First WC Build, dual loops. [Archive]

IronWarrior

12-18-2008, 12:20 PM

Can someone please really quickly help me fill in the missing parts for this?

Like, what screws, tubes and whatever else that I need for all this and I need 6 good fans?

I heard them San Ace one's are meant to be the best, but can't find them at any UK seller, anything else as good?

My new PC is a i7 965 / ATI 4780 x2 on a Asus P6T Deluxe

Full build topic here: http://www.xtremesystems.org/FORUMS/showthread.php?p=3501261#post3501261

Cost is not a issue.

Any help you can give is warmly welcomed, thank you.

CPU
CPU COOLING : APOGEE™ GTZ Extreme Performance CPU water-block
http://www.swiftnets.com/products/Apogee-GTZ.asp#gtzcorei7

CPU Plate
Hardware: Apogee GTX and GTZ Hold-Down plate and socket 1366 motherboard back-plate kit

GPU
Swiftnet VGA COOLING: MCW60-R Rev2 Universal Water-block (Quantity 4)
http://www.swiftnets.com/products/mcw60-R.asp

GPU RAM HEAT SINK
Swiftnet VGA COOLING: CALDERA full cover heatsink for AMD HD4870X2 Graphics Cards (Quantity 2)
http://www.swiftnets.com/products/Caldera-HS.asp

RADIATOR

Swiftnet MCB-120™ "Radbox" Revision 2 kit - Black
http://www.swiftnets.com/store/product_details.asp?ProdID=298

Swiftnet Radiator - MCR320 Quiet Power Series with integrated Reservoir - TRIPLE 120mm Heat Exchanger - Gloss Black (Quantity 2)
http://www.swiftnets.com/products/MCR320-QP.asp

Swiftnet MCP655™ 12 Volts Industrial Pump with speed controller (Quantity 2)
http://www.swiftnets.com/products/mcp655.asp

Swiftnet MCRES-Micro Rev2 Hi-Flo Reservoir (Quantity 2)
http://www.swiftnets.com/products/MCRES-MICRO-Rev2.asp

Pellepel

12-18-2008, 12:28 PM

I would change your pump to DDC 3.2(MPC 355) with XSPC Res Top. Tubes is depending how large you want it. 1/2 ID will give the best performance.

IronWarrior

12-18-2008, 12:33 PM

Can you please explain why a DDC 3.2 (MPC 355) and a XSPC Res Top?

I don't know really anything about water cooling, sorry for my ignorance. :p

zeroibis

12-18-2008, 12:44 PM

IronWarrior

12-18-2008, 12:48 PM

It is important to get the best pump possible for your setup especially one with good head pressure. The best thing that money could buy (within reason) is the 355 with that top. That top is recommended because out of all the tops available it increases performance the most :up:

Also I want to add that if cost is not a problem you may want to hold out for the GeForce GTX 295 in January. 2 of those will be better performance than what you are getting now. Although it might not matter if you ocing a lot on your gpus as it will probably take a while for blocks to come out for the 295. ;)

Yeah I read about that, there is a very high chance that I be building a new denab computer in jan as well, so we try the new 295's.

Changing pump now, so does the number system go down then?

This is the correct pump right? http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/XSPC-Laing-DDC-Pump-12V-Ultra(18w)-Acrylic-Reservoir-with-G1-4-Threads

Hmm, it has Acrylic, I hear that can crack?

IronWarrior

12-18-2008, 01:14 PM

Hmm, reading up on the 355, it seems to have a bad rep: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=168059

Linchpin

12-18-2008, 01:22 PM

Hmm, reading up on the 355, it seems to have a bad rep: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=168059

Different revision. The MCP355 is a rebadged Laing DDC, the DDC 2 version was rather failure prone but the current 3.2 version is as reliable as the MCP655.

IronWarrior

12-18-2008, 01:41 PM

I think I might have to go back to the 655, since I know where to buy that, did find this here: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=WC-004-SW&tool=3

Since am UK based, I prefer to buy from local retaillers, but if I buy the 655 from swiftnet, then I can place a large order for every item and get it dropped off in one go without having to go to one retailler here, one retailler there for many different parts.

moogle

12-18-2008, 02:47 PM

2 x 655's?

What case you got (or getting) :P

IronWarrior

12-18-2008, 03:10 PM

LIAN LI PC-P80: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112159

Yeah, worried about fitting it all in, but how else can you do it?

Chruschef

12-18-2008, 03:28 PM

I noticed your other threads.. I'm going to guess your going dual loop.
For your CPU loop, I would run an MCP355 with EK top rev. 2 XSPC top Rev. 3
For your GPU loop, I would run an MCP655 with EK top.

... you forgot tubing! :(

http://www.petrastechshop.com/
^^^
go here!! I'm pretty sure if you contact them, they will ship out of the US. Sure the shipping is a lot, but its worth it. They carry San Ace fans, the exact ones you'll want too.

Also, your going to want a fan controller for those fans. If price is not an issue, I would also suggest either adding another radiator, or picking up some HWLabs Black Ice GTX 360 rads. With san ace fans, those thick radiators should yield very low temps.

Your also going to need some kind of clamp to make sure that tubing doesn't come off.

The last thing I can think of right now, if you do order from petra's is some PTnuke. A couple drops, and your loop will be biocide free. :up:
Without some kind of anti-biocide your watercooling loop is going to get a lot of algea and stuff :down:

Take a look around their website, they have some great stuff... and since budget isn't an issue, you can go crazy on their website, and buy some "XTREME!" stuff.

IronWarrior

12-18-2008, 03:37 PM

Can I buy everything that I need from that website?

I really want to keep it to one website, easy to order and track then.

EDIT: Some of their stuff is out of stock, typical.

EK top rev. 2 XSPC top Rev. 3
EK top.

Wasn't able to find these things.

Question, will the things I have listed work through?

Blazing fire

12-18-2008, 05:16 PM

Good choice on the swiftech full cover water block. http://www.swiftnets.com/products/gtx200.asp

I HATE MCP655 (D5) for it's high pitch whine at speed 5. If you're within 1.5 meter of the pump and the sound is not concealed (no case), you will hear it. The irony is that the 4870 is another source of high pitch whine. Anyway, I suggest you go with MCP355 (DCC3.2) + top too. Higher head pressure.

You may want an ek supreme as some say this higher restriction block would take advantage of higher flow in a single loop setup. That being said, you may want 2 pumps for redundancy.

if you're using low speed fans or highly undervolted fans, you may want to go with feser (TFC) or thermochil. Do note that the latter uses G3/8 threads, while the normal wc stuff (barbs, blocks etc) uses G1/4. Don't get confused with BSPP/S or NPT though. "G" is the spacing. "BSP/NPT" is the type. BSP has 60 degree angles while NPT has 55.

Tubes: You may want 7/16"ID, 11/16"OD tygon 3606 or 3400 or the silver ones. If you want colour, get coloured tubes. Do not get dyes.

If you want to spend money on fittings (barbs), do get bitspower fatboys. Looks good IMO.

moogle

12-18-2008, 05:41 PM

Can I buy everything that I need from that website?

I really want to keep it to one website, easy to order and track then.

EDIT: Some of their stuff is out of stock, typical.

Are you currently in USA or in the UK? If you're in the UK you can get most things except for a few bits and bobs, like the newer Swiftech blocks maybe.

Checkout http://www.chilledpc.co.uk
Best place so far for me and a few others for water cooling stuff in the UK. It has the i7 plate for the Swiftech GTZ block. Me myself I wouldn't get the Swiftech 4870 block because it's not a full copper block. For what it is doesn't really justify it's price for me.

FWIW my MCP655 doesn't whine on setting 5, and it doesn't seem to get as hot as the DDC's. That said I do have a few DDC's too becuase the D5's are a bit bigger.

Tubing recommended is good. As for the dyes stuff. I've always used ready dyed coolant (Feser One) and never have had problems or staining. The only ones that stain are the dyes where you mix them yourselfs with distilled water, in my experience.

Deluge

12-18-2008, 05:55 PM

I HATE MCP655 (D5) for it's high pitch whine at speed 5. If you're within 1.5 meter of the pump and the sound is not concealed (no case), you will hear it.

I'm sitting 2 feet away from a D5 in an open case on it's highest setting and I hear nothing. The only time I ever heard my D5 was when I filled the system the first time.

IronWarrior

12-18-2008, 05:56 PM

So the MCP355 is this one right? http://www.swiftnets.com/products/mcp355.asp
Top for it? http://www.watercoolinguk.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1229

Is this worth to buy: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=WC-004-SW&groupid=701&catid=193&subcat=1042&name=Swiftech%20Laing%20D5%20Vario%20MCP655%2012V% 20DC%20Pump

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/XSPC-Laing-DDC-Pump-12V-Ultra(18w)-inc-Acrylic-Top

Man, I thought water cooling was meant to be simple, this is more confusing then a jigsaw, am starting to think my first choice of phase cooling all this was better.

UK here moogle, am English m8.

IronWarrior

12-18-2008, 06:05 PM

Just looked at that website Moogle, seems really good, has a large selection there.

moogle

12-18-2008, 06:18 PM

Man, I thought water cooling was meant to be simple, this is more confusing then a jigsaw, am starting to think my first choice of phase cooling all this was better.

UK here moogle, am English m8.

Ahh well then get the stuff from UK shops then :)
Water cooling is easy. There's just lots of different bits and bobs and options thats all.

I just hope you don't get bitten by OcUK :)

Just looked at that website Moogle, seems really good, has a large selection there.

Yeah it's run by a great dude. Always quick to get orders out. If some things say out of stock on the website don't think it is. When I ordered my full setup from there the EK Supreme was out but suprisingly my order arrived anyway :)

Send the guy (Tom) an email through the site, he's been watercooling for yonks and can help spec you up a kit and probably can part ship those USA bits for you if he can get them. He does run the site by himself though so emails aren't replied to instantly :D

Deezle

12-18-2008, 06:19 PM

I'm sitting 2 feet away from a D5 in an open case on it's highest setting and I hear nothing. The only time I ever heard my D5 was when I filled the system the first time.
Same here, 2 feet from it sitting in an open case and cant hear it, my rig is pretty quiet too (25db fans).

Boyu

12-18-2008, 06:23 PM

I HATE MCP655 (D5) for it's high pitch whine at speed 5. If you're within 1.5 meter of the pump and the sound is not concealed (no case), you will hear it. The irony is that the 4870 is another source of high pitch whine.

same here, my MCP 655 also make a high pitch noise, have to tune down the speed to get rid that sound,:(

IronWarrior

12-18-2008, 06:35 PM

Ahh well then get the stuff from UK shops then :)
Water cooling is easy. There's just lots of different bits and bobs and options thats all.

I just hope you don't get bitten by OcUK :)

Yeah it's run by a great dude. Always quick to get orders out. If some things say out of stock on the website don't think it is. When I ordered my full setup from there the EK Supreme was out but suprisingly my order arrived anyway :)

Send the guy (Tom) an email through the site, he's been watercooling for yonks and can help spec you up a kit and probably can part ship those USA bits for you if he can get them. He does run the site by himself though so emails aren't replied to instantly :D

You think if I email him or phone him and explain my system, he can work out everything I need then post it or for us to pick it up?

Yeah, seems like everyone hates OCUK, if we get :banana::banana::banana::banana:ed upon, we will deal with it and just order the rest of the parts from scan.co.uk

Sent him a email now, going to see if I can find his phone number tomorrow, he must have one.

moogle

12-18-2008, 06:46 PM

You think if I email him or phone him and explain my system, he can work out everything I need then post it or for us to pick it up?

Yeah, seems like everyone hates OCUK, if we get :banana::banana::banana::banana:ed upon, we will deal with it and just order the rest of the parts from scan.co.uk

Yes if you email him with what you want cooling and your specs (including case) he can show you what parts you'd need. It'll be the similiar parts like have been specced here. Perhaps you could change the tubing to suit your colour or get something extra etc.

Yeah Scan are good too. They just don't specialise in watercooling like OcUK don't but if they got parts from there then you can get them.

A lot of the users on hexus are against OcUK for good RMA reasons. One guy made the mistake ordering watercooling components from there and got sent a faulty/leaky pump and when he phoned up to RMA the guy on the line said they knew about their faulty batch etc. He never got his damaged board replaced though.

All those negative comments you hear about them is too much for it to be coincidence. If you were getting something that doesn't break (maybe a mouse mat :D) then it'd be safe ordering from there.

shoopdawoopa

12-18-2008, 06:52 PM

With your budget and want of high quality parts I would get a TFC or thermochill rad, as it will give a bit better results

Blazing fire

12-18-2008, 07:33 PM

With your budget and want of high quality parts I would get a TFC or thermochill rad, as it will give a bit better results

Only with low speed fans. BIX performs better with high speed fans. With medium, it's on par with MCR320 (I think).

moogle

12-18-2008, 07:41 PM

Thermochills FTW. Lower the noise the better.

IronWarrior

12-19-2008, 10:42 AM

So this is what Chilled PC UK has recommmend me.

2 x Laing ddc18w with xspc tops (this is the MCP355 3.2)
2 x Swiftech Mcres Micro v2
1 x Swiftech MCR320 for the base of the case possibly looking at the pictures
1 x Thermochill PA120.3 for the back of the case
1 x Swiftech Radbox - to hold the Thermochill Pa120.3 on the back rear fan space
1 x Swiftech Apogee GTZ + Core i7 Mount
4 x MCW60 rev2 - May have to order the 4870x2 heatsink from swiftech
6 x Scythe S-flex 1200 rpm fans - for the radiators - consider changing the case fans to these as well. Alternatively the Yate Loon series of fans also compare well.
12 feet x 7/16" clear tubing.

Additives, PT_Nuke for anti algae with some G11 coolant as well.

All good?

Acekiller

12-19-2008, 10:46 AM

Spankyfart

12-19-2008, 11:00 AM

So this is what Chilled PC UK has recommmend me.

All good?

Why not get the XSPC reservoir top?
Less hassle with more tubing and it's very good performance wise.

moogle

12-19-2008, 11:08 AM

OcUk Rules OK:yepp::yepp:

No they don't, not in my book, only for fanboys and lucky customers maybe.
Plus those that want to pay above other retailers prices ;)

There's a forum post on CPC starting off with a loyal OcUK customer saying how good they are and all. A year later and 18 pages on the post he has his own RMA annoyance by them. Hmmm great service that...

Anyway enough of that shoddy shop.

So this is what Chilled PC UK has recommmend me.

It all looks good Iron but I would probably get a full cover block. The only advantage the MCW60 has is the ability to be used on alot of other cards. The full blocks really are never compatible with more than 1 or 2 graphics cards. As for changing the fans, I would leave them I suppose the Lian Li ones are quite quiet and push a decent amount of air.

I see only one PA rad but I'm not sure if it can cool all you're getting (A 4870X2 is hot, but 2! :eek:). I'd do dual loops.

For the coolant I'd just get Feser One in whichever colour I want the loop as. It hasn't stained my parts yet which is nice but like I've said making my own dyed coolant seems to stain the parts better, which is bad...

Apart from that I can't see anything bad with it. Maybe if you want it to look flashy you could get compression fittings, but then you'd need 1/2" tubing as I don't know of any comp fittings for 7/16" tubing.

HTH

Why not get the XSPC reservoir top?
Less hassle with more tubing and it's very good performance wise.

I must say I've got two of them and they're good, but when you're trying to bleed the DDC's are pumping too fast the bubbles in the system shoot down the tube in the res and straight back into the impeller and into the loop. Pita to bleed. From what I've see the Swiftech res keeps bubbles to a minimum with that seperator in the middle. Plus you can drill it and tap it to make more inlets or outlets.

Spankyfart

12-19-2008, 11:16 AM

I must say I've got two of them and they're good, but when you're trying to bleed the DDC's are pumping too fast the bubbles in the system shoot down the tube in the res and straight back into the impeller and into the loop.

I've only got mine since.. uhm oktober and it took a fair amount of time to get the bubbles out.
My old Eheim did it within 30 minutes but the ddc+ and res top took atleast 3 hours to get rid off the bubbles.

Good thing it doesn't involve manual labour, and you'd only have the hassle once a year at most.

I do think they look great together, I'm loving the set. Pretty smexy if you ask me.

moogle

12-19-2008, 11:24 AM

I do think they look great together, I'm loving the set. Pretty smexy if you ask me.

They sure do, XSPC DDC top or Res top. Whichever they are they both glow fantastically with 2 LED's in them :D

Spankyfart

12-19-2008, 11:35 AM

They sure do, XSPC DDC top or Res top. Whichever they are they both glow fantastically with 2 LED's in them :D

Contemplating to make 2 windows in my build, also would have an additional use as a flow checker (if you can actually see the flow in the reservoir, never checked that).
That's how much I like them ;)

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/6769/dsc3917ke1.th.jpg (http://img377.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc3917ke1.jpg)

IronWarrior

12-19-2008, 12:12 PM

No they don't, not in my book, only for fanboys and lucky customers maybe.
Plus those that want to pay above other retailers prices ;)

There's a forum post on CPC starting off with a loyal OcUK customer saying how good they are and all. A year later and 18 pages on the post he has his own RMA annoyance by them. Hmmm great service that...

Anyway enough of that shoddy shop.

It all looks good Iron but I would probably get a full cover block. The only advantage the MCW60 has is the ability to be used on alot of other cards. The full blocks really are never compatible with more than 1 or 2 graphics cards. As for changing the fans, I would leave them I suppose the Lian Li ones are quite quiet and push a decent amount of air.

I see only one PA rad but I'm not sure if it can cool all you're getting (A 4870X2 is hot, but 2! :eek:). I'd do dual loops.

For the coolant I'd just get Feser One in whichever colour I want the loop as. It hasn't stained my parts yet which is nice but like I've said making my own dyed coolant seems to stain the parts better, which is bad...

Apart from that I can't see anything bad with it. Maybe if you want it to look flashy you could get compression fittings, but then you'd need 1/2" tubing as I don't know of any comp fittings for 7/16" tubing.

HTH

I must say I've got two of them and they're good, but when you're trying to bleed the DDC's are pumping too fast the bubbles in the system shoot down the tube in the res and straight back into the impeller and into the loop. Pita to bleed. From what I've see the Swiftech res keeps bubbles to a minimum with that seperator in the middle. Plus you can drill it and tap it to make more inlets or outlets.

I thought the MCW60s are meant to be better at cooling then the full water blocks?

moogle

12-19-2008, 12:20 PM

I thought the MCW60s are meant to be better at cooling then the full water blocks?

It is, it's more like a CPU block because it's machined with finer fins. But for me with an 4870X2 you'd be needing two. Then you've got two X2's! It'd be a hassle for me but as you say it will be better performance, and if thats what you'd like then stick with it :)

Contemplating to make 2 windows in my build, also would have an additional use as a flow checker (if you can actually see the flow in the reservoir, never checked that).
That's how much I like them ;)

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/6769/dsc3917ke1.th.jpg (http://img377.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc3917ke1.jpg)

Yeah you could see the impellers spinning :)
Nice pets, what are they? :p:

Acekiller

12-19-2008, 12:25 PM

OcUk are ok by my standards. Firstly I am for South Africa orginally so if you crappy service go there. Also I now live in belgian order my HAF 932 comes in 2 days. I am not trying to pick a fight or saying I am a fanboy just by my standards its good.

IronWarrior

12-19-2008, 12:43 PM

It is, it's more like a CPU block because it's machined with finer fins. But for me with an 4870X2 you'd be needing two. Then you've got two X2's! It'd be a hassle for me but as you say it will be better performance, and if thats what you'd like then stick with it :)

Yeah you could see the impellers spinning :)
Nice pets, what are they? :p:

Am thinking you are right, the MRC things has two holes each, so 4 on a card, makes 8 connections, that be tricky as hell for us to connect up, case is already going to be full to the brim.

I guess the full cover blocks it is, but am weary over them, I hear the full blocks can crack in time. :s

Ah moogle, you said you only noticed one radiator there, but there is two in the list, just different versions.

So, decided to go with that list, changed the MCW60s to Full Cover blocks, also asked for some cable managament stuff, hopeful this by monday/tuesday, hopeful will start to get the PC stuff tomorrow.

moogle

12-19-2008, 01:51 PM

I guess the full cover blocks it is, but am weary over them, I hear the full blocks can crack in time. :s

Ah moogle, you said you only noticed one radiator there, but there is two in the list, just different versions.

The only blocks that usually crack are the acrylic ones :(
I've yet to see a Delrin block crack (tough :banana::banana::banana:rds those) but with delrin you can't see through the cover (ie it's non transparent). If you wanted to have a see through block with resistance to cracks a plexi glass topped one would be more durable. Anyway the Swiftech block you were first getting was Delrin I think and wasn't majorly see through so you might be satisfied with another Delrin/Copper block :)

You're right I missed the MCR (was in a bit of a rush :p: ). I mostly associate Swiftech with blocks or pumps but yes that rad is another great performing one, and highly recommended at XS if I've read enough posts :D

Tsaroth

12-19-2008, 02:10 PM

My pump is silent at setting 5. I have it right next to me with the side panel off. I never have any high whiney pitched noises coming from it.

Besides, you guys talk about head pressure and the aftermarket tops. Doesn't the 655 have it's own aftermarket top now with this?.......

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=24823:39101ee50bd0fe8c715c649505d24d8b

I don't know how it performs or what not but if it's the aftermarket top that makes the smaller pump better then maybe this will work for the 655.

I'm sitting 2 feet away from a D5 in an open case on it's highest setting and I hear nothing. The only time I ever heard my D5 was when I filled the system the first time.

moogle

12-19-2008, 02:25 PM

I don't know how it performs or what not but if it's the aftermarket top that makes the smaller pump better then maybe this will work for the 655.

I think the top for the D5 adds a few features (mounting and barbs options) and increases the flow a bit. The increase is more significant on the DDC's though but it still doesn't match the D5's flow rate. It does however beat it's max head delivery though (pressure).