Nvidia CEO says Intel's Atom could hurt the hardware and software industries

[onethreehill]

Santa Clara (CA) - Yesterday, LaptopMag.com's Mark Spoonauer sat down with Nvidia CEO, Jen-Hsun Huang, who had some very outspoken things to say about Intel's Atom processor, including "Atom could potentially hurt the software industry."

The interview is a fairly lengthy read, but here are some key points. We've highlighted portions in bold to make them stand out. The original article reads without such emphasis:

http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/41252/113/

[Soulburner]

Jen-Hsun Huang, who had some very outspoken things to say about Intel
Well what's new? :rofl:

[Easybeat]

From the article.


So what's wrong with today's netbooks?"

Jen-Hsun Huang replied: "The Atom platform is creating an installed base that doesn't run modern applications. It doesn't run anything well from Electronic Arts, it doesn't run anything well from Adobe, it doesn't run anything well from Microsoft. I just mentioned the top software companies in the world. So in a way, the Atom platform is creating an installed base of PCs that's going to eventually hurt the PC software industry.

"I think we all have to be very thoughtful about the proliferation of PCs that are inferior to what people think a PC should be, yet still is a PC."

Talk about protecting your own.

I could go into a huge post about the vast increase in bloatware but all I will say is this-

Why would any hardware manufacturer especially in the current climate want software to be written that requires less resources to run than its predecessors?

[Shintai]

Poor nVidia...not invited to the party. :p:

[SKYMTL]

It doesn't run anything well from Electronic Arts,
Does ANYTHING out there run EA games properly?

[Calmatory]

Slower the hardware the better. No use for tons of software layers just to print and scroll some text. Heck, half a MHz machine can do it in a split of a second, but Firefox text lags with 1.6 GHz SC Celeron M.

[Manabu]

I think the message should be translated as “Atom is baaaaaaad because bloatware is slow on it.” And that’s good because bloatware companies needed a thwack with clue-by-four for a long time to stop adding more bloat and focus on pure functionality.
That is pretty much it.

[S_G]

I think the point he is trying to get across is that netbooks are not good for, *gasp*, gaming! Whodathunkit?

Netbooks are netbooks, people who use them just want to browse the web and type up documents. If you're looking for a small, but more powerful portable solution, then you're obviously going to be looking at 10 to 13 inch notebooks with much more appropriate hardware in them. And if you guys think software companies are going to start optimizing their apps for netbooks, think again. They'll just wait until Atom is good enough to run them. Microsoft Office runs well enough, but any major productivity apps (such as Illustrator) will still need the proper resources to perform simple tasks. It isn't worth the cost and effort to expand software like that into a small market like this. The software would cost more than the hardware!

[fiveprime]

Damn I was totally going to build a render farm with EEEs

[Qkjhfhaiguihfma]

Damn I was totally going to build a render farm with EEEs

haha i looked into it actually, when you can get 10 dual core atoms for the price of a single quad core i7 you'd think it'd be half viable :lol:

[hollo]

most people don't try to run games or adobe photoshop or hyper-v on a netbook.

though i wouldn't be surprised if bf2 was quite playable at low settings on an atom + 9400m
i used to play it on an athlon xp + 6600gt

[Zaskar]

Atom will be dual soon and probably quad core in the near future, if anything it might get software companies to stop having lazy coders and design their software to be more multi threaded instead of relying on 1 really fast core.

[cadaveca]

LoL PopCap games work perfect...let's be realistic here...most users of netbooks(and I know of 6 poeple now with them) are female, and want a cute little electric daytimer that has internet access.


:shrug:

what a load of bull.

[Hornet331]

Atom will be dual soon and probably quad core in the near future, if anything it might get software companies to stop having lazy coders and design their software to be more multi threaded instead of relying on 1 really fast core.

Atom is already dualcore. :welcome:

[Glow9]

u mean hurt via and Nvidia

[ToTTenTranz]

Curiously, he didn't say bad things about AMD. And the interviewer got him very well cornered with that XboX 720 question.

[lowfat]

Atom is already dualcore. :welcome:

But not in netbooks. I built my mom an Atom 330 machine and she uses it no problem for a 24/7 computer.

[Bojamijams]

nVidia: Wahhhhh

ATI: giggle

[DavCor]

I don't see what the big deal is, I've been witout my main rig for 3 weeks while ive been outa town and tweaking it right. All I have had is my Acer One with the 270 Atom, and of course it doesnt game (I'll jump on warIII and civIII and aoe2 periodically if totally bored), but anyone with half a brain will not buy a netbook for gaming. I bought it for three reasons:
1. Super portable (2.5 bls with 6 cell)
2. Super Battery life (5.5 hours on windows 7, 3 - 4 playing games, or movies, or music)
3. Super Cheap ($450 fully loaded)
Minus gaming and crazy apps it runs everything top notch (I regularly use photochop on it, and the only issue I have is the 1024x600 res bleh). While definately not my desktop, a netbook with an atom is the perfect compliment to said desktop.
I think nvidia needs to just do their own thing and stop crying about intel. They both make great products that half of us would die without.
I know I would.

[Shintai]

But not in netbooks. I built my mom an Atom 330 machine and she uses it no problem for a 24/7 computer.

This I really like. I wish more people did like you. because it does everything normal (non gaming) people need.

And I hope OEMs like Dell, HP, Lenovo etc will start to make office PCs with this. Office applications and Vista/Windows 7 works very fine and fast with Atom(Specially dualcore).

Alot of power to be saved on air conditioning and PCs in the office. Plus a much better office climate and less noice.

[XS Janus]

Its hurting the industry in a way that consumers will recognize that every thing they ever did on their PCs would still work just as well on their crusty old Pentium 3 systems if they would sell them with Windows 7 and package them with 22" monitors...
:D

[safan80]

The netbooks are just to get more people on the internet that don't have computer already. It's like webtv but more useful. People will buy better PC when they need a better one. Nvidia needs to work on better graphics cards.. and if they want to tap into the netbook market they could make USB based graphics boosters.

[FischOderAal]

This I really like. I wish more people did like you. because it does everything normal (non gaming) people need.

Yeah. I just love those who buy i7-machines and mainly use their rigs to surf the web :rofl: Guess energy is still too cheap, even in germany :shrug:
Everyone in my family uses a notebook for his/her everyday tasks. I'm the only one that still owns a PC, which I only turn on for gaming (what happens very seldom these days).


Office applications and Vista/Windows 7 works very fine and fast with Atom(Specially dualcore).

Really?! All I heard was that Vista is a pain in the ass with Atom. I'd rather take a mobile Core 2 instead.

[[XC] gomeler]

Really?! All I heard was that Vista is a pain in the ass with Atom. I'd rather take a mobile Core 2 instead.

You need to learn to take whatever Shintai says about Intel products with a grain of salt :p: Atom with 4GB of memory would handle most of Vista fine as most of the time the CPU is idling in an OS.

[Shintai]

Yeah. I just love those who buy i7-machines and mainly use their rigs to surf the web :rofl: Guess energy is still too cheap, even in germany :shrug:
Everyone in my family uses a notebook for his/her everyday tasks. I'm the only one that still owns a PC, which I only turn on for gaming (what happens very seldom these days).



Really?! All I heard was that Vista is a pain in the ass with Atom. I'd rather take a mobile Core 2 instead.

You cant feel the diffrence between a Core2/X2 and an Atom with HT on using Vista. Atleast thats my personal experience.

I had originally planned to use a Core i3 for HTPC with Windows 7. Now It gonna be a dualcore Atom 2 it seems.

Also the i5 I will buy later this year will set new records for me in lifespan I think. Unless I upgrade to a 32nm just to save more power. Or perhaps something with a potent "IGP" to save both power and space. :p:

But simply imagine all the waste in both resources and power that can be saved by using something like Atoms in all the non gaming and non CPU intensive machines.


gomeler;3615834']You need to learn to take whatever Shintai says about Intel products with a grain of salt :p: Atom with 4GB of memory would handle most of Vista fine as most of the time the CPU is idling in an OS.

Thats not true. Vista is very CPU light like any OS. Its only memory and possible I/O they demand more of.

[cadaveca]

Heh. I'm pretty impressed with ATOM as well. For what it costs, there's nothing wrong with it. Plays web-video, surfs, word-edits just fine.


I mean, really guys, you realize these 90% of netbooks don't even come with a disc-based drive? That limitation right there cuts people's expectations down serverely.


Every single person I've talked to, as in non-techy people, think of it as a glorified PDA with web functions...and great to sit in bed with to watch some webTV. :shrug:

I think most you "downers" are just scared of 'em. "Laptop...mini...can't possibly do ANYTHING!..."

Welcome to 2009! If an Iphone/Ipod touch can replace a pc for regular usage for alot of people, this IS the future! Suck it up, Princess!:rofl:

[[XC] gomeler]

Thats not true. Vista is very CPU light like any OS. Its only memory and possible I/O they demand more of.

What's not true? That Atom will run Vista well with 4GB of ram? That the CPU sits at idle most of the time? I'm unclear what point you are disagreeing with. I think you are disagreeing just to disagree :rofl:

[Shintai]

gomeler;3615866']What's not true? That Atom will run Vista well with 4GB of ram? That the CPU sits at idle most of the time? I'm unclear what point you are disagreeing with. I think you are disagreeing just to disagree :rofl:

Arh, I thought you meant that it only ran Vista well when idle :p:

Sorry!

[shiznit93]

Actually I kinda agree with him. My gf has an atom based netbook and even after a reformat to a retail copy of XP, no bloatware, I tweaked everything, the damn thing is still to slow even for basic :banana::banana::banana::banana:. Running Firefox, even without a lot of tabs and only a couple plugins, load a page with a lot of flash, especially video, the cpu usage goes through the roof and it start skipping and scrolling the page drives me crazy. No thanks on atom.

[kiwi]

What video? Atom cant handle HD yet :)

I dunno, my atom rig is perfect for everyday simple tasks and web browsing. You just have to pair it with a fast HDD and 2-4GB memory

[freeloader]

The few netbooks I've used ran XP great, Vista, not so great. It was usable, but not the greatest experience. Kind of like going from a V8 mustang (desktop) to a pinto (netbook). :D

[Shintai]

What video? Atom cant handle HD yet :)

I dunno, my atom rig is perfect for everyday simple tasks and web browsing. You just have to pair it with a fast HDD and 2-4GB memory

http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshows/showdoc.aspx?i=3494&p=7

:p:

[cadaveca]

I got a quick demo of a Dell Inspiron Mini 12 decoding a 1080p H.264 Blu-ray rip (20 - 35Mbps) while running through a Quake III timedemo. The video clip didn’t drop any frames and the Quake III demo ran at above 30 fps.


Heh. Nice entry pc.

[Easybeat]

I have the basic of basic Eee's with a 2Gb SSD, an nlited copy of XP on it and it doesn't even have an Atom in it, it has a Celron 800mhz running at 570mhz.

Fact is it runs XP fine for browsing, emails, watching movies etc and the only time it struggles is when you put on some of the software from the "Big" companies such as Adobe, Nero, Norton etc. These companies should be embarrassed and a little worried at how big their software has become compared to the far smaller and less resource hogging free alternatives.

[lowfat]

What video? Atom cant handle HD yet :)

I dunno, my atom rig is perfect for everyday simple tasks and web browsing. You just have to pair it with a fast HDD and 2-4GB memory

An Atom 330 can run 720P perfectly fine when using CoreAVC.

[shiznit93]

i meant flashbased video, for example watching something at gametrailers.com in the higher res version is very painful.

[cegras]

This I really like. I wish more people did like you. because it does everything normal (non gaming) people need.

And I hope OEMs like Dell, HP, Lenovo etc will start to make office PCs with this. Office applications and Vista/Windows 7 works very fine and fast with Atom(Specially dualcore).

Alot of power to be saved on air conditioning and PCs in the office. Plus a much better office climate and less noice.

Look, if all the office computers used anything but the ubiquitous P4, the world would be a better place. Even if it was AMD.

[Soulburner]

All of our Dell slim desktops at work have 3.0Ghz P4 HT's and they are quiet. We have maybe 300 of them.

[tiro_uspsss]

nVidia: Wahhhhh

ATI: giggle

+1

does Jen-Hsun Huang even realise how ridiculous he makes himself look when he has his lil tantrums?

signs of a desperate & defeated man - & he knows it :hrhr:

what a loser :yepp:

[hecktic]

blah.... Intel Atom saves me on my electric bill each month so screw you Jen-Hsun

[kiwi]

http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshows/showdoc.aspx?i=3494&p=7

:p:

If they can keep a $60 price tag for atom based miniITX mobos then fine :)




An Atom 330 can run 720P perfectly fine when using CoreAVC.

What's your other hardware? Is it on D945GCLF2?

[T_Flight]

Does ANYTHING out there run EA games properly?

NO. EA Games are basically DRM infested Viruses.


I think the point he is trying to get across is that netbooks are not good for, *gasp*, gaming! Whodathunkit?


Precisely. They can do alot but they are not marketed for gaming.


Yeah. I just love those who buy i7-machines and mainly use their rigs to surf the web :rofl: Guess energy is still too cheap, even in germany :shrug:

I surf the web with my i7 rig, but that's definitely not all I do with it. I cannot imagine why somebody would buy that kind of power and waste it like that assuming there is such a person. I don't know any personally. My i7 system is doing work 24/7. The only time it is not is when I shut the clients down to game, or do something that takes alot of power like Rocket simulations, benchmarking, flight simulations, flow and engineering programs, CAD, Video stuff, and things like that. I have an Xtreme System for Xtreme Use. If I didn't need it for Xtreme Use I wouldn't own it. I own it becasue it is a Multithreaded Wonderbeast! :ROTF:

[FischOderAal]

I surf the web with my i7 rig, but that's definitely not all I do with it. I cannot imagine why somebody would buy that kind of power and waste it like that assuming there is such a person. I don't know any personally. My i7 system is doing work 24/7. The only time it is not is when I shut the clients down to game, or do something that takes alot of power like Rocket simulations, benchmarking, flight simulations, flow and engineering programs, CAD, Video stuff, and things like that. I have an Xtreme System for Xtreme Use. If I didn't need it for Xtreme Use I wouldn't own it. I own it becasue it is a Multithreaded Wonderbeast! :ROTF:

Yes, you need the power obviously, but there are others that don't. They spend much on their i7-hardware just because they game sometimes (GTA IV anyone?) and they think S775 is dead. If you ask me, a Phenom II or Core 2 Quad would suffice for most of them...
If I'd do CAD, FEM and the like I would go for i7 as well. If you ask me, a Core i7 is not meant for gaming.

[Calmatory]

i meant flashbased video, for example watching something at gametrailers.com in the higher res version is very painful.

Did this come to somebody as news?

600 MHz Pentium III can't view the small sized Youtube videos, and 1.6 GHz Celeron M struggles(slight, but yet very noticeable FPS drops from time to time) with same videos @ full screen @ 1280x800.

Flash is bad, VERY BAD.

[Sr7]

The netbooks are just to get more people on the internet that don't have computer already. It's like webtv but more useful. People will buy better PC when they need a better one. Nvidia needs to work on better graphics cards.. and if they want to tap into the netbook market they could make USB based graphics boosters.

lmfao

You can't do graphics with the throughput of the USB...

USB's 40MB/s vs. PCIE2.0's 16GB/s

Hard to add value when you're bottlenecked so massively by the bus, and have to deal with latency issues as well.

[Hornet331]

Flash is bad, VERY BAD.

i agree, watching clips in flash is the abdomination youtube brought over the internet... even if i dont like apple, quicktime is hundert times better in using the available resouces on your pc in a efficient manner, rather then then flash (even worse with hd content)

[mAJORD]

IMO it's don't blame the hardware, blame the software.

If there was software out there that everyone wanted to use, that required higher end hardware, then people would want more than a netbook wouldn't they.

but there's not. Face it most (not all!, dont flame) of the people replying to this thread probably spend more time on XS than doing anything else particually taxing on their PC.. stuff you can do on an atom, or a 1Ghz Pentium 3, etc etc.

I'm sitting on my Turion ultra 2.2Ghz lappy atm, and often leave power monitor running.. Even when plugged into the wall, the thing VERY rarely goes over 1100Mhz doing th stuff I do on it.. (and when it does, its for litle half second bursts.) things like Managing my ebay biz, surfing XS, working on spreadsheets, Word.. even editing some pictures (basic functions like resizing and saving to jpg). But does it feel slow next to my 3.4Ghz X2 desktop? Very very rarely.

Most of the taxing stuff you and I might do are perfectly fine to be doing at home on the desktop, i.e yor gaming, folding, encoding big videos or whatnot. Most people who have lappies have no intention of using them for anything but mundane but very handy tasks.

[mAJORD]

This I really like. I wish more people did like you. because it does everything normal (non gaming) people need.

And I hope OEMs like Dell, HP, Lenovo etc will start to make office PCs with this. Office applications and Vista/Windows 7 works very fine and fast with Atom(Specially dualcore).

Alot of power to be saved on air conditioning and PCs in the office. Plus a much better office climate and less noice.

So from all this talk, I'm guessing you feel Idle power consumption is more important that load? for a desktop PC.

After all, what you're saying is most of the time, CPU power isn't needed..

[Shintai]

So from all this talk, I'm guessing you feel Idle power consumption is more important that load? for a desktop PC.

After all, what you're saying is most of the time, CPU power isn't needed..

Both load and idle. Maybe more focus on load as people tend to have their computer do something. Playing music, video, MSN etc.

Load factor also dictates chassis size, cooling solution and PSU. And the bigger the load/idle is. The more wasteful the PSU will also be in idle mode.

[cegras]

But wait! If you're using a computer more often, if it is a faster architecture that consumes more energy, then the total power consumption may be lower than models that idle lower since it gets the job done faster!

[GeertDB]

blah.... Intel Atom saves me on my electric bill each month so screw you Jen-Hsun

cpu will, the NB is just utter crap and consumes way more then the cpu

[Shintai]

cpu will, the NB is just utter crap and consumes way more then the cpu

The US15 chipset with GMA 500 and DX10.1 support doesnt agree with you. Also the 945 for netbooks aint bad. 11-12W total TDP with chipset+CPU. 4.3W for US15+CPU.

[DavCor]

But wait! If you're using a computer more often, if it is a faster architecture that consumes more energy, then the total power consumption may be lower than models that idle lower since it gets the job done faster!

Ok, so there is a BMW 745i and a Honda Accord. They both have to go 200 miles.
So the beemer does the trip in an hour and twenty minutes because it was going 150mph.
The Honda does the trip in two hours and fourty minutes at 75 mph.
By your logic you are telling me that the beemer gets better gas mileage becasue it got there first?
I know its not exactly the same thing, but the power consumption concept is about the same.
Even if you go faster for a shorter time, you still needed all that power to get to those speeds and maintain them for that time period.

If you were being sarcastic then disregard this, I think I'm mainly thinking out loud.

This was all typed on an atom with no framerate drops.:eek:

[Anarki]

From what I understand an Intel Atom 1.6GHz is around the same performance as a 900MHz Celeron M. I believe the Atom uses less power and the chipset it runs on is better. So with that in mind I'll continue.

I have the Asus EEE PC 900 (900MHz celeron, 1GB RAM, 20GB SSD, etc) I have installed XP on it and I can tell you this; GTA vice city runs at 1024x600 with the draw distance at 3/4 full very smoothly, It can run NFS hot pursuit 2 smoothly as well as some other games around that time.

The only thing I have found it struggles with is playing HD video :( (I use VLC player, maybe a different player will run it??)

I agree with what others have said, software companies need to code their :banana::banana::banana::banana: better!

[GeertDB]

The US15 chipset with GMA 500 and DX10.1 support doesnt agree with you. Also the 945 for netbooks aint bad. 11-12W total TDP with chipset+CPU. 4.3W for US15+CPU.

too bad the 945GC has a TDP of 22.2W, how do you get 12W total TDP?

edit// my bad, too quick on the research

the 945GSE has a TDP of 6W
the 82801GBM has a TDP op 3.3W (aspire one)

[Shintai]

too bad the 945GC has a TDP of 22.2W, how do you get 12W total TDP?
:rofl:

I think you mix nettops and netbooks again...945GSC is whats used in netbooks. Besides the US15.

Nice new account btw ;)

[cozwin]

Nvidia is hurting the software industy by making crap software and crap drivers, every nvidia product inc the chipset and gpu im using now has problem with the firmware, drivers etc.

And hardware wise, how many different problems has Nvidia been kicked in the teeth about last year.

Then of course we have the fact that technology is going alot slower then it should be because amd, nvidia and intel scrapping 24/7 over what should be standards etc.

[cozwin]

I think you mix nettops and netbooks again...945GSC is whats used in netbooks. Besides the US15.

Nice new account btw ;)

haha :rofl:

[BababooeyHTJ]

Nvidia is hurting the software industy by making crap software and crap drivers, every nvidia product inc the chipset and gpu im using now has problem with the firmware, drivers etc.

And hardware wise, how many different problems has Nvidia been kicked in the teeth about last year.

Then of course we have the fact that technology is going alot slower then it should be because amd, nvidia and intel scrapping 24/7 over what should be standards etc.

What are you talking about? My 780i NB that died, their drivers that corrupted my raid array, the 7 series nForce video corruption problems, or just the fact that they ran hot as heck?

[afireinside]

I think that so far, what a netbook is, is a low-cost PC that doesn't work that well.

:lol: so true... I don't understand how anyone uses those underpowered tiny screen/res things they call computers.

Speaking of hurting/holding back software, what about 32 bit operating systems? We have had 64 bit processors since 2004 and 5 years later there are still hardly any 64 bit apps. A majority of the world running 32 bit XP doesn't help.

[Periander6]

The US15 chipset with GMA 500 and DX10.1 support doesnt agree with you.

What the hell is the point of DX10.1 support when the GMA500 offers far lower than even GMA950 gaming performance which is itself totally insufficient for any type of modern gaming?

[Sparky]

I just forget about squeezing that last little watt out, build a PC that does what I want in everything fast enough (of course "fast enough" is never quite fast enough :D), and use it for everything.

[Shintai]

What the hell is the point of DX10.1 support when the GMA500 offers far lower than even GMA950 gaming performance which is itself totally insufficient for any type of modern gaming?

Faster/better UI support in Windows 7. Plus a few other things.

[cozwin]

What are you talking about? My 780i NB that died, their drivers that corrupted my raid array, the 7 series nForce video corruption problems, or just the fact that they ran hot as heck?

haha im sure those thinga are true too, i was on about my 650i :P runs stupidly hot, doesnt work at all, buggy as hell drivers etc etc.

Plus the new apple laptops are starting to be sent back due to problems with the nvidia chips :P

[ToTTenTranz]

The US15 chipset with GMA 500 and DX10.1 support doesnt agree with you. Also the 945 for netbooks aint bad. 11-12W total TDP with chipset+CPU. 4.3W for US15+CPU.

There are no drivers for DX10.1 on GMA500, only DX9. And they are really bad. The 133Mhz 945G from the netbooks is actually 3 times faster than the GMA500 right now.