Triebwerk fans first look in person

[*|T2D|*PopovS]

Finally have got my hands on two triebwerk fans.

This is definitely something different from I have seen before. I didn't do anything scientific with them, but by the ear I'm pleased with sound level, especially TK121 low speed version (1200rpm). Black parts turns to be a rubber inserts to dumper vibration. The TK122 blowing quite a bit of air, so those fans may turn to be a kick ... after all.

http://www.dazmode.com/_image/Feser/TW/TFC_TW01.jpg


http://www.dazmode.com/_image/Feser/TW/TFC_TW02.jpg


http://www.dazmode.com/_image/Feser/TW/TFC_TW06.jpg

[NaeKuh]

they should of kept the black blades..

[ben549]

They should have been all black to match their radiators. Different colored vibration dampening mounts would be cool. Black frame + Red vibration dampening mounts = FTW lol

[*|T2D|*PopovS]

I think transparent goes quite nicely with Nickel plated parts.

[*|T2D|*PopovS]

Nice fans! Are they available?

About in a month, but price tag is $35 or so...

[LOUISSSSS]

enough about the looks.

how about some performance numbers comparing to all types of popular fans: YL, Scythe( S and Kaze), Zalman (?), Panaflo

[NaeKuh]

enough about the looks.

how about some performance numbers comparing to all types of popular fans: YL, Scythe( S and Kaze), Zalman (?), Panaflo

not in the same class unless you want to look at other 140mm fans.

And also its not fair to compare a 25mm to a 38mm.

[*|T2D|*PopovS]

The best I can do is to make temperature comparison test vs Flexes, Loons, GELID and couple others at 1200rpm on dual rad setup. Would it be any value? Martin/Vapor/Gurus what do you think?

[NaeKuh]

no i dont recomend any public test unless you want to see flames follow in how you botched your test.

Martin has his samples, so id wait for his results b4 you post public test info.

:X

The important thing is if your happy with them or not. Because if you are, then its a win in my book.

[ben549]

Here at XS we always like to hear user opinions and experiences! However, in the end we will rely on the confirmed/reliable sources (martin and so on..)

I also agree with NaeKuh, try to keep the comparisons in the same class.

[Waterlogged]

These fans may not be terrible but for $35, I think they will be a pricey disappointment. I'm betting they will be average performers with the Fester price tag.

[NaeKuh]

i honestly think it will perform on the same league as this fan:

http://www.jab-tech.com/Yate-Loon-120-x-38mm-D1SL-12D-pr-4335.html

http://www.jab-tech.com/images/D/d_4675.jpg

But as wl says, lets see, 7 dollars vs. 35 dollars.... 4 letters...

O U C H...

if they were made by San Ace, then 35 dollars iffy... for a san ace clear fan its plausable.. but not for a yate class.
Why do you think a lot of us gave up on Nexus fans?

[MomijiTMO]

Umm umm

Sexy fans which cost more than the sexy component so nahhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Martinm210]

Thanks for the pics and thoughts!!

I expect good things from these fans, there are several features I'm interested in.

-First is the fan motor hub size. All other 38mm fans have the oversized noisy motor that tends to have a noisy tick when undervolting and the larger fan hub. These fans are different than all other 38mm thick fans because of the reduce fan hub size. I suspect this will make the motor noise more similar to a 25mm fan and reduce the dead spot on the radiator as well.

-There is also antivibe mounts which will minimize vibration noise that's caused by any motor vibrations. Gaskets/antivibe measures do seem to make a difference particularly at higher speeds. Apparently these vibe mounts have two specific sides, one is raised for case application, and one is flush for radiator installation.

-The frame height is taller (55mm) so it basically has a built in shroud on the fan. This should further reduce the dead spot on rads.

-The factory daisy chain setup will make it pretty easy for clean wiring.

In the end, I get the impression that TFC really put some thought into the features included specific to radiator performance, and that could mean a really strong performer. This may not show until you do a radiator heat load type of test. I figured when I get my samples, I'll first run through the normal fan tests I've previously done, then take it one more level along with a couple of my previous group top performers on the rad for heat load comparisons.

Anyhow, I was just thinking about how well the 38mm fans did from a CFM/RPM standpoint. The only thing I didn't like about them was there motor noise due to the large motor hub/size. I think these fans will be different and that could be a very good thing....we'll see when they get here.

[Waterlogged]

It sort of slipped my mind but FCPU has had the slow and mid speed fans listed for a few days now. The CFM #'s don't look too bad but the static pressure, IMO, looks utter rubbish.

Slow speed (http://www.frozencpu.com/products/9066/fan-559/TFC_Triebwerk_TK-121_NB-Multiframe_120mm_x_55mm_Low_Speed_Fan_-_1200_RPM.html?id=vQRk8ZhQ) 1.62mm/H2O = .064 in/H2O

Mid speed (http://www.frozencpu.com/products/9067/fan-560/TFC_Triebwerk_TK-122_NB-Multiframe_120mm_x_55mm_Mid_Speed_Fan_-_1800_RPM.html?id=vQRk8ZhQ) 3.380mm/H2O = .133 in/H2O

Just for comparison sake, the 120 x38 linked by NaeKuh has 2.1mm/H2O = .083 in/H2O static pressure. It's 20mm smaller and 17mm thinner and has better pressure.:stick::fact:

[Vapor]

Static pressure scales with the square of RPM (so they're actually pretty even at equal RPM) and the center of the actual PQ curve is what counts (as well as noise) for us. I wouldn't look too far into it :)

[Hondacity]

It sort of slipped my mind but FCPU has had the slow and mid speed fans listed for a few days now. The CFM #'s don't look too bad but the static pressure, IMO, looks utter rubbish.

Slow speed (http://www.frozencpu.com/products/9066/fan-559/TFC_Triebwerk_TK-121_NB-Multiframe_120mm_x_55mm_Low_Speed_Fan_-_1200_RPM.html?id=vQRk8ZhQ) 1.62mm/H2O = .064 in/H2O

Mid speed (http://www.frozencpu.com/products/9067/fan-560/TFC_Triebwerk_TK-122_NB-Multiframe_120mm_x_55mm_Mid_Speed_Fan_-_1800_RPM.html?id=vQRk8ZhQ) 3.380mm/H2O = .133 in/H2O

Just for comparison sake, the 120 x38 linked by NaeKuh has 2.1mm/H2O = .083 in/H2O static pressure. It's 20mm smaller and 17mm thinner and has better pressure.:stick::fact:

the numbers are actually good, this could be the Gentle typhoons greatest rival 88cfm @ 30db is awesome

the price just kills it...i plan on 4 quads thats 16 fans 16 x 35 is 560$ not an upgrade path for me,

** i noticed it uses NB's nano bearing...this will sound much like the nb but with the built in shroud it might sound better. but martin records the sound after the rad, so whatever the cfm after the rad becomes thats how its gonna sound.

my 2 cents

[JOCKTHEGLIDE]

ahh...and now the tides are going to turn after martin started to give his initial impressions so far....I find this very interesting....

[MpG]

Noctua's site lists their P-series fans as being good for 1.68mm-H2O and 92.3m3/h. Granted, the fan's got an extra 100rpm of speed, but it's only a 25mm fan.

Guess we'll see in time how these things pan out, but the numbers really don't look all that reassuring, especially not for the price.

[StAndrew]

I dont think there is a stadardized way of measuring the CFM and Pressure of a fan between companies. If this is correct, then Im sure different testing methology can make it a bit difficult to directly compare fans based off of official specifications.

[Martinm210]

I dont think there is a stadardized way of measuring the CFM and Pressure of a fan between companies. If this is correct, then Im sure different testing methology can make it a bit difficult to directly compare fans based off of official specifications.

Yeah, I wouldn't put too much weight into specifications, just like pumps...the the two points given don't matter nearly as much as the curve in the middle.

For example, the

Gentle Typhoon AP-15 (1850RPM)
Max Air Flow = 58 CFM

Scythe S Flex F (1600RPM)
Max Air Flow = 63.7 CFM

Yet, under radiator testing. I measured:
GT AP-15 Actual RS120 CFM @ 12V = 34 CFM
SFlex - F Actual RS120 CFM @ 12V = 28 CFM

So if you used the max air flow as a means to determine which fan would produce more air through a radiator, you would have been wrong. While the GT has a lower specified open air CFM than the SFlex-F, it actually produced more on a radiator.

This is no different than using pump specs to choose a pump (D5 max flow vs DDC 3.2 max flow, etc.). Static Pressure and Open Air CFM are really inadequate in painting the full performance picture of a fan, they may give you a rough idea, but they can also steer you wrong. CFM on a radiator or the full PQ curve on the same test setup is necessary to make comparisons that have substance in regards to radiator applications.

I'll see if I can trade off or sell a few of the already tested fans to buy a few others for the next round.:up:

[Waterlogged]

Yeah, I wouldn't put too much weight into specifications, just like pumps...the the two points given don't matter nearly as much as the curve in the middle.

For example, the

Gentle Typhoon AP-15 (1850RPM)
Max Air Flow = 58 CFM

Scythe S Flex F (1600RPM)
Max Air Flow = 63.7 CFM

Yet, under radiator testing. I measured:
GT AP-15 Actual RS120 CFM @ 12V = 34 CFM
SFlex - F Actual RS120 CFM @ 12V = 28 CFM

So if you used the max air flow as a means to determine which fan would produce more air through a radiator, you would have been wrong. While the GT has a lower specified open air CFM than the SFlex-F, it actually produced more on a radiator.

This is no different than using pump specs to choose a pump (D5 max flow vs DDC 3.2 max flow, etc.). Static Pressure and Open Air CFM are really inadequate in painting the full performance picture of a fan, they may give you a rough idea, but they can also steer you wrong. CFM on a radiator or the full PQ curve on the same test setup is necessary to make comparisons that have substance in regards to radiator applications.

I'll see if I can trade off or sell a few of the already tested fans to buy a few others for the next round.:up:

Very true but, those fans have completely different blade structures also. These Fester fans and the YL, from all the pics I've looked at, have similar blade structures which means we do have "something" to go by.

[aka_GK]

Those brown faded blades were better than what we see here. I think for this price fan should have flawless look, but it haven't :(

[Martinm210]

Very true but, those fans have completely different blade structures also. These Fester fans and the YL, from all the pics I've looked at, have similar blade structures which means we do have "something" to go by.

True, but if blade structure is everything, I would have expected all the 25mm yates to perform exactly the same, and all of the S-Flexs to perform exactly the same, but they don't.

You could argue that the Koolance 25HBK and the S-Flex G have a very similar blade structure. The S-Flex G produced nearly 6db more noise at some levels. CFM per RPM is also very different.

I've just been surprised too many times in this fan testing to have any sort of confidence in my initial judgement by looks and specs alone. Actually that's probably pretty fitting of most water cooling parts. There are always generalities and trends that develop, but the bottom line performance is in the details that don't present themselves without testing.

That's a large part of what captured my interest in testing. Specs and marketing don't always fit actual performance. I can spew many myths that were considered "Common Knowledge" in the forums only to find out it's all speculation and completely wrong once tested. I still recall my first water cooling setup. I had two MCR320's in one single loop with a D5. It was recommended to me that my problem with high temperatures was two things. My MCR320's were crap and too restrictive for that poor D5. I spent another $80 on a second D5, split it out in two loops, and got the exact same temperature as before. I also had people that owned PA120.3's tell me that the PA120.3 was 3X the performer as my MCR320 and I'd be better off replacing both MCR320's with a single PA120.3. Both of these thoughts were completely wrong even though they were highly supported. For one radiators are so low in restristion the D5 is more than enough pumping power. Also I've since learned the PA is only an 8-15% gain over my MCR. Had I taken both pieces of advice and bought both pumps and changed out my rads to a PA, I would have spent $200 for negative performance. That's what buying on speculative based "Common Knowledge" would have afforded me. So, for me...it was a good thing I didn't listen to everything I heard, taking the dual D5 advice only cost me $80.

Bottom line, speculation and theory is fun, but it's often very wrong. If we would spend half the time we spend arguing weightless debates and apply that towards a little more testing, there would be alot less bad information to base our decision on IMHO.

[Vapor]

+1 on that post Martin :)

Also, in my experience, there's even a lot of variation between fans of the exact same model number. It's a crude mechanical device, so I guess it's to be expected :eh:

This was true at both ends of the price spectrum too: I saw a lot of variation with San Aces and Yates.

[Waterlogged]

Again, very true Martin. There are many little things that determine how well a fan will work that are impossible to tell from just a few photos on the net. There are things like the pitch of the blade...step or shallow, is it cupped or straight, is the edge curved or straight, how are the tips...rounded or pointed, how much distance from the blade to housing, overall surface area of the blade....these are some of the little variables that drive us nuts trying to figure out how well a fan will work. When I say something looks alike, it's in the most generalized form, as I can't possibly know the answers to the above list unless I have it in hand or test results for it. ;)

[Martinm210]

Yeah, I haven't even played around much with testing multiple fans of the same model, but it sounds like that's a pretty big variable in itself.

It's all good, keeps it all interesting and mysterious that way..:D

It's always alot of fun guessing performance before we know. During PQ curve testing, I thought for sure the Slipstream was going to be a top performer with that wierd curve and different sound, but guessing sound levels by ear inside a deep box like that is obviously hard to do. After running sound levels, I got the same thing as Vapor did, the slipstream is pretty loud. A little different sound tone, but still loud and the dB numbers and video recordings seem to fit that as well.

I was wrong, but oh well...I'm wrong all the time...just ask my wife:eek:...lol!

Maybe that's my problem, I'm wrong so often, I have no confidence in my guessing..:ROTF:

[Hondacity]

+1 on that post Martin :)

Also, in my experience, there's even a lot of variation between fans of the exact same model number. It's a crude mechanical device, so I guess it's to be expected :eh:

This was true at both ends of the price spectrum too: I saw a lot of variation with San Aces and Yates.

if you've seen my rad fan setup, when i switch my system off, all the Gentle typhoons would stop at the same time :D, i think the nidec bearings are just awesome, i'll check the production date on them. they're made in thailand. i bet nidec has better standards for their fans :D

how would you rank these in quality?

papst
nidec
comair rotron
san ace
yateloon lol
power logic
noiseblocker
nmb

about the yateloons, i've seen so many variations of it that...you can't rely much on their specs.. i'm just still baffled about their price its so cheap...i wonder if they're quality is compromised.