AMD K8 for Dummies?

[Bobsama]

Hiya. I just put up a new system; it's a pretty basic PC but I have it crunching too. I was wondering if anyone could help me with overclocking the thing. I've mainly been an Intel guy since I built my first new system (bought an E2140 + IP35-E in September 2007) and they pretty much dominated for a good long while. However, I've now built a second AMD system, and I wanted to learn how to overclock it properly. The first system I did was a Biostar TA790GXB and Phenom II X4 940, and as I was short on time, I was able to set the Biostar automatic overclock to "V12", which gave a nice 20% boost to put it at 3.6GHz. Now, however, I have a K8 that I wanted to learn on so I can overclock the Phenom II properly. Here's the specs...

Athlon 64 3500+ (Lima)
Asrock A780GXE/128M (AMD 780G, SB700)
Wintec AMPX 2x1GB DDR2 800
OCZ StealthXStream 500W
Seagate Barracuda 7200.7 160GB SATA
Windows XP Pro 32-bit

Right now I'm just using a stock cooler pulled from an Athlon 64 X2 4200+ (Brisbane). I've had failed boots at HT 220MHz and above, and just booted on HT 210MHz. What's the NB Link Speed and NB Link Width? Settings for the former are 200/400/600/800/1000Mhz, and for the latter are either 8-bit or 16-bit. I know this is the link speed, but how is this affected by HT speed? I'm assuming it scales linearly.

Here's a link to my CPU-Z valid.
http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=603675

What's "AM2 Boost"?


I understand this board isn't top quality, but I'd appreciate some help with it. I don't expect even 3GHz, but I'd like to see 2.6GHz if at all possible. These are only 45W CPUs (65nm ofc).

-Bobsama

[perkam]

How much did it cost? :wasntme:

Perkam

[Bobsama]

How much did it cost? :wasntme:

Perkam

Athlon 64 3500+: Free (paid $45 for a Brisbane about 6 months ago, yanked this chip out and put in a Brisbane 4200+)
Asrock A780GXE/128M: $70 (open-box)
Wintec AMPX 2x1GB DDR2 800: $22 (free shipping)
Seagate 7200.7: Free (yanked it out of a Dell)
OCZ SXS 500: Free (EggShocker from 6 months ago)
XP Pro: Free (:wasntme:)
XClio 188A: Free (bought for like $60 it like 1.7 year ago and replaced it with another chassis the same week I got it)
Optical drives: Free (pulled em out of a Dell)


I'm not too pleased with 10-hour work units. I'll have to see how it does over the next two weeks. So someone; anyone; help me get this machine higher?

[perkam]

Athlon 64 3500+: Free (paid $45 for a Brisbane about 6 months ago, yanked this chip out and put in a Brisbane 4200+)
Asrock A780GXE/128M: $70 (open-box)
Wintec AMPX 2x1GB DDR2 800: $22 (free shipping)
Seagate 7200.7: Free (yanked it out of a Dell)
OCZ SXS 500: $50 (EggShocker from 6 months ago)
XP Pro: Free (:wasntme:)
XClio 188A: Free (bought for like $60 it like 1.7 year ago and replaced it with another chassis the same week I got it)
Optical drives: Free (pulled em out of a Dell)Comes to $202...I KNEW IT !! I could have built you ... an i7 for that much :stick: Kidding, I just have this rig building bug :p:

All you have to worry about is the HT link with K8s, make sure the HTTxLink never goes above 1000Mhz.

So have the Multiplier at 5x if you're keeping it at stock (200 HTT), 4x if you're clocking it maximum 250 HTT, 3x if you're not clocking it past 333 HTT and so on.

Beyond that, it should be like Intel overclocking, but if you still have more questions, there's a guide here: http://www.techpowerup.com/articles/overclocking/AMD/138

G/L. Make Daddy Proud (3Ghz) :p:

Perkam

[Bobsama]

Comes to $202...I KNEW IT !! I could have built you ... an i7 for that much :stick: Kidding, I just have this rig building bug :p:

All you have to worry about is the HT link with K8s, make sure the HTTxLink never goes above 1000Mhz.

So have the Multiplier at 5x if you're keeping it at stock (200 HTT), 4x if you're clocking it maximum 250 HTT, 3x if you're not clocking it past 333 HTT and so on.

Beyond that, it should be like Intel overclocking, but if you still have more questions, there's a guide here: http://www.techpowerup.com/articles/overclocking/AMD/138

G/L. Make Daddy Proud (3Ghz) :p:

Perkam

Ah thanks. What about width? 8-bit v. 16-bit.

So from what I understand...

HTT * CPU multi = CPU clock
HTT * NB multi (1x, 2x, 3x, 4x, 5x) = NB clock
HTT * RAM multi = RAM clock


Oh, and it came to ~$100, but I also ordered another hard drive which was $50. A second Caviar SE16/Blue 320GB.

With all the issues I've had building it, I wish I would have bought an Intel E6300 + G31 board + 2GB DDR2! I'm actually feeling stupid for /not/ doing that; it would have been about the same $85 CPU, $50 board, $25 RAM overall. And this board is refusing to overclock atm.... >_<

[perkam]

Leave the HTT Upstream and Downstream Link to 16-bit for now and you should be good to go :up:

Perkam

[Bobsama]

Leave the HTT Upstream and Downstream Link to 16-bit for now and you should be good to go :up:

Perkam

:shrug: It's not working that well for me. I'll try again tomorrow I guess. I had managed to do HT 215 I think, but this board is crap. As I said, I wish I had gone with an E6300 + G31 + 2GB DDR2. I wish I could...

[perkam]

I'd start a thread here: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=58

Perkam

[jcool]

Ah thanks. What about width? 8-bit v. 16-bit.

So from what I understand...

HTT * CPU multi = CPU clock
HTT * NB multi (1x, 2x, 3x, 4x, 5x) = NB clock
HTT * RAM multi = RAM clock




That is correct bob.
Look, these things are rated for 1000Mhz HTT link and absolutely HATE anything above that. Since overclocking the HTT doesn't gain any performance either, here's what you do:

Adjust the HTT multiplier down as you bring the HTT base clock up to stay at or below 1000.

IE stock is 200 * 5 = 1000Mhz. Now if you leave that at 5x you won't get far.
Bring it down to 4x and you should be good until HTT 250. Higher than that, bring it down to 3x... I used to run a 4200+ Clawhammer at 310 HTT back in the day (granted, a DFI board..) but you will find that even the crappiest boards should do HTT 260-270 given the right settings :up:

Good luck.

[Phili]

Athlon 64 3500+: Free (paid $45 for a Brisbane about 6 months ago, yanked this chip out and put in a Brisbane 4200+)
Asrock A780GXE/128M: $70 (open-box)
Wintec AMPX 2x1GB DDR2 800: $22 (free shipping)
Seagate 7200.7: Free (yanked it out of a Dell)
OCZ SXS 500: Free (EggShocker from 6 months ago)
XP Pro: Free (:wasntme:)
XClio 188A: Free (bought for like $60 it like 1.7 year ago and replaced it with another chassis the same week I got it)
Optical drives: Free (pulled em out of a Dell)


I'm not too pleased with 10-hour work units. I'll have to see how it does over the next two weeks. So someone; anyone; help me get this machine higher?

Try running the HCC project on opensuse x64, you'll see a big speed increase!

[Bobsama]

That is correct bob.
Look, these things are rated for 1000Mhz HTT link and absolutely HATE anything above that. Since overclocking the HTT doesn't gain any performance either, here's what you do:

Adjust the HTT multiplier down as you bring the HTT base clock up to stay at or below 1000.

IE stock is 200 * 5 = 1000Mhz. Now if you leave that at 5x you won't get far.
Bring it down to 4x and you should be good until HTT 250. Higher than that, bring it down to 3x... I used to run a 4200+ Clawhammer at 310 HTT back in the day (granted, a DFI board..) but you will find that even the crappiest boards should do HTT 260-270 given the right settings :up:

Good luck.

*shrug* I must have either a dud chip or a dud board then. No matter what I do I can't get that sort of overclock. I don't have dedicated graphics to play with either; I have an X300 but that's now in a P4 (that I've not got running yet, as I need to swap a few drives around)


Try running the HCC project on opensuse x64, you'll see a big speed increase!

Not an option. This is supposed to be a daily driver for the step-dad, for the next few months.

[perkam]

The A64 3500+ was known not to be able to do more than 235 HTT on air on average, so 215HTT isn't bad, I'm guessing its the board.

Again, though, I'd make a thread in AMD section to get some more help.

Perkam

[jcool]

Hum, strange.. every AMD I had OCed to >300 HTT, even the 130nm Clawhammer, lol. The 3800+ X2 in my HTPC can do it too, but the mobo can't.. stupid Assus is limited to around 280 ;)

[perkam]

:rofl: :rotf:

I must be blind. Here I am thinking you have a A64 3500+ on 939 :lol: Here's a proper AM2 guide: http://www.overclock.net/amd-general/307316-offical-overclocking-guide-amd-socket-am2.html

I'm currently reading your User Manual now to see what OC options you have. In the mean time, please provide a couple of CPUZ screenies. :up:

Also, don't regret anything JUST yet :p:

EDIT: Here are your relevant Bios screenies:

http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/9640/cpuconfig.jpghttp://img116.imageshack.us/img116/7466/chipsetsettings.jpg

You have enough options to take this chip to at least 2.9 24/7 as Jcool said. :up:

Perkam

[perkam]

AM2 Boost -> Disable
Overclock Mode -> Async
CPU Frequency -> Up and Down in 3-5Mhz increments as usual
PCI-E -> 115Mhz
Spread Spectrum -> Auto
Boot Failure Guard -> Enabled
Cool n Quiet -> Disable
Secure Virtual Machine -> Disable
L3 Cache Allocation -> Disable
Set CPU multiplier -> (For Starters)
CPU Voltage -> 1.45v at least
Memory Clock -> DDR2 667 (We want to rule out the memory being the problem and want the highest CPU Clock atm)
Memory Settings (tras etc) -> Keep at Stock
MA Timing -> 2T
Delay Features -> No Delay
CPU NB Link -> 800 Mhz
DRAM Voltage -> Whatever the Memory is Rated At -> Don't leave at Auto

See how those work and lmk.

Perkam

[Bobsama]

AM2 Boost -> Disable
Overclock Mode -> Async
CPU Frequency -> Up and Down in 3-5Mhz increments as usual
PCI-E -> 115Mhz
Spread Spectrum -> Auto
Boot Failure Guard -> Enabled
Cool n Quiet -> Disable
Secure Virtual Machine -> Disable
L3 Cache Allocation -> Disable
Set CPU multiplier -> (For Starters)
CPU Voltage -> 1.45v at least
Memory Clock -> DDR2 667 (We want to rule out the memory being the problem and want the highest CPU Clock atm)
Memory Settings (tras etc) -> Keep at Stock
MA Timing -> 2T
Delay Features -> No Delay
CPU NB Link -> 800 Mhz
DRAM Voltage -> Whatever the Memory is Rated At -> Don't leave at Auto

See how those work and lmk.

Perkam

Why PCIE at 115? I'm running a SATA hard drive and a pair of IDE optical drives. And I'll loosen to CL6 then, I guess. Thanks for the help--I've just gotta reset the BIOS and I should be fine. I'll see if I can dial up to HTT to 260, but I somehow doubt it. And wtf it smells like fire in here. Idk I'll put it on hold for now and retry when it doesn't stink in here.

Update: I think the power supply let out the magic smoke. I swear: this is the most problematic build I've ever done! The E2140 had its own issues... the Brisbane's were software... the Phenom II was quite flawless, and now this damn Lima build is atrocious.

[Bobsama]

Yeah; just confirmed that I killed a PSU. I'll tear the mobo out of this thing in a bit and see if i can find whether or not that's dead too. As I said before, "it smells like fire in here."

[Bobsama]

Mobo's dead too. I'll probably grab an E5200 + G31 + 400CX, swap my E2140 to this box, and run it. Or, I'll grab a 940 + 790GX + HD3450 or 4650 + 400CX or EA380. I'm leaning towards the latter for the extra PPD and the upgrade for Yours Truly. $110 for E52+G31, $50 for 400CX, or $195 for 940+780G... I'll talk and see about it. I'll propose that I swap my battletested E2140 for the 940...

[jcool]

Bob, merciless killer of hardware :ROTF:
Sorry, just strange how everything seems to blow up in your hands :shakes:

Anyhow, you'll love the E5200. They are R0 step these days and hit 4Ghz on air EASY without huge Vcore increase :up:

[[XC] serlv]

Yeah; just confirmed that I killed a PSU.

What kind of PSU does a system with that chip require? What is suggested 12V rail amperage, etc? I may be able to help for little more than the cost of shipping.

[Bobsama]

serlv;3908062']What kind of PSU does a system with that chip require? What is suggested 12V rail amperage, etc? I may be able to help for little more than the cost of shipping.

Well since the mainboard died too, it needs a 0W power supply.

OCZ SXS 500W...
+3.3V @ 30A
+5V @ 30A
+3.3V & +5V max at 152W
+12V1 @ 18A
+12V2 @ 18A
+3.3V, +5V, +12V1 & +12V2 max at 481.5W
-12V @ 0.5A
+5Vsb @ 2.5A
-12V & +5Vsb max at 18.5W

Oh and I was wrong before; it's not FSP Epsilon, but it's not far off. It's Impervio. Obviously name isn't everything. As for the system itself; almost any hunk of junk could have run it, short of a 7-year-old ATX unit. Don't worry about that for now. I'm just pissed that a $65 O.B. board as well as a $55 power supply decide to randomly die on reboot. Obviously the system draws next to nothing, but that's just laughable when it dies so easily and with so little use.

[jcool]

Fortron Epsilons are great PSUs.. I have powered a few Tri-SLI rigs with them.

[Bobsama]

Little update. I found what died on the motherboard. A what looks to be a pair of transistors failed at the top left side of the CPU socket. I'm curious now whether or not this Athlon 64 Lima is dead because of it.

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/7131/1041731.jpg