HDD'less Booting Systems

[sjohnson]

IFMU - are you trying the CD boot? I've been doing Linux for about 7 years now, UNIX for MUCH longer. Distance trouble-shooting is no fun for either party, but I'll try if you can describe the issues. Here, PM or email, doesn't matter.

[TheDude]

Very interesting.....Please do explain someone...might solve my lack of hardware problems!

[IFMU]

Originally posted by sjohnson
IFMU - are you trying the CD boot? I've been doing Linux for about 7 years now, UNIX for MUCH longer. Distance trouble-shooting is no fun for either party, but I'll try if you can describe the issues. Here, PM or email, doesn't matter.
Yes I am. Basiclly, I am a complete n3wB to any kinda of *nix OS. Ive installed maybe twice and formatted within days.
Ok Ill try to throw out a few links to help with what Im testing out here.
Over on OC they have been making up some CD Booting software that will load up and run Folding. Thats it.
However, no one has explained how in the bloody hell they do it.
Ive tried every freakin version they have shown me. I had 1 version actually start and try to get Folding connected, but wouldnt. No clue which version it was, or even where it went. Think it got formatted off of the CD. heh....
Basiclly, I have 2 systems here that I can do nothing with due to no HDD's for. Neither is a great machine, but it would prolly be worth a few points in a week. 1 is a Celery333 the other is K6300. Could use them, but cant figure this crap out.
Heres the search link for OC.
Overfoldix (http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=111976&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending)
That is what you can take a look at if you would. It would be able to explain a lil better then I ever could Im sure.
I just need something that I can load up, and run w/out a hdd.

I have a router and switch here that the systems will hook up to. Cable internet, constant connection. Dunno..

Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
IFMU

[sjohnson]

OK, I've done a quick review - so if I read it correctly you're wanting to run overfoldix and it won't boot "right"? D*mn! Didn't think I'd need to burn anything, soonest I can unpack my burner is tomorrow. I'm downloading the iso for overfoldix 3.1.

Without looking at much, overfoldix is bootable CD. It boots a vanilla flavor of Linux that allows telnet access and (most importantly) contains a folding client that runs at boot. The "disk" is a memory disk that gets created in the boot process.

Maybe I can finally use this as an excuse to install isobuster and take a look at it on the HD.

Since it doesn't use any floppy or HD, my guess is that I could test it out on my sole, unpacked rig - remember I'm getting ready for a move. Don't expect too much from me tonight, but I'll take a crack at it tomorrow - being unemployed does give me some spare time 8^)

[sjohnson]

Aghh, isobuster wasn't any help, everything of interest is in binaries.

I'll burn and boot it tomorrow and let you know what I'm seeing then.

[sjohnson]

Spending some time walking around in the O/C forum you pointed to. I'll also be checking out "yattamonster' - amazing how they're using the M810/K7S5A - I picked it because of the bootable rom built into the BIOS but they're already using it :)

My goal will be to help you decide which method and how (KISS principle has to be topmost here, it might be fun to think of how to add more crunchers - but no fun at all nursing along a semi-working black box).

(Edit) OK, forget yattamonster - kewl for a seasoned Linux guy but will drive the Linux apprentice nutz. Stick with CD boot. Looks like since overfoldix doesn't use/need the CD after boot, you could even unplug the CD and use it on another box.

[Smizack]

Originally posted by sjohnson
IFMU - are you trying the CD boot? I've been doing Linux for about 7 years now, UNIX for MUCH longer. Distance trouble-shooting is no fun for either party, but I'll try if you can describe the issues. Here, PM or email, doesn't matter.

DUDE. I'm almost positive I'll need your help in the future. Our Linux guru is leaving us and I'm freakin lost... It's like trying to learn spanish!:mad:

[IFMU]

Originally posted by sjohnson
Spending some time walking around in the O/C forum you pointed to. I'll also be checking out "yattamonster' - amazing how they're using the M810/K7S5A - I picked it because of the bootable rom built into the BIOS but they're already using it :)

My goal will be to help you decide which method and how (KISS principle has to be topmost here, it might be fun to think of how to add more crunchers - but no fun at all nursing along a semi-working black box).

Heh yea that is some serious issues goin on with that sucker.

And yes, KISS is very neccesary here.
Thanks for anything, take your time and get to it when you can. Its all good here.

Just be a lil longer for me to get these up and goin. That and maybe give me a lil more time to get highly frustrated at this stuff too.. heh

[sjohnson]

Smizack - ?que pasa?

IFMU, edited my post - no yattamonster - "monster" is a key word here :) I'll concentrate on simplifying a "how-to" for CD and overfoldix...

Late here - nite all!

[Smizack]

Well. You've been using Linux/unix for over 7 years. I got forced into an email admin spot wich runs on linux.
So, I'll prolly be bugging the hell out of you!;)

[sjohnson]

Booted overfoldix this morning. I don't see any serious issues that should keep it from working right out of the box, except -

Do you have a DHCP server running on the same LAN segment as the overfoldix box you're trying to run? I could hack it once it booted, but for ease of use setting up a DHCP server for use by overfoldix would be best.

And a minor thing, but useful once this gets going and folding - it doesn't use telnet but ssh. For a ssh client, recommend getting putty for your windows box so you can access the overfoldix box(es). http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/ - pretty easy to configure and use. Plus, I use it and can help as necessary.

[IFMU]

Ok um.... heh... How do you mean a DHCP Server running? All I have is the router that all my systems hook into and there web access.

putty for windows? what exactly is that? Kinda like a VNC or something?

[sjohnson]

You need a DHCP server - assigns the IP address, gateway and DNS to the overfoldix cruncher.

Putty is a Secure SHell app. Overfoldix uses secure shell instead of telnet to access the box. You use putty to do a remote login to the overfoldix box - kinda like web access but using a command-prompt type interface only. Saves having a keyboard and monitor on the overfoldix system.

What kind of router do you use? How do you set the IP addresses on your systems? Hopefully your router can be or already is setup as a DHCP server!

[IFMU]

Ok for the IP yea Ive got a LinkSys here, cant recall exact version, but it does assign the IP's to my systems. So readin this Im presuming it is a DHCP server of sorts. heh.

Now for the rest Im still lost on the putty thing. Sounds like VNC there. Hmm.... I know some basics in DOS but Im not that fluent(Spelling?!) at it.

Ok, so where do I start here? I need Overfoldix. Which version are you using? Ive gotten several and theyve gotten mixed up. Heh, I fubared and didnt label them. Wasnt thinkin Id keep burnin more of them. LoL.. ah well
Which version so I can get the same to use here.
Thanks btw.
IFMU

[sjohnson]

Sorry, long phone call. I D/L'd overfoldix - 0.31 "swamp" - it booted fine, really NEEDS DHCP.

We need to sort out what the critical problem is.

Maybe you could boot, login as "root" (password is "0verf0ld1x" on version 0.31), and key these commands at the prompt:

ifconfig
- and -
ping -c 1 66.250.86.176

and post the output. I need to know if you're getting an IP address, and assuming you already have one, if you can get out on the 'net from the overfoldix box.

[Tweaked!]

Couldn't he install a second nic card in his main computer and run it as the server for the overfoldix rigs?
IFMU, aren't you on cable access? Meaning that you get assigned a different IP address every so offten. Or would the router handle that end and assign the same ip's to the computers?

[sjohnson]

If he setup a second NIC, then you'd have the issue of setting up internet connection sharing on that 2nd NIC box so the overfoldix rig could get out on the internet. If the LinkSys does DHCP, the simplest would be to hang the overfoldix box onto the same LAN as the other systems and let the linky do the DHCP network config.

[IFMU]

Ah yes as I download it again I realize one of the problems I had with it. Its label is ~> ofdx-0.31swamp.iso.gz <~ What the hell do I use to burn this? Ive tried NERO but it says theres an error in the label or something or another.
If I remember correctly, it would burn a bad disc if I tried it.
What did you use? or how or whatever?

[sjohnson]

I used Nero 5.5.8.2, burn image. But - did you uncompress it first, so the filename was ofdx-0.31swamp.iso ? The ".gz" extension is for gzip - winzip should understand how to uncompress it.

[IFMU]

Hrm... ok that might explain it. Im runnin XP so I havent installed WinZip, but will do soon.

[sjohnson]

Heh - I remember reading one of the overfoldix threads - the author stated it was dumb to compress the iso image, it only saved about 150 bytes - or some small amount anyway.

In any case, if you can't get it uncompressed, let me know and I can setup a temp ftp server for you to snarf the image to burn...

[IFMU]

Tis already burning. I saw that as well, but it just didnt make sense the way it read to me.. heh... ok well burning as I type.

[IFMU]

heh, well ok I got it and booted up. Got it runnin and I think its doing it all fine. I went in to switch the user name and I believe it did that rather easy. But Im not to sure which team Im using here.... and how do I know if its doing this right?

[IFMU]

heh ok new update again.. LoL...

Ok I typed in the Foldlog command, it would tell me the name and team of 32 ~ which is OC.com... Any way to change this?

[IFMU]

Hehe, ok another update. I got putty here and got it. I started just kinda going through the insisde IP's here and found one eventually that gave me a login and pass option but it wouldnt take the login and pass. What here am I missing? Not sure if I did it right, but I tried the root 0verf0ld1x route and no go.

[sjohnson]

I can't run it and post here, only one rig at home right now, but from the forums,

"...
Ofdx-0.31swamp.iso.gz on www.sourceforge.net boots completely unattended without asking any questions - you configure the user settings after it boots by "logging in" as a Linux user. You can login directly if the system has a keyboard/monitor attached or you can telnet or ssh to it over the network.

Initial login username=ofdx, password=f0ldadmin, and the superuser (root) password is: 0verf0ld1x

When you log in, it displays a message with commands to use to stop/start folding or configure it.
..."

So, login as ofdx, password f0ldadmin and it will show you 4 commands. One of them is the config command.

You could also try to open up a dos box on your PC, then "telnet XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX" - where the X's are the numbers of the IP address of the box. Might be a problem with ssh and putty keeping you from logging in.

[IFMU]

Alright Im getting somewhere here!!! schweeet heheh

Ok, I checked and I do have the newest version there, the one labeled swamp.
Apparently both logins are still viable options, just one is generic user and the other is root. heh. ok.
Now, I used putty to try to get in again and I was able to successfully!!!
I got the dos screen same as on the machine Im running it on actively!
So, now, I have change the user name, but not the team number.

Otherwise everything here is perfect!!!

Any ideas on this?

[IFMU]

Ok, now, another thing that Ive thought about here. With this when it boots, it automaticly starts the folding@Home and under Gators name and team 32. Is there a way to change this in the defualt settings?
Now that I have this portion at least remotely figured out, how do you do the boot from a server thing? Would I have to have a machine running linux to use it as a server and have the others boot from it? or could I use a Windows machine?
Now that Ive actually gotten a lil somewhere with this Ill read some more on the the yatta monster stuff and all. Just before I reached this point, it made no sense cuz it wouldnt do what it was supposed to be doing.. heh.. kew kew

[sjohnson]

Err, I'm not familiar with FAH, until I started to get ready to move was doing UD at the urging of a friend.

Anyone else? Changing the name is beyond me, unless it boils down to a Linux issue...

Other than that, :toast:

[IFMU]

Hmm ok well kew kew... I cant recall all exactly but I think it might be something thats stuck until they do some new updates to it.
Guess Ill have to do some searchin and more readin on this.
Thanks alot guy, lotsa help here!!!

[sjohnson]

Originally posted by IFMU
Ok, now, another thing that Ive thought about here. With this when it boots, it automaticly starts the folding@Home and under Gators name and team 32. Is there a way to change this in the defualt settings?
Now that I have this portion at least remotely figured out, how do you do the boot from a server thing? Would I have to have a machine running linux to use it as a server and have the others boot from it? or could I use a Windows machine?
Now that Ive actually gotten a lil somewhere with this Ill read some more on the the yatta monster stuff and all. Just before I reached this point, it made no sense cuz it wouldnt do what it was supposed to be doing.. heh.. kew kew

To make the CD use your name and team will need a "custom" CD. I'll check that out, maybe prep one for you. I've never done a custom iso before, but hey! NP - at least I'll try.

In the meantime, every time you boot it up you'll need to reset the name and team.

[sjohnson]

As far as using yattamonster, you'll need a linux boot server. I'll find the link to the doc (if you don't beat me to it), but that's a BIG step from overfoldix :)

[IFMU]

Thats just it, from what I can see, you cant adjust the team number, just the user ID.
Hrm..

edit, oh yea and no OC is freakin down... ggggrrrrr

[sjohnson]

lol, was just gonna post that oc was down. I'll check out where the team number is set tomorrow morning, when I'm fresh - and get ya some instructions on how to change that. I doubt it's that hard, they just want their software folding for them I'd guess, so they don't give an option to change the team...

[sjohnson]

OK, got the stuffs to make it fold for your team.

Forget about the web advice to login as ofdx - that user doesn't have permissions to change anything - guess the author forgot to set it up right. Always login as root, at least for overfoldix 0.31 swamp.

Once logged in, you need to edit one file. You need to use the vi editor, but NP, print out these commands and key them in as shown between the Start and End markers:

----Start---
vi /usr/bin/cfgfolding<Enter>
/team<Enter>
lllllcw<team#><Esc>:wq<Enter>
---End---

<Enter> is the Enter key
<Esc> is the Escape key
<team#> is your FAH team number

Then, run cfgfolding, key in your name and you're done.

You'll need to do this every time your overfoldix box(es) are booted because the team number is hard-coded onto the boot CD. If you're not sure, it won't hurt anything to do it anyway.

[IFMU]

Ok guy Ive been trying it as you have there and 1 part kinda confuses me and the system doesnt seem to either be doing it right, or Im missing something.

Now, it boots up,
login root
pass 0verf0ld1x
vi_/usr/bin/cfgfolding
/team

the _ is a space correct?
and once I put in the team is scrolls alot across the screen and I end up where I cant do anything. It puts the cursor in the middle of alot of text. It wont let me edit that, but if I go to the bottom, it just has exit with a 0. Wont do anything.
Now just so you know where it puts me it has this, the line above, and below where the cursor is placed after doing the /team

echo "username=$FOLDING_USER" >>$FOLDING_CFG
echo "team=32" >>$FOLDING_CFG
echo "asknet=no" >>$FOLDING_CFG

the cursor is placed where its italisized there.

Now, what am I not doing right here? Ive tried several times so I think Im doin it right, but obviouslly Im not. heh....

Next, the lllllcw3365<Esc>:wq ~ is that lower case L's? or?
Heh, sorry, I dont know squat for what commands would be.

[IFMU]

Ok wow, heh, ok I think I see what it was I was doing wrong here. I tried it again this time just leaving it completely alone and just typed it in exactly where the cursor ended up and I was allowed to change the team number!!! w00t!~!
I put in foldlog and got 3365 for the team number!!!
schweet heheh.
Ok, so it was me, theres a shocker! LoL

is there a way to see if this is actually running? without waiting to see if a WU has been finished?
And with putty, how do I use it in this setup here? or can I?
Oh yea, at the beginning I also put in foldoff wondering if that might help. dunno if it did or not, LoL..
But once everything was done, put in foldon.
Which each of those were to stop then start the folding client right?
Is there a way to see this with putty? I dont think you can log in with the root in that.... at least it wouldnt let me last night.. do something wrong here too?

[sjohnson]

Just got back from a short trip. Doesn't one of the four commands mentioned by the author show status? I remember, one was for stop, one for start, one for config and the other was ???

Doing a cfgfolding does the start/stop for you - no need to do the foldoff/foldon stuff.

Think of putty as a telnet command. I use it because the windows telnet is cr*p and because it supports a VPN-like connection over the internet. Over a LAN like you're doing, who cares if it's secure or not - so if telnet works for ya, use that.

If it still ain't clear, let me know and I'll reboot my box into overfoldix and try to get a better answer by looking over the system more closely.

[IFMU]

Ok the 4 commands I know of are,
Foldon
Foldoff
foldlog
cfgfolding

Could the 3rd be it? I havent really been able to test it thoroughly to see if it will or not.
Ive been running it on my PPro system since late last night. And I THINK it has finished a WU, but I honestly am not real sure.

Now for the putty proggy there, I have tried to use it several times and I think Ive been able to connect with it, but what Im a lil confused about is that it will only log in using the odfx login, ie, you cant log in as root.
So that limits what I can do over it.
Or did I miss something there too?

[sjohnson]

I'd try the foldlog command, should work like the "View Log file" button in the windows FAH Configure panel.

What putty error message do you get when trying to login as root? Have you tried going to a DOS box/command prompt on your PC and using telnet (telnet ip.of.overfoldix.box)?

[IFMU]

RIght Ive tried the foldlog thing, and like I said Im not sure if thats tellin me whatsup or not. Havent had it run long enough to really find out possibly.
As for the error, its giving me incorrect password. I just attempted on telnet as well and it does the same, incorrect password.
That is trying to use root & 0verf0ld1x
I tried loggin in over telnet with the ofdx and pass and would allow me to login no probs there either.
It seems it wont allow me to log in remotely as root.

[sjohnson]

Sure you're using the right root password? It's <Zero>verf<Zero>ld<One>x
Zed-vee-ee-are-eff-zed-el-dee-one-ex (say it out loud lolol)...

OK, now I'm an xtreme folding member, maybe I can run overfoldix (later tonight) and check it out for you. Will post with my observation(s)...

[IFMU]

heh, Yea Ive doublechecked my spelling each time. Taking my time to make sure I spell it right. Heh, even using the pecking @ keyboard method just so I know I got it right. So I know its not password errors.

[sjohnson]

But, you can use that same root/0verf0d1x combo when you hook up a monitor and K/b to the rig? Weird! That shoudn't be happening. Again, I'll see what I can dig up...

[IFMU]

Yup that is correct. With it connected normally, i.e. keyboard etc. No probs that I can see. But wont remotely.
Kew, thanks again for all the help here. Once Ive got this all figured out and all Ill get the "Stupids Guide to 0verfoldix" directions posted up. LoL

[sjohnson]

Forgot, I am still working on modding the overfoldix CD to boot up the way you want it to be. 3365 is the team number, OK - I've modded that in the right files.

Now I need your preferred username (instead of "Gator") to complete the mod. After that I need to try to create a bootable CD. If all that works, you won't need to login and change the infos each time it boots...

[IFMU]

Right on!!! Thats kewl as shiznit!!!
The name I use is IFMU ~ suprising isnt it?! LoL

Now I know this will prolly be a huge ass no, but Im curious, is there a way for you to explain how you did that? Im planning on making that Idiots guide, and that would be a great addition into it so the folks could get the program and then make their own alterations to it.
I will highly understand if it is a real hard linux type thing to do. But Im kinda curious about it. Always have been, just never been able to find anyone thats willing to instruct.
Thanks for all the work no matter the answer to that.

[sjohnson]

Finding and changing the team number and member name is pretty easy. I don't know how well or if it will work when I try and make the CD yet, so hold off on any cheers for the time being.

The file that gets used to create and populate the ram disk that overfoldix uses is on the CD - \ISOLINUX\INITRD.GZ - or /ISOLINUX/INITRD.GZ using Linux file seperators.

You need a utility that understands how to uncompress a GZ file, winzip works fine. Extracted, initrd.gz becomes a 67108864 byte file named initrd.

TO-DO: What's a good binary editor for Windows? I used some Linux tools that I have to edit this file, but using wordpad worries me, it's VERY slow and I don't know that it won't change some critical portion of this file.

Edit initrd. First, search for "username=Gator" and change "Gator" to "IFMU". Keep searching and replacing until all occurances of "username=Gator" have been changed to "username=IFMU"

Then, go to the top of the file and search for "team=32". Change all occurances of "team=32" to "team=3365"

Save the file. It needs to be gzip'd, don't use winzip but instead, install and use gzip from http://www.gzip.org/gzip124xN.exe .

Go to a command prompt. run gzip like "gzip initrd" This file will be added to the others on the CD, replacing the original initrd.gz for CD creation. That step remains to be done.

[sjohnson]

'K, I sux0r

Spent about 5 hours (hey, 'twas a *personal* challenge :D ) trying to convince Nero to create a linux bootable CD. Got some nice DOS boots and more than a small number of coasters but no Linux boot. Maybe after I sleep on it something will come to me.

To do this right I'd really need one, probably two mandrake linux systems, one to create the overfoldix + mods and one to burn the CD. I don't even have Mandrake, I use SlackWare and SuSe.

Except for this rig, my family's PC's are all boxed up and in storage pending my move, so getting two running Mandrake would be nearly impossible for me at this time.

I did test logging into my temporary overfoldix rig from my (Linux) router, and the ssh login as root worked perfectly - so I can't even help you with why you can't login as root. :confused:

Bah!

[sjohnson]

Almost forgot - tried to setup a DHCP server on my router. Either I failed or overfoldix doesn't do dhcp client very well. I had to manually configure the network.

The only good news is, after manually configuring the network and setting up as IFMU/3365 I was able to download work from stanford and a fold started up. No credit for the fold, I had to reboot and get windows running on this box again.

[IFMU]

Ok I gave the first shot there a try, and well when I opened it up using wordpad, it not only took over 75% of my available mem, it was toppin my CPU's out to around 75% as well. Granted, I know I need some more memory for this thing, but by god man!! Im runnin a freakin Dual here and it was laggin up the entire thing with just wordpad running!
Then once it fully loaded what you see below is all I could see. This normal?

[sjohnson]

*ONLY* 75% :) My 1.2 GHz single was pegged. Wordpad doesn't like those >1/2 Mb files, does it...

Got the newest Nero, this one has some new bootable CD options. Maybe I'll get lucky. And maybe Rene Russo will stop by for a little fun as well (watched Tin Cup last night)...

[sjohnson]

My burner has decided to stop working :(

But! How about this for an idea:

Burn the original 0.31 swamp iso to a CD-RW instead of CD-R

Edit the initrd.gz like we've discussed

Overwrite the initrd.gz on the CD-RW with the edited initrd.gz

Copy that CD-RW to a CD-R and try to boot.

Sorry I can't try it, I'm getting "Could not perform EndDisk" when I try to write either CD-RW or CD-R...

[IFMU]

Yea know, I actually ended up burning it onto a RW CD due to I couldnt find any more regular CDR's. LoL...

So when I get the chance Ill see if I can do the editting in that. I work today but I believe Im off for the next couple days after that. So I should have some time to work on it.

Im just shocked that wordpad would take so much CPU power just to open something up.. wowza.. heh...

Now, that pic that I posted above, that is norm? for all the boxes in that document? If so then yea this will take alot of time to work on. LoL..

[sjohnson]

Wordpad is NG for this. Gator's cookbook is probably the way to go, but that requires Linux. It seems like blasphemy to me, but I'd think it best to find a windoze way to mod this if possible.

For a windows-based binary editor, it's not the best I've ever used, but it's free: http://www.hhdsoftware.com/hexeditor.html

Finally, while I thought re-writing initrd.gz would work, the packet writer available at the nero site requires a special format that will keep me from doing any re-writes. If that blasted initrd file wasn't compressed, I could edit the iso file using the binary editor. No way to edit a compressed file without corrupting it, not in this life anyway...

[IFMU]

To bad almost none of that made any sense.. lol...

Whats the deal with the win based binary editor? Is that what would have to be used to edit the iso?

[IFMU]

Ok johnson, I got a task for yea here.

Description: SuSE is a popular distribution based out of Germany. The latest version isn't usually available as an ISO download, but they do offer a "live evaluation" version that runs completely off a CD.
That is what it says about the latest SuSE release.
http://linuxiso.org/distro.php?distro=2

Now, is that booting and running from the CD?