Water Cooling for Nvidia's new GTX 295???

[Brodholm]

Nvidia's new Geforce GTX 295 is going to be a challenge to wc I think. If not impossible. Or am I mistaken?

It is basically 2 cards screwed together.

http://www.pcper.com/images/reviews/651/explode.jpg

http://www.pcper.com/images/reviews/651/card_front.jpg

Here is the article about the card. Tests from PC Perspective (http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=651&type=expert&pid=1) shows that it is preforms better than the 4870X2, especially in higher resolutions. But the results may not be 100% correct but it is promising.

Release date: 2009-01-08
Price: ~500$

So what do you think? Is it possible that we can see wc for this card?

[evil-98]

not really, very similar to the 9800 GX2 which is widely water cooled

http://ekwaterblocks.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=21_31_42&products_id=253
http://ekwaterblocks.com/shop/images/FC9800-GX2-back.jpg

[maratus]

And we may see spacer kit like this one for 7900GX2
http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/sidewindercomputers/gx2spacerkit2.jpg

EDIT: Wooops, I forgot about opposite disposition of chips.

[Sadasius]

And we may see spacer kit like this one for 7900GX2
http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/sidewindercomputers/gx2spacerkit2.jpg

EDIT: Wooops, I forgot about opposite disposition of chips.

God I hope not that was an eyesore. I think it will be more along the lines of the GX2 WB.

[Acekiller]

Just a good old copper block.

[hellcamino]

Lmao, that is probably the worst done and most biased review I have ever read! I'm glad I already own 4870X2's so I know how they actually do perform and particularly with the correct driver. I thank you for linking that review as I now know not to give that site any credibility.

Don't buy the 295 based off of this review...If they installed the correct driver and the performance was still so neutered I would say they need to RMA the 4870X2 as there is something wrong with it, most likely one of the cores is dead...

[fox3]

I am not sure they had the correct drivers for the 4870x2. With their 3DMark tests I am getting 40% better scores than they are so something is not right there. I am sure more reports will be forthcoming and look forward to their results before taking this one seriously.

[hellcamino]

Yeah I would be interested to know why they used the 4830 driver for the X2 unless they were trying to make the GTX 295 look better... Another curiosity is why they didn't set COD WaW to dual cards = yes, it is a performance improvement for the X2 if you do so.

@fox3, maybe they forgot to turn forced AA on the X2 from 8x to app controlled before running vantage...

[MomijiTMO]

It will be the same as the GX2 as evil said. Shall be an expensive block due to the amount of copper used.

[T_Flight]

They are probably using the latest broken drivers from ATI which unfortunately is what most users would that don't do their homework. At any rate this card will pretty much spank anything out there or that will be coming out within the forseeable future.

Saying that, I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole though. I wouldn't get any multi GPU card near any of my rigs. They will be rejoining ATI once again in the microstuttering club, this thing will be horribly inefficient eventhough it might get high scores, it's wasteful. Two cards in SLI is gonna spank it. It will end up just like the 9800GX2 did with lack of driver support, and as shown here will be a PITA to try and cool. Not to mention because they chose to go down dual GPU path the GPU's are gonna be downclocked which is a waste of good silicon.

Why nVidia has to compete with failed ideas I'll never understand. It's not enough to have the best single GPU solution. They have to go and screw it up by trying to compete with an obsolete idea that was a failure from the start. :shakes:

[hellcamino]

@ T Flight, if you go to amd's site you can use their driver selection menu (exactly like nVidia's) to pick the right one, it's extremely simple so the use of the 4830 driver is obviously intentional. As far as the drivers being broken and micro-stuttering go...Can you tell me what it looks like? I've never seen it with these cards.

[Brodholm]

Early reviews are almost always "modified" but it seems promising. Although I would prefer a single card with 2 gpus instead of 2 cards screwed together. I hope ATI will launch there upgraded version of the 48xx. Anyone heard some dates on them?

If the 4870X2 preforms the same or a little worse than the GTX295 I will still get the X2.

I hope that the new Geforce GTX 300 is good. But I rly hope that ATI have the advantage abit longer with amd going bad and all. It would be better for us customers.

[coolmiester]

Massive fan of GX2 so can't wait for these to hit the stores and to see what block manufacturers come up with to cool them :cool:

[Acekiller]

5kgs of good old COPPER

[T_Flight]

@ T Flight, if you go to amd's site you can use their driver selection menu (exactly like nVidia's) to pick the right one, it's extremely simple so the use of the 4830 driver is obviously intentional. As far as the drivers being broken and micro-stuttering go...Can you tell me what it looks like? I've never seen it with these cards.

Here is a good article and video from a German site. It's written in English though. The video at the bottom is in German, but you can still kinda make out what they are saying in the video title. To date there has not been a fix for it. The fix is real simple. They need to stop making multi-GPU cards. It's kinda like throwing another engine in a car. If you need more power, you don't thow another engine on it, you put a more powerful engine in it. It's a cheap fix to a permenent problem. It's an engineering flaw that should've been eliminated a long time ago.

nVidis should know better, but they still have to "compete" against this crap when there's really nothing to compete against. It's making nVidia look very bad too.

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/?article_id=631668


5kgs of good old COPPER

Yeah Man! LOL I can see the pics of broken off PCI-e's already. Whew, that thing is an engineering nightmare. Everytime I look at it I have to laugh. It's like they designed it on a Monday morning while still hungover. A problem looking for a home. A real spam in a can. :D

[cegras]

Microstuttering isn't a given with multi gpu set ups. This occurs when some specific threshold is reached and is clearly overblown by people like you.

As for you saying 'two cards in SLI will spank it,' have you realized yet that this is basically SLI on a stick?

[MomijiTMO]

Shhh don't ruin their paradise.

Yeah well the biggest downer is lack of support rather than the occasional microstuttering that you don't really notice when you are trying to shoot some dude etc.

[theseeker]

Nvidia's new Geforce GTX 295 is going to be a challenge to wc I think. If not impossible. Or am I mistaken?

It is basically 2 cards screwed together.

http://www.pcper.com/images/reviews/651/explode.jpg

http://www.pcper.com/images/reviews/651/card_front.jpg

Here is the article about the card. Tests from PC Perspective (http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=651&type=expert&pid=1) shows that it is preforms better than the 4870X2, especially in higher resolutions. But the results may not be 100% correct but it is promising.

Release date: 2009-01-08
Price: ~500$

So what do you think? Is it possible that we can see wc for this card?

Strangely enough, someone always figures it out! Not to worry.
Bernie Maddof, trust me:D

[Brodholm]

Here is a good article and video from a German site. It's written in English though. The video at the bottom is in German, but you can still kinda make out what they are saying in the video title. To date there has not been a fix for it. The fix is real simple. They need to stop making multi-GPU cards. It's kinda like throwing another engine in a car. If you need more power, you don't thow another engine on it, you put a more powerful engine in it. It's a cheap fix to a permenent problem. It's an engineering flaw that should've been eliminated a long time ago.

nVidis should know better, but they still have to "compete" against this crap when there's really nothing to compete against. It's making nVidia look very bad too.

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/?article_id=631668


Is this really a problem? Or is this just extreme cases? I mean, right now it isn't any card that beats the 4870X2. I have been thinking about getting it for a long time now. But I want to see what happens with the upgraded versions of the RV770 (RV790!?!). And also nvidia have some new card on the way out (GTX 300 etc).

[IronWarrior]

Here is a good article and video from a German site. It's written in English though. The video at the bottom is in German, but you can still kinda make out what they are saying in the video title. To date there has not been a fix for it. The fix is real simple. They need to stop making multi-GPU cards. It's kinda like throwing another engine in a car. If you need more power, you don't thow another engine on it, you put a more powerful engine in it. It's a cheap fix to a permenent problem. It's an engineering flaw that should've been eliminated a long time ago.

nVidis should know better, but they still have to "compete" against this crap when there's really nothing to compete against. It's making nVidia look very bad too.

I don't agree with your logic, having more engines in one card is better then one engine per card, you can find many things in life that are dual engines and to be honest, it is the way of the furture, if one engine was best, we wouldn't have things as dual, triple or quad cpus.

[NaeKuh]

YAY!

were back at one at massive sized waterblocks bending boards.. :rofl:

The 9800GX2 is no joke, neither is its block.

And im sure theres a few of us out here that knows how sick 2 of them in sli weighs..

[Gir92]

Ugh, I wish nVidia would wise up. :\

The hot sandwich design is incredibly inefficient. Waterblocks for it will easy cost 150-200 bucks. No thank you.

[Waterlogged]

Ugh, I wish nVidia would wise up. :\

The hot sandwich design is incredibly inefficient. Waterblocks for it will easy cost 150-200 bucks. No thank you.

How is $150-200 for 1 block that cools a core on 2 separate PCB's any different than paying $100+ each for 2 blocks to cool 2 completely separate cards?:shrug: It all evens out in the end. We saw it work out that way with the 9800 GX2's.

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

They are probably using the latest broken drivers from ATI which unfortunately is what most users would that don't do their homework. At any rate this card will pretty much spank anything out there or that will be coming out within the forseeable future.

Saying that, I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole though. I wouldn't get any multi GPU card near any of my rigs. They will be rejoining ATI once again in the microstuttering club, this thing will be horribly inefficient eventhough it might get high scores, it's wasteful. Two cards in SLI is gonna spank it. It will end up just like the 9800GX2 did with lack of driver support, and as shown here will be a PITA to try and cool. Not to mention because they chose to go down dual GPU path the GPU's are gonna be downclocked which is a waste of good silicon.

Why nVidia has to compete with failed ideas I'll never understand. It's not enough to have the best single GPU solution. They have to go and screw it up by trying to compete with an obsolete idea that was a failure from the start. :shakes:

T, lets be real here, YOU have never used a multigpu solution and thus you wouldn't know anything about it. I will tell you this that you will hear from any user of SLI of CF. You almost never notice micro stutter EVER; 99% of the times that you do notice it you are at unplayable frames in the first place so its a moot point oh and BTW single GPU's stutter too, actually about as much as any regular dual gpu solution you can come up with. Lastly: the point at which you reach the noticable stutter from a multi GPU solution is FAR beyond the point that the single gpu can display playable framerates.

[hellcamino]

I have to agree with Sniipe on this one, I've been enjoying the hell out of 4870X2 CrossfireX after all the bs problems with using SLi (nfarce chipset pretty much ruined that) and I have never ever seen any microstuttering. The closest I have gotten to that is recently when I had to pop in some backup ram as my D9 kits were beginning to get errors (RMA time :( ). 2gb of ram vs 4gb when playing COD WaW at max settings - 1920x1200 res causes the occasional glitch that is solved by backing settings down a bit.

[NaeKuh]

How is $150-200 for 1 block that cools a core on 2 separate PCB's any different than paying $100+ each for 2 blocks to cool 2 completely separate cards?:shrug: It all evens out in the end. We saw it work out that way with the 9800 GX2's.

hehe..

because he wishes they were like ati and laid out side by side... so one thin block is needed and not a most definitely 200 dollar waterblock.

The GX2 block is NO JOKE. MOFO is heavy.

[BringerOdeath]

I have 2 9800gx2's in SLI that are watercooled on my Rampage II extreme and yes, they are very heavy!! :O

[T_Flight]

T, lets be real here, YOU have never used a multigpu solution and thus you wouldn't know anything about it. I will tell you this that you will hear from any user of SLI of CF. You almost never notice micro stutter EVER; 99% of the times that you do notice it you are at unplayable frames in the first place so its a moot point oh and BTW single GPU's stutter too, actually about as much as any regular dual gpu solution you can come up with. Lastly: the point at which you reach the noticable stutter from a multi GPU solution is FAR beyond the point that the single gpu can display playable framerates.

psssst...check my last post...there's a video...it's there...you can see it.

Your right I am not using dual GPU cards, and microstuttering is a big reason why. My freind has them, he hates them, and so do I. Lemme give you a hint when I will ever buy an nVidia dual GPU card or an ATI x2 card...the 12th of never.

[NaeKuh]

psssst...check my last post...there's a video...it's there...you can see it.

Your right I am not using dual GPU cards, and microstuttering is a big reason why. My freind has them, he hates them, and so do I. Lemme give you a hint when I will ever buy an nVidia dual GPU card or an ATI x2 card...the 12th of never.

then you will never run a 24+inch on maxed out settings and play excellent games with decient frame rates.. :D

Well maybe next next gen cards..

I bearly get away with my HD4870X2 with everything MAX'd.

[BringerOdeath]

I Don't see any problems and it looks very smooth to me! I belive the micro-stutter is also related to a cpu or memory subsystem that are not fast enough to keep the multigpu's synced!! I get over 27000 3dmark06 points and my games run great(I use a 30" display at 2560x1600)! :D

[hellcamino]

then you will never run a 24+inch on maxed out settings and play excellent games with decient frame rates.. :D

Well maybe next next gen cards..

I bearly get away with my HD4870X2 with everything MAX'd.


Do they still make monitors under 24" ?

[T_Flight]

then you will never run a 24+inch on maxed out settings and play excellent games with decient frame rates.. :D

Well maybe next next gen cards..

I bearly get away with my HD4870X2 with everything MAX'd.

Sorry, I already am. A 32". 16xMSAA, Supersampling, Ultra Tex, Ultra Trees, Ultra and High on everything. min 36.2, avg 58.6, max 84.0. It'll go a little higher once I get the water on it.

I am waiting on those next cards and will be stepping right up.

[IronWarrior]

hellcamino, can I ask you what drivers you are using for your 4870X2's?

Did you have any problems getting them running and working?

Am getting two in the next few days, want to be ready, since I heard so many problems about them.

[hellcamino]

hellcamino, can I ask you what drivers you are using for your 4870X2's?

Did you have any problems getting them running and working?

Am getting two in the next few days, want to be ready, since I heard so many problems about them.

I am using 8.12ccc for vista 64, they have been problem free and seem to run best with 4gb or more ram. I think you will be extremely pleased with your purchase. They also scale very well with increased cpu speed and high fsb.
If you aren't water cooling the cards yet you will want to enable the ATi overdrive and set your fan speeds up around 60% making sure to set this for both cards. Be careful to set your in game settings to max :) and enable adaptive AA in video settings in the ccc.

Enjoy!

[NaeKuh]

Sorry, I already am. A 32". 16xMSAA, Supersampling, Ultra Tex, Ultra Trees, Ultra and High on everything. min 36.2, avg 58.6, max 84.0. It'll go a little higher once I get the water on it.

I am waiting on those next cards and will be stepping right up.

on a 280GTX??? when my HD4870X2 wont? <--- doesnt sound right to me...

What games you playing? cuz on Crysis i dont break 50fps on a intesense scene..

[warriorpoet]

Sorry, I already am. A 32". 16xMSAA, Supersampling, Ultra Tex, Ultra Trees, Ultra and High on everything. min 36.2, avg 58.6, max 84.0. It'll go a little higher once I get the water on it.

I am waiting on those next cards and will be stepping right up.
No offense meant, but this is starting to sound like a Newegg review :D

[Linchpin]

on a 280GTX??? when my HD4870X2 wont? <--- doesnt sound right to me...

What games you playing? cuz on Crysis i dont break 50fps on a intesense scene..

I could be wrong but I think you can't get a monitor bigger than 30" in which case he's using an HDTV and those max out at 1920x1080.

[warriorpoet]

I could be wrong but I think you can't get a monitor bigger than 30" in which case he's using an HDTV and those max out at 1920x1080.

http://www.anandtech.com/GalleryImage.aspx?id=3467
http://firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_geforce_gtx_280_260_performance/page10.asp
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=13736&page=12&search=gtx280

:shrug:

[T_Flight]

on a 280GTX??? when my HD4870X2 wont? <--- doesnt sound right to me...

What games you playing? cuz on Crysis i dont break 50fps on a intesense scene..


:ROTF: I knew 'yall would like that one. Yeah, it's an HTDV at 1360x768. That was in Company of Heroes. It does pretty well in the flight simulators too. I'm still messing with that end because I only have Vista on the drive right now, and my main flight sim (Free Falcon) doesn't get along with Vista too well. I need to setup XP in dual boot and get my Velociraptor going. Basically I just have a single drive with everything thrown on it. Still trying to oragnize all my data from years and years. I've got data on IDE drives even that needs to be moved...it's a mess.

Back to the FPS though, I'm gonna try Fallout 3 possibly. After I get my water we'll see about that. I'm mainly into combat flight simulators. I love my Falcon 4 and Free Falcon. It's an old title and the graphics aren't like alot of this new stuff, but it's a very realistic flight simultor. Once you get into it, and get a good HOTAS, rudder pedals and TrackIR, and headset, and get online and start flying with these gifted pilots it's alot of fun. We have some real characters in that community and we do some funny stuff sometimes too. It takes awhile to learn it...actually it's a lifetime learning expeience, but it's very cool.

[NaeKuh]

:ROTF: I knew 'yall would like that one. Yeah, it's an HTDV at 1360x768.

:rofl:

:up:

HDTV FTW!!!

LOL... i should of specified resolution instead..

1920x1200

[fox3]

pffft real men fly props ;)

Actually I have most all of the jet sims but enjoy IL2 Sturmovik. Gots a Cougar HOTAS with the Titanium Evenstrain mod and Simpeds but get a bit nausea with track IR so I just maintain a good SA. If you ever see a BlitzPig server up join in.

[warriorpoet]

:ROTF: I knew 'yall would like that one. Yeah, it's an HTDV at 1360x768...

:D

HOLY MASSIVE PIXELS, BATMAN! (see what I did there?...)

nVidias are pretty much the only cards for flight sims, eh?

[T_Flight]

pffft real men fly props ;)

Actually I have most all of the jet sims but enjoy IL2 Sturmovik. Gots a Cougar HOTAS with the Titanium Evenstrain mod and Simpeds but get a bit nausea with track IR so I just maintain a good SA. If you ever see a BlitzPig server up join in.

Try to fly less than 50' off the deck at 500knots ingress to the target area with SA10's around. If you even so much as peek above 50' you will get a BIG fast mach 4 surprise. hahaha Nyeah! :D On the TIR I had that a little bit too, but got used to it. With SAM's you have to be able to do quick checks around or you may never see them coming. Some of them like 10's you only get a split second of a visual...maybe. They're nasty.

I have a Cougar too. It's stock right now. I want an FSSB sensor, but they are $$$!!!!

[NaeKuh]

hehe...

i perfer running up to someone using maximum speed, then shifting to maxium strength and belting him 10 feet away. :rofl:

Throwing Rats with maxmium strength is also fun too.

[Solus Corvus]

:ROTF: I knew 'yall would like that one. Yeah, it's an HTDV at 1360x768.
I remember playing at that vertical resolution...on my SLI Voodoo2s. LOL. :p:

[FrostyPanda]

Anyone know if 6-way sli will be possible (3x gtx 295)? Say on the evga x58 xli? Damn that'd be one fast mother. I just hope they continue CUDA support throughout these lines.....

[BringerOdeath]

Anyone know if 6-way sli will be possible (3x gtx 295)? Say on the evga x58 xli? Damn that'd be one fast mother. I just hope they continue CUDA support throughout these lines.....

Only if Nvidia would add support for it in drivers, but it probably won't scale well...They would still be bottleknecked by the CPU....

[T_Flight]

They'll be bottlenecked by the PCI-e lanes before they get that far. If he has an OC'd i7 it's hard to say if that would be bottlenecked, becasue they scale so well with SLI, but I haven't seen any over Tri-SLI yet. Even up to Tri, they do very well. 6 may be pushing it, but I don't think the platform is gonna support it very well, and I'm 98% sure that nVidia won't be supporting it with the drivers.

[Cyrus_the_Virus]

http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq48/cyrus240sx/DSC00097.jpg

my tri sli 260's do farcry 2 everything maxed 1080p, at an avg of 50fps....

would be better if my q6600 didnt bottleneck the :banana::banana::banana::banana: outta my computer lol

[hellcamino]

Holy cow! Take your pc out of the room before you sand anymore sheetrock in there...lmao

[BringerOdeath]

They'll be bottlenecked by the PCI-e lanes before they get that far. If he has an OC'd i7 it's hard to say if that would be bottlenecked, becasue they scale so well with SLI, but I haven't seen any over Tri-SLI yet. Even up to Tri, they do very well. 6 may be pushing it, but I don't think the platform is gonna support it very well, and I'm 98% sure that nVidia won't be supporting it with the drivers.
I am not sure the pci-e lanes will be a bottleneck, I had my second 9800gx2 in the bottom slot(white) of my Rampage II extreme and thinking it would not be getting enough bandwith, I moved it into the second 16x slot. I benched 3dmark06 when the second card was in the second slot and the third. The scores were exactly the same.....:eek:

[warriorpoet]

...
would be better if my q6600 didnt bottleneck the :banana::banana::banana::banana: outta my computer lol
Time for an OC :D

[Salad Fingers]

It will be the same as the GX2 as evil said. Shall be an expensive block due to the amount of copper used.

Copper is much cheaper now days

[Cyrus_the_Virus]

Time for an OC :D

but im at 3.6ghz already!

In Scotties Voice:

"The Ship can't take anymore cap'n!"
:ROTF:

[BringerOdeath]

Well, they should probably use acetel or lucite or something in the center and only copper for the 2 plates and water channels!! This is what made the EK blocks cheaper than the EVGA blocks that were $250!!!

[T_Flight]

Copper is much cheaper now days

Order me some up and have it shipped here tax free. Here is the US people actually rip the copper pipes out of houses. It's like Gold. Literally. Theives look for houses that are uninhabioted and up for sale, becasue they are easy targets, and they know they can make a King's Ransom even if they take the stuff and sell it for scrap prices.

Lemme know price per pound...seriously. I would even have a plane fly over there to pick it up and haul tons of it back if it's cheap enough. I know of mnay places that can do machining. If that metal is cheap enough I'll find something to machine. It might not be waterblocks, but if it's made out of Cu I could make a fortune at the prices they charge for that stuff here. Even reselling the raw materials.

Seriously, how much? Try to get a per pound price. High grade copper now, no alloys or filler metals.

[T_Flight]

but im at 3.6ghz already!

In Scotties Voice:

"The Ship can't take anymore cap'n!"
:ROTF:


Yep, what he said above. OC it. I've got mine running 3.8GHz on stock air man. It should have alot more in it. I only need to bump the vCore to 1.25 to achieve that. It gets hot at certain benchmarks, but I haven't used anything yet that has really got it that hot for any length of time. The hottest thing I've tried was Fritz Chess. That dang program ought to be a burn in test. It got it up to 75 full 100% load 8 Core HT. That was only 5-10 minute runs though.

I'm running Mem 2:12 1684MHz 3360 UCLK. I set the UCLK twice the RAM. I have the RAM running 8-8-8-24-1T (1N) at 1.65v vDIMM (DRAM). QPI/DRAM (VTT) is left at auto. Note: Be careful with QPI/DRAM (what used to be VTT) that's the voltage that if you go too high will kill one of these. Also avopid a QPI/DRAM to DRAM delta of greater than .5v. I have not Primed it yet, and won't be until I get my water on there, but it seems stable. No crashes or OS corruption, and the only BSOD's I've had was when I was changing stuff or playing with things. I haven't kept track, but it's very few BSOD's. Maybe 4-5 when I first messing with it. After I got a feel for how it acted, I knew where to stay away from BSOD territory.

Try bumping it a bit. These i7's scale really well with SLI. I've also read that you wanna be in the blue slots for dual SLI. Only use the bottom one if your doing Tri. I've also read a few weird things when people used the top blue and bottom white.

Check your PSU while something is running really hard and check the PCI-e connetors. Check your rail voltages when something is loading the the CPU also. I always do that to make sure the PSU is holding up real strong under load.

These things should easily do 3.8. I have seen some folks have a bit more trouble with 4GHz, but many are getting 4-4.2 out them. Getting above 4.2Ghz gets increasingly difficult, but can be done, but you gotta be real careful about the heat and make sure the cooling is keeping it in check. These things can get hot quick. I guess that's the price for all that work they are douing as fast as they do. These things are mean mean Computing machines!

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

wait so let me get this straight T_flight.... you whine about MultiGPU solutions and you game at 1360x768????

no wonder you have no perspective whatsoever about what the best high end gpu solutions are... your playing at a resolution lower than 1280x1024.

Hell, a single 4850 would give you massive totally playable framerates with the highest settings and AA nevermind a 280 :rofl:


(PS not meant to be mean, just in shock at this ;))

[T_Flight]

Thank you,

Once you start gaming at 1920x1200 or what I game at, 2560x1600, it's another world all together. I'd still be running a S-478 board and my Ultra 6800 AGP card if that's all the resolution I was running:D

andyc

It ain't res that matters. It's size. I can pick out a target from 30 miles away and fire on it before most in my group can call a Tally on it. I get calls like "Gimme a bulseye on that, I don't have it." I've given flights Bullseye coordinates and thery still couldn't see it. All the res in the world doesn't matter if your target is a single pixel 30 or more miles away.

That's not to mention that a Sceen this size at that kind of a res would cost into the 5000 to 5500 range IF you could find one with a res of 2560x1600. I don't know if they make one with that high of a res. I could potentially go multi monitor, but it look like :banana::banana::banana::banana:e unless you remove the screens from the frames. The black frames ruin the immersion.

I can assure you, that wouldn't be flying very long with a 6800Ultra online man. Well, not unless you wanted to be a professional target! Most get tired of getting shotdown and gear up eventually. I know, becasue I've got one of those Old 478 boxes with a 6800GT clocked well in excess of Ultra flashed with a Gainward BIOS, and their ain;t no way that thing is gonna run CoH at full setting at even 800x600 sqaure box res. Ain't a snowballs chance. It would be a 2-4FPS slideshow.

Serious gaming? Try Crysis or Fallout 3 at 1360x768 with full on settings with that 6800Ultra. You will will get a freeze. It might stand a chance of rendering a FPM (frame per minute). :rofl: If a fully modded 6800GT can't do it, there is no 6800 that can. That card was so modded it looks like a cartoon of it's former unmodded self. When I built that machine I just got stupid with the mods on that thing. That technology is so far obsolete it's almost an oxymoron when discussing this kind of hardware and what it's used for. That technology has been "retired". The only thing it will ever be used for again is maybe an ocasional check to check the folding logs.

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

the point is T that you dont need half of the power you have. I would venture to say that an 8800 gtx would be perfectly adequate in your system.

In my system at 1920x1200 a single 8800 gtx would cry for its momma and crash.

a single 4870 512mb looks like a weak child at this res with the settings turned up, and that is why we NEED multi GPU. you talk all this trash about multi gpu and youve never seen it for yourself (and no a video doesnt count) well let me say this, the only time I've seen stutter is on farcry2 with 8xaa and all ultra settings, a level that tvery few systems can pull off and where ATI driver support was weak at the time (1week after release)

So in conclusion I ask respectfully that you make no more fuss about multi-gpu on principal and rumors alone

[Salad Fingers]

Seriously, how much? Try to get a per pound price. High grade copper now, no alloys or filler metals.

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj121/Player1_WP/Random/LMECopper.jpg

Price (at 5:30pm Aussie time) $2,282US per Tonne

1 Tonne = 2 204.622 621 8 pounds

$2282/2205lbs

=$1.03per pound



EDIT: I should clarify a couple of points here before you retort...
1. The graph is just a graphical representation of the cash price of copper – just trying to show how it’s plummeted in recent months.
2. Since the cash price is 60% less now than its recent peak a little while ago, treated/purified etc.... copper should also be cheaper.

We have seen the same thing happen with oil prices and petrol here in Aus.

[BugeyedEarl]

I don't have anything against multi-GPU, but sandwiching multiple board just simply looks ugly when it comes to watercooling.

I mean half the fun is in the bling, and there won't be much bling if that ugly board covers up the nickel plated waterblock yes?

[T_Flight]

the point is T that you dont need half of the power you have. I would venture to say that an 8800 gtx would be perfectly adequate in your system.

In my system at 1920x1200 a single 8800 gtx would cry for its momma and crash.

a single 4870 512mb looks like a weak child at this res with the settings turned up, and that is why we NEED multi GPU. you talk all this trash about multi gpu and youve never seen it for yourself (and no a video doesnt count) well let me say this, the only time I've seen stutter is on farcry2 with 8xaa and all ultra settings, a level that tvery few systems can pull off and where ATI driver support was weak at the time (1week after release)

So in conclusion I ask respectfully that you make no more fuss about multi-gpu on principal and rumors alone

Dude try to lay off the talk about what you *think* I know about these machines? OK? Can you do that? It really pisses me off. I've been messing with these machines for 20 years, so I do know a bit about them. I also have a freind that spends about 5-8 grand a year on them and am over there alot messing with them. He goes through hardware like I used to. That should give you a hint. I quit 10 years ago what he does today.

One thing you keep ignoring is the fact that I don't just game on thsse machines. They are not just for playing. They're not toys. I fly and do simultions with things that take massive ammounts of power...both on the CPU and the GPU, and yes, I most definitely NEED every bit of the power I currently have and then some. If I didn't I wouldn't have it would I?

I will say it again, YES even at 1360x768 you will not get the sliders all the way up on a flight sim. They're not games. They are not about these cartoonish massive nuclear hand grenade explosions. They are about rendering terrain at far distances with high terrain levels. Only a fool would try and fly a sim like that at some rediculous high res. It won't happen. I don't care of you are Bill Gates and spend any ammount of money on hardware. It simply does not exist. So, saying that, only rthe most powerful solution that one could buy when they upgrade is the only logical choice to get them as close to that goal as possible. If you doubt this I can show it to you graphically with the most powerful hardware there is currently available with captured video via fraps. Putting two GPU's to it would make matters even worse as the mismatch would cause "terrain popping" like crazy.

These simultions ain't "shoot 'em up" FPS games dialed down to run and hide stutters. They are simulations that even some of the next gen stuff is gonna have problems with getting high FPS. I know fellow pilots with 8800's also, and they have proven to me with video that it won't cut it. It might with Free Falcon, but it won't with OF or FSX.

If you can show me a 4850 and or a 4870x2 that'll do 8000 PPD folding on a single GPU client I'll tell you what. I'll go agaimnst every moral fiber in my being and grit my teeth and buy one. It doesn't have to be fancy. Just the text log form the client.

[T_Flight]

Note: Edited Image Out
Price (at 5:30pm Aussie time) $2,282US per Tonne

1 Tonne = 2 204.622 621 8 pounds

$2282/2205lbs

=$1.03per pound



EDIT: I should clarify a couple of points here before you retort...
1. The graph is just a graphical representation of the cash price of copper – just trying to show how it’s plummeted in recent months.
2. Since the cash price is 60% less now than its recent peak a little while ago, treated/purified etc.... copper should also be cheaper.

We have seen the same thing happen with oil prices and petrol here in Aus.


:clap: WOW! THANK YOU! Seriously! Oh --- My --- God! You just made my night, and made my entire next year with that. I am gonna do some checking to see how I can pull this off. If I can make this work legally (which is what I have to find out about) It looks like I'm gonna be taking a 14 1/2 hour ride to the other side of ther planet. :yepp:

:eek: Oh my god man. Yeeeessssssssssss! Dude, i appciate that more than I could ever express in words here. I gotta get off here. I gotta do some research on this right now. I had NO idea. This is golden. Whew...I'm gone. See you folks maybe Christmas Eve and Day for a bit.

[p2501]

Wasn't this thread about watercooling the GTX295? It's amazing how some people can lead threads this far off topic. :shakes:

I emailed Watercool about if they'd do a block for this card, but they haven't decided yet if it'll be worth it. So, does anyone know about EK, DangerdDen, etc.? :shrug:

[BringerOdeath]

I am sure EK and Dangerden will make one, I just don't know how fast they would be available....

[p2501]

how fast they would be available....

That's the problem. I don't own a G200/G200b card yet, but I plan on buying the GTX295 and from what I've read they really shine with low temps, much more than with more volts (speaking about normal everyday use here). So I'd say it's key that all of them get their blocks out fast so we have something solid to play.

[Cyrus_the_Virus]

Yep, what he said above. OC it. I've got mine running 3.8GHz on stock air man. It should have alot more in it. I only need to bump the vCore to 1.25 to achieve that. It gets hot at certain benchmarks, but I haven't used anything yet that has really got it that hot for any length of time. The hottest thing I've tried was Fritz Chess. That dang program ought to be a burn in test. It got it up to 75 full 100% load 8 Core HT. That was only 5-10 minute runs though.

I'm running Mem 2:12 1684MHz 3360 UCLK. I set the UCLK twice the RAM. I have the RAM running 8-8-8-24-1T (1N) at 1.65v vDIMM (DRAM). QPI/DRAM (VTT) is left at auto. Note: Be careful with QPI/DRAM (what used to be VTT) that's the voltage that if you go too high will kill one of these. Also avopid a QPI/DRAM to DRAM delta of greater than .5v. I have not Primed it yet, and won't be until I get my water on there, but it seems stable. No crashes or OS corruption, and the only BSOD's I've had was when I was changing stuff or playing with things. I haven't kept track, but it's very few BSOD's. Maybe 4-5 when I first messing with it. After I got a feel for how it acted, I knew where to stay away from BSOD territory.

Try bumping it a bit. These i7's scale really well with SLI. I've also read that you wanna be in the blue slots for dual SLI. Only use the bottom one if your doing Tri. I've also read a few weird things when people used the top blue and bottom white.

Check your PSU while something is running really hard and check the PCI-e connetors. Check your rail voltages when something is loading the the CPU also. I always do that to make sure the PSU is holding up real strong under load.

These things should easily do 3.8. I have seen some folks have a bit more trouble with 4GHz, but many are getting 4-4.2 out them. Getting above 4.2Ghz gets increasingly difficult, but can be done, but you gotta be real careful about the heat and make sure the cooling is keeping it in check. These things can get hot quick. I guess that's the price for all that work they are douing as fast as they do. These things are mean mean Computing machines!

Im on a Q6600 right now, which is why my computer is bottlenecked even at 3.6ghz, but I do plan to get a i7 920 and o/c the :banana::banana::banana::banana: outta it....

and ill stop derailing the thread now :)

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

sounds like flight simulators r srious bizness ;)
Simulation of real life huh? Show me this real life sky without clouds and a 200 mile viewable distance that cannot possibly be simplified into a smaller texture to account for the limited resolution of the human eye. It sounds like the simulators just aren't taking the right approach to rendering. I am sorry for sounding condescending, I don't want to be an enemy to anyone. It just baffles me that you say just because a program renders inefficiently that it is not a game and that it is something different... it still runs on directx so to me its still a game.

[Salad Fingers]

:clap: WOW! THANK YOU! Seriously! Oh --- My --- God! You just made my night, and made my entire next year with that. I am gonna do some checking to see how I can pull this off. If I can make this work legally (which is what I have to find out about) It looks like I'm gonna be taking a 14 1/2 hour ride to the other side of ther planet. :yepp:

:eek: Oh my god man. Yeeeessssssssssss! Dude, i appciate that more than I could ever express in words here. I gotta get off here. I gotta do some research on this right now. I had NO idea. This is golden. Whew...I'm gone. See you folks maybe Christmas Eve and Day for a bit.

sarcasm much!?!?!?

[Extigy]

Off topic again - i am sorry. I went to a LAN party a while back and someone ive played fps with for years and is really good brought along a 32" tv with a crappy resolution (1024x800 i think!)- i took the piss at first - and it did look really quite s**t compared to my lovely NEC monitor, but getting headshots and shooting people from a distance was alot easier!

On the price of copper (and many other metals), i believe the raise was due to China building the infrastructure for the olympic games (i know that was where ALOT of metal was going to a while back)

[T_Flight]

sarcasm much!?!?!?


No no no! I'm being genuinely sincere. I can make a PILE of money from this. That assuming I can work out the legality and getting it into this country without getting raped by the Gov't. Thatr's what I'm looking into. I can't get ahold of my Lawyer to find out who soecuializes in that. It may have to wait until after Christmas. This copper can be machined into all kinds of things here, and it's like gold! Literally like Gold here. We pay a fortune for that stuff here. Just having the raw material is like owning a gold mine...I'm being deadly serious. No joke. Gott get back to the grindstone around here. There's lots going on here and I'm gonna be really busy until after Christmas now. Most of my family is here, and the rest will be here by tomorrow...hopefully there won't be any delayed flights.

[Salad Fingers]

On the price of copper (and many other metals), i believe the raise was due to China building the infrastructure for the olympic games (i know that was where ALOT of metal was going to a while back)

that is a crock of Sugar Honey Ice Tea.
Considering how much metal the rest of the planet uses building a few stadiums for the Olympics is tiny! And even if it is true, you should see the same ting for the Athens Olympics too, and I don't see any price hike?? Raw materials over the past 2-3 years have been hugely overpriced - just like everyone’s houses, and other investments in general.

How any of this relates to cooling the GTX295..... I don't really know lol!

[orangekiwii]

4870 works perfectly fine at 1920 by 1200 for me

Just thought i'd throw it out there that Dual Cards are NOT necessary to run everything high at that res
(btw i have 512 not 1 gig)

But... I did volt mod it :D

[tcorbyn]

My GTX 295 is on its way.... and I have a spare loop waiting to be filled... Has anyone seen any sign of a GTX295 waterblock being made?

[Shoggy]

My GTX 295 is on its way.... and I have a spare loop waiting to be filled... Has anyone seen any sign of a GTX295 waterblock being made?
The answer is only one click (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=213804) away ;)

[Hijack]

I have a Cougar too. It's stock right now. I want an FSSB sensor, but they are $$$!!!!

Don't worry, you'll be buying FSSB when the crumby stock gimbals wear out eventually! So will I :D

[Aberration]

I prefer the NXT. I thought about the FSSB, and it sounds nice. But I think it would be a real pain in the ass for BlackShark.

[Aberration]

sounds like flight simulators r srious bizness ;)
Simulation of real life huh? Show me this real life sky without clouds and a 200 mile viewable distance that cannot possibly be simplified into a smaller texture to account for the limited resolution of the human eye. It sounds like the simulators just aren't taking the right approach to rendering. I am sorry for sounding condescending, I don't want to be an enemy to anyone. It just baffles me that you say just because a program renders inefficiently that it is not a game and that it is something different... it still runs on directx so to me its still a game.

I am sure if there was a way, they would have done it.

It is even the same thing with Armed Assault. Turn the view distance up, and your FPS starts taking a hit big time. I got mine set to 3Km now with the 4870 1GB. With the 8800GT I couldnt even set it to 1500Km.

A flight sim is rendering far past 3Km. LOD's are used of course.

Flight Sim X is made by Microsoft, I am sure if there was a better method they would have done it. And that is the most brutal flight simulator there is on the consumer market. Crysis doesnt have :banana::banana::banana::banana: on that game. Not in detail necessarily, but in the games ability to bring a machine to its knees.

Its not all about graphics rendering either that flight sims are just so brutal. Its everything that goes along with being a flightsim.

[fox3]

Don't worry, you'll be buying FSSB when the crumby stock gimbals wear out eventually! So will I :D

I had the gimbals in my kitty switched out to titanium with the Evenstrain mod. The first dozen or so Greg fabbed in Titanium the rest I can't say if they hold up as well. Five or six years now and it is still like new, actually the longest I have had a JS w/ out failure.