutes and see if the coolant temperature drops. Keep doing that until the coolant temperature stops dropping. This is the optimum refrigerant charge for the load. If the coolant temperature rises, you have gone a step too far.
Keep in mind that if the low side is in a vacuum, you must shut it down in order to remove refrigerant. You don't want to suck air into the system.
Gary Lloyd
12-23-2003, 06:42 PM
Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
WOW... Very nice work.
I like your way of making a compartment for the returning coolant. How did you get it to stay in position?
Good morning Gary. Thats pretty much just where it wanted to be . It did seperate from the side wall towards the bottom of the tank positioning the Danner pump (which went in first) took care of the that.
I wonder if a hot glue gun could be used to hold it in place?
Gary Lloyd
12-23-2003, 07:04 PM
Sky, your reservoir is HUGE. The smaller, the better. It must take forever to chill all of that coolant.
mrnuke
12-23-2003, 11:14 PM
squeezed this in tonight, waitin on quick disconnects and tubing, tubing should be here soon. Gary, if you need more pics, i would like someone to help me on how to make the cooler secure instead of just hanging off. I think i might need to shave the shaft back a bit, cut some other stuff and move the control unit......
mrnuke
12-23-2003, 11:17 PM
also, what should i use to cover up the cap tubing, I would hate to have a puddle every time i run my chiller.
mrnuke
12-23-2003, 11:27 PM
Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
Run the system until the coolant is at its lowest temperature (under load). Put your low side guage on the piercing valve. Then remove a little refrigerant, wait 10-15 minutes and see if the coolant temperature drops. Keep doing that until the coolant temperature stops dropping. This is the optimum refrigerant charge for the load. If the coolant temperature rises, you have gone a step too far.
How much would a set of gagues (for what refridgerent R22, R12, R502 set?) and a piercing valve cost?
jamaljaco
12-24-2003, 12:15 AM
Originally posted by Pimpsho
ya im working on mine right now!!! and hey jamalco thats some sweet ass work u did there!!!! props man i never thought of paintin the compressor hey guys, I had to paint my A/C it was all rusted out . It was the next natural step after sanding , hehe ,. As a professional painter in the rustproofing buisness. ( I line and coat pipeline) This was nothing , lol.Also as an artist I like things to look good.
jamaljaco
12-24-2003, 12:25 AM
Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
Jamal, are you ready for the next step?
We can do better. Since this system is charged for a much heavier load (A/C), it now has too much refrigerant in it. Your next step is to get a piercing valve and a set of guages. Install the piercing valve on the process tube. That's the stubbed off tube on the compressor.
Run the system until the coolant is at its lowest temperature (under load). Put your low side guage on the piercing valve. Then remove a little refrigerant, wait 10-15 minutes and see if the coolant temperature drops. Keep doing that until the coolant temperature stops dropping. This is the optimum refrigerant charge for the load. If the coolant temperature rises, you have gone a step too far.
Keep in mind that if the low side is in a vacuum, you must shut it down in order to remove refrigerant. You don't want to suck air into the system. No Gary not ready yet, I still need to aquire the piercing valve and the guages this may take a couples weeks allowing for the holidays.And say I let to much out , I would like to have the good stuff to put back in. I really can't wait to start learning to tune.
jamaljaco
12-24-2003, 12:56 AM
Originally posted by Gary Loyd.
I wonder if a hot glue gun could be used to hold it in place? I havn't had a lot of experience with hot glue but I have my doubts about glueing metal and plastic together. Then bathing it in solvents like ethanol/ methanol.
ns_ripper
12-24-2003, 01:16 AM
Originally posted by sky
that rig is a thing of beauty! i like it
did you paint that compressor in that nice blueish color or was it like that from the beginning (after cleaning, of course)? awesome, so now i have to get my chiller up and running!
also... those 92db in your sig aren't for real, are they? i mean 92db .. i was freaking out with my coolermaster at 47db ;) and 92db is like 4 times as loud as that..
btw what is the throughput of that biga** fan? my chiller had a 120mm papst 4650n installed (94cfm, 46db). i replaced it with 2 deltas running at 7v (got 3 more if needed :D) and it's pretty quiet right now. also - as gary noted - close the space around the fan so the air is pushed only through the condenser.
wrong; Every increase of 3db doubles the sound pressure :)
56db would be 4 times as loud as 47db
jamaljaco
12-24-2003, 01:27 AM
Originally posted by mrnuke
squeezed this in tonight, waitin on quick disconnects and tubing, tubing should be here soon. Gary, if you need more pics, i would like someone to help me on how to make the cooler secure instead of just hanging off. I think i might need to shave the shaft back a bit, cut some other stuff and move the control unit...... It looks like you have a smaller unit than I did . I got mine to fit on the base plate (don't know what else to call it) enough to stay there. I cut the edges that stick up and laid them flat so that the cooler sat flush .Yea , cut the shaft back as far as you can. I even moved the entire fan assembly forward omiting the shroud and later reconstructed it out of plastic as per Gary and Sky's advice. Also I completly rewired the unit . Removing the fan speed control,thermistat and power switch and replacing it all with a single toggle. Just on /off , full power.
jamaljaco
12-24-2003, 02:06 AM
Originally posted by ns_ripper
wrong; Every increase of 3db doubles the sound pressure :)
56db would be 4 times as loud as 47db not that it matters the 92db in my sig was hyperbole. Didnt feel it worth mentiong here in a thread about water chillers, nice catch though.
jamaljaco
12-24-2003, 02:11 AM
Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
Sky, your reservoir is HUGE. The smaller, the better. It must take forever to chill all of that coolant. yea Sky , you might want to think about how to get that evap out of that bathtub. There's got to be a way to bend it into a smaller container.
Originally posted by ns_ripper
wrong; Every increase of 3db doubles the sound pressure :)
56db would be 4 times as loud as 47db
what i learned was below 20db every increase by 5db doubles, above 20db it takes a 10db increase to double.
ah wait.. i just saw .. we're not talking about the same thing. with sound pressure you're perfectly right, but i wasn't talking about sound pressure, but the actual volume (or whatever that is called). thehuman ear realizes (right word?) a 1000 Hz humm as being twice as loud, when the difference between two humms is ~10db - that's what i was getting at. but sound pressure and what i was talking about isn't the same. the latter is the subjective feel or something like that ;)
Gary Lloyd
12-24-2003, 08:29 AM
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=305113
Looking good, mrnuke. :)
That's exactly what I had in mind when I suggested placing the evaporator diagonally in the cooler.
The cap tube can be soft soldered to the suction line, then insulate them both. The exchange of heat between them makes the evaporator more efficient. If you cannot soft solder them, an acceptable alternative would be to wrap them tightly together with electrical tape.
BTW, you may want to downsize these pics a bit. :D
mrnuke
12-24-2003, 09:35 AM
Gary, just makin sure u can see everything, i know my dad is having a hard time helping me w/ solders and he's only 53! And thank you so much for your advice, this thing would be a POS if you hadn't guided all of us!
Gary Lloyd
12-24-2003, 10:10 AM
You are very welcome. :D
On mounting the cooler: Let's imagine that we could build an insulated partition, all the way across, between the cooler and the rest of the system. Let's imagine that our partition is sized so that we can put the original window A/C cover back on, separating it all into two compartments as it was originally.
The cooler could be strapped to the partition, perhaps with a spacer in between to make it easier to open the cooler lid. and if we wanted we could put the whole thing in the window (at least in the summer), keeping the noise and heat outdoors.
mrnuke
12-24-2003, 10:18 AM
then would i have to cut out the control unit and part of the shroud, then put the top unit back on? The cooler sits a good 5-6" off the side, i think i need to shave that shaft on the motor back as far as i can, and then cut part of the shroud that was intended to suck air in over the evap. I'd take it completely out, but then i'd have to build a new motor mount for the condenser fan. ( i wanna just have a switch for the fan, anyone know how to do that pm me) I would love to get it completely put back together kind of, but the cap tube would also be a little big for it
jamaljaco & gary
yea i will reduce the rez. it might develop into a piece of plastic roughly the shape of the evap and probably as close to the actual evap as i can manage. the only thing bothering me with this idea is the size of the pump. either i fit the pump inside that new plastic bowl with only the pump inlet passing through the plastic or i'll have to make that plastic part small enough to fit the pump inbetween evap and plastic.
hm. on another thought, what would be the optimal setup for a radiator type evap like those from the a/c units? i'd think it would be best to have the rez barely big enough for the evap to fit in. so with mrnuke's setup, i'd put something in the empty corners of the rez, to further limit the amount of coolant - and maybe fit the pump into that "something" just so the inlet reaches the coolant and the outlet can be reached.
mrnuke
12-24-2003, 10:45 AM
lol, i work out a lot, and it was a PAIN to get that pump as far down as it would go, i thought i was gonna break the cooler......
Gary Lloyd
12-24-2003, 11:09 AM
Keep in mind that I can't see it from here, so you will be the better judge of what can or cannot be done. :D
Here's another thought: If you look at the original cover, you can see which part is intended to be outdoors and which part is intended to be indoors. The indoor part of the cover could be cut off. Then you could make a partition that goes beyond the width of the unit, mounting the cooler and the controls to that.
Why do you want a switch for the fan?
water_cooler 20
12-24-2003, 11:10 AM
i'm redoing my water chiller which would hit -20C and i'm now aiming for -40c i'm redoing the evap and wanted to know if i should use a spiral evap or one with 180 turns on it
the res is a iglo playmate if that helps
also i'm getting a digi-cam for Christmas so then i can post some pics of it
Gary Lloyd
12-24-2003, 11:30 AM
i'm redoing my water chiller which would hit -20C and i'm now aiming for -40c i'm redoing the evap and wanted to know if i should use a spiral evap or one with 180 turns on it
the res is a iglo playmate if that helps
also i'm getting a digi-cam for Christmas so then i can post some pics of it
As I recall, your chiller has two major problems:
1. The cap tube is WAY too restrictive.
2. The reservoir is WAY too big.
And then there is a laundry list of lesser problems.
water_cooler 20
12-24-2003, 11:33 AM
also there i was klink on the suction line
and the new res i have holds 2 gallons instead of the old on which had 5 gallons
also the evap will be smaller so the cap tube might work better and if it doesn't i will change it to .028 right now its 6ft of .026
i'm also going to try to get R22 to work in this sys
mrnuke
12-24-2003, 11:41 AM
I want a switch for the fan so i can turn it on when i put the compressor on high cool. I think thats why i got it so cheap is that the fan doesn't go on the higest setting. If i could make a switch for it, i could set the compressor to high cool and have the fan blowing across the condenser and hopefully get better results. I'm currently lookin for a piercing valve and a set of gagues. How low do you think she can go?
Gary Lloyd
12-24-2003, 11:43 AM
also there i was klink on the suction line
and the new res i have holds 2 gallons instead of the old on which had 5 gallons
also the evap will be smaller so the cap tube might work better and if it doesn't i will change it to .028 right now its 6ft of .026
i'm also going to try to get R22 to work in this sys
The size of the evaporator has nothing to do with it. It's about the load and the refrigerant. The .028 cap tube isn't big enough either. Using R12, you need about 10 feet of .042 cap tube.
Using R22, you will need about 8 feet of .036 cap tube.
water_cooler 20
12-24-2003, 11:52 AM
so if i stay with i have now i will not beable to get past -20C
Gary Lloyd
12-24-2003, 12:30 PM
so if i stay with i have now i will not beable to get past -20C
Frankly, I am surprised that it gets that cold, but I am not surprised that it takes forever to get there.
This is not like a direct die cap tube. A chiller has a much heavier heat load, therefore it needs a lot more refrigerant flow, hence a less restrictive cap tube. And R12 has less high side pressure to push the refrigerant through, so it needs to be even less restrictive in order to get sufficient flow.
water_cooler 20
12-24-2003, 03:12 PM
this is alittle off topic but would a 1/4 hp compressor make a good compressor for a water chiller
and do car AC condensors work well on water chiller
Gary Lloyd
12-24-2003, 06:49 PM
Yes, and so would a 1/8 HP compressor, or a 100 HP compressor. And a car A/C condenser is large enough for about ten of these.
water_cooler 20
12-24-2003, 07:11 PM
sorry i meant would a car evap work as a good condensor for my water chiller
jamaljaco
12-24-2003, 10:07 PM
Originally posted by mrnuke
then would i have to cut out the control unit and part of the shroud, then put the top unit back on? The cooler sits a good 5-6" off the side, i think i need to shave that shaft on the motor back as far as i can, and then cut part of the shroud that was intended to suck air in over the evap. I'd take it completely out, but then i'd have to build a new motor mount for the condenser fan. ( i wanna just have a switch for the fan, anyone know how to do that pm me) I would love to get it completely put back together kind of, but the cap tube would also be a little big for it Ok, lets all remember to keep these projects as simple as posible to achieve the desired results. I did most of the obove quoted stuff because I was comfortable with that work. the simplest way to solve your cooler mounting problem would be to mount the whole unit (beer cooler included ) on a sheet of plywood.As for the electrical you would want the fan and compressor on one switch I think. If your not comfortable with that leave it the way it is and just figure out how to remount the switching.
jamaljaco
12-25-2003, 02:39 AM
Originally posted by sky
jamaljaco & gary
yea i will reduce the rez. it might develop into a piece of plastic roughly the shape of the evap and probably as close to the actual evap as i can manage. the only thing bothering me with this idea is the size of the pump. either i fit the pump inside that new plastic bowl with only the pump inlet passing through the plastic or i'll have to make that plastic part small enough to fit the pump inbetween evap and plastic.
hm. on another thought, what would be the optimal setup for a radiator type evap like those from the a/c units? i'd think it would be best to have the rez barely big enough for the evap to fit in. so with mrnuke's setup, i'd put something in the empty corners of the rez, to further limit the amount of coolant - and maybe fit the pump into that "something" just so the inlet reaches the coolant and the outlet can be reached. ok Sky,are you talking about making an insert or using an object to put into the existing resevoir to displace the coolant? if so great idea.As for your pump I wouldn't pump through or breech that object thus risking leakage. And for the pump can you run that inline? Mounting it outside the resevoir.Running a pickup tube to the bottom of the coolant? Forgive me if I'm a little slow this morning.;) :p:
water_cooler 20
12-25-2003, 03:02 AM
Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
The size of the evaporator has nothing to do with it. It's about the load and the refrigerant. The .028 cap tube isn't big enough either. Using R12, you need about 10 feet of .042 cap tube.
Using R22, you will need about 8 feet of .036 cap tube.
when using R22 would 5ft of .031 work
Gary Lloyd
12-25-2003, 04:48 AM
when using R22 would 5ft of .031 work
Yes, that should get you pretty close.
water_cooler 20
12-25-2003, 04:50 AM
also would a Danfoss TL2.5F R134a compressor work well in a water chiller and could it be filled with R22
here is its PDF
http://www.danfoss.com/Compressors/pdf/datasheets/r134a_115v_60hz/t-series/TL25F_R134a_115V_60Hz_06-03_Cd42b622.pdf
water_cooler 20
12-25-2003, 04:56 AM
opps sorry i posted the wrong compressor its the danfoss TT2.5F
here is the PDF
http://www.danfoss.com/Compressors/pdf/datasheets/r134a_115v_60hz/t-series/TT25F_R134a_115V_60Hz_07-03_Cd42q622.pdf
Gary Lloyd
12-25-2003, 05:10 AM
With a compressor that small, I wouldn't expect to get much below 0C, even with R22.
water_cooler 20
12-25-2003, 05:14 AM
i could get a Tecumseh RKA54 9100btu Compressor instead
would that be loud tho
if i put it in a box and inslute the box will the sound be alot lower
Originally posted by jamaljaco
ok Sky,are you talking about making an insert or using an object to put into the existing resevoir to displace the coolant? if so great idea.As for your pump I wouldn't pump through or breech that object thus risking leakage. And for the pump can you run that inline? Mounting it outside the resevoir.Running a pickup tube to the bottom of the coolant? Forgive me if I'm a little slow this morning.;) :p:
i'm going for an insert, so i can dump my pump in there. then i'll cut a hole into it to put the inlet nozzle through there and finally seal it off.
btw the pump doesn't need to be submerged, so it's either way. but i'm probably going to fill the insert with water anyway.
ok here's a pic of what i think it might look like
http://www.abi02.de/deepblue2k2/pixx/_remake.jpg
the red part is the insert, the blue parts are pump and tubing. the pump will actually not have any tubing attached to its inlet, as the throughput almost halved when i had it running with a piece of tube there. the inlet nozzle is a pretty strong piece of plastic that protrudes a bit, so it's ideal for sealing.
hm all of this could even be used to dampen the vibration of the pump some more. - as it is right now, the vibration of the pump travels through all of the reservoir and that's not a pretty sound. so i'll probably put that insert (figure something like an icecream can for now) on some rubber feet and drop it in the rez. then the pump will be placed on another set of rubber feet which should quiten it down to inaudible. the seal used for the inlet-nozzle will have rubberish to do the same :).
water_cooler 20
12-25-2003, 08:22 AM
i got my digi-cam today here is a pic of my sys and res
Res
water_cooler 20
12-25-2003, 08:33 AM
sys
water_cooler 20
12-25-2003, 08:36 AM
and then my rig
water_cooler 20
12-25-2003, 08:43 AM
and the tools
water_cooler 20
12-25-2003, 12:06 PM
I just finshed brazing it here are some more pics
sys
water_cooler 20
12-25-2003, 04:20 PM
res
water_cooler 20
12-25-2003, 04:21 PM
ghetto brazing
1st time i used my new mapp/oxy torch and wow it makes the job so easy compared to a mapp gas touch
brazed 2 3/8 tubes together without union:toast:
water_cooler 20
12-25-2003, 04:29 PM
should i surmage my pump or run it inline with the res
water_cooler 20
12-26-2003, 09:50 AM
fixed my subcooling problem
tape can go along way
jamaljaco
12-26-2003, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by sky
i'm going for an insert, so i can dump my pump in there. then i'll cut a hole into it to put the inlet nozzle through there and finally seal it off.
btw the pump doesn't need to be submerged, so it's either way. but i'm probably going to fill the insert with water anyway.
ok here's a pic of what i think it might look like
http://www.abi02.de/deepblue2k2/pixx/_remake.jpg
the red part is the insert, the blue parts are pump and tubing. the pump will actually not have any tubing attached to its inlet, as the throughput almost halved when i had it running with a piece of tube there. the inlet nozzle is a pretty strong piece of plastic that protrudes a bit, so it's ideal for sealing.
hm all of this could even be used to dampen the vibration of the pump some more. - as it is right now, the vibration of the pump travels through all of the reservoir and that's not a pretty sound. so i'll probably put that insert (figure something like an icecream can for now) on some rubber feet and drop it in the rez. then the pump will be placed on another set of rubber feet which should quiten it down to inaudible. the seal used for the inlet-nozzle will have rubberish to do the same :). I wouldn't fill the insert with water. That would be the same as if you had no insert at all. putting an extra load on the system. I would insulate the extra space.
yep, i guess i got carried away. of course the insert would have to be insulated if i were to fill it with water - which seems to be a stupid idea now that i think of it ;)
monday will be the day of the first test run with g48 instead of plain water. it will show where the temps are headed - atm i can get around -6°C with no load and tap water. depending on its success i have to start thinking of a cover for the rez, since g48 or paint thinner don't really smell all that good ;). atm i'm thinking of clear plexi with some sealstring or silicone around the edges and where the tubes pass through the top.
jamaljaco
12-28-2003, 10:05 AM
Originally posted by sky
yep, i guess i got carried away. of course the insert would have to be insulated if i were to fill it with water - which seems to be a stupid idea now that i think of it ;)
monday will be the day of the first test run with g48 instead of plain water. it will show where the temps are headed - atm i can get around -6°C with no load and tap water. depending on its success i have to start thinking of a cover for the rez, since g48 or paint thinner don't really smell all that good ;). atm i'm thinking of clear plexi with some sealstring or silicone around the edges and where the tubes pass through the top. right on ,looking forward to the results.:D
Gary Lloyd
12-28-2003, 10:25 AM
You can't get much below 0C with tap water. Once it starts making ice, the temperature can no longer drop. Instead of being a chiller, it becomes an icemaker, with all of the system capacity being used for that purpose.
I would suggest using windshield washer solvent for the coolant. This is a mixture of methanol and water. If it starts to slush up, you can strengthen the mixture with gas line anti-freeze, which is pure methanol.
jamaljaco
12-28-2003, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by vlad
Use 100% denatured alcohol. you can get it at any hardware store, Ace/ trunvalue/ homedepot, look in paint dept in solvents. Sky , I use this its ethanol denatured with methanol and I mix it with antifreeze ( ethylene glycol) which also contains corrosion inhibitors. I've changed my ratio from what I had in my earlier posts from 70% antifreeze to 30% alcohol to a mixture of 50/50 it gets about 5 degrees cooler and pumps way better. I tried the windshield washer mixture as Gary mentioned but it slushed up and would hardly pump at my temps -25 to -30c . however you may not have this problem with your higher temps.Oh , and whatever you do for a cover make your tank so you can get in and out of it a lot , If your like me you wont be able to resist the temptation to look in there a often :D
Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
You can't get much below 0C with tap water. Once it starts making ice, the temperature can no longer drop. Instead of being a chiller, it becomes an icemaker, with all of the system capacity being used for that purpose.
I would suggest using windshield washer solvent for the coolant. This is a mixture of methanol and water. If it starts to slush up, you can strengthen the mixture with gas line anti-freeze, which is pure methanol.
yep i noticed that. was funny to see actual tap water reach -6°C for a short time - later on temps got back to around 0°C. i thought it was impossible for water to get below 0°C (physics and all) but then again, who knows what chemicals are in your average tapwater anyway. and i'm not going for windshield washer stuff, since that tends to foam - heard that from a lot of people and have seen it first hand on my windscreen ;).
i'm going to use g48, which is a coolant used in engine cooling circuits. a 1:1 mixture of destilled water at that should reach -40°C, straight g48 will go down to -70°C - not that i need for those temps. and besides it also includes some chemicals that stop corrosion inside the coolers - especially in circuits combining cu and al.
anyway, thanks for the tip!
Originally posted by jamaljaco
Sky , I use this its ethanol denatured with methanol and I mix it with antifreeze ( ethylene glycol) which also contains corrosion inhibitors. I've changed my ratio from what I had in my earlier posts from 70% antifreeze to 30% alcohol to a mixture of 50/50 it gets about 5 degrees cooler and pumps way better. I tried the windshield washer mixture as Gary mentioned but it slushed up and would hardly pump at my temps -25 to -30c . however you may not have this problem with your higher temps.Oh , and whatever you do for a cover make your tank so you can get in and out of it a lot , If your like me you wont be able to resist the temptation to look in there a often :D
i went through a good deal of diy-stores today and all i have to say is BAD IDEA. only nutcases around, i was starting to have temper-problems ;). besides that. they didn't have any of the stuff i needed. sp i'm gonna try windshield solvent now for a quick test. maybe i'll try again later this afternoon, but all those stores were crowed with people as if tomorrow the stores would cease to exist (argh).
anyway what kind of tubing do you use? so far i have some cheapo pvc-tubing, which is a major pain since it's just too easy to bend and also contains some materials that given enough time will be washed out of the tubing and will then jam my coolers. i tried getting pur/pun type tubing but to no avail. also neoprene for isolating my mobo / gfx-card wasn't around - so i guess this day was pretty useless so far.
ah and the cover of my machine will be made from clear acryl-glas that i got some time ago. and i love the idea. i know i will be looking at it alot :D
mrnuke
12-29-2003, 09:58 AM
Du mu¦Â winter grad anti-freeze, es soll sehr gut arbeiten f¨¹r dich und es ist gut zu fast -25c. Ich liebe Deutsch!
Slickthellama
12-29-2003, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by mrnuke
Du mu¦Â winter grad anti-freeze, es soll sehr gut arbeiten f¨¹r dich und es ist gut zu fast -25c. Ich liebe Deutsch!
:stick: <- me
jamaljaco
12-29-2003, 11:44 PM
Yea ,Sky, I'm using this, Tygon (formula R-3603) It has a temp range of -49 to 158F. It resist most all inorganic chemicals. It also resist cracking , aging and colapse . the stuff in the pic is .500 ID X .750 OD with a wall size of .125 . Its largly sold as medical equipment and is a bit expensive at $3.00 per foot U.S. You might get lucky and find a distributor near you ;) I order mine from the Danger Den just down the road a bit from where I live. hehe .:D
Originally posted by mrnuke
Du mu¦Â winter grad anti-freeze, es soll sehr gut arbeiten f¨¹r dich und es ist gut zu fast -25c. Ich liebe Deutsch!
:D
funny.. every club i've been to in the states the guy at the door would pull out some german sentences on seeing my id ... is it common to learn german in school or do you have relatives over here?
@jamal
i hope you don't mind me shortening your nick ;).
i've been looking into tygon r3603 last week and they sell it only in 15 meter rolls for about 86 euros. that's way more than i need - and on browsing the pages of ismatec sa (tygon factory guys) i found something that bothers me. in the specs they say r3603 incorporates softeners (don't know if that's the correct term) and is basically yet another pvc-mixture. and it is said that r3603 isn't recommended for use with solvents - solvents here referring to stuff as in paint, etc.
that's why i started to worry about you running paint thinner or similar stuff through it.
it should be ok for alcohols or similar stuff, but i spent some more time at their site and browsed for other materials and found tygon mh 2075. that doesn't incorporate softeners and is resistant to solvents of any type. the temp-range is given as -70°C to +52°C (not exactly my range...). so now i'm trying to find a reseller that lists this. so far i only found about 4 shops in all of germany (!) that offer r3603 - and those are mostly medical equipment suppliers, just as you said.
anyway. my windshield solvent test wasn't as successful as i hoped. temps went to about -10°C since that stuff started slushing. i had the chiller run for some time and had to do other stuff, when i returned i had a fat piece of ice in my rez - doh. so that mixture was crap and it stinks pretty bad. i didn't have enough of it (and if i had i would have been woozy all day) and had to add water - too much it would seem ;)
so next up is the test with real car-coolant - that should give me an idea of what temps can be reached.
@gary
is it better for the compressor to have the fans (2x 120 mm deltas with ~95cfm each) pushing air through the condenser, or having them run at low speeds with less than half the volume pushed through the condenser?
btw happy new year from 2004 already :D
Gary Lloyd
12-31-2003, 07:42 PM
With the system under heavy load (during pull down), the difference between the air temperature entering the condenser and the air temperature leaving the condenser should be no more than 14C. If the difference (called delta-T or dT) is more than 14C dT, then it needs more airflow. I like to see the condenser dT less than 10C.
Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
With the system under heavy load (during pull down), the difference between the air temperature entering the condenser and the air temperature leaving the condenser should be no more than 14C. If the difference (called delta-T or dT) is more than 14C dT, then it needs more airflow. I like to see the condenser dT less than 10C.
i guess i'll have to test that soon but i'm pretty confident that i can get to within 10°C dT, maybe less. i messed up with the fans in my last post. each fan actually has 106cfm throughput. the condenser came with a single fan worth 95cfm throughput, so if i run those 2 replacements at full speed they have more than doubled the original throughput - and the exhaust air is barely warmer than ambient. i'll post the actual temps some time soon, maybe later today.
jamaljaco
12-31-2003, 09:46 PM
Originally posted by Gary Lloyd
With the system under heavy load (during pull down), the difference between the air temperature entering the condenser and the air temperature leaving the condenser should be no more than 14C. If the difference (called delta-T or dT) is more than 14C dT, then it needs more airflow. I like to see the condenser dT less than 10C. thanks Gary very useful info, I have something to measure, may have to redesign my shroud, hehe.
jamaljaco
12-31-2003, 09:53 PM
Originally posted by jamaljaco
thanks Gary very useful info, I have something to measure, may have to redesign my shroud, hehe. just checked I'm right at 10-c assuming the air going in is ambient.
GeekGoddess
12-31-2003, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by sky
...i'm trying to find a reseller that lists this. so far i only found about 4 shops in all of germany (!) that offer r3603 - and those are mostly medical equipment suppliers, just as you said.
btw happy new year from 2004 already :D
Sky, found some distributers of DANGER DEN stuff in Europe.
At least one of them sells the Tygon R3603 that your looking for..heres a link or two.....good luck! :)
Denmark:
http://www.coolerkit.dk/group.asp?group=31
Germany:
http://www.cybernetic-design.net/catalog/index.php
Heres a link to Danger Den themselves, and their other European distributors:
http://www.dangerden.com/base_pages/distributors_Europe.htm
Good Luck in finding what you need! BTW....Happy New year 2 U 2!! :) :) :) :)