Anandtech 1st Review Of Bloodrage

[raptor1]

http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=3489&p=1

[Thenura]

w00t

[BenchZowner]

Gary if you're reading this I'm not having any issues that force me to use the "Force Reset" button at all.

[tripgood]

New boards will be here on Monday and the fun begins. I have the same concern for a lack of new bios for BloodRage as the Anandtech article expressed.

[Klarko]

Yes but they did say there where currently working on a much better one, ill probably wait and see how much "better" it actually is.

[BenchZowner]

I'd like to hear what sort of issues AnandTech's reviewers are currently facing, as I'm not having a single glitch apart from the known issues, and two not so "crucial" for everyday usage bugs that I've reported back to Foxconn.

Foxconn is working on new BIOSes and I'm pretty sure that they'll be giving us new releases every now and then if not from day to day :D

[tripgood]

Glad to hear that! From all observations on the forums, DFI is holding a slight lead over Foxconn right now for X58. I will be deciding for myself next week.:toast:

[Raja@ASUS]

I'd like to hear what sort of issues AnandTech's reviewers are currently facing, as I'm not having a single glitch apart from the known issues, and two not so "crucial" for everyday usage bugs that I've reported back to Foxconn.

Foxconn is working on new BIOSes and I'm pretty sure that they'll be giving us new releases every now and then if not from day to day :D


Hi BZ,


I'll make a post here in the Foxconn area as I promised I would take a long term look at the board and help out where I can.

Primary problem on our 3 boards is the constant need for the 'force reset' button. To date I've tried older Micron based 1800Mhz sticks from OCZ, Corsair 2GB Samsung based modules, 2X1GB 2133Mhz CAS 9 based Samsung from Corsair, Kingston Hyper X and also the Cellshock Blue, add to that Gary's Gskill triple channel kit. PSU front - PCP 1200W PSU, Coolermaster 1200w PSU and finally the silverstone 1200w supply.

In some instances I have to go down to 1 dimm after a long power down and repeated presses of the button to get the board to fire up. I can try to take a video of the cycling with my webcam at various points if you wish - it'll take a bit of time, but will clear it up if you want to see it.

Anyway, I'm responsible for the writing and I distinctly recall saying that it may be unique to us. So I'm glad some of you out there are not experiencing the same. I wrote to Foxconn about this from the first day I fired up the board. Gary had a board stasteside so we spoke over skype while he fired up and found the same. Lastly, we made a decision to check one from Newegg. It seems that we have a combination of parts that may be causing this problem and I'm still leaning towards PSU - both gary and I fired up initially using the PCP 1200w units. Of course, that could be a red herring. Rest assured, I would not have said anything had it not have been true. Sascha has known me long enough and we've always been very honest with each other.

Nehalems boot up sequence has been enhanced over previous generations, read/write levlling is dynamically sensed on every reset, more than one person in the know has told me that. Some of the other boards are employing longer cycling times at higher BCLK reference clocks to get things right at boot time. The onus is no longer on motherboard vendors to make changes to skew tables, it happens dynamically every reset apart from on a S3 resume. That is assuming that's one of the problems. if I use 1 DImm the reliance on that button does diminish drastically, but it's still there. I have a hunch something on our boards is preventing the BIOS from entering it's full reset state - PSU?


Other than that and the AEGIS panel thing, i have no major gripes. Last bug is the triple channel DIMM 1 DQ ref, that's a BIOS code issue locking the steps to X0.496 in triple chanel mode, a quick and easy fix for the BIOS guys.

In fact, so is the red button stuff (if it turns out to affect more part combinations consistently)...

I have not toyed with S3 resume modes yet, but Gary will take a look at that functionality for the final write up. That's it. I'll be getting hold of some more CPU's to test on the cold front, so that's stll ongoing.


later
Raja

[saaya]

hmmm setfsb didnt work for you guys?
somebody else reported that the latest version of setfsb didnt seem to work, while previous versions work fine.
ill post the version number im using and will test the new version and see whats wrong.

about memory, we didnt have any problems with memory at all, so this is quite surprising...
damn, this really sucks... :(
i had no idea you guys had such a hard time with the board not booting properly... and i dont get it, we havent seen any problems like this in our labs... im going to the office now anyways and ill play around with different mem and will try to reproduce the problems you guys have... could you post some more details?

like when exactly does the board not boot properly? :(

[Raja@ASUS]

Hi Sascha,

No problem I'll compile a full report today and get it to you.


I'll start from stock cold boot, optimised defaults then some bus freq and multipler changes. We'll take it from there...


Oh and about SetFSB, yeah I used the version posted before Wednesday. Tried in both XP and Vista to no avail using the right PLL chip number. I'll have another bash once we get through this boot sequence stuff.


later
Raja

[saaya]

the last ICS chip on the list right?
and you need to boot with an fsb that isnt stock or 166, at those fsb speeds setfsb seems to not work.
im on the way to the office now and will try to reproduce the probs asap and will send you the newest beta, since we havent seen those probs before or heard of it i doubt itll change anything tho :(

so you guys tried different psus and mem and kept having those problems?
weird... i dont get it... hmmm

[Raja@ASUS]

Yeah last one sascha. Board was not at 166 BCLK, tried various BCLK ref clocks, all resulted in the same outcome.

Ok here we go..

this is ongoing so I'll keep updating.

Board has been off the testbed overnight as I had to take a picture of it for a reader over at AT.

Anyway. 1 dimm in first slot (Kingston 2000MHz 1GB).



(This booted last before the pics were taken after the red button was pressed).

First boot attempt; power button pressed, fans spin up - nothing on the post code reader, a very quick flash of C1 but fully powered CPU fan and GPU fan (GTX 280) and the board sits there like this until I turn it off with the power button (hold for 4 secs). CPU is 920



Next step clear BIOS, short battery jumper too. Boot + same result as above.


Step 3 bootup and press the red button = post..

Into BIOS, change memory from AUTO (2:8) to 2:10, apply 145 BCLk ref on 20x multi and raise voltages to sufficient levels.

Board power cycles once
Reboot = no post (still only 1 Dimm)

Press red button = post..

Next step load optimized defaults..

Board power cycles once = no post
press red button = post...

I'll carrry on with this if you want me too

this is with the PCP 1200w

[saaya]

Next step clear BIOS, short battery jumper too. Boot + same result as above.

Step 3 bootup and press the red button = post..
hmmm so you clear the bios and short the battery jumper and still cant post?
then step3 you can post? what happens between those two? wait for some time?
or do you push the power on button and then push the force reset button to be able to post?

it sounds like a psu problem... but we have this psu in our lab and it was supposedly tested and worked fine...

[Raja@ASUS]

The time after the board power cycles out of BIOS is with a blank hex code display, the board stays powered for as long as I leave it without it actually entering post. That is until I press the red button...


So on my board here anything related to a stop start cycle be it a BIOS clear, or a change of multipliers or even high BCLK reference clocks required the red button to post..


the PCP is the one common factor for me in this, let me pull another PSU from downstairs and bring it up and retry.. Gary has tried 3 apparently with the same problem.

raja

[saaya]

so this only happens with higher than default bclock? hmmm weird...

[Raja@ASUS]

Here's the sequence I just went through.

Board was powered off but PSU on standby, pressed power button at the 145 BCLK = no post again until I pressed the red button.

TO check stock clocks again, I enetered BIOS and loaded optimized defaults.

SO the board is now at total stock

Save and Exit BIOS

board power cycles itself, but no hex code display and no post until I press the red button.

I let the board boot and get to Vista Desktop then shutdown the board via the Vista GUI.

I wait one minute and then press the power button on the board to reboot and again there's no post

I leave it in that 'hung-up' state for 1 minute to see if it enters post or shuts down itself = no

press red button = post


So it happens even at defaults and only 1 Dimm

with 3 dimms and an OC the effect can be worse requiring multiple presses of the red button especially on a memory multiplier or Uncore frequency change (Uncore is always matched at 2X mem).

[Raja@ASUS]

Ok pulled an early OCZ ProxStream 1000w from one of my other rigs. Some of these early model were changed internally though at a later date.

Board boots up fine with this PSU every time.

It's a PSU-board related incompatiblility. I'll wait until Gary's up stateside and see if he can try and recreate.

The PCP 1200W here I have does not sit well with the board.

Gary might have some other PSU's he can test too.

I'll see if I can find a seriel/rev number on the PCP unit Sascha and compare with the one you guys have in the labs.

Whatever it is on this PSU, it prevents the board going into full reset.

Oddly enough, I don't have that problem using the PCP supply on any other board.

My server rig has a Corsair HX 1000w, I'll see if I can pull that later and try it too.

Raja

[BenchZowner]

Anyway, I'm responsible for the writing and I distinctly recall saying that it may be unique to us.

I can't disagree with that, your writing was politically and practically correct ;)


Rest assured, I would not have said anything had it not have been true. Sascha has known me long enough and we've always been very honest with each other.

I'm a pretty straightforward guy, so if I'm not accusing you directly, I'm not making any accusations at all ;)
I don't have a reason to not trust you, and to be clear I didn't say what I said because I had doubts, I just wanted to have the details to see if I can reproduce your issues in order to help you and Sascha in troubleshooting them :)


Nehalems boot up sequence has been enhanced over previous generations, read/write levlling is dynamically sensed on every reset, more than one person in the know has told me that. Some of the other boards are employing longer cycling times at higher BCLK reference clocks to get things right at boot time. The onus is no longer on motherboard vendors to make changes to skew tables, it happens dynamically every reset

Yeah, this is true.
And I've also noticed the slower POST progress when running higher BCLKs :)
It seems to be optimizing things pretty well, so I'm fine with it.


Other than that and the AEGIS panel thing, i have no major gripes.

I had some major issues with AEGIS Panel, but I'm probably using a older version, since I'm using the one that came on the Foxconn disc along with the mobo.
I couldn't alter the BCLK, it wouldn't apply the changes, and sometimes it would also crash the system.
So I just... stopped using it for now and wait for a newer version :D

p.s. For SetFSB I think there's a new beta version that isn't posted on Abo's website yet, send him an e-mail ;)

[Raja@ASUS]

That's ok, Bill. We're both there to help things progress rather than anything else. I'm glad things are progressing now that this potential incompatability is getting closer to being nailed. It's just a matter of finding the culprit PSU's or revisions for them. Oddly enough, this PCP unit is the same one I reviewed the Black Ops with, so I'm sitting here scratching my head atm (can't find any rev numbers on the info sticker).

There is a possibility that a number of these PSU's are in the wild, or the Silverstone and Coolermaster units that Gary has.

AEGIS panel not working was a shame for me too, as I really needed it to try and pull the BCLK and volatges around when cold.

later
Raja

[Pt1t]

That's ok, Bill. We're both there to help things progress rather than anything else. I'm glad things are progressing now that this potential incompatability is getting closer to being nailed. It's just a matter of finding the culprit PSU's or revisions for them. Oddly enough, this PCP unit is the same one I reviewed the Black Ops with, so I'm sitting here scratching my head atm (can't find any rev numbers on the info sticker).

There is a possibility that a number of these PSU's are in the wild, or the Silverstone and Coolermaster units that Gary has.

AEGIS panel not working was a shame for me too, as I really needed it to try and pull the BCLK and volatges around when cold.

later
Raja

Here, AEGIS and setfsb are working well.

[Raja@ASUS]

Hi Pt1t


You have the new beta SetFSB I believe that was not available to me at time of the preview - I'll be sure to get my hands on it.

What version of the AEGIS panel are you using and on what OS?

I scoured the Foxconn update site for a new version during the preview and sent in emails to support highlighting the problem, but from what I read into the reply there was nothing new at the time.

regards
Raja

[Pt1t]

Hi Pt1t


You have the new beta SetFSB I believe that was not available to me at time of the preview - I'll be sure to get my hands on it.

What version of the AEGIS panel are you using and on what OS?

I scoured the Foxconn update site for a new version during the preview and sent in emails to support highlighting the problem, but from what I read into the reply there was nothing new at the time.

regards
Raja

yes , i asked this week new setfsb to abo , and i use AEGIS from foxconn's Drivers CD and windows vista. In the begining the software did some crash when i launched it, after , WHY ?, It worked correctly.

[Raja@ASUS]

I asked Gary to confirm to me again; the Silverstone 1200w and Coolermaster 1200w units do create the Force Reset necessity on the Blood Rage, at least his do.

regards
Raja

[saaya]

I asked Gary to confirm to me again; the Silverstone 1200w and Coolermaster 1200w units do create the Force Reset necessity on the Blood Rage, at least his do.

regards
Raja
huh??? but im using a Silverstone 1200W all the time...
been using this PSU from the very first ES board to now and never had any issues... hmmmm could you get the serial/rev/model numbers? thanks! :toast:

Im really sorry that some of the boards have problems with some high wattage psus... i checked with our engineers and they were aware of the problem already and fixed it. only one batch of boards went out before they could rework them... according to them later boards wont have this issue at all. they were very surprised how serious this problem seems to be for you guys, cause in our labs all they found was random freezes when booting at about 1 out of 10 boots/reboots. ill forward all the details to them and will ask to order those PSUs to make sure the problem is 100% fixed in the later batches.

If anybody who reads this faces the same issue please pm me and ill get you a replacement board :toast:

EDIT: Im using Olympus(?) OP1200W Ver 1.0, is gary using the Zeus ZU1200W by any chance?
This OP1200W is quite a beast with 40A on 3.3v and 5v and 90A on 12v... so im really puzzled why it works fine why lower specced high wattage psus seem to cause problems hmmmm

[Raja@ASUS]

Hi Sascha,

Gary's away at CES for a few days from today, so I won't be able to get those unit specs until he gets back. Could not find any kind of revision history on my PCP here though..


I'll try and hit him up while he's over in Vegas and see if he's using the Zeus or Olympus.

regards
Raja

[saaya]

yes , i asked this week new setfsb to abo , and i use AEGIS from foxconn's Drivers CD and windows vista. In the begining the software did some crash when i launched it, after , WHY ?, It worked correctly.You got a BloodRage Board? Nice!!! :toast:
Did the Netherlands office send it to you? :)

weird about the crash... ill see if i can reproduce it.
Are you using Vista 32 or 64?
What version of Aegis panel?

Btw, about SetFsb, im using version 2.1.69.2 and its the last ICS PLL on the list, which is ICS9LPRS919BKL and it works fine...

http://www13.plala.or.jp/setfsb/
the latest beta you can download from abos website is 2.1.89.0 and in the release notes on the same page he mentions that he added support for BloodRage with ICS9LPRS139AKLF.

I tried version 89 and it worked fine with AKLF at first, it wouldnt read any of the speeds correctly but i could increase the bclock. then i tried 919BKL and it actually read the bclock properly! which is surprising since it didnt do so in the older version. when i tried to set the speed with 919BKL it froze windows...

The weird thing is that i now tried again AKLF and 919BKL and both give me random errors... either setfsb crashes, or i get SMBUS error or i get PLL byte error etc... this was on vista 64.

So i recommend using the older version for now... or try the new version, maybe it works fine for you.

[saaya]

Hi Sascha,

Gary's away at CES for a few days from today, so I won't be able to get those unit specs until he gets back. Could not find any kind of revision history on my PCP here though..


I'll try and hit him up while he's over in Vegas and see if he's using the Zeus or Olympus.

regards
Raja

it must be the zeus... we have several OP1200 units here and our BIOS and HW engineer are using one on one of their test stations, plus the test lab has 1, and im using 1, so... i really doubt the OP1200 has any problems with the board. maybe if theres another revision...
Btw, ill send you the parts that were changed to solve the psu problem, the easy part is removing 3 smd parts, the difficult part is adding 3 smd resistors :P
i know you got the skills and probably even the smd parts or at least some other resistors, so i hope you can do the mod and confirm it fixes the problems entirely :)

[Raja@ASUS]

Sure thing Sascha, that'll be great. I have the board here right next to me, so as soon as you find it LMK and I'll get on it soon as.


regards
Raja

[Pt1t]

You got a BloodRage Board? Nice!!! :toast:
Did the Netherlands office send it to you? :)

weird about the crash... ill see if i can reproduce it.
Are you using Vista 32 or 64?
What version of Aegis panel?

Btw, about SetFsb, im using version 2.1.69.2 and its the last ICS PLL on the list, which is ICS9LPRS919BKL and it works fine...

http://www13.plala.or.jp/setfsb/
the latest beta you can download from abos website is 2.1.89.0 and in the release notes on the same page he mentions that he added support for BloodRage with ICS9LPRS139AKLF.

I tried version 89 and it worked fine with AKLF at first, it wouldnt read any of the speeds correctly but i could increase the bclock. then i tried 919BKL and it actually read the bclock properly! which is surprising since it didnt do so in the older version. when i tried to set the speed with 919BKL it froze windows...

The weird thing is that i now tried again AKLF and 919BKL and both give me random errors... either setfsb crashes, or i get SMBUS error or i get PLL byte error etc... this was on vista 64.

So i recommend using the older version for now... or try the new version, maybe it works fine for you.

No Saaya , it was Taiwan :confused:

[saaya]

alright! from andrew right? :D cool :D

[Raja@ASUS]

It's pretty clear they see you as a threat in this segment, hence the copy. That's the positive, you're on their radar. Another thing with this industry is you don't always get credit for your ideas either. Peter has brought a lot to the table since jumping the fence into being a pivotal member of the industry as have you, just carry on this way and it'll all come good.


regards
Raja

[Pt1t]

alright! from andrew right? :D cool :D

They sent it to matbe.com