do you recommend this

[quattro_]

im going to add another pump to the cpu loop, will it increase temps much if i place the second pump just before the cpu block?
it goes like this:
XSPC res/top -->mcp355 -->PA120.3 -->mcp355/XSPC-top -->EK Supreme .

the reason i want to do this is:
-i have an extra pump and top :)
-if i put two pumps after each other its not going to increase flow as much as putting one before the Supreme and after it.

[brinox]

if you run the pumps at full speed with just one block then yes it probably will increase temps.

i had 2 DDC-2's in my build a while ago and didnt see a lick of temperature improvement. the added heat dump of the pump really offset any performance improvement.

really, the only reason for 2 pumps is any loop with more than 2 blocks, and/or multiple blocks that carry HIGH restriction. the other benefit of 2 pumps is pump redundancy, and in the case of the DDC line of pumps, it might be worth your while.

i currently run one DDC-2 at around 7v and its perfectly fine for my x3110 and my 4870 FC block

[MomijiTMO]

Well if you have the pump why not try it to test this theory.

I think your temps won't increase because your rad can deal with the extra heat dump and you have a supreme.

[Bobly]

Adding a second pump will add redundancy, if you haven't already got something fixed on your rear exhaust stick a little 120mm thin rad on it and boom, same performance and redundancy :)

[quattro_]

if you run the pumps at full speed with just one block then yes it probably will increase temps.

i had 2 DDC-2's in my build a while ago and didnt see a lick of temperature improvement. the added heat dump of the pump really offset any performance improvement.

really, the only reason for 2 pumps is any loop with more than 2 blocks, and/or multiple blocks that carry HIGH restriction. the other benefit of 2 pumps is pump redundancy, and in the case of the DDC line of pumps, it might be worth your while.

i currently run one DDC-2 at around 7v and its perfectly fine for my x3110 and my 4870 FC block

thanks for your advice



Well if you have the pump why not try it to test this theory.

I think your temps won't increase because your rad can deal with the extra heat dump and you have a supreme.

true but the heat from the second pump is giong directly to the Supreme, all people using two pumps are putting them after the cpu block and befor the rad, and im not sure if i will benefit temp wise from adding the second pump IN THAT POSITION.


Adding a second pump will add redundancy, if you haven't already got something fixed on your rear exhaust stick a little 120mm thin rad on it and boom, same performance and redundancy :)

i have three loops cpu-PA120.3,gpu's-PA120.3 and chipset-PA120.2 i dont think i could find a place for an MCR120.

[brinox]

true but the heat from the second pump is giong directly to the Supreme, all people using two pumps are putting them after the cpu block and befor the rad, and im not sure if i will benefit temp wise from adding the second pump IN THAT POSITION.

the water will reach equilibrium in temperature, so there is no problem with having the pump directly before a block in this case. the only reason for pump placement is to maximize flowrate, and as secondary, this can benefit temperatures

[MomijiTMO]

Actually if you have your pumps in series before the supreme, you'll have the maximum amount of pressure. I'd do that.

[quattro_]

the water will reach equilibrium in temperature, so there is no problem with having the pump directly before a block in this case. the only reason for pump placement is to maximize flowrate, and as secondary, this can benefit temperatures

really i didnt know that, thanks for the info i think ill go for it.


Actually if you have your pumps in series before the supreme, you'll have the maximum amount of pressure. I'd do that.

your saying that its beter to put them in series than what im planing to do?

[quattro_]

i have 7/16 will that be ok, i have like 20ft

[Stewie007]

Just get an MCP655 and call it a day. There is no need for two pumps on one loop, it won't make a difference in your cooling capacity as we really aren't talking a lot of length in tubing. Running a higher flow pump is a less expensive answer.

[basserdan]

the reason i want to do this is:
-i have an extra pump and top :)
-if i put two pumps after each other its not going to increase flow as much as putting one before the Supreme and after it.


Same here. 1.I have an extra pump 2.redundancy 3.flow maintenance part way through the loop... I've got plenty of reasons to justify both pumps. As far as added heat, when I've felt my pump everywhere I can put my finger, after running for hours, it feels indistinguishable, temp wise, from the metal canister holding pencils on my desk. Surely, there is heat being made, I just don't think it's very much. Between this and the lack of vibration, it really is another way in which you cannot tell if this pump(D5) is even on. Anyway, my loop order to be(over Xmas break) :

res> pump> rad> gpu gpu> rad> pump> rad> cpu

[MaddHawk]

Gonna thread hijack. :D

I have noticed some people say series pumps = 2x pressure and parallel pumps = 2x flow. Does anyone have any math or lab proven statistics to back this up? I don't for sure and I'm no expert but, I seem to recall from some the fluid and fluid dynamics physics education I got in the navy that you had to quad the pumping power to get double the flow. Maybe I am recalling that wrong. :confused::confused::shrug:

I also seem to recall that pressure and flow go hand in hand since pressure produced is directly related to the pressure drops the pumps must overcome to move the water. It would seem to me that if you double the flow that the pressure would also double. Though, again, I could be wrong and pressure and flow don't share a direct linear relationship.

It also strikes me that parallel pumps would be the best way to go as series pumps is more for providing an initial pressure boost for a larger 2nd pump so as to prevent pump cavitation in the 2nd pump. Certianly this was only use we had for series pumps when I was in the Navy. Everything else was parallel.

Guess its time for me to brush up my fluid and hydrodamics now too.

[Chruschef]

The most efficient set up for your loop, according to what I remember from martin's testing.

XSPC Res/top-->MCP355-->MCP335/XSPCTop(2nd one)-->EK Supreme --> PA120.3 --> XSPC Res/Top

Running the pumps consecutively maximizes the ammount of pressure in the loop. Keep in mind your pumps are pushing ALL the water in your loop ALL the time. Putting a pump in the middle, as opposed to in series doesn't really matter that much. Martin's testing showed that the difference that you will see in temperatures, is a 1/3 of a degree at most. As long as the reservoir comes first, where you place the second pump doesn't actually matter, nor the order of your loop. The temperature of the water in your loop will also always come to equilibrium.

[NaeKuh]

Gonna thread hijack. :D

I have noticed some people say series pumps = 2x pressure and parallel pumps = 2x flow. Does anyone have any math or lab proven statistics to back this up? I don't for sure and I'm no expert but, I seem to recall from some the fluid and fluid dynamics physics education I got in the navy that you had to quad the pumping power to get double the flow. Maybe I am recalling that wrong. :confused::confused::shrug:

I also seem to recall that pressure and flow go hand in hand since pressure produced is directly related to the pressure drops the pumps must overcome to move the water. It would seem to me that if you double the flow that the pressure would also double. Though, again, I could be wrong and pressure and flow don't share a direct linear relationship.

It also strikes me that parallel pumps would be the best way to go as series pumps is more for providing an initial pressure boost for a larger 2nd pump so as to prevent pump cavitation in the 2nd pump. Certianly this was only use we had for series pumps when I was in the Navy. Everything else was parallel.

Guess its time for me to brush up my fluid and hydrodamics now too.

hehehehe....

b4 people spank you hard.... your partially correct..

pressure and flow do go hand to hand, but there inverse...

Pressure grows as you kill flow, and flow increases and you kill pressure. Think of a garden hose and you covering half of it with your thumb.

Your thumb is acting as an accelerator. This is the same concept which goes in accelerator blocks.

Now phsycis states for molecules to transfer from base to water, you need contact. Things like tubulance and aggitation inside the block increases the block performance, and pulls more heat off the cpu.

I laid down an analogy a while back ago... Low flow systems is like you pouring water on a hot plate. Injectors would be you sand blasting the hot plate..

Which do you prefer? (injectors systems however MUST and i cant say this with anymore emphasis becasue noobs ALWAYS NEVER LISTEN, MUST BE ON ITS OWN LOOP!

So a system which has uber flow, can not have uber pressure and vice versa.

What we do is we raise our bar one by adding another pump. The minimum pressure and miminum flow is therefore increased.

Another simple law in h2o cooling which involves closed loops is you wont get a temperature gradiate thoughout your loop of no higher then 2C. What this means is from inlet to outlet of your rad, it shouldnt vary by more then 2C.

So the myth on low flow system is absolute garbage and crap...

More flow yields lower deltas, because you got more passes though that rad in the same amount of time. Remember Equalibirum always a driving constant in a closed loop.

Okey, you may all wake up now from my boring lesson... :rofl:


The most efficient set up for your loop, according to what I remember from martin's testing.

XSPC Res/top-->MCP355-->MCP335/XSPCTop(2nd one)-->EK Supreme --> PA120.3 --> XSPC Res/Top
.

Ive asked skinnee to tripple test this result.
I ran across an old discovery that pump b4 block instead of rad before block may yield better cooling on injector style blocks..
Skinnee is in the middle of verifying this a third time.

[Chruschef]

Ive asked skinnee to tripple test this result.
I ran across an old discovery that pump b4 block instead of rad before block may yield better cooling on injector style blocks..
Skinnee is in the middle of verifying this a third time.

I'm confused.. do you mean that
res --> pump 1 --> pump 2 --> injector block --> rad --> res
is the best set up? or no?

[quattro_]

now im confused !!!
im goint to do this and see:
XSPC res/top -->mcp355 -->PA120.3 -->XSPC top -->mcp355 -->EK Supreme -->XSPC res/top

another question:
is it ok to run only the first pump untill the water fills the loop running threw the second pump while its off ? lets say an hour or two.

[MaddHawk]

hehehehe....

b4 people spank you hard.... your partially correct..

pressure and flow do go hand to hand, but there inverse...

Pressure grows as you kill flow, and flow increases and you kill pressure. Think of a garden hose and you covering half of it with your thumb.

Your thumb is acting as an accelerator. This is the same concept which goes in accelerator blocks.

Now phsycis states for molecules to transfer from base to water, you need contact. Things like tubulance and aggitation inside the block increases the block performance, and pulls more heat off the cpu.

I laid down an analogy a while back ago... Low flow systems is like you pouring water on a hot plate. Injectors would be you sand blasting the hot plate..

Which do you prefer? (injectors systems however MUST and i cant say this with anymore emphasis becasue noobs ALWAYS NEVER LISTEN, MUST BE ON ITS OWN LOOP!

So a system which has uber flow, can not have uber pressure and vice versa.

What we do is we raise our bar one by adding another pump. The minimum pressure and miminum flow is therefore increased.

Another simple law in h2o cooling which involves closed loops is you wont get a temperature gradiate thoughout your loop of no higher then 2C. What this means is from inlet to outlet of your rad, it shouldnt vary by more then 2C.

So the myth on low flow system is absolute garbage and crap...

More flow yields lower deltas, because you got more passes though that rad in the same amount of time. Remember Equalibirum always a driving constant in a closed loop.

Okey, you may all wake up now from my boring lesson... :rofl:

I need to brush up on my fluid dynamics. I recall what you mean how pressure and flow are inversly related from my own knowledge of how steam acts in a turbine. I also have seen this inverse relationship with pumps as total system restriction, thus pressure, rises.

I also recall from my time in the navy that when we increased flow in a closed system, pump discharge pressure and total system pressure drop also went up as a by-product of increasing the flow rate.

Having stated this much, it dawns on me that we are coming at the increase in pressure from two different sides. Now, once again, I could be wrong but, it strikes me that pressure and flow are linear for an increase in pumping power and inversly related for an increase in loop restriction.

For those who read the above, this is partially an argument with Naekuh and partialy me just sounding out my own logic to myself. :up:

To Naekuh, I thank you for at least reading my questions and logic and giving me an honest response. :cool:

Now I do have a new question. Why is it so urgent that a nozzeled block be in its own loop? Would it be possible to do multiple blocks with one or more nozzeled and just put them in parallel with say two pumps providing our motive force?

[jspace]

No, no, no, you've got it all wrong.
It goes computer --> vat of liquid nitrogen!
For REAL uber temps!:p:

[quattro_]

another question:
is it ok to run only the first pump untill the water fills the loop running threw the second pump while its off ? lets say an hour or two.

anyone?

[Serpentarius]

Gonna thread hijack. :D

I have noticed some people say series pumps = 2x pressure and parallel pumps = 2x flow. Does anyone have any math or lab proven statistics to back this up? I don't for sure and I'm no expert but, I seem to recall from some the fluid and fluid dynamics physics education I got in the navy that you had to quad the pumping power to get double the flow. Maybe I am recalling that wrong. :confused::confused::shrug:

I also seem to recall that pressure and flow go hand in hand since pressure produced is directly related to the pressure drops the pumps must overcome to move the water. It would seem to me that if you double the flow that the pressure would also double. Though, again, I could be wrong and pressure and flow don't share a direct linear relationship.

It also strikes me that parallel pumps would be the best way to go as series pumps is more for providing an initial pressure boost for a larger 2nd pump so as to prevent pump cavitation in the 2nd pump. Certianly this was only use we had for series pumps when I was in the Navy. Everything else was parallel.

Guess its time for me to brush up my fluid and hydrodamics now too.


http://www.bcae1.com/ check it out for better understanding

[MaddHawk]

http://www.bcae1.com/ check it out for better understanding

:confused:
Covers electronic basics and some more advanced stuff and how it applies to computers and car electronics. Does NOT cover fluid flow, fluid dynamics, pumping laws, pumping relationships, or any other type of fluid physics.

[quattro_]

Ive asked skinnee to tripple test this result.
I ran across an old discovery that pump b4 block instead of rad before block may yield better cooling on injector style blocks..
Skinnee is in the middle of verifying this a third time.

BUMP..
sorry but i need to know the result :)

[hellcamino]

now im confused !!!
im goint to do this and see:
XSPC res/top -->mcp355 -->PA120.3 -->XSPC top -->mcp355 -->EK Supreme -->XSPC res/top

another question:
is it ok to run only the first pump untill the water fills the loop running threw the second pump while its off ? lets say an hour or two.

That is perfectly fine and won't harm a thing, you will have a much easier time getting your loop bled like that.